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What to do when your Domain is Threatened?
"My website offers free services to students, two of which are web based email and a student directory with full search capability yet Purdue claims that my domain infringes on the school's trademarked name. My question is, what legal rights do I have to keep my domain name? Any suggestions, or even a good lawyer whom I can call?"
Things like this make me also worry about the new cybersquatting laws that may end up putting the little-guy-with-the-neat-domain between a rock and a hard place.
ttyp0 continues: "After investigation I found that Purdue had only two names trademarked, which are "Purdue University" and "Purdue Boilermakers". I clearly state that we are not affiliated with Purdue University. There are other similar sites which use the word "Purdue" in the same fashion, such as, PURDUEPEOPLE.COM, PURDUECHAT.COM, and PURDUEDATING.COM to name a few...
I would go out and find a good intelectual property lawyer in the area. Also, lots of laywers volunteer free legal counsel to help out students, so you could probably actually get that through your school :).
Good luck.
Perhaps a suitable solution would be to transfer the website to them, but under some contract, stating that you will manage the domain? So it would be registered to them, but you'd be the webmaster and owner of it?
Get a large enough glob of students in support of you, and I'm sure you can work SOMETHING out.
Most universities probably don't want to ruin students' views of them. And they can't continue the same service without you in charge if you won't let them (it's 'copyright (c) you' of course)
Just my take on it.
--
AC
AFAIK you have a good chance of keeping it since it is a non-commercial site. :)
But of course asking a lawyer wouldn't hurt
/Richard
they have better lawyers than the school.... or even better, let them take it to court. It isn't likely that a trademark on the name Purdue would hold up in court IMHO, then again, I'm not a lawyer. Then countersue. -supabeast! @work
I wouldn't worry about lawyers yet, maybe they're just making empty threats at this point. You can have *them* do the hard work by waiting. They'll consult a lawyer and ask 'em if they even have a case. If their lawyer doesn't think so, it saves you the work and money.
:)
There's no reason to worry until they sue you anyways. Once they sue you, you can start worrying about it and look for a good lawyer.
In the meanwhile, I'd reply to them that you don't agree with them, don't think your website is infringing their trademark, that it's a free service for their students, they only benefit from your website etcetc. Just to stay polite
Imho they're kinda stupid for shooting at someone who offers their customers free service.
Each and every case must be taken aside and examined individually, but this sounds like trademark infringement. You are using their name without their knowledge or consent. Maybe, if you ask nicely, they will reimburse you for the expense of registering the domain.
Personally, I think it was a bad call on your part to use the school's name to promote your site. Hits should be based on content, advertising, or word of mouth, not a popular name.
I'd rather you do it wrong, than for me to have to do it at all.
In my humble opinion a domain name is an adress, it's a place where you put up your stuff. If they haven't registerd the domain (moved to that adress) I don't see why that would mean you are infringing on their trademark rights.
If you live in a street called lawyers lane, you're not expected to be a lawyer either, are you. I'm currently living in the Goeman Borgesiuslaan, and I'm not expecting to hear from the lawyers of his heirs, even though I freely hand out cards which state I live in the street named after him.
You moved to the adress first, you live there now. Though luck for them imho. I don't think anyone in your position has ever lost a lawsuit. But more then a few opted for a handy amount of money, that's perhaps something to consider. They don't want this lawsuit anymore then you do.
Whatever you do, don't allow them to bluff you into giving them the domainname. It's yours, it's your adress, and you followed all the right rules to acquire it. If they want it, they'll have to do or pay whatever it is worth to you.
Beware of Wight Supremacists!
Why don't you write back and tell them what you've told us Slashdotters? You don't have to be comabtive about it, just tell them that you've checked for evidence that they hold such a trademark and couldn't find any. Ask them to give you a thingy with a number or something -- there's probably a technical term for that. %^) At least you'll find out whether they stand on firm ground.
Always keep a sapphire in your mind
you state that you offer free services to PU students. Email all of them, inform them of the situation, and ask for their help.
The chicken company is spelled "Perdue."
Hey, if Sun Microsystems are the . in .com, does that mean they're going to sue us all?
:)
If I came across the domain in a search I could just as easily think it was for Frank Purdue the "chicken man". That is why I think the comment to which this one is a reply is baseless.
oh well, I offered what I could... -da beast, feeling stupid...
My domain - pcresource.net - has nothing there right now. My domain is also similar to the domains of a few other people/companies.
While I have never been threatend with legal action by the American companies concerned I have been offered large sums of money to compensate me if I agree to hand over the domain.
So far I have refused. The law is on my side. I bought it. I own it. It's mine.
I would write back to the university (cc your ISP) and state the information that you know about the trademarks owned and also let them know about the services you offer (for free!) to their students. It would also help to get the students on your side. No university wants an uprising within it's students!
In short, don't give in. The law is on your side. Don't let them take you without a fight!
why do they want one anyway, why cant they just stick with their .edu domain and be happy like every other college in this freaking country
I have had clients in doain battles (from both sides) a few times and it ha always been a fairly drawn out process. I would advise that you be prepared for a bit of a battle.
The interesting thing in this particular case is that your site pertains to your adversary! However, as you have had the domain for 3 years and have been using it in a legal manner, I would say you have a good case to continue using it.
It strikes me that the difficult situation here may be your ISP. I would recommend that you talk to them as well, outline the situation and find out what their policy is on such manners. They have less personal interest in this case and may well decide that they can no longer host your domain to avoid legal disputes. Try and convince them that you have a strong case and that it is in their interests to continue hosting the domain.
After that, I would talk to a lawyer - hopefully someone here will have suggestions for a good lawyer with domain issue experience in the States.
Finally, I would suggest that in my humble experience, these cases don't make it to court so very often. It's like Cease and Desist Orders, which can often be resolved out of court with little hassle, as long as both sides try and keep their heads.
Good luck!
A little planning goes a long way...
this is the same institution that will later send you heaps and heaps of alumni association junkmail reminding you of the good times you've had at school and begging for contributions.
The question is, if the ISP drops the site due to being scared of the legalities, could you consider that harassment? You know the automobile industry had similar problems back in the day. A new company would start up and the current manufacturers would threaten their suppliers not to supply to them. I know this is a whole other situation and it wasn't dealing with patents, but the premise was the same. They have threatened those who supply your domain with a home in hopes that they will drop your domain. Could this sort of thing be considered harassment? I don't know. I'm not a lawyer. However, I would send a NICE letter to the school stating your disagreement with the situation and imply the fact that they should not harass you further. If they want to speak to you about the domain, they should speak to YOU and not the ISP.
SL33ZE, MCSD
em: joedipshit@hotmail.com
SL33ZE - Artificial Intelligence is No Match For Natural Stupidity -
However, if other sites exist with the "Purdue" name in them, and Purdue University has not threatened or sued them, their stance is shaky. I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that if you have a trademark, and don't defend it uniformly, then to some degree you lose rights to it.
Another thing to consider, which potentially weakens their stance, is other businesses which have the Purdue name, but are unrelated to Purdue University. (I'm not talking domain names, but business names outside of the Internet.) The Purdue brand for chicken comes to mind. In other words, if Purdue is associated with several well-known businesses then the University's claim to anything with "Purdue" in it is greatly weakened. Since your site deals directly with the Purdue University, I'm not sure how much this counts.
In any case, the best advice is what's been stated by others: communicate with them and try to find an alternative. You're not on great legal ground to fight them.
----------
In a real emergency, we would have all fled in terror, and you would not have been notified.
I had to write. I attend the UofMichigan and have thought about a Uportal which is for students but not connected at all. Similar to the purdueonline.com. When I walk around the campus area I seen many brick and mortar businesses which use Wolverine, Michigan or UofM in thier names as well as using blue and gold logos. I imagine this is similar on any major campus - and no university is running down those businesses. However Purdue is not a state name like Ohio or Michigan and thus part of the general public.I think a good lawyer will be able to handle this IF the university decides to push it - though it is up to the sitemaster to show that it is on the up and up (helpful to students).
Prudue does not have the right to take your domain! Don't you remeber the "dibs" rule from elementary school.
It's called 'system load,' and it makes your post take a few seconds to show up. Also consider that other people are posting at any given time as well. As far as moderation, that's what that (Score:0,Offtopic) thing above your post is.
AC's solution is the very best deal that you could reasonably hope to get out of this. You are entirely in the right, morally speaking, and probably legally speaking too. But (this is the important bit):
1. University administrators are nasty people. If you get in their way, they will be needlessly cruel to you.
2. Universities have a million and one ways to fsck you up, whether or not you win in court. This website is not worth your whole rest of life.
3. And you will always have a hard time getting any sort of support, because people will always believe their side of things -- when people don't understand the issues, they go by reputation, and Purdue has a better one than you do.
In general, I'd advise anyone to fight like a tiger if right is on their side. But educators are such vindictive sods that I'd make an exception. Your two options are:
1. Give 'em the name, but scorch the earth, destroy your site and let them deal with the user complaints. This will annoy them, but they'll have their name, and they won't be angry enough to hurt you.
2. Co-operate fully, as per AC's suggestion. This way, you have to swallow some crow, but keep your site and keep your users happy.
What I would not do is to organise any sort of student protest. This will frighten and humiliate the admins, and they will break you on a wheel in revenge.
Of course, all this is assuming that you have some sort of life which you would like to preserve. If you're keen on fighting it out to the death, go for it, and good luck to you!
either way, look on it as a learning experience . . .
jsm
A friend of mine used to have the domain www.bertandernie.com (his name is Ernie) to run a humor list. He referred to his beer gut as "Bert". The Henson shop sicked their lawyers on him and treatened to sue, etc etc. He ended up settling by letting them buy the domain from him for about $7 more than what he paid to register it. As he says, at least he can claim that he got them to buy him a 6 pack of Sam Adams...
on trademark law. You need to start reading up on everything there is to know about trademarks and domain names. There's a lot of material available - I hope you have some free time to kill.
You'll want to start with the Domain Name Rights Coalition, which has a lot of good information, including a page about your rights (more specifically, the trademark holder's rights - you have no rights) under Network Solutions' trademark policies. If you pass those tests (which I believe you do, unless Purdue has a trademark on Purdue Online which predates your domain registration), you're in much better shape - NSI won't automatically shut you down. Purdue always has the option of filing suit, you see, but under certain circumstances NSI will take action preemptively against you and you'll lose without ever entering court.
Read your domain name registration agreement!
Of course, Purdue's case in court is weak. It cost them almost nothing to send this demand letter; if you knuckle under, that's a nice domain name for them with almost zero expenditure. They don't have a right to possess all domain names with Purdue in them, any more than Frank-the-chicken-guy does. You aren't attempting to extort money out of them (at least I hope not), you're providing your own independent, ongoing service. You're not attempting to confuse visitors into believing that Purdue runs the site. All of these factors are important. Read up on the criteria for actually infringing someone's trademark, like I said earlier, and send the nice lawyers a letter indicating that you know your rights and stand by them. Send them a list of all the other domain names with the string "purdue" in them - there are several sites which offer wildcard domain name searching. Don't offer to sell them the domain name. If you want to sell, you must retain a lawyer for that.
And take the time to write up some webpages about the situation and post them on purdueonline.com. Inform the school newspaper and local papers that Purdue is trying to hijack your domain name. Publicity is never a bad thing when you're in the right.
--
Michael Sims-michael at slashdot.org
I am a student at Purdue University. Three years ago, I decided to purchase the domain PURDUEONLINE.COM and use it for whatever reason
The most important thing for you to do is document the reason you registered the name ("for whatever reason" doesn't suffice). If you can show that you did not register PURDUEONLINE.COM in bad faith, you have gone a long way towards protecting your rights to the domain.
The main problem for domain owners in "cybersquatting laws" is registering a domain that only makes sense in relation to someone else's trademark. If you can find other businesses and projects named after Purdue but not affiliated with the university, that might help bolster your claim.
I ran PurdueBUZZ and then consolidated my content with mrhoops.com.
One of the discussions that I have had with my three partners is that of using Purdue in the domain name.
I'd be MOST INTERESTED to know how this turns out.
Our take was that we didn't want to test the waters, per se.
Drop us a line if you have updates or questions.
F. Thorn
Go Purdue!
I go to purdue, and I went to check out your page. It is really nice, and your directory beats the hell out of the purdue directory(directory.purdue.edu). It just figures that they want to shut you down because you offer a few better things then they do. If it means anything, I am on your side!
Quid rides ignare?
keep in mind they don't own purdue.com, either.
Last I checked, it was owned by the fansonly.com owner.
I asked if he'd sell it about a year and a helf ago. He said he planned on using it.
I guess he probably is interested in your case as well.
F. Thorn
Go Purdue!
It's sad, and it's unfair, and it should probably be illegal, but it happens a lot, and not just with domain names. I know of a few people myself who've had this happen to them.
- A.P.
--
"One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
take down your current content until this is cleared up, and put up a perdue chicken fanpage. or does purdue university own the chicken company?
seriously, how can they actually threaten you? it's just sad. perdue is a surname and is not unique to the university. if my last name were "berkley", and i made a family-history web site at "berkleyonline.com", then the college couldn't take that away. you can't trademark a surname!
if i were you, i'd remove any mention of the university name ("purdue university") from the site, and offer the services to "college students in this area" as opposed to "students of perdue university". and please, keep us updated on this matter!
Youre a student? On campus? np. Get your friends, roomates, people in your major (people in the CS major) to write letters or stage a protest (easier than it sounds). Resistance from their tuition paying students should be more than enough to make them give up.
Something similar happened to me.
I've written a chat software which is now called OpenVerse. When I started writing it, it was called Metaverse. But it turns out some company named SJGames owns this word (surprisingly, they only obtained a trademark for this word after the book SnowCrash was released.
It seems SJGames CONFIGURED a mush and called is Metaverse and trademarked the name.
So I'm happily working on my chat program when I get a letter from that company telling me I can't call it Metaverse cause they own the word.
I was a little upset to say the least but what can I do? I'm just a lowly free software programmer and I don't have any lawyer money to protect me from them.
I Quickly folded up Metaverse and changed the name to OpenVerse but now I worry about the next big guy to come along. What will I do then? Throw my project out the window? Fight it with no money and loose? All of these thin trademarks are really upsetting.
There should be some merrit when it comes to trademarks. I feel that simply configuring someone elses free software and then trademarking a name based on that is pretty damn thin to me.
Fish! LipHo
they try to prove that they are losing revenue on you. They'll probably have some people show up at your door asking where to pay their tuition and where they register for classes, where there dorms are etc. to try to build a case against you.
To my knowledge they dont have any more ownership rights to a domainname then cocacola would if i had registered cocacola.com before they did. Network Solutions's policy is first come, first serve.
Actually, it's called slashd.
slashd is the Slashdot daemon, and is repsonsible for refreshing the pages every 60 seconds.
The domain name PURDUEONLINE.WHATEVER seems to be a pretty clear example of a trademark violation and I doubt you'll prevail in court. Somebody mentioned businesses around universities sporting the school logo/name, but in most cases such businesses pay licensing fees and they reach an agreement to use the name *before* operating for three years.
I would only advise doing this if Purdue "takes it to the next level" by actually getting a lawyer invovled, but why not submit an article in the schools paper. Heck submit it to the IUB's IDS and IUPUI's also... Like a couple of other people have said the school never wants to look bad in front of the students...
This is kinda obvious but I think deserves saying... You wouldn't go to a lawyer website and ask their opinion on a diagnosis your doctor made and give it more than a grain of salt, so I wouldn't in this case either.
;) ) if the case may have merit. If it might, and you don't want to deal with the hassle, compromise or give up the domain. If the case likely has no merit, then wait until they sue you and have the lawyer deal with it.
Don't trust that they don't have a case because people on here tell you they don't, the best advice anyone can give in a case like this is one that was already given. Ask a lawyer (not a nerd
One thing worth saying though, is that if you decide to wait until they sue you knowing they have a case and assuming you'll give up the domain and things will be fine at that point, you should be aware that the offer to return the domain from you is not sufficient to force them to withdraw the lawsuit, and they can choose to continue it to a court case if they want.
There are very few rules preventing malicious lawsuits here in the U.S.
Have your cease and desist letter framed and keep it as a lasting memento/badge of greatness. I have several of them and frame each new one. Perhaps a personal thing, but I do see them as a sign of the site gaining...er...notice.
In the shortterm I would do nothing more than writing a very gentle response stating that you are a non-comm site and it is your belief and understanding that your sight does not infringe on Purdue. There are several good domain defense groups/sites. Check out http://www.ajax.org/dda/ which is the sight of Domain Defense Advocates and the infamous ajax battle .
Hope this helps. If you get a second letter, please feel free to email me, I may know someone down there. Also, I am certain that Purdue School of Law has a clinic and that some young law student would love to chew on this. Good luck.
rootrot
err, at least chickens and universities. : )
A trademark is not a word that companies have the rights to, but a non-generic word that someone would use to describe them... ie, you wouldn't describe a university as a "purdue" and in that context perdue university has legitimate trademark.
Since the poultry farms are spelled "Perdue", I don't think he's going to convince anyone he's affiliated with anything but the University. To top it off he uses Purdue's bell tower on his front page: it is a very recognizable symbol of the university.
First make sure that you aren't infringing on any of their copyrights or trademarks. The domain name itself is just a domain name and by itself can't violate any trademarks from what little I understand of copyright law. There are two things which may potentially be a problem on the page. The clock tower with "Purdue Online" to the right of it. Is that clock tower a trademark of Purdue University? The second thing is a bit silly but they might try to prove that you're diluting their trademark because you are providing search services for their students. I realize that it just provides an interface to their search engine and they still control who has access to it and that deep linking isn't illegal but this combined with the domain name could be used as evidence in a trademark infringement suit.
I'm not familiar with American universities but I would assume they've got a lot of money they can throw around at people so you can't safely assume the expense of a law suit would hold them back. Put a value on your time and decide if its best for you if you remove any links to official purdue services.
I'm not siding with them, I think they're behaving like trolls, but the act of having a lawsuit filed against you may be more aggravating then any moral victory would be.l
You know, the more often I read these stories, the more I see people write "I know I'm right, but I'd rather not go to court/get sued/can't afford lawyers" etc.
It's discouraging to see that. Essentially, it's cowardice.
Partially, geeks are legal cowards because the have too much to lose - they have a lot of income potential, and they don't want to jeopardize it - and partially, I think there's a culture here that's conflict averse for anything other than text flamewars.
Personally, I'm a scrapper, descended from a line of scrappers - including people who fought Latin American dictators and faced exile and death for their convictions. I am pretty sure I would put up a fight in a situation like this - it's sad to see that few will, because you will never enjoy rights that you don't struggle for.
Oh yeah? And what law says so?
Not that I doubt the charlatans most people call congressman would pass a law saying that.
Do you perchance work for the Committee for the Prevention of Unauthorized Practice of Shystering?
Devout follower of The Ferengi Rules of Acquisition.
You may want to inform Purdue that they have no reason for a commercial domain. And if they are in it for commercial purposes then maybe the NCAA should be notified. Also, you had the domain for serveral year before cybersquatting became a big issue. It may have been different if your domian was purduepeople.org, but even then just because of the amount of years that you have had the domain. Maybe Purdue chicken should take legal action against the university or maybe the university should take legal action against them. Either way it's really stupid and it sounds like they are getting involved with something they know nothing about and their lawyers don't care because either way they get paid to piss people off. I was say talk to the dean before you go spending money on a blood-sucking lawyer. Good luck!
A student news organization at my school, Claremont McKenna College, has the domain www.claremontmckenna.com, which is even more provocative than yours. They're also currently embroiled in a trademark dispute with the college, so it might be worth checking out their account of their troubles or e-mailing them to plan strategy.
Alexis
I can see the university getting upset if this was a case of cybersquatting (i.e. you bought the name and expected to the university to pay $$$ for it), but this is absurd. F him. I agree with an earlier poster. All you need to do is take your plea to the student paper and post flyers all over campus. But I suggest trying to peacefully reason with the dickhead first, if that's posssible. If he won't see how stupid he is, play hardball.What does he think? ANYTHING with the name "Purdue" in it they can claim. That's a bunch of crap.
IANAL - take with a grain of salt.
I'd expect that as a student, you'd get some sort of "fair use" protection, just as I'd expect an underground "student publication" to. You'll want to read up on trademark/fair use stuff, or try to find a lawyer who'll give you an idea of the applicablility of fair use. The fact that they're not even questioning the content of the site would make me wonder seriously about it. If a student can't use their University's name, then what value is that affiliation? I'd also go to the local campus newspaper and start trying to get them interested in a story. If you can find a friendly lawyer who thinks you've got a fair use exemption, then have them send an answering letter to the University. You may also want to make sure it's perfectly clear on the main page that the site isn't affiliated with the University and that they own the trademark. It's easier to win if you can prove that there's no dilution of their mark. Their case will probably be about dilution, focus on that, not on just using the name. Also, use disclaimers in any mail you send from the domain.
Talk to a lawyer if at all possible, and try the "Dear University, I feel my site is covered by fair use doctrine, however I've added strong language to the disclaimer on my site to protect you from dissolution of your mark. If you'd like the text of the language changed, I'd be happy to work with you to come up with mutually agreeable verbage." Watch how it's worded though, you don't want to admit an infringement, just that you want to reach an agreement without giving up your domain.
HTH,
Paul
http://www.pauldrobertson.com
Do not wait. I'm not a lawyer, but I can tell you that waiting to consult a lawyer (who is expirenced in this) is a bad idea.
Get a lawyer to look over the case, give you a preliminary thoughts. Take his advice, but perhaps write a letter of response that you have received their letter and are researching the relavent areas of law. Make sure it is neteral, you don't want to give any impression that you are leaning one way or anouther.
Now go to the local library and do research. A law library is better, but any one will do. Go to the law sections and read how to be your own lawyer books, and all the relavent area of law. This should take many hours, so plan on spending a lot of time reading. Lawyers may be paid to know the law, but they rarely know enough. If you know the law you can either save him some research, or perhaps win the case when you bring up relavent areas that he wouldn't have looked for. Some lawyers are good, some are too lazy to do it right. (Use tact when suggesting things to him though, a lawyer who doesn't like you will not help you)
When I mention a paid lawyer above, not just any lawyer, you want one who knows the internet and internet law. (But you can get recomendataions from a local lawyer)
Of course the publicity angle mentioned above doesn't hurt, students tend to side with the underdog, they may put enough pressure on the university that they back off.
As a purdue student myself, I am familiar with the site in question. While I do not make use of it frequently, I am _very_ concerned about this as I am also a professional web developer. Additionally, I have seen no harm or misuse of the University's name or good character by the site. While my misgivings about the administration's dedication to the student body at purdue stem from other experiences, this can only serve to re-affirm my view that those in charge at Purdue are severly out of touch with the students.
Hopefully this'll get enough press on campus to make a difference.
Dojo: defanging browsers so you don't have to
As a student at the university, I can only wonder what the university plans to do with the domain. Do they just want the domain and plan on doing nothing with it, or do they actually have grand plans for purdueonline.com? I doubt they do, but nobody knows for sure. As far as the web page, I applaud the webmaster for not using any sort of advertising, and it is a nice service. The webmail feature is nice, but I can get my email just as easily sshing to expert or telnetting to mailhome. Seth
Since the link on the /. story didn't have an http://, I had to type in the link manually and at first I type just "purdueonline.com", which leads to the homepage for Global Transit Logistics, Inc. I suppose there's nothing wrong with that (as far as a legal sense), but it seems odd from a practical sense. Do you know know why this is, ttyp0? Is it just a mix up on your hosting services end?
Well, you're the dumbass with friends who flashed the crowd. And it was interesting to see what my former school does to celebrate women sports championships.
At least my degree says "Northwestern" now. =)
according to Webster: perdue n. "a soldier sent on a dangerous mission".
It's just lawyers getting shouty. Pretty normal in the US, although if you try it in the UK you have the case thrown out - see the prince.com case
Just curious but why, if your friend flashed, was it a big deal about the pics being on the web?
Just because you can't, doesn't mean you shouldn't.
Stupid bitch. If you flash in public, you are dummy.
So, this person is a jackass/pervert for taking pictures of a naked chick in a public place? Who is "this person?" The owner of purdueonline? If not, I don't see what relevance this has to this article.
Under my understanding of the law, any pictures taken in public locations can be published however seen fit. If he snuck into your room and took pictures of you, then you'd have a right to be pissed. But he took pictures in a public location, where your friend WILLINGLY exposed herself to the crowd. Why, may I ask, is it any different if the people in the crowd see her naked in person or if they see her naked on a website?
Then you threaten the guy to take them down? Good thing he wasn't sue-happy as most Americans seem to be.
I hope to die peacefully in my sleep like grandpa, not screaming like his passengers.
It's so refreshing to hear how these schools are devoted to your education. After all this time I was still convinced that they were only after your $$$,$$$.$$ and gave you a worthless diploma in return even if you didn't learn anything.
Maybe if you were really good at some sport they wouldn't give you such a hard time. Sports are what's important you know.
Meanwhile you had best quit screwing around trying to educate yourself and get the legal battle going. That way you'll be delayed in your education and have to spend more $$,$$$.$$ to finish it up.
. Quit playing Monopoly with Bill. Switch to one of many non-Microsoft products today.
Now, let's say for the moment that Purdue University is a Trademarked name, then it stands to reason that his use of the name Purdue University without mention of trademark ownership on every page is a violation of trademark law - he is using their trademark without permission/attribution.
Now, as for the domain name, it is my recollection that most fights between "squatters" and "big companies" involved folks who were unaware of the "big companies", or, at a minimum, were in dissimilar businesses, so that any possibility of confusion was minimal - but this site is like an "intellectual barancle" hanging on the side of the juggernaut Purdue University and capitalizing on it's success. If there were no Purdue University, there would be no PURDUEONLINE.COM - simple as that.
I suspect that the lawyers at Purdue could easily make a case that the site infringe and if they go to court, they will probably look for some money to pay their lawyers. My advice would be to attempt to negotiate with the school so that you can keep your domain name and still provide the services you want to - but really, where do you see this going? Are you going to maintain the student directory after you graduate? It may be satisfaction enough for you to give the domain to the school if they agree to offer a similar service (you can demonstrate how popular it is, right?), and maybe even keep you on as developer/web master for a few dollars.
Your goal was to serve the community around Purdue, right?
It doesn't matter if you CAN win in court.
It doesn't matter if you are right.
What matters is the Prudue Administration controls the paycheks of the people who give you your grades. And, in the games of acedemic politics, you, as the student are meaningless. One student doesn't matter. Because they can just get more students.
Your fellow students are there to get the sheepskin. Asking these students to go OUT of thier way takes them off their goal. *IF* you get some students to help you, to take up the banner WITH you, expect them to get dragged in and 'questioned'.
Best idea.
1) ask to keep the site
2) ask for the $ you spent making the site. At a min, the domain name.
Try to be reasonable. If they are un-resonable, then bow out. Its better than having a target painted on your back.
(if this is your last semester....then don't worry...be happy)
If it was said on slashdot, it MUST be true!
OK, wait a minute-- where did you get the information for the student directory? Did you collate it yourself, going door to door and asking for major and email address? Because if you are using Purdue's info there, that might be a little problem.
If a school I attended allowed the database of students to be used for whatever purpose, I'd be a little miffed.
Maybe I'm wrong, but if the domain name was registered before the law came into effect, is not it the case that that law does not apply to issues originating before it's application? Just a thought, but it seems that might be the case here if you registered the name before this cybersquatting shit came to be.
Take your case to the alumni. You're offering free services to students, right, better than the equivalents offered by the administration? The alumni are bound to take your side. Once that happens the administration will fold faster than you can say "donation money".
If you do have to give it up, try to assign ownership to a student-run organization that is not under university control, or at least with a great deal of autonomy, that can raise a big stink if the administration gets coercive in how the domain is used.
No. He just wants to make sure the guy understands that he *needs* a lawyer if he's going to try and make a deal with the university. It's hard enough to get your cable company to fix your line, imagine what a long-established-and-prestigious university would be like without help!
"Bah!" - Dogbert
Trademarks are designed to work within specific classes of goods and services. Purdue the school is certainly within Class 41, Education. Since the site in question isn't being used to sell (or "trade", as the case may be) anything, it doesn't really fall into any class. But even if it did, it probably would be a different one, and there would be no conflict.
Furthermore, trademarks DO NOT remove the usage of a word from the language. Just because someone has trademarked the letter Q (Paramount has, by the way) doesn't mean you can't use it. As I understand it, descriptive use of trademarks is okay. You are allowed to call the Boston Marathon "The Boston Marathon" without the permission of the trademark owners -- you don't have to call it "that big long famous race that's held in Boston. That might apply in this case as well.
--
Although you are not running a commercial site, you may want to talk to a lawyer to help the chances of you saving your site. - Caster
No but see, they are passing laws that say you can't buy a trademarked name with the intent to sell. If he sold it would show intent.. DUH! While a good lawyer could help make sure he doesn't get himself in that sorta trouble.
The University came after me last year when I launched PurdueDating.com, however they did not pursue the domain, just the fact I was running off Purdue's network, thats why I left their network and relaunched my site. ttyp0 and I speculated that they wanted the domain so they could build a site they could make money off of, and figured that he would just say 'Here you go'.
Jason
Yeah, school admins can be pretty nasty if they feel their moral and intellecutal superiority (*cough*) threatened, I know that first hand. Remember, most of them have some sort of Master's or PhD, so they like to feel pretty elite.
Anyway, I'm a Purdue student myself, and I say screw 'em!
Besides the constant talk about trying to add new top level domains, I really hope such talk includes placing restrictions on those domains. Things such as
- .net may only be distributed to ISPs and other network service providers.
- .org may only be distributed to non-profit organizations
- .com or
.baz may be only distributed to companies and businesses.
Also, I would suggest that you cannot fight domain names that are outside your company's TLD. For example, sayBut once again, it boils down to the fact that e-commerce has put too much value on the domain name, which 5 years ago, was of very little importance to any net-savvy person. *sigh*.
"Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
"I can see my house from here!" - ST:
This type of case is what this company was formed for. I suggest contacting them and see what they have to say, and keep printed copies of you e-mails with them, including headers. Best thing you can do is not give in until the law takes the domain away from you and that will not happen for a while, things would have to go to the supream court with att the refilings and everything, just never give in. If the little people are crushed there will be nothing left to hold up the rest of the people.
WWW.EFF.COM
oki900
TIME - a measurment of it's self to determine how much time it takes for time to pass.
The university made him take off the phone directory on there because they claimed they owned the phone numbers/information in there. Does anyone really OWN that kind of information?
Jason
Right back to you "OH gee, too bad" your slutty friend flashed the crowd and got caught with her shirt up around her ears. If your going to do dumb things like that in public, quit your f***ing whining when your flat chested pictures show up on the net.
first to AC:
/. reading Purdue alumni might a) alert the administrators that they might be alienating potential benefactors through their actions and b) would probably not get ttypo into too much trouble.
Although your point is probably valid, in that I didn't give much evidence of not being a chickenshit, I'm actually not one. Among the organisations and people with whom I've picked fights during a short but belligerent life are: the Inland Revenue (several times), the British Army, the Swiss Banking Commission and the Richardson family (S. London). I've looked into the barrel of a gun and talked my way out of it. As a community leader, I've stood face to face with a man who was later convicted for arranging the murder of three (fellow) drug dealers and told him he wasn't welcome in our estate. This isn't macho-talk, just a record of the things that happen to you if you're articulate, political and more than averagely cocky.
Of all the battles I've been in, however, the ones which left me worst bruised have been fought against educational institutions. You are wrong to assume that they will hold back from being vindictive; they correctly assume that they will get the best of the PR battle. Big universities can flunk you, throw you out, etc, etc and who are the newspapers going to believe? A prestigious institution of learning, or some guy who flunked college and claims that they have a vendetta against him? As soon as you take on the authority which rates people for credibility, you start to develop credibility problems of your own.
Second, to Mawbid:
I've done a lot more things that I regret than you have, for example; both sins of ommission and of commission. I would wholeheartedly agree with you that people should always stand up for what they believe in.
But I'd urge ttypo to consider whether this is really "something he believes in", or just something he wants. If it's the first, fight like a tiger. If it's the second, you need to weigh up the balance of advantages. As far as I can see, it's the second, and the balance of advantages says "give up and move on".
Many things are worth going to the wire for. Political views, loved ones, the truth. Possessions never are. And a domain name looks much more like a possession than anything else to me.
God, I never thought I was going to get so philosophical. I must care about this more than I thought.
jsm
PS On a practical note, I might suggest that a write-in protest by
I remember reading a long while ago on /. about another domain that this happened to. I can't remember off-hand *which* domain it was, but basically someone had chosen to use a domain, and then later down the road a company tried to force him to turn it over. He refused and later it was discovered you can basically fight and win the domain battle if you can prove some stuff.. the ones I remember being:
1) You've had the domain for more than 2 years *AND* the other party never asked you to turn it over (such as a domain that was the same as a company name)
well I can really only remember that one, but as I sit here.. I start to wonder why would the university threaten you? It's just that, a University, hence would be *required* to use .EDU (not .COM) There are other sites out there that use school names.. such as www.psu.org (the school's address: www.psu.edu) and such. I believe Perdue is going overboard on this, and since you do strictly have a disclaimer you are not affliated with the school, they should have no problem. There is a Orthopedics place in my home town (same town with Penn State Univ) that is named "University Orthopedics". Simple way to avoid a lawsuit.. they state in any ad they place (radio, TV, etc) "We are not affliated with The Pennsylvania State University, but we do treat many of their atheletes"
In any case, I'd look more into the deal about having the domain for 2 years... I *know* the posting is here on /. somewhere.. The article would be maybe about 8 months old now, and I'm not sure how long /. keeps postings around, but maybe one of the guys could give you a hand in tracking it down.
IANAL, but I searched the web a bit and I don't agree. First of all it seems to be pErdue chicken, not pUrdue. Except for Purdue Pharma the word purdue seems to be almost exclusively used in the context 'Purdue University'.
He is a student at the Purdue University, so it's pretty obvious where he got the inspiration for his domainname. They are accusing him of trademark infringement. If there are no states, rivers, companies named 'Purdue something', I'd say they'd judge that he is indeed using a derivate of their name, and I'd say they can make him stop.
Some people mentioned that he's not making money of the domainname, that he didn't buy it in an attempt to sell it later, and that the school should get a .edu domain. That all seems completely irrelevant to me if they're out to stop him using the name based on trademark infringement.
But then again - I'm not a U.S. citizen, and I am not very familiar with U.S. laws. If I were you I'd consult a lawyer, rather asking the /. community.
I would ask them which of the other 50 registrants of domain names with "Purdue" in the name they're hassling. There are obviously a few below that are probably running much more commerical sites than yours. As for legal advice, I suggest you check with the registrants of: Purdue-law.com (They specialize in patent law!) and Purduelaw.com (no site up). They might have some advice!
CCPURDUE.COM
PURDUEMANAGEDCARE.COM
GREEKSATPURDUE.COM
BIGPURDUEFAN.COM
PURDUEPRIDE.COM
PURDUEAPARTMENTS.COM
PURDUEGEAR.COM
GO2PURDUE.COM
PURDUEALUMNICLUB.COM
PURDUETALK.COM
PURDUERULES.COM
PURDUETEAMLINK.COM
PURDUECATALOG.COM
PURDUEBOOKSTORE.COM
GOPURDUE.COM
PURDUEPRONET.COM
PURDUEMAIL.COM
PURDUEBOILERMAKERS.COM
PURDUEONLINE.COM
PURDUELAW.COM
PURDUEEFCU.COM
PURDUEBIOPHARMA.COM
HPURDUE.COM
PURDUEFAN.COM
PURDUEDATING.COM
E-PURDUE.COM
PURDUEJOBS.COM
PAULPURDUE.COM
PURDUEPHARMA.COM
PURDUE-LAW.COM
PURDUE-FEDERICK.COM
PURDUEFREDERICK.COM
PURDUEFREDRICK.COM
PURDUESPIRIT.COM
PURDUEPEOPLE.COM
PURDUE.COM
PURDUESPORTS.COM
PURDUEU.COM
MRPURDUE.COM
PURDUENET.COM
PURDUEBOOKS.COM
PURDUEGRAD.COM
PURDUEHOUSING.COM
PURDUEUNIVERSITY.COM
JOHNPURDUECLUB.COM
PURDUEFUND.COM
PURDUECOOPERATIVES.COM
PURDUEPETE.COM
PURDUEALUMNI.COM
PURDUEBASKETBALL.COM
PURDUESOURCE.COM
It looks like this could go either way. On one hand the surname Purdue has been around since the 1500's or so, well before the University. Furthermore I don't think that you can trademark a surname. Now if you had used PurdueUOnline.com then that is a clearer case against you. The only thing I would do is remove direct references to "Purdue University" from the page. Which in a way defeats the purpose of the site as a resource. You can check out the site http://www.netpolicy.com/ as they may be able to help you find counsel. DO NOT GIVE UP! Far too many people are rolling over when it comes to this. There will come a time in the near future where the courts will have to do some serious re-evaluation of the trademark process. If it keeps going like this you'll have people trademarking words like "the" or "and" and trying to charge royalties. Come on!
Eagles may soar but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines
sell out to Purdue Pharmaceuticals. I'm sure they have bigger lawyers. http://www.pharma.com/
With purdueonline.com, IMHO the biggest problem is him asking for student usernames and passwords. Eventhough the IMP php thing logs into the purdue servers with that username/password, if I were purdue.edu, Id be concerned....
Go Bucks!!! Beat Michigan this Weekend!!!
Sorry, It had to be done.
Non gratis rodentus anus
I'm a lawyer and (worse?) a law professor, so I have to start with disclaimers: this isn't legal advice, consult a lawyer who is familiar with the facts of your situation, etc. etc. YMMV. Consult the other disclaimers at once, etc. etc..
I should also note that what follows is based on the law at the time the letter was written (i.e. I am not taking account of the cybersquatting bill, which AFAIK has not actually passed both houses yet although I gather it's almost a foregone conclusion).
Furthermore, trademark law varies some (but only some) from country to country. I know much more about US law than I do about other countries. What I do know about European trademark law, however, suggests that the position of a domain name registrant viz a viz a brick & mortar trademark holder is a little less favorable in, say, the Netherlands, than it would be in the US because the distinction between commercial/non-commercial uses is less strong, and because mere registration may qualify as "use" of a trademark or some other type of infringing activity. What follows is primarily geared to the US domain name registrant.
As a general rule, trademark law divides the universe of trademarks into two families: a fairly small set of "famous" marks (think "CocaCola (tm)" and everything else. In the US the "famous" marks (and, weirdly, maybe some non-famous marks) are protected by relatively new federal anti-dilution statute and in many but not all states by (older) state anti-dilution laws which do vary. All trademarks, whether famous or not, are also protected against "confusion" and "tarnishment" (and other stuff we'll ignore for now). Tarnishment prosecutions are rare, but the law protects against the association of a trademarked name with something really bad (porn or drugs), modulo first amendment concerns (but then beware libel law). Running a porn site, even a free one, might well be considered tarnishment if the site's name was easily confused with a trademarked name.
The critical points to understand, as a first approximation to the law only, are these:
- your use is purely non-commercial (you are not even selling T-shirts), and
- you have never offered to sell the domain name to anyone for anything, and
- you are not guilty of tarnishment
then your legal position is very strong.Note also that all new registrations and all re-registrations in .com, .org and .net will henceforth be subject to ICANN's new take-it-or-leave-it dispute policies at the option of a complainant with a trademark seeking to wrest a domain name from a non-trademark holder.
So, don't panic. Please keep in mind that the new cybersquatting bill may obsolete some of the above. I understand the bill was amended last week and I have not had a chance to look at the latest text, which is why I'm not discussing it.
A. Michael Froomkin,
U. Miami School of Law,POB 248087
Coral Gables, FL 33124,USA
I have a blog.
Has anyone actually looked at what's on this site?
Doesn't look like student help thing to me.
This doesn't really change my view that Purdue couldn't own
it, but I start to wonder about why someone would post
that they are providing student services.
neo
Domain name squatting was once regarded as completely appropriate...
- Who says that ttyp0 is cybersquatting? According to his article, the website is offering services of a valid nature to Purdue students.
- He's not attempting to sell the domain name and make money on it, and finally,
- I disagree that domain name squatting was ever regarded as completely appropriate, even "four to five years ago or something like that"
My point being, that cybersquatting is not anything remotely like what is going on here.The second part of your post implies that anything to do with the word Compaq (for example) is trademarked, which may or may not be true. However, ttyp0 checked, and clearly states not only that "I found that Purdue had only two names trademarked, which are "Purdue University" and "Purdue Boilermakers"." but also that "I clearly state that we are not affiliated with Purdue University."So on this point, again, the website owner has made efforts to completely obey the law.
This leads to my final dissection of your post, in which you say "...something about trademark law says that if you don't protect your trademark, you lose the right to it, i.e. you can't successfully sue people later on that use it." That is correct. Except that the name Purdue isn't trademarked, just "Purdue University" and "Purdue Boilermakers. Which means that your final point ("They can sue you even if you registered it "first", because it was illegal of you to register and use their name in the first place.") doesn't hold up to reality.
The bottom line is, if the University wanted the word "Purdue" trademarked, they should have done it years ago. Since they didn't, they don't have the legal right to challenge PURDUEONLINE.COM's right to exist.
...Open Source isn't the only answer -- but it's almost always a better value than the alternatives...
Veronica.org was a fun one. ;-)
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
Send a letter to Purdue chicken's offering to sell them the name (for an undisclosed, astronomical price), and then write a letter to the school telling them that you are "in negotiations" with Purdue Chicken to sell them the domain name.
Who knows... You could make some bucks off the deal. And wouldn't it be fun to watch PU try to sue the Chicken guys... hmmm... who would win that one do you think?
Just a little off-topic, but the university name is spelled with a 'u' (Purdue) while the chicken company is spelled with an 'e' (Perdue). Therefore, there is no trademark issue between the two. Thanks for listening.
"Memo to myself, do the dumb things I gotta do. Touch the puppet head." -TMBG
First and foremost, the thing you need to do is find a lawyer, find a lawyer, find a lawyer. I'm not one. 99.9% of the people who post on Slashdot on /. are not one either. Don't take our advice, except in that one important respect.
How to find a lawyer? There's a lawyer directory called Martindale-Hubbell, which you can find at most any library. They also have a website, but I don't know if that actually contains the full content of the book or just those people who've added an online listing.
This book lists not only the lawyers and their types of practices, but also certain important statistics that help you decide how good they are. Find a lawyer and talk to them. You may or may not have a case, but Slashdotters are not the ones to tell you that.
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
when did the asshole-jock-type start hanging out on slashdot? "considering i'm 6'9" tall with a rather bad temper" so you bullied/threatened him and this somehow makes him the jackass. so you are a tough guy that hangs out with trashy, slutty chicks. cool. i bet you love cheap beer and WWF. go away.
Actually, some universities are rather protective of how businesses use their symbols. I can name one: Texas Tech University. When I left there a few months ago, they were just beginning a campaign to reign in local merchants' use of their name and logos. The idea being not so much to stop them from using the symbols, but to make merchants license the "officially sanctioned" versions of the the university seal or the "Double-T," and to do away with embarrassingly bad home-brew signs and such.
While the hewers wielded the ax, each man toward his fellow...
Find out from the University if they want to use the site name, or simply destroy its existance. Tell them that you're willing to work with them on its content. Ask them if they have ideas for improvement, and if they would be willing to help fund activities for the site. Tell them that this is a good way for them to get in touch with their students (something that my university, Millersville U of PA, needs to do very desperately).
Most of all, really kick butt on this site's usefulness. Open chat areas, hold contests, et cetera. Let them know that you're not defacing them in any way, and tell them that you're very open to suggestions on how the site should be run. Tell them that if they ever feel that you're abusing your use of the name, to come talk to you, and you'll be willing to let them know why it is that you did what you did that got them so upset.
I think that a compromise can be reached with the University. Mostly , Universities are all about you learning and getting an education. Them taking your domain from you is a bad indicator of their dedication to this fact. It would also be bad PR for them to do this.
If you need any help with implementing things for the site, give me a buzz, my email is:
n t b u g t r a k (at) h o t m a i l (dot) c o m
I know a lot about implementing things with Active Server Pages and HTML, and if your site is running on an NT or Windows box, I can help you with some really cool features.
Slay a dragon... over lunch!
I went to the site. Not only is it well-presented but it does exactly what he says it does: supporting students. What the school should be doing is paying him to build and maintain the site to fully support the school since he is doing a good job. But I don't see where they have any legal ground to stand on since he is obviously not squatting.
But I don't see why he should have to get a lawyer and spend money to defend himself. I say take it to an independant arbiter.
SkyLeach
As your site uses UP resources A banner stating you are not affiliated means nothing. The UP folks are not keene on folks basicly hi-jacking there students-which is what is happening here. EVEN if it's providing a beneficial service.
I would either 1.) change the purpose of your site to provide directory services, email to the town of Purdue or 2.) Provide information to students about the town and features, restaurants etc and then do not reference or use the University's resources in anyway then you would not infringe on their trademark or name.
Otherwise they have a clear case against ya sorry . .
They are in the publishing business and even have the trademark for the "eye in the pyramid" symbol for purposes of gaming and internet based activities.
The point of your problem is that you named a potential product and thought that just naming it gave you legal ownership. It should be pointed out that Neal Stephenson had no problem with SJ creating that customized MOO and naming it "Metaverse"
I notice that you have openverse as a registered domain and I bet you have even trademarked it.
Welcome to US business Law.
Therel Moore
Who was a tester of the Metaverse
Reality is just a clever Hack, and the Planck constant is the refresh rate.
I am also a Purdue student, and I am willing to give you my full support in any way I can. I wish I had known about your site ealier; I know dozens of people who would like a hotmail-like way to read thier mail. Anyway, I'd make the biggest show of force you can right now. If you can make it look like your not going to go down without a bitter fight BEFORE any lawyers get involved, then they may just decide it's not worth it. *sigh* I hate to see trademark law abused in such a way yet again.
Life is pain. Anyone who says otherwise is selling something.
I am also a Purdue student, and I am willing to give you my full support in any way I can. I wish I had known about your site ealier; I know dozens of people who would like a hotmail-like way to read thier mail. Anyway, I'd make the biggest show of force you can right now. If you can make it look like your not going to go down without a bitter fight BEFORE any lawyers get involved, then they may just decide it's not worth it. *sigh* I hate to see trademark law abused in such a way yet again.
Life is pain. Anyone who says otherwise is selling something.
I apologize for the double-post; my browser threw up on me.
Life is pain. Anyone who says otherwise is selling something.
You know, I find it amusing that you pay HOW much money per year to attend their university and yet they don't want you to use their name on any of your personal items such as a domain name.
You wear a shirt with Purdue on it, right? You proudly use the Purdue name when looking for a job, correct? Then it is absurd for them to get (pardon my French) pissy about you setting up a website that offers free services to fellow students.
Hang in there, my friend. They haven't a leg to stand on.
-- Shadowcat
kageneko@kageneko.net
"I can roleplay. I can frag. I can PK while you lag."
All this bullmerde could be solved by adding more .suffixes to the addressing system and force people to stay within them. For example: .per/.fun - Personal websites that exist for no other reason than to be a fan page, a site to promote your creations (art, software, etc), or to just express yourself .com - Sites with the purpose to make money, or to promote a company .org - Not for Profit sites...and make damn sure that commercial companies can't even own the damn things unless they have NFP information .spam - Any site that exists to send out unsolicited E-Mail.I'd love to see sites like this to exist just so I can bloody set my E-Mail to filter it all. .xxx - Any porn site. This would allow intelligent filtering by child protection software And any others as needed. If we could keep everyone in these domain suffixes, we could make life easier for everyone. As it stands, I have a website that I'm not registering for fear of conflicts out there. There are three choices I could use, My name (it's used already as a .com, but if I did it as .net would this person sue?), my content (Trademarked...it's a fan page), or the safe one of "[ISP name]].net/[username] Call me a ccoward, but I don't need the bloody headache a domain fight would cause me. Phoenix (I didn't post my site name because it isn't ready yet...I will post no HTML before it's ready...besides that damn dynamic HTML crap is giving me a bloody fit)
-- Wiccan Army, 13th Airborne Division "We will not fly silently into the night"
While it may not be an ideal solution to your problem, get the students behind you, write into the Exponent (student paper), post flyers, have e-mails sent, get grass-roots support going. As a student at Purdue myself, I sided with you as soon as I read about you plight and I'm sure others will as well. Everybody loves the underdog when it comes to challenge of arbitary enforced authority, you see that they don't go after the bookstores etc.
Banfield
Individuals attempting to sell domain names are branded "cybersquatters", even if their rights to the name are totally without blemish. Your lawyer acts as your proxy in this situation to negotiate a business deal. This is simply one situation where it is absolutely necessary to employ legal assistance. Your actions, trying to sell the domain name, can be used against you in court. Your lawyer's cannot.
--
Michael Sims-michael at slashdot.org
The Fox Network soon saw upset that xfiles.com existed and wanted the domain name.
The webmaster, whom I worked under, fought hard, and he retold his story Here.
The eventual downfall came when Fox threatened to litigate in expensive lawsuits. My boss had the legal right, but the big money of FOX could muscle his middle class income into poverty with just one legal battle.
So we caved, and created Chatphiles.com instead.
*Carlos: Exit Stage Right*
"Geeks, Where would you be without them?"
*Carlos: Exit Stage Right*
"Geeks, Where would you be without them?"
"Got Linux?"
I was considering applying to Perdue this fall. Not anymore. Universities shouldn't go around harrassing people like this. Its not in their best interest and this doesn't protect their interests either.
The only point we don't agree on is whether to see this as a battle to keep a possession or as a matter of justice.
--
Fuck the system? Nah, you might catch something.
What has to stop is every legal entity thinking that because they can afford a lawyer, they can bully on individuals whenever they please. Unfortunately, until the courts quit hiding from decisive rulings on this topic, anyone who can afford a lawyer.
Since purdueonline.com could just as easily apply to the chicken guy, it's pretty hard to imagine their basis for a trademark claim.
Expanding a vast wasteland since 1996.
Don't even think about handing over the name to them, much less even selling it to them. They have absolutely no right to take it. If your site contains information about the University, well, that is a different story. They will have a right to make you take off the information that they alone have rights to provide, but other than that, there is no way that they can claim that you must give them your domain name. This seems similar to what happened to Star Trek fans ordered by Paramount to take down their sites (that were MUCH better than Paramount's). This sueing and legal crap is getting out of hand. Sue for this, sue for that. Everyone always points fingers and never can take responsibility for themselves. It seems Purdue can't handle the fact that someone is offering a service that they can't match or handle themselves. In any case, it's their loss. This reminds me also of the MTV.COM thing that happened some x years ago. Remember that? Wasn't he a VJ, one of the better VJ's, and was ordered to give the name to MTV? Anyway, if this ownership of words thing keeps going on, shit, why not register to own the word "and" or "the". Everyone that uses your words can give you a penny for each instance of use. It's the same thing as using the word Purdue. All it is a frickin word. Tell em to go to hell.
Moderators, wake up!
My University actively goes after people who use the image of our school mascot on their personal homepages.
It also has trademarked/copyrighted/whatever the school COLOR. It's some kind of red that looks like any other color red. I have no idea how they managed to do that!
Hey, if she flashed people in a public place, and someone snapped a photo, too bad for her for being a stupid slut in a public place.
9 nov/uf001253.gif
You don't sound very intelligent... How did you find SlashDot? Check out the image below:
http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/9
there'd be more of a threat involved if you were talking about chicken, but a state funded university? what do you do when your educators aren't educated enough to prepare themselves? ignore them until they either go away or file suit. either way, you're a guaranteed winner.
if nothing else, just make a mockery of them on the very url that they claim is theirs by right. that's what i've been doing with samdonaldsonabcnews.com
it works....and it's damned entertaining as well.
Hmm,I didn't think that dumb jocks could read, let alone use what we call the "web". When you threatened him, were your "buddies" there shouting "put him in a bodybag, Jonny!", before you drove off, with a trashy cheerleader named Kelly, no doubt, in your father's car? You make me sick, and I understand now why a lot of people take an immediate dislike to stupid, abrasive Americans.
Hey Brent,
I'm a CS '97 grad from Purdue (and I'm guessing we know each other, but I digress) and I recall this type of thing being the subject of a couple talks I heard when I was there.
The first one that comes to mind is when Dr. Comer talked to our 413 class. One of the students asked what he thought about someone registering comer.com , and he totally blew it off, saying that when they developed DNS, they never expected people would just go out registering everything, so that's just the way it goes. I know Dr. Comer can be a hard person to find, but (especially if you're a CS student) if you can get him to put in a nice word for you with the administration, saying that that's just the way the system (in part developed by Purdue) was designed to work, it would probably be a big boon for your case. Of course there are deeper political issues with doing that: I'll leave that as an exercise to the reader.
The second source you'll want to check out is University Cleaners. I heard the owner (who's like a PU ME class of '56 or something) give a talk at a leadership conference. Seems that when he started University Cleaners 30 or 40 years ago, he got the same kind of letter from the University, saying how he had to change the name because people were getting the impression that his business was owned or something by Purdue University, which we all know is a bunch of bunk. Anyway, he made a big case for himself, presented it to Purdue, and they dropped the issue. So look him up and see if he has any pointers for you.
Of course, a bunch of letters from Alums can't hurt. I'd be happy to participate. Just let me know where to send it if you organize such an effort.
Hope this helps!
-"Zow"
#define GETALAWYER
#include
I'm a lawyer who deals in these sorts of issues on an almost daily basis and I wouldn't dream of giving legal advice without hearing the details of your specific case so this is NOT legal advice and if you follow it you might get in all kinds of trouble for which I take no responsibility, but I will tell you one thing: you can safely disregard anyone who tells you that what you're doing is an actionable trademark infringement. What you are doing MAY be actionable as dilution, but if, as you say, you are using a disclaimer on every page it's not infringement. The touchstone of trademark infringement is the use of a mark in a way that may cause confusion as to the origin or endorsement of the goods or services offered. You didn't say what International Class "Purdue University" is registered in, but even assuming they have the mark registered for the services you offer, your use cannot possibly cause confusion if you have a suitable (that's a key word) disclaimer on every page.
Most domain name trademark cases, however, aren't about infringement; they are about a more malleable concept called dilution. Dilution occurs where an unauthorized use of the mark causes some damage to the mark's value as a signifier of the goods or services in question. Two important decisions that you should look for (if you decide you want to know what your legal position really is) are the recent Avery and Clue decisions, both of which address the limits of the dilution concept in the domain name area.
Again, this isn't legal advice and should not be relied upon for any purpose. If you end up fighting a legal battle make sure you find a good US lawyer with experience in this particular field. The domain name/trademark legal landscape is changing radically every day and even a good intellectual property lawyer can screw this up unless he or she is practicing in that particular area. Of course, as many 'dotters have correctly pointed out, you're better off staying out of court altogether and dealing with this through polite letters, but if you do get sued don't believe all the folks here on /. who say your legal position is untenable. Talk to someone whose job it is to know.
"The true administration of justice is the firmest pillar of good government." - George Washington
Regarding this concept, what about the related but less benevolent example of cybersquatting, wherein a very similar URL is grabbed for malicious reasons. I just this morning discovered that a non-profit organization which I support has had this happen. They have a .ORG address. Someone apparently grabbed the .COM equivalent and is displaying a page announcing, quite falsely, that the organization has closed down. Presumably this is a form of blackmail.
I think the organization has pretty good grounds for a libel suit but I'm not really sure.
I have suggested that a fair settlement would consist of surrendering the URL to the organization, plus court costs of course.
it's = "it is"; its = possessive. E.g., it's flapping its wings.
It might be worthwhile to check with your local representatives to Indiana's legislature. Since Purdue is a state-supported school, they might be willing to ask some pointed questions as to why the administration is harassing a local citizen and student who is trying to provide a service to the universtiy community. Just a thought from a former Hoosier (I went to Ball State U. for a while before moving to Virginia, and remember some of the fun people used to have with that name - too bad you're not dealing with Ball U; you could get them laughed out of court easily ;-)
If you're absolutly sure you're not infringing any trademark, directly or by extension (dilution of trademark), ask a damage lawer about a counter-action for frivolous lawsuit (if it comes to this, of course) and subsequent damages.
I don't think you're a deep pocket. But Purdue University is much more likely to be a good target for a nasty greedy lawer.
Check this site out: http://www.ajax.org/dda/
Then turning around and selling a site that offers services... well there's nothing wrong with that. It happens every day...
------
WWhhaatt ddooeess dduupplleexx mmeeaann??
This sig intentionally left justified.
The new internet domain name harrassment by lawyers is pretty much the digital equivalent to ambulance chasing.
Also working in a University enviroment, i'm sure the legal department doesn't have a whole lot to do, so they decide to draft up some letters to all people with the word 'purdue' in a domain name and try and make them turn it over. Looks great when it comes to a senate meeting and they get to report on the progress of conforming all purdue internet addresses to control of the university.
I wonder if they send a letter to the purdue chicken guy, bet not, as he has the resources to sue their ass off. Too bad that NetSol. now requires you pay for the domain up front, or i would register hundreds of domains with the word "purdue" in them, then tell them they can have them all, which they would register and pay for each of them.
good luck.
Tell them that you are open to offers and that is the only way this matter will be settled. They do not have world wide rights to anything using their name. A person of that name, or even that company that sells chickens could purchase that name from you. Tell them to take a hike. We had the same problem with the Ottawa Senators getting annoyed that a hockey fan had beat them to the internet. In the end, after all the threats and legal bluffs had fallen flat on their face, the owner of the domain name settled for a ten year lease on a corporate box at the arena. Now he, and his ten best buds get to watch all the games for free in the best box in the house.
The bottom line being that a cease and desist letter is standard fair these days and usually just a starting point. A gentle response letter stating your position is the best first step.
Even the little guy can have trademarks, and frankly when it comes to incorporated businesses that have their own office space, you can't get much more of a little guy than Steve Jackson Games.
Take a look at: http://www.ajax.org/dda/
Since I really have no affiliation with them, I can't tell you exactly what they will do, but the webpage gives you an idea.
Good Luck, and may the force be with you...
Steve
(I swear I'm not a Star Wars junkie..I just felt like being creative in my post =) )
...but under fair use you are free to use their name as long as there is no chance that your service could be construed as offered by Purdue, thus endangering their reputation, or that you are using their name to compete with them in the same market (as a college, for example).
Sounds like you're on firm ground. Fight the good fight.
I don't need large brains to have a good time.
Just blow the freakin school up. It's the only fashionable thing to do.
Just blow the freakin school up. It's the only fashionable thing to do.
Question: Isn't it much more difficult to trademark a surname, if impossible? I.e. doesn't a trademark have to be unique?
For example: Bob's Air Conditioning Repair. Cannot be tm'd because there is nothing unique about this. Compare with Kleenex (tm), which is essentially a made-up word that has no meaning other than it is the brand name of a popular brand of facial tissue?
Purdue is not going after the name of the site or the fact that there might be ties to Purdue or trademark problems. Purdue is disgruntled over the fact that the site asks for user logins and passwords. Do you give out your login and password to check your email? I email Brent with that question and he will not answer. Purdue seems to see the site to be a security hole on student accounts and that makes Purdue look worse.
Tell them the price is $500,000 or you will see them in court. It might be easier for them to pay the half mil.
I own the domain name gemma.com. (Check my URL, for example) there's nothing on it now, since I recently changed ISPs. However, I do use it, primarilly to offer small opensource programs. One day, the Gemma construction company called, demanding that I give up my domain name. I offered to sell it to them, but they didn't like that idea. They never called back. Maybe someone who has heard of them could let me know, they might have got another site up, or they might be preparing to sue me...
In any case, I don't think that you will lose. However, lawsuits generally do cause a lot of money and time to be invested in them, and you don't get anything for winning when your the defendant. So what I'm trying to say is: the only way for you to really win is to not get sued. A counter-suit can reparate some (3x if I remember right) of the monetary loses, but how can it reparate the time sunk in to defending the domainname?
Yes, I'm still a junky. Are you still a bitch?
Sounds like trouble to me.
I registered purdueatl.org a couple of years ago when I was involved with the Atlanta Purdue Alumni club. I know DC owns purduedc.org - or maybe its dot com - I don't remember. Are they going to start thretening legal action against the Universities most active alumni??? It sounds like some career academic type at Purude hasn't thought this through very well.
NOTE: I know nothing on the subject .. i just recall reading about it :)
i've read, in the US, that: Company A (named Phoneware) sells phones, Company B (named Phoneware) sells staples .. Company A has a trademark on "Phoneware" and is sells to the midwest .. Company B has no trademark on "Phoneware" and sells staples in California .. Company A cannot demand Company B to change their name because 1) they focus on different markets 2) they serve two separate geographic regions.
Given the above (assuming I have read correctly), is the Internet a geographic region?
Yes, I am probably wrong, but worth bringing up if i read correctly :)
post a message saying the site is devoted to ALL things Purdue....that way you can tell the university you do chicken and other stuff and you can tell the chicken people you do the university and other stuff.
People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them
I forgot my password and didn't want to wait forever until the site mailed me at podzap@myokay.net with it. First of all, by US and especially tight-assed Indiana law, your friend committed a crime by showing her tits in public. The person who took a picture of her did not break any laws, even with putting the pictures on his website. You, in turn, broke the law by threating him with bodily harm if he failed to comply with your requests. The way I see it, you and her can go to jail for being stupid and ignorant, and the webmaster can have a field day suing both of you. You are a disgusting example of a college student, an american, a man, an internet user, and a human being. Too bad (for the rest of us) that there are more than a few of you out there. The typical american viewpoint toward nudity and sex (especially from females) is that it is something to hide, be ashamed of, and not talk about. This is very hippocritical since there are many new children born in the US every day and people were definitely having sex to make all of those babies. Calling someone perverted for taking a picture of the female body, especially one who showed it proudly in an effort to impress MEN in public, is one of the most ignorant comments I've ever heard. Have you ever looked up consequences in the dictionary? People suffer the consequences of their actions. Do us all a favor and stay off of the internet. Don't return to this site until you can subnet tcp/ip networks with a pencil and paper. You both could also benefit from spending some time in Europe. Mike -- Free your mind, and your ass will follow --
I work for a company that shall remain nameless for now. Disclaimer: these are my own opinions and do not necessarily reflect that of the company or its employees.
.net and .org) then we would take the owners to court and require that they transfer the domain name to us. I'm not familiar with the law of how/why we can do that, but it's similar to the law that stops people from putting Bill Gates' name on their product to try and sell it better - Intellectual rights I believe it's called.
Just as a note this is actually something that the company does on a daily basis. We are agents for famous sports and entertainment personalities. If we, for example, represented a famous person called Bill Gates, and www.billgates.com was already registered (also
However, in this case, I'd think that you have a pretty strong case. Purdue would need to establish that they have a vested interest in the site, which IMHO they don't. Good luck.
when it comes down to it, this is going to have to be made as a rational business decision on your part.
You need to do two things: (1) Assess the value (aesthetically, commercially or otherwise) to you of keeping the domain name; and (2) Assess the merits of Purdue's claims.
This much is clear, you cannot answer the latter question effectively without getting good advice from a competent lawyer, and in this case an expert on the subject will be far more efficient than a low-end techno-newbie, even at one-third the rate.
I can assure that no contributor to slashdot, lawyer or non-laywer can give you sound advice based solely upon the information provided, so should you decide to act upon any advice you receive here, be assured you will get in value precisely what you paid for the advice. Might as well flip a coin.
But if you do complete those analyses, you may discover that the matter can be dismissed with a letter, or even if it cannot be, that it would be worthwhile to fight (or try to outstare the other side) with respect to a genuine lawsuit. From this information, you can actually plan and execute a strategy, rather than merely react to the letter.
For your own good, Its probably best not to respond to the letter until you have obtained advice of competent counsel, except perhaps to advise the other side that you will communicate with them after you have obtained and received advice of counsel.
Basically the authoritative guild for trademark attorneys and professionals. Their website has much info on trademarks in the internet age.
(I was involved in building the site, so am familiar with the information.)
Contact your school's public relations or press relations office -ask them for a "trademark use" or "trademark policy" document. It'll spell out exactly what Purdue has, in fact, trademarked.
My take is, site content and domain name are separate issues. Your content, in spite of the disclaimer, is about Purdue U. Your domain name, however, isn't necessarily about Purdue U.
Netsol bends to court orders, and the courts rule based on whether you've made unauthorized use of plaintiff's trademarked material -use that doesn't fall into the categories of "fair use" or "permissioned use".
If your site's content is info or whatever about Purdue U., and your domain name is PurdueOnline.com, well, the court may rule that the domain does violate trademark rights of plaintiff, because your intent was to set up a site in reference to plaintiff's trademarked name (as shown by the content, go it?)
However, maybe the content is about something else named Purdue -a family, say- well, the word Purdue is a common name, and not in itself a trademarkable word. As part of a longer name or a logo, it would be (think poultry), but there are many entities with the name Purdue.
These are only my interpretations of what little I know. Go find yourself a nice IP attorney who knows trademarks and doesn't mind doing some pro-bono (free) work. Pitch it as a defining case, one which could potentially affect domain name relinquishment in future domain-trademark cases. Make sure the attorney doesn't already work the trademark-owner side of the street. Just ask him/her directly.
This is an age where anybody can set up a server or website, but organizations with millions or billions of dollars behind them set the rules for how we get to use the technology.
Citizens all, we are, but the few rule the many, and the monied rule the poor.
Good luck to you, and don't give up the fight.
-schmaltz
ps. Might want to consider contacting Purdue -the poultry company- and see if they want to bid on PurdueOnline.com. If you can't or don't want to fight the infringement case, well, sell the darn thing to the highest bidder!
Big Daddy, Johnny, Burp, Aunt Zelda, Scott, Slurp, Big Momma
all this domain insanity needs to stop sometime. maybe you should create a forum on your site to have a public discussion between the admins and your users. talk to the school paper about it.. they probably have no interesting news.. maybe they could run a story and generate even more publicity :)
Hey, I'm gonna reserve slashdotonline.com and start a slashdot review site there. Then I'm gonna reserve cocacolaonline.com and start a Coca Cola fan site there. The trademark holders won't mind, because I like their products or organizations and I'm on their side! While I oppose corporate takeovers of unrelated or independent websites, I have to respect trademark rights to SOME extent. Purdue University has been around for X years (probably quite a few). In that time they have painstakingly built a reputation as a University and many people have invested a LOT of effort and money in it, undoubtedly many orders of magnitude more than it took you to create that web page. Do they not have a right to use and/or RESERVE domain names that imply a basic association with the University? You feel vindicated because you think that your website provides a service that is beneficial to the University and that they might not use the domain name. But these are just your opinions. Whether or not your website is beneficial to the University, it is not under their control. Whether or not you disassociate yourself from them on the home page, you are still providing information at a URL that is VERY much associated with them. What if Purdue is in the long-term planning stages of an online education resource site, like many universities across the country are implementing right now? Wouldn't they like to reserve that name, which is the most obvious denomination for such a service? If they even have a plan to develop such a plan, don't they have a right to that name? Of course, freedom of speech would not be served if any domain name that included the name "Purdue" could be usurped by the University. Then no one could create a independent forum on the net relating to Purdue University or the student culture there. Purduedating.com, purdueculture.com, purdueindependent.com, purduestudents.com, purduesucks.com: These names are more vague in their association with the university. PurdueONLINE.com, however, is too basic an association. The convention of taking your organization name and appending the word "ONLINE" is a standard practice in developing Internet resources. Tell me, if myorganizationONLINE.com is up for grabs to the first taker, what IS protected by trademark law? Or do you disagree with trademarks altogether? -- A. Cutchin -- NOT an Anonymous Coward -- acutchin@usa.net
When JP threatened innerpulse, Siko told him to go to hell and didnt remove any content.
http://www.purdue.edu/oop/contactus/ I personally have a little bit of leverage (But not much) being a prospective student. But I would urge all who really cared to drop them a line on this topic.
What you're referring to is the number of the "Certificate of Registration" with the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office. The actual document consists of the certificate itself ("...said mark has been duly registered...in the Patent and Trademark Office on the PRINCIPAL REGISTER to the registrant named herein.") and a copy of the Registry entry. The entry will include the mark itself (e.g., "Microsoft"), who registered it (individual, corporation, or other entity), the area of commerce that it applies to (IIRC, the same word(s) can be trademarked by different companies in different businesses), the date of first use, the date of registration, etc.
Disclaimer: IANAL, but I do own a trademark.
The copyright on pictures belongs to the photographer. A release is not needed if the subject/s of the photo is/are in public. Privacy rights cannot be invoked to censor photos of public displays. The moral: if you don't want the public to see it, don't flash it in front of a crowd.
I still maintain that even a lawyer can't turn unlawful contduct into lawful conduct by their very presense.
If the act is illegal it is illegal for a lawyer too or for a person and a lawyer, or two lawyers for that matter.
A pox on monopoly lawyers and my pity for the people who are duped into using them.
Devout follower of The Ferengi Rules of Acquisition.
Maybe I'm just slow, but I don't see how or why a lawyer can perform acts that a person cannot (legally). If a lawyer acts as a proxy, then he is only performing acts on behalf of his principal, just like an agent would. I don't deny that lawyers often commit illegal acts but I don't see what permits them to do so. Are they not subject to the same laws as everyone else? I think they should be.
Devout follower of The Ferengi Rules of Acquisition.
Your school can cry all they want about your cool domain name, but there isn't a thing in the world they can do about it. A domain name is like a pantent, it isn't like a trademark. Just because they own a few similar trademarks doesn't mean you have to worry. The name was your idea, not theres and they can't take it from you. On the other hand, make it clear that you are not affiliated. All you do is provided extended service for their service without infringing on the services.
Actually, It was I who talked to you and your girlfriend on the telephone. I was over at his house. The prints came down after I talked to him about it being the right thing to do. If I remember correctly, you in no way threatened us at any time. Besides, you lived in a freshman dorm at the time. What are you going to do, get a bunch of your friends together with that RA of your and beat our ass? I think not. First, your girlfriend should keep her shirt on. It's rather disgracefull to the university and myself to see chicks like your girl taking off her shirt in public. Second, I'm including a link of the said pictures. See, crap like this does come back to haunt you. Your a jerk for one, I remember talking to you on the phone. Two, here is the link. Here is your chick without a shirt and you holding her up. Here's something to bring home to mom and dad. Photos like this would make any parent proud.
Actually, It was I who talked to you and your girlfriend on the telephone. I was over at his house. The prints came down after I talked to him about it being the right thing to do. If I remember correctly, you in no way threatened us at any time. Besides, you lived in a freshman dorm at the time. What are you going to do, get a bunch of your friends together with that RA of your and beat our ass? I think not. First, your girlfriend should keep her shirt on. It's rather disgracefull to the university and myself to see chicks like your girl taking off her shirt in public. Second, I'm including a link of the said pictures. See, crap like this does come back to haunt you. Your a jerk for one, I remember talking to you on the phone. Two, here is the link. Here is your chick without a shirt and you holding her up. Here's something to bring home to mom and dad. Photos like this would make any parent proud.
You may still be a jerk, but I'm an idiot. Sorry, it takes about an hour for that dns to work. Here is a absolute link that will work for the time being Once again, we have your chick without a shirt and you holding her up.
It seems to me your problem isn't cybersquatting (You are involved in a non-profit org, not a commercial venture) but rather the content of the site which you state is simply not true. I'd say go ahead and sue them for spreading false information, your organisation chose a .org site (a good choice IMO) and there is no reason whatsoever to dispute the domainname.
//rdj
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
nichachr--
Please email me what database you used or how you were able to search and find all those *purdue*.* domains??
Thanks
mailto:hershstern@linux-volunteers.org
Join the DNRC. Get ajax.org's domain defense advocate to help. (it's free) Send them a copy of the hasbro v. clue.com decision. (www.clue.com/legal) and tell them to kiss your ass. Get a lawyer involved. Organize a student takeover of the campus... (oh, sorry, I forgot that we can't get folks to do that anymore...) REFUSE TO BE A VICTIM!
why not give up purdueonline.com and register something else, like studentsonline.com (just an example)
By that, I meant, "as long as your product or service is not in the same field covered by the other Trademark holder's field, then you don't infringe." For instance, you're fine as long as you're not doing chicken or being an educational institution.
--Joe--
Program Intellivision!
maybe they are going after them to. they might just have to start somewhere.
it's purdueonline.COM not purdueonline.ORG - different idea all together