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NetSlaves
Finally. Amidst the ongoing tidal wave of Net hype, here's "NetSlaves," by Bill Lessard and Steve Baldwin, which hits like a buck of ice water splashed in the face.
If you read newspapers, books, or follow Net-business coverage on TV, you might well think work on the Net is mostly about the billionaires who found Hotmail or Yahoo or Netscape, or the clean, benefit-laced, campus-like work environments they provide. You'd have no way of knowing the much more pervasive and unnerving reality: for every one of those there's a zillion companies that come into the world still-born, fail miserably, make and sell crummy stuff, and hire countless miserable, exploited, harassed and burned-out programmers, techies, geeks and nerds.
Baldwin and Lessard are combat veterans of the Net, both in terms of writing and personal experience. They are also long-standing Truth Tellers.
In addition to writing about computing for a number of magazines and websites, they also run the guerilla website NetSlaves, a running testimonial to real life for many in the hi-tech workplace.
"NetSlaves" is a terrific extension of the site, one of the few books to come off of a website that really works as a book. Lessard and Baldwin have a powerful story to tell, and they do it with a lot of punch. "NetSlaves" ought to be handed out to every graduate of every tech school, and given to every new employee of every Net company.
Baldwin and Lessard say their grand "pre-alpha" statement about the Nature of Net-Slavery is this:
"Technology has changed, but human nature hasn't. Whether it's the Gold Rush of 1849 or the Web Rush of l999, people are people. More often than not, they're miserable, nasty, selfish creatures, driven by vanity and greed, doing whatever they can to get ahead, even if it means stepping on the person next to them, crushing the weak, and destroying themselves in the process."
The authors don't have a particularly high regard for many forms of Net work, which they lambaste as the New Media Caste System, but they care about Net workers, and the book is curiously affectionate, even loving about them, as well as a hoot to read.
Both concede that one of their purposes in writing "NetSlaves" is to have the book serve as a quasi-historical, quasi-anthropological reflection of a particular moment in the culture.
Although the tone of "NetSlaves" is informal and funny, the point is pretty serious. "NetSlaves" has done what legions of reporters and authors have so far failed to do: paint a truthful picture of about the new nature of work in the techno-centered world.
For all of the media blabber about Net commerce and hi-tech startups, life in this fast lane can be brutal - insane hours, almost no employee-employer loyalty, greed and moral cowardice, help-desk geeks driven mad by enraged customers, back-stabbing, savage pressure, competiveness and the many resultant neuroses from all of the above.
Baldwin and Lessard make no pretense of objectivity. They write with almost ferocious authority and persuasiveness. They describe themselves as "two angry, cranky bastards out for blood" on behalf of their exhausted selves and the countless burnouts, geniuses, thieves, opportunists, workaholics and losers they've encountered along the way.
"NetSlaves" gives us a whole new language for the villains and back-stabbers who make up the hi-tech workplace. Particular venom is reserved for the "Fry Cooks," the "get it done at all costs" project people of the New Media Caste System. (There's also the "Garbagemen," the workers who have to get servers up and running when they crash).
My favorite chapter is about the "Cab Drivers," the haunted and hunted itinerant Web freelancers who design sites, followed closely by "Gold Diggers and Gigolos," a scathing portrait of the ambitious, night-crawling, hard-partying, butt-kissing movers and shakers and wannabees of hi-tech work world.
"Most Web sites are designed by itinerant, restless young people who have given up the constraints of working for one company in particular, in exchange for the self-determination of pursuing their own path. The rationale is that they can earn a higher hourly rate and pick and choose their projects.
"The reality, however," write Lessard and Baldwin, "is that these Cab Drivers have to constantly hustle for work and their passengers, or clients, who are also cash-crunched, are notorious for skipping out on their fares. Added to this is the lack of health benefits that Cab Drivers face - a plight which has forced many to simply neglect themselves." This is a world in which workers are terrified or despondent when forced to take a few weeks off, convinced they'll fall behind forever.
"NetSlaves" succeeds wonderfully in its goal to tell the truth about a particular culture at a critical juncture in time. It is, in fact one of the few telling looks inside the new kinds of workplaces springing up in the hi-tech, global economy. Workers beware.
Without a doubt, the Net will continue to grow and prosper. But if you even think about working there, read this book first.
Pick this book at fatbrain.
Or you could set the building on fire.
Anyone who has enough time to be reading Slashdot from work shouldn't be whining about how hard their high tech carrier is. :) Try landscaping sometime.
I know what you mean by sysadmins being treated as janitors. When I was getting started in the industry, I worked a stint as a sysadmin at a santa clara startup (which eventually went under). I'll never forget my disbelief at the email I received one day, informing me that the toilet was stopped up in the women's bathroom, would I please go fix it. Those people had no idea what I actually did all day, except when I was called on to fix one of their braindead stunts (like the time a guy deleted C:\*.* on his Windows3.1 box because he was running out of disk space and didn't know that all that crap in his root directory was important).
Things do get better, though. After a few years in the industry, intelligence, familiarity with the technology, and hard work will earn you a well-respected position (or an invisible one, which is sometimes better).
-- Guges --
I suggest fire bombing all the exits before the alarm goes off. Alternatively get a sniper rifle & phosphorous bullets and shoot them in the knees as they run out.
Life is definately not bad if you're a developer. But of course, we have the sysadmins to support us. hehehehe
Hey, anybody stupid enough in this day and age to work for a company (ie: NOT be a contractor) deserves what they get.
I'm amazed at how many people see doing this as an invitation to be fired. I have a simple policy that I adhere to religiously - if I'm at work, I'm getting paid for it; if I'm not getting paid, I'm not at work. I have had numerous people ask me how I get away with this; most of them are flabbergasted to find out that I just tell my boss that's how it is. Despite the gloom and doom I keep hearing will befall me, I have yet to have a boss who's had a problem with it (I should qualify that; I've had a couple that have tried to get me to work longer for same pay, but when I flat out tell them no they've always dropped it). Maybe I've just been lucky.
It is possible to preserve your rights and continue to benefit from the high-tech boom, although it nearly always means that you must go contract/hourly to keep your employers from abusing you. And the author is right. When your employer demands more than you're willing to give, don't be afraid to tell them no. They're prepared to do the same to you anyway.
I'm a full time web app developer, and let me tell you, this book has it all wrong. Life is great. As many jobs as I can shake a stick at, and they all want to pay me outrageous money. I work when I want, where I want, how I want, and only as much as I want. I call the shots, and I leave if I don't get to call the shots. I have no responsibility, but I get paid more than the people who do. Maybe life sucks for sysadmins (according to what I've been reading here), but that's what you get for being a button-clicker. This book isn't about sysadmins, anyway.
Abe, ABE...
Whaddya doing back on slashdot ALREADY?
Hey, I'm going to contract for EDS! That's what you get for working permanent!
Oh my God.. Do we work for the same company or something?? Yep, my contract is over today and I loved this job. Now it's back to helpdesk hell at the other job.. IT jobs are really hit and miss. Some are wonderful, others not.
You should be able to easily find another job in this day and in this industry. If you can't then you need to revisit your skill set. I turn down jobs daily (literally), and I'm only 3 years ou of college. I have more money than I know what to do with. Maybe, if you're that worried about keeping a job, you're not doing something right...
Good point. I love getting a new job every month or so. Keeps me from getting (very) bored. Besides, the money's grrrrreat!
A much more intelligent view of the internet hyper economy and the VCs and players and trade shows that keep the money-go-round turning (for now).
To those that think that "working for yourself" is a solution.. forget that, you swap one master (a boss) for another (your creation), which unless you are planning on building lego models for your own use, will end up demanding just as much attention at 3 in the morning as any pager or corporate status report would..
The IT industry has a worker shortage: thanks to the big software companies for making software unreliable, and making companies always wanting to change things.
So you have a choice. If you look hard enough you should be able to find a decent job in a decent company.
There will always be people who will never be happy wherever they are. Whichever way things go they will whine and whine and whine. Give them a million dollars they will be happy for a month then they'll be back to whining, give them a billion dollars, same thing.
Underpaid? Heck everybody is underpaid. Remember if you chasing after money, you may get it and nothing much else. If you can be happy with that fine, but if not then you should adjust your priorities. Money should be your tool, not the other way around.
Life's short. It's probably better to make more friends than make more money.
As a fellow contractor for the past 3 years, I can only say that I agree wholeheartedly.
Every few months we hear about the plight of the downtrodden techies. Guess what? If you don't like your job, you can get a new one! This is a good field to work in if you have a brain and drive to make something of yourself. Since moving into the IS field a year ago I've worked 3 different jobs, each a step up in pay and/or opportunity. I started in end-user tech support, moved to internal help desk now work as a Unix systems analyst and soon will start a new job as a Solaris admin/Perl programmer. I'm doing work I want to do, learning new skills, making good money and my stress level has dropped like a rock. If I don't like my job on a particular day, I go to lunch at Wendy's and see what other people are doing for much less money. If I don't like my job at all, I put my resume on the web and wait for the calls to roll in. But don't expect the fun jobs and good money to drop into your lap because you work in computers. You have to keep learning and expanding your skills. You have to go looking for the jobs you want to do, and you have to pay your dues to get there. Read "What Color Is Your Parachute" and find out what's involved in getting the job you want, or even knowing what job you want. If you don't like what you're doing, don't do it! Find something else! Get some education and get a better job! Or you could always go work at McDonald's. Super size it, please.
If you had STUCK THROUGH COLLEGE, you would not be in that situation.
The reason is: you may have "skills", but the skillset changes monthly in this biz. With a college education you would have obtained knowledge and a methodology that would serve you better.
So all you kids who are thinking about dropping out or not going to college at all (because you don't "learn anything in school"), think again.
You want a job, I want a career.
I made a couple hundred grand on stock last year (and am spending it gleefully) over and above 120k salary. Being a programmer is kewl.
Then you're lucky.
Although many people aren't abused by their employers, enough are to produce a lot of whining. And it may be justified, but it is still whining, in the end.
I think it has to do with the nature of the job market. Consider that high-tech workers are in short supply for most locations, but they require no certification or education. So, this means that there is a demand for work, but the people doing the work aren't always professionals, or college educated. So although there is a demand for high-tech workers, it can be hard to get a job because there is no standard level of training or qualifications, other then years of experience. Because of the need to do a lot of work, and because companies are slow to hire enough people to do the work, fewer people do more work in the geek-fields.
Or at least, that is the phenomenon I have observed. I hope that idea makes sense.
I've been working in the Software industry in the Midwest for a while now and frankly it's great. I get paid well for doing something interesting. Of course the Software industry is more mature than Net business and I think that helps. I've got nothing to complain about the actual job or work. It would be nice, however, if the media didn't make it sound like everyone in Hi-Tech is making tons of money. No matter how well I'm doing it seems like everything thinks I should be doing a whole lot better. I've worked for 4 companies in the last 8 years and there is always someone who's putting on the pressure to look for a better job. Or comments from in-laws that seem to suggest "Hey, you've been working in software for 8 years and you havn't started a company, IPO'd and made 100 million? What's wrong with you." So at least for this geek the work is great, but I could stand to lose the hype.
I was all set to buy the book until I read the . Can anyone who's read the book say whether it's better than the site?
I agree 100%. If you allow others to control you, you will never be happy. At best you will be miserable, at worst the others who control your life will subtly distort it so you're terrified of anything that will change the status quo.
You *must* take control of your own life. It's not easy - the people who have been exploiting you will ramp up their efforts (e.g., guilt trips seem particularly popular), and you'll probably get torqued when you realize just how many ways people and companies try to manipulate you, but the results are well worth it.
But my reality has been quite a bit different. I NEVER work more than 40 hours, have fun writing software on my Linux box (coding is what I do while waiting for the next Slashdot page to load :-)), and get paid quite well. And I've been doing this for around 20 years (well, not the Slashdot part; I used to waste time reading USENET, playing Rogue, Zork, Adventure... wow, I'm pretty old!) True, I haven't made the big killing on stock options. I just think of them like an annual gift of lottery tickets. The key is to work on stable, predictable platforms, with "predictable" being the key word. My observation is that the people killing themselves are usually dealing with fussy MS stuff, which appears to work, but then fails randomly.
Law firms in NYC are pretty bad hour-wise (been there, done that for 7+ of years) and, unfortunately, for most big-firm lawyers, the hours never really stop with seniority. Even worse than tech careers, however, is that job-hopping is a real resume-spoiler, making that escape-route something one should think long and hard about using. Additionally, I have to believe that techies have much more subject-matter interest in their field than most lawywers. I think their are a couple problems with the tech field: 1. With respect to start-ups, it is easy to be seduced by the theoretical potential for tremendous upside. This principle operates in law firms and investment banks -- partners and managing directors make more than $1 million/yr, but, in many institutions, less than 1 out of 20 new hires ever make it to that level (and most of those that do don't seem particularly happy). Unfortunately, people are notoriously bad at making judgments as to the valuation of high payoff/low probability events (think of lotteries), particularly when the subjects are as complex as "will I make partner" or "will my start up IPO". Before devoting one's life to any such situation, one must get as much information as possible and be as realistic in evaluating that information. It's pretty sad to see a junior associate at a law firm pulling all-nighters on thankless, boring work when there is no hope of him ever seeing any reward for it (beyond his current and, admittedly high salary -- big New York firms pay 25 yr olds straight out of law school (who are not very useful as lawywers, to be perfectly honest) more than $100,000/yr). I imagine that it is even more pathetic to see people in a hopeless start-up kill themselves for little or no salary and shares or options that are never going to be worth anything. 2. Computers (programming, etc.), though potentially (depending on the subfield) far more intellectually complex than law (I know both securities law and C++ very well, and programming well in C++ is alot more complex), is something people can develop proficiency at when they are quite young -- perhaps this is because the concepts are much more abstract, whereas law requires too much knowledge of particulars. Also, computer knowledge is (thankfully) readily obtainable on-line and in bookstores, and there is not much of a formalized credentialing process. To practice law, of course, requires attendence of 3 years of law school, bar membership, etc., which has the effect of reducing competition and gives one a sense of one's self as a professional. Thus, computer workers can be profitably exploited when they are younger and have less of a sense of themselves, their worth, workplace politics, etc. 3. I also think that techies love of their field, while great (and, in a way, an alternate form of compensation), has a way of depressing their wages -- if someone loves something enough to do it for free, why pay them that much for it. (Perhaps this explains why lawyers get paid so much.) I think artists, actors, and similar creative types face the same problem. Unfortunately, there are no easy answers to getting a good job, whether in tech, law or any other field, and the task is made extra difficult if other workers in the field (who are, in effect, your competitors in the labor market) are willing to accept less. I would encourage the tech workers out there to take as much advantage of the current labor shortage as possible while it lasts, and to stand up more for their rights in the workplace and, if that doesn't work, to find a better position elsewhere.
I'm a web developer for a pre-IPO company with about 150 employees.
I have no problems with what I do. I come in about 9:30, and usually take off between 4 and 5 every day. (when I don't feel like working from home)
There's the occasional over-nighter, but those are usually self-inflicted.
And noone here has even asked me to work on a weekend.
Sure, I'm underpaid. But I'm also over qualified.
I accept it, simply for the environment.
Nice essay, good points, ought to be marked up.
Well, this is the problem, isn't it? Other publications have solved the opposition between the need for revenue and the equally important need to maintain editorial standards, so why can't slashdot? After all, its production costs are much lower than those of a print publication. Alas, I suspect that Rob & co. were, at least at first, just too naive to see what Katz is up to. Now, of course, slashdot is corporate property, and no executive is going to fire such a brilliant bullshit merchant. After all, it seems that bullshit attracts the most hits and comments on slashdot (including this comment, ironically -- but at least I'm using lynx, so they won't make any money out of me). Katz is "on-board", and there's unlikely to be any chance of shifting him until he finds a more attractive bandwagon to use.
Yeah. My options hit the 7 figure mark this year. I love to see contractors coming and going with no options.
Its like being an offensive lineman in football. No one knows your name or even cares. Just keep those damn guys from knocking out your starting QB.
Thought you might like to hear something from the non-tech (or at least former non-tech) side of the fence...
/. and even reply when the fit takes me...
I'm a former music major (all the way to an MFA in Music Composition) who found myself needing work skills to live rather than survive. I fell back on my experience with computers, which goes back to writing simple BASIC stuff on Apple II+'s and TRS-80's that loaded up programs via cassette. After a few inquiries, I decided to get a CNE. Shortly after this I landed a help desk job with a contractor and proceeded to establish a career as a tech support guy in various jobs in the Bay Area. During the whole time, I very seldom worked overtime. I also did not get paid much either, but each job paid a little more than the last one and my skills increased accordingly.
Now I am a full time IS Manager/sysadmin, working for a non-profit below market rates, and I don't feel guilty about coming in late or leaving early, because the company really is getting their moneys' worth from me. I do what needs to be done, and then I can go home. I'd rather have a job like this than a 24 X 7 availability, pager on the forehead type job, regardless of pay. Occasionally I've had to stay late (overnight) to fix problems on the network, and I do this willingly, but once I'm done I take the next day off. Period. I refuse to let myself be taken advantage of, and those people who do let themselves be slaves (That previous comment about pleasing your bosses as surrogate parents is especially significant). Though I may not make as much money as a high powered, high pressured tech might, I'm having a life outside of work (read: music)that I really enjoy. And hey, the work isn't all that hard. I have time to check out the posts on
I have met brilliant people, worked on a high exposure web site, and became significantly wealthy. All before 30. How can you knock this? Even if the hours are shitty, I'm quite blessed to be in my situation. Who wants 9 to 5 anyway? Beats watching TV, and there is always new coding to be done.
There is no surplus if you don't use some of the money set aside for social security. The politicians have already spent everything (big surprise)
Jeez people, at least you have options.
It's unseemly to complain about being better off than most of the workforce.
I'm a programmer now, but I remember what it was like to dig swimming pools for rich people because I had absolutely no skills. The worked sucked, the bosses sucked, I was in physical danger if I offended any of the rough dudes, and on top of it all, I couldn't see any way out.
I'm betting that most of you folks went to college too. There's a million things you could do if don't like IT. My great grandfather died with coal dust in his lungs. I bet he would happily take your job and your bosses' abuse.
It makes me sick to here you complain about your boss being insensitive to your needs. At least he's not trying to intimidate you into buying crack for him or performing sexual favors for his buddies.
Not and A.C. and this is not flamebait.
There is currently a labor shortage of IS workers in this country. YOU have the choice about who you work for, under what conditions, where, and for how much. If you don't like your job, leave it for a better one, with more pay. Last time I went job searching I posted my resume on monster.com, had 5 phone calls from 5 contracting agencies within 5 hours of the posting, all asking me to let them find me a job.
I'm a UNIX admin for a large company, and I love my job. I accepted "pager duty" and a few long nights here and there as part of the job, I was told this in the interview right up front. I get respect from my peers, and respect from my bosses, simply by displaying competence and professionalism with what I do. They value me, because they know that good sysadmins are hard to find. I have no college degree and I'm overjoyed that I have found a place for myself without needing one.
I really think the amount of respect you get is largely a function of your attitude, professionalism, and people skills. You do not have to kiss ass to get ahead. You can make a PHB really happy if you show them a way to save money on thier budget. Display an understanding not only of your technology, but of how and where it fits into what is important for the business. If you have to fight a fire you are not a janitor cleaning up a mess. You are the hero who saves the day, when no one else can! It's up to you to make them see you this way.
Stress will be a part of this, any position of importance and responsibility will be stressfull at times, learn to deal with it, and find healthy outlets.
I have seen so many geek types (friends of mine) ruin thier own environment, with whining, slacker, anti-social, irresponsible, cry-baby attitudes. A business is not a democracy. You will be flat out given orders at times, if you're given an order that is wrong or causes a problem, politely express that you disagree and make sure people know to hold the order giver responsible for the mess, not you. They'll listen to you the next time.
Respect is earned, not given. If you don't like your job, find a better one first, then grin ear to ear when you tell your current boss to shove it.
Remember, its all a silly game of greed and money, everyone, ultimately is out for themself. Don't ever expect a corporation to value a human being more than thier stock price. Reap the rewards of how valuable and marketable you truely are, be good at what you do, and if you can't hack it, get lost, you'll just make those of us who can more valuable.
--Chris (spam@sentient.dhs.org)
Keep it up!
Just wanted to let you know that your story is very similiar to mine. I'm now 30 and I do contracting work at home, with no brokers. I set my hours, choose my jobs, and get paid pretty well for a college dropout.
The secret is to get a reputation for being the person who can "make it happen". That's a rare commodity and you'll make loyal clients everytime if you keep it up. Personality counts for a lot too.
And no, I never went back to college.
mix in a paragraph...
where then did men obtain knowledge before college was invented?
Middle-Class Americans enjoy one of the highest standards of livings in the world. In more densly populated places like Euorpe and Japan the standard of living is lower. UN reports show with population increases the US standard of living will go down over the next 100 years. Enjoy it while you can and stop bitching. Try living in England the size of CA with 80-million people where basic fuel, food, living, etc.. is much higher yet the wages are not. Fat pigs we are. Book like this is for people living in glass houses.
This brings up an interesting possibility....if all the techies who have been working 50-60-70 hours a week suddenly decide to work 35, what would happen? Companies would have to hire more techies to pick up the slack. Only there aren't any more techies to hire. They'll have to bid them away from somewhere else.....we would end up making more money by working less. We'll be RICH! RICH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FILTHY STINKING RICH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -pop- (sound of bubble economy bursting).....oh well, it was fun to think about........guess I'm going back to the server farm......
"Netslaves" is a great book, but also depressing!
:)
Until now, I just assumed that at any time I could give up database applications programming and start making lots of money for a web company.
Whoa, was I wrong!
I also really liked "Burn Rate" by Wolff
Guess I'll keep playing the lottery!
Tom Rombouts, Torrance, CA
to keep down the pain. dont worry the doctors said its OK. and you dont want to be a god damned sissy! soeone might think youre gay!
When I worked at K-mart, I never got tipped once, I did have my supervisor come down on me for ringing up orders too slowly. However, I am not "pathetically greatful" or ready to "kiss the floor" at my current job, because if my bosses thought I was "pathetically greatful" they'd never give me a raise, or time off, or anything else. They need me, and I gently remind them of it now and then, without seeming arrogant. They aren't bad people, but they have a budget and if they think they can pay me less or that I'll work long hours, they'll do it and spend the money on IIS instead of using Apache. (Some kind of MS fetish among the higher ups...)
Painfully aware that my netslave job was barely meeting my car payments, I attended an interview at a local ISP. Some woman shoved an NT test infront of me and then went and abused some programmers. I thought all ISPs used Linux, BSD or Solaris so I kind of freaked. They started giving me this run down on how everything was controlled by code written in VB. They were actually kind of proud of it. I explained that I was a computing professional and I was sorry I had wasted their time and politely left as fast as I could. Unless I want a job as an NT monkey I guess I'll be stuck with looking after oracle, linux and netware, web servers, desktop support, hardware etc for the wage of a first year teacher for awhile. The tough thing about being a netslave is liking it.
'My other piece of advice, Copperfield,' said Mr. Micawber, 'you know. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery. The blossom is blighted, the leaf is withered, the god of day goes down
upon the dreary scene, and - and in short you are for ever floored. As I am!'
That's disturbing. I happen to agree somewhat with their position, and in fact distrusting corporate America is one thing I actually see eye to eye with Katz on, but that's _bad_. It lowers the tone of an argument that desperately needs to be made properly.
In particular, what jumped out in your words were 'trap of stock options'- I strongly agree, as this is a major abuse in many many ways- it's an accounting loophole tantamount to fraud, it's a means of paying employees in vapor, and most insidiously it's a means of getting employees to have a vested personal interest in destroying competition and capitalism, because valuation will inevitably be _lower_ in a healthy economic situation with actual choice available. It's a potent bribe to get people to do anything up to and including breaking the law in efforts to make their company eradicate all competition, and it doesn't reward honest effort disproportionately to dishonest exploits. And these book-writing clowns have not even thought of this?
As for collective bargaining, in a sense that's what the GPL is. "We'll benefit you _if_ you keep to the bargain." If they don't know about this stuff they are very ill suited to writing a book on any form of labor abuse...
*sigh* I think I'm turning into a small business libertarian, operative words 'small business'. There are just SO MANY mechanisms in the current state of the economy that assume a mystical trickle-down theory that fscking doesn't work, didn't in the 80s and didn't in the 90s and still doesn't. This 'prosperity' people talk of happens to be one with unemployment levels comparable to those of the Great Depression. Entire categories of Americans are simply thrown away, don't count. And guess what? The reason companies are beginning to choke and starve and savage each other is because of a lack of trickle-UP... starving homeless people _CAN'T!_ buy consumer products. They can maybe steal them, and that's even worse for the economy. The trickle has to go both ways or nothing works- you can't either give everything to the rich and expect anything to work, or give everything to the poor either. You've got to balance it out, and I see America still doing some of that, since as far back as 'New Deal' social reform, and I see idiot college randite kids arguing like mad that even that should be stopped.
Well, with luck the judge will release findings of fact today. Here's hoping that he slams MS, and be ready to sell every stock you've got on Monday, because MS now is built into every major stock index, and you're looking at a crash that will take your head clean off. The fantasy is over, reality is coming to call, and the rich can now share in some of the Great Depression that they are currently ignoring completely because it only happened to the poor.
I've had to stand in a bread line. In my town, storefronts are going up for rent like it was property leprosy, and nobody is renting them, either. What is the figure, something like 20% of city minority groups unemployed? While I grew up, the employment rates for _my_ age group consistently were worse than those of the Great Depression my grandparents lived through.
THIS IS the Depression. Suck it up and deal. And think again about quitting or coding less than 60 hours a week >:) in fact, hadn't you better up it to 80? If you don't there are about 600 starving people who would love to replace you >:)
I would love to [refuse to work less], but if I don't, the company will find some schmuck that will. And quite likely, some schmuck that will do it for less money. That is the way of the world.
As long as you believe that is true, it is true. Don't want to risk getting fired this way? Job hunt on the side on the sly, and make sure any potential new employers aren't demanding ridiculous hours. You may find that they'll pay you more to work less than you are now.
I've worked in IT for 6 years and never worked much beyond 40 hours a week. And I don't plan to start. Ok, I am a C++ guru, but even so...
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
I agree that a programmer needs to control his or her computer environment.
One of the reasons I use Linux is because of the ability to customize the environment. Another is because of the assortment of tools that comes with the distributions. I would not enjoy being forced to develop web applications in a Windows 98/NT/2000 environment...especially if locked down.
I will require that future employers allow me the freedom to use whatever operating system I like, as long as I get the job done! Luckily, I've never had a boss tell me I could not use Linux.
An interview with these two poseurs on the radio revealed them to be incredibly naïve about labor, industry and the goals of the current underclass.
They were incapable of speaking intelligently about current legislation, modern unions, collective bargainting, high pay as compensation for long hours, the risks of IPOs, the trap of stock options, the benefits of loose working environments, marketability of skills, easy job mobility and dozens of other things. They were incoherent when they tried.
Instead, they reverted to "as we say in our book" and then they'd offer useless anecdotes of very little relevance.
Their voices were smirking, self-interested and self-indulgent. Their word choices and terminology were clichéd, hackneyed, borrowed. Overall, their tone was, "I can't believe a good fortune! I thought people would have found us out before now!" You could hear it all in their voices: pathetic, whiny, voices of spoiled children arguing from a position of supposed superiority.
I'm convinced that these two are the kind of people speak with their eyes closed, a psychological indicator that the conversation is all about the speaker, not the recipient.
Jon Katz's review does the book too much of a favor. These two dolts not only do not deserve space on Slashdot, they probably do not warrant space on your bookshelf.
This is not a troll. I believe these guys are in it for the money. They know zip about the high-tech working poor or other mistreated entities; they just thought they could make a killing on a book.
Wordnik, a dictionary project which aims to collect
Wow... great comments. I hope you are moderated up. Your link re:work addiction was really interesting.
:)
Thanks for posting
Try working a retail job, or at a restaurant, where you get to enjoy the following 'perks':
1. Low, low pay.
2. Some pink, doughy-faced 'supervisor' checking to be sure you 'look busy' at all times.
3. Reprimanded for being 10 minutes late. 3 reprimands (or thereabouts) and you're fired.
4. Low, low, LOW pay
I now bow and salute the people who hold these positions. I leave good tips.
Are you in a hurry to go back? I'm not! I am so dang thankful for my current position in 'hi-tech' (SQA Engineer) that I could get down and kiss the floor.
As a matter of fact--
(ssssmOOOOch!)
TttthhHHHHPPpppPpppt! Damn hairy-ass carpets!
**>>BELCH
You are inexperienced, wait until you have spent 4 years in the business, and then come back and read this post, you will laugh at yourself.
This is not a flame. Just me ranting. I've been working in the IT industry longer than you have, believe me, it won't be long before your dream job starts turning into a nightmare. I hope it dosn't happen, I really do, but I would be supprised if it didn't.
-- Hulver's site
Hmm, interesting point of view. I must say, I don't visit /. so often nowadays, nor post so much, simply because I feel that an on-line forum that can accomodate the likes of Katz isn't for me. But, where else does one go? Technocrat has much better editorial control, and more intelligent posts, but doesn't have the "critical mass" in user numbers to generate real discussion -- 2 to 9 comments seems to be the usual range. I don't see people leaving slashdot; most are morely likely simply to ignore Katz. But there's the rub -- can Katz be ignored? I think not. He is symptomatic of a deeper problem at slashdot: the lack of proper editing. Stuff posted as news sometimes contains hearsay, rumour, and plain misinformation (not deliberate, I'm sure). Katz is not the only offender, merely far and away the worst.
Computer geeks may be the latest thing to be... but there's a huge gaping chasm between what you see on TV and what your job really is. System admins are the janitors of e-business.. they clean up the messes from the PHBs, work long, late hours. It's a thankless job.. and it isn't the only one. Programmers are put under incredible stress to meet that next deadline... I'm suprised most of them aren't more neurotic from sleep deprivation. These poor souls literally live or die by whether or not somebody brought in the folgers this morning. Then you have the helpdesk. Need I say more? Technical support feels more like psychological support. Having been there myself, I can personally attest to this - I've had callers in the middle of domestics (you know - husband goes whacko) and had to step them through configuring their DUN because they were getting "Error -691... the computer you are dialling.."
Let's face it people, life in the computer field can suck. What we do at work is hell. What we do at home is heaven. Don't go for the long hours, the promise of IPO, or the lure of money. Ignore it all - if you wish for it you may just get it. Pursue your personal interests. Work a regular workday. Tell your boss to fsck off if he wants you to put in overtime without compensation. KNOW YOUR RIGHTS AS AN EMPLOYEE.. and don't be afraid to use them. We're geeks.. but we're also professionals.. and we are deserving of the respect other professions receive.
Working with the fancy hardware is no excuse for them paying you nothing to work 60 hour weeks. Stand up - take the power back. Or unplug the server if you're the introverted type. =)
--
>This is not a troll. I believe these guys are in it for the money. They know zip about the high-tech working poor or other mistreated entities; they
>just thought they could make a killing on a book.
I was wondering about that. As I've metioned elsewhere, I've been toying with putting in somekind of form my own horror stories about life at the bottom of the high tech food chain. At one point I was thinking of submitting this for use on their website until I noticed that they retained all present & future copyrights to material published there.
Yeah, right. I might not care if I ever see a cent from my writings, but if anyone's going to make money from it, I want to be first in line.
Geoff
I think I see a trend here. Maybe for them it really would be easier to muzzle the entire internet than to produce p
I've been in Silicon Valley for three years now, and have only worked for startups. I came in as a lowly webmonkey with no experience, and in 7 months became the VP of Content Sales at the 20+ employee company. The reason this was even possible was the realities of a startup:
;)
1. Startups can't afford to just throw bodies and money at problems.
2. Given 1, _all_ employees are pulling duties across multiple disciplines, giving them the opportunity to make a real difference in the performance of the company.
3. REAL startups (not some ex-HP or IBM Veeps with a bundle of cash) need the vision of employees to identify opportunities, and those who are most passionate about those opportunities get the chance to actually DO something about it.
4. Working 9-5, 5 days a week is just fine for engineers and IT folk wanting the gold watch at age 65...which has nothing to do with startup mentality. I've consistently taken under-market wages in order to increase the number of options I receive. I'm all for working 80 hours a week, 7 days a week, to make those options worth more than the paper they're printed on because I don't WANT to be punching the clock at Faceless Large Corporation at 65.
Startups aren't about the paradise of technical joy, nor are they remotely viable for those who crave security. They ARE about risk, not just financial but also emotional and intellectual. We risk losing our jobs, stunting our social lives, and creating products that we love but fail in the marketplace. And we take those risks because the rewards for success are, in our opinions, worth it.
The amusing thing is that current startup tech workers are much like the health care workers. Doctors are well-educated and technically skilled workers who are on call 24/7, and are paid well as a result. They chose that lifestyle because they believe in what they're doing, as do we. Nurses work the same "slavish" hours, and deal with disgruntled patients, emergency situations, and the sad reality that some things are beyond their help...which sound suspiciously like the people I know who work the help desks.
If you want regular hours with predictable and intellectually undemanding work, I suggest an exciting career in the janitorial or food service industries. Tech isn't better, or worse, than any other industry...it's just different.
Your proctologist called...they found your head. Remove "no-spam" from email address to contact me
Seems odd for the other fellow to count this as an off-topic post - it clearly relates to the topic.
need to be first = long hours in an ability to make an impossible deadline.
But it might be added that I'm not sure being first is necessarily that powerful.
Bill Gates didn't create the first personal computer operating system.
VHS was not the first consumer video format.
What people actually need is a compelling reason to switch. If you give them that, they will. The trick is finding out what that is, and executing well.
The advantages I see are pretty interesting.
Bill Gates leveraged the potent IBM brand to create the PC standard that we're still stuck with today. He also took advantage of the complacent nature of Lotus and WordPerfect when he brought out Excel and Word.
Panasonic/JVC realized peoplen needed longer recording times, and provided that in VHS.
Seems like a little more thought put into original product designs (in the case of VHS, anyway) might really help. Perhaps that's another lesson to the startup.
D
----
> Panasonic/JVC realized peoplen needed longer
> recording times, and provided that in VHS.
I thought VHS just had more pr0n since Beta was under tighter control by Sony, so first adopters bought VHS so they didn't have to go to adult theaters. Up until not too long ago, the only money makers on the web were purveyors of peurile pages (pr0n).
Sometimes freedom (and pr0n), can be a key to success.
Scuttlemonkey is a troll
And, like tribbles, if you feed them they will grow up unable to feed themselves, reporduce and you'll have many more hungry kids.
If we are to do anything, we need to teach them to feed themselves. All our problems would be reduced with a smaller population. We must stablize the world population or nature will do it for us.
We are the "red tide" of earth. Our own waste products will kill us but not before it kills most everthing else.
I was recently discussing with a friend the fact that many times in my life, people have described me as "lazy". She said she didn't regard me as lazy. Then when I thought about it a little harder, I saw that each person who called me lazy was actually trying to get me to do something for them, to put aside my own agenda and help them with theirs. You need to be careful about that. Sometimes such people can be very convincing, and sometimes it can be difficult to sort out what will best serve your own interests.
Cooperation is possible, and it's good, and capitalism facilitates it, and capitalism is good. But capitalism expects each person to look out for his or her own interest; your employer is not motivated to do so.
WWJD for a Klondike Bar?
Katz is such a hack. I can envision him right now, holding up a blade of grass trying to determine which way the geek wind is going to blow tomorrow. The moment he detects a movement, he proclaims it as his own. When the direction changes, he jumps the bandwagon yet again, hoping no one is the wiser....
I, and many others, tire of Katz and his routine. I suspect the powers that be on slashdot know this, yet they realize that his inflamatory trash generate increased traffic (look at how many comments he averages). It is a free country, and he does have the right to hear it. I don't blame slashdot for posting his articles. However, one thing they should be aware of is that it detracts from the site. Though I may occasionally click on his articles, there is only so many of these i'll tolerate. I suspect others share my view, maybe even enough to bite into their profits. I can hope, can't I?
Agreed, though the point I'm trying to make is that, perhaps, being a corporate entity, their wallets might not be best served by this behavior. Though in the short run, it would appear to generate increased revenues, can this hold out? I don't think this is so obvious. I suppose it comes down to knowing the readership. Are the kids (yes, a generalization) and those who get caught up in Katz content (for lack of a better word) representive of the general readership? What happens when those with real insight and knowledge leave? Are the kids' comment traffic self-perpetuating? In other words, when the more substancial content has totally left slashdot, will these kids still be drawn to Katzian debates?....etc etc etc
Hey I can't complain either.. we have a foosball table, free soda, large cubes and work 40 or so hours a week.
Sleep is for the weak.
I'm a web developer for a startup, but I knew what I was getting into. Everybody was pretty upfront about what was going to be expected of you. And yes I have worked some insane hours. But then there are weeks when the hours are rediculusly short.
Jon, what was the last startup you worked for?
Thanks!
Legacy hardware/software addict. Midnight hacker, 1960. Codepage 819 in DOS: Total Latin-1 compatibility (no boxes/lines
Funny; I used to work with one of the authors at a Silicon Alley startup. He was a complete non-techie, a "Webmaster" who produced neither HTML nor English for the site, but instead concentrated on the "overall architecture" of the site. Whatever that meant.
He's probably angry and bitter his experience there didn't make him rich. On the other hand, he didn't stay around long enough to vest any of his options. On the third hand, I never noticed him working particularly long hours.
He feels sorry for the guys who kept the servers going? That would be a couple of 23-year-old college dropouts (and one Columbia grad), who rarely showed up before 11 a.m. but often stayed past midnight, got paged at 3 a.m., and worked a lot of weekends. I'm glad the authors feel sorry for them ... but at least one of them doesn't know a thing about that life.
(Since you're probably wondering: I was a lead developer, then "Manager, Content Acquisition Software," for a team of five Unix/Perl programmers and one NT/C++ guy. I didn't work very long hours, unless you counted the productive four hours every day on the train. I stayed around long enough to vest about a third of my ten-cent-a-share options. But when the company laid off most of the technical staff, I saw the writing on the wall. I found a job closer to home, and let my options expire. The company's doing okay, with twenty employees instead of the hundred and twenty it had when I was there. I don't think it'll ever IPO. Bottom line: I'm not rich, either. And, yes, when the sysadmins weren't around, I was one of the other guys who kept the servers up.)
Stupid job ads, weird spam, occasional insight at
I think here in the Valley, convincing someone to come in to a job and pull the 60-hour week is harder to do. I think people are much wiser, and won't jump as quickly at new startups unless they have a top-notch management team, and/or impressive VC backing.
At my "elder" startup, there has been an ongoing backlash against long sacrificial workweeks. 40 hour weeks and 2 hour lunches are more the norm now. No chance to go IPO IMHO, but hey, I have lots of free time outside work and the salary is pretty good. No complaints here.
There will always be freshly minted graduates willing to go to a dubious startup dangling the promise of riches and 50,000 option shares, but there's too many stories of failure around here to not have heard at least one and be concerned.
Yes, the high-tech jobs are indeed not the magic fairyworld that it sometimes seem to be -- so what? The rules have not changed -- but the very fact that people perceive the field as the fairyland, is what makes the high-tech hell possible -- like the Ouroborous Snake, eating itself.
The businessmen always have tried, and probably always will try, to make a buck -- nothing new or immoral here. The workers always have been, and probably always will be, selling their skill -- ditto. The difference is that this is a new field, not that it is a fundamentally different one -- things are not settled, workers have not come to grip with it, and it is still a primordial capitalistic cahos.
The answer, of course, is not to lament our fates, but to take control of them. Me, I am finishing my MS now, and working as a systadmin at my university (40-hour week, minimum stress) -- I would never, never take one of those archetypical high-stress 80-hour-week jobs, no matter how much they pay me. I refuse to be treated like an expensive slave -- and so I live a life that I actually enjoy.
Stop and think -- what do YOU want from your life? Is all the stress and the work actually worth it? Happiness and satisfaction come from within, after all...
--
--
Victor Danilchenko
Many times they "outsource" the network duties to contracting firms so that they do not have to hire and pay their own employees to do the work. This saves the megacorp lots of money.
It can, but there are other reasons why this happens - it's not as callous and cruel as it sounds.
Consider: contract employees don't get much in the way of benefits (not from the widget company anyway - the contracting firms sometimes have good bennies, as it helps them keep qualified people) but they often cost more, on an hourly basis, than WidgeTron's own employees. 'Cause the contracting firm has to take their cut, and still pay the "netslave" enough that s/he will stay on. It's a tradeoff. And for many companies, what swings the balance is that they want (to borrow a Dilbertism) to "concentrate on their core business". For a widget manufacturer that means manufacturing widgets, not being a cutting-edge IT firm. But they need cutting-edge IT people, so they contract for them from a company whose core business is cutting-edge IT.
It's not good; it's not evil. It just is.
Maybe they're just trying to be polite.
Maybe they really do envy you.
Think about it. You're stressed, your bosses expect the impossible, and the deadline was yesterday. Their job is just the same! Only they probably don't have a valuable skill like yours. They don't get to feel superior to their incompetent bosses, or to the morons who call with questions or complaints.
People think it'd be great if only they could get a high-tech job like yours? Pity them. Think how dreadful their job must be.
There is always greed in all industries, be it business or tech.
however, i think that in the computers industry, you have more of a choice in how you want your career to develop. whether you want to butt kiss your way to the top of the corporate ladder, be a consultant to the highest bidder or pick a job that you sincerely will enjoy but pay less.
speaking for myself.. an ideal job is something which i enjoy doing (ie, code. real coding.. not maintaining websites, db's and servers) and which has a vision that i can get myself excited with.
;)
as for work conditions.. 40 hrs/wk is not bad. and i dont mind working extra hours when there is a big project thats going to be rolled out, but not consistently. casual dress would be plus too.
but i think.. the most important in the end would be the people. i want to surround myself with people who are intelligent and curious. who love what they do and love sharing their knowledge and learning new stuff... also who know how to relax and laugh at themselves.. in that way, the job can never get boring and i would actually look forward to go to work.
hey, you did ask for an ideal
Too bad it won't be this way for much longer... EDS is taking the shop over, and I'm out the door before the poopies start flying.
Right on, and the other thing to look for will be EDS junking as many unix boxes as possible, and replacing them with NT...
That is a common fear and one that A**hole bosses will play on if you let them. But, unless you are a ditch digger or floor sweeper, i.e. unskilled, casual labour, it is a crock.
Here are a few reasons why he is *very* unlikely to let you go if you just say, "No!"
(1) In most jurisdictions, there is a maximum number of hours that you can work without being paid overtime. After that, overtime must be paid, or your employer is breaking the law. Check with your local department of labour.
(2) If he did fire you for standing up for your rights, what's to say that the next person he hires won't be just as cranky about working for nothing.
(3) Many young people in the workforce don't know this one, but it's taught in the b-schools: The cost of hiring a skilled person usually costs out around the value of a third of the employee's annual salary. In other words, firing someone for no good reason is running up a major cost. (If he fires say five or six people, he's cost the company more than his annual salary. And what will *his* boss have to say about that?
(4) If you are fired for refusing to do unpaid overtime, you can sue for wrongful dismissal in most jurisdictions. Here in Canada, the courts will normally side with the discharged employee unless the employer can show (a) sufficient warning was given of unacceptable behaviour, (b) sufficient time was given for the employee to make corrections, (c) evidence is given to show that the unacceptable behaviour continued, and (d) "unacceptable behaviour" falls within the legal definition - which does *not* include working for free!
In other words, if your boss is pressuring you do work overtime fornothing, he's probably just trying it on to see if you are sucker enough to do it.
Just tell him politely, "TANSTAAFL!" ("There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch!")
Cheers.
Yes a number of professtions (big law firms?) make the young pups do all the crap for a a year or two before they realize how much they are doing is worth, once you have that figured out you can reach a more equitable arrangement.
+&x
> People seem to envision us as:
> Smart people who can sit back and relax most of the day while getting paid nicely for it.
Damn! That's the description of my job. In fact, I put in a request to my boss to change my title from "Sys Tech Anyl V" (production systems adminstrator with UNIX boxes) to "Web Surfer V". Trust me... it just boring on the other end of the spectrum. I go crazy trying to find something to do with my time.
But I realize that I don't that much room to complain. There are people who would KILL for my job. Too bad it won't be this way for much longer... EDS is taking the shop over, and I'm out the door before the poopies start flying.
I enjoy being a contactor... There's nothing like guranteed overtime @ double my Rate to really make up for having t be onsite for more than 40 hours a week.
I've done both slary, and Contract (1099, and W2) and I'll always like contracting more.. Usually less tress, more rewarding, and with my current contracting company, training is free.. So now I get get all of the sundry little resume fodder (CCNA, MSCE+I) done, and done for free.
The slight negatives are No Health Insurance, and no 401K... But those are negated for me, since I've always kept independant Health insurance, and Have had my own set of Stocks, IRA's and mutual funds.
I personally don't give a crap out Life insurance, because my only my cat survives me..
;-)
----
All Spelling errors are intentional
Do not point Happy Fun Starvo at face
May couse Leprosy
----
http://thepoliticalgeek.com/blog/ Politics for Geeks.
I dunno... Sometimes one does get into insane jobs.. but not for the supposed gold of stock options... Sometimes you see something as the next freakin' wave, and you just want to ride it.
My Sordid tale begins in Late 1994.... Presently working at a computer repair shop, turning wrenches, and setting up computers.. Life was good, if only for 20 hours a week @ 9 an hour... But I was still in community college, and the wages were ample for my needs.
Sometime around mid 1995.. The internet really started rearing it's big ugly head to the *rest* of the world... I repsonded with a yawn.. I had a shell account since 1992.. This was nothing new to me.. but to everyone else... they started acting like it was the next big thing... Being more than a bit intrigued, and doubly worried.. (Did I want Joe Moron, reading my Favorite Usenet groups?) I eventually started discussing all of this with a friend....
Which lead to me meeting the future president of a ISP in Illinois... Grand plans, Low Cash, and my brain on overdrive menat I started werking.. for Less $ than I was making, and for more hours... But the plan was magnificent.. And the users hadn't gotten too stupid yet...
I almost got pigeonholed into being an onsite installer of internet software.. But after the desturction of the bosses mini-van (He should change his own damn oil, and not expect someone borrowing it to check the oil..Doh) I was moved back to Tech support/Jr Admin Wanker.
that's when the hell began, life took a turn further down, as I was exploited by the drooling, unwashed, PPP-ignorant masses.. I started to dred work... Luckily, I was moved to 3rd shift, where the masses were slightly less braindead, and the oppurtunities to play Quake were quite abundant..
But all good things to come to a fiery crashing end... Eventually life started to suck even on the magical late shifft, and I made it worse by coming in late for work, more than a few times.. And eventually, I was dropped... thankfully..
The moral is? 2 years of my life almost.. No stock options, less than $12 an hour, and I learned only how to verbally spar with morons on the phone... Phah.. Netslave? Perhaps... But now I make about 4 times that rate.. and it's only 3.5 years later...
I never finished more than a year of college.. (I only regret it because I wanted to party more) and I have no certs aside from A+... So I guess the moral is.. Eventually you'l get a decent salary, adn a nice job, if you don't sweat the small crappy stuff...
yeah, right.
---All Spellng erors intentional
---Do not taunt Starvo, the happy fun admin
---May cause leprosy, or gingivitis
http://thepoliticalgeek.com/blog/ Politics for Geeks.
I honestly don't know why everyone is griping. I work as a contractor (UNIX Sys Admin) for a Fortune 500 company and I am treated quite nicely. I go in anywhere from 7-10am (my choice each morning) and leave when my 8 hours is up. I put in about 10 hours overtime per month, and that's just from carrying the oncall laptop/pager/phone for one week each month.
everyone knows that salaried people just get abused! quit working salary if you don't like 60 hour weeks!!! Go to work as a full-time employee of a consulting company. I mean, sure, they get 50% of my earning, but I still make more than any Sys admin here who works full-time salary for the company.
A year spent in artificial intelligence is enough to make one believe in God.
I really enjoyed that book... I picked it up at a book sale for $5 or something... and read it in 2 days (couldnt put it down)
It was indeed very insightful... but not negative.
I'm not going to buy the book "NetSlaves" it seems to me that theres a danger in writing a book when you're pissed off... you might just get published.. and then the world see's all your negativity. Well it seems to me that this book (Netslaves) will explode with negativity. I have 3 semesters left on my MIS degree and I just don't need something like this influencing me. The world is NOT a bad place.. yes there are greedy people, and yes there are backstabbers... but deal with it. You get what you put into it... and don't forget this is survival of the fittest. We're all greedy (including the Netslaves authors or they wouldnt have written the book)
It just seems to me that 2 pissed off guys wrote a book because they wanted to tell their side of the story. Well maybe people just didnt like them because of their... oh I dunno... negativity.
But yes.. if you're looking for a good book about the life, and feelings of a programmer... Microserfs is a great read. (it was recently mentioned in an article called "Myths of the e-factory" in Newsweek's special "Careers 2000" publication) btw... the article in Newsweek is quite insightful as well... and not negative... just states the facts and quotes various workers in silicon valley. These companies are great, lets not forget that... I mean you could work for some old skool hitler boss in a "ladder" type environment... but we have the chance to work at places where if we don't want to take the stairs... we can take the slide! And wear khakis to work! This is a wonderful time with wonderful companies coming forward... lets not forget that. I can only hope to find a place somewhere like this when I'm done my degree.
You have paid for a total of 0 pages and so far 0 have been used up (0 today).
There ought to be some way of stopping these pains. Can somebody please stop Douglas Rushkoff (SP probably) from every publishing a new book ?
Computers are about science and technology, not sociology.
Too true.
Before university I had a job at a fast food store for a year, and that was something else. Me and my co-workers treated each other well, but everyone else really treated us like shit. Now I'm coding in a real job in Europe, and I do whinge a bit now and then, and my life is a bit strange but I know it's a lot better than a lot of people wind up.
But hey, perhaps I should write a book saying how awful it is that no one gives me $20 K a week. Add the word internet and I could get Jon Katz to review the book...
I believe he was talking about the American economy, not the world economy. America has a great economy in my opinion. We have so much that we waste more natural resources in this country than the average country uses. And I believe we use about 5 times as much resources as an average country. Good old US of A.
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
I just recently graduated with a degree in Computer & Systems engineering (from RPI), and had a few different sysadmin / 'IT' jobs before I left school. After reviewing my job choices, I went with a position doing hardware design and microcode (at Big Blue), rather than an IT position with a Fortune 500 company (GE, Paine Webber, etc...). The opportunities were there (and paid well), but you just have to look at what you are going to be doing, and whether or not that is going to be satisfying.
Sysadmin roles aren't always firefighting, but there is certainly far too much of that for my liking, and it tends to wear on a person pretty quickly. It's fun for a while, and you get satisfaction from it... but eventually you can get fed up if you aren't doing as much new stuff as you are fighting problems... It takes different personalities, and the motivation is a big factor. They've even started a neww IT major at RPI (damn them to hell) for those who are looking for easy money and don't know what they are getting into. A less technical curriculum with more interdisciplinary courses... CS/CSE is still more valuable on an overall level - I think the larger background and deeper understanding of the systems you are working with is a big help (a little CS never hurts for automating tasks, or trying to patch security holes...).
Just my $.0004^.5
"It's tough to be bilingual when you get hit in the head."
Is there anything unique to the computer industry that creates this situation or is it simply the fast pace and large size of the market? I tend to think that any other industry, booming on the same scale and schedule of our computer industries would show similar characteristics.
Geeky modern art T-shirts
Their website isn't any better. Some of the stories are amusing, but describing, for example, a web columnist (with a decidedly non-technical subject matter) as a "high tech worker" does nothing to inspire any confidence they know what they're talking about.
or is this a new company thing?
I've done my share of tech work, and it wasn't much like net.slaves. Of course, most of my tech work is for a fortune 50 company, in the most computer oriented section of it.
I worked a Tech support hotline, the calls were long, tough and frequent, but it was rare that I did more than 42 hours a week, and when I did I got overtime (neat trick for a salaried employee).
Now I'm a liaison between the hotline and the software engineers, and the hours are still reasonable. My managers respect me,I get to play with neat computers, all in all, a good life.
Our SA's are subcontracted, but they don't seem too stressed.
Of course, I do geek stuff at home, mostly writing about geek stuff, but it's at home, at mostly my pace (except when we have a deadline to meet), and about things I like.
So are slashdotters in bigger, established companies away from the Valley seeing this much? Maybe it's just related to people willing to kill themselves on hopes that they're gonna get in on the next amazon.
George
Dear god... "netslaves"? Doesn't that sort of
dilute the meaning of the word "slave"? I work
40 hours a week, I'm paid obscenely well, I read
/. at work, and I came in today at noon. And I know there's a hell of a lot of people just like me out here. Admittedly not everyone has it as easy, but come on! Tech workers are some of the luckiest people in the world. Compare it to the relative amounts of work and wages that an EMT, teacher, farmer, machinist, or even mathematician has to deal with. I know pure science guys that are twice as smart as most of the engineers out here, who do twice the work and get one fifth the pay.
No matter how good life is, some people will always bitch...
"Was ist schoner als ein schones madchen?" -Alberto Vargas
I've just finished my MS, but I have absolutely no plans to pack up for Silicon Valley and "hit it big", as all my former classmates are doing.
Sitting back, enjoying a good game of Starcraft or Homeworld from time to time, and making sure the lusers are properly thankful whenever you get off your ass to fix something. Love being a BOFH.
Whenever someone starts to complain, I pull out my last payslip and show it to 'em. No, you're not paying me what I'm worth. So if you gonna make me stay late, you gotta make sure I'm properly bribed.
Of course, things can go wrong - change of bosses, and maybe some fresh-faced MCSE'll walk in and take over my job... but there's plenty of good jobs out here in the boonies, what with all the actual tech people going up and packing for California...
I used to be in MIS, and I whole heartedly agree
that software engineers are treated somewhat
better than sysadmins. Then again system admin
has been traditionally a stepping stone on the
path to coding godhood. I wouldn't make a career
of it, but others disagree nowadays.
I have no illusions - executive management and
VCs will never be your friend, but they are not
necessarily your enemy. Things are a little
more complicated than that.
It's about stupidity, but also not wanting to
be smart.
I have not read this book, and I am glad it has been brought to my attention; I look forward to reading it. I will do so, though, with a certain amount of trepidation.
I have been a temp/contractor/freelancer for 8 years now; I have never held any other kind of job. And I am rather used to the warped media view of what I do. All stories in the press either take the stance that (less commonly) temps/contractors/freelancers/etc. are incompetant bloodsuckers who will take the client for all they're worth or (the vast majority) temps/contractors/freelancers/etc. are exploited by the system of temping/contracting/freelancing and duped into thinking there's something good about it.
My trepidation, then, arises from the bit Katz quotes on "Cab Drivers". Sounds like - and, no, I don't have enough information to really know - the same-old-same-old. "Oh, those poor benighted independents! Eeking out a hard-scrabble existence, chasing job after job, for a chance of getting paid! Oh, pity the poor contractor without health insurance, without 401(k), without job security!"
For what it's worth: I chose this lifestyle because it works for me. Most reasonable agencies in this day and age offer benes (health, 401k, etc.) to their W2 employees. I have, in some ways, more job security than most people: if my relationship with a client deteriorates, I call up my agent and say "Get me out of here" - and he does.
That having been said, on to the real point:
In the last eight years, I've worked on some 50 client sites, in just about every conceivable kind of workplace: businesses of every shape and size, univerisities, non-profits, the gummint, even a major religion (no kidding). Sometimes for a day, sometimes for a month, sometimes for many months at a stretch.
Part of what got me hooked on this kind of work was the opportunity to see the insides of so many different workplaces. I wanted an answer to "What is 'work' like for most people?" and I didn't want to generalize, as everyone seemed to, from a paltry handful of data points.
These are some of the things I have learned:
Everyone thinks their workplace is "normal", no matter how abusive it is.
Workplaces are like families in that, because people tend not to be in more than one or two at a time, they have no benchmark against which to compare them. So everywhere I went, from places with fantastic morale and loyalty to the pits of Hades, everyone thought that where they worked - their relationship to their boss, their relationship to their coworkers, their morale of their division/company/branch/department, etc. - was "normal", and that if they changed their jobs their new work experience would be just the same. If their current experience was bad, it wouldn't get better anywhere else; if their current experience was good, it wouldn't be worse (or better) anywhere else.
The major reason that's bad is that it allows people in positions of authority to get away with murder. It's fatalism pure and simple.
The minor reason that's bad is that it reduces the posibility for sympathy between workers of very different companies to nil. Say worker A, coming from The Eighth Circle, LTD, applies for a job at Elysian Fields, Inc. where they are interviewed by worker B. All worker B can tell is that worker A didn't get much accomplished, had a rocky relationship with their job, and seems pretty despondent/desperate. Worker B does not see that in the context of Elysian Fields, Inc. worker A could be a great employee, because worker B doesn't realize the existence of different contexts. This is one of the reasons people tend to move from cruddy job to cruddy job, and good job to good job!
People believe their bosses have the power of life and death over them.
Sometimes, I think that a whole lot of people try to use their bosses as substitute parents, trying to earn the love and appreciation and approval of absent parents through the proxy of their bosses. Cuz they act like kids: unwilling to say "no, I'm sorry, I can't do that for you", shameful and resentful at not doing things good enough, and in short completely manipulatable.
(Which is one of the reasons I suspect as crooked any company which makes a big deal of how much it is a "family".)
Self-determination (poo-pooed above) really is worth it
Self-determination, however, is not just a function of being independently employed. It is much easier to find self-determination when you're on your own - that's a good chunk of why I went that route - but not everyone (or even most everyone) manages to find self-determination in being a temp/contractor/freelancer, nor is it impossible to be self-determined while "employed directly".
Self-determination is a state of mind, or, if you will, a state of spirit. It is a deep undertstanding that you are, in the end, responsible for the course of your life.
Some people get to self-determination via paranoia and cynicism: "Ain't nobody looking out for me, ever, but me." Some people get there via religious faith or a strong sense of calling: "I have to do what I was put here to do." Some people get there via a brush with death: "I am not going to waste any more of my precious seconds of life in such misery." Some people get there via philosophy, some people get there via hunger.
Doesn't matter how you get there: get there.
Self-determination is the rope by which you can haul yourself out of the quicksand of bad employment situations. Self-determination is the difference between being pathetically vulnerable and being able to shrug off the crap.
This isn't some woo-woo newage neo-psychology about positive thinking. Self-determination is a tool for hacking on lives. And its old name is "liberty", and people fought and died for it.
Most people believe that the expression "Being your own boss" actually has relevant meaning
Look: you, every last one of you, are the captains of your own fates. You are your own bosses, already.
Ultimately, you have only yourself to answer to. Are you, upon your death bed, going to worry "Was I sufficiently obedient? Was I a good enough employee? Were my bosses pleased with my service?"
You are responsible for the course of your life. That doesn't mean it's entirely your fault, but it is your responsibility, same way that if your puppy messes on your rug, the mess is not your fault, but it's still your responsibility. Shit happens. What I'm talking about is how you then deal with the shit.
It is nobody else's job to rescue you from the misery of an abusive job, or a job you just don't like. It's nobody else's job to answer the question "What shall I do with my life?" It's nobody else's job to intervene and say "You're throwing the best years of your life away on a crummy situation."
It's your job to care about you . It's your job to care about you enough to stand up for yourself; to refuse to allow other to take advantage of you; to force yourself to get out of fatal ruts. It's your job to step back and take a good long look at your life so far and ask "Is where I am now on the path to where I want to be? Is this getting me where I want to go? Is this trip I am on worth being on?".
A staggering number of people entrust this job to their bosses, or to Lady Luck (Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi!). But, ya know, those bosses don't care about you. That's not their job. You cannot abdicate this responsibility without suffering. To try and get someone else to do this for you is to look for parenting, to try to find someone to treat you like you're a kid and they're your mom-or-dad. But not even your parents can do this for you once you're an adult. This is what it means to be an adult.
Most (adult) people who are abused allow the abuse to happen
If your work situation is abusive - whether your boss is taking advantage of you financially or you are being sexually harassed by co-workers or your workspace is giving you an RSI - ask yourself "Why am I putting up with this?"
If the only answer you have is "I've gotten myself into debt up to my eyeballs and I'm terrified of being unemployed, so my current employer has me by the short and curlies", then I recommend to you the book Your Money or Your Life (Joe Dominguez, Vicki Robin)
If your answer is "Because I am too timid to confront the problem/people", then you really do have a problem, because even if you get out of the current situation, you'll bring your fatal weakness with you. You'll be an abuse victim waiting to happen.
Only you can rescue you. The rest of us are powerless to. You have to decide to be brave and decide stop it for yourself.
And that's what I learned as a temp/contractor/freelancer.
----------------------------------------------
-*- Any technology indistinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced -*-
"Couple of years"? "Couple of years?"
Are you out of your MIND?!
NOW! Put together your resume now, and get it out. Do you have any idea of what the job market is like right now?
You don't need to suffer more where you are to gain "valuable experience". You could be getting the same "valuable experience" and more pay.
The willingness of employers to look past qualifications right now is better than you may ever see again. The market is so tight for people with clues that employers are willing to compromise.
If nothing else: ask for a raise, if you're doing the work. Hell, ask for a promotion.
Yes, accepting a pay cut for some other intangible reward is OK, but, dude, you are not in a situation in which you should have to accept a pay cut for the intangible rewards you're getting.
----------------------------------------------
-*- Any technology indistinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced -*-
... who are so proud that they use NT and MICROS~1 environment.
/.
Whatever lets them sleep at night.
I rather work in a mixed environment. Yes, even with NT. Have one or two NT servers on hand keeps things interesting by every once in a while getting up and pushing the reset button.
It breaks up the monotony(sp) of surfing for porn, playing Quakeworld and reading
ChozSun [e-mail]
ChozSun
ChozSun.com
... however you are in control of your own destiny.
I have walked in and right back out on companies during a interview. What reasons?
1. They used (put in crappy brand name computers) across the board (Compaq=Windoze everywhere). This one particular company I had to tell off that their equipment stinks. They kept calling me afterwards wanting me to work for them. They were supporting 95 workstations while the tech people where on NT 3.1.
2. You are almost guarentee to walk through the work area on the way to the office. If not, ask for a small tour. Ignore the faces of the manager and supervisors, look around for the techs and sysadmins. If they look like they are in a pissed off mood, do not work for them. Chances are, that is not a place to work.
3. Finally, ask the manager "do we have free roam on our computers?" i.e. "Are we treated like the power users that we are or do we get our machines locked down so much we cannot even change the time".
The third point is happening at my job as we speak. Of course, on NT workstation, they can lock your machine down. Unless you know the admin passwords and edit your account or even better: if logging into a NT server gives you the heebee geebees, log into the domain of the workstation. Simple simple.
We also had a situation where we had a programmer working on Linux (hey Alan). Moving over to a new building, he was informed that he will be moving over to a NT workstation (applied to all programmers moving over). He said that he would quit (naturally). Not letting that happening, I put up the fight that they should not transfer over to NT. Of the couple weeks of battling that included the CEO, we finally won.
I am just a tech, only a tech. I have lost a lot of battles but that was the one that really matter. My managers cannot still understand that the fact that a programmer couldn't use the OS he wanted that he was going to quit.
The point is that you need to take control of your environment. I know everyone needs a job but what holds true for relationships holds true for a job "you are only truly happy if you are really picky."
ChozSun [e-mail]
ChozSun
ChozSun.com
As a college student who has worked in a variety of "information technology" settings, I am pretty sure that it is not the field that I want to work for. Our kind, for a lack of a better word is seen as someone that does not need any respect, and is often treated as a non human being. When something goes wrong it is always your fault, and when you try to explain (such as Windows spiral of death) to your supervisor, they beleive that you are just making excuses and are lazy.
My solution? I'm only going to work for myself. No one else.
The book _Microserfs_ is another excellent novel that's been out for quite some time now. It follows a programming nerd through some job changes, including a Silicon Valley startup. Very good book. Very funny. Somewhat insightful. (Goodly speaking English is me.)
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
Couldn't agree more. The IT industry is an incredible one; we are truly given a choice as to where our priorities lie.
You want a cool job? Don't expect to work for a huge company and get paid the big bucks.
You want to make good money? Don't expect to be able to leave the office in the middle of the day just to sit in the park and drink coffee.
You want to make great money? Don't expect to work 40 hours a week and command the respect and admiration of all of your co-workers as you claw your way to the top.
How many other industries give you those options? I've opted for a job in a cool company that I truly enjoy. I'm not rich, but I'm far from destitute! These people who are whining about horrible working conditions in big Silicon Valley start-ups have made their decision: They want the big bucks, but they're not willing to put up with the horrible hours and mundane work to get it.
It's a decision we all have to make when entering this industry. It's a decision we have to be able to live with.
Paradigm Shift
Interesting, but I worked a lot harder and and was much more underpaid when I worked in K-mart, Winn-Dixie Super Markets, Bradlees, that one crooked liquor store... the list goes on. I admit, I'm not paid what I'm worth and I don't buy into the stock options bit (I'm not expecting easy millions, especially since I'm just being told I'll get them, I've got nothing on paper.) But there are a lot of former co-workers from those other places whose only choice was to remain at K-mart in the hope of being raised to the exalted position of manager one day. I'm happy to have gotten out...
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
It isn't "a scam" that you get paid to write code. Never think that, never let others convince you of it. Remember there are people in the world who do no work and produce nothing that get paid a lot. How long would any software company last without any coders? Not long, that's for sure.
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
One of the reasons the IT industry may be so over-stressed and over-rushed is that to win in the market place often means getting there first. And getting the opening market share. Like VCR's, it's best for people to buy what everyone else is buying, not what's best. Because you get the most support that way (more videos are made for the popular VCR, more software is made for the popular computer....).
So, the first company out the door with a product, whether it's better or not, wins.
On the plus side, open standards are also an advantage in this type of arena. So, I believe we will see public software (whether GPL or whatever) win out as time goes by.
First, make it work, then make it right, then make it fast, then, make it bloated!
So what's in it for geeks? Insiders? Why should I care for this book if it's targeted to outsiders to the hi-tech industry? (Aside as a present idea for my mother, that is?)
Additionally, what has it to say that hasn't been flogged to death by Dilbert yet?
Is this News for Nerds or News about Nerds?
Why not review a dated by classic novel on the subject, such as Douglas Coupland's Microserfs?
"Knowledge = Power = Energy = Mass"
I didn't go to colledge -my story is Very close to this kids but I'm 23 and have a better job. The trick is work above expectations at a shitty job in a big company and you will excell, then the company will train you and you will have something a degree can't give you -real world experiance.
I know people with masters in CS that don't know what SSH is, I wouldn't hire them -but I would hire the geek/hacker kid that has 3-5years in a do everything position at X company with training from Y and Z company.
I'm underpaid, and though I'm bitter, for the most part I accept this. We're ALL underpaid, and we all have varying degrees of ability, qualifications and experience. I'm the l'il web monkey, but the MSCEs still ask me questions, because a piece of paper doesn't mean you know what you're doing. Allow me to tell my story.
;-)
:-), so they started finding things for me to do. Long story short, I taught myself web-design (all in notepad at work, and emacs at home) and a few programming languages. I work in HR, but the webdesign group are very impressed with my work. But I'm still doing it for data-entry money. But I'm (sort of) okay with that for now. This is why:
;-)
I'm 22. I do web design and programming on Unix based Xerox printers in a bank. I'm also the unpaid techie and a thousand other things that I can't keep track of. I don't have a degree. I left college, and left home a few years ago, because I decided that was best for me (long story). I was sleeping on a friend's floor in a different city with absolutely no qualifications, working a couple shitty jobs to try and afford an apartment. I should also point out that I have never taken a computer class in my life (with the exception of a keyboarding class in high school, but that doesn't count
I got on my feet, and took a temp job in a bank doing data entry stuff. Anyone ever work with Restrac? Anyway, I was hired on full time and quickly far surpassed expectations and standards. They noticed I knew alot about computers (I'm a geek; I taught myself BASIC in 3rd grade; you all know the story
I'm building experience. I have skills, but I have nothing to back up those skills. Nothing other than myself says that I can do all that I can. The money isn't great (or even good), but the experience and resume building I'm gaining is invaluable, and in a couple years I'll have my choice of exploitative jobs
Moral of the story: there are times when it's okay to be underpaid. And sometimes abilities really are qualifications.
I'm going back to bed now.
Bad things often happen to good people,
It is up to them to see that they remain good.
I stopped college for reasons beyond my control. I didn't do it because I wanted to. I'm young; I'll go back. But computers were for fun for me; if I had stayed in school then I wouldn't have taken computer classes, and I would have entered the work force exactly where I am now. I didn't know then what I know now.
As for methodology, I think that I do just fine reading books instead of sleeping through classes and maintaining a 4.0. I couldn't do that if I was a compsci major, but I wasn't. I'm not saying that anyone should learn anything particular from my story. If you learn that I'm an idiot, that's fine.
Bad things often happen to good people,
It is up to them to see that they remain good.
Not that this troll warrants a reply but since you are totally backwards I thought I'd set you straight.
Abe Ingersoll, the "MTV hacker kid," isn't dropping out of college and doing data entry for some greasy-spoon ISP. He's going to a college just down the road from my house. According to a friend of mine on the college's newspaper staff, he's pursuing a career in journalism (which seems appropriate given his story).
Whether or not he knows what he's doing is subject to debate I'm sure, I don't know him so I couldn't lend an argument to that debate. The point is that he's generally got his head on straight and doesn't deserve to be remembered in the picture you've painted.
___
The ends are ape-chosen, only the means are man's. -- Aldous Huxley
There are lots of people much worse off than your
average overworked web page designer. People who
work the same number of hours, but for a pittance compared to what a typical tech worker makes, and
often in conditions that threaten their life
or health.
Frankly, it is embarrasing to read such drivel,
although I guess it does beat watching
professional athletes complain about their
low pay and bad working conditions.
So, having read all of this, the question that I haven't seen raised yet is this: What are ideal working conditions for net workers (programmers, engineers, sysadmins, etc.)? I'm specifically talking about situations where geek types have to work with non-geek types (i.e. the marketers and business people).
What would your ideal job be? A lot of engineers I know would tell me that they would want to work for a company with only engineers, where they get to work on whatever they want, at their own pace. Sounds good to me. The thing is, though, that methodology doesn't leave a lot of room for actual 'business' -- who's gonna sell the product?
It seems to me that since both types of people are necessary for any given company, the most important thing to keep in mind is that (theoretically) everyone should have a level of respect for the jobs that other people do. Now, I know that there are many companies that have completely bloated staffs in one direction or another, and in every barrel you get a couple of dead fish. But I'm talking about an ideal situation here: if you were the founder of a startup that had decent funding and a really cool product, what kind of environment would you create where everyone necessary would be happy and get along?
I raise this point because I've been struggling with this very issue lately. I'm an programmer/geek at heart who's been working on a startup. Once I start hiring people, my main concern (I really mean what I'm about to say) is that the people I hire enjoy what they do and feel like they are being treated fairly and contributing to the success of themselves and the company. Everyone, which includes the marketers and financial people, not just engineers.
I'd love to hear thoughts on this.
If you don't like what you do, then you've got someone else's job. Go do what you want to do, you'll end up happier, with a better attitude, and likely more money.
I program because it beats working. And yes, I often spend incredible hours at work, under lots of pressure. But the pressure is more self-imposed that otherwise. When I stay late it is only because I am not finished yet.
IT people actually have it better than those in other fields in NYC. Try working in a bank or brokerage house back office.
you better believe it - this life rules.
as a software developer and young entrepreneur, I can tell you honestly that this is the best time I can possibly think of to be alive. the employment landscape is heavily sloped in my favor, salaries are completely ridiculous, opportunities are everywhere. if youre bitching about workign too many hours and being too stressed, youre a chump and I have no sympathy for you. go find a job that you enjoy with good hours and acceptable pay, because there are more than enough of them out there unless youre ridiculously unqualified.
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/3 5/netslaves.html
Artist description: Unplugged robots who've decided to use MP3 to spread their subversive, anti-technology, anti-boosterism.
I came across these guys on mp3.com a couple months ago and found nothing of value. It appears that they've decided to move to print media since web and audio wasn't selling.
They've added some new MP3's since the time I found them, and if they're anything like what I've already heard, then clicking the above link is just a waste of time anyway. Or maybe it's just me...I didn't get it.
numb
?syntax error
Hmmm... no "Buy this book at Amazon" now its fatbrain... (I really hate that name)...
Amazon is still a box on the right hand side though...
May contain traces of nut.
...I'm just dumb enough to like my company at the pay they give me(~20-60% less than market). Boy, I need to bang my head against a porsche.....
Remember this...no eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn....(jim morrison)
10%? 1%? What real world are you talking about? The Internet is global. Many more than 10% of today's kids are quite hungry right this second. Think that has little to do with programming jobs? Fast foward: 3 billion people will have 'net access in ten short years, including a few of the hungry kids who don't die of starvation this year. Lots of hungry people will be competing for "jobs" in an idea economy. Welcome to Bangalore. Welcome to the Real(tm) RealWorld(tm).
My solution? I'm only going to work for myself.
It may be the only solution, unless you want to be a cog in a wheel that spins only to maximize the ROI for shareholders and their greedy values. Increasingly, corporations are getting hip to ownership as motivator, and so offer employees teensy tiny shares of stock. Better than nothing. But when you form a company to employ yourself, be sure to consider alternative structures for incorporation that distribute ownership equitably among all participants.
Of course, the new environment has both positives and negatives. Intense competition has increased the pace of innovation, thus providing products to consumers at lower cost, and hence contributing to the prosperity of the late 1990's and early 2000's. A downside, as Katz describes, is the loss of job security, and some of the confidence of knowing that one may plan to move up the ladder over the long term.
However, prosperity always comes at a price. Would anybody want to return to the bad old days of stagflation?
The authors of that book had horror stories to tell. So do a lot of other people. But I gotta wonder; why all the angst?
Seriously, how many of you had a gun to your head when you took that job as a 'netslave'? Come on, you know you have a choice! We all do. If you don't like it then move on! If you can't find another job in the industry more to your liking then start selling shoes for a living!
Real slaves never had a choice and it is a great wrong to claim your priveliged lives have any relationship with their hardship and plight!
I like what I do. In many ways my job is the brightest spot in my life. Coding is fun! Sometimes it seems like a scam that I get paid to do it. And I have plenty of experience outside the industry; there was a time in my life when I thought I would be a mechanic for a living.
Sure I have had to deal with PHB's and unrealistic deadlines and flawed specifications and unqualified co-workers. But that comes with the territory. In my case I did it for a while and then opted out (I am currently working a non-net related business systems job with more realistic hours). But I also took a 20 grand a year pay cut. It was my choice. I live my life and work where I want to because, as a highly qualified programming geek, I have more choice than ninety percent of the poor bastards out there. If I don't like things I vote with my feet. I don't whine about it...
Jack
- -
Are you an SF Fan? Are you a Tru-Fan?
The stories about working countless hours without compensation, for bosses who don't know anything about the field, are stories that exist EVERYWHERE. I know someone who works in the IT department at a community hospital, and his director has a degree in law. In fact, not one of the board of directors there are even doctors.
I also know people who are salaried employees of Wal-Mart. And as a salaried employee, they are not only subject to uncompensated overtime, but are also subject to national relocation at a moment's notice.
If you want a dream job, then go after it. I found mine,... working for a small community bank doing PC/Lan work. 40 hours a week, holidays paid time off, and great benefits. And I'm 4 months out of High School.
The main idea is that people are exploited because they allow it to happen.
It also helps that I'm no longer in my twenties. When you're first getting started in a career, you don't have much to recommend you other than talent (not yet fully developed) and a willingness to work hard. So you have to work hard unless somebody like Jim Clark hand-picks you to be the next-Bill-Gates poster boy for his new company (which is another kind of servitude, albeit a lucrative one). But after you've been around several years and proved yourself (if you manage to do that), you're in a much better position to choose your employers, rather than taking whatever job comes along. You've also had time to learn more about people and the work environment in general, which is helpful in detecting abusive employers in advance (at which point you can either avoid them, as I do, or make a conscious choice to put up with them for a few years in order to achieve some goal of your own, such as pioneering in a new field, becoming filthy rich, or whatever).
What it really comes down to is just that your twenties are a time of apprenticeship, and apprenticeships involve a lot of hard work. This is not unique to the software industry, or to high-tech.
Jon Katz, of course, tends to view all corporate executives as evil exploiters of the common worker. This isn't really true. There are certainly a lot of assholes running companies and working in management, but I think in many cases it's not so much evil and greed as mere incompetence that is the basis of abusive treatment of employees. And there are also some very intelligent, decent people running successful companies. You just have to find them.
I have seen how these copanies, who depend on their networks, treat their IT workers. Many times they "outsource" the network duties to contracting firms so that they do not have to hire and pay their own employees to do the work. This saves the megacorp lots of money. If the contracting firm after a few years demands too much money they are replaced by another firm. Many times this costs valuable IT employees to loose jobs, benefits, etc. Hopefully things will get better; But until then look out for yourself or you could be one of those 'NetSlaves' who gets stepped on so that someone else can profit.
Hey what can I say i'm weird
I'm a tech geek. I've been one for about 15 years now. One of those typical "I taught myself" type of people. Been working "professionally" (ie. with a diploma) for two years now, all at the same place. My hobbyist background is c/c++ and x86 assembler, but I've moved on to 4th level languages and rapid application development environments, but still write some backend stuff the old fashioned way.
I work 36.5 hours per week and get 3 weeks of holidays/yr. Good benefits. $40K cdn/yr salary. Looking at my salary, that's a mere pittance compared to the astronomical sums of cash that I hear are being made in the valley. Every 4 months or so, I read Wired and go through this bout of depression relating to my pauper status amongst the glittering rich of the tech world. I lose all perspective of the good things in my job and start to loathe it.
This lasts for about a month or so, where I tend to become uncommunicative and terse with my fellow employees as I feel it's my right, as the alpha geek around here, to do. Then I go through this wake up process where I realize, things aren't that damn bad around here.
I get to run a Linux box and two low volume NT development servers (the production servers are Solaris boxes managed by another division). I get to talk directly to my management about the issues I face, even if they are fairly clueless as to how I "make it work". My workstation isn't the greatest in the world, but the office is pretty nice. I wear khakis and button down shirts with semi dressy shoes, but I don't where a tie, I hardly ever have to shave, no one complains about my earings, and every Friday is casual day. My supervisor is a graphic designer by trade who's been thrust into management, so he's very laid-back and easy to talk to, even if he dosn't understand a quarter of what I'm talking about.
When I really get down to it, the only problem I have with this place is that I could probably be making better money somewhere else. Also, that this isn't an IT focused department so I'm relegated to a support role and my achievements are not the end all be all of the company, which sometimes hurts my ego, but from a business perspective that is entirely understandable.
I'm thinking that a lot of the bad feelings and resentment in the IT industry is from people letting their ego run away with their good sense. Sure, there are deffinately the underpaid and underappreciated out there, but I wonder sometimes if a lot of the horror stories are simply people with bruised egos making mountains out of mole hills and jumping on the "I'm an overworked underpaid IT person" bandwagon. I also wonder how much of it is jealousy towards those who "made it big" with their overblown high tech startup?
I really do hate reading about how almost every well coifed poster boy/girl with their hands in a tech business seems to be heralded as the next coming of christ by the tech hype machine. I hate how there's a class of people who love to pose as geeks by memorizing all of the buzzwords in those fluff mags and then spouting off about Linux (or whatever else) as if they actually KNOW something because they carry around a Palm V and a StarTac. Yes, all this crap makes me angry and jealous and resent my position, but only when I make myself aware of it.
So stop reading about that sort of crap then and start trying to enjoy your own life instead of constantly competing against the joneses. Yes, even for the intelligencia, a good dose of forced ignorance can be bliss. But it's up to the individual I guess.
Just my thoughts on the matter. Do they related to the topic in any way?
-- kwashiorkor --
Leaps in Logic
should not be confused with
Jumping to Conclusions.
netslave == webmonkey == IT and CS students fresh out of college ?
I am, therefore you think.
Want to know what I'm sick of? Meeting people and when they ask me what I do and I tell them I'm a IT professional (can't tell them what I do in more specific terms, otherwise they get confused). Then, almost immediately they say: "Oh wow, that must be a great job! Working with technology, and such." My reply; "Trade you jobs for a day."
It seems the world has an over glamorized view of the tech industry. People seem to envision us as:
a)Smart people who can sit back and relax most of the day while getting paid nicely for it
or
b)People who are working to make star trek a reality.
Umm I think that about as far from the truth about the average tech as you can get. 60 hour weeks, screaming idiots who don't have the slightest idea about technology wondering why can't we give them a Network that doesn't crash. Why? Cause they're the moron who wanted to ditch the unix/linux/novell server in favor of NT because they saw a neat little commercial on TV during ally mcbeal or some such tv show, and totally diregarded the conclusive evidence that there are better ways to go then a pure NT network.
Then they wonder why I can't keep the help desk fully staffed with people when the usual call begins with: "Why in the hell can't you people give me the answer I want to hear? Why can't you people fix the problem? I don't want to hear excuses I want it fixed. No, I won't do what you tell me, get a tech over hear now. What do you mean I did something wrong? It can't be my fault. All you help desk people are the same! YOU SUCK!"
I'm glad some on is finally giving a decent account of a day in the life of the Tech.
/Rant
GIHM -The light at the end of the tunnel is only the oncoming train.
Our grandparents had to stand in a bread line. Cry me a handful about how bad your job sucks. I code 60 hours a week. If I get sick of it, i'll quit.