Bullshit, intelligensce is the hallmark of the geek. If you're average intelligence or lower, you're not a geek or a nerd. If you're average intelligence and have poor social skills, you're a dork. You want to see a true movie about the geekiest nerds on the planet? See Apollo 13. Those NASA engineers with their slide rules, pocket protectors, and thick glasses are the perfect picture of nerds. Just because you know how to start Windows and play WOW or create a power point presentation doesn't make you a geek.
The hacking that they did to get the astronauts home safely was some awsome geekery. You don't do those kind of hacks without superior brainpower.
A dork is a nerd without the brainpower.
are very manipulative
I don't think you've ever met a geek, son. Your description of "geeks" does not match reality.
Those however whose independent thought judges the norm to be bizarre, for some reason, even if that judgement is logical and based in fact, are outcasts. These may be weirdos, or they may just be people who are paying attention.
people who pay attention are a tiny minority. I.e., wierdos.
I was a geek/nerd (at various times), although I had irrational interests in sci-fi as many geeks do
What's irrational about an interest in sci-fi? Unusual maybe, but how is it irrational?
There's a fellow named "Crazy John" that occasionaly goes to the bar I go to. They tell me that at one time he was exceptionally intelligent, until one night he was attacked and left in a dumpster for dead.
Brain damage can destroy your life far worse than anything an intelligent person can do to you.
Don't forget, though, that today's PCs are more powerful than the mainframes of that time. The IBM PC was out at the same time as the Commodore, and it sported only a 4 mz CPU.
However, I don't believe the story. The comment where he allegedly hacked into a government computer with a Commodore 64 comes straight from wikipedia, and the wiki article gives this as a citation, but the Washington Post article the wiki article cites has no mention of his hacking, or any mention of computers at all.
Geeks, the group who will argue logically and factually about a warm fuzzy article to make them feel better and tear the stupid article's premise and arguments to shreds.
However, this was not an article about a scientific study
I got the impression from the article that the book was probably about as scientific as Chariots of the Gods (not at all). I submitted it because I thought is would generate a good discussion for us nerds, and judging from the number of comments, it was. I mean, I don't come to/. for the articles, but for the comments.
I was socially awkward in high school, but I grew out of it. Social skills are necessary in the workplace, and in life satisfaction itself. Intelligence and creativity are good to have, but social skills are more important both in and out of the workplace, unlless you want to be a hermit.
Obviously the writer was talking about success in one's vocation. Poor social skills certainly don't make one happy (and won't get you laid, either), Also, I would posit that good social skills are more important in a corporate setting than intelligence or creativity.
Of course, the combination of good social skills, intelligence, and creativity is a pretty good set to have.
In high school and middle school it doesn't hurt to get a reputation as a mad scientist. And having the teachers hate you is a plus socially as well (note college is NOT like that).
I'm not the one complaining, the rich are. I already said I pay about the right amount in taxes. The rich's biggest tax burden is Federal income tax, the rest of the taxes they pay are effectively zero compared to their incomes. The poor pay little to no Federal taxes depending on just how poor they are, but the other hidden taxes eat them alive. In my tax bracket it's probably about even.
You, like the tea partiers, are concentrating on Federal income tax alone and ignoring the other taxes. Of course, since that's their biggest tax burden that's what they're going to bitch about.
If I forgot to lock my door and someone came in and stole my shit, I'd be pissed at the thief and would try to have him jailed, but I'd be kicking myself in the ass, too.
Fucktards, yes. Idiots, no. They just don't give a shit about your data. As long as companies don't suffer from losing data, they won't give a shit either. There needs to be laws that say if a company lets your data loose, they pay triple the costs of fixing the credit and all other expenses. If such a law were passed, the data breaches would stop.
Yes, then it's DEFINITEALY the IT dept; I specifically asked our IT help desk if I could save the emails locally, and was told "Outlook doesn't support that". There's some sort of "locker" feature that's slow and cumbersome to work around it.
If I wasn't so close to retirement I'd look for a new job. Well, maybe not; I have good bosses, it's the IT dept that sucks. And I've always hated looking for work.
I don't doubt that a bit. Our IT department isn't full of the sharpest knives in the drawer, and as Terry Pratchett might say, they might even be spoons.
As a user, all I want is to be able to send and recieve work-related email. But there's a 50 meg limit on attachments that was never there before (I have to send a lot of PDFs), a limit on the size of your saved emails, despite the fact that we're required to keep the emails, and all kinds of limits and brick walls I've never had to deal with before.
No, I do agree with you about Microsoft, and it angers me that I can't buy a computer without buying Windows. Of course, the only whole computers I've bought since about 1987 were netbooks; hard to build one of those.
The harm to computing in general is evident every time somebody tries to excuse the double click. Of all the things they copied from Apple, that was the dumbest. It made sense on the Apple, which only had one button, but every mouse I ever had sported at least two buttons (I have a cordless laser Logitech with about six on it, but only use two). Showing someone who's never used a computer before how to double click is frustrating for both them and me.
I guess we can blame MS for all the spam, too, since these days that's what viruses are usually for -- to turn PCs into spam-spewing zombies.
My beef with Sony is personal; I was an XCP victim (my daughter installed it, never dreaming that a big-name company like Sony would do anything like that).
And you caught me on a bad, day, too! Somebody broke into my house last month (Broke the back door down to get in) and stole some blank checks. They cashed one at a Shop 'N Save, who are trying to victimize me a second time.
So a rational discussion at/. with intelligent people is VERY welcome.
Windows XP, Novell network, Exchange server. As to getting your email on a phone, that would help very few employees here if any; the folks I see from upstairs all seem to have crackberries (or something that looks very much like one). I don't think they have any open source software here at all.
And, uh, "standard Windows NTLM authentication"? I've never seen Microsoft use anything based on real standards, just their own "standards". I would guess that the reason there's not a Linux email client that works reliably with Exchange is the old "DOS/Windows ain't done 'til Lotus/Word Perfect won't run" (I just saw today that Novell is still in court suing MS over that).
If you're thinking of moving to open source, why not get an open source mail server?
They replaced GroupWise with Outlook where I work last year, and I hate it. So does everybody I work with. Useful features in GroupWise just aren't there with Outlook, it's a PIA to use (you have to go to a web site to change your password!), and there's no added functionality or additional features that I've found.
I hate spreadsheets in general, but I dislike Excel the least (I have to use Excel, Quattro, and Lotus at work).
I had a Microsoft mouse ten or fifteen years ago. It was a good mouse, but I wasn't running Linux back then. I wonder if it would have even worked on Linux or a Mac?
The 360 wasn't an option because the crime cartel that created it will not get my dollar.
I don't get it. Yes, MS is a dirty company, but Sony makes MS look like Mother Theresa. Almost all of MS's victims were their competetitors, almost all Sony's victims were their customers. I avoid MS products because I simply don't like most of them.
If I'd done to Sony's computers what they did to mine, I'd be in prison (my then-teenaged daughter worked in a record store and deliberately installed the software, never dreaming that a big, reputable company would ruin her dad's PC).
One might consider that the rootkit was only possible because Microsoft's OS was insecure
MS is insecure, true, but if you can convince a user to install your program with root priveleges, you can pwn any OS. Like I said, I had autoplay shut off, but my daughter trusted Sony. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.
Microsoft shipped a virus on their OS install disk but you give that a pass. They pushed a patch that changed their OS to allow a single, specially crafted image on a website to root your machine to help Federal law enforcement to install spy software on PCs.
I hadn't heard of that one, would like to read about it and would appreciiate a link. Was the virus deliberate, or a stupid oversight?
Does you altruism keep you from running Windows?
It's not altruism, it's mistrust. And no, I have no Microsoft software at home (I'm forced to use their crappy software at work, though). I run kubuntu. When I bought a netbook last year, Windows was only on it long enough for me to figure out how to install Linux without a CD drive.
The last MS OS I bought was XP (right after Sony rooted me and I couldn't get win 98 drivers for my sound and video cards), and the worst thing it did to me was to replace a perfectly good network driver with one that didn't work at all. But that was incompetence rather than evil.
I got tired of chasing the dragon about the time the game companies all started treating their customers like crap, and just stopped gaming.
Someone should submit a/. story "Who's more evil, Sony or Microsoft?" I would posit that MS is incompetent and/or don't care (they don't have to with their virtual monopoly), while Sony deliberately commits evil against its paying customers time and time again.
I would imagine that Sony's console probably is a better made console than Microsoft's, but I have little experience with either (I think my nephew has both).
I don't feel I have the moral high ground; I use AT&T for internet access, and that makes me feel dirty, but Comcast is my only other choice and they're as evil and more expensive.
You wouldn't think people were blowing the CD rootkit out of proportion if you'd been a victim of it. I don't see where it being a different branch has anything to do with it; it's the same CEO and same board of directors. As much as Microsoft has pissed me off over the years, I'd still consider an Xbox if I were looking for a game console, although I'd probably get a Wii. My only complaint about MS is (with the exception of Excel) that their code and design are crappy.
A few are, but not most. Only the deductions for other taxes paid. A deduction for property tax paid is to keep you from overpaying tax, a deduction for mortgage interest is not. Note you can't deduct interest on your car loan.
I've owned and I've rented, and rents are -- must be -- more expensive than mortgages on the same property, or the landlord could make no profit. A shining example is the difference between the big two story house I lost after my divorce; the mortgage payment was less than the tiny apartment my daughter and I moved into. "My ROOM was bigger than this apartment!" she lamented.
11k deductions right off the bat? Maybe if you're married and have six kids. Not if you're single. You have to be extremely poor to get the Earned Income tax credits, and all but that one require you to have dependant children.
Food is taxed in Illinois (very regressive taxes here). Damned near everything is taxed, and taxed highly; folks on the east side of the river in the St Louis area buy their gasoline and cigarettes in Missouri because the taxes make them so uch cheaper there (while Missouri will charge you property tax on your car if you live there). And groceries aren't a very large part of my expenses, although they were when my daughters were teenagers. I probably only spend twice on food what I spend on cleaning supplies, laundry, etc., and those all have sales tax added everywhere that has a sales tax.
I agree that the middle class (especially upper middle class) pay higher income taxes, especially in states with a progressive tax system. Only the very rich and very poor get government assistance.
I get a good sized chunk back in April, but that's because I claim zero dependants on my W-4; I had a huge income tax bill one year when the ex and I lived in Florida working for starvation wages, and claimed zero ever since. It was a hardship paying that big chunk of change that April.
Those government benefits that supposedly benefit the poor are really benefiting the poor's employers, who don't have to pay a living wage like they do in most countries (link).
When you're poor you don't notice the tax burdens, because most of your taxes are invisible -- sales taxes, excise taxes, etc. Federal gasoline taxes are $.185 per gallon, Illinois gasoline taxes are an additional ninteen cents, plus 6.5% sales tax, plus.3% underground storage tax, plus local taxes on top of it. The taxes alone on a tank of gasoline will cost someone earning minimum wage an hour's work. Those taxes on someone upper middle class are equal to a few minutes' work, seconds for the rich, and so low as to be a statistical error on the very rich. The poor man, when he's paying that $4.00 for a gallon doesn't notice that over ten percent of the price is tax (more like 20 or 25 percent a year or two ago before the oil companies started raping us). He doesn't notice the property taxes he's indirectly paying, he doesn't notice the taxes on communications, utilities, and everything else he's being taxed to death on. Taxes on the poor are largely invisible, but they're there nevertheless.
The PS3 suddenly became an interesting product again:-) Now lets give us some benchmarks of some scientific number crunching apps!
Not to me. Sony is at war with its customers; that's been evident since XCP. Hell, I felt dirty buying a broken Sony stereo for ten bucks, even though Sony didn't profit from my purchase.
How do you know the PS3s don't have hardware rootkits? I know of no other company that's deliberately installed malware on its products. I avoid Sony like the plague and can't understand why anyone would buy anything from them, or how it's has stayed in business, let alone how it can actually have fanbois.
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First off, geek != intelligent
Bullshit, intelligensce is the hallmark of the geek. If you're average intelligence or lower, you're not a geek or a nerd. If you're average intelligence and have poor social skills, you're a dork. You want to see a true movie about the geekiest nerds on the planet? See Apollo 13. Those NASA engineers with their slide rules, pocket protectors, and thick glasses are the perfect picture of nerds. Just because you know how to start Windows and play WOW or create a power point presentation doesn't make you a geek.
The hacking that they did to get the astronauts home safely was some awsome geekery. You don't do those kind of hacks without superior brainpower.
A dork is a nerd without the brainpower.
are very manipulative
I don't think you've ever met a geek, son. Your description of "geeks" does not match reality.
Those however whose independent thought judges the norm to be bizarre, for some reason, even if that judgement is logical and based in fact, are outcasts. These may be weirdos, or they may just be people who are paying attention.
people who pay attention are a tiny minority. I.e., wierdos.
I was a geek/nerd (at various times), although I had irrational interests in sci-fi as many geeks do
What's irrational about an interest in sci-fi? Unusual maybe, but how is it irrational?
There's a fellow named "Crazy John" that occasionaly goes to the bar I go to. They tell me that at one time he was exceptionally intelligent, until one night he was attacked and left in a dumpster for dead.
Brain damage can destroy your life far worse than anything an intelligent person can do to you.
Don't forget, though, that today's PCs are more powerful than the mainframes of that time. The IBM PC was out at the same time as the Commodore, and it sported only a 4 mz CPU.
However, I don't believe the story. The comment where he allegedly hacked into a government computer with a Commodore 64 comes straight from wikipedia, and the wiki article gives this as a citation, but the Washington Post article the wiki article cites has no mention of his hacking, or any mention of computers at all.
The fact that it was poorly written isn't the worst thing about it. The worst thing was its illogic and ignorance of facts.
Nerds don't usually work for banks or airlines. But otherwise, your comment is entirely correct.
Geeks, the group who will argue logically and factually about a warm fuzzy article to make them feel better and tear the stupid article's premise and arguments to shreds.
However, this was not an article about a scientific study
I got the impression from the article that the book was probably about as scientific as Chariots of the Gods (not at all). I submitted it because I thought is would generate a good discussion for us nerds, and judging from the number of comments, it was. I mean, I don't come to /. for the articles, but for the comments.
I was socially awkward in high school, but I grew out of it. Social skills are necessary in the workplace, and in life satisfaction itself. Intelligence and creativity are good to have, but social skills are more important both in and out of the workplace, unlless you want to be a hermit.
Obviously the writer was talking about success in one's vocation. Poor social skills certainly don't make one happy (and won't get you laid, either), Also, I would posit that good social skills are more important in a corporate setting than intelligence or creativity.
Of course, the combination of good social skills, intelligence, and creativity is a pretty good set to have.
In high school and middle school it doesn't hurt to get a reputation as a mad scientist. And having the teachers hate you is a plus socially as well (note college is NOT like that).
: a carnival performer often billed as a wild man whose act usually includes biting the head off a live chicken or snake
Ozzie Osbourne?
I'm not the one complaining, the rich are. I already said I pay about the right amount in taxes. The rich's biggest tax burden is Federal income tax, the rest of the taxes they pay are effectively zero compared to their incomes. The poor pay little to no Federal taxes depending on just how poor they are, but the other hidden taxes eat them alive. In my tax bracket it's probably about even.
You, like the tea partiers, are concentrating on Federal income tax alone and ignoring the other taxes. Of course, since that's their biggest tax burden that's what they're going to bitch about.
If I forgot to lock my door and someone came in and stole my shit, I'd be pissed at the thief and would try to have him jailed, but I'd be kicking myself in the ass, too.
Fucktards, yes. Idiots, no. They just don't give a shit about your data. As long as companies don't suffer from losing data, they won't give a shit either. There needs to be laws that say if a company lets your data loose, they pay triple the costs of fixing the credit and all other expenses. If such a law were passed, the data breaches would stop.
Yes, then it's DEFINITEALY the IT dept; I specifically asked our IT help desk if I could save the emails locally, and was told "Outlook doesn't support that". There's some sort of "locker" feature that's slow and cumbersome to work around it.
If I wasn't so close to retirement I'd look for a new job. Well, maybe not; I have good bosses, it's the IT dept that sucks. And I've always hated looking for work.
Sounds like your Outlook isn't set up properly.
I don't doubt that a bit. Our IT department isn't full of the sharpest knives in the drawer, and as Terry Pratchett might say, they might even be spoons.
As a user, all I want is to be able to send and recieve work-related email. But there's a 50 meg limit on attachments that was never there before (I have to send a lot of PDFs), a limit on the size of your saved emails, despite the fact that we're required to keep the emails, and all kinds of limits and brick walls I've never had to deal with before.
No, I do agree with you about Microsoft, and it angers me that I can't buy a computer without buying Windows. Of course, the only whole computers I've bought since about 1987 were netbooks; hard to build one of those.
The harm to computing in general is evident every time somebody tries to excuse the double click. Of all the things they copied from Apple, that was the dumbest. It made sense on the Apple, which only had one button, but every mouse I ever had sported at least two buttons (I have a cordless laser Logitech with about six on it, but only use two). Showing someone who's never used a computer before how to double click is frustrating for both them and me.
I guess we can blame MS for all the spam, too, since these days that's what viruses are usually for -- to turn PCs into spam-spewing zombies.
My beef with Sony is personal; I was an XCP victim (my daughter installed it, never dreaming that a big-name company like Sony would do anything like that).
And you caught me on a bad, day, too! Somebody broke into my house last month (Broke the back door down to get in) and stole some blank checks. They cashed one at a Shop 'N Save, who are trying to victimize me a second time.
So a rational discussion at /. with intelligent people is VERY welcome.
Windows XP, Novell network, Exchange server. As to getting your email on a phone, that would help very few employees here if any; the folks I see from upstairs all seem to have crackberries (or something that looks very much like one). I don't think they have any open source software here at all.
And, uh, "standard Windows NTLM authentication"? I've never seen Microsoft use anything based on real standards, just their own "standards". I would guess that the reason there's not a Linux email client that works reliably with Exchange is the old "DOS/Windows ain't done 'til Lotus/Word Perfect won't run" (I just saw today that Novell is still in court suing MS over that).
If you're thinking of moving to open source, why not get an open source mail server?
They replaced GroupWise with Outlook where I work last year, and I hate it. So does everybody I work with. Useful features in GroupWise just aren't there with Outlook, it's a PIA to use (you have to go to a web site to change your password!), and there's no added functionality or additional features that I've found.
I hate spreadsheets in general, but I dislike Excel the least (I have to use Excel, Quattro, and Lotus at work).
I had a Microsoft mouse ten or fifteen years ago. It was a good mouse, but I wasn't running Linux back then. I wonder if it would have even worked on Linux or a Mac?
I doubt a fanboy would say "If Sony do keep shitting all over us". A fanboy wouldn't even notice he was knee deep in manure.
Reason #3 was especially insightful. Your comment should be modded up.
The 360 wasn't an option because the crime cartel that created it will not get my dollar.
I don't get it. Yes, MS is a dirty company, but Sony makes MS look like Mother Theresa. Almost all of MS's victims were their competetitors, almost all Sony's victims were their customers. I avoid MS products because I simply don't like most of them.
If I'd done to Sony's computers what they did to mine, I'd be in prison (my then-teenaged daughter worked in a record store and deliberately installed the software, never dreaming that a big, reputable company would ruin her dad's PC).
One might consider that the rootkit was only possible because Microsoft's OS was insecure
MS is insecure, true, but if you can convince a user to install your program with root priveleges, you can pwn any OS. Like I said, I had autoplay shut off, but my daughter trusted Sony. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.
Microsoft shipped a virus on their OS install disk but you give that a pass. They pushed a patch that changed their OS to allow a single, specially crafted image on a website to root your machine to help Federal law enforcement to install spy software on PCs.
I hadn't heard of that one, would like to read about it and would appreciiate a link. Was the virus deliberate, or a stupid oversight?
Does you altruism keep you from running Windows?
It's not altruism, it's mistrust. And no, I have no Microsoft software at home (I'm forced to use their crappy software at work, though). I run kubuntu. When I bought a netbook last year, Windows was only on it long enough for me to figure out how to install Linux without a CD drive.
The last MS OS I bought was XP (right after Sony rooted me and I couldn't get win 98 drivers for my sound and video cards), and the worst thing it did to me was to replace a perfectly good network driver with one that didn't work at all. But that was incompetence rather than evil.
I got tired of chasing the dragon about the time the game companies all started treating their customers like crap, and just stopped gaming.
Someone should submit a /. story "Who's more evil, Sony or Microsoft?" I would posit that MS is incompetent and/or don't care (they don't have to with their virtual monopoly), while Sony deliberately commits evil against its paying customers time and time again.
I would imagine that Sony's console probably is a better made console than Microsoft's, but I have little experience with either (I think my nephew has both).
I don't feel I have the moral high ground; I use AT&T for internet access, and that makes me feel dirty, but Comcast is my only other choice and they're as evil and more expensive.
You wouldn't think people were blowing the CD rootkit out of proportion if you'd been a victim of it. I don't see where it being a different branch has anything to do with it; it's the same CEO and same board of directors. As much as Microsoft has pissed me off over the years, I'd still consider an Xbox if I were looking for a game console, although I'd probably get a Wii. My only complaint about MS is (with the exception of Excel) that their code and design are crappy.
Deductions are there so you don't overpay in tax
A few are, but not most. Only the deductions for other taxes paid. A deduction for property tax paid is to keep you from overpaying tax, a deduction for mortgage interest is not. Note you can't deduct interest on your car loan.
I've owned and I've rented, and rents are -- must be -- more expensive than mortgages on the same property, or the landlord could make no profit. A shining example is the difference between the big two story house I lost after my divorce; the mortgage payment was less than the tiny apartment my daughter and I moved into. "My ROOM was bigger than this apartment!" she lamented.
11k deductions right off the bat? Maybe if you're married and have six kids. Not if you're single. You have to be extremely poor to get the Earned Income tax credits, and all but that one require you to have dependant children.
Food is taxed in Illinois (very regressive taxes here). Damned near everything is taxed, and taxed highly; folks on the east side of the river in the St Louis area buy their gasoline and cigarettes in Missouri because the taxes make them so uch cheaper there (while Missouri will charge you property tax on your car if you live there). And groceries aren't a very large part of my expenses, although they were when my daughters were teenagers. I probably only spend twice on food what I spend on cleaning supplies, laundry, etc., and those all have sales tax added everywhere that has a sales tax.
I agree that the middle class (especially upper middle class) pay higher income taxes, especially in states with a progressive tax system. Only the very rich and very poor get government assistance.
I get a good sized chunk back in April, but that's because I claim zero dependants on my W-4; I had a huge income tax bill one year when the ex and I lived in Florida working for starvation wages, and claimed zero ever since. It was a hardship paying that big chunk of change that April.
Those government benefits that supposedly benefit the poor are really benefiting the poor's employers, who don't have to pay a living wage like they do in most countries (link).
When you're poor you don't notice the tax burdens, because most of your taxes are invisible -- sales taxes, excise taxes, etc. Federal gasoline taxes are $.185 per gallon, Illinois gasoline taxes are an additional ninteen cents, plus 6.5% sales tax, plus .3% underground storage tax, plus local taxes on top of it. The taxes alone on a tank of gasoline will cost someone earning minimum wage an hour's work. Those taxes on someone upper middle class are equal to a few minutes' work, seconds for the rich, and so low as to be a statistical error on the very rich. The poor man, when he's paying that $4.00 for a gallon doesn't notice that over ten percent of the price is tax (more like 20 or 25 percent a year or two ago before the oil companies started raping us). He doesn't notice the property taxes he's indirectly paying, he doesn't notice the taxes on communications, utilities, and everything else he's being taxed to death on. Taxes on the poor are largely invisible, but they're there nevertheless.
The PS3 suddenly became an interesting product again :-) Now lets give us some benchmarks of some scientific number crunching apps!
Not to me. Sony is at war with its customers; that's been evident since XCP. Hell, I felt dirty buying a broken Sony stereo for ten bucks, even though Sony didn't profit from my purchase.
How do you know the PS3s don't have hardware rootkits? I know of no other company that's deliberately installed malware on its products. I avoid Sony like the plague and can't understand why anyone would buy anything from them, or how it's has stayed in business, let alone how it can actually have fanbois.