The linux community isn't without it's friendly and helpful crowd don't get me wrong. But the biggest barrier for myself getting into this world has to be getting help that's not covered within the scope of written doccumentation.
Further, not everyone knows where to go to find the docs, or even how to find someone to ask where to find them. To the common folk Linux is still reguarded as a "hacker" platform or "geek toy". A snobish community unwilling to help widends that gap and basically shoots it'self in the foot.
I've been a victim of "uber" users who call me all kinds of names for asking a stupid question. I didn't much like it and generally moved on to other stuff. The most recent example was trying to get WoW to run in Linux. I had questions about Wine, and I got run out on a rail.
I ended up getting it to work at 1fps and threw in the towel. Microsoft might suck but atleast stuff works most of the time and you don't have to hack/emulate it...
I can't help but think about being microsoft free tho. I was really close.
Cable / Satalite bills continue to increase because content providers continue increase the costs to broadcast their content. They're not chargeing the advert companies more, they're chargeing the cable / satalite companies more.
Advert revenue does not pay for my cable TV, My cable company does, and thus so do I with my monthly subscriptions. Adverts may serve to subsidise the provider costs, thus makeing the content cheaper for the cable company to pick up, but they do not pay for the content in whole. To force the adverts on me while continueing to charge me a fee to watch will cause me to drop cable, and TV in general like a bad habbit...
Honestly, I get more entertainment out of a box of leggo's than my TV anyway... if they make it more complicated and restricted, I'll just do without.
Sure they do. Just don't spend money on DRM'd products. There are plenty of medium available to enjoy IP of you want, Libraries, Radio, Theatres, etc... You don't HAVE to own it.
Wanna see DRM fail? Great, just don't buy it. I don't need it, I don't want it, and I won't buy it. However, give me DRM free content and i'll buy it with a smile. It's really quite simple.
They can push this on us if they want, but ultimately my dollar stays in my pocket until I choose to spend it. If the government mandates this, and people refuse to buy it, Ultimately business will demand that the government change the rules so that they can make money. It's that simple.
Not everyone in Oklahoma is a retard... Unfortunately the majority rules.:-\
Hell, I'd bet that half of our politicians would pay handily to work with a corporation such as Microsoft just so they can get a nice little blurb in a national paper that they can give their grandkids...
Life in rural America is uneventful at best. Something like this is what makes people feel important. Even if they don't see the greater evil in their actions... You can't blame them; they simply don't know any better...
-Duff
P.S. I've lived in Oklahoma my whole life so I can criticize all I want.
The Beauty of the whole argument is its ultimate fallibility. All forms of media have to exist in an analogue format in order for the human to understand, perceive, and enjoy it. Period. I dare someone to read a digital book that's not represented in an analogue format. Same with Music, same with Art, same with anything.
We are an Analogue species. Everything has to be represented in an analogue format at some point in the process. Analogue can be copied without issue, and has been copied for YEARS with the simplest of equipment. You can imbed watermarks all you want, but it can only affect technology point forward. Fortunately there's enough pre-existing technology available that it'd take 100's of years before DRM could force people into it's own standard.
I know that I'll never have to accept and abide by the DRM if I don't want to. Then again I'm knowledgeable enough about technology that I can build my own recording devices if needed.
-Duff
P.S. As posted prior, I also believe in the Public Library and purchaseing Albums in whole. This is just my choice to make though, and I don't wish to force that on anyone. Still, If I own the CD, I can rip the CD, and enjoy the digital info as I see fit. Worst case I can record the analogue, convert it to digital, and do the same. You don't need a masters degree to do this folks.
Then my point is, would it not be perfectly legal to jack the copyrighted works from a public library and distribute them? If the fees were already paid, and the rights already satisfied, then what difference does it make who gets the IP from that source?
Or more to the point, the purpose of a public library is to serve up this information to anyone who so chooses to seek it out. So if 2million people gave up their P2P networks in leu of waiting lists at their local library, Would the RIAA have a leg to stand on?
Is the issue "Where" the rogue IP originated, or that it's rogue to start with? Maybe I'm just unclear on the details. Just seems to me that if the IP has been cleared for public consumption, then it shouldn't matter where the IP comes from or how many copies exist. It was cleared for the public, and is being offered to the public presently. I see no laws or civil codes being broken. again, INAL however.
Just go to the public library and listen to the CD in part or whole. Don't know why people don't do this more often, are public libraries that bad?
I've gone to the library to read entire books for study or for enjoyment. I've gone to the library to listen to Music for study or for enjoyment. If this was illegal then how could a public (government funded) library get away with providing this material to the general public for free?
IF I obtain copies of this music or written work for personal use (study, reference, etc...) is this illegal as well? How many college students have broken copyright laws by making copies of text snippets or even whole volumes for reference at a later time? The idea of providing copyrighted material to a public forum for public consumption without direct or indirect payment to the copyright holder is, IMO, the key to beating the RIAA. Or any Copyright holder. If you can find the work in the Public library, then you should be able to beat the rap. INAL though.
My point was that SQL is an example of a system where you use *almost* plain english to request information. The hard logic behind what is actually being done is done so within the client/server relationship. (bassically, when linking 2 tables, you don't have to say, if KeyRecord1.TAbleA = KeyRecord1.TableB then return resutls A,B.C.D.etc, else if Keyrecord1.TableA = KeyRecord2.Tableb then return... blah blah blah)....
You don't have to program the logic behind how to link tables, you simply tell it which field is the key, and what to link on. You tell it which fields you want, you tell it what order you want, and what field to group on. You can even get so complex as to use your own conditional logic in Functions.
But the point is, that the majority of the logic and nuts&bolts programming is done behind the scenes and transparent to the user.
My point is valid. Wheter SQL sucks or is god's gift is not part of the debate.
Truly I don't pretend to have an answer. I'd love to be the brain behind something as revolutionary but alas I'm a hack at best.
SQL is a good example of a language that doesn't need logic checks to perform it's task. I'm not saying that SQL is great or anything, but it's a good example of how data can be managed without being told how to think. It already knows how to think, you're just giving it a subject. The downside is that your results are always limited to the scope of that system's logical mind. (And yes I do know that you can use logic if/then within functions and views, however it's only required in certain instances).
So why can't this premise be expanded so that you tell a program what you want it to do, and then it generates it's own code to which you are unable to edit. You review and QC the resulting procedure, suggest changes and revisions, regen the code, and repeat until you get the product you need. Then imagine if this process was recorded for further reference by other such programs to learn from.
Not terribly different than a chess program learning from it's mistakes. Which has already been done several times over.
*shrug* Like I said, I'm not the brain here. But if I can conceptualize this stuff then you'd think that someone else is 100 steps ahead of me. You'd think anyway.
Completely agree. 14 years from now won't look significantly different than today unless changes are made in the software development process. Not just the process but the actual language architecture used.
The best example I can give, is having to manually program decision making logic for every program I write. This should have already been streamlined. Why I have to tell a program how to think EVERY time I write a proc is a mystery to me.
IF/Then has been a crutch for software developers for far too long. There are other aspects of modern day programming that are just as repetitive and inefficient as well, I just couldn't think of a shorter example than this.
That's not surprising really. One thing you failed to mention though is the difficulties involved in supporting an audio product.
I worked CLI support for 4ish years way back when. I saw a lot of things come and go, and a lot of problems crop up and get resolved over time. The problem with Audio support is that it's very subjective. Yes I saw plenty of hardware issues with CLI's products that eventually got revised or phased out. I also saw a lot of problems that were indeed caused by environment and / or existing dirty hardware.
As a tech, it's very hard to work these issues as you can try everything in the book and not get any results. You can even get creative (no pun intended) and try tons of your own stuff and not get any better results. Noises (popping or otherwise) are very difficult to remove from a digital AND analogue style system that is common with modern computers. Supporting it / trying to fix it is a major PITA for techs especially when they're flying blind most of the time.
I'm not saying that CLI isn't accountable (I'm not fond of the company now days), but it is possible that they simply couldn't figure it out. I saw a TON of problems like this when the ****** came out. For some reason it just didn't like some systems and we never found anything substantially in common between the systems involved. It was very frustrating. Especially given that the issue wasn't device failure, but rather device performance.
-Duff
P.S. From the support side (at least 8 years ago), we did everything we could to provide a solution as a tech. Be that sending data to developers (and working with them) or by doing extensive callbacks or replacements when necessary. If they don't do it now then shame on CLI. I personally haven't owned a CLI product in 6+ years so I couldn't comment on anything during that time period.
I agree in part that the economy isn't nearly as bad as some enjoy pointing out. Certain sectors are in grave straits as of late, This I agree with. However, most businesses that I've been associated with are doing VERY well lately. (Includes housing, Small service business, Retail, Food Service, general labor, etc...)
I hate to call anyone out, but anyone who says our economy is failing isn't looking at the whole picture. For every loss there is a gain, you just have to be lucky enough and smart enough to see it and take advantage.
Back to topic, HD is overrated and just another excess that most can live without. Yes there is a difference I agree. However, I'd rather spend the money I have on something I need, not an upgrade of something I rarely use anyway. (I"m not a Tv watcher obviously).
Even if the human race and all trace of our existence were to be wiped off the face of the planet, Do you really think things will return to normal now? And if you can answer that question, maybe you can explain just exactly what normal is anyway.
I think most people get so caught up in the argument that they don't realize how stupid they sound. You do realize that even if everyone in the world got a soft heart and green conscious, we'd still be burning fuels, we'd still be pumping out WV and Co2, We'd still need fires or some type of heat to keep us warm, still need livestock or something to eat, and still need some way to get around.
Even tree-hugging green freaks won't give up their modes of transportation or winter heat, or processed / clean foods. If they did, they'd be living the hermit life in the back woods competing with the wildlife for food. Which would be a fantastic TV show, but I digress.
What really makes me laugh are the people who are fully clothed with picket signs walking around telling industry to stop killing the world. As if the clothes on their back were completely made industry free. As if their food were industry free. Tofu is processed... Common folks... Hybrid cars contain plastics, yes they are derived from petroleum products. Most "Necessary" chemicals and vaccinations are either based on petroleum, or produced in "Industry" that uses petroleum.
Paper signs are produced in factories, guess what, they use petro to power the factory.
The world cannot be saved by us. You can preach, picket, and protest all you want, but some moron somewhere is going to burn something, releasing heat, Co2 and WV into the atmosphere and 'WHAM' we're back to square one. But we might as well argue the what if on/. Anyway cause it's Friday and we're obviously all bored and ready to go home and fire up the "Green" computer and play WoW....
I don't disagree at all. Actually I would use a passive or indirect heating method. Like, use the flame to heat the salt water (which distils into fresh water), to heat the oil (which distils into lighter petro's), that you use to keep the fire burning.
The biggest problem I see with this process will be a zero sum result. Meaning, will the petro you distil be sufficient to keep the fire going to distill the light petro. Can you actually run a net from the process and if so how much? The actuall realized volumes could be considerabily less than what is needed to survive in armageddon.
Techincally you could use the heavy oil wastes for the fire instead of the lighter pseudo refined oils. However, introduceing the heavy petro to a combustion process is much harder. And example would be trying to set a quart of used motor oil on fire. It doesn't start easily. even with an open flame. most of your mid-continent crudes will be significantly heavier so finding a way to get them to combust and return energy will be difficult.
meh... I guess I"m going overboard on this so I'll shaddup. Rest assured it can be done, and if the end does come within my lifetime look me up, just make sure you wave a/. flag high and prowd or I'll shoot on sight. LOL
Not true at all. There's no magic forumla for seperating out fuels that can be used by most modern technologies. All you need is heat, and a general knowlege of distiling. It's that simple.
More to the point, and yes this makes me sound like a redneck, but I can refine a useable fuel for my v8 1995 Chevy truck with a simple 55 Gallon drum, a campfire, and a few feet of pipe. The trick is knowing, or figureing out, what temperatures certian liquids will distill at, and captureing them.
Heated crude gives off gasses, gasses that can be distilled when cooled. This is the essence of refineing fuels, and easily done by any laymen with a gun, lots of petro, and a lot of free time.
Which also serves my "Salt Water" comment previously. If you can figure out how to distil useable fuels, then you should be able to construct desalting facilities as well (heat + tank + pipes for cooling = fresh water... or as fresh as iron oxide will allow).
I don't have any Links persey, I don't spend time researching this stuff on the web when I have a Paladin so close to 60. Most of this stuff comes accross my desk in print. A Lot of SPE stuff, but some other industry article stuffs. I'll see if I can find these reads since I more than likely canned them after reading my copies.
If you have access to SPE information that's the best way to start. It's the perverbial horses mouth and a treasure trove of energy related information. The rest of my knowlege is working with engineers that work the areas. I myself am just a lowly non-engineer type so what I get from books, Engineers, SPE papers, and various other (sometimes biased) reads is what I have to work with.
Sorry I can't be more help.
-Duff
Just wanted to add my.02 since I work the O&G sector. One point most people miss isn't the "Quantity" of oil that remains but the "Quality" of oil. The last super giant field, the ghawar in Saudi, consists of a light/sweet crude that is easily (and cheaply) refined. Most of the oil shale / sands that remain in North America are heavy crudes that are unsuitable for light fuel refinement.
I have more to say but can't think of a way to say it without inviting a lot of/. commentary I'd rather live without.
-Duff
I admit that you could be right about the rural population. However, whole communities can survive off of 1 maybe 2 marginal oil/gas wells. Marginal is of course defined by market price, right now most low producers are profitable even with very low production (good for long term production, bad for consumers right now.)
Where I grew up, most people have guns, and aren't afraid to use them. It wouldn't be hard to "Claim" a well for your very own and defend it. I speak along these lines since the "Mad Maxx" senario was brought up to start with. Wells in the mid-west are a dime a dozen, usually on 20-40 acre spaceing. so one could imagine that if the rual people claimed these for themselves, it might just be the rual communites that outlast the City folk.
Not trying to start any fights here, but you can see that both perspectives have merit. My money is on the rual area's surviving, nothing like wide open country with petro-a-plenty and saltwater running out of our butts to scream survival. Removing the salt wouldn't be a big problem really with all the extra global heat to provide evaporation and all.
I might actually enjoy that senario more than the hustle/bustle of modern life... Then again, I can't go a day without playing WoW so who knows...
Slashdot Mirror
The linux community isn't without it's friendly and helpful crowd don't get me wrong. But the biggest barrier for myself getting into this world has to be getting help that's not covered within the scope of written doccumentation.
Further, not everyone knows where to go to find the docs, or even how to find someone to ask where to find them. To the common folk Linux is still reguarded as a "hacker" platform or "geek toy". A snobish community unwilling to help widends that gap and basically shoots it'self in the foot.
I've been a victim of "uber" users who call me all kinds of names for asking a stupid question. I didn't much like it and generally moved on to other stuff. The most recent example was trying to get WoW to run in Linux. I had questions about Wine, and I got run out on a rail.
I ended up getting it to work at 1fps and threw in the towel. Microsoft might suck but atleast stuff works most of the time and you don't have to hack/emulate it...
I can't help but think about being microsoft free tho. I was really close.
-Duff
Late reply but necessary;
Cable / Satalite bills continue to increase because content providers continue increase the costs to broadcast their content. They're not chargeing the advert companies more, they're chargeing the cable / satalite companies more.
Advert revenue does not pay for my cable TV, My cable company does, and thus so do I with my monthly subscriptions. Adverts may serve to subsidise the provider costs, thus makeing the content cheaper for the cable company to pick up, but they do not pay for the content in whole. To force the adverts on me while continueing to charge me a fee to watch will cause me to drop cable, and TV in general like a bad habbit...
Honestly, I get more entertainment out of a box of leggo's than my TV anyway... if they make it more complicated and restricted, I'll just do without.
-Duff
Sure they do. Just don't spend money on DRM'd products. There are plenty of medium available to enjoy IP of you want, Libraries, Radio, Theatres, etc... You don't HAVE to own it.
Wanna see DRM fail? Great, just don't buy it. I don't need it, I don't want it, and I won't buy it. However, give me DRM free content and i'll buy it with a smile. It's really quite simple.
They can push this on us if they want, but ultimately my dollar stays in my pocket until I choose to spend it. If the government mandates this, and people refuse to buy it, Ultimately business will demand that the government change the rules so that they can make money. It's that simple.
-Duff
Not everyone in Oklahoma is a retard... Unfortunately the majority rules. :-\
Hell, I'd bet that half of our politicians would pay handily to work with a corporation such as Microsoft just so they can get a nice little blurb in a national paper that they can give their grandkids... Life in rural America is uneventful at best. Something like this is what makes people feel important. Even if they don't see the greater evil in their actions... You can't blame them; they simply don't know any better...
-Duff
P.S. I've lived in Oklahoma my whole life so I can criticize all I want.
The Beauty of the whole argument is its ultimate fallibility. All forms of media have to exist in an analogue format in order for the human to understand, perceive, and enjoy it. Period. I dare someone to read a digital book that's not represented in an analogue format. Same with Music, same with Art, same with anything.
We are an Analogue species. Everything has to be represented in an analogue format at some point in the process. Analogue can be copied without issue, and has been copied for YEARS with the simplest of equipment. You can imbed watermarks all you want, but it can only affect technology point forward. Fortunately there's enough pre-existing technology available that it'd take 100's of years before DRM could force people into it's own standard.
I know that I'll never have to accept and abide by the DRM if I don't want to. Then again I'm knowledgeable enough about technology that I can build my own recording devices if needed.
-Duff
P.S. As posted prior, I also believe in the Public Library and purchaseing Albums in whole. This is just my choice to make though, and I don't wish to force that on anyone. Still, If I own the CD, I can rip the CD, and enjoy the digital info as I see fit. Worst case I can record the analogue, convert it to digital, and do the same. You don't need a masters degree to do this folks.
Why not?
Then my point is, would it not be perfectly legal to jack the copyrighted works from a public library and distribute them? If the fees were already paid, and the rights already satisfied, then what difference does it make who gets the IP from that source?
Or more to the point, the purpose of a public library is to serve up this information to anyone who so chooses to seek it out. So if 2million people gave up their P2P networks in leu of waiting lists at their local library, Would the RIAA have a leg to stand on?
Is the issue "Where" the rogue IP originated, or that it's rogue to start with? Maybe I'm just unclear on the details. Just seems to me that if the IP has been cleared for public consumption, then it shouldn't matter where the IP comes from or how many copies exist. It was cleared for the public, and is being offered to the public presently. I see no laws or civil codes being broken. again, INAL however.
-Duff
Just go to the public library and listen to the CD in part or whole. Don't know why people don't do this more often, are public libraries that bad?
I've gone to the library to read entire books for study or for enjoyment. I've gone to the library to listen to Music for study or for enjoyment. If this was illegal then how could a public (government funded) library get away with providing this material to the general public for free?
IF I obtain copies of this music or written work for personal use (study, reference, etc...) is this illegal as well? How many college students have broken copyright laws by making copies of text snippets or even whole volumes for reference at a later time? The idea of providing copyrighted material to a public forum for public consumption without direct or indirect payment to the copyright holder is, IMO, the key to beating the RIAA. Or any Copyright holder. If you can find the work in the Public library, then you should be able to beat the rap. INAL though.
My point was that SQL is an example of a system where you use *almost* plain english to request information. The hard logic behind what is actually being done is done so within the client/server relationship. (bassically, when linking 2 tables, you don't have to say, if KeyRecord1.TAbleA = KeyRecord1.TableB then return resutls A,B.C.D.etc, else if Keyrecord1.TableA = KeyRecord2.Tableb then return... blah blah blah)....
You don't have to program the logic behind how to link tables, you simply tell it which field is the key, and what to link on. You tell it which fields you want, you tell it what order you want, and what field to group on. You can even get so complex as to use your own conditional logic in Functions.
But the point is, that the majority of the logic and nuts&bolts programming is done behind the scenes and transparent to the user.
My point is valid. Wheter SQL sucks or is god's gift is not part of the debate.
Truly I don't pretend to have an answer. I'd love to be the brain behind something as revolutionary but alas I'm a hack at best.
SQL is a good example of a language that doesn't need logic checks to perform it's task. I'm not saying that SQL is great or anything, but it's a good example of how data can be managed without being told how to think. It already knows how to think, you're just giving it a subject. The downside is that your results are always limited to the scope of that system's logical mind. (And yes I do know that you can use logic if/then within functions and views, however it's only required in certain instances).
So why can't this premise be expanded so that you tell a program what you want it to do, and then it generates it's own code to which you are unable to edit. You review and QC the resulting procedure, suggest changes and revisions, regen the code, and repeat until you get the product you need. Then imagine if this process was recorded for further reference by other such programs to learn from.
Not terribly different than a chess program learning from it's mistakes. Which has already been done several times over.
*shrug* Like I said, I'm not the brain here. But if I can conceptualize this stuff then you'd think that someone else is 100 steps ahead of me. You'd think anyway.
-Duff
Completely agree. 14 years from now won't look significantly different than today unless changes are made in the software development process. Not just the process but the actual language architecture used.
The best example I can give, is having to manually program decision making logic for every program I write. This should have already been streamlined. Why I have to tell a program how to think EVERY time I write a proc is a mystery to me.
IF/Then has been a crutch for software developers for far too long. There are other aspects of modern day programming that are just as repetitive and inefficient as well, I just couldn't think of a shorter example than this.
-Duff
That's not surprising really. One thing you failed to mention though is the difficulties involved in supporting an audio product.
I worked CLI support for 4ish years way back when. I saw a lot of things come and go, and a lot of problems crop up and get resolved over time. The problem with Audio support is that it's very subjective. Yes I saw plenty of hardware issues with CLI's products that eventually got revised or phased out. I also saw a lot of problems that were indeed caused by environment and / or existing dirty hardware.
As a tech, it's very hard to work these issues as you can try everything in the book and not get any results. You can even get creative (no pun intended) and try tons of your own stuff and not get any better results. Noises (popping or otherwise) are very difficult to remove from a digital AND analogue style system that is common with modern computers. Supporting it / trying to fix it is a major PITA for techs especially when they're flying blind most of the time.
I'm not saying that CLI isn't accountable (I'm not fond of the company now days), but it is possible that they simply couldn't figure it out. I saw a TON of problems like this when the ****** came out. For some reason it just didn't like some systems and we never found anything substantially in common between the systems involved. It was very frustrating. Especially given that the issue wasn't device failure, but rather device performance.
-Duff
P.S. From the support side (at least 8 years ago), we did everything we could to provide a solution as a tech. Be that sending data to developers (and working with them) or by doing extensive callbacks or replacements when necessary. If they don't do it now then shame on CLI. I personally haven't owned a CLI product in 6+ years so I couldn't comment on anything during that time period.
I agree in part that the economy isn't nearly as bad as some enjoy pointing out. Certain sectors are in grave straits as of late, This I agree with. However, most businesses that I've been associated with are doing VERY well lately. (Includes housing, Small service business, Retail, Food Service, general labor, etc...)
I hate to call anyone out, but anyone who says our economy is failing isn't looking at the whole picture. For every loss there is a gain, you just have to be lucky enough and smart enough to see it and take advantage.
Back to topic, HD is overrated and just another excess that most can live without. Yes there is a difference I agree. However, I'd rather spend the money I have on something I need, not an upgrade of something I rarely use anyway. (I"m not a Tv watcher obviously).
Even if the human race and all trace of our existence were to be wiped off the face of the planet, Do you really think things will return to normal now? And if you can answer that question, maybe you can explain just exactly what normal is anyway.
/. Anyway cause it's Friday and we're obviously all bored and ready to go home and fire up the "Green" computer and play WoW....
I think most people get so caught up in the argument that they don't realize how stupid they sound. You do realize that even if everyone in the world got a soft heart and green conscious, we'd still be burning fuels, we'd still be pumping out WV and Co2, We'd still need fires or some type of heat to keep us warm, still need livestock or something to eat, and still need some way to get around.
Even tree-hugging green freaks won't give up their modes of transportation or winter heat, or processed / clean foods. If they did, they'd be living the hermit life in the back woods competing with the wildlife for food. Which would be a fantastic TV show, but I digress.
What really makes me laugh are the people who are fully clothed with picket signs walking around telling industry to stop killing the world. As if the clothes on their back were completely made industry free. As if their food were industry free. Tofu is processed... Common folks... Hybrid cars contain plastics, yes they are derived from petroleum products. Most "Necessary" chemicals and vaccinations are either based on petroleum, or produced in "Industry" that uses petroleum.
Paper signs are produced in factories, guess what, they use petro to power the factory.
The world cannot be saved by us. You can preach, picket, and protest all you want, but some moron somewhere is going to burn something, releasing heat, Co2 and WV into the atmosphere and 'WHAM' we're back to square one. But we might as well argue the what if on
Right?
-Duff
I don't disagree at all. Actually I would use a passive or indirect heating method. Like, use the flame to heat the salt water (which distils into fresh water), to heat the oil (which distils into lighter petro's), that you use to keep the fire burning.
/. flag high and prowd or I'll shoot on sight. LOL
The biggest problem I see with this process will be a zero sum result. Meaning, will the petro you distil be sufficient to keep the fire going to distill the light petro. Can you actually run a net from the process and if so how much? The actuall realized volumes could be considerabily less than what is needed to survive in armageddon.
Techincally you could use the heavy oil wastes for the fire instead of the lighter pseudo refined oils. However, introduceing the heavy petro to a combustion process is much harder. And example would be trying to set a quart of used motor oil on fire. It doesn't start easily. even with an open flame. most of your mid-continent crudes will be significantly heavier so finding a way to get them to combust and return energy will be difficult.
meh... I guess I"m going overboard on this so I'll shaddup. Rest assured it can be done, and if the end does come within my lifetime look me up, just make sure you wave a
-Duff
Not true at all. There's no magic forumla for seperating out fuels that can be used by most modern technologies. All you need is heat, and a general knowlege of distiling. It's that simple.
More to the point, and yes this makes me sound like a redneck, but I can refine a useable fuel for my v8 1995 Chevy truck with a simple 55 Gallon drum, a campfire, and a few feet of pipe. The trick is knowing, or figureing out, what temperatures certian liquids will distill at, and captureing them.
Heated crude gives off gasses, gasses that can be distilled when cooled. This is the essence of refineing fuels, and easily done by any laymen with a gun, lots of petro, and a lot of free time.
Which also serves my "Salt Water" comment previously. If you can figure out how to distil useable fuels, then you should be able to construct desalting facilities as well (heat + tank + pipes for cooling = fresh water... or as fresh as iron oxide will allow).
-Duff
I don't have any Links persey, I don't spend time researching this stuff on the web when I have a Paladin so close to 60. Most of this stuff comes accross my desk in print. A Lot of SPE stuff, but some other industry article stuffs. I'll see if I can find these reads since I more than likely canned them after reading my copies.
If you have access to SPE information that's the best way to start. It's the perverbial horses mouth and a treasure trove of energy related information. The rest of my knowlege is working with engineers that work the areas. I myself am just a lowly non-engineer type so what I get from books, Engineers, SPE papers, and various other (sometimes biased) reads is what I have to work with. Sorry I can't be more help. -Duff
Just wanted to add my .02 since I work the O&G sector. One point most people miss isn't the "Quantity" of oil that remains but the "Quality" of oil. The last super giant field, the ghawar in Saudi, consists of a light/sweet crude that is easily (and cheaply) refined. Most of the oil shale / sands that remain in North America are heavy crudes that are unsuitable for light fuel refinement.
I have more to say but can't think of a way to say it without inviting a lot of /. commentary I'd rather live without.
-Duff
oh heavn forbid the trends reverse (like some predict) and send us into an ice age... could you imagine a world consisting of nothing but /.'ers???
I think I just threw up a bit in my mouth... -Duff
I admit that you could be right about the rural population. However, whole communities can survive off of 1 maybe 2 marginal oil/gas wells. Marginal is of course defined by market price, right now most low producers are profitable even with very low production (good for long term production, bad for consumers right now.)
Where I grew up, most people have guns, and aren't afraid to use them. It wouldn't be hard to "Claim" a well for your very own and defend it. I speak along these lines since the "Mad Maxx" senario was brought up to start with. Wells in the mid-west are a dime a dozen, usually on 20-40 acre spaceing. so one could imagine that if the rual people claimed these for themselves, it might just be the rual communites that outlast the City folk.
Not trying to start any fights here, but you can see that both perspectives have merit. My money is on the rual area's surviving, nothing like wide open country with petro-a-plenty and saltwater running out of our butts to scream survival. Removing the salt wouldn't be a big problem really with all the extra global heat to provide evaporation and all.
I might actually enjoy that senario more than the hustle/bustle of modern life... Then again, I can't go a day without playing WoW so who knows...
-Duff