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Gitbrew Releases OtherOS++ PS3 Linux Dual Boot
An anonymous reader writes "Gitbrew has proudly released otherOS++ Linux Dual Boot v1.0b1, enabling PS3 users to install an alternative OS to their console with full access to all system hardware, including all 8 CELL cores (making the PS3 the world's most affordable supercomputer). For more information check out the installation instructions and source code."
The PS3 suddenly became an interesting product again :-) Now lets give us some benchmarks of some scientific number crunching apps!
hmm. how does an 8 core cell stack up against the current range of desktop processors? also how much power does it use? once you factor in electricity for a couple of years it might not be so cheap.
George Hotz widely distributed information on how to install another operating system onto the PS3 to run illegal versions of PS3 games and software.
Libel much?
Wow Sony really are getting 0wn3d royale with cheese.
[...]including all 8 CELL cores (making the PS3 the world's most affordable supercomputer).
I'm not sure I'd call a PS3 a supercomputer. If you clustered a bunch of them it might qualify but even so there are plenty of rendering and computation clusters out there that could easily beat a cluster of several dozen PS3's without their owners thinking of them as "supercomputers".
Maybe I'm just old-fashioned but to me a supercomputer is something that cost millions of dollars to build and is capable of crunching numbers on a scale that a run-of-the-mill computer is incapable of (and yes, this of course assumes that the run-of-the-mill computer and the supercomputer are of the same era, to compare a Cray from the early '80s with a modern octo-core server with 64+ GiB of RAM wouldn't be fair).
Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
Pretty sure the 8th SPU is hardware disabled to increase the yields. Might want to fix that summary there. Just sayin'...
Look at the comments on the same piece of news, but from a site that's predominantly made up of PS3 fans...
http://n4g.com/news/756574/hackers-bring-back-otheros-for-ps3/com
+1 IDisagreeSoHeMustBeATrollOrAnAstroturferOrAShill
Seriously, "the world's most affordable supercomputer" what drivel is this?
Last time I checked, having 8 multi-purpose cores did not a super computer make.
I'll grant that the PS3 is an affordable supercomputer component, but it's no more "super" than my rack of 8 core servers -- In fact, in terms of flops it's no where close to my server rack's combined processing power...
Considering that the PS3 is only a possible component in a super computer, and the fact that there are many cheaper components with which to build a super (cluster) computer I call bullshit on both "world's most affordable" and " supercomputer" claims -- That is, unless the PS3 now comes with dual identities, one of which is a crime fighting vigilante by night...
But can this software install Meatloaf's custom Linux kernel? I heard the changes he made to scheduling mean that it is a lot easier to take advantage of multi-core architectures. Bash Meatloaf's music all you want, but he's a wicked coder, and his contributions to Linux are impressive.
Last time I checked, having 8 multi-purpose cores did not a super computer make.
Last time I checked, structuring your sentence in an old-timey way does not a better point make.
Seriously, calling devices "supercomputers" reeks of either fanboyism or extreme ignorance. If a desktop device can do a given amount of calculations, that amount of calculations don't make something a supercomputer anymore.
Please remember that the first supercomputer, the Cray-1, did 250 MFLOPS. So if that is what it takes to be a supercomputer then my cellphone qualifies. Of course it doesn't anymore, these days you need to talk multiple TFLOPS (or more).
A PS3 is not a supercomputer. In fact these days, it isn't all that impressive. The best they claim is 25.6 GFLOPS per cell in theoretical performance, so 205 GFLOPS is the best you theoretically get, if there are no bandwidth constraints (which there are on a PS3) for single precision math. Ok well testing my actual Radeon 5870, I get 800 GFLOPS for single precision, 227 for double precision. That is an actual benchmark of the card running on my desktop. It also can handle a much larger problem set, having much more RAM (1GB on the card).
Heck even my i7 benches at 80 GFLOPS on a real test, without using AVX, and of course is far more flexible than the SPUs since all cores are full featured.
Not saying there is anything wrong with the Cell and indeed there may be some cases where it is the best choice. It is something of a hybrid between a pure stream processor like a GPU and a very general CPU like an i7. However trying to claim it makes the PS3 a "supercomputer" is stupid. Even if it were the most powerful chip out there, the PS3 still would be a supercomputer by virtue of the fact that if one made a large computer with a lot of Cells, it would be much faster (this has been done).
However that aside, it really isn't all that fast. Modern GPUs out do it at stream processing many times over. My 5870, which is not the latest tech and just a consumer card, was about 4 times as fast in reality as a Cell is in theory, and that is running on a desktop system doing other things (I didn't boot to a special graphics benchmark or anything).
Last time I checked, having 8 multi-purpose cores did not a super computer make.
Last time I checked, structuring your sentence in an old-timey way does not a better point make.
Damn, nice burn man, my point is totally irrelevant now thanks to your pointing out of the sentence structure which could be improved. I suppose using not one but two ellipses completely obliterated any worth my statements might have held...
If SONY makes a stink about this, I say a massive protest is in order.
I bet GeoHot reached his settlement before all this happened.
Servers Sony right. When you DRM, You DESERVE TO DIE.
Why would I spend $300 on hardware that Sony is constantly butchering, when I could spend it on a PC CPU (or now that OpenCL is getting stable, GPU)?
I mod down anyone who says "I will be modded down for this", regardless of the rest of their comment
Look at it this way... at least you can use your PS3 while waiting for your PSN account to be reactivated ^_^
"We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run over." - Aneurin Bevan
Yay, now we can get back to everyone on slashdot saying that Linux on the PS3 is pointless.
So how long until Sony decide to request the logs and account details for everyone on /. who saw this story? Then how much longer until they leak all that data?
Never underestimate the dark side of the Source
my laptops graphics card is a super computer, according to slashdot editors..
also, you have to hack your ps3 to achieve this.
what's worst, a finnish publication published these news as "ps3 again supports linux", which made it seem like sony backed off from otherOs limitation.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
I can't wait for Sony to sue Gitbrew, and then a few days later all Sony assembly lines suddenly spinning up and down uncontrollably to the tune of "this is a triumph" or whatever other tune the hackers fancy...
Apparently, Geoff Levand was one of the people behind this release [1]. Geoff Levand is the programmer who worked for Sony supporting OtherOS and made the ill-fated and oft-quoted promise that Sony would never ever remove OtherOS from fat PS3s. [2] Looks like Geoff just kicked his former employer in the nuts. Go Geoff!
[1] http://psgroove.com/content.php?1029-PS3-Dual-Boot-GameOS-Linux-CFW-Released
[2] http://lists.ozlabs.org/pipermail/cbe-oss-dev/2010-February/007202.html
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I just what to know how well XBMC for linux runs on this thing now that full access to the hardware is possible (I don't own a PS3... yet).
The XBMC team has stated numerous times that they aren't interested in supporting XBMC on a hacked platform anymore, but this is different since we might be able to run the vanilla linux version on it (and if any optimization is required for it to run smoothly, maybe it can be done at the OS level - outside of XMBC).
+1
___________________ I want to be free()!
I just wanted to let you know that will be cloning and redistributing this release.
Come and get me you cunt fucks. That is, if you have the balls. 3
You can't take the sky from me.
Sadly, that's the way the news works these days, it's not news unless it's sensational news. Well reasoned and accurate statements are cold and boring, who the hell wants to read that? Urmm...personally, I do and I know a lot of people that do. People with the ability to think critically. Which unfortunately is a minority everywhere. Hence, no place is immune from the sensational headlines being needed to garner page hits. *sigh*
I followed and read the path of links all the way to the core announcement and along the way I heard mention of a switch in the firmware that could be modified that prevents the PS3 from phoning home. If true, that would definitely be something that I'd be interested in doing. Given the recent security breach, I never want to have the PS3 connect to PSN again. I only play single player games, so I don't even have a need for PSN other than DLC (which I hate and refuse to buy) and game updates (it won't be long before those are available offline through the PS3 underground scene).
Plus at this time in my life, I have enough time to start considering rewriting the basic interface that the PS3 uses. It'd also be nice to be able to use a modern version of opera and a few other utilities.
You're a dumbass.
If the word "supercomputer" wasn't there, the article wouldn't be modded up. The point of the post is otherOS++. It's great to get the capability to run linux again AND be able to go online, frag some friends and get all your personal information stolen. Supercomputer, probably not, super cool hack, for sure!
Maybe I'm missing something, but where are the actual instructions? They just list a bunch of downloads and features. How do I start the process of installing Linux on my PS3?
You might be forgetting that the Cell was released in 2006. The multi-core CPUs from Intel today are only just now starting to reach the peak theoretical performance than the Cell. Also, your Radeon was released when? 2009? Given Moore's law (which is still in effect for parallel architectures like Cell and GPUs), the factor by which your Radeon beats the Cell isn't too bad. Also note that the compute performance of an I/O device like a GPU can be limited by the I/O bus; both in terms of bandwidth and latency. GPUs used for computing typically perform best on large chunk, long running, computations. I believe that the Cell could possibly still trounce a modern GPU for smaller, less-memory intensive, jobs since it has access to main memory and is scheduled directly by the operating system (there's no GPU driver middle-man). This will change soon of course with on-chip integrated CPU/GPU solutions. However, it took nearly 5 years after Cell's release to get to that point.
So don't rag too much on Cell. It's very old, if not ancient, by microprocessor standards.
Look at the comments on the same piece of news, but from a site that's predominantly made up of PS3 fans
There are 50 million PS3 consoles out in the real world.
70 million PSN accounts. 17 million PlayStation Home social networking accounts. 8 million MOVE controllers.
These numbers are credible - and nothing of the sort has ever been posted here for Homebrew or home use of the OtherOS.
Firmware upgrades have kept the five year old PS3 feature-competitive with high end, stand-alone, Blu-Ray players.
The mix of HD streaming media and other online services is quite good - Neflix at 1080p with full theater sound.
I don't see much to complain about in the PS3 bestseller lists. - with strong contenders in every genre.
Considered realistically and as it should be - as a home entertainment product - the PS3 serves its users very well -
and the geek is an unwelcome intrusion.
The geek has lived within the "walled garden" of the Linux distribution for fifteen years -
where the "unwelcome" mat is prominently laid out for the gadgets, programs, codecs, drivers, etc., that don't meet his own standards of technological perfection, ideological purity or political correctness.
It makes for a system that is simple, secure and predictable.
But when others choose the same path and prove no less intractable about the details, it always comes as a painful surprise.
go to war against sony.... buy the ps3, put linux on it and don't buy any ps3 games....they lose money on the sale of the ps3 and don't gain it back selling you games, and you get a 'super computer'.
lose, lose, lose=sony
win, win, win=you
soylentnews.org Go there to enjoy the people!
Last time I checked this was a story about OtherOS being made available again. Let's try and focus on that, k sporty?
This is why Folding at Home rewrote their code, to work with the PS3.
if your code is designed for the Cell processor from the get go, you will have an affordable setup.
New Cells are smaller and run cooler now too, so there also the savings in energy.
It can't run windows, so of course it's called a supercomputer. Install it on your server rack and see if you get any of the previous performance.
The PS3 is not a super computer but it's a great component to use to make one on a budget. A single cell no but 8 cells networked would crush your server rack in all operations unless you have a couple of Tesla cards in there. From a practical stand point IBM's cell blades are a better starting point as they have more memory etc. The PS3's selling point is it's $299 less then one of your i7s which has less then 1/3 the Gflops the Cell in the PS3 gets. If you were doing any serious number crunching on that server rack you'd have a couple of Tesla's or Firestream processing cards in them. Just one Tesla card = 7.4 core i7s.
Well you're definitely forgetting that the PS3 architecture is only capable of that kind of performance on very small data sets! Essentially... your claims are bullshit.
To give you an example - originally the PS3 wasn't going to have a GPU as the super-duper Cell architecture didn't need one. Bullshit of course... which is why they hurriedly had to redesign it to add one... and why the X-Box 360 still outclasses it.
But I can change that statement to "While the Cell clients are powerful, the x64 is more versatile than the Cell clients are and can handle more types of work units than the Cell clients can."
Cell processors are kinda hybrids between normal CPUs and GPUs. They aren't full out stream-only processors like GPUs are. However they are not nearly as general purpose powerful as something like an Intel CPU is.
A regular x86-64 chip is good at everything. Integer, singe or double (or even quad these days) precision FP, vector math, lots of branching, whatever. Any kind of problem, it can solve pretty much equally well. The tradeoff for that is it doesn't excel at specific types of problems as well.
The Cell trades some of that for better stream performance. On the right kind of code, it can throw out some heavy GFLOPS, but it is still an ok general purpose CPU. GPUs trade off more. They are amazing stream processors but you can find a great many tasks they suck at.
At the far end of the scale would be an ASIC, a processor that only does one thing but is amazing at it. Take the ASIC in a gigabit switch. Those things can handle high speed, low latency switching of multiple ports, and are very small and power efficient. This sort of thing would choke a computer. However that is all they do, they can't do anything but switch Ethernet data, they are completely inflexible.
There is no right or wrong way, it is all in what you want. My original point was just that the PS3 isn't really so impressive these days.
Also the Cell is rather crippled on the PS3 by lack of RAM. It has direct access to only 256MB of RAM (the video RAM connection is fast to write to, but not to read from for the Cell). That rather limits the problem set you can work on. Most GPUs sport 1GB, finding ones with 2GB isn't hard, and for stream processing you can get special cards with as much as 6GB. PCs, of course, can easily scale way above that.
My point was just the "OMG t3h supercomputar!" shit is really stupid. The PS3 has a processor that isn't all that impressive (that doesn't mean it is bad, just that it isn't amazing) these days and is shackled with only 256MB of RAM.