Your analogy is dubious at best. Guns are multi-functional as well.
It is incorrect, for example, that the only use of gun is to kill. Most people who successfully use guns to defend themselves never fire a gun much less kill someone with it.
A gun's sole function is to kill in the same way that an MP3 CD ripper's only purpose is to pirate copyrighted music.
If you can sue a gun maker for the criminal actions of a third party (which has been allowed in U.S. court), why not allow lawsuits against makers of software such as compilers that allow people to manufacture viruses.
Consider the Chicago example. It is illegal to own guns in Chicago. People who want to own a gun but live in Chicago drive to the 'burbs and buy a handgun from a legal dealer their and then transport the gun back to their Chicago residence.
The city is suing gunmakers and dealers saying the dealers are acting in a negligent manner by selling to people they should know are breaking the law.
The same principles could easily be applied to compilers and other software -- by not making sure that the buyers of the software *aren't* going to use it to create viruses, the dealer and manufacturer are negligent.
Or to put it another way, has anyone in the software industry taken any positive steps to make sure criminals *don't* have access to their software? No, they haven't, and that's exactly the grounds that people are going after gun manufacturers in court.
The ironic thing is that ergonomics is still largely pseudoscience. Everybody has ideas but there is still very little hard scientific data on what qualifies as "ergonomic." OSHA is just going to pull standards out of its a--.
I wonder how far they'll take it. Some European countries, for example, have very strict laws regulating the amount of noise that a computer fan can make.
The problem with OSHA as it is currently constituted is that it doesn't balance costs with benefits. Everybody can agree that a regulation that costs $10 and saves $1 million in expenses/lost wages is good, while one that cost $1 million and saves $10 is pointless. The problem is gauging those in the middle.
While the benefits of enforcing ergonomic standards outweigh the costs? I doubt it, personally, but more importantly I have yet to see any evidence from OSHA that it will (remember, btw, that actions such as sitting at a keyboard and typing for 8 hours a day -- which I do at my job -- simply aren't "natural" -- human hand weren't adapted for keyboarding and using a keyboard is always going to be extremely risky).
The only thing self-serving here is CNET. It's interesting this woman writes that:
"I should point out that CNET and other online sites won out by being able to snap up some top IDG editors..."
Won out? This from a company that lost $1.4 million in the nine months ending 9.30.1999? Give me a break.
And at least PC Magazine doesn't run those stupid TV ads I see CNET has all over the tube these days (whoever came up with that campaign theme should get fired).
PC Magazines will survive and thrive. For non-technical users -- i.e. the business folks who got all the scorn, such magazines will always be important. There is still no web site out there that provides easy to digest recommendations about the latest software/hardware for non-Geeks. My mother is not going to read Slashdot or even try to wade through CNet's byzantine navigation to get a printer recommendation when she can go buy any number of PC magazine's annual printer roundup.
Plus, is it just me or are CNET reviews on the extremely short side of things? Most PC Magazines do a pretty good job of answering the questions I have, while CNET usually leaves me asking for more. For example, go look at their pathetic reviews of 3d cards. Usually you get maybe one or two benchmarks vs. one or two competing cards with a 100-125 word review tops. Oh thanks, that was really helpful.
In summary, non-geeks will still need pc magazines, geeks will go to sites like Slashdot, Ars Technica and storage review, and I'm still trying to figure out who the target market is for CNET.
Again, though, an excellent example what you talk about is that polio outbreaks are a direct result of improved sanitation, so where is the/. feature on the tragedy of chlorine-treated water and sewage systems?
I don't think Katz even gets close to understanding the things he purports to write about, which is the real tragedy here.
"Most of our disappointments with technology come when decent people are trying to act constructively - not the war of good with evil as the war of good with good."
I see. The real tragedy isn't that the NSA is using technology to spy on me, but rather that Katz is so bored he has nothing better to do than visit Disney?
I would think the 100 million+ people killed this century by evil people utilizing technology would be a much bigger tragedy (and even then the tragedy is not the technology but the dark side of human nature).
We live in a world where hundreds of millions of people don't get enough to eat and the thing that keeps Katz awake at night is EPCOT? Give me a break.
Napster and gun lawsuits
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Copyright!
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It is interesting that the RIAA suit against the Napster folks is modeled on the silly legal theory behind lawsuits against gun manufacturers -- that a product manfucaturer can be held liable for the actions of those who use a legal product in an illegal way. The Napster folks, like the gun makers, argue there are legal uses for their product and they can't control the illegal activities, but that didn't make a lot of difference in the decision to allow the gun lawsuits to go forward.
Lawsuit proliferation appears to follow Moore's law as well.
Reading Katz's latest piece and remember some of hs previous comments on technology, it seems to me Katz is likely suffering from Tom Brokaw disease.
Brokaw, you will remember, recently wrote a gushing book about the generation that fought and won World War II. Anyway Brokaw laments that Americans no longer have the sort of social cohesion that facing destruction from fascism (and then communism) had. Well duh -- there's nothing like fear of mass destruction to unite people, but neither that fear nor the social cohesion it brings are things to be celebrated in and of themselves.
Katz's Russian couple reminded me of this. One of the major reasons the Soviet empire fell was because, ultimately, they couldn't control the technology. Soviet citizens used everything from photocopiers to VCRs to what have you to spread the message and Gorbachev was unwilling to take the steps necessary to stop this.
Of course in America we don't have that sort of problem so what do we do with our technology? Lots of us download pornography or we spend a weekend like I recently did converting my entire CD collection to MP3 or we play some computer game to fill up the time.
But we don't have any need for any "philosophy" of technology or some need to have some overarching Purpose(TM) except to enjoy our lives, and this seems to really bug people like Katz.
It's the end of the world as we know, and I feel fine.
The domain name PURDUEONLINE.WHATEVER seems to be a pretty clear example of a trademark violation and I doubt you'll prevail in court. Somebody mentioned businesses around universities sporting the school logo/name, but in most cases such businesses pay licensing fees and they reach an agreement to use the name *before* operating for three years.
Not being all that interested in hackers, I've never followed any of the controversies raised by V. and his detractors until today, so let me just give my opinion from that perspective: V.'s reply was very unprofessional and extremely evasive. The fact that he just blows off the opportunity to give a detailed reply to the charges against him is a pathetic attempt to shift the issues (in fact, as he points out, his main goal is simply to piss people off -- yeah, I'd really want to hire this guy to help secure my network0.
That this person has been featured and quoted widely by the press if further evidence of the gullibility of the American press.
All of those claims apply in spades to agriculture. Talk about social upheavals -- agriculture killed more people than any other technological innovation I can think of.
Katz writes:"It also reflects another inherent human trait -- messing the world up.
[quoting from Florman] "We simply cannot make use of coal without killing miners and polluting the air. Neither can we manufacture solar panels without worker fatalities and environmental degradation."
Am I the only one to whom this quote looks like both pointless and obvious? Here's my version of the quote.
"We simply can't have millions of people breathe air into their lungs without people dying from airborne diseases. We can't walk down the stairs without fatalities."
Now that's the Jon Katz article I'm waiting for -- lets take on the oxygen industry and reveal the horrors of our oxygen-dependent society.
It is fascinating that somebody actually posted this explanation of why the case against MS should go the Supreme Court now:
"The case against IBM was in the courts for 10 years..."
And what happened in those 10 years? IBM went from a supposed monopoly position to a point where it made mistake after mistake in responding to upstart Microsoft.
The IBM case is the whole point -- the claims made by Judge Jackson represent a rush to judgment that is just as misguided as the persecution of IBM was.
In any business field you will inevitably have situations where corporations have temporary monopoly-like powers (although I think Jackson seriously underestimates the Mac and Linux platform as alternatives in this case). Government regulation of those temporary situations will lead to far more harm than good, and that's precisely where we're headed here.
It's too bad these students at CMU weren't indicted for their illegal activities rather than just face the mild punishment of having their network access revoked.
It's scum like these students that give the RIAA plenty of horror stories to peddle and will ultimately aid them in their efforts to reign in MP3. I love MP3 -- I've converted about 1,000 CDs I own to MP3 and have them on a file server, but appropriating other people's intellectual property is wrong and will only hurt efforts for open and free standards.
Didn't these idiots ever learn that stealing is wrong?
"Use Opera, use Lynx, use Netscape, use whatever except IE if you value your freedom! Let webmasters know that if they require IE to view their site you will be taking your business elsewhere!"
Huh? Because Netscape sucks when compared to IE I should use it anyway just to spite Microsoft? Give me a break. Sorry but most of us in RL have work to do -- and having Netscape constantly crashing when it comes across some piece of code it doesn't like just isn't worth it (we wouldn't need IE to see some sites if Netscape supported the damn standards!!)
"MS's domination of the dekstop OS market has created an environment that it makes it difficult for new desktop OS's to become viable. A big part of this reason is that developers prefer to develop for markets that have large numbers of users, i.e., potential customers. Customers, equally, don't want to use desktop OS's that lack in the number of applications that they use or plan to use in the future."
Right on Brother. People in this part of their country tend to base their businesses in Chicago rather than my podunk town. Why? Because of network effects -- more people brings more people.
After he's done reaming MS, I hope Jackson goes after big cities to level the competition with us small towners.
A breakup of MS will simply never happen. No matter what Jackson rules MS will tie it up in appeals for years -- where it will almost certainly win. MS will spend more years in appeals court than a person on death row.
I wish I could read the coverage on CNN, but I can't because the Javascript they use crashes my Netscape browser (and on about 30 other sites). Thank goodness I can turn to Microsoft's superior product.
Every time there's a new story about a palm device or technology several people always chime in and say something like "That's stupid -- the point of the Palm platform is its simplicity."
But the point of the Palm platform is quickly becoming simplicity PLUS expandability. Certainly the Palm should not add on all of these features out of the gate -- I want to buy a Palm (or Handspring) that just does the basics.
But I want that expandability option as well. A Palm with a keyboard like this is a great alternative to lugging around a laptop for basic notetaking or word processing.
Re:Welcome to RealWorld(tm)
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NetSlaves
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"What is it--10% of our kids are living without enough to eat?"
No, actually. According to USDA figure less than 1 percent of children ever miss even a single meal in a given year due to lack of food.
The 10% or so is the number of families who are worried about having enough money to buy food.
Hey, I try to make my site easily readible by the blind and others, but in some cases it is simply next to impossible (for example I have audio recordings that I simply don't have the time or money to produce written transcripts accessible to the hearing impaired).
To legally require me to do so is silly. Nobody requires the local newspaper to issue a Braille edition. If I want to create a cutting edge site and leave out the "ALT" tags, that's my right and forcing me to do otherwise is an unconstitutional breech of my rights.
It's not online yet, but the latest copy of the Leftist rag "Mother Jones" has a long article linking FPSs like Quake to Colombine-style killings. There's a classic line in the story about how even though there is still no scientific evidence linking violence and video games, at some point you just have to take it as common sense or somesuch nonsense.
The weird part is his claim that the reason nobody's heard about this before is that Microsoft is a major advertiser in media.
That's weird because I've read several articles highlighting the strange ways that Microsoft and other companies book profits in order to beat Street expectations, just as there have been a number of recent articles on the creative ways Internet startups book all these stock options they give their employees to minimize their future liability (at least on paper).
Slashdot Mirror
Your analogy is dubious at best. Guns are multi-functional as well.
It is incorrect, for example, that the only use of gun is to kill. Most people who successfully use guns to defend themselves never fire a gun much less kill someone with it.
A gun's sole function is to kill in the same way that an MP3 CD ripper's only purpose is to pirate copyrighted music.
If you can sue a gun maker for the criminal actions of a third party (which has been allowed in U.S. court), why not allow lawsuits against makers of software such as compilers that allow people to manufacture viruses.
Consider the Chicago example. It is illegal to own guns in Chicago. People who want to own a gun but live in Chicago drive to the 'burbs and buy a handgun from a legal dealer their and then transport the gun back to their Chicago residence.
The city is suing gunmakers and dealers saying the dealers are acting in a negligent manner by selling to people they should know are breaking the law.
The same principles could easily be applied to compilers and other software -- by not making sure that the buyers of the software *aren't* going to use it to create viruses, the dealer and manufacturer are negligent.
Or to put it another way, has anyone in the software industry taken any positive steps to make sure criminals *don't* have access to their software? No, they haven't, and that's exactly the grounds that people are going after gun manufacturers in court.
The ironic thing is that ergonomics is still largely pseudoscience. Everybody has ideas but there is still very little hard scientific data on what qualifies as "ergonomic." OSHA is just going to pull standards out of its a--.
I wonder how far they'll take it. Some European countries, for example, have very strict laws regulating the amount of noise that a computer fan can make.
The problem with OSHA as it is currently constituted is that it doesn't balance costs with benefits. Everybody can agree that a regulation that costs $10 and saves $1 million in expenses/lost wages is good, while one that cost $1 million and saves $10 is pointless. The problem is gauging those in the middle.
While the benefits of enforcing ergonomic standards outweigh the costs? I doubt it, personally, but more importantly I have yet to see any evidence from OSHA that it will (remember, btw, that actions such as sitting at a keyboard and typing for 8 hours a day -- which I do at my job -- simply aren't "natural" -- human hand weren't adapted for keyboarding and using a keyboard is always going to be extremely risky).
The only thing self-serving here is CNET. It's interesting this woman writes that:
"I should point out that CNET and other online sites won out by being able to snap up some top IDG editors..."
Won out? This from a company that lost $1.4 million in the nine months ending 9.30.1999? Give me a break.
And at least PC Magazine doesn't run those stupid TV ads I see CNET has all over the tube these days (whoever came up with that campaign theme should get fired).
PC Magazines will survive and thrive. For non-technical users -- i.e. the business folks who got all the scorn, such magazines will always be important. There is still no web site out there that provides easy to digest recommendations about the latest software/hardware for non-Geeks. My mother is not going to read Slashdot or even try to wade through CNet's byzantine navigation to get a printer recommendation when she can go buy any number of PC magazine's annual printer roundup.
Plus, is it just me or are CNET reviews on the extremely short side of things? Most PC Magazines do a pretty good job of answering the questions I have, while CNET usually leaves me asking for more. For example, go look at their pathetic reviews of 3d cards. Usually you get maybe one or two benchmarks vs. one or two competing cards with a 100-125 word review tops. Oh thanks, that was really helpful.
In summary, non-geeks will still need pc magazines, geeks will go to sites like Slashdot, Ars Technica and storage review, and I'm still trying to figure out who the target market is for CNET.
Again, though, an excellent example what you talk about is that polio outbreaks are a direct result of improved sanitation, so where is the /. feature on the tragedy of chlorine-treated water and sewage systems?
I don't think Katz even gets close to understanding the things he purports to write about, which is the real tragedy here.
"Most of our disappointments with technology come when decent people are trying to act constructively - not the war of good with evil as the war of good with good."
I see. The real tragedy isn't that the NSA is using technology to spy on me, but rather that Katz is so bored he has nothing better to do than visit Disney?
I would think the 100 million+ people killed this century by evil people utilizing technology would be a much bigger tragedy (and even then the tragedy is not the technology but the dark side of human nature).
We live in a world where hundreds of millions of people don't get enough to eat and the thing that keeps Katz awake at night is EPCOT? Give me a break.
It is interesting that the RIAA suit against the Napster folks is modeled on the silly legal theory behind lawsuits against gun manufacturers -- that a product manfucaturer can be held liable for the actions of those who use a legal product in an illegal way. The Napster folks, like the gun makers, argue there are legal uses for their product and they can't control the illegal activities, but that didn't make a lot of difference in the decision to allow the gun lawsuits to go forward.
Lawsuit proliferation appears to follow Moore's law as well.
Reading Katz's latest piece and remember some of hs previous comments on technology, it seems to me Katz is likely suffering from Tom Brokaw disease.
Brokaw, you will remember, recently wrote a gushing book about the generation that fought and won World War II. Anyway Brokaw laments that Americans no longer have the sort of social cohesion that facing destruction from fascism (and then communism) had. Well duh -- there's nothing like fear of mass destruction to unite people, but neither that fear nor the social cohesion it brings are things to be celebrated in and of themselves.
Katz's Russian couple reminded me of this. One of the major reasons the Soviet empire fell was because, ultimately, they couldn't control the technology. Soviet citizens used everything from photocopiers to VCRs to what have you to spread the message and Gorbachev was unwilling to take the steps necessary to stop this.
Of course in America we don't have that sort of problem so what do we do with our technology? Lots of us download pornography or we spend a weekend like I recently did converting my entire CD collection to MP3 or we play some computer game to fill up the time.
But we don't have any need for any "philosophy" of technology or some need to have some overarching Purpose(TM) except to enjoy our lives, and this seems to really bug people like Katz.
It's the end of the world as we know, and I feel fine.
The domain name PURDUEONLINE.WHATEVER seems to be a pretty clear example of a trademark violation and I doubt you'll prevail in court. Somebody mentioned businesses around universities sporting the school logo/name, but in most cases such businesses pay licensing fees and they reach an agreement to use the name *before* operating for three years.
Not being all that interested in hackers, I've never followed any of the controversies raised by V. and his detractors until today, so let me just give my opinion from that perspective: V.'s reply was very unprofessional and extremely evasive. The fact that he just blows off the opportunity to give a detailed reply to the charges against him is a pathetic attempt to shift the issues (in fact, as he points out, his main goal is simply to piss people off -- yeah, I'd really want to hire this guy to help secure my network0.
That this person has been featured and quoted widely by the press if further evidence of the gullibility of the American press.
All of those claims apply in spades to agriculture. Talk about social upheavals -- agriculture killed more people than any other technological innovation I can think of.
Katz writes:"It also reflects another inherent human trait -- messing the world up.
[quoting from Florman] "We simply cannot make use of coal without killing miners and polluting the air. Neither can we manufacture solar panels without worker fatalities and environmental degradation."
Am I the only one to whom this quote looks like both pointless and obvious? Here's my version of the quote.
"We simply can't have millions of people breathe air into their lungs without people dying from airborne diseases. We can't walk down the stairs without fatalities."
Now that's the Jon Katz article I'm waiting for -- lets take on the oxygen industry and reveal the horrors of our oxygen-dependent society.
It is fascinating that somebody actually posted this explanation of why the case against MS should go the Supreme Court now:
"The case against IBM was in the courts for 10 years..."
And what happened in those 10 years? IBM went from a supposed monopoly position to a point where it made mistake after mistake in responding to upstart Microsoft.
The IBM case is the whole point -- the claims made by Judge Jackson represent a rush to judgment that is just as misguided as the persecution of IBM was.
In any business field you will inevitably have situations where corporations have temporary monopoly-like powers (although I think Jackson seriously underestimates the Mac and Linux platform as alternatives in this case). Government regulation of those temporary situations will lead to far more harm than good, and that's precisely where we're headed here.
It's too bad these students at CMU weren't indicted for their illegal activities rather than just face the mild punishment of having their network access revoked.
It's scum like these students that give the RIAA plenty of horror stories to peddle and will ultimately aid them in their efforts to reign in MP3. I love MP3 -- I've converted about 1,000 CDs I own to MP3 and have them on a file server, but appropriating other people's intellectual property is wrong and will only hurt efforts for open and free standards.
Didn't these idiots ever learn that stealing is wrong?
"Use Opera, use Lynx, use Netscape, use whatever except IE if you value your freedom! Let webmasters know that if they require IE to view their site you will be taking your business elsewhere!"
Huh? Because Netscape sucks when compared to IE I should use it anyway just to spite Microsoft? Give me a break. Sorry but most of us in RL have work to do -- and having Netscape constantly crashing when it comes across some piece of code it doesn't like just isn't worth it (we wouldn't need IE to see some sites if Netscape supported the damn standards!!)
Interesting that anytime MS or some other evildoer gives their side of the story, the simple act of their doing so makes some Linux geek sick.
"MS's domination of the dekstop OS market has created an environment that it makes it difficult for new desktop OS's to become viable. A big part of this reason is that developers prefer to develop for markets that have large numbers of users, i.e., potential customers. Customers, equally, don't want to use desktop OS's that lack in the number of applications that they use or plan to use in the future."
Right on Brother. People in this part of their country tend to base their businesses in Chicago rather than my podunk town. Why? Because of network effects -- more people brings more people.
After he's done reaming MS, I hope Jackson goes after big cities to level the competition with us small towners.
Fight the power!!!
A breakup of MS will simply never happen. No matter what Jackson rules MS will tie it up in appeals for years -- where it will almost certainly win. MS will spend more years in appeals court than a person on death row.
I wish I could read the coverage on CNN, but I can't because the Javascript they use crashes my Netscape browser (and on about 30 other sites). Thank goodness I can turn to Microsoft's superior product.
Every time there's a new story about a palm device or technology several people always chime in and say something like "That's stupid -- the point of the Palm platform is its simplicity."
But the point of the Palm platform is quickly becoming simplicity PLUS expandability. Certainly the Palm should not add on all of these features out of the gate -- I want to buy a Palm (or Handspring) that just does the basics.
But I want that expandability option as well. A Palm with a keyboard like this is a great alternative to lugging around a laptop for basic notetaking or word processing.
"What is it--10% of our kids are living without enough to eat?"
No, actually. According to USDA figure less than 1 percent of children ever miss even a single meal in a given year due to lack of food.
The 10% or so is the number of families who are worried about having enough money to buy food.
Hey, I try to make my site easily readible by the blind and others, but in some cases it is simply next to impossible (for example I have audio recordings that I simply don't have the time or money to produce written transcripts accessible to the hearing impaired).
To legally require me to do so is silly. Nobody requires the local newspaper to issue a Braille edition. If I want to create a cutting edge site and leave out the "ALT" tags, that's my right and forcing me to do otherwise is an unconstitutional breech of my rights.
"Of all places, a site that prides itself on the prinicple of equality and freedom of the net should recognze this."
Huh? When was this site dedicated to the principle of equality and freedom?
They ran Katz's article defending Peter "Lets kill the defectives" Singer, so you shouldn't be all that surprised at the attitude toward the blind.
It's not online yet, but the latest copy of the Leftist rag "Mother Jones" has a long article linking FPSs like Quake to Colombine-style killings. There's a classic line in the story about how even though there is still no scientific evidence linking violence and video games, at some point you just have to take it as common sense or somesuch nonsense.
"I always like reading about iconoclasts, because at least I know there are people out there questioning even our basic assumptions."
So you enjoy reading about the Flat Earth Society, Creationists and Immanuel Velikovsky?
Questioning assumptions is easy -- any crackpot can do that. (Being correct, now there's where the meat is).
The weird part is his claim that the reason nobody's heard about this before is that Microsoft is a major advertiser in media.
That's weird because I've read several articles highlighting the strange ways that Microsoft and other companies book profits in order to beat Street expectations, just as there have been a number of recent articles on the creative ways Internet startups book all these stock options they give their employees to minimize their future liability (at least on paper).
This is nothing new or surprising.