Really... There wasn't much of a reason for planes to evolved. Not economic ones anyhow. The first aircraft was small, slow and dangerous. Pilots were killed often. The original plane the wright flyer wasn't developed for ANY economical reason. There wasn't really a market for it the Wrights just did it out of their own pockets because they feel like it.
The real push for better planes came when WWI started. People start finding that ahh planes do have a use in murdering our fellow humans. So of course we poured tons of money into it. The same happened in WWII when the German developed the first Jet fighter.
Now ok that's the story of hte airplane and it certainly doesn't really fit the way space flight developed. But anyhow you get my drift.
What is more interesting is the commercialization of the airliner business. Boeing was the name for quite a while wasn't it? Got the best planes and such. But they weren't very efficent. Until airbus came along. And that's the way it's going to be. The American will start off something then someone from another country will come along and develope something similar but better. Doesn't the sound like linux?
Anyhow what i want to say is that eventually market and techological force from outside the USA will push developement of cheaper space flight. With or without the American Congres doing anything.
The American Congress works on lobbying and money anyhow. How many times do we have to watch 60 minutes tell us about a bill not passed or action not taken because of big business before we realise it?
One of my friend would ove to be a hermit. If not for computers he'll dive off the ends of the earth and that's it.
Well actually what i want to say is why even ask? Concidering how the internet have developed you can work pretty much anywhere if you have the right job. Alan Cox live in Swansea Wales. Used to be quite a remote place and still is compaired to other bigger towns. Incidentally that hermitish friend of mine is starting at Swansea University this comming school year.
At anyrate I would suggest people concidering a job not concider what other people think of it as a geek city. Afterall lots of the same people means in some case napster over loaded lines and pubs that are just too full.
Man.. i read reread that.. am i turning into a hermit as well??
Why are you all getting your panties in a twist over this? It's nothing especially new nor it is about blocking off things. IF i want to stop my users from using napster or any other "file sharing" i can do that using current firewall/router technology.
First off that university really needs faster connections. I have a 1.5 mbps ADSL at home and i can normally have it going full once every few days. So the real problem is cheapo university with cheapo IT department.
Second of all traffic shaping has been known and done from the world go on the internet. I can do that right now. And sometimes wish i do with my sister using up bandwidth. So it's nothing to cry foul about.
First of all no suprise at windows being beaten. It's know to be bloated by most people here. However, what really annonys me is all the BeOS fans here automatically going into OS shark mode. It's not really that important guys. Also note that there wasn't alot of imformation given by the benchmarker. If any of you read sites like anandtech, Tom's or any of the mainstream gaming site you'll know what level of deatails goes into writing up their benchmarks. Getting annonyed at the "How we tested" bit is very common for me. Now on to the concerns of other people speaking here... For me what I think causes this large jump between BeOS and other OS here is SMP. Think about it. Although the game itself being tested wasn't SMP enabled the drivers and layers of BeOS are. So a certain level of performance increase can be expected especially when dealing with the crusher demo (which incidentally gave a very big lead to windows). This about this guys... SMP is not enabled in quake but smp is enabled in other parts of the OS now if the OS is smart and the game needs a lot of CPU what do you do? You Shove every thing to one cpu and let the game run on the other. For crusher there are alot of rockets exploding and particals flying these are not tests of the 3d card nor it's drivers it is a test of the CPU. This isn't just something i made up overnight read gaming sites it's very well documented. In this benchmark Linux is definatly running at a disadventage. First off not XF4, second no optimization (as in stoping un-needed proccesses) and thrid running off a stock install of corel and finially it wasn't runing off proper OpenGL it was running MESA which is good but how good?
Of course i do know linux isn't near the same level as windows with gaming and multimedia support. And I know BeOS is quite good but I have lived on this earth for quite a while and quatum leap of performance just don't appear ouf of the blue because someone programs better.
Why does person out there post and goes "Ha ha linux sucks" or some other flame bait? Why doens't anyone say "Whoa.. i got the security advisory and a patch is already ready". Personally I am only piss off at sendmail for sending off this big letter for no reason. Instead of using the normal channels for telling people they have to make a big noise and place thousands of servers at risk. For God's sakes.. people do sleep around here you know. We don't stay up all night hoping some new security problems need patching.
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2582 547,00.html Read this. I think i have this "slashapplet" running on my gnome bar.. so where's MS's "innovation"?
It's always down to the green stuff. That's what life today is about most of the time. I am interested to see most people thinks that the best way to get games is to teach the big companies. I don't totally agree here because simply Linux still works better as a server then anything else. For me the installation of a pure server striped down without extra hardware is very quick and simple. But with my own machine there was the wait for a Sblive! driver the wait for the Nvidia drivers. Then the download of the ALSA system and the compile. All very fun for me but must be hell for a newbie. What is really stopping the companies from making linux games is more then just user base and people expecting free lunch. It's just how hard it would be for them to develope for linux in a way that the game would work out of the box and without complain. Take a look at sound. What do you do? Do you support OSS? Or ALSA? Do you expect to use software mixing or can you let the drivers do the job? Video? DRI around the corner but GLX's here already. DRI would be fast but you can't really use it yet because drivers aren't done and GLX makes a game running at 60+ FPS in windows sputter along at 15... Then again you can do a brand new API for your own games. Most likely going to cost you tons as well. With windows it has become child's play for the managers. It's a choice of Direct3D or OpenGL and a very small choice of directsound as the only sound API. Let's not even go into the number of kernel patchs for different hardware and such. Let alone the rate at which new kernels with critical changes are released. Unless you make your game open sourced (great but people like ID expects to sell liences) or have a KAL (kernel abstraction layer) you don't get very far because people get pissed if they can't use the newest kernels. Finially down to some less critical points. Do you code for linux platform independently or do you code for the x86 market and maybe increase the performance? Of course those people running PPC and such would again complain. In the end all those problem causes a increase in cost for the developer. I know most of us don't mind booting more then one kernels to get games to work or compiling part of the game ourselves. But really developers don't want to play tech support for the whole range of linux configurations we can and do make. So let's get things sorted and lets support people like loki who are already doing most of the work getting games for linux.
It's a rack mounted sort of computer. You get these case which goes into the rack and they have this PCB inside with PCI and ISA slots and one or two slots for PC cards like those. Bascically you take these PC cards shove them into the PC card slots and then shove in the other stuff and off you go. The point of these things are to make it easier to get servers back online after a hardware failure. You don't have to unplug everything and then fiddle with the hardware. Just replace the part you want and get back to business.
For a unlimited time you can take advantage of your wonderious MS training in FUD and BSing to help us the chinese government convince ourselves that we are a good thing (TM).
Spread stories of American attrocities and Chinese greatness. Yes sir China went to the moon first. The American thing was just a movie.
Gee this is really the most terrible thing china has done. PErsonally I think this is peanuts compair to things you don't hear.
Eveyone is America is up is arms about that cuban boy but you never hear about those Hong Kong business men and woman who are jailed without trial in China often on non existance charges. And what's more the chinese authority isn't only breaking international laws they are breaking even their own laws. In truth having them do some sensoring on some sites is hardly going to give people scars are or kill.
Just tonight i saw a show about how one guy was charged by his business partner and basically kidnapped by the chinese police tied up and shove into a house where his business partner was allowed to beat him and pour boiling water on him.
What's really wrong with the chinese government isn't about the really high up leaders. It's about the common rabble that's lower down. With the central government you just have to be polite in the chinese way. As in don't come right out and say they are wrong. Sort of indicated privatly. But for those people in jail right now nothing will get them out unless someone with connections speaks to their "friend" about him.
Anyhow I am just ranting here. But this is a point i think alot of people overseas should be aware of. You never hear about this stuff on 60 mintues and such. But it's happening everyday.
They know it but wouldn't say it.
on
Free Solaris 8
·
· Score: 1
Sun knows why IBM and others are helping linux. Why else would it open up it's own OS? What's more they just gave another reason for IBM to put more resource into linux. I think IBM would rather die then have people install Sun software on it's systems.
So you are saying people are the environment and the internet companies are animals trying to surive in it? That's pretty slick.
But you know this gives me a feeling of a bad omen. What you are also saying is that people today are unwilling to adapte to the better technologies which allows more to be done. Where does the put the human race? Once uppon a time we became dominate on this world cause we adapted and adapted the world to our needs. Now we are refusing the very thing, technology, that made us and because most humans are lazy? umm.
Well looking as NT managed to come in the top sport for server hacked for more then 3 months now i would say that this person needs to rethink his own comments.
I think therefor I am. So i can patent myself and everything related to me. Bye bye spying quake3demo. Bye bye cookies. you'll have to pay me for information about myself!
Ok here's an interesting idea using some of the ideas posted here. Take the wheel on the shoes idea. But don't use the shoes as the sensor. Attach accelaration meters to the joints of the legs. So the computer can read out the movements of the legs. Sort of like a motion capture device. Acutally those camera and colored balls works just as well. Anyhow the idea is to let the person move as he or she likes while usinga computer to figure out how what they do effec the virtual world. Another idea that would cost loads and let them do everything is to use the large room idea. But make the room so it is like the virtual world so the person will see the virtual world via the VR headsets but at the same time being able to touch actual objects in the room and interact with them. Now that might sounds pointless but if you are in a combat sim you'll be able to run dive and crash into things as you like. While also being able to shoot virtual bullets at virtual enemies. This will of course require the system to track the person quite accurately so they don't jump from a high place thinking they'll make it to the other side but ending up falling and breaking their necks.
This is nothing new. Just as the NAZI and all sort of werid and deranged people have done before these people are after control and power. I can't understand why people fall in with this kind of cults or such but as a history and psychology have shown time and time again.... People are not much better then lemmings. We are in one simple word stupid.
You know what I think? Well i think that maybe meeting people on IRC or something like that is better then meeting people in RL. My idea is that you can be who you want to be. Which is in some ways who you really am. I have thought before that chatting on IRC brings out parts of me that isn't real. Parts of me that i didn't believe existed in real life. But now thinking again after putting 5 more years under me ( 18 finially) I think it is the reverse. With your RL peers your are after a while shoved into a sort of a mold. People expects you to act in a certain way and so you act in that certain way. Some times i get really pissed off that way. When I know I am not the same person i was but my friends keeps treading me like before. So maybe meeting people online allows us to "start over". So we act how we feel be who we like.
BE ALL YOU CAN BE! FOLLOW THESE RULES! -You should never show any interest in class ( some of my friends were said and qoute " These three have taken a vow to silence in my class!" by my physics teacher) -Use drug.. the harder the better -Drink till you drop at every party -Have no aims in life. -Go out to the beach for a party in a typhoon 8 in pouring rain and when the wind chill is something like 25 C with no change of cloths. Warm yourselves with some "drinks" -Must speak in slangs. -Never know anything about the world at large. (East Timor? Wot?) Those above art the rules pointed out by the GenX Guide to the Galaxy. For Further information see: -Giving in to peer pressure in 10 easy steps -How to "beep" up your life -Guide to bad taste in music
This isn't anything new. Hong Kong Telecom ( Now Cable and wireless ) have been charging us $1.95 HKD per hour from the beginning. It not much but it does add up to a very large bill. I am personally aganist a internet tax.. but hey we have to pay PNET over here you could well do the same.
This is very interesting. Some people here feels that we should make a long term plan and follow that. Others feel what we are doing currently is perfectly fine. I don't agree with neither. On one hand the long term plan helps drive support from big business. This was suggested by someone here and I think he/she is right. However this limits linux in a way it has never been before. What we do right now is to brain storm up ideas and then make them. This is good in it's own way. Right now microsoft doesn't have an idea what we are going to do next year. If they don't how can they plan to react? Also with our current developmental methods we follow the "surivial of the fittest" which as some of us less religious ones here "knows" created the vast numbers of different plants and animals. Heck it created us. With this we can be sure only the code which works gets released. What I think is the best developmental structure for us is to have a bit of both. A road map of one year in my mind is the perfect solution. We never know what'll happen with the hardware world anyhow and something big could come along at anytime. One year road maps shouldn't hinder us in adding features and that's should be about the time a company needs to port most current apps. For new apps we all knows most of them are writen from the ground up by our own hackers so we need not worry about those. As for presenting a united traning and PR front we don't really really need that. If we maintain compatiblity between distros and firmly believe in the idea of Open Source we are united already. If everyone listened to what the commecial world says we wouldn't be here.
Slashdot Mirror
I believe the loki already has quite a few good linux games. Wouldit be that much harder to port it over to a console running linux?
Really... There wasn't much of a reason for planes to evolved. Not economic ones anyhow. The first aircraft was small, slow and dangerous. Pilots were killed often. The original plane the wright flyer wasn't developed for ANY economical reason. There wasn't really a market for it the Wrights just did it out of their own pockets because they feel like it.
The real push for better planes came when WWI started. People start finding that ahh planes do have a use in murdering our fellow humans. So of course we poured tons of money into it. The same happened in WWII when the German developed the first Jet fighter.
Now ok that's the story of hte airplane and it certainly doesn't really fit the way space flight developed. But anyhow you get my drift.
What is more interesting is the commercialization of the airliner business. Boeing was the name for quite a while wasn't it? Got the best planes and such. But they weren't very efficent. Until airbus came along.
And that's the way it's going to be. The American will start off something then someone from another country will come along and develope something similar but better. Doesn't the sound like linux?
Anyhow what i want to say is that eventually market and techological force from outside the USA will push developement of cheaper space flight. With or without the American Congres doing anything.
The American Congress works on lobbying and money anyhow. How many times do we have to watch 60 minutes tell us about a bill not passed or action not taken because of big business before we realise it?
One of my friend would ove to be a hermit. If not for computers he'll dive off the ends of the earth and that's it.
.. am i turning into a hermit as well??
Well actually what i want to say is why even ask? Concidering how the internet have developed you can work pretty much anywhere if you have the right job. Alan Cox live in Swansea Wales. Used to be quite a remote place and still is compaired to other bigger towns. Incidentally that hermitish friend of mine is starting at Swansea University this comming school year.
At anyrate I would suggest people concidering a job not concider what other people think of it as a geek city. Afterall lots of the same people means in some case napster over loaded lines and pubs that are just too full.
Man.. i read reread that
Why are you all getting your panties in a twist over this? It's nothing especially new nor it is about blocking off things. IF i want to stop my users from using napster or any other "file sharing" i can do that using current firewall/router technology.
First off that university really needs faster connections. I have a 1.5 mbps ADSL at home and i can normally have it going full once every few days. So the real problem is cheapo university with cheapo IT department.
Second of all traffic shaping has been known and done from the world go on the internet. I can do that right now. And sometimes wish i do with my sister using up bandwidth. So it's nothing to cry foul about.
Read up man.
I read most of the exchange between Han Reiser and the other kernel people. Personally I think the problem is mainly with him. Not totally.
His way of writing often is very well... excited. And making comments about other people is certainly part of quite a few posting.
Now this is my own opinions so you don't have to agree with it. But really if someone can't even talk nicely it doesn't help anyone to help him.
Truly. Lets kick the crappy RDRAM and legacy CPU and shit all in one go. Afterall linux runs on PowerPCs..
First of all no suprise at windows being beaten. It's know to be bloated by most people here. However, what really annonys me is all the BeOS fans here automatically going into OS shark mode. It's not really that important guys. Also note that there wasn't alot of imformation given by the benchmarker. If any of you read sites like anandtech, Tom's or any of the mainstream gaming site you'll know what level of deatails goes into writing up their benchmarks. Getting annonyed at the "How we tested" bit is very common for me.
Now on to the concerns of other people speaking here... For me what I think causes this large jump between BeOS and other OS here is SMP. Think about it. Although the game itself being tested wasn't SMP enabled the drivers and layers of BeOS are. So a certain level of performance increase can be expected especially when dealing with the crusher demo (which incidentally gave a very big lead to windows). This about this guys... SMP is not enabled in quake but smp is enabled in other parts of the OS now if the OS is smart and the game needs a lot of CPU what do you do? You Shove every thing to one cpu and let the game run on the other. For crusher there are alot of rockets exploding and particals flying these are not tests of the 3d card nor it's drivers it is a test of the CPU. This isn't just something i made up overnight read gaming sites it's very well documented. In this benchmark Linux is definatly running at a disadventage. First off not XF4, second no optimization (as in stoping un-needed proccesses) and thrid running off a stock install of corel and finially it wasn't runing off proper OpenGL it was running MESA which is good but how good?
Of course i do know linux isn't near the same level as windows with gaming and multimedia support. And I know BeOS is quite good but I have lived on this earth for quite a while and quatum leap of performance just don't appear ouf of the blue because someone programs better.
Why does person out there post and goes "Ha ha linux sucks" or some other flame bait? Why doens't anyone say "Whoa.. i got the security advisory and a patch is already ready". Personally I am only piss off at sendmail for sending off this big letter for no reason. Instead of using the normal channels for telling people they have to make a big noise and place thousands of servers at risk. For God's sakes.. people do sleep around here you know. We don't stay up all night hoping some new security problems need patching.
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2582 547,00.html Read this. I think i have this "slashapplet" running on my gnome bar.. so where's MS's "innovation"?
It's always down to the green stuff. That's what life today is about most of the time. I am interested to see most people thinks that the best way to get games is to teach the big companies. I don't totally agree here because simply Linux still works better as a server then anything else. For me the installation of a pure server striped down without extra hardware is very quick and simple. But with my own machine there was the wait for a Sblive! driver the wait for the Nvidia drivers. Then the download of the ALSA system and the compile. All very fun for me but must be hell for a newbie. What is really stopping the companies from making linux games is more then just user base and people expecting free lunch. It's just how hard it would be for them to develope for linux in a way that the game would work out of the box and without complain. Take a look at sound. What do you do? Do you support OSS? Or ALSA? Do you expect to use software mixing or can you let the drivers do the job? Video? DRI around the corner but GLX's here already. DRI would be fast but you can't really use it yet because drivers aren't done and GLX makes a game running at 60+ FPS in windows sputter along at 15... Then again you can do a brand new API for your own games. Most likely going to cost you tons as well. With windows it has become child's play for the managers. It's a choice of Direct3D or OpenGL and a very small choice of directsound as the only sound API. Let's not even go into the number of kernel patchs for different hardware and such. Let alone the rate at which new kernels with critical changes are released. Unless you make your game open sourced (great but people like ID expects to sell liences) or have a KAL (kernel abstraction layer) you don't get very far because people get pissed if they can't use the newest kernels. Finially down to some less critical points. Do you code for linux platform independently or do you code for the x86 market and maybe increase the performance? Of course those people running PPC and such would again complain. In the end all those problem causes a increase in cost for the developer. I know most of us don't mind booting more then one kernels to get games to work or compiling part of the game ourselves. But really developers don't want to play tech support for the whole range of linux configurations we can and do make. So let's get things sorted and lets support people like loki who are already doing most of the work getting games for linux.
It's a rack mounted sort of computer. You get these case which goes into the rack and they have this PCB inside with PCI and ISA slots and one or two slots for PC cards like those. Bascically you take these PC cards shove them into the PC card slots and then shove in the other stuff and off you go. The point of these things are to make it easier to get servers back online after a hardware failure. You don't have to unplug everything and then fiddle with the hardware. Just replace the part you want and get back to business.
Yes sir!!!!!! Step right up microserfs!
For a unlimited time you can take advantage of your wonderious MS training in FUD and BSing to help us the chinese government convince ourselves that we are a good thing (TM).
Spread stories of American attrocities and Chinese greatness. Yes sir China went to the moon first. The American thing was just a movie.
Gee this is really the most terrible thing china has done. PErsonally I think this is peanuts compair to things you don't hear.
Eveyone is America is up is arms about that cuban boy but you never hear about those Hong Kong business men and woman who are jailed without trial in China often on non existance charges. And what's more the chinese authority isn't only breaking international laws they are breaking even their own laws. In truth having them do some sensoring on some sites is hardly going to give people scars are or kill.
Just tonight i saw a show about how one guy was charged by his business partner and basically kidnapped by the chinese police tied up and shove into a house where his business partner was allowed to beat him and pour boiling water on him.
What's really wrong with the chinese government isn't about the really high up leaders. It's about the common rabble that's lower down. With the central government you just have to be polite in the chinese way. As in don't come right out and say they are wrong. Sort of indicated privatly. But for those people in jail right now nothing will get them out unless someone with connections speaks to their "friend" about him.
Anyhow I am just ranting here. But this is a point i think alot of people overseas should be aware of. You never hear about this stuff on 60 mintues and such. But it's happening everyday.
Sun knows why IBM and others are helping linux. Why else would it open up it's own OS? What's more they just gave another reason for IBM to put more resource into linux. I think IBM would rather die then have people install Sun software on it's systems.
So you are saying people are the environment and the internet companies are animals trying to surive in it? That's pretty slick.
But you know this gives me a feeling of a bad omen. What you are also saying is that people today are unwilling to adapte to the better technologies which allows more to be done. Where does the put the human race? Once uppon a time we became dominate on this world cause we adapted and adapted the world to our needs. Now we are refusing the very thing, technology, that made us and because most humans are lazy? umm.
Well looking as NT managed to come in the top sport for server hacked for more then 3 months now i would say that this person needs to rethink his own comments.
I think therefor I am. So i can patent myself and everything related to me. Bye bye spying quake3demo. Bye bye cookies. you'll have to pay me for information about myself!
I am all for beating THE patenters.
Ok here's an interesting idea using some of the ideas posted here. Take the wheel on the shoes idea. But don't use the shoes as the sensor. Attach accelaration meters to the joints of the legs. So the computer can read out the movements of the legs. Sort of like a motion capture device. Acutally those camera and colored balls works just as well. Anyhow the idea is to let the person move as he or she likes while usinga computer to figure out how what they do effec the virtual world. Another idea that would cost loads and let them do everything is to use the large room idea. But make the room so it is like the virtual world so the person will see the virtual world via the VR headsets but at the same time being able to touch actual objects in the room and interact with them. Now that might sounds pointless but if you are in a combat sim you'll be able to run dive and crash into things as you like. While also being able to shoot virtual bullets at virtual enemies. This will of course require the system to track the person quite accurately so they don't jump from a high place thinking they'll make it to the other side but ending up falling and breaking their necks.
This is nothing new. Just as the NAZI and all sort of werid and deranged people have done before these people are after control and power. I can't understand why people fall in with this kind of cults or such but as a history and psychology have shown time and time again.... People are not much better then lemmings. We are in one simple word stupid.
You know what I think? Well i think that maybe meeting people on IRC or something like that is better then meeting people in RL. My idea is that you can be who you want to be. Which is in some ways who you really am. I have thought before that chatting on IRC brings out parts of me that isn't real. Parts of me that i didn't believe existed in real life. But now thinking again after putting 5 more years under me ( 18 finially) I think it is the reverse. With your RL peers your are after a while shoved into a sort of a mold. People expects you to act in a certain way and so you act in that certain way. Some times i get really pissed off that way. When I know I am not the same person i was but my friends keeps treading me like before. So maybe meeting people online allows us to "start over". So we act how we feel be who we like.
BE ALL YOU CAN BE! FOLLOW THESE RULES! -You should never show any interest in class ( some of my friends were said and qoute " These three have taken a vow to silence in my class!" by my physics teacher) -Use drug.. the harder the better -Drink till you drop at every party -Have no aims in life. -Go out to the beach for a party in a typhoon 8 in pouring rain and when the wind chill is something like 25 C with no change of cloths. Warm yourselves with some "drinks" -Must speak in slangs. -Never know anything about the world at large. (East Timor? Wot?) Those above art the rules pointed out by the GenX Guide to the Galaxy. For Further information see: -Giving in to peer pressure in 10 easy steps -How to "beep" up your life -Guide to bad taste in music
This isn't anything new. Hong Kong Telecom ( Now Cable and wireless ) have been charging us $1.95 HKD per hour from the beginning. It not much but it does add up to a very large bill. I am personally aganist a internet tax.. but hey we have to pay PNET over here you could well do the same.
Shakespear in love?
This is very interesting. Some people here feels that we should make a long term plan and follow that. Others feel what we are doing currently is perfectly fine. I don't agree with neither. On one hand the long term plan helps drive support from big business. This was suggested by someone here and I think he/she is right. However this limits linux in a way it has never been before. What we do right now is to brain storm up ideas and then make them. This is good in it's own way. Right now microsoft doesn't have an idea what we are going to do next year. If they don't how can they plan to react? Also with our current developmental methods we follow the "surivial of the fittest" which as some of us less religious ones here "knows" created the vast numbers of different plants and animals. Heck it created us. With this we can be sure only the code which works gets released. What I think is the best developmental structure for us is to have a bit of both. A road map of one year in my mind is the perfect solution. We never know what'll happen with the hardware world anyhow and something big could come along at anytime. One year road maps shouldn't hinder us in adding features and that's should be about the time a company needs to port most current apps. For new apps we all knows most of them are writen from the ground up by our own hackers so we need not worry about those. As for presenting a united traning and PR front we don't really really need that. If we maintain compatiblity between distros and firmly believe in the idea of Open Source we are united already. If everyone listened to what the commecial world says we wouldn't be here.