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Venezula Producing Its Own Linux PCs
christian.einfeldt writes "The Venezuelan Government announced the roll-out of four different models of Linux-powered consumer computers, three desktop models and one notebook. Branded 'Bolivarian Computers,' they will be will be produced by a joint venture of the Venezuelan Ministry of Light Industry and Commerce and a Chinese company named Lang Chao. The goal of the project is to jump-start a domestic IT industry and become an IT exporter to the rest of Latin America. At the ceremony introducing the program, Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez claimed that the Bolivarian Computers cost 40% less than other commercially available models and come with a 3-year warranty."
All Bolivarian computers come fully equipped with a wide selection of inflammatory anti-Bush screensavers
But seriously, sometimes govenment direction can result in good stuff. Just like Brazil and energy selfsuficiancy. They say a problem, no oil, and the govenment of the day said OK, we will go ethynol. Ans now they do not have a relience onf foriegn oil.
Undetectable Steganography? Yep, there's an app fo
that Linux is a tool for communists and Godless atheists! [goes hiding under a rock]
Enemies? Let's see what happens if US or any European businesses leave China, they can kneel. They better call us friends.
we have to recognize that *THIS* particular action is good.
Too bad he's choosing Free Software to promote his government where personal freedom is gone.
This is becaus the United States would rather deal with and give their oil dollars to middle east regimes that support terrorists than to an American socialist state. You see terrorisum is not the big evil, Socalisum is.
Undetectable Steganography? Yep, there's an app fo
The only problem is, they also come with Hugo Chavez spyware preinstalled. But he tells us, that's all right.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
While my personal feelings regarding Mr Chavez are mixed, this is a great idea. He's attempting to grow an industry within his country and using open-source software to do it. It's always good to see Linux moving beyond the nerds into the hands of (for lack of a better term) common people.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not entirely sure about the universe - Einstein
U.S. President John F. Kennedy at an August 29, 1962 news conference:
"The Monroe Doctrine means what it has meant since President Monroe and John Quincy Adams enunciated it, and that is that we would oppose a foreign power extending its power to the Western Hemisphere, and that is why we oppose what is happening in Cuba today. That is why we have cut off our trade. That is why we worked in the Organization of American States and in other ways to isolate the Communist menace in Cuba. That is why we will continue to give a good deal of our effort and attention to it.
You are delusional, I'm afraid. These "US and European businesses" you refer to do not exist -- multinational corporations have no national allegiances, they do what is best for their quarterly profit.
Besides which, how is a Chinese corporation operating in Venezuela the same as the Chinese government meddling in the oil supply? Furthermore, since when did the Monroe Doctrine apply to Asian nations? And third, where the hell do Americans get off claiming Venezuelan oil for themselves?
$690 is nowhere near 60% of $930. It's closer to 75%.
Of course, 25% wouldn't sound impressive to the masses.
it will be till somebody pokes around the prepackage and finds it able to only load approved state software, calls home, etc. It is good to see a government spreading technology at an affordable price and not entirely gimping them. Even better that they are encouraging a good OS. The site with TFA is also a bit too, um, "orientated" to support whatever Chavez's Gov't spits out. Take a look at the article
"Venezuela, RCTV, And Media Freedom: Just The Facts, Please".
import system.cool.Sig;
I am curious, would the fanboys like you also praise satan for adopting FOSS/linux to control the fuel delivery and batch-processing of the new arrivals?
Obama likes poor people so much, he wants to make more of them.
We all already new linux users are a bunch of commies
Ahh, but not all commies are yet Linux users. There is still an untapped market of commies that use Windows (Gasp! How can anyone read the "Criticism of Gotha and Erfurt Program" and do that is beyond me!) or OSX - these more popular in the agit-prop subculture of commies, they design posters calling for general strikes in it because they want "colour calibration". Or so they say, still smells like burgeoise behaviour, bloody revisionists.
Communux
Table-ized A.I.
Ah, forget about making any decent use of the pictured webcam in Linux. Drivers, video4linux, skype, nothing works. This is a good excuse to preload lots of pirated copies of Windows while not paying Microsoft for OEM Windows, though.
As much as I hate M$... and I really hate M$ a lot... I am a U.S. Citizen and Microsoft is a North American company bringing money into the U.S. from other countries. I realize that Mexico is a small percentage of the U.S. exports, but still, when I worked at HP we courted to them because they were a good export base (about 4% of our sales were in Mexico). Lets face it, we need exports to stay competitive.
So I am torn on this topic. I love Linux and free open source software and I want M$ to die a fast death, yet I want U.S. exports to remain high. I realize that U.S. made laptops are really made in Asia (Compal, Quantus, etc.), but there is still a nice cut made for our economy (such as my salary).
I have to say that when the whole of this is considered, it is a net negative for the U.S. That is just my $0.02.
Venezuela is spelled Venezula!
Somehow, I don't think these computers will go on to become a commercial success after the dictator dies.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Here: Chavez Hatred Explained to Americans.
___
Cogito cogito, ergo cogito sum.
Cutting down all Brazil's rainforest to plant corn for ethanol is hardly a smart move. All in all, Brazil has shown itself to be a stupid greedy country that is selling out their future for pennies on the dollar. Often times it is wiser to use your replaceable resources to purchase energy vs. sell off what cannot be replaced at any cost.
For more information on the context of whats going on in Venezula, check out the docco Chavez - Inside the Coup. It shows how the oil corporates attempting a coup manipulated the public. This is the people that lost their broadcast license not long ago.
Chavez may seem like a bad man to some, but really is a result of the grass roots organising - aka The Bolivarian Circles.
That seems high. I could probably get a machine from Tiger Direct for what Dictator for Life Hugo Chavez claims his Bolivarian machines cost. You could check the prices from Tiger or CDW or Dell or HP as do as well.
"The goal of the project is to jump-start a domestic IT industry and become an IT exporter to the rest of Latin America."
So they're going to put free (as in beer as well as in "RMS-speak") on commodity hardware that they won't be able to manufacture any cheaper than US companies do. It doesn't sound like a big winner to me.
...Oriental knowhow and cheap (South) American labour.
I'm not repeating myself
I'm an X window user; I'm an ex-Windows user
Left off the word "software".
Cue the FUD comments about Linux and Communism now. :(
Care about privacy? Read this!
Great idea. He could even add abortion rights, open borders, and gun control provisions to the GPL. That would secure his position as the Voice of Reason behind the FOSS movement.
Venezuela is in South America but where is Venezula?
:(){
it will be till somebody pokes around the prepackage and finds it able to only load approved state software, calls home, etc.
Then they'll be lucky to be running Linux. They can download a clean install from almost anywhere, blank the state software and start over. Download free tools to monitor their network traffic and watch to see if the hardware or BIOS has been borked.
But their plan was foiled by loading OSS on that machine, otherwise they would have gotten away with it. A fortunate oversight, don't you agree?
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
I love the Chavez apologists. At the risk of invoking a law that no doubt everyone on Slashdot is familiar with, I wonder if this will end up being the TCP/IP equivalent of Volksempfänger complete with filters to keep comments from more then 100-150 miles away.
It's amazing what people are willing to forget because someone is a enemy of their enemy. Chavez is rapidly militarizing, is the only leader in the entire world who seems not to have gotten the Communism is dead memo, and is now ruling by fiat.
Not good things.
I went to a conference last month that I report on here: http://mdsolar.blogspot.com/2007/05/juicing.html. Brazil is also going big into biodiesel using castor seed. The worry about rainforests right now seems to be palm oil while cane will likely expand into existing grazing land (possibly former forest but cut for beef if it is).s -selling-solar.html
--
Solar power with no installation cost: http://mdsolar.blogspot.com/2007/01/slashdot-user
Politics aside, this shows great promise.
It's far too early to tell how long the Chavez regime will last, but I hope the next government keeps the program alive.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
And it lead to thousands of sick and dying people, when they tried to team up to make medicine. Let's hope they actually attempt "quality control" this time, something communism has always been awful at.
That's great! Now he can keep an eye on everybody. I see him as the boss in V for Vendetta, telling his computer how much he loves her.
20 years from now people will be going "Chavez who?" Is that the guy that thought he could be Hitler and Stalin rolled into one. Good thing the people of Venezuela smacked him down.
would the fanboys like you also praise satan for adopting FOSS/linux to control the fuel delivery and batch-processing of the new arrivals?
Why not? Don't you M$ fanboys preach respect for Mr. Gate's business methods? Just think of this as "cutting off the oxygen" and admire the removal of the M$ tax from one of the richest countries in Latin America.
The rest of us will praise self help and reason where we see it. Is there any good reason people around the world should pay Dell to assemble parts made in China? Free software also has ports to more appropriate hardware, cheap and low power consumption, instead of the eight core monsters M$ is moving towards.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
you will need a time machine to go back to 1945
So I am torn on this topic. I love Linux and free open source software and I want M$ to die a fast death, yet I want U.S. exports to remain high.
Eventually, you can only make money by providing a real service. The chips are still Intel, so where there is US excellence, there is US income. There might be more if it were not for M$ proping up Intel at the expense of other US companies like AMD and IBM. Remember DEC and DR? They had some nice export income too. The US might be more competitive at electronics assembly if we could convince the world not to use Chinese slave labor, but we can't so that market has gone.
Money made based on the Windoze monopolies is a pipe dream. M$ really thought they could corner the word's market for something as ethereal as software? Give me a break. The only thing that's interesting about the M$ story is that they pulled off their little scam for so long. It's over because others can and will do better.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
It may change quickly, but so far http://www.bolivariancomputers.com/ is not even registered.
That's funny. We had to beg China to trade with us. Europe could careless about our economy. Why would they risk their bottom line for us?
Hmmm...is North Corea somehow related to Chick Corea? And is L. Ron Hubbard worshipped as a deity there? Is their prime export clams? Wait, you meant North Korea! With that little pipsqueak with the Elvis pompadour and platform shoes! And no lights on at night! Ah, now I understand. K thx bai...
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
Get back to Venezuela, things are going a bit downhill in the USA.
"Is this mic on?"
... and then they built the supercollider.
Right now the Slashdot "fortune" message at the bottom of the page is "Honi soit la vache qui rit."
This is a mashup of two things:
The famous slogan of the "Order of the Garter" is "Honi soit qui mal y pense", which is French for "shame on he who thinks bad of it."
The label of Laughing Cow brand cheese has a picture of a laughing cow, and the phrase "La vache qui rit", French for "the cow who laughs".
So the mashup more or less means "Shame on the laughing cow" but it's really funny just as a strange juxtaposition of two things that are only related by being in French. This probably isn't very funny to French speakers, more like WTF.
So now you know. And knowing is half the battle. (The other half is bloody violence.)
Those are not issues against the illegal thinks of laws of USofA as violations of cryptographic exportation of USofA, violations of patents inside of USofA, violations of copyrightes inside of USofA, RIAA & MPAA of USofA.
Venezuela is not USofA.
Venezuela is not obligated to follow the strict agreements of USofA.
Venezuela is like a big country of international waters/overseas.
The venezolans can sell Java for venezolans.
The venezolans can erase stupid comments of allegations of Java and of US licenseers.
The venezolans can encrypt messages for warfare to East Middle and to Asia with RSA 65536 bits which is considered illegal inside of USofA and legal outside.
Yo he visto a un venezolano haciendo hacking contra una empresita compañerita de Micro$oft desde su casa, todo gracias a Linux de Hugo Chávez.
I am not surprised at the quantity of anti-Chavez invective from the republi-trolls that seem to infest slashdot now. Regurgitating US propaganda as fact.
/free education.
One or two points.
Venezuela is a Democracy. They have elections every so often so the people get to decide who gets to run the place. They have decided that they prefer Chavez to the alternatives.
Chavez was democratically elected. And re-elected. Something like 60% of the populace want him as leader rather than the traditional oligarchies that used to run the place for their own benefit. They of course hate him for this. Almost all of the media in Venezeula are owned by the wealthy elite.
Chavez is not a communist. He is a socialist. There is a huge difference.
His socialist view is that *all* of the people of Venezuela should have affordable healthcare, at very low cost, if not free.
His socialist view is that *all* of the people should have low cost
Ditto with affordable decent housing for all.
And he is well on the way to achieving these aims.
His policies are meant to benefit the whole country, and not just the wealthy elite oligarchies.
So yes, Washington hates this, and him as a result.
Washington is having conniptions with this because I suspect they are frightened that the rest of the world might look at this socialist, benefit the maximum number of the population thing, and think "Hey, maybe there is something in this." Affordable healthcare for all? Affordable Education for all? Affordable Housing for all? Why haven't we got this?
This is why they have tried to back a coup to remove him from power, Against the democratically expressed wishes of majority of the country.
So, for trying to raise the standard of living of the population, he is automatically reviled and vilified. All this crap about spyware installed by the government on Linux, anti-Bush screensavers and the like is ignorant spite.
And one commenter compared him to Satan?
More than one "hate his guts".
I would be interested to know why exactly.
For those with an enquiring mind, there is a good book called "Pirates of the Caribbean: Axis of Hope" by Tariq Ali. It is about Chavez in Venezuela, Castro in Cuba and Morales in Bolivia. ISBN 978-1-84467-102-1. Published by Verso 2006. Read it and you may learn something.
Sigh. Bye bye karma.
Trying to associate Microsoft with "fun" is like trying to associate Satan with aromatherapy. -Tycho
Yeah, the Western Hemisphere belongs to the U.S.! Or something.
Whether you love Chavez or hate him, whether you think our actions in the hemisphere over the last century have been prudent or monstrous, one thing is clear: while Bush is (incompetently) chasing the middle eastern oil, he's letting our control of Central and South America slip away. So, how many of you Neocons still think Dubya is a bold imperial genius?
Hugo Chávez Government pay 0 US$ to U.S.A. government. Why pay to it for nothing? The answer is zero dollars.
Bill Gates hates him.
George Bush hates him.
Hugo Chávez loves to God.
I believe this is only a political action an not a good thing, because in Venezuela the government said "Use free software"... but when you try really to use it, they put a lot of obstacles, by example I know that Venezuelan universities are forced to buy this machines even if they prices are higher than other ones, this is good for a country? o worst ever, I see that they are deleting linux on this machines and installing pirate version of Windows.
I know this is a good thing, but Venezuela must to do more than just saying everywhere that they support free software, and not doing really efective actions to promote free software, because if you travel to this country you will see a lot of lies that are telling the government about his archiviements and you can contrast reallity with the fantasy in the mind of Venezuelan politicians.
"His socialist view is that *all* of the people of Venezuela should have affordable healthcare, at very low cost, if not free."
His socialist view is that AFTER THE PEOPLE GIVE MOST IF NOT ALL OF THEIR MONEY TO THE GOVERNMENT *all* of the people of Venezuela should have affordable healthcare, at very low cost, if not free.
There ya go, fixed it for you, no need to thank me my socialist view is that I should have done it for free
Large hardware makers have consolidated like crazy, been spun off/sold, and/or gone out of business because the margins in computer hardware manufacturing are notoriously thin. Now Venezuela comes in offering computers for 75% (not 60% as Chavez innumerately claims) of the cost of the big manufacturers. What gives?
i cle/2007/02/08/AR2007020801240.html), and more expensive computers than propoganda, state-owned industry, price controls, and cheap computers.
Frankly, they're not really "cheaper" so much as they're just subsidised. If I lived in Venezuela, I'd rather have press freedom, foreign investment, affordable food (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/art
I'm all in favor of FOSS and cheap hardware, but anyone who can't see through this guy's cynical bullshit is blind, stupid, or willfully ignorant.
Diagnosis: you are paranoid. As luck would have it, you're also being followed.
Chavez is not a communist. He is a socialist. There is a huge difference.
The difference is a difference in degree - not a difference in quality.
Both systems need to use force to take from productive people and give to people who are not productive. They also need to restrict what people can produce so that they do not compete with the inefficient state provided service.
We also have democratically elected communist regimes in India in 2 states - both of those states (Kerala and WB) are economic basket cases which depend on other productive states for aid.
Just like Russia, NK, Cuba & Zimbabwe, Venezuela will end in tragedy.
I think Jimmy Carter (the George Bush of the 70s) rescinded it when he gave the panama canal to the ChiComs.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
Further, guess what happens if you are trying to start the Venezuelan equivilant of Dell in your garage and you start cutting in on the government's new monopoly.
Most morons here are not going to recognize this but their failure to recognize the disaster of this policy does not change that the policy is a disaster that will be realized.
It's like Chavez and Lula are in a race to be the South American Hitl.... (GODWIN TRIGGERED! DEBATE OVER!)
I only said you three things:
-I live in Venezuela and I believe that it's a democracy, but where the state do a great abuse of his power over the people that don't think like they think, by example if you don't register in the PSUV ( Partido Socialista Unido de Venezuela) Socialist United Association of Venezuela (the goverment associantion) they don't give you a job in their industries (about 60% of industries in Venezuela are controlled by the government).
-The other one if you like so much Venezuela, I recommend you to leave your Country an go to live there (resign your nationality), to see if you like, because it's to easy to talk about something when you watch by TV (or have contracts with Venezuela Government), but you must live the experience, and later only later (about 1 o 2 years) said what you think in this forum.
-This is the last one, I can see in your post that you mix reallity with fantasy about Venezuela Reallity... I said you free now another archiviement of the Venezuela Government, the jobs are not given to the best professionals, the only requierement to give you a good job in the government's industry is not to approve "Free of Speech", and only think like they think, and shut up your mouth about your owns ideas.
Anyone notice that it's always left-wing governments and/or left-wing dictatorships that embrace Linux? (For example, the state in India that's forcing Linux down its citizenry is run by a Communist government; Chavez is a left-wing thug; China, embracing Red Flag Linux, is communist, etc.)
Linux only thrives through government fiat. When people are given a choice, they reject linux wholesale.
Why does replies like this read like Ministry of Truth propaganda.
I see it here on Slashdot, BBC, Digg, and Engadget.
You know, government officials posing as common people, giving speeches to the uneducated masses around them. Also the offense they take at everything smells of lost-in-translation jokes taken as "My duty is to correct these brainwashed masses (even though my post is copy-paste approved script)"
Post like the above make little sense when they are posted so early and seem to lack a natural flow across the entire post.
Second: I have never heard bad things from Washington or Big Media over Venezuela.
My distaste for Chavez comes from watching him blather to hear himself talk.
He just wants to feel important in his own little world.
If he get something done, great ('cause it's just a bonus)
Oh and maybe a handful of friend who grew up there, not even wealthy, just lucky enough to be born elsewhere and have somewhere to leave to as Chavez grip closes.
He can't even keep religion as it threatens his cause.
(flamebait)
Makes me wonder if there is a "Ministry of Truth" or some-such in Venezuela that men with texts of approved translated comments copy and paste and edit(as well as a only-studied-english-in-school translators can/do and that is why the comments read funny to me, professional translations spliced poor.)
(sarcasm)
To the parent: Do you know of the difference between Socialist and Communist by definition in English? Or does your script not tell you that, since your job is to make sure that Venezuelan people who are looking else where for news and opinions must be convinced with your chosen copypasta(let your translators catch that meme) that the world loves Hugo Chavez as much as he needs his Venezuelan people to love him and only him while he plays the world stage garnering favor by Bush-bashing, an over-used, tasteless tactic.
Side Note: WHO THE HELL MODDED OP Insightful?
(/sarcasm)(/flamebait)
And No Cowardice for this, No I will not be an AC
On a side note the image is "prejudge"
This was brought to you buy the Department of Redundancy Department
You seem to miss the point. How about Canada? Sweden? Tragedy? Huh?
Brilliant points !!!
How can they possibly cut 40%? It's unbolivable!
Baboons are cute.
And one commenter compared him to Satan? More than one "hate his guts". I would be interested to know why exactly.
He once said that it was right for a starving man to steal bread. That is all it takes to be hated by the "civilized" world.
Football Odds
China is not an enemy of the united states. even chimpy understands that one
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
A penguin in every pot.
Socialism CANNOT be allowed to be a successful sociopolitical system because it would represent a threat to the profit-making machinery of plutocratic market capitalism. The uber-wealthy folks LIKE being able to game the system for profit. While America's economy is growing and corproate profits are at record highs, the middle class is evaporating and life for the poor is fast heading into the toilet - crappy healthcare, crappy education, and on and on.
Now if someone ever actually manages to prove that there's a better way to do things, well, it could all turn very ugly for guys like Dubya. They can't vilify countries full of successful white people - like Sweden, Norway, Denmark, etc - where socialism really works. But a country full of poor brown people is an easy target for their brand of rhetoric.
A-Bomb
You want fun, go home and buy a monkey!
Any executive in power that does not honor the concept of term limits is a dictator, plain and simple.
I don't care if he shits flowers, cures the blinds and raises the dead. If he alters the constitution to eliminate term limits and plans to remain in power indefinitely, or even a very long time, he's a despot and a dictator.
Term limits are a crucial lynchpin concept of democracy. Without them, a leader need never fear answering for their actions.
Ergo, Chavez is a dictator.
Here and here you can see comments from Slashdotters in June 2002 supporting Robert Mugabe's forcible redistribution of land from white Zimbabwean farmers to his political supporters and cronies.
Why did the Slashdotters support dictator Mugabe's actions? From their comments, it seems that they dis-believed the coverage of the issue in the international press and instead bought into Mugabe's propaganda: that the press was biased against him, that he was motivated only to correct a historical injustice and that the land would go to poor people who would know how to farm it efficiently.
In fact, the most critical stories were true: the land was seized from some of the best farmers in the country, and given only to Mugabe's wealthy supporters who did not even know how to farm, and a disastrous famine was the predictable result.
These Slashdot comments stuck in my mind because, as I was reading them, I was dismayed that anyone would fall for the propaganda of a corrupt and oppressive dictator. But in truth, the kind of technical know-how which is common at Slashdot doesn't give any kind of economic or geopolitical insight.
That is why many people here are supporters of Chavez. They serve the role of Lenin's "useful idiots".
It seems that in Slashdot many people have some what strange idea on what socialism is and where they think that they are seeing it.
In socialism the people via government own and control the means of production. Communism is not alternative to socialism, but a way to enter socialism via armed struggle. Social democracy is an alternative way to achieve socialism by transforming the state peacefully into socialism step by step. In the world where we are living, there is no country that is practising socialism.
You said that countries like Sweden, Norway and Denmark are socialist, that's dead wrong. The countries you cited are free capitalistic market economies. The only difference in Nordic and usually in European countries is that they have set up safety nets for their citizen: i.e. well-fare, public education and health-care etc.. Having these things doesn't make a country socialist, it makes it a well-fare state.
When we look at south America and especially what Chavez is doing to Venezuela, they are more or less committed on idea of national socialism: using the economy of a country and it's means of production to further national agendas and it's manifested destination. That is wrong and stupid. They are only going to wreck their economies and after they have used their national resources like oil and gas, their economies will crumble down. The only way to achieve prosperity is to invest in infrastructure, means of production and to abilities of citizens. Nordic countries nor Europe weren't build in a decade, the prosperity that we have and that takes care of welfare state is the product of hundreds of years work and investment into infrastructure and means of production.
Survey research tool for commercial and scientific use
> Following your logic - which is indeed a possibility - isn't it OK to assume that the USA will do
> the same with software made by US corporations and sold to Venezuela?
He said GOVERNMENT computers. The US computers are made by PRIVATE companies. And we all know that private companies are lead by people with strong moral principles, which they would never sell out of to the government.
Also known as taxes. Something any government must collect, if it wishes to defend its people from other governments.
And I, for one, really like the concept of welfare - makes life a lot less stressing when I know that financial difficulties don't lead to starvation.
Please explain why a state-provided - and therefore tax-funded - service would need to compete with anything ? Furthermore, please explain how a state-provided - and therefore tax-funded - service could possibly lose any competition when it can be provided for free ?
Is communism cause or effect there ? Because, historically, it have been bad conditions for people which have spawned communistic regimes; in fact it were the intolerable conditions for industrial workers during industrialization which spawned communism itself.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
You know that, right? They just had their broadcasting permit revoked, which means they will be continuing on cable and satelite tv. They we're just not permitted to go on transmitting on the airwaves, and i would guess that any tv channel that propagated for a cloody coup in the US would quickly get stopped too. There are regulations you know.
Wondering which distro they are using, or whether they have rolled their own (and if so, whether their version is based on any particular distro or is their very own creation) ???
SARAVA!
I guess it's kind of cute, their socialist revolution and all, but hasn't Chavez noticed that socialism was the big failure of the 20th century!
You might want to loosen your tinfoil hat a bit. I think your getting a bit too much exposure to the paranoia waves.
Besides, you don't whine nearly as much if you already have your passport. Nor if you read _all_ of the things about REALID. It will be as pain(ful/less) as renewing your drivers license.
Blame gets us nowhere. If we do nothing then it's all wasted breath.
When we don't like a representative we need to make a ruckus to tell our fellow citizens that that person has not help our situation and needs to be removed. Too bad you feel it's over, 'cause you've lost then. I wont give up. An election (for both President and Senate) is coming up also, you should pay attention for who best supports your purposes. Vote for him/her. We need Libertarian / Constitutionalists minded representatives (note: not politicans) (Yes we need them now! but the election is in 2008)Authortarianism (run following interests backed by Big Businesses) has ran rampant in this Congress for 7 years too long.
It is the very thing Dwight D. Eisenhower warned us about.
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.Also you might want to tell (see also: annoy the hell out of...) your congressmen that you don't like (RealID/register-within-48-hours/prolonged-conflic t/corporate-monopolies).
*sigh*, I'm just sharing the soapbox with G-Men.
Side Note: this 4 times long than the originalThis was brought to you buy the Department of Redundancy Department
The USSR inherited what was basically a failed State - Russia - there were after all sound reasons why there were a series of revolutions in the early 1900s. Although the early USSR had a bad record, it was probably better than Tsarist Russia - only we don't know because under the tsars nobody knew or cared how many peasants were killed or starved every year. All the evidence seems to suggest that, for ordinary Russians, the Soviet Union was a better place to live than post-collapse "capitalist" Russia.
And that's before we get started on success stories like Japan, whose post-war economic rise owed a lot to central planning. Or France.
As for economists, they mostly function by telling the people with economic power what they want to hear. That's because they are economists...and they know how to maximise their own incomes. As Christopher Hitchens pointed out, only this weekend, on the American Civil War the Economist got it wrong (because they told the supporters of slavery and the South in the UK what they wanted to hear) while Karl Marx, no less, correctly predicted that the North would win and that it would have to bring about the end of slavery. You have to go to real academic economists, not popularists like the people you mention, (ones who win Nobel prizes, for instance) to find information about how so-called free markets do not in fact work because they are distorted in the interests of the people with the money.
Pining for the fjords
I have a bad reputation here on slashdot as being typically virulently anti-american, which is true to a certain extent, rational and irrational as it is, and mainly being based on my antipathy towards some people's WASP like xenophobia and arrogance. That said, I have one honest question:
Why does the USA really hate Chavez so much? Honestly.
It's not as if he's about to launch nukular weapons of mass destruction towards middle-income-ville USA. The western press demonstrably distorts what he does (The BBC for example, supposedly a shining example of unpartisan reporting, consistently gives more time to his opposition than to anything else he does or says, mostly since some rich British landowners unused land was forcibly bought by the Vz government). His diatribes are often all but mocked by the same western press resulting in the atitudes you see here on Slashdot.
In fact, the only thing that I can see about Chavez is that he wakes some vague subconscious fear in westerners and especially americans, about "the red menace", but no one is ever able to clearly, using facts, to state exactly what is so "communist" about him or his policies, gioven that the same people think that social safety nets in Europe constitute "socialism" and are also a part of that same vague "red menace".
If this is so, isn't it more likely that Western fairy tales about communism, that western forefathers use to scare their children into behaving themselves at night, are being exploited here?
It actually comes from the concept of personal freedom; the freedom to do as you wish as long as it doesn't harm another. i.e. liberalism, which is ironic because the US have redefined liberal to mean socialist.
You see, you cannot have freedom without responsibility, they are the same thing. If you take away someone's responsibilities you are also at the same time taking away their freedom. A socialist state removes the personal responsibility from the individual and at the same time removes those same freedoms, it cannot be avoided.
Sweden, Norway and Denmark are not examples of socialist states, they are liberal democracies with market economies.
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I appreciated your posting to which I am replying with questions. If there was no healthcare, it meant that there was no money being transfered from the rape of the countries resources by the oil monopoly. The rich take care of the rich and forget the rest, the oil money never tricked into the government coffers. It does now. Chavez, from what I read in our local press, is using the revenue money to create industries and work/jobs for his people. He may do it in a socialistic way, but at least he is doing it. Americans are a wonderful people. But American leaders have an agenda which is not what the founding fathers envisaged. The FF envisaged a democracy. But when one party remains in power too long, that parties objective is to stop serving the people, but to find ways to continue to remain in power. Ergo Power corrupts. And that is why Americans need a new broom. To sweep away the current jerk in power and to restore power to the people. Imagine, you, an american citizen, suspected (without real proof) could be shipped offshore for interrogation by cruel means. Don't say it cannot and does not happen. In closing, the American appetite for money before humanity (remember "In God We Trust, All others Cash" is what will destroy your great country. Chavez is raising the standard of knowledge of South Americans. He will be remembered as a hero. What about your presidents? How will they be remembered?
Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
For those who didn't get the main point of this:
GPL really is ~communism as MS and other have asserted.
Right wing propaganda again, see some real data here.
Average before Chavez military spending: 1.619 billions USD, average 1.6% of GDP
Average Chavez military spending: 1.445 billions USD, average 1.2% of GDP
Yes, in absolute dollar terms military spending as increased since the 2002 USA-backed coups (but who wouldn't do that?) but relative to GDP it has decreased, and by all measure it's less than previous kleptocrats did.
Of course poverty has decreased and social spending increased, really bad bad bad.
Either Intel or AMD (and, most probably, both) are quite happy.
So, in the end, he IS paying US companies.
http://www.dieblinkenlights.com
from "Escape from Freedom" (1941) "Greed is a bottomless pit which exhausts the person in an endless effort to satisfy the need without ever reaching satisfaction."
Pity I can't find any quotes from his "Haben oder Sein"; I suspect it may even be relevant to this discussion although I'm probably off-topic again (sorry).
To be, or not to be: isn't that quite logical, Slashdot Beta?
1) The Amazon rainforest land is not good for agriculture. ;)
2) Brazil uses sugar cane, not corn, to produce ethanol.
3) Sugar cane is grown in places far from the Amazon forest.
Get your facts right before writing horseshit here.
Profit has never equaled happiness.
Profit merely offers more choices that poverty does not afford.
Profit can be frittered away on consumerism that is ultimately fruitless, or on education, entertainment, charity or whatever.
Profit = Choices
Have you seen what the Chinese government says. They have repeatedly made statements that indicate that they believe that the US is their enemy. Fortunately, by the time that China has sufficient military and economic muscle to openly confront the US they will be facing a serious demographic problem (too many old people, not enough women). BTW, the confrontation will be over the independence of countries such as Taiwan, Japan, South Korea (North Korea is already a puppet state of China).
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
"national socialism: using the economy of a country and it's means of production to further national agendas and it's manifested destination."
This would also apply to the US, wouldn't it?
We have several of this computers in my university and the hardware is very good and very cheap but I haven't tried with the stock linux-distro...
ghostbar page.
Chavez may seem like a bad man to some, but really is a result of the grass roots organising
Hitler may have seemed like a bad man too, but really he was also a result of a grass roots organizing.
Godwin's law has been invoked, this thread is done now.
I have three Venezuelan friends that work here and the man is a tyrant. Venezuela was the first country freed by Simon Bolivar and it has become the first country put back into a dictatorship. If you think he is acting for the best interest of the people of Venezuela you are sadly mistaken and deluded. Venezuelans are losing their civil rights daily.
Every time he takes another one away, he goes and hides in Ecuador for a while. The man has no balls and needs to be dethroned before it's too late.
I think pp means that with a "Chavez liberty Linux" computer, it may become illegal to run "imperialist capitalist swine" MS Minesweeper etc. I think this is a bit far fetched, personally. Still, it's better to guard the freedom of the Venezolans and make sure that Wine can run on those computers (and can run MS Minesweeper, MS Word etc.) so they can still sample all the Microsoft goodness and compare them to the (default) Linux installed programs.
To be, or not to be: isn't that quite logical, Slashdot Beta?
Here. In Spanish, what else? Y'know, one doesn't have to pay the Microsoft tax on these; I wonder if we can buy them in the USA?
Sorry, I get it now: the "great firewall of Venezuela", is that what you mean? Do you mean rigging of TCP/IP at the kernel level or filtering in userspace? Both cases I guess the answer would be to re-install a clean kernel and iptables and remove the "out-of-Venezuela" filter. Not trivial but it only has to be done once, then people can e-mail their workaround to people they trust and surf to RCTV International again ;-). I hear they mostly have soaps, anyway..
To be, or not to be: isn't that quite logical, Slashdot Beta?
I want to put my money where my mouth is and support socialism with the good old USD! Where can I buy one of these machines of The People? Link anyone?
Could you at least correct the name of my country on this post title? it is embarrassing.
Might also have something to do with $12++ million dollar salaries for CEO. My bet is a Chinese CEO makes less than the cleaning staff at your US office and actually works for the company full time.
Party big wigs in China clean up just like US executives do but that does not matter. If they were free, their wages would rise just like they have in Japan and every other part of the free, industrialized world. Both US and Chinese executives are exploiting non free Chinese work. That exploitation has cheapened everyone else.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Because all corporations in China are owned, at least partly, by the gov't?
Your oil point is dead on though. We should be weening ourselves off everyone's oil, not looking for an easy fix. Then we can tell all these people to piss off.
There are four boxes used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order.
Just wanted to let you know the country's name is "Venezuela", not "Venezula". Gracias.
-Rollin
l'll tell you why. I grew up in Venezuela, I'm now in the US, working after getting a degree; hoping for better times. Before you say "oh, you're the elite" I'll have you know that I was part of the _tiny_ middle class in Venezuela (both working parents). I was lucky enough to come to the US because I have some relatives here. If you add up our income we would be considered poor in the US.
Chavez has convinced people that the reason they are poor, is because of the ruling upper class. However, up to 90% of the countries income is fueled by the oil industry. So what that means, is that private business accounts for at most 10-20% of the income of the country. So the truth of the matter is that the reason everyone's poor in Venezuela, is that the income from the oil industry was _wasted_ and never used to create industry and infrastructure.
It has never been argued that there wasn't rampant corruption in the US, and that those in power filled their coffers while the poor continued to get poorer. But equating these incumbents with "the rich" or "the ruling elite" is wrong. Most of everyone I know that had money, had it because they had businesses, factories, etc. Not because their family had anything to do with the government. In fact, it has always been looked down on to have anything to do with the government; as you were most likely corrupt.
Chavez has rewritten history and equated these two groups: the people that got money from their hard work (including a lot of portuguese, spanish and italian immigrants) and actually brought some money into the country; with those that have actively been in the government and wasted and misused money; or have just given it away to the poor.
Chavez is not completely bad, but if you actually see his achievements from the "ground level" you'll see that there's more rhetoric than action. However I must admit that he's probably done more for the poor than any other president: Free Clinics, Free Schools, ,etc. However, doing just that will never help the poor prosper, nor will it bring more money into a very poor country. Do the poor live any better than they ever have before? Do they have any more jobs, income, etc? If you look at the numbers, they claim that unemployment is way down as of 2005, lower than it has ever been, yet somehow over 50% of these workers work in the informal sector. How Convenient.
The Claims that the broadcast channel aided the coup are completely ridiculous. But that's for another post. There's just so much to write, so much happened while I was there. There were so many protests. The biggest one happened because he put some decrees in the books that are ridiculous: Do you know they can take your land if you're not actively using it? Do you know that decree 1011 has inspectors, that if they believe a teacher isn't teaching "bolivarian principles" they can get fired? There are so many examples, it's truly scary. Here in the US you get a little scared because of domestic wiretapping, what he's done is so much worse.
... I was just going to say the same -- it would be much more impressive if one of the "socialist" countries would come up with a processor to beat Intel/AMD/IBM/etc. Nope, does not seem to work...
Relying on your natural resources (and selling them to your "worst enemy"), while being engaged in propaganda war is not exactly the smartest move from my point of view -- but then, I grew up in the Soviet Russia, and maintain the position that Soviet Union collapse was mainly due to the falling oil prices.
Paul B.
...Mayhap Venezuela's own Yellow Hat Linux? =P
urd
Ay ay Sir ... Right on target! :-D
send + more == money?
What are they teaching kids these days?
Have you noticed that Korea is a peninsula? North Korea has two land borders. One with China and one with South Korea. The border with South Korea is heavily fortified with large armies on both sides and mine fields. So, if you are starving to death, where are you going to go? Across the border that is almost certain death, or across the relatively more open border to China? and oh yeah, the Chinese send most of those they catch back. So, maybe you should pay attention to what is going on instead of recycling the Vietnam War protester rhetoric.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
I suggest reading the world news section of a newspaper - they are online now.
Mad Zambian, if ever there was a triple bonus karma point option, you deserve it.
The left wing tells plenty of lies about George Bush, and vice versa, but you don't see Bush throwing the likes of Michael Moore in jail.
That's the one key difference.
Another other is that socialism as an economic policy has so completely and consistently failed to make really positive advances in the living standards of the world that it really ought to be as wrong to advocate it as much it might be wrong to advocate a return to feudalism and serfdom (which, incidentally, is the same as socialism anyway).
Dicators and socialists have to go. Even Chomskey concedes that tolerance for dictatorships helps sew the seeds of 9/11. Thus, while I do not agree with Bush's USA PATRIOT act, or his handling of the war in Iraq, the application of the Wilsonian idea to bring freedom to the world is a damned good one.
This is my sig.
Here in Venezuela we are still waiting for the realization of at least these government projects promissed by the president himself:
- Gallineros verticales (vertical chicken farm)
- Conucos organoponicos (Organically fertilized intensive urban agriculture)
- Ruta de la empanada (tamale track, for tourism...)
- Eje Orinoco-Apure (Apure-Orinoco rivers development axis)
- Palma aceitera indonesia (Indonesian oil palm for the development of the arid inner flatlands)
- Project with Ukraine for the development of a rocket launching base
- A 1500MUS$ aluminium plant suposedly agreed with the french government seven years ago.
- The reconstrucion of Vargas state after the massive landslides of year 2000
That just to name a few. The government oficially employs and deploys only open software, but their bureocrats use only MS Office and its data formats. In spanish it is said: "Ver para creer". That means: "Seeing is believing". And in this government of Mr. Chavez, speeches and realizations are orthogonal.
You hate chavez? why?
Because he stoped rich american oil lobbies from taking venezuela's Oil, and instead he wants to exploit it for their own people?????
Seriously dude, the USA is SCREWING North America big time. All these civil wars and dictators are empowered by CIA and US money to keep these countries unstable and steal their oil and resources.
And war on drugs???? That's the bigest joke. Chavez wants to free cocaine for all!
I generally consider myself a libertarian, and for the most part communism/socialism isn't the most efficient way for an economy to function. The main reason the the economy for Venezuela is functioning better (e.g. inflation while very high is going down) is pretty much solely due to high oil prices. Guess what happens when Americans start to make better choices in their energy selection and reduce the demand for oil. After all roughly 90% of the US believe in global warming and something like half believe it's man made. Just type Prius sales into Google and you will find article after article detailing how well they are selling. By 2020 Toyota has said they want all of their cars to be hybrids. I give the economy in Venezuela about 10 years before it has a pretty big collapse.
That sounds soooooo nice. And when any of this will start happening? I mean, the plan sounds terrific, but the praxis seems a bit slow. He has been 9 years in power. Isn't 9 years enough to at least show some results?
/.
When you remove all proprietary software from a computer you save at least 40%. A server example: Microsoft Small Business Server with all the "bells and whistles" (third party spam/virus filter for exchange - add another $1000.00 + per seat fees) and 5 Client Access Licenses wholesale cost around $900.00, more CAL's = more $$, and 8 - 12 hours setup on a hotrod system. *nix with all of the features that I need including spam/virus filter for the email and unlimited access - $0.00 and 8-12 hours setup on a not so hotrod system (no gui means more resources for services). More features, better reliability, hmmm... seems like a no brainer. No memory leak issues on the *nix box either. I have several MS SBS installations in the field that require weekly rebooting. Uptime on my main server: 89 days (there was a power problem 90 days ago). Since this is being instituted by Chavez, watch out for "Linux is anti-American" backlash. ;)
JMG
rackIT.gartnerwebdev.com Fulfill your inner nerd.
*** Long rant warning ***
/free education.
Hey there, a couple of my own counterpoints, and i'm here in the trenches in Venezuela, so I can give you a first hand account. It might sound a little biased at times, I admit, but It's all based on what I see everyday.
Venezuela is a Democracy. They have elections every so often so the people get to decide who gets to run the place. They have decided that they prefer Chavez to the alternatives.
That is, of course, if you trust a first time electronic-vote election without giving the oposing party access to a paper trail to check the validity of it. Even if that was allowed, neighbors of mine got a "No" when they actually pressed "Yes" to the question of "would you like to terminate the mandate of the president blah, blah" (don't reember the exact wording of the question). Whoever bitched about that too loudly was arrested for interfering with the election. I'm not making this up.
Chavez is not a communist. He is a socialist. There is a huge difference.
Well, yes, I agree there is a difference in those two concepts. But I think you missed a wee little speech he gave here a couple of weeks ago (maybe more) when he openly admitted he was a comunist (not a sociallist, but a full fledged communist) and that "my mentor has always been Fidel Castro", and another one in which he ordered all his followers (and he seems to think that means everyone) to give up material goods because being "rich" was a bad thing: if you own two fridges, put one on the village's square, if you own two cars give away one...
Of course, that came much to the dismay to some of his cronies, who own factories bought with state money and usually ride Hummer H2s and H3s, not unlike Kim Jong Il's ass-kissers. In the end I doubt those pay the price of their corruption, as long as they stay faithful to the "Proceso"
His socialist view is that *all* of the people of Venezuela should have affordable healthcare, at very low cost, if not free.
It might have been lacking in terms of quality, I will quickly admit, but there has been a social security system in this country for the better part of the 20th century, if not earlier.
It's been good at times, dismal at others, specially after the eighties in which it got terminally bad. It wasn't free as in you never pay anything but you just paid a small fee out of your paycheck every month and you were automatically a benefficiary. Again, it's in horrible shape (still), but it exists and has existed for a long time.
As for Chavez bringing free healthcare for everyone, I admit he has done some good things here and there, but given the amount of cash this country is receiving and taking into account that he took office in 1999, we should already have a top notch public health system and the sad reality is we don't, period.
His socialist view is that *all* of the people should have low cost
Oooook...
First, Cost: there's been almost-free education (1000 Bs., less than 50 Dollar cents a full semester tuition; 5 Bs, less than a Dollar cent per meal in the mess hall, for at least the past 20 years in the UCV, anybody?) in this country for the past 50-odd years, so nothing new here, pure BS from the "Chavistas".
Second, Quantity: Anybody could get up to high school without any problems, getting into a college was a little trickier because of admission exams and quotas and such. Some corruption might have played a part in depleting quotas, however, like parents paying admittance officials to get their cherubs in.
Third, Quality: Venezuela, over those "democracy" years openly demonized by chavez followers, has produced a lot of quality professionals, college professors were usually recognized scientists and scholars and (in the public colleges at least) almost free. Not everyone got in, but then again not everyone should get in, only those good enough to withstand the grind that produc
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I'd be a lot more optimistic about this if it had been a Venezuelan company announcing this.
Your post makes me think that the best possible country is not a pure capitalist or socialist state, but in fact a well-fare state.
Long life for the well-fare state !!!!!
We are Turing O-Machines. The Oracle is out there.