Well if you unzip ODF it's ascii (well, UTF-8). So then all you need is an uncompressed source archive of the unzip program (and documentation of the ZIP file format for re-implementation in a newer computer language than C). ZIP file format is cited in the ODF specification but IMHO it should be described on paper in a well-archived journal:-)
Have you never tried to unzip a.odt file? (tip: make a subdirectory for it first). It's nice for.odp presentations, because all the images are in a seperate subdirectory. You'd need xsltproc and a small xsl stylesheet to get rid of the forest of tags though.
Thank you. I'll help you pray that someone, hopefully even in a position of influence at the National Archives, actually ever reads this.
You exaggerated on the OOXML specification size though; surely you don't need a forklift to carry a 5219 page document? Or just download the 34 Mb thing (part 4 that is).
(replying to myself here) I'm sorry, what I said would have been nonsense with regard to GPL code, but I think it's still valid with regard to LGPL code, which is the case here.
IANAL, and I think that you are correct that they are OK if they "
only release the source code to registered users who could prove they received a copy legally from them.
".
However, it is also quite explicit in the GPL that all those registered users then have the right to give the GPL-ed parts of the source code to anyone else. So why go to the hassle of constraining the release like that? If even one of your customers (Y) decides to carefully cut out the GPL-ed bits and put those on her l33t website, you may as well keep that "goodwill value" for yourself and publish it yourself, officially. IMHO that would also maximise the (potential) benefit that somebody notices your modifications and decides to incorporate them back into your own upstream source (the W project), keeping them (hopefully) maintained.
Legally speaking, suppose now that you were the upstream GPL contributor W instead; who would you rather accept patches from: a company X that uses your software and puts their modifications of your GPL code on their official website, or somebody random (Y) who claims to have legally obtained the version of your GPL code that was modified by X, but X really doesn't mind, trust her? Even if both cases have legally the same end-result (the X-modified GPL code rejoining its mother project), the first case is very clear-cut but the second could maybe theoretically lead to some explaining to do in court, which nobody (sane) wants.
If I decide that my new profession and business model is to sell my feces for $10 a lump, I don't suddenly have a right to earn a living from them. I can just hope and try.
Piero Manzoni, is that you? Why the sudden drop in price?
IIRC putting it visibly and gratis for download on your public website is also OK: linksys and tivo
At least IIRC this is a new explicit clause in GPLv3 to make it easier for "box-sellers" such as Linksys and TiVO to provide the required source. IMHO it would have been just as easy and not extremely expensive to put just an extra, source CD in the box (I don't own either so I don't know if they actually do this anyway).
In the *DRAFT* GPLv3 version it says at 6.3b:
b) Convey the object code in, or embodied in, a physical product (including a physical distribution medium), accompanied by a written offer, valid for at least three years and valid for as long as you offer spare parts or customer support for that product model, either (1) to give anyone who possesses the object code a copy of the Corresponding Source for all the software in the product that is covered by this License, on a durable physical medium customarily used for software interchange, for a price no more than your reasonable cost of physically performing this conveying of source, or (2) to provide access to copy the Corresponding Source from a network server at no charge.
so option (2) is OK because they put the source for free on their public website for everyone to download. (There's nothing in the GPLv3 about the slashdotting effect though so don't all go there to check it out! That tivo site was already slow!)
Hating someone is not a crime, therefore, spreading hateful messages isn't either.
I'm sorry but I disagree, there are exceptional cases; I believe one was
"What are you waiting for? The tombs are empty. Take up your machetes and hack your enemies to pieces"
in the case of the Rwandan genocide that the owners of one particular radio station, Radio Mille Collines, played a significant and important role in hetting up the people to violence.
Apparently state radio was boring and RTLM had good music. Then, they used the radio station as a vehicle to "... broadcast messages designed to achieve interethnic hatred and encourage the population to kill, commits acts of violence and persecutions against Tutsi population and others on political grounds."
In fact the UN tribunal sentenced them to a life sentence for this: RNW article about RTLM (case is under appeal at the moment: "trauma and drug use explained the extremist conduct of the RTLM journalists" yeah right:-/).
D'oh.. totally forgot.. what was the reason given by the three opposing members of the senate judiciary committee to vote against those subpoenas? Why was it not a unanimous 16-0 vote, I mean.
Let's hope "terrorism" and "drugs" surrender soon, then, so you in the USA can resume normal life instead of a situation of martial law.
I'm exaggerating a bit of course -- I didn't see anything on the TV news that you have a curfew for example.
From wikipedia:
Article 1, Section 9 of the U.S. Constitution states, "The privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion; the public Safety may require it."
If you're the original poster, I thought you were trying to be funny, too; I was going to mod it funny when I noticed (A) it was already +5 and (B) I didn't have any modpoints anymore.
Maybe some of the people who thought it was meant serious are from the USA? It's actually interesting that there seems to be such a wide spread of interpretation here:-)
I guess what I mean is: if you thought THAT was serious, what kind of society do you inhabit??
Sorry, I get it now: the "great firewall of Venezuela", is that what you mean? Do you mean rigging of TCP/IP at the kernel level or filtering in userspace? Both cases I guess the answer would be to re-install a clean kernel and iptables and remove the "out-of-Venezuela" filter. Not trivial but it only has to be done once, then people can e-mail their workaround to people they trust and surf to RCTV International again;-). I hear they mostly have soaps, anyway..
I think he/she's referring to why it was severely punishable to own a Real Radio (TM) instead of a Volksempfaenger in the Netherlands during the '40-'45 occupation (http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Oranje, in dutch). So it was more "intellectual nazi stuff" than "intellectual commie stuff" really;-)
I think pp means that with a "Chavez liberty Linux" computer, it may become illegal to run "imperialist capitalist swine" MS Minesweeper etc.
I think this is a bit far fetched, personally. Still, it's better to guard the freedom of the Venezolans and make sure that Wine can run on those computers (and can run MS Minesweeper, MS Word etc.) so they can still sample all the Microsoft goodness and compare them to the (default) Linux installed programs.
from "Escape from Freedom" (1941) "Greed is a bottomless pit which exhausts the person in an endless effort to satisfy the need without ever reaching satisfaction."
Pity I can't find any quotes from his "Haben oder Sein"; I suspect it may even be relevant to this discussion although I'm probably off-topic again (sorry).
probably something like Choson Minjujuui Inmin Konghwaguk, south korea = Daehan Min-guk (note: I can't speak hangugeo and can't read hangul (although it looks interesting to learn)).
If the voting technician claims that the poll station must go out of action because the vote frobnigator has run out of its supply of internet tubes, how many voters and/or poll station supervisors and/or party-political auditors are going to question their authority?
That struck me as insane about the U.S.A elections as well; you're voting for the parties that are going to govern you for the next 4 years, but you won't accept methods of vote counting that don't give instantaneous satisfaction. Why is it not good enough to read about who won in the papers next day? Or, if you really want, stay up late into the night to wait for when all votes are counted?
You're still going to have that government for the next 1461 days, you know. Better be careful about who you vote for and how well you supervise the counting process..
I was looking at molecular models on our workstation at the lab, from home, over a modem line in the nineties. Nobody ever thought of giving me my own workstation and $25000 worth of MM software (*sniff*) or making me pay for one (luckily..). Instead I got by on a i386 (a real one) with 4 Mb memory and a 14 inch color screen. It was dead slow, but doable. Biggest problem was that my screen at home didn't have 32-bit color depth but 8-bit.
If those students have to acquire their own copy of such heavyweight modelling software instead of just using it at the lab (from wherever the students themselves are located at that moment) then I think that university shows some serious neglect of 1987's state of the art of utilizing windowing systems for end-users in a network-transparent way.
Students who don't know Linux exists and can be used as an X terminal could be excused in, say, 1994, but that's hardly an excuse anymore. And sure, it puts a much higher load on the internet's tubes, but those have improved in the meantime as well, and clever people thought about compressing the protocol. And you can easily tunnel X over ssh.
I mean COME ON, if a problem is that expensive, nobody tried to find a solution? wtf?.
</rant>
Slashdot Mirror
In which category do you think the "this is what the security of the entire network depends on" code would fall?
Well if you unzip ODF it's ascii (well, UTF-8). So then all you need is an uncompressed source archive of the unzip program (and documentation of the ZIP file format for re-implementation in a newer computer language than C). ZIP file format is cited in the ODF specification but IMHO it should be described on paper in a well-archived journal :-)
Have you never tried to unzip a .odt file? (tip: make a subdirectory for it first). It's nice for .odp presentations, because all the images are in a seperate subdirectory. You'd need xsltproc and a small xsl stylesheet to get rid of the forest of tags though.
You exaggerated on the OOXML specification size though; surely you don't need a forklift to carry a 5219 page document? Or just download the 34 Mb thing (part 4 that is).
(replying to myself here) I'm sorry, what I said would have been nonsense with regard to GPL code, but I think it's still valid with regard to LGPL code, which is the case here.
However, it is also quite explicit in the GPL that all those registered users then have the right to give the GPL-ed parts of the source code to anyone else. So why go to the hassle of constraining the release like that? If even one of your customers (Y) decides to carefully cut out the GPL-ed bits and put those on her l33t website, you may as well keep that "goodwill value" for yourself and publish it yourself, officially. IMHO that would also maximise the (potential) benefit that somebody notices your modifications and decides to incorporate them back into your own upstream source (the W project), keeping them (hopefully) maintained.
Legally speaking, suppose now that you were the upstream GPL contributor W instead; who would you rather accept patches from: a company X that uses your software and puts their modifications of your GPL code on their official website, or somebody random (Y) who claims to have legally obtained the version of your GPL code that was modified by X, but X really doesn't mind, trust her? Even if both cases have legally the same end-result (the X-modified GPL code rejoining its mother project), the first case is very clear-cut but the second could maybe theoretically lead to some explaining to do in court, which nobody (sane) wants.
Or am I misunderstanding something here?
(hey, I have to... because it's commandment nr. 8 on the draft) ;-)
Nonono, "The Cool War" was that SF book by Frederik Pohl which seems to become more realistic year by year. In fact, it's even on-topic!
At least IIRC this is a new explicit clause in GPLv3 to make it easier for "box-sellers" such as Linksys and TiVO to provide the required source. IMHO it would have been just as easy and not extremely expensive to put just an extra, source CD in the box (I don't own either so I don't know if they actually do this anyway).
In the *DRAFT* GPLv3 version it says at 6.3b:
so option (2) is OK because they put the source for free on their public website for everyone to download. (There's nothing in the GPLv3 about the slashdotting effect though so don't all go there to check it out! That tivo site was already slow!)Disclaimer: IANAL, and the ink of that piece of the GPLv3 I quoted isn't yet dry I believe.
Apparently state radio was boring and RTLM had good music. Then, they used the radio station as a vehicle to "... broadcast messages designed to achieve interethnic hatred and encourage the population to kill, commits acts of violence and persecutions against Tutsi population and others on political grounds."
In fact the UN tribunal sentenced them to a life sentence for this: RNW article about RTLM (case is under appeal at the moment: "trauma and drug use explained the extremist conduct of the RTLM journalists" yeah right :-/).
D'oh.. totally forgot.. what was the reason given by the three opposing members of the senate judiciary committee to vote against those subpoenas? Why was it not a unanimous 16-0 vote, I mean.
I'm exaggerating a bit of course -- I didn't see anything on the TV news that you have a curfew for example.
From wikipedia:
P.S. Oceania Rulez!!!!1!1
Maybe some of the people who thought it was meant serious are from the USA? It's actually interesting that there seems to be such a wide spread of interpretation here :-)
I guess what I mean is: if you thought THAT was serious, what kind of society do you inhabit??
Protection from litigation does not exist. So that takes care of the "F" of the FUD :-)
Please enlighten us. I only know the CBM-64's 6502. And that was a 6510.
Because... well.. just follow the logic of the film, mmkay?
Philip K. Dick, is that you? ;-)
Sorry, I get it now: the "great firewall of Venezuela", is that what you mean? Do you mean rigging of TCP/IP at the kernel level or filtering in userspace? Both cases I guess the answer would be to re-install a clean kernel and iptables and remove the "out-of-Venezuela" filter. Not trivial but it only has to be done once, then people can e-mail their workaround to people they trust and surf to RCTV International again ;-). I hear they mostly have soaps, anyway..
I think pp means that with a "Chavez liberty Linux" computer, it may become illegal to run "imperialist capitalist swine" MS Minesweeper etc. I think this is a bit far fetched, personally. Still, it's better to guard the freedom of the Venezolans and make sure that Wine can run on those computers (and can run MS Minesweeper, MS Word etc.) so they can still sample all the Microsoft goodness and compare them to the (default) Linux installed programs.
We sure live in interesting times.. are they out of bankruptcy yet?
from "Escape from Freedom" (1941) "Greed is a bottomless pit which exhausts the person in an endless effort to satisfy the need without ever reaching satisfaction."
Pity I can't find any quotes from his "Haben oder Sein"; I suspect it may even be relevant to this discussion although I'm probably off-topic again (sorry).
probably something like Choson Minjujuui Inmin Konghwaguk, south korea = Daehan Min-guk (note: I can't speak hangugeo and can't read hangul (although it looks interesting to learn)).
If the voting technician claims that the poll station must go out of action because the vote frobnigator has run out of its supply of internet tubes, how many voters and/or poll station supervisors and/or party-political auditors are going to question their authority?
You're still going to have that government for the next 1461 days, you know. Better be careful about who you vote for and how well you supervise the counting process..
I was looking at molecular models on our workstation at the lab, from home, over a modem line in the nineties. Nobody ever thought of giving me my own workstation and $25000 worth of MM software (*sniff*) or making me pay for one (luckily..). Instead I got by on a i386 (a real one) with 4 Mb memory and a 14 inch color screen. It was dead slow, but doable. Biggest problem was that my screen at home didn't have 32-bit color depth but 8-bit.
If those students have to acquire their own copy of such heavyweight modelling software instead of just using it at the lab (from wherever the students themselves are located at that moment) then I think that university shows some serious neglect of 1987's state of the art of utilizing windowing systems for end-users in a network-transparent way.
Students who don't know Linux exists and can be used as an X terminal could be excused in, say, 1994, but that's hardly an excuse anymore. And sure, it puts a much higher load on the internet's tubes, but those have improved in the meantime as well, and clever people thought about compressing the protocol. And you can easily tunnel X over ssh.
I mean COME ON, if a problem is that expensive, nobody tried to find a solution? wtf?. </rant>