Sounds like your instructor had you implementing product/SQL features, rather than databases. We were building third normal form dbs without product based foreign key/constraint/RI support from the product in about 1989 (Informix), and building business application db's that were more or less 3NF (often denormed for performance in places) throughout the late 90's with Mysql. Sure, it puts RI checking into the application, which is why constraints are a great feature. But your assertion that you can't go to 3NF without product support for foreign keys seems a bit of a stretch.
And again, if Codd and Date say that the prior definition is what defines a relational database, I think it's safe to say that MySQL has been one from day zero.
I advise my clients that MySQL is a reasonable option for their data warehouses on a weekly basis. Your decision does not make me question that advice. I can appreciate your stance, and generally enjoy using your product.
Um, maybe I missed something when I was snoozing, but how can something that implements SQL not be a 'real' relational database? Seems to me that Codd said, "A relational database is a time-varying collection of data, all of which can be accessed and updated as if they were organized as a collection of tabular time-varying tabular (nonhierarchic) relations of assorted degrees defined on a given set of simple domains." Since he and Date kind of defined the realm, I'm inclined to go along with his definition.
In what way would you assert that MySQL doesn't fit this criterion?
I think the good news is that no few members of the military are starting to express questions themselves about our government and it's goals. This is the first time I am aware of in history when retired generals (Wes Clark first among them) are calling foul on the government in more than isolated cases.
BTW, it is legal now for private citizens to purchase AR-15's and.223 ammo. For now. I, for one, have been stocking up.
I recently costed out a solar setup for my house, located in Seattle, and with about a 40% contribution from state subsidies, it had only a 32 year payback on my investment. Yep, 32 years. It's not economically feasible, yet. But it will be.
Several times, and the physics of why Monster cables do nothing that plain wire can't do is well understood. Bulk 12 gauge multi strand copper is all you need for the highest end gear, and most people won't be able to tell the difference between that and lamp cord without an oscilloscope.
Or that demand is relatively low for the stolen IDs. The financial institutions are getting quite savvy about detecting and preventing fraudulent transactions. My CC number got stolen two weeks ago. The bank detected the bad transactions within 4 hours and shut the card down. I didn't lose a dime. That's Bank Of America, for anyone who cares.
That may well be because people with more money have are less likely to discard their slips, and to withdraw more money. I'm not inclined to leave pieces of paper around that indicate I have a large sum of money easily available. I also withdraw the full available amount, as opposed to $20-40 at a time, which is what I tend to see on those discarded slips.
Point being that the sample is likely misrepresentative.
But individual standards clearly converge, within given societies. I conducted a seminar in this, recently, at a hot singles bar (no shit) where I educated my clients on how boosting and bagging algorithms work, with the example problem of classifying waitresses as whether they were "Hot" or "Not Hot". The relevant point was, we had little difficulty in agreeing as to hotness, as I suspect you and your friends do as well. Objectively, when certain women walk down the street, all male heads turn. Determining the feature set that makes this happen is difficult for people, but I suspect that this is an area where machine learning may actually have an advantage over wetware. 30 opinions, over a reasonable set of data points, might easily produce a sufficient umber of training points.
Rank ordering hotness, now, that's a trickier problem. It's also trickier getting into multi valued solutions, such as NotHot, Hot, and NastyHot.
Sorry, personal computers had been out for a while before IBM's PC. IIRC, Osbourne, Radio Shack and Apple, among others beat IBM to the market. The IBM machine was a step up in many ways, explaining why the others have the market position that they enjoy now. Xerox did invent the GUI and the mouse.
My experience is similar to yours, though I don't have as many datapoints. One that stands out was a contractor who was hired by Marketing. She couldn't get her MacBook to connect to our company email. My guy went down to help her out. The first thing he did was log into the server using his account, which was unfortunately, "EatMe69". Of course it wasn't shown on her screen (asterisks) but she followed his fingers, figured out what his password was, and filed a sexual harassment complaint against him, and almost got him fired.
I think it's interesting watching the debate between you and those who disagree with you. It kind of makes the point that TFA was making.
Every three years? The company I work for has a policy that thou shalt not retain e-mail older than 60 days. It seems like the morons in charge of computer policy do not actually use computers for their daily work.
Look into Crossover. http://www.codeweavers.com/ They provide a good distro of WINE that has been quite reliable in my limited experience with it, as well as a support path, albeit a limited one.
I don't think that's quite right. Quite a few shareholders do want to know, and do care about detailed aspects of the business. These types of things are the essence of detailed fundamental analysis, and knowing these things are what gives good investors an advantage. The better mutual funds' managers are all over this kind of stuff. They are not active managers, but they are active evaluators of management. That's how you try to make money in this space.
And therefore, god knows, they can't possibly do anything useful, access and change data, create systems that provide value to people, benefit from the thinkings around patterns, development methods, or any of those other good things that Real Programmers use. [rolls eyes]
I immediately thought about duck typing when I saw your comment. If a piece of code executes, has logic, accesses/modifies/creates data, could have errors, runs on a computer, etc, I'm not sure what the useful distinction is in deriding it as a script. Heck, which one is Java or C#? Are they compiled or interpreted, for your purposes? I'm mostly a Java guy these days, am I a Programmer, or poser? I also use Perl and Python, does that undo any goodness that I accrue from Java? I used to do a lot of C, does that hang with me, or does it get undone when I type while ($line = )...?
I'm old enough that I can remember the Fortran guys sneering at the Basic guys, much as we see here. At the end of the day, the user didn't care, then as now.
I'm not sure you'll find much that Python can't handle. There are some problems that may need more machine speed, and that's what makes you descend into Java, or C++, or C. But with today's costs for hardware, those are rare, and largely the domain of firmware developers or supercomputing problems. Perl can be pretty handy if you do a lot of text munging (that's a technical term). And it's hard for me to see why a person wouldn't want to pretty comfortable with SQL.
I'd look into Python Frameworks like Django if you want to do web stuff. There's no sense turning your back on an environment you like.
Agreed. Most of us have that sense of proportion. There are only about 30% of the population enthusiastically following the Bush propaganda these days. Unfortunately, Congress has yet to develop some nuts.
"Obviously you have to have FTP and web servers on the same machine, otherwise your hosting customers can't upload their pages."
Alright, I'm no expert, but why do the ftp and http servers need to be the same machine? I maintain an FTP and an SFTP box for a transit point between machines inside separate firewalls. These are used by our consulting team to get files to and from customers. There are no business processes running on either of these machines (and indeed, any file that remains on the machine for more than two hours is swept into a non-visible directory). Their sole purpose is a transfer point. Seems like you could use that.
Have your users use a two step process, where they upload to the ftp machine, and then log into the web server and pull the files down to the http machine. Then any compromise of the ftp machine doesn't affect your core machines. It's a bit more complex, to be sure, but it works for us. I have the advantage of a captive user base who has to use it this way, so I can udnerstand that this might not be acceptable in a hosted environment. But it's kept us out of trouble so far.
You seem to have missed a course in logic. Atheism is simply not believing in a god. It is comparable to you not believing that there is an invisible pink aardvark sitting in the chair next to you. According to your logic, you bear the burden of proof for proving to the rest of us that the chair is indeed empty. We're waiting...
It's always amazing to me that you superstitious folks seem to think that you get to define my beliefs. I don't try to tell you what Christians believe. Please have the same courtesy.
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Sounds like your instructor had you implementing product/SQL features, rather than databases. We were building third normal form dbs without product based foreign key/constraint/RI support from the product in about 1989 (Informix), and building business application db's that were more or less 3NF (often denormed for performance in places) throughout the late 90's with Mysql. Sure, it puts RI checking into the application, which is why constraints are a great feature. But your assertion that you can't go to 3NF without product support for foreign keys seems a bit of a stretch.
And again, if Codd and Date say that the prior definition is what defines a relational database, I think it's safe to say that MySQL has been one from day zero.
Martin,
I advise my clients that MySQL is a reasonable option for their data warehouses on a weekly basis. Your decision does not make me question that advice. I can appreciate your stance, and generally enjoy using your product.
Java is pretty neat, too.
I do like NetBeans.
Um, maybe I missed something when I was snoozing, but how can something that implements SQL not be a 'real' relational database? Seems to me that Codd said, "A relational database is a time-varying collection of data, all of which can be accessed and updated as if they were organized as a collection of tabular time-varying tabular (nonhierarchic) relations of assorted degrees defined on a given set of simple domains." Since he and Date kind of defined the realm, I'm inclined to go along with his definition.
In what way would you assert that MySQL doesn't fit this criterion?
Dunno about Sybase, but it certainly was for informix.
I think the good news is that no few members of the military are starting to express questions themselves about our government and it's goals. This is the first time I am aware of in history when retired generals (Wes Clark first among them) are calling foul on the government in more than isolated cases.
.223 ammo. For now. I, for one, have been stocking up.
BTW, it is legal now for private citizens to purchase AR-15's and
Agreed. I have a pretty gucci setup, and the 12 gauge wire supports the speakers, which are 6 ohm, just fine. I have 25 foot cable runs.
For digital cables, power cleaners, and the rest of their product lineup, Monster's claims are pretty close to fraudulent.
I recently costed out a solar setup for my house, located in Seattle, and with about a 40% contribution from state subsidies, it had only a 32 year payback on my investment. Yep, 32 years. It's not economically feasible, yet. But it will be.
Several times, and the physics of why Monster cables do nothing that plain wire can't do is well understood. Bulk 12 gauge multi strand copper is all you need for the highest end gear, and most people won't be able to tell the difference between that and lamp cord without an oscilloscope.
Or that demand is relatively low for the stolen IDs. The financial institutions are getting quite savvy about detecting and preventing fraudulent transactions. My CC number got stolen two weeks ago. The bank detected the bad transactions within 4 hours and shut the card down. I didn't lose a dime. That's Bank Of America, for anyone who cares.
That may well be because people with more money have are less likely to discard their slips, and to withdraw more money. I'm not inclined to leave pieces of paper around that indicate I have a large sum of money easily available. I also withdraw the full available amount, as opposed to $20-40 at a time, which is what I tend to see on those discarded slips.
Point being that the sample is likely misrepresentative.
But individual standards clearly converge, within given societies. I conducted a seminar in this, recently, at a hot singles bar (no shit) where I educated my clients on how boosting and bagging algorithms work, with the example problem of classifying waitresses as whether they were "Hot" or "Not Hot". The relevant point was, we had little difficulty in agreeing as to hotness, as I suspect you and your friends do as well. Objectively, when certain women walk down the street, all male heads turn. Determining the feature set that makes this happen is difficult for people, but I suspect that this is an area where machine learning may actually have an advantage over wetware. 30 opinions, over a reasonable set of data points, might easily produce a sufficient umber of training points.
Rank ordering hotness, now, that's a trickier problem. It's also trickier getting into multi valued solutions, such as NotHot, Hot, and NastyHot.
Sorry, personal computers had been out for a while before IBM's PC. IIRC, Osbourne, Radio Shack and Apple, among others beat IBM to the market. The IBM machine was a step up in many ways, explaining why the others have the market position that they enjoy now. Xerox did invent the GUI and the mouse.
My experience is similar to yours, though I don't have as many datapoints. One that stands out was a contractor who was hired by Marketing. She couldn't get her MacBook to connect to our company email. My guy went down to help her out. The first thing he did was log into the server using his account, which was unfortunately, "EatMe69". Of course it wasn't shown on her screen (asterisks) but she followed his fingers, figured out what his password was, and filed a sexual harassment complaint against him, and almost got him fired.
I think it's interesting watching the debate between you and those who disagree with you. It kind of makes the point that TFA was making.
I get 10 now, as well. I've been around for a bit, and moderate with some care. Perhaps this is a result of meta-moderation results.
Every three years? The company I work for has a policy that thou shalt not retain e-mail older than 60 days. It seems like the morons in charge of computer policy do not actually use computers for their daily work.
Look into Crossover. http://www.codeweavers.com/ They provide a good distro of WINE that has been quite reliable in my limited experience with it, as well as a support path, albeit a limited one.
I don't think that's quite right. Quite a few shareholders do want to know, and do care about detailed aspects of the business. These types of things are the essence of detailed fundamental analysis, and knowing these things are what gives good investors an advantage. The better mutual funds' managers are all over this kind of stuff. They are not active managers, but they are active evaluators of management. That's how you try to make money in this space.
And therefore, god knows, they can't possibly do anything useful, access and change data, create systems that provide value to people, benefit from the thinkings around patterns, development methods, or any of those other good things that Real Programmers use. [rolls eyes]
I immediately thought about duck typing when I saw your comment. If a piece of code executes, has logic, accesses/modifies/creates data, could have errors, runs on a computer, etc, I'm not sure what the useful distinction is in deriding it as a script. Heck, which one is Java or C#? Are they compiled or interpreted, for your purposes? I'm mostly a Java guy these days, am I a Programmer, or poser? I also use Perl and Python, does that undo any goodness that I accrue from Java? I used to do a lot of C, does that hang with me, or does it get undone when I type while ($line = )...?
I'm old enough that I can remember the Fortran guys sneering at the Basic guys, much as we see here. At the end of the day, the user didn't care, then as now.
I'm not sure you'll find much that Python can't handle. There are some problems that may need more machine speed, and that's what makes you descend into Java, or C++, or C. But with today's costs for hardware, those are rare, and largely the domain of firmware developers or supercomputing problems. Perl can be pretty handy if you do a lot of text munging (that's a technical term). And it's hard for me to see why a person wouldn't want to pretty comfortable with SQL.
I'd look into Python Frameworks like Django if you want to do web stuff. There's no sense turning your back on an environment you like.
Use google much? It seems to work pretty well there.
Agreed. Most of us have that sense of proportion. There are only about 30% of the population enthusiastically following the Bush propaganda these days. Unfortunately, Congress has yet to develop some nuts.
"Obviously you have to have FTP and web servers on the same machine, otherwise your hosting customers can't upload their pages."
Alright, I'm no expert, but why do the ftp and http servers need to be the same machine? I maintain an FTP and an SFTP box for a transit point between machines inside separate firewalls. These are used by our consulting team to get files to and from customers. There are no business processes running on either of these machines (and indeed, any file that remains on the machine for more than two hours is swept into a non-visible directory). Their sole purpose is a transfer point. Seems like you could use that.
Have your users use a two step process, where they upload to the ftp machine, and then log into the web server and pull the files down to the http machine. Then any compromise of the ftp machine doesn't affect your core machines. It's a bit more complex, to be sure, but it works for us. I have the advantage of a captive user base who has to use it this way, so I can udnerstand that this might not be acceptable in a hosted environment. But it's kept us out of trouble so far.
Still pissed about losing that little war, aren't we? Sorry about the empire, too.
You seem to have missed a course in logic. Atheism is simply not believing in a god. It is comparable to you not believing that there is an invisible pink aardvark sitting in the chair next to you. According to your logic, you bear the burden of proof for proving to the rest of us that the chair is indeed empty. We're waiting...
It's always amazing to me that you superstitious folks seem to think that you get to define my beliefs. I don't try to tell you what Christians believe. Please have the same courtesy.