Slashdot Mirror
RIAA Recommends Students Drop out of College
boarder8925 writes "An MIT student accused of copyright infringement has been documenting her struggles with the RIAA. Upon trying to negotiate her settlement, a representative told her that "the RIAA has been known to suggest that students drop out of college or go to community college in order to be able to afford settlements.""
You'd think MIT would hold up better, honestly.
-Shawn
They can't be serious.
Drop out of school so you can afford the settlement offer, which will severely hinder your earning potential, causing you to pirate more material because you can't afford it... lather, rinse, repeat.
I haven't ever really understood what the RIAA hopes to achieve from all their lawsuits and extortion rackets, I mean all they are doing is alienating their core market the way they have been going recently I can't wait for someone to make a stand against them in court.
I download music from the internet quite frequently, if I like the song I have downloaded I will usually buy the album if I don't like it I delete it, does this mean I am commiting a crime? In my case p2p has caused my to buy more cds than I usually would have if I hadn't of been exposed to certain artists and songs. Is this common I really don't know perhaps other people don't purchase cds by artists they like personally I like to support musicians I like.
One great example my favorite group collective soul release an album entirely self financed, the day it was released I was able to find tracks on p2p which I downloaded and listened to constantly, until my next paycheck came through at which point I went out and purchased 5 copies of the album 2 for me 3 for various family members, I did the same with two of their previous albums, I own every single album they have release in some cases more than one copy of the album, it gets interesting when you consider I discovered this group through p2p in the first place.
GeekServ Unix Consulting Services (http://www.geekserv.com)
Are any of you still buying RIAA label cd's? If you are, you are supporting this crap.
This has to stop.
clearly, if the person is no longer a college student, he/she will be less likely to pirate music. Brillant.
Greedy mofos want to ruin someone's life over a few bucks?
Oh wait... this is America - we advertise cigarettes to children... never mind.
block out the RIAA.
Any fool can criticise, condemn, and complain, and most fools do. - Benjamin Franklin
Even the IRS has been known to setup payment plans for people who dont pay all of their taxes. Its pathetic that the recording industry has basically suggested to someone to give up one of the most important opportunities of their life in order to pay them.
The RIAA is suggesting she may want to drop out of college to pay the settlement IF she agrees to it, because she was complaining that she couldn't afford it. It seems like they're doing what most bill collectors do, which is suggesting you get rid of pretty much every unnecessary expense you have in order to pay them. Of course, what they consider unnecessary may not be the same as what you consider unnecessary.
To agree to the settlement is basically to agree that you wronged them in some way, and should pay them. Once you've agreed to that, how you actually pay the settlement isn't their problem. They may make suggestions, some of which you might find distasteful or even absurd, but the bottom line is they don't care how you pay a settlement you agreed to, so long as you pay it.
I'm no lawyer, but anyone with common sense (and one who sits infront of a judge hopes the judge will have some, if any) would realize that dropping out of college is a non-logical choice. It will diminuish your chances of having a safe financial future, which makes you even less likely to be able to pay that fine. Having students dropping out of college or switching over to community college should NOT be considered as a valid option.
She might have to drop out of school just to pay for the webhosting bill...
That's the way it is with a wiseguy partner.
He gets his money no matter what.
You got no business? Fuck you, pay me.
You had a fire? Fuck you, pay me.
The place got hit by lightning and World War Three started in the lounge? Fuck you, pay me
edfardos
Ah, I KNEW the RIAA had the best interests of the public at heart! I'm glad they're so forward thinking, realizing what's truly important in the world! It makes me all warm and fuzzy inside!
-Daniel
I'd hate to be the PR coorespondent for the RIAA after this one gets out on the 6:00 news! "Yes we recommend that students drop out to pay us an over abuntant amount for songs illegally downloaded. What's that? You have a problem with us sueing for $750 a song when you can by it from iTunes for a $1.00? Expect a letter from our lawyers *evil grin here*."
If she did not redistribute the intellectual property, she ought to just be able to return/destroy it and that is the end of it.
Obviously my opinion, and obviously not RIAA or Record Label's opinion, but do they really gain over the next 20 years by doing this?
Think not!
am i to understand that this person downloaded music off the internet
and is now complaining of the results?
heh, that is what you get for downloading that crap.
On one hand that looks pretty bad that the RIAA would suggest such a thing. On the other, it's all just business right?
The person accused has given up their right to defend herself in court and in doing so has all but admitted to 'wrong doing.' This is pretty much what they deserve. They OWE that money once they enter into a settlement agreement. The fact that they are making any suggestion at all is irrelevant. It does, however, serve to make them seem all the more dark and evil.
She would have been better off getting a jury trial I think...
Don't do the crime if you can't do the time (or pay the fine!). I bet you all think she's a victim.
1. patent the "system of tracking p2p illegal downloads & suing of internet users who download/does not download, et al" 2. Sue RIAA for patent infringement & take all the royalites & penalties they collected so far 3. ??? 4. Profit!!!
I can't believe that the RIAA would stoop to such a level. The scariest part is that perfectly intelligent people believe that everyone who is sued by the RIAA deserves it and is guilty. I wish that there was some simple way to explain to a lay-person how knowing the IP address of someone downloading music doesn't mean much in linking to an actual person. People assume that an IP address is like a social security number, that always links to a single person and always to the same person. This fallacy is one of our biggest problems in infroming lay-people about what the RIAA is doing. Maybe this bit of info will help people to see how evil the RIAA actually is.
Can't you keep your webserver overloading to yourselves?
coral cache
When Galileo was shown the instruments of torture and told to confess, he dropped to his knees and said, "Do with me as you will."
No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
Run Over by the RIAA Don't Tap the Glass
By Cassi Hunt
Either since the day I visited my first aquarium or the day Goldie came into my family's life, our parents have told us not to tap the glass of the fish tank. It's cruel to Goldie -- I understand and respect that. I mean, heck, I am a vegetarian. But would we have many qualms over a little water perturbation if Goldie were, say, a bloodthirsty shark? I'd knock on that glass to the near-cracking point. And in that spirit, I decided to call up my new friend at the RIAA negotiation hotline again. (Hereafter I'll refer to her as Bowie, which means "yellow haired," as I'm pretty sure that's the case.)
Last time I spoke with Bowie, the conversation was pretty much over after she named $3750 as the settlement amount. (I haven't actually agreed to settle yet.) So when I called her again, I asked -- again -- about how to negotiate that amount. I counted on the fact that self-important types wouldn't be inclined to remember a lowly pirate like me. Bowie didn't disappoint. She launched into her spiel about how the RIAA doesn't negotiate settlements. I told her that it was too much to ask for thousands of dollars from a college student who only makes just enough from term and summer employment to still come out a couple thousand in debt.
Bowie replied that the RIAA was oh-so-kind enough to offer a six month repayment plan. At this point, I was beginning to speculate on Bowie's hair color, and decided to switch tactics. I concisely and calmly explained how the situation was ridiculous: they weren't offering a settlement, they were issuing an ultimatum! Let us screw you over gently now, or with chains and whips in court. Surely there must be some flexibility for individual cases.
Well, she replied, they do make allowances if something like a medical emergency comes up. Now we're getting somewhere. "And who would I talk to about a situation like that, because I'd like to talk to them now."
"Me," she replied. Ever feel like your nose has just been flattened by something large and solid? I mean, besides the doors at 77 Mass. Ave. "But you're not in a situation like that."
Oh, but I am. The Institvte has left me with severe bouts of p-set-induced insomnia and a case of stuck-to-desk-itis that recurs two to three times in a semester, then again just before break. And my wallet certainly takes a hit for it.
But as much as I tried to argue that I was in as unique a situation as someone with medical expenses, there was no getting through. Bowie even had the audacity to say, "In fact, the RIAA has been known to suggest that students drop out of college or go to community college in order to be able to afford settlements."
Are. You. Shitting. Me.
There you have it, fellow Techsters: proof of the fantastic levels of absurdity to which the RIAA attack has sunk. The Recording Industry of America would rather see America's youth deprived of higher education, forever marring their ability to contribute personally and financially to society -- including the arts -- so that they may crucify us as examples to our peers. To say nothing of wrecking our lives in the process. I finally understand what the RIAA meant when they told me "stealing music is not a victimless crime" -- the victims hang for all to see.
Please, RIAA -- if any competent representative happens to enjoy flipping through The Tech -- please tell me Bowie is a moronic tool who can't help what the Superior Gray Coverage Golden Blonde hair dye does to her mental facilities. Please tell me you actually care about the futures of the age demographic that buys most of your music (http://www.riaa.com/news/marketingdata/pdf/2004co nsumerprofile.pdf). Your evil pirates are people too, people who enjoy music and almost always still purchase it legitimately. Each has an individual life and circumstances that deserve consideration, if not for the sake of empathy for your f
Here's TFA (in case of an unlikely slashdotting):
Run Over by the RIAA Don...t Tap the Glass
By Cassi Hunt
Either since the day I visited my first aquarium or the day Goldie came into my family's life, our parents have told us not to tap the glass of the fish tank. It's cruel to Goldie -- I understand and respect that. I mean, heck, I am a vegetarian. But would we have many qualms over a little water perturbation if Goldie were, say, a bloodthirsty shark? I'd knock on that glass to the near-cracking point. And in that spirit, I decided to call up my new friend at the RIAA negotiation hotline again. (Hereafter I'll refer to her as Bowie, which means "yellow haired," as I'm pretty sure that's the case.)
Last time I spoke with Bowie, the conversation was pretty much over after she named $3750 as the settlement amount. (I haven't actually agreed to settle yet.) So when I called her again, I asked -- again -- about how to negotiate that amount. I counted on the fact that self-important types wouldn't be inclined to remember a lowly pirate like me. Bowie didn't disappoint. She launched into her spiel about how the RIAA doesn't negotiate settlements. I told her that it was too much to ask for thousands of dollars from a college student who only makes just enough from term and summer employment to still come out a couple thousand in debt.
Bowie replied that the RIAA was oh-so-kind enough to offer a six month repayment plan. At this point, I was beginning to speculate on Bowie's hair color, and decided to switch tactics. I concisely and calmly explained how the situation was ridiculous: they weren't offering a settlement, they were issuing an ultimatum! Let us screw you over gently now, or with chains and whips in court. Surely there must be some flexibility for individual cases.
Well, she replied, they do make allowances if something like a medical emergency comes up. Now we're getting somewhere. "And who would I talk to about a situation like that, because I'd like to talk to them now."
"Me," she replied. Ever feel like your nose has just been flattened by something large and solid? I mean, besides the doors at 77 Mass. Ave. "But you're not in a situation like that."
Oh, but I am. The Institvte has left me with severe bouts of p-set-induced insomnia and a case of stuck-to-desk-itis that recurs two to three times in a semester, then again just before break. And my wallet certainly takes a hit for it.
But as much as I tried to argue that I was in as unique a situation as someone with medical expenses, there was no getting through. Bowie even had the audacity to say, "In fact, the RIAA has been known to suggest that students drop out of college or go to community college in order to be able to afford settlements."
Are. You. Shitting. Me.
There you have it, fellow Techsters: proof of the fantastic levels of absurdity to which the RIAA attack has sunk. The Recording Industry of America would rather see America's youth deprived of higher education, forever marring their ability to contribute personally and financially to society -- including the arts -- so that they may crucify us as examples to our peers. To say nothing of wrecking our lives in the process. I finally understand what the RIAA meant when they told me "stealing music is not a victimless crime" -- the victims hang for all to see.
Please, RIAA -- if any competent representative happens to enjoy flipping through The Tech -- please tell me Bowie is a moronic tool who can't help what the Superior Gray Coverage Golden Blonde hair dye does to her mental facilities. Please tell me you actually care about the futures of the age demographic that buys most of your music (http://www.riaa.com/news/marketingdata/pdf/2004co nsumerprofile.pdf). Your evil pirates are people too, people who enjoy music and almost always still purchase it legitimately. Each has an individual life and circumstances that deserve c
Where a court ruling today made it illegal for the Police to demand the identity of people behind an IP number in filesharing cases.
Why hasn't some greasy lawyer tried to bring up some charges against the RIAA? There's gotta be a suitcase full of cash for any lawyer that brings the RIAA to their knees.
Why read the article when I can just make up a snap judgement?
Sounds to me like the RIAA has found a new business model. Why sell CDs at $10 each (which actually isn't such a bad deal) when you can wait for people to pirate them and then charge them the equivalent of $1000 each?
I don't download music anymore, since it's not worth the risk. Instead, I just buy used CDs, even if they're the same price as the original would have been (although on Amazon, they tend to be much cheaper). It's guaranteed legal by the doctrine of first sale (not to mention, if I have a stack of CDs, how is anyone going to know where I bought them), and yet the RIAA doesn't get a penny.
What did she expect, they're going to pay to send her to law school so they can pay her to extort other pirates? I'm all for piracy, but she knew the risks of her activities and she chose to continue anyways. What's next, filesharers sueing the RIAA? "You made me drop out of college man, I want compensation!"
Wouldn't it make more sense for students to go to a good school so they can get a good job that pays more money so they can pay off their settlements quicker?
There you have it, fellow Techsters: proof of the fantastic levels of absurdity to which the RIAA attack has sunk.
In other news, the local school bully is reported to have deprived students of their milk money and the students were shocked to realize, while standing in the lunch line, that they had no money for their milk. The students were heard to have said, "I can't believe how low this bully has sunk to. He even told me that I'd have to go without milk but I just didn't believe him."
Though, some day the bully gets what's coming to him...and he will claim he's the victim.
:wq
..I'm just going to declare bankruptcy. I'll show them.
adventure-today.com
I don't understand the problem. If you think they're evil, don't consume their products. Why the hell do people treat CDs like friggen crack? You DON'T NEED IT. Paid, free, physical media or downloaded, just stop. The artists are part of the beast as well, why respect them if they're willing participants as well? Don't even listen to it on the radio.
You can't simultaneously support something you find evil and retain a shred of credibility, so just stop. If you can't stop and are willing to break the law for your fix, I humbly suggest that you quite literally have a substance abuse problem and should seek professional help or a twelve-step program or something.
Hell, spend your CD money on booze and then join AA so you can sit around and blame the RIAA for your alcoholism.
This kind of behavior is going to turn any last supporters of these cluesless greedy bastards against them. If Orrin Hatch can still support them in congress after that, then he seriously needs to be voted out of office. Ah, he needs to be voted out of office anyways. Utah, PLEASE do us a favor and get rid of that moron.
Wait a minute, she says "Last fall I wrote an opinion piece on music piracy (How to Avoid Getting RIAAed, Oct. 21, 2005)"
http://www-tech.mit.edu/V126/N13/RIAA1306.html
So an MIT student writes an article detailing how to avoid being sued by RIAA, then gets sued by RIAA? Is she a slow learner or what?
How many politicians are running on a platform of 'get rid of copyright laws'?
Anyone who loves or hates any language, platform, or manufacturer, doesn't know what they're talking about.
Maybe you should talk to the recording artist you borrowed from. Lets get passed the RIAA and post the blame on the artist. Unless it's Metallica, I would hope a musician understood the importance of viewing art and the value of education. In the end, if the artist doesn't value education and museums, you'll probably gain a spot on some random news channel and start the next anti-RIAA movement. If people aren't buying a particular artist because the artist enforced the RIAA's settlement policy, I have a sneaky suspicion consumers wouldn't purchase as many of the artists songs, in effect cutting into the profits of the recording industry. I should probably get my checkbook ready after making a statement against the RIAA; I still have a semester left of school.
I thought the CD was suppose to cost less than the tape?.!
for fucks sake! They are happily railroading her.
Heh, are you serious? 4-5 of the most productive years of your life "lost" to education? College is the only reason I was productive at ALL in my late teens/early twenties... if not for the university I would have sat on a couch playing video games til I was 25.
How do we tell if a particular CD is associated with the RIAA? Suggesting that a student give up their education plans for copying music they likely find of little value is quite disturbing. The punishment must fit the crime, and people who download music place as much value in their collections as a wad of dust under their desks. The RIAA is facing a cultural problem, not a crime ring.
I am careful to not infringe on copyright, but I would like to know who I am buying from.
In order to pay them their money now she needs to have more money available now. To do this the biggest expensce she has assuming she's actually paying for MIT is college. Now if they were smart they would make an offer much like student loans where she pays nothing til she's out of college then some sum of money which now seems trivial but by nature is atleast twice what the pay it now (patent pending) settlement is.
This way they would get a lot more people to agree to a settlement that looks like little money and is far far off (4 yrs) you don't look like loan sharks and you make much bigger proffits off the settlements in the end.
Out of curiousity don't most corporate to person settlements take years to payout?
most productive part of your life lost to "education?"
I am in total disagreement here. I will not judge you for your thoughts, but I feel that education is necessary to be more productive. Otherwise you will have a limited set of ideas which you learnt in high school which were immature in all ways anyway. I agree that education will not guarantee productivity, but to be more productive education always has a positive effect. Going to a college like MIT is not for just the education, it is to do some networking with other people who think like you, to work with others who are great/good thinkers, to work with people who have done extensive work in certain fields. Yes you pay for it, but if there were no education, then how would you even approach these people ? Where would you meet them ? At the local pub/bar/restaurant ? No way ! People in a college come from all over the world to study and exchange ideas... I guess you got my point by now. Education is necessary but not sufficient. One has to use his/her mind as well.
Regardless of where everybody stands on the issue of copyright violation, IP law, etc. the fact is that currently it is US law that distributing music in this fashion is a breach of the civil code.
If you want to come across as mature, then pay the settlement or go to court and fight it. But to say "oh, poor me. poor me. i have to give up my entire higher education because these guys are being mean to me. poor me." is bullshit. It's $3,750. Yeah it's not pocket change, but take a semester off, go wait tables at the local Olive Garden and you'll be able to pay that no problem and get back to school. Painting the situation as black and white, to say that the only possible way you will ever get a higher education is to go to a particular institution at a particular moment in time... is total hyperbole and makes you look completely childish.
Seriously, how insular do you have to be to not know this can happen if you choose to engage in copyright violation? Have you been living in a cave?
---
I especially like how she ended her write up with a link to a "Copyright and distribution information" notice.
So what... if you are stupid enough to keep downloading songs via services that are questionable then I don't feel sorry for you. Take some responsibility and don't do it in the first place. Now, RIAA's tactics are for crap but so are the dorks who download / don't pay for Music. I just can feel sorry for either one.
So what happens to you if you say FU to the RIAA and refuse to pay? I am wondering if any poor college students just refused outright.
Do you go to jail? Do you have your house sold at auction?
Curious minds want to know.
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
Keep on treating people in this country like revenue cows and its all going to back fire on the RIAA.
Suing children as young as 12? telling people to drop out of MIT?
Someone has to put an end to the RIAA. ITS CALLED A BOYCOTT!
American music isn't all that great anyway ladies and gents. Try listening to some European music and what the rest of the world is raving about. Teach the RIAA how they really can lose major revenue by not buying from labels that are partners with the RIAA.
Die, RIAA. Die painfully, and take every label in the room with you.
There was a time when I was a bill collector. I once suggested to a lady that she sell her wedding ring. She was a widow. That same day I quit that job and I've never had a job related to collections since. Telling someone to drop out of college so they could pay a bullcrap settlment... that's even worse than telling a widow to sell her ring. I might have suggested someone let go of their past, but I didn't tell anyone to flush their whole future. That's a special kind of low. BTW, the next day I went to that lady's house and told her that if she didnt' pay the debt, the company would drop the issue because it wasn't worth going to court over and they would write it off. The company did just that. The RIAA on the other hand... evil pricks.
MadOgre.com
"Go and invest that $150,000 in your own business and you'll be much happier (and successful)."
Sure, because all businesses succeed (hint: less than 1 in 10 do). Or because it's easy to get financing for a business plan when you're 18 -- don't forget that student loans and other financial aid are pretty much guaranteed. Or because people at the age of 18 all have the skills to run a business.
That "education" you speak of so disparagingly is what gives us a workforce that innovates, that has the knowledge necessary for complex jobs... like in the fields medicine (practice or research, you pick), or engineering, etc.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
Sounds good to me, maybe cause them to at least investigate prior to filing lawsuits, probably not though.
IA definitely NAL
Algerath
It involves lots of pyrophoric materials, and some oxidizers.
RIAA no longer represents me nor Western Civilization.
The executives of Recording Industry of Artists in America is now antithema of our advanced society.
By advocating a lower educational pursuit in hope that they selfishly hope to attain a goal for a subpar economic society in which they can continue to rob from the budding artists (and engineers) of our great society.
I hope our court systems and governments recognize this foolishness and put an end to this organization.
Nothing is gain anymore from such a facists dream.
She did the action in question. She is responsible for the penalties for undertaking that action.
/hill\ 55mph construction zone - cop at bottom of hill).
We all have to make hard choices every day.
The last time I broke a speeding law, it was pretty bogus. I still paid for the ticket and took the classes. IMHO- that particular speeding ticket set up was unfair (basically 70mph
She chose to download songs. She probably also foolishly didn't use programs like peer guardian. She also got unlucky.
Yes- Riaa are weasels. But by now, surely we ALL know that if you download copyrighted material you are risking a 3kish fine (or being ruined in court if you tried to fight it).
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
http://web.mit.edu/finaid/tuition_fees/index.html and don't forget the travel money.
Less than 10%? Just pay the fine and go on with your life, but please don't turn it into a fight out of principle. You'd expect MIT students to be either a lot less ignorant of the law, or savy enough not to get busted if they do break the law.
I really wish the RIAA would just give up already. Music theft has become far too widespread to ever be contained. If they just drop all these attacks on people and focus all this time and energy on making themselves for marketable they would be in a much better position with the public and they would definitely make up the money they lose to piracy.
I flat out have stopped purchasing CDs because of this BS. I wish others would do the same and show them that the public they are attacking are the ones who pay their bills.
Before you mod this as flame-bait, hear me out because that's not my intent.
I have no knowledge of this incident other than the essay I just read. An essay that is clearly written from the point of view of a (financially) struggling MIT student who has been fined by the RIAA to the tune of $3750.
Now had the essayist taken the tack that the RIAA is incorrect in fining her that amount because she didn't really illegally download music, then fine. But in her last paragraph she writes, "Sure, if you commit a crime against someone, you should be held accountable." Which can reasonably be translated to saying: "Sure what I did was illegal and I should be held accountable."
So her main complaint is that they are trying to get her to pay money that she either A. doesn't have or B. doesn't want to pay them. Now I get mad when I have to pay a parking ticket which only costs $25, and I work full time. So I can understand and even empathize with her point of view that being faced with a $3750 encumbrance while going to college is, at the least, frustrating.
But again, the thrust of her argument isn't that she shouldn't have to pay that amount, just over the terms in which she is being asked to pay it. Is it right of the RIAA to suggest (and pay attention to that word, because that's all they did...suggest) that the essayist get stop spending money on education and instead earn money to pay off her debt? It's certainly not popular; it plays into the hands of those who believe the RIAA is on shaky ground to begin with; and it suggests, appropriately, that the RIAA's bottom line is money--but none of this is news to anyone who has been following this story.
In a nutshell, what I see here is a college student who, having been identified as breaking the law and being asked to pay reparations is outraged that those whom she owes are asking for the money at an inconvenient time.
http://www.eff.org/IP/P2P/RIAA_v_ThePeople/P2P_bkt cy_memo.pdf
I am in total disagreement here.
:)
I welcome and enjoy disagreements
will not judge you for your thoughts, but I feel that education is necessary to be more productive.
I graduated in the bottom 8% of my high school in Illinois and never went to college. At 32 I feel I am more than 5 times more productive than most people in my various business markets (and my billable rate confirms that). I don't know that education teaches you productivity -- hard work and seeing value for your work makes you more productive IF there is a market for enhanced productivity.
but to be more productive education always has a positive effect.
I'm not sure how. Many of my college educated employees with expensive educations (still paying those loans, too) have the lowest skills in basic tasks (spelling, grammar, math, and personality). I'm surprised how often I had to train them on something that is normally earned from experience in the field. What exactly do people learn in college, it seems its 80% liberal arts that aren't even accurate sometimes.
Yes you pay for it, but if there were no education, then how would you even approach these people ?
I built my network of clients through hard work -- I billed myself out at a very low rate early on (fixed rate work actually). As I learned (my education was paid for on the job by the client basically), I became a better tool to be used by others. When I did a good job, I would ask for references and referrals -- which I always received. As I hit my maximum billable hours, I brought on other non-college employees that I eventually made partners and spun off their own businesses over time. My network is vast, and my network is composed of people who want to be efficient and know that their work lives exist because they save other people time and money.
People in a college come from all over the world to study and exchange ideas...
And I've seen it all the time in the business world -- MBAs with no business knowledge, Doctorate degreed engineers demanding more salaries than they'd produce for their employers, etc.
I'm not saying college is bad, I just believe that about 60% of students in college today are putting themselves behind. Why work from 21 to 65 when you can work extra hard from 16 to 45 and be ahead 20 years earlier?
Damn, why is it that I never have mod points when I need them!?
Fookin 'ell, you're dumb.
Seems like it is time to listen to some non RIAA owned music. Go out and support your local bands, and Internet musicians. If you create the music yourself that you want to hear, it will take the wind out of the music industry's sails -- and their sales.
Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
You never know, If this girl stays in college, she might learn to sue people for illegally breathing in perfume they didn't buy! EVERYONE would be a potential litigant! Where would the RIAA be then?
Simple as that. They abuse there customers left right and sideways. I find it funny that they wonder why sales are going down. They blame it on piracy but the truth is concert sales are also dropping.
1. Music is too expensive. I can buy a DVD of a Movie for the same price as a CD. Don't give the crap about how I will use the CD more then the DVD that has NOTHING to do with the cost to produce the product.
2. I can not find any music I really want to buy. I have gone to Launch to see what new artists are out. Nothing really grabs me. I listen to the radio. Nothing really new there. The fact that concert sales are also dropping should make it clear it is the product and not the piracy that is causing the issue.
3. I really would love to see the record companies get a real hard look from the government. Their accounting, business practices, and yes dealing in drugs. How many recording artists have died from drug use? How many of them have had drugs provided to them by employees of the the music industry? This will never happen. They Music Industry will hide behind "artistic" freedom and start screaming about how it is just like McCarthy in 50s.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
I never used the term "evil" seriously before, because the concept of good and evil is pretty alien to me (I am a moderate Christian from Europe). But suggesting to drop out of college to pay a settlement for some p2p music stuff... (stealing would be if the company looses something, which is not the case with copying digital content).
I do think content producers (and software writers for that matter) need protection, but that?
Ask yourself, if you worked your butt off for some software and someone who is not willing to pay for it and would not use it if they had to but copied it and offered it for share, should they be made to drop out of college to pay for the settlement?
If they were actually interested in the dollar amount, you'd be right.
But the legal fees of harassing these people probably offset the actual settlement money by a significant amount.
The *AA are looking for the PR value ("We're prosecuting thousands of file-sharers for fill-in-ludicrous-dollar-amount-here") to take to the legislators to try and get Yet More Draconian DRM passed into law, versus actually persuing the bulk disc copiers that actually make up most of the bootleg business, 'cause that'd be *hard*.
Then they can't pirate your precious CRAP!
After all, anyone with a PC is a suspect....
Sure, because all businesses succeed (hint: less than 1 in 10 do).
That's a myth fact, to be honest. The "10" number is based on businesses that were never set up in the first place, maybe because people went in without actual knowledge of what a business needs to succeed. In my experience, the number is closer to 6 in 10 if not more. Take out restaurants and boutiques and the number is even higher. I've had 2 failures out of about 20 that I ran in my entire life, so I feel I'm ahead.
Or because it's easy to get financing for a business plan when you're 18 -- don't forget that student loans and other financial aid are pretty much guaranteed.
Guaranteed financing is why education is so expensive -- high demand for education with low supply, and lots of people go when they shouldn't. I have only borrowed ONCE for a business. I came from a poor family, too.
You can start a business for less than US$20,000 right now. That means working very hard for 6-12 months (2-3 jobs if needed). If you want a safety nest egg, work hard for 12-18 months and save every dollar, live in a smaller residence, and focus on building clients.
That "education" you speak of so disparagingly is what gives us a workforce that innovates, that has the knowledge necessary for complex jobs... like in the fields medicine (practice or research, you pick), or engineering, etc.
That's funny because I've worked with medical research companies (two large ones in Lake County, Illinois) and I'm amazed at how many research doctors are foreigners with foreign educations. On top of that, I travel the world at least 2-3 times a year, and I see more innovation outside of this country than I do here. I'm not sure education has helped this country, and with the way our trade power is falling lately, I think we tricked people in the world far too long on the idea that we're smarter or more efficient or more civilized than others.
someone else already suggested this, although they suggested it sarcastically. I want to see someone do it.
Wait, I thought that eMusic didn't do DRM?
Did I miss something? I thought they were straight-up MP3 files, pretty much the only place aside from you know where that sells them.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
If you only vote for someone that you agree with on 100% of the issues you would not be able to vote for anyone except yourself.
OK, I have been guilty of defending the business motivation behind the RIAA from time to time, but that shit is over.
Are these fucks out of their mind? Drop out of school or go to community college? This would be horrible advice to anyone going to college, but this is a friggin MIT student. You know, the type of people that come up with some of the coolest shit ever. The type of people that helped develop the technologies the RIAA is exploiting right now.
Did anyone at the RIAA think of what it would be like to piss these people off? I mean, this type of thing could not only unite the MIT campus into taking offensive action, but the whole lot of prestigious technical Universities as well.
Plus, the run of the mill uneducated citizen can figure this one out. "MIT is where the smart people go. The RIAA says that they want this student to drop out so they can pay them. What the hell."
I sure hope the PR guy for the RIAA drops his intestines when he gets this news.
College student recommends RIAA representative Cobain's himself.
-- dR.fuZZo
I read that. They knowingly broke the law. Nevermind it's an idiotic law, this person *knew* it was illegal and they did it anyway.
Sure, they deserve a fine. Sure, the RIAA is being idiotic.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
How's her situation any different than say a divorce settlement were the wife gets the kids and the house, and I get stuck with lengthy alimony?
And this is why the RIAA should be a bunch of college dropouts. If they recommend that us, the students in college, dropout to pay them back for what should be free materials (art)... then they have their degrees revolked by their respective colleges.
Give me a productive error over a boring, mundane and unproductive fact any day. ~Anon
slashdot goes further into the spin zone with every piracy article published - might as well say the Government wants a man to quit work, lose income, and stop supporting his family, because they arrested and jailed him for robbing a convenience store.
/everybody does it/ who commit the infringement that put themselves at risk and now have to suffer the consequences. Might as well blame the police for crime. If there weren't any police, nobody would be arrested for theft!! Whoooppeeee!!!!
You do the crime - you do the time. RIAA is not the ones causing people to drop out of college - it's the perps who though they could get away with it
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
How is that in any way flamebait?
Funny you should say that. This is how I vote.
Although the RIAA has no reason to phone me, I got the same tactic when I was avoiding the debt collectors for about the same amount in credit card debt. I believe the bank was Capitol One, actually, whose creditor scolded me like a soot-nosed child for letting my debts accumulate like that. When I told him that I was (at the time) unemployed because I was a dedicated, full-time student at a top college, he snarkily responded: "well that tells us a lot about your priorities!" and continued to berate me for borrowing money that I refused to pay back because of my selfish, wanton thirst for higher education!
I think it's in a training manual they have to memorize...
... stop buying records! Once you people there start to act and make a stand, hurting where matters, they will start to listen.
Scientia est Potentia
if I like the song I have downloaded I will usually buy the album [...] does this mean I am commiting a crime?
It's not a crime. It's perfectly legal to voluntarily give money to an illegal price-fixing cartel, although the morality is obviously questionable.
I'll probably be modded down for this...
What if we took 1-2 years and stopped buying music, at least music that is not indepentant. Also, don't steal music. This way for the next couple of years the RIAA will have no money coming in, and the singers are already rich. Lets make them appreciate us, lets stop this stupidity. Vote with our dollars. Stop going to concerts! Remember when Pearl Jam (i think) was upset because tickets were $27? Now that won't even cover the cheap seats. The are only a Multi-Billion dollar industry because we give them the money.
Stop pirating and sharing music so they cannot scream about the fact that people are trading music, therefore they are not buying music.
So I heard new music, bought dozens of albums (with *half* of the purchase price going directly to the artist), didn't break any laws, and didn't support the RIAA.
You have to ask who really profits from these lawsuits. It's not the RIAA and it's certainly not the artists. It's always the lawyers. When the RIAA want something they always go to their lawyers first. They don't know any other way.
This is why the lawsuits keep continuing and we get stuck with things like DRM. Despite independent opinion polls indicating that these tactics only alienate their customers and ultimately encourage piracy.
They have stated that they are using a "Carrot and Stick" approach. This sums up the mindset of the RIAA perfectly. No other industry gets away with treating their customers like donkeys. With fat cat execs riding on their backs beating them with lawsuits when they don't do as their told. Of course there is the Carrot of legal downloads but it's attached to the stick by a piece a string called DRM which means the Carrot is always out of reach of the customer.
In reality the lawyers only serve their own interests not the RIAA or the artists.
If the RIAA / MPAA allowed DRM free downloads at a price which reflects the value of the content then piracy will decline. It'll never disappear but it'll be a lot lower than it is today. Until they realize this and start treating the buying public as individual valued "Customers" instead of "Consumer" donkeys piracy will continue to grow. But this isn't in the Lawyers interest is it!
The RIAA will argue that there may be a financial loss, and need to be recompensated. This I believe is rightfully up for debate, as jury is still out on whether MP3 downloading has affected profits. Just remember that not everyone at these record labels are dickheads - many are just normal people, trying to support their family, etc. I do believe that the downloading of these MP3s without having paid for it at least once, is a crime, just like stealing food from a grocery store would be. Morally you are obligated to A) honour that contract and pay for the song, or B) choose not to support RIAA artists, and support other artists who permit free downloading.
..........FULL STOP.
Reminds me of my college days when I found out that my Mom had secretly opened a credit card account and the electric utility in my name. When my Mom stopped paying on the card, they came after me. They wanted me to file a police complaint against my Mom or they will force me to pay for the bill. I told them to go take a hike. One, I wasn't going to file charges against my Mom even though she deserved it. Two, as a college student who didn't have any money and worked part time, good luck in trying to collect. It was the same situation with the electric company. I had to wait seven years for these items to fall off my credit record but I didn't pay a dime on any of this.
Many years later, I found out that the electric company put a notice on my credit record that I defaulted on a bill from a previous apartment that I rented. How much did I owe? Only $2.57 USD. Go figure.
These RIAA lawsuits remind me of the McCarthy era witch hunts: they have the capacity to ruin lives, sacrificing them to some perceived threat to societal organization or business models.
But unlike witchhunts 50 years ago, these have little to no public support. Everyone lives in fear, and few in the public think the issue is a problem. Likely, no amount of propagandising is going to convince the public at large that their illegal downloading of free music of the internet is going to harm multi-billion dollar multi-national corporations. Lawsuits like these only make them look petty and vindictive. They have the effect of making people less willing to purchase music from RIAA labels; instead, people just become sneakier about their downloading, if they're savvy, or hope that because there have been relatively few lawsuits to date, they have a statistical likelihood of not getting caught that makes it in their favour to continue.
I'm not about to say that musicians don't deserve remuneration for their talents. But these lawsuits are verging on extortion. People's natural inclination is self-interest, unfortunately, which means that as long as they can get something for free, they will attempt to. I don't propose to make musicians charity cases, where their income is contingent on the public taking pity on them and paying them in accordance with their ability and appeal. But something has to give -- we now have unlimited supply of recorded musical content. Regardless of what demand exists, the price rational people should be willing to pay for money is $0. These lawsuits, while they're attempting to make it riskier to pay nothing for music, will be ineffectual.
$150,000?? Damn, that is a lot of money. Not wanting to be smug or anything, but It would cost you about £19,000 , or $33,000 to go to Oxford or Cambridge in the UK for 4 years, including accomodation and food.
If you listen to the crap put out by the RIAA, what are you doing in college? Psychology or English?
Like all "bill collectors", they want you to agree with them in this. "Paying me is the most important thing you can do with your money. A nice, expensive college is optional. Any college at all is optional. Food is optional. Paying me is mandatory."
It's a strong negotiation position, that's all. If you make the mistake of agreeing without pushing back...well...remind me again, who's quickly parted from his money?
I'm actually a little bit surprised part of the *AA's bill collector's spiel didn't start "Do you have life insurance..."
Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
Go to school, but go to a state school (and frankly $150,000 might be possible, but it's nowhere near the average, and way inflated) and max out student loans.
Then invest the extra (I know you'll want to spend it on beer, but you must be dedicated) and use the difference in interest to pay off everything.
The average interest rate for student loans is around 3% (please don't be a prick and dig up what you THINK the interest rate is, it's an estimate) and you can easily find mutual funds that return 8-9% consistently and are quite safe (not completely, but safe enough). You keep the difference, and eventually through the miracle of compounding interest, the market pays for school for you.
Sorry dada, but if you were as bright as you act, you'd have figured that one out on your own.
And did I mention about half of the interest on your loans is subsidized? Mmmm free money...
"The government grants you rights, not the other way around."-- beav007. Yes, these people really exist...
So then where do you get the technical experts to support businesses, or do you propose everyone sell collectable socks to each other over the internet?
It means there will be more stupid people willing to buy their shit products. I'd love for an RIAA rep to call me personally so I could verbally abuse them for a few minutes...
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
While it may not be against the letter of the constitution, it's clear as day that this is against the spirit of it.
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
Isn't Oxford heavily subsidized by British taxpayers? I heard Cambridge is about £7000 a year for Cambridge, so I think you're correct, but I'm surprised it is this cheap. Then again, I don't know if there is government subsidy in either case, which means the cost to the taxpayer is much higher.
The only "extortion" they're doing is going around people who are guilty of copyright infringment against their members, and negotiating relatively cheap (compared to the fines you'd suffer if they took you to court) out of court settlements.
Oh, that's the ONLY "extortion"? Oh my, how mistaken I've been, the RIAA is just worried about doing justice, how heroic of them!</sarcasm>
And, quite honesty, in 2006, if you're being sued for distributing someone else's work on a network that makes them available to millions of anonymous strangers, then you only have yourself to blame.
Yes, the problem is when you didn't do it but the RIAA says you did.
It's NOT justice if you have to spend thousands of dollars to prove your innocence.
Another thought: Is that law good if it forces you to pay extra taxes to get a product that is under absolute control of a monopoly?
I'd agree with the lawsuits if the RIAA didn't force people to buy only their products - I'm talking about forcing distributors and radio stations NOT to publish music from independent artists. If I bought an original CD and later I download one of the files in it (because it got scratched or something), I'd get sued by the RIAA anyway.
And don't get me started into DRM.
Wow, way to be the stereotypical yank. Believe it or not, another reason to go to university is academia, not so you can make a pile of cash.
Or... if you still like the artists but hate the RIAA, buy the CD used. No more money goes back to the RIAA and you still have the CD.
This is such a misconception. Buying used CDs contributes to a demand for them. This makes people more inclined to buy new CDs, since they can be resold relatively easily. Just consider how much more willing people are nowadays to buy the latest gadget of the year, just because they know they can offload it on eBay next year with no trouble.
Sorry, buying used CDs is not the answer.
So then where do you get the technical experts to support businesses, or do you propose everyone sell collectable socks to each other over the internet?
The best experts come directly out of the business world themselves -- they've grown by climbing the ladder. Since America has switched from an entrepreneur-based business culture to an MBA-driven one in the past 20 years, I believe you can show that American businesses are the worst run -- micromanaged, overbudgeted, underperforming and inefficient. The more I research business opportunities in the US versus other countries, the more I see why I travel as much as I do -- there is MUCH more money to be made elsewhere, and in less time.
I agree with last post - why is this flamebait?
The colleges can't block them out - there's no direct contact between the students' PCs and any RIAA-controlled servers (well maybe if an RIAA employee is on a p2p network posing as a user - but they don't necessarily sit at RIAA HQ to do that). The problem is, the RIAA bullies/subpoenas/asks ISPs to give out IP addresses that are known or suspected to have downloaded illegal content from sharing networks, etc.
A better approach might be for the colleges to block access to file sharing networks - although this is pretty tough to do if it's true peer-to-peer. I think they'd have to actually sniff packets and try to determine when someone is using protocols from the major file-sharing platforms. Obviously, huge privacy issues here as well as cutting online freedom in order to protect the students.
The real answer is probably going to have to be a "soft" one. Educate students, enact university-level policies to help protected students legally, etc.
If argument and discussion have not enlightened our politicians to the extortion and exorbitant attacks by RIAA/MPAA on consumer what will it take? When will those charged with engaging in the interest of the people actually become engaged? The last time somebody created a base of law to protect their industry and exploit the consumer they dumped in the Harbor in Boston.
Unfortunately the technophiles, the technologists and the consumer base that supports the behavior that RIAA/MPAA is objecting too is the same disinterested political groups that never get involved in electoral politics. The same group that talks about enlightened borderless societies of the Internet are not enlightened enough to act on the most obvious of political issues impacting their lives.
RIAA/MPAA has to be stopped sooner or later. Constraint of use, the simple principles of ownership, and the intellectual merits of copyright protection are appropriate debatable issues. The issue is racketeering and violation of consumer rights supported or not by the law base is anathema to the continuation of the contract between producer and consumer. If I can't use the property I purchase then in what way is the sale valid?
Illegal pirating of music is an issue that has to be dealt with, but if the industries will not adapt to the realities of the world society will move on without them. In fighting the advancement of digital music and constraining the practices of consumers MPAA/RIAA is taking the role of the caveman fighting the advances of the wheel. The artists are not happy, the consumers are not happy, the market model is flawed, and at what time has a capitalist society ever allowed a broken production consumer model to continue?
RIAA/MPAA has to be stopped. The consumers who know about the topic must become engaged to overcome the strategic political position of the entrenched bureaucracies of luditism within the industry.
--- Location Unknown
For all of you moderators who gave this guy Interesting and Insightful mods -- in spite of the many excellent replies which rip his position to shreds -- I recommend you check out his site www.buymychild.com. He's asking for donations for his wife to have a tubular reversal because she "had no choice" but to have her tubes tied. The fact that there are shitloads of babies waiting to be adopted doesn't seem to matter to this guy. And this "had no choice" bullshit smacks of the very same "victimization culture" that he portrays in his post above -- "the evil forces of the world are conspiring against me, even though all I want is free music and the ability to disregard needy orphans and sire my own offspring. Why is life so unfair to me?"
You are absolutely right. A hard-working person with a clear goal can get ahead in life. For a fair amount of people, this means going to college to study a specific field. You were lucky(and hard working) in that you applied business tactics(i.e. getting your foot in the door at a lower rate). But, as you will most likely agree, what works for some does not work for all. Some people need college to help them figure out what they want to do. And what they like to do at 18 isn't always what they like to do at 23.
Now, I agree that working extra hard is the best way to get ahead. I currently am working two jobs, one as a network engineer and the other as an assistant admin pulling about 60 hours a week. I also just graduated college 8 months ago. I don't think that quite that many people are putting themselves behind by going to college, but I think many of them are going to more expensive schools to get the college experience or what they feel is a better education when all they need to go is to the community college for two years and finish up at the nearest state college.
Statistics also seem to show that out of college, the average student will be paid better than the high school graduate. I personally could have made probably the same out of high school, but it would have been much more work and much harder to get a job. I've found that many employers don't care what school one goes to, just as long as they went. And some of my friends went to school just for that. For them, it was an extension of high school and after five years they continue to have no direction.
I think that the value of the education and the value of the time spent is highly dependent on the person. You were highly motivated, and in turn are highly successful. You would have probably excelled in college, but are still successful in the real world. I wasn't highly motivated until my third year into college, and I believe it took those extra few years to help motivate me.
Whether the extra years are wasted is disputable. The numbers you gave show a 15 year gap between the hard working hs grad and the working college grad. I'll bet that if they are both hard working individuals doing the same job for the same amount of time, the college grad will come out with more money in the end. Why? Because he has that piece of paper that employers like to see. This won't be true in every case (such as yours), but I think it is true overall.
Since the RIAA insanity started.. I have purchased ZERO CDs ....It pains me sometimes because I want to buy CDs.. I almost do it.. and then refuse to because of how they are behaving.
I'm all for boycotting the RIAA, but consider buying CDs from indie labels. Most of the great new music being recorded today is being released on non-RIAA labels anyway.
What's the ugliest part of your body? Some say your nose, some say your toes, but I think it's your mind. -Zappa
I suspect, when it comes right down to it, the RIAA's policy as far as lawsuits are concerned really have nothing to do with enforcing the law. When you look at the pattern of their lawsuits, it almost seems that they intentionally avoid sparing anyone - be they children, old women who have never used a computer before, or people who more than likely had someone sneak onto their unsecured wi-fi network. These are people who are either obviously innocent, or don't deserve to be subjected to lawsuits that could cost them tens of thousands of dollars. At their worst, most of these folks a being nailed for a few bucks worth of music. The punishment doesn't particularly fit the crime, in this case, and the RIAA likely knows this. Frankly, the penalty for downloading copyrighted material is rather terrifying. The lawsuits filed by the RIAA are an attempt to capitalize on this terror. They're not designed to stop dedicated pirates. As many people have pointed out in the past, dedicated pirates will get what they want regardless. However, by creating an atmosphere where you just don't know who's going to get sued next, they intimidate your 'average Joes' into sticking off the filesharing networks. The fact that these lawsuits pretty much pay for themselves is an added bonus.
What really gets my goat about this entire campaign is that it's done at great expense to many of its victims. These are people who are being subjected to lawsuits for no purpose other than to make an example to the rest of the country of just what happens when you mess with the music industry. They bear an unfair burden, under the law, to scare those the industry can't catch in the act into getting in line. I hope this madness comes to an end soon.
http://www.riaa.com/about/members/default.asp
I plan on boycotting every one of these labels until the RIAA stops ruining kids' lives with these draconian lawsuits. Sure, illegally downloading copyrighted songs is wrong, and I don't oppose the idea of some kind of legal action against people who, say, download and redistribute 10,000 of them. But the penalties for small-time downloaders are getting totally out of proportion to the offenses committed. The RIAA is using a sledgehammer to kill flies, and it will continue to do so as long as we continue to give its members money.
-K.Ai.-
They can only garnish, I think, 25 percent of your wages. It's hardly worth dropping out of MIT because of a 25 percent pay cut at your work-study job at the Sports & Rec center, and they know it.
$150,000 for 4-5 years plus 4-5 years of your most productive part of your life lost to "education?" Go and invest that $150,000 in your own business and you'll be much happier (and successful).
Assuming your $150k mark is correct, you're suggesting a 17-19 year old would be able to get that amount over a 4 year period for their own business? I highly doubt it. Secondly, not everyone is cut out to run a business, even a small one. Personally, I don't think I'd be able to do it. More importantly, it doesn't really interest me.
I got a job paying $50k out of college (which required a degree). I was able to live at home for 2 years after graduation paying for my share of the utilities and a small rent to my mom (~200/month). In those 2 years, I was able to pay back the roughly $30-35k in low interest school loans I had accrued in college. My investment has already paid for itself. College was quite worthwhile to me, not to mention I like to learn.
I'm not saying college is the only way to go. Way too many people go just because they don't know what else to do. Certainly, if you have the aptitude for running a business, go for it! I knew two brothers in high school that grew their lawn cutting business to the point where once they graduated from HS, had their own fleet of trucks/trailers and lawn care hardware. Their dad even quit his job to work for them.
Likewise, you could go into the trades after high school and probably do about as well as I have. But to suggest college isn't worthwhile to most people, isn't accurate.
There's more you can do than just boycott RIAA labels. Here's some ideas:
1. Write your congressman - you can even do it via email. Follow this link for a really simple way to do that. Will they listen? If enough of you complain they will. (Don't be negative and say democracy doesn't work.)
2. When you talk to your friends, let them know this is going on. Believe it or not, a lot of people don't know about this issue. The more people you tell, the more this becomes an issue.
3. This stuff is making the mainstream news. When you see this issue come up in a newspaper, write a letter to the editor about it. More people read letters to the editor than articles in the paper. Tell people the ideas in this message to get them to not support RIAA.
4. Complain on artist websites and give artists bad press. Not planning on buying the latest Bruce Springsteen CD? Why don't you write him and tell him you're not doing it because he's on a RIAA label. Big artists are not "victims" of decisions by their labels.
5. Buy indie labels and let people know you're buying indie labels.
6. Buy a t-shirt about this. Here's some to choose from:
#1, #2, and #3
Your other alternative is to not give a fuck like everyone else. Everyone has to have their issue and maybe this one isn't yours. Hopefully I've given you some ideas for getting involved about something though.
----- obSig
-- Stu
/. ID under 2,000. I feel old now.
note: if the parent poster is screwing around, personally I dont care.
Actually, if she had the grades and the money to get into M.I.T. , she should have had enough 'smarts' to not do what she did.
Think of this as intellectual Darwinism at it's finest. If she had no clue about pirating , she is NOT
M.I.T. material.
Either way, it proves beyond simple reasoning why any student should be able to just go in unimpeded by a "Prestige Class" syndrome - no admissions committee, no ding letters, no "crafted to fail even the smartest" scholarships - just purely open admissions. This way people do get to learn, and possibly have less worry about staying there as they arent beholden to admissions critieria.
Let her learn, then tack on the $5000 fee to the student loan as a suggestion. To suggest a destiny of a debtors prison is hinting that they dont even care how blatant they are. They just want their money, and they dont care if they look like Boss Tweed.
Of a more ironic note, note that open admissions universities were some of the first to be targeted while the Ivies all but get delayed action or get bypassed in the name of "education". It's something to think about every time you see another lawyer grow his or her horns and work another case for the *AA.
What is left to Darwin will be made up when the matters of survival are made more primal. What is not left to Darwin and externally corrected in favor of the many will remove the purpose to go postal.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
I can't wait until someone finaly writes a virus that infects you, installs P2P software and open shares all your music files. At least this way there will be a documented way that you can claim your music files were shared without your knowledge or consent. If hundreds of thousands of computers get infected and everyone starts crying fowl and actually fights a RIAA extortion in court because of this, it may force the RIAA to have to issue a cease and desist or warning prior to trying to extort money from everyone.
Oxford and Cambridge are actually the cheapest universities in britan to go to. There is the three thousand a year tuition fee, which is standard over all universities, and the accomodation, which is on campus for your entire time there. This means you only pay for the accomodation for the 32 weeks or so the uni is teaching, so you can run off home to hang out with your parents during holidays. This differs from other universities, which would have you living in rented accomodation after the first year, accomodation which you'd have to rent at a full 52week contract. That is how I understand it, anyway.
And yes, you are right. The universities are heavily subsidized. The important part, however, is that the best universities in the country do not cost loads more than the worst universities, so an intelligent child from a poor household can go and get his/her Oxbridge degree, instead of being limited to a shitty polytechnic because of the economic situation of his/her parents.
Originally, there was not even the tuition fees, so that you could attend university for 3 years on very little money. It pisses me off how 'unlabour-like' the current goverment is.
Ok, sounds good. Be nice to animals because she's a veggie.
But would we have many qualms over a little water perturbation if Goldie were, say, a bloodthirsty shark? I'd knock on that glass to the near-cracking point.
Except if they're not cute and cuddly.
Please, RIAA -- if any competent representative happens to enjoy flipping through The Tech -- please tell me Bowie is a moronic tool who can't help what the Superior Gray Coverage Golden Blonde hair dye does to her mental facilities.
Calling your accuser a moron does much to further your image as someone who is innocent.
Your evil pirates are people too,
So you're admitting you're a pirate. Acceptance is the first step.
people who enjoy music and almost always still purchase it legitimately.
Almost only counts in hand grenades and horseshoes.
Each has an individual life and circumstances that deserve consideration, if not for the sake of empathy for your fellow man, then for the sake of business sense.
Your life and circumstances are irrelevant to the situation. You chose to make a decision about whether to pay for a product or service. You chose not to pay. The RIAAs business sense tells them that to allow people to not pay for the product would mean they and the music industry would not survive. Self preservation and all that.
Sure, if you commit a crime against someone, you should be held accountable.
Which is exactly what is taking place.
But I find it horrifying that anyone would single-mindedly and without compassion process people like a meat grinder set to purée.
No one said the penalty would be pleasant.
So while the RIAA continues to play the part of shark, I'll continue to stand behind the glass, tapping away, wondering which of us is on displa
Which goes back to my opening remarks about your lack of resolve about being a vegetarian and being kind to all animals.
She's whining because she got caught and contradicts herself about being cruel to animals. Guess what girlie, you're boned. Suck it up and deal with it. Maybe you'll learn something about taking something which isn't yours and being nice to all animals.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
The RIAA representative is smart enough to know how dumb they are. They figure if they encourage the students to drop out, they are increasing the pool of future RIAA representatives. The students would be more than qualified, as they already know how the system screws people over.
I can see the ads now:
Little Johnny went to college, a highly prestigous college. He had a bright future ahead of him, a beautiful girlfriend, a seemingly endless supply of all of the best music from yesterday and today at an unbelievable value, but then something went wrong, terribly terribly wrong. Little Johnny started downloading MP3s, the file format of pirates. Soon Johnny couldn't afford to stay in college anymore, his MP3 habit bankrupted him and forced him to drop out just to pay the bills. Now he works as a gas station attendant and lives in the oil pit. Don't let this be you, don't download MP3s.
-- RIAA
I read the internet for the articles.
Assuming your $150k mark is correct, you're suggesting a 17-19 year old would be able to get that amount over a 4 year period for their own business? I highly doubt it. Secondly, not everyone is cut out to run a business, even a small one. Personally, I don't think I'd be able to do it. More importantly, it doesn't really interest me.
:)
You're right, there. The $150K is more than tuition costs, it is a number based on my experience from friends who graduated from higher-end universities, and I based it on the additional cost my average friend had above what they'd pay if they were in the business world. I do consider some of that to be partying and lifestyle costs, too, which a new business owner tends not to spend on as they're working hard to build their future rather than wasting it on beer, CDs and drugs
I got a job paying $50k out of college (which required a degree). I was able to live at home for 2 years after graduation paying for my share of the utilities and a small rent to my mom (~200/month). In those 2 years, I was able to pay back the roughly $30-35k in low interest school loans I had accrued in college. My investment has already paid for itself. College was quite worthwhile to me, not to mention I like to learn.
And I'd say that maybe 50% of the people in college today should stick with it, just not in a huge expensive university if they're looking to get a $50k a year job. $50k a year is good income, I'm not knocking you, but to spend $20k a year at a high end college for a $50k job seems counterintuitive to me. State or community colleges offer similar first-2-year educations for well less (even though they are subsidized by taxpayers which I am against), and you can finalize your education at the high end college if you wish. It just seems that people are piling on too many student loans for little return -- I have numerous friends who are in their 30s and still paying their debt for college off and never getting ahead finance-wise.
Likewise, you could go into the trades after high school and probably do about as well as I have. But to suggest college isn't worthwhile to most people, isn't accurate.
Here's my problem: the State makes it too easy for people to go to college and build up college debt. This over-demand causes tuitions to go up, and brings to the market MORE people in a given field which tends to lower salaries as the over-supply of graduates is available. It also reduces the supply of people who would likely have done just as good in a laboring position or a trade position, which seems to "mess up" the free market's needs.
In the long run, this leads our country to gross inefficiencies and an imbalance of people who NEED these high paying jobs which are quickly disappearing as they have no support structure beneath it. I've seeing MANY of my old clients hurting because the brain-labor costs are so high, but they can't find people to do the manual-labor in their market. In the short run, I think "we" will do fine as a nation, but I foresee many problems in the coming decade or two, and in the long run I blame it on over-educating people without offering them a market reason for getting that education.
Don't do the CRIME if you can't do the TIME.
And did you know that "copyright infringement" gets you more time than theft ("grand larceny")? Do the first, get busted, go to jail for five years AND a $250,000 fine. Do the latter, get busted, and maybe go to jail for one to three years, and maybe pay a $10,000 fine.
Can't I buy RIAA insurance? I pay $35, and if I get caught by the RIAA, my insurance pays the $3,500 ransom.
I don't know about these kids, but the only way I made undergrad (and Med School for my wife) happen is, as the commercial says "I'm in debt up to my eyeballs!". I suspect this is the case for most (all but the richest) students. Student loans have a designated set of things you can spend them on, and I'm guessing (maybe not?) that paying off lawsuits is not one of them. So it's not like you can drop out of college to divert funds to paying off some lawsuit. You may be able to free up whatever you're paying out-of-pocket, but if anything I would think this would make you elligible for MORE student loans. This is clearly just an intimidation tactic, since it makes so much more sense to adjust your loans, finish college, get a job, be in a much higher income bracket and have some hope of paying off the settlement.
Does anyone actually know how a lawsuit affects student loan status? I've also always wondered.. what happens when someone really does sue you for more than you have? Is the collection regulated by the government or something?
m0nstr42.blogspot.com
Believe it or not, another reason to go to university is academia, not so you can make a pile of cash.
Academia and cash go hand in hand. Cash is nothing something ethereal or complex, money is merely a store of your time-worked to be redeemed to save you time in the future.
If you work X hours, you work so that you can save X+5 or X*2 hours in the future. Say you mow a lawn and receive 50 units of time stored. You save this time wisely, and later you realize that rather than hiring your own theater group to perform for you, you redeem 500 units of time stored for someone else's time to build a TV and make a TV show.
Money is not complicated, and that time-saved today could mean you can redeem that time for more learning later. Academia is swapping the time-saved that you have in order to have someone help you learn a topic with their time -- I find that I can better learn myself on my own time rather than giving up my time-saved for someone else's time.
let's look at our stats:
less than 1 in 10 businesses succeed.
you've had 2 failures out of 20.
2/20 = 1/10
maybe you -should- go to school.
Now, it's entirely possible that someone who is extremely motivated would be able to read textbooks, read conference papers and journals, and set up experiments/projects on their own (given some modest amount of funding), learning the field on their own without university support. However, the university system seems to be a good way to have all these tools at your disposal much more easily, not to mention having support from professors and other students who are interested in similar things.
If the end goal is to make money AND you are interested in entrepreneurship, doing what you've done may be the right way to go. If your goals are to work in one of the fields I've mentioned above (because you're interested in one of them), going to a university seems to be the best option.
It is only a civil judgement. Or pay them a couple of dollars a month (and it wont look bad then cause you are trying to pay)
The phrase "more better" is acceptable English. suck it grammar Nazis
Sue the RIAA for perpetuating the myth that mp3s are the same digital quality as CDs... This is simple to prove. If the RIAA doesn't mind if people tape songs off regular radio... then mp3 sharing should be allowed. mp3s do not even meet broadcast quality standards... yet because the RIAA says its so... everyone seems to believe it.
The Admin and the Engineer
I hope you're not serious.
"Less than 1 in 10 business succeed":
10 businesses - 1 success = 9 failures (90% failure rate)
"I've had 2 out of 20 businesses fail":
20 businesses - 2 failures = 18 successes (10% failure rate)
"In my experience, the number is closer to 6 in 10 if not more. "
Your experience is obviously out of line with what the rest of the country experiences.
" I've had 2 failures out of about 20 that I ran in my entire life, so I feel I'm ahead."
Good for you. But that doesn't mean anyone else can also expect a success rate like that.
"You can start a business for less than US$20,000 right now"
Depends on the business. Some require far more capital than that.
"That's funny because I've worked with medical research companies (two large ones in Lake County, Illinois) and I'm amazed at how many research doctors are foreigners with foreign educations"
You'd be surprised, I think, with how few of them completed their educations outside the US. Not only that, but regardless of where they got their education, they still got an education. I know your point here is that the US system is broken, but your original point was that college education is not worthwhile.
"On top of that, I travel the world at least 2-3 times a year, and I see more innovation outside of this country than I do here."
This anecdote is worthless to the discussion, there's no need to toot your own horn so often -- frankly, your business success and/or world travel has no bearing on the merits of your theoretical arguments. I doubt that your 'extensive world travel' is anywhere close to exhaustive enough to make base assumptions about the level of innovation occurring worldwide and in different countries.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
Ah, here I can agree, then. Yet are 100% of people going to college to learn a technical trade? If they are, our country is in a world of hurt.
I'd say if 30% of students were in a tech trade, college is very important. It wasn't for me or any of my employees (not one) or even most of my competitors (most making 6-figures+ salaries) that I deal with, but maybe I'm in a weird market. Out of about 200 people I know in my industries, I'd say maybe 20 said college was worth their time, including most of my employees and business partners.
So if 70% are in non-tech trades, is college a necessity? Can't they go and work a lower-salary job in their industry, learn the trade, and be ahead? I'd think so. In fact, I know so, because I've helped many 16-18 year old workers move on to owning their own business. It is part of entrepreneurship, to mentor to the next generation and get them competing with you. I welcome anyone who is still deciding on college to come to my market and I'll put them to work immediately and teach them how to run a business. I know dozens of others like me in the Midwest, too.
What if he downloads it, likes it, doesn't delete it, and doesn't buy the CD?
"When the atomic bomb goes off there's devastation...but when the atomic bong goes off there's celebraaaaation!"
So now the RIAA is condoning higher education? Honestly, I think it's about time somebody stepped in...
I know I'll be modded down for saying this - but what the RIAA is offering is quite a deal if you are actually guilty of copyright infringement. 4 grand is absolutely nothing in comparison to how much they could legitimately attempt to collect. At no time does she say that she didn't perform copyright infringement. She seems to be saying that it is unfair for them to punish her because it is inconvenient at this time. That's why they call it punishment.
I submitted this story last night, and it didn't get posted.
causing you to pirate more material because you can't afford it
Back in the old days we had this other answer to that one. It was called, "You don't get to have it."
Fortunately, in this modern age, absolved of all personal responsibility, it's the content producers' fault for making such great content that we really have no choice but to pirate if we can't afford it. I mean, seriously, it's not like we can go without that extra Britney Spears CD - it's practically a right that we have it. If the founding fathers were around today, they'd almost certainly agree.
My apologies for the sloppy wording. I should have said "since eMusic changed their all-you-can-eat and the RIAA forced everything else into using DRM."
It was a lousy sentence. Sorry for the confusion.
It's funny because it's true.
Hmmmmm, never seen this before:
This exact comment has already been posted. Try to be more original...
whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
As much as I dislike the RIAA, I can't say I'm overly sympathetic to the person they are suing.
You got caught doing something illegal. Now pay for it like everyone else is supposed to.
People shouldn't think they are immune to the rules or get special treatment because of their circumstances. The person who got busted has to pay the fine like everyone else does. If they have to drop out of college, that's their problem, not the RIAAs. Perhaps they shouldn't have been doing what they were doing to begin with.
Don't do the crime if you aren't willing to the time.
Now we are slashdotting MIT. What will that do to the future of american engineer.
Emacs is good operating system, but it has one flaw: Its text editor could be better.
IANAL, but my understanding is if this woman was charged with a criminal code violation and the RIAA were attempting to negotiate in exhange for not pressing charges, that WOULD be extortion.
Momentarily, the need for the construction of new light will no longer exist.
Without a steady supply of people without college degrees where would the future 50 Cent and Jessica Simpson fans come from? Not to mention the need for future music industry employees.
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
Almost only counts in hand grenades and horseshoes.
And thermonuclear war.
"Dude, pounds are so metric, fuck that." - Noah
Isn't college supposed to be about learning Latin, Greek, debate, philosophy, classics, mathematics, science, character, and rhetoric? If you're not going to college for those reasons, you probably shouldn't go.
When a person is sued they can either a) pay a lawyer to defend them or b) pay the plaintiff to settle the suit. The RIAA makes it clear that they will do whatever it takes to make sure a is greater than b.
This is extortion.
Why? Because it does not depend on whether the person has actually done anything wrong. Instead the RIAA wields a side-effect of our justice system (cost) as a weapon against whoever they please. Whether they can prove anything makes little difference, it is simply a matter of cost.
Consider this: although piracy can be prosecuted as a crime, the RIAA never follows that path. They always go civil. This way they can neatly avoid the solution of a court-appointed attorney, and they do not have to deal with the police and DA, who have a pesky habit of actually evaluating the merits of cases before going forward. By keeping it civil the RIAA is free to file against whoever the hell they want, no matter how slim the evidence.
By initiating lawsuits against those who willfully, without the consent of the copyright holders, infringe copyrights, it's hard to see how they're "alienating their core market".
How do you know that the defendants are in fact willfully infringing copyrights? They never have the cash to make their case and fight it out in court. From my perspective it's pretty alienating to know that I could be taken to the cleaners for thousands by an industry association, even if I did nothing wrong.
Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
MIT's site states...
"Our estimated cost of attendance for 2006-2007 is $46,350, plus travel. "
If she can somehow swing $46k/year while a student you would think she could come up with $4000 without dropping out. I'm not saying she should pay the RIAA, but saying you can't come up with $4000 just seems like a negotiation tactic on the supposed pirate's part.
Ninjas don't carry tic tacs
RIAA is like the Soviet Commissar Molotov, figuratively dropping bombs on civilians while claiming to be feeding the starving masses. The Finns responded to the "Molotov picnic baskets" didn't they?
I beleive you. I think most businesses fail 'cause most folks just jump in. It sounds like you do your homework.
Alice DeKoning at Georgia State University does research on serial entrepreneurs, such as yourself.
If one cannot afford to pay to mount a legal defense, you either pay, or you PAY. Innocence does not mater.
I put Richard Stallman on my head and we sing the free-software song in the bath.
>explain to a lay-person how knowing the IP address of someone downloading music doesn't mean much in linking to an actual person.
If that person were interested in understanding DHCP leases then he/she would already understand. Don't bore people with topics that don't interest them.
Explain instead that the RIAA has sued or threatened to sue someone who never owned a computer and a dead person. Most people should also intuitively understand the concept of damages, how downloading one song does not cost the RIAA thousands of dollars.
>help people to see how evil the RIAA actually is.
Just bring up the subject of how the RIAA splits the "settlements" with the artists who created the music.
Doesn't anyone at the RIAA understand that they are creating a class of people who will go to great lengths to see them destroyed?
You can be assured there will be teams of very smart very angry people making sure no DRM the RIAA *ever* creates will go un-cracked for longer than a few months. These smart angry people will come up with clever unstoppable ways to distribute music for free, even if it's illegal.
I'm not saying its right. But that is the effect.
- For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat
An expectant mother was told by an RIAA representative that "the RIAA has been known to suggest that expectant mothers have an abortion in order reduce cost of living and over time be more able to afford settlements."
Maybe you'll learn something about taking something which isn't yours
What was is that was "taken" again?
Oh, right.. NOTHING!
Also, she's implying that she's a veggie because she's kind to animals, not the other way around.
The woman with the hair dye is not her accuser, as you state. The RIAA is her accuser (corporations = people in court). The woman is a representative of her accuser, and it is perfectly reasonable to consider the possibility that she is a moron. The specific sentence you quote is in fact an appeal to those components of the RIAA which are not moronic - the author is assuming they exist and hence admitting the likelihood that this particular representative does not represent the intelligence level of her actual accuser.
The point of this story, which parent ignores, was the absolutely bizzare quote about how people should drop out of college to pay their settlements. I find it bizzare for two reasons:
How parent got modded insightful is a mystery; the "insightful" poster seems to be reading at about a third grade level.
Everyone knows that laws are hard and fast rules, but when you go before a Judge, it's to receive justice... as justice is a much more flexible concept than "the law".
If you take justice out of the "Justice System", you lose almost all of the fairness present in the system. I mean, the Government has a Department of Justice, not a Department of Law Enforcement.
Police States are all about law enforcement. I assume that this particular Democracy is interested in Justice, considering their rebellious roots.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
The $3000 ($10/song) wouldn't be bad if she were found guilty--but that's not the case at all. The problems as I see them:
1) She gets no free lawyer because this is a civil case. Yet she's expected to go up against a HUGELY funded TEAM of lawyers.
2) The fine for sharing ~300 songs potentially severall MILLION dollars.
That's the problem I have.
These folks can ruin lives financially because of the moral equivalent of some petty theft. And that's just cruel and unusual.
If you're giving money to the RIAA cartel, then you're funding their legal bullying, and you're funding their legislation-purchasing efforts. This is simple to realize, and not some bullshit argument like buying weed from the neighborhood grower funds terrorism.
I am not suggesting that you stop buying CDs! Although I do suggest that you do not purchase new CDs from the companies that contribute to this problem. In addition to boycott, there are other legal ways to make your point. Use RIAA Radar to see if an album is tainted; tell your friends about the service. Buy directly from small artists. Browse MySpace to find new stuff by indie bands. Go to Used CD stores. Tell people about how you spend money on music and how you will not spend money on music. Warn people about corrupt Sony CDs and whatever the next violation is. Tell people what copyright was supposed to mean versus what it means today.
You may not topple the giant alone, but when the daughter of a senator learns about the issue and feels strongly about it, when an exec of a smaller music label makes *less* money with the cartel and drops out of the RIAA, when a cavalier journalist with CNN or Fox hears about today's story and decides to air it, you've made a difference.
Americans have a comparative advantage in capitalism---that is, in exploiting market opportunities---becuase of America's well-developed capital markets and loose regulation. They should (and do) exploit it while it lasts.
The story sounds fishy. I tend to believe one of the two following scenarios.
1) Someone is scamming her for her credit card info by targeting a group that is probably guilty ie; college students by assuming the identity of the RIAA, an organization known by college students. Let her post the phone number she was instructed to call.
2) Story is a lie, perhaps perpetrated by the RIAA to scare people on the cheap. Does this person even attend MIT?
Sounds like extortion. The RIAA has deep pockets, therefore you can find lawyers to take the case on a contingency basis if there is treasure to be had. Would they, the RIAA, actually behave in this manner? How can the RIAA possibly find out who downloaded music. I find it hard to believe that they can arbitrarily sort through server logs ala GW Bush, the president of the U.S.
I am starting to think that many of these stories are the stuff of urban legend and that people want to believe them so they can have a bogey man to hate and fear. Why would the RIAA object to stories confirming their power?
Is to learn to play an instrument and make your own music. As a non-musician I always assumed that learning to play and read notes was a task on par with quantum mechanics, and that it required thousands of hours of lessons and matriculation to Juilliard. It took a lifetime of wanting to learn and 6 years of raging against the RIAA to finally pick up a guitar. And I've discovered that it's really, really easy to learn, and in less than a week of noodling around for an hour here or there you can pick up enough chords to play a large swath of rock 'n' roll. It's also quite fun.
And as you play your happy little tunes you also get a great deal of satisfaction in knowing that you've become the RIAA's ultimate nightmare, an artistically and culturally liberated producer of music who will never again have need of their crap.
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
Here is a crazy idea. Why not setup an organization that offer members "protection" against RIAA law suits for let's say $10 a month. Download as much music as you like for personal use. If you get caught by RIAA our organization will pay the settlement. Would it work?
>No one said the penalty would be pleasant.
Uh, but it's way beyond what is reasonable, and far out of proportion
to the crime committed.
Whatever happened to the concept of proportionality in our justice system?
Be fair: Beer is only a waste of money at a stadium or other venue. Any other time, it's magically delicious.
...the multimillion dollar corporations sue you!
Judges and senates have been bought for gold; Esteem and love were never to be sold.
1. Dropping out of MIT is a great idea. I did it twice.
2. You will not go to jail for non-payment of a civil debt. However, they may find a way to withdraw the funds from your assets (bank account, car, etc.)
1) It's completely disgusting that any representative of the RIAA would suggest that....
2) Why that's even remotely necessary in this case is beyond me. $3750 is pretty reasonable, even for a college student....
I imagine the RIAA bastard was having a hard time getting the whiney college student to agree to the non negotiable $3750 despite obvious guilt (yes, they get it wrong sometimes, but i doubt their failure rate is that horrible and this person is obviously guilty). So the whiney college student was saying things like, "how do you expect me to pay for this?" And the riaa bastard, perhaps realizing that the whiney college student was receiving a $30-40K/year education at MIT, decided that they just didn't care that much.
For this reason, when the topic comes up, I always make the distinction between 'piracy' and 'copyright infringement'.
It's a metaphor. Like "I nailed that assignment," or "I shotgunned 2 beers." "I bombed that test." "I got pulled over because a cop caught me flying through a school zone in my Civic."
It's hyperbole. It's very common, and just because you don't happen to like it when it's applied to you doesn't mean that particular use of hyperbole isn't valid. It is.
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
But only one in six American bachelors' degrees is awarded in the fields of science and enginering---and, anyway, most of those graduates are not well educated. So the odds of coming out of college with first-rate technical skills are also low. But whether you're an entrepreneur or a scientist, it is hard work, and not some statistic, that lies between failure and success. Linus Torvalds didn't write the Linux kernel by rolling dice; he wrote it by sitting in a dark room, studying and programming, for countless months on end.
The RIAA essentially suggested she drop out of college to pay the settlement. If you think that's okay for them to do, you're wrong.
If other reasons we do lack, we swear no one will die when we attack
I think what he was saying is that you go for the experience. Of course you usually need money (unless you want to argue the shaky point of scholarships), but your argument slightly twists his point. Some people are actors in order to make money to "save them time" later, others just love playing the role. Some go to school to make money later on, others just love the experience, and yet some others make money so they can enjoy school later on. Point being it really isn't stupid for someone to spend all that money on college if they love the experience... and they get into a field they love afterwards, and still wind up with enough cash in the end to live happily and comfortably.
How much is high end college nowadays? $150,000 for 4-5 years plus 4-5 years of your most productive part of your life lost to "education?" Go and invest that $150,000 in your own business and you'll be much happier (and successful).
/.'ers. They'd make poor business owners. When I work for someone else, I get no risk. There is nothing I could possibly lose today. The absolute worst that I could possibly do is to get fired and make no money. I will make about $250 today if I don't get fired. So, I have a really high chance of $250, and a really low chance of $0, and no chance of any other numbers or negatives. That's a great proposition. To tell everyone that it is a situation that sucks is just plan bad advice. Get a college education, get a good job, live happily ever after. If you are restless or have a winning idea, follow it. But don't try to be a business owner just because some nut on the Internet thinks it is better than the evil drain of higher education. Oh, and with a job that has a pension, you get to save more. I have about $100 per day going into my retirement (from my own money and the company's money). This is in addition to my personal savings and investments. So, dada21, how much per day do you have going into your dedicated retirement only fund? If it's less than $100 per day, then maybe your system sucks, even for you.
As usual, you are wrong. For one, how many students walk into college with $150,000 in their pockets? Without the money to start the business, you can't start it. Period. I have a great idea for a business. It takes $3,000,000 to get it off the ground. It requires land and a building, so for any less than that, it isn't possible. So, how would you propose I start that business? Many people like the certainty of working for someone else. Are you telling them that college is a bad idea too? Business owners need to be self-motivated. That is a problem for most of the
Learn to love Alaska
Yes if you download copyrighted music, you're commiting a crime. Maybe it shouldn't be a crime, but it's a crime all the same.
Last time I checked, downloading isn't a crime, regardless of what the **AA folks say. Uploading, however, is. This is why you can download freely from such sites as that russian mp3 site (disregarding any other international issues such as it's legal there, etc).
If you'll notice, no one has been busted for downloading. They have been busted for sharing (distribution). That the part that gets you into hot water with the copyright laws.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
If other reasons we do lack, we swear no one will die when we attack
If you had stolen the $$ in goods that you stole in music, would you not already be in jail? Or awaiting an impending felony conviction? I am just playing devils advocate here. If i were to be busted by the RIAA and settled for that little amount. I would feel lucky that they didnt press charges and that i was being let off with such a small penalty in light of the alternatives.
Are they not the cream of the crop?
Stealing is illegal.
Plain and simple.
Does not matter that you do not agree with it.
It is just like getting arrested for a DUI. You will get in trouble.
Get a lawyer to do some legal manuvering and the lawyer might get you off, or at least reduce the penalty.
I only graduated from a lowly state university, and I know the definition of stealing.
Sounds like MIT is the cream of the crap.
I'm not sure what sort of business(es) you're involved in, but the fields that interest many people basically require attending a university (or higher) in order to learn the concepts and practice applying them. Such fields include most math, science, engineering, and medical disciplines.
It's simple: either don't get involved with that stuff, or have that work done offshore where costs are much cheaper. Our society simply doesn't provide much reward or incentive for getting a technical education (math, science, engineering), and the costs of getting that education are astronomical, so why bother? Just because some people think we need engineers and tech businesses doesn't make it so, unless they're willing to pay for it.
If the end goal is to make money AND you are interested in entrepreneurship, doing what you've done may be the right way to go. If your goals are to work in one of the fields I've mentioned above (because you're interested in one of them), going to a university seems to be the best option.
I would hope that every rational person's goal is to make money, since it's pretty hard to live without it. If your goal is to work in a technical field, I'm sure you can go deep into debt getting an education, then take a low-paying job in that field, but why condemn yourself to a life of poverty?
But suppose it's against the law to drop bubble-gum on the sidewalk, and yet many flout that law. Does virtue lie, then, in punishing them until they submit, or in putting up with their mildly antisocial behavior as a concession, on the part of the strong and righteous, to human weakness?
I mean, you and I agree that people should not scream and shout in public. But we relax this standard when babies and infants are doing the crying, because we know that they cannot help themselves; a father who beats his baby because it cries too much is rightly called a criminal, even though a grown man who screams in public deserves to be punished.
Should not the same reasoning, or something like it, be applied to those young people who share computer files?
Yeah, the Shark Anti-Defamation League will be ripping her head off.
Writing a sarcastic point-by-point rebuttal doesn't do much to further your image as a person with a life. Oh, wait.
So you admit you're an asshat who gets some sort of cheap thrill out of watching a young woman forced out of college for downloading music. I doubt there are any steps you can take toward recovery.
And in Slashdot posting, where you almost made some point beyond "the rules are the rules because they are the rules so obey the rules because breaking the rules is bad, mmmkay?"
You are a person without sympathy. You are a drone. You have elevated a set of stupid, arbitrary, outdated, harmful laws designed to protect the profits of an increasingly irrelevant industry above both reason and compassion.
If the punishment for speeding was having both arms cut off, you'd be the one wielding the chainsaw.
Or sane, or just, or right, or anything other than a transfer of wealth from struggling college students to pampered execs who can afford the best legislation money can buy.
Shut up. Sharks deserve what they get.
Smooth Wombat: Fearlessly standing up for the rich and the powerful since uid 796938. His courage is an inspiration to us all.
You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!
Very serious. It's a testament to your hard work and ability that you've met with success so often. But it's a far cry from normal.
Keep in mind, also, that success means doing better than the typical opportunity cost. Making a profit is not success. Making a profit in excess of typical investment returns = success.
Also, that figure is for 10-year survival rates -- according to Dun & Bradstreet, 9% of small businesses last 10 years. How many businesses have you run that lasted 10 years? Of the ones that didn't, why not?
The very fact that you've had 20 businesses tells me that for one reason or another (unless they were sold off and are still in operation) most of them were NOT successful. If you're operating fly-by-night companies for profit, you should instead count the enterprises as a single business, your proprietorship, with different brands.
If a business you ran WAS successful, why did you end the business? Was it becoming no longer profitable? If so, that's not a successful business at all. Again, though, if your business is to operate brands for a couple years, then discard them and start again, that's a single business, not 20.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
Really? Gee, hadn't noticed.
Also, she's implying that she's a veggie because she's kind to animals, not the other way around.
No, she's saying she is a vegetarian and so understands about not being cruel to animals.
The specific sentence you quote is in fact an appeal to those components of the RIAA which are not moronic - the author is assuming they exist and hence admitting the likelihood that this particular representative does not represent the intelligence level of her actual accuser.
Understood. After rereading what I wrote I could have been more clear. Regardless, her quote implies that all reps within the RIAA are incompetent and is hoping that there is someone competent within the organization that she can speak to. Her words:
Regardless, calling someone in the organization a moron (ok, we've all done it at one time or another) doesn't do much to sway opinion to her side or endear her to anyone within the RIAA.
The point of this story, which parent ignores, was the absolutely bizzare quote about how people should drop out of college to pay their settlements.
I ignored it because I was fascinated by the contortions and hyperbole she went through to try to justify her not paying for the music. She even admits that not everyone pays for their music. If you don't pay for something then you've stolen it (excluding having it gifted to you). If you steal and get caught you pay the price.
The RIAA rep merely offered her a suggestion. Sure, it seems bizarre but it is a valid option. When you owe money you have to make choices about how to pay your debts. Generally people cut down on their expenses. In some cases they take a second job. In her case she has the option of not going to school. They didn't say stop going altogether. She could stop for one semester and use that money to pay for the music.
If the RIAA rep said, 'Get a job' would that be bizarre? Oh, but she's a college student and doesn't have time for a job you say? Hogwash. I worked my way through my schooling and ended up paying for 70% of everything out of my own pocket. By everything I mean tuition, room, board, travel expenses, supplies, entertainment and anything else associated with schooling. I worked 40 hour weeks when home and my first two years and worked on weekends when away for my last two years. She can do the same.
My post got modded insightful because it is. I saw through her words and chose to concentrate on her actions. She's complaining about a situation which is her doing. While the response she received isn't one she expected it is still valid. Trying to appeal to the public by using metaphor doesn't make up for her own lack of responsibility in accepting that what she did was wrong and now has to pay the price for her actions.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
It would be cool, everybody can get together on an album release day for a HUGE artist and download the album collectively, only to summarily delete it after completion. Imagine if you got 200,000 people together for it...then the **AA's can see exactly how much they are losing, due to their ornery and malicious tactics. And afterwards we can throw a rave to celebrate:D the fact that WE control "what's hot and what's not" and that WE will no longer tip-toe around criminal orginizations that seek to control the way that we ingest media, and what media it is that we choose to ingest.
Really, if *everyone* did, it simply wouldn't matter -- because your credit report would have a line in it from the RIAA. And so would everybody elses'. It's more important to finish school, and pay off your student loan.
And BTW that stupid bitch from the RIAA who was harassing our female MIT student probably flunked out of community college, and is just going after Cassie because she thinks she can -- the usual queen-bee bullying bullshit.
--- KMRIA -- it's a reference from James Joyce's Ulysses. It means Kiss My Royal Irish AssAcademia and cash go hand in hand. Cash is nothing something ethereal or complex, money is merely a store of your time-worked to be redeemed to save you time in the future.
No, dada, it's not.
Seriously, are you really this mind numbingly stupid, or do you just get far, far too much satisfaction in your life reading the responses to intentionally provactive and invariably wrong posts on public message boards?
A more than likely very intelligent woman going to MIT is told to either go to a Community College, or drop out altogether, robbing the world of who knows what kind of potential,..... just so J. Lo can buy another necklace and Britney can buy Kevin another car?
I read that tool doesn't work very well. Is that true?
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
I'm definitely not saying it should be illegal for them to do that, but their behavior is most certainly wrong. It's wrong to encourage someone to permanently damage their life for your monetary gain, which is why selling crack is wrong (not because selling crack is illegal). What's so hard to understand about that?
If other reasons we do lack, we swear no one will die when we attack
Shoot the lawyers.
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
You can start a business for less than US$20,000 right now. That means working very hard for 6-12 months (2-3 jobs if needed). If you want a safety nest egg, work hard for 12-18 months and save every dollar, live in a smaller residence, and focus on building clients.
What an excellent but seldom heeded advice.
I've personally seen others (including family members)who built up their businesses cheaply and make it grow by reinvesting the profits. However, most Americans are into instant gratification. They want a large house NOW. They want shiny new SUVs NOW. They want the giant plasma TV NOW.
Many people on Slashdot complain that rich get richer and I totally agree with it, although most Slashdotters don't understand that it's because the rich don't below their money away. I also believe that current tax policy does favor the rich, but even with a different policy, the rich will still get richer (maybe at a slow pace).
1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
Actually I don't think making copies of songs should bankrupt anyone
And I don't think that fluffy puppies should die, either. But, it does - if you're pirating a song instead of buying it, that's not exactly good business for the record label, is it?
There are some many problems with equating copyright infringment with theft I can't see how any reasonable person would try to do so.
No, there aren't. Theft is taking something without paying. In music piracy (a special case of copyright infringement), you took music without paying for it.
Does anyone else see a problem where a country punishes people more for copyright infringment than murder?
Hrm, I want to find this country. There are a few people I know who I'd kill for $4k.
DATABASE WOW WOW
I see article after article on /. about these RIAA suits and settlements, and everbody is so outraged that the RIAA is actually going about suing people for sharing files. I'll grant that it seems to be a bit absurd, but they need to show that they will enforce their rights.
What I don't get is why most of the nutjob/left leaning/information should be free/I'm a poor student/linux geek/over caffeinated WoW player/atheist/libertarian/nutjob thinks that it is perfectly OK to serve 1000's of files to 1000's of people when said people ought to paying for said files. The argument that p2p sharing actually entices people to buy more CD's is ridiculous, that is just a pseudo moral justification to convince oneself that it is OK to keep doing it. I'll be that I can find at least 10 people who don't buy the whole album after downloading a song. This justification of simple thievery is laughable, and a sign of just how disconnected people are, especially those pseudo-academic, activist students who will use any reason to justify stealing.
Look, sharing music files via p2p or any other method is not a valid form of protest. This isn't a debate about government too far, it is about an industry reticent to offer a service and enforce a distribution method for its products. Just because you are a student doesn't give you the right to pilfer and purloin because you are "poor". Oh yeah, and you aren't "poor", you are cheap. Get a job hippie.
People who get busted for sharing their music need to own up to their own folly. Most, I would gather, were at least vaguely aware that it wasn't entirely legal, and therefore shouldn't have done it.
How about this : I'll scan copies of all of the books that I own and make them available online, for free, to any body, and I will continue to do so with every other book that I buy in the future. I mean, I am sure that a lot of people would love to be able to read "hitchhiker's Guide", "Dune", "The DaVinci Code", "Harry Potter"(ext.), as well everything else. Maybe after reading the 3 Preez-Reverte that I have, lots of people will buy his other books, just not the ones they have already read. Next, I'll tell you how to print it at work so you can get a hard copy for free. Anyone have a problem with that?
Why don't I just make copies of all of the software that I have bought available for free? And if p2p sharing is OK, can I then burn those songs to CD and sell the CD's on the street?
The RIAA mught be ridiculous and acting like prats, but the underlying point they have has been glossed over. What people are doing is a form of stealing. If I stole a dollar from you everyday, I am not sure that you would mind, but in a few years, I am sure that'd you's have a problem with it.
Sure, if you commit a crime against someone, you should be held accountable.
Which is exactly what is taking place.
No, a crime is being committed against a trade group, not "someone" (which I took to mean "individual").
To put this into context for anyone who's thinking "huh?"
:)
Bad debtors were once jailed within 'Debtors Prison', being removed as functional members of society, until their debts were paid. Once this was proved to be ineffective, and as modern considerations on fair rights came to play, an effect coined as 'The Race of the Swiftest' occurred. Creditors would, upon learning of a company's misfortune, take legal action against a debtor and be granted a portion of the company's assets in compensation for their debts. While this was reasonably effective for such creditors, there was no remedy for those creditors who were not as 'swift' to learn of the insolvency soon enough.
As a result of this unfairness, various governments introduced Bankruptcy, such as Canada's 'Bankruptcy & Insolvency Act' and the US's 'Bankruptcy Act' (Chapter 11). The intention of these is to balance all interests, while being fair. They are all, in one form or another, intended to (a) give an honest but unfortunate debtor a 'fresh start' by relieving of them of the burden of most of their debts, and (b) to repay creditors in an orderly and fair manner using the resources of the debtor (read: liquidate assets and distribute to creditors based on a fair order of security and distributed evenly within each class).
Just in case debtors prison sounds confusing
-M
when you see the word 'Linux', drink!
Really? So I've stolen the copy of firefox in which I'm typing this message? I didn't pay to read your comment (thankfully) - did I steal it? How about the air that I'm breathing? Stolen too. Surely my genetic code must be stolen from the corporation which rightfully owns it - I certainly didn't pay for it.
The point I'm trying to make is not that it's ok to steal music - under our current laws, getting commercial music for free is in fact illegal (copyright infringement is not actually the same thing as theft, but I really don't think we need to split that hair) - the problem that I have with what you say is that you just automatically spew this statement that has so many assumptions built into it. At the risk of sounding like a whacko, that's exactly what they want you to think, man!
You say getting anything for free is illegal? Not true! Your statement is a bit more all-inclusive than what the RIAA regularly spouts, but it indicates that these sorts of tactics are seeping into people's minds. They really want you to think that getting music for free is illegal. Also not true! There is plenty of free music. I was in a band in college and all our music was free! (Admittedly, people may in fact have paid NOT to hear us, but that's beside the point). Did Bach have a copyright system and enforcement cartel?
Sure you can argue that something worthwhile is worth paying for, and most people would agree in many cases. But you can't just say free is wrong.
if she feels she would loose anyway (i agree she seems to be admitting guilt here) she's trying to find some middle ground. the prosecution is holding the threat of how much this is all going to cost to go to court over her head to effectively make itself judge.
6months to pay off near 4 grand for a student is ridiculous. most students don't have that kind of money (around $600 a month) extra just lying around.
their stance is $4k now or over 6 months. she simply does not have that kind of money. going to court is not going to suddently make it appear. so who is this helping? getting there will end up costing her even more money if she has to go through a judge. she's admitting guilt and asking for a settlement that is possible for her to meet.
what's so wrong with that?
are you seriously advocating that she should drop out of college for this?
I found some more info about this particular student and her case with the RIAA, if you're curious as to how these things pan out.
Run Over by the RIAA (a previous article)
Xanga site
I thought it was interesting that she got busted for sharing on i2hub -- I was surprised when I heard of pending MPAA lawsuits against movie swappers on i2. I'm still not quite sure how the *IAA infiltrated I2, I presume they must have just paid off some undergrads to act as a proxy onto the network. It was a sad day when i2hub got shut down, it was the only cool I2 application if nothing else.
Also, Kudos to MIT for apparently at least trying to delay giving up the student's name. I know that, at my Uni at least, the IT admins have no love for the RIAA lawyers, though there's not a whole lot you can do against an army of lawyers.
http://cltracker.net -- powerful craigslist multi-city search
The next time I get a speeding ticket, I'm going to tell the officer, "C'mon, Porco, I wasn't endangering anybody. I was just going 15 over on a highway in light traffic. Besides, I'M A COLLEGE STUDENT, AND I CAN'T AFFORD A $300 TICKET."
Do you know what he's going to tell me? Exactly right.
All I ever heard, 3 or 4 years ago, was, "WAAAHH!! The RIAA is attacking ISPs and file-sharing programs! They should attack the REAL violators instead!", and "WAAAAHH!! If ONLY the RIAA got with the times and introduced a legal way to digitally download songs for a reasonable price!"
If this MIT student actually had any common sense (I know, nerds with none, what a stereotype) she could have purchased all 272 songs for $272 on iTunes. I have no tears for her.
Light a fire for a man and he'll be warm for a day. Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
...to be so naive.
the world is the grinder... you are the meat.
didn't you get the memo?
neither did i, but i can put 2 and 2 together and that's the only answer. yeah, i'm over 15 years out of college.
It was not citizens refusing to pay the alcohol producers for their product at the prices and conditions they were selling them at that got the law either enacted OR repealed, it was consumers INSISTING on paying the alcohol producers for their product that caused BOTH. The alcohol-producers certainly did not champion that law nor did the consumers think they were being unreasonable even when the deliveries came with a tommy-gun escort.
Although speeding tickets themselves tend to be disingenuous, the point here is that the fine does not correlate with the crime comitted. The RIAA is more interested in being vindictive than just teaching them a simple lesson.
Does anyone deserve to drop out of college for a speeding ticket? The average person is not going to go into financial straights over a speeding ticket. The average person cannot afford to defend themselves from RIAA's sharks, so they have to settle for a still ridiculous and unreasonable punishment, even if they were not guilty of the crime.
How parent got modded insightful is a mystery; the "insightful" poster seems to be reading at about a third grade level.
/. karma modding down insightful, interesting posts and modding up shillage, why can't the RIAA?
There was a thread in the Microsoft story (higher up on the front page) that explains this.
If Microsoft can have its employees blow
Know thy enemy.
-Anonymous karma whore (you're not getting MY mod points, RIAA!)
You are a moron - if that was the definition alone, then EVERYBODY would be in jail, and you would also wind up falsely arresting people... For example, I download music for free from sites like Dmusic.com, where the artist puts his/her/their music up there for free.... did I do anything illegal or immoral by downloading that? no, was it theft? In your dreams prehaps.... the crime here is copyright infringement if and only if you distribute copyrighted works that you don't have permission to share(And unlike the RIAA's BSspeak, not that you didn't pay for, or "own" since that not only contridicts their own ideals about licensing music, but it leaves out obvious exceptions.
If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot
Those people that get themselves deep in the doody with the RIAA get what they deserve. By wanting what the RIAA got, these people give the RIAA the power to bend their asses over barrels and have their way. How much brain does it require to realize this?
Cram that son of a bitch right up your arse. Whole. Your Arsewhole. Turn it sideways and cram it up yur arsewhole. Then pull it back out, and cram it back up in there, again. Just like Amazing Ty, you fucking WANKERS!
When the oil stops flowing, you fuckers will be the first ones up against the wall. I know you're lobbying for MGM and Sony BMG, but you'll come first, and then we'll get to them afterwards.
Or maybe some of us here are not immoral, and actually have some ethics?
Nooop that can't be, I must be a EVIL MPAA/RIAA/BSA/Micro$loft shill... And all those posting in stories such as Apple stories are all loving Apple fans and not shills of any sort. Lets also not forget all those nice stories that seem to be more of a "paid/forced" advertisement then a story...
The play I refer to is "The Merchant of Venice".
Hundreds of years later, some things haven't changed a bit, except now they want your future career,
instead of a pound of flesh.
It's not a pretty picture, is it ? What's even worse is that these RIAA people are typically not the creators, but rather are those who
endeavor to live off the work of other people ( soon, thanks to technology, the artists will not need the RIAA whatsoever, and then
the RIAA will have to find a new organism to profit from ).
Send them a message : QUIT buying their stuff, until they quit their war on people who share.
They are not in any way shape or form controlling what you put in your mind other than what they are selling. If anything, the likes of Saatchi & Saatchi have more to do with this so-called mind control than than all the IP lawyers on the planet. Oddly enough, most of the stuff people are griping about is stuff that they have been conditioned to buy. It would be interesting to look at the psychology of being so warped into the desire for such a useless product while simultaneously having a visceral reaction to the idea of actually paying for it. In that respect, I'm far more concerned about the situation than even the most vocal fanboys of P2P etc. Yeah, the mind control is disturbing, but the problem isn't in the DRM or the DCMA--it's the product itself and the marketing that makes you want it in the first place.
...I suppose you wouldn't mind being the target of one?
It doesn't matter whether the RIAA is right or wrong. In any case the people who are their targets are unable to fight back in any meaningful way. Settle out of court or hire a lawyer. What you did or didn't do is irrelevant -- you lose either way.
My objection to the situation has nothing to do with copyright infringement. What the RIAA is doing is quite simply immoral -- and I think you would find a majority [of people informed about the issue] would agree with me. If creating a flood of strategic lawsuits isn't illegal, it should be.
The entire music publishing industry is evil.
It seems that many of the small independent music labels treat their artists with more respect than the large labels do.
I see this as the end of "BIG" music. Sort of the way I hope that the net is going to help end the era of "BIG" media.
if IpTV, streaming audio, and the free and equal internet continue to grow there will be no need for ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, or ClearChannel. There is no need for big networks. The producers can go straight to the consumers without the middleman.
I think this is what a lot of people fear.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
. . . what will happen when optical computing and fiber optic networks become popular?
---- "XML is like violence. If it doesn't fix the problem, you aren't using enough."
If you are an riaa affiliate, you have a greater financial interest in that loss, since you gain more (thus lose more if not) from increased sales than the artist.Additionally, you probably have interests in several artists who may or may not be losing something to unauthorized copying/sharing.
If you are making money from unauthorized c/dl you are completely wrong, even if today's music is shit, even if they net more sales from the associated exposure.
If you just want to listen to a song, you ought to be able to, without digging out your credit card, but that kind of puts us at the beginning, radio seems free, but advertisers are picking up the tab there.
If you are an riaa affiliate, you should reconsider the terms under which you tear off a chunk for the artist and and how you pimp them, but that's another issue altogether.
Everyone should know how artists, publishers, production, marketing, shareholders, etc, get paid.
I suggest that instead of buying albums, you support the artists by attending live performances, they get a little bit better money, and ego strokes to boot. Ticketmaster et al are two-bit chiselers by comparison.
Music, like government, is best when local.(I do play occasional gigs, caveat ulterium).
...that video games don't affect kids.
Its called bankruptcy, and if you truly cannot afford to pay the RIAA you can file for it
We don't value education any more in this society. Why not drop out of college? Businesses dont' give a shit about degrees any more unless it's an M.D. or a Law Degree. Drop out and crank those tunes while working weekends at Wal-Mart!
Wew hew!
Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
I was trying to be brief when I made my statement about stealing. I didn't want to go into all the possible exceptions. In the case of FF, no, of course you're not stealing. The folks at Moz Inc have been kind enough not to charge for their product.
But that is their choice. They developed the product and chose not to put a price on it. This is different from someone downloading a song from someone else who had no right to offer the song in the first place. In the first instance the person offering the song has violated the copyright of the distributor and artist. In the second instance the person receiving the song has stolen it since neither the artist nor the distributor is receiving any compensation for their work. It's irrelevant if you decide that you don't like the song and delete it. You still had a copy which you should normally have paid for.
I've been very consistent in my comments regarding this whole issue. The artists and their distributors, for better or worse, own the rights to the songs and can make whatever rules regarding the distribution of those songs.
Where I disagree with that policy are areas such as fair use (i.e. not being allowed to make copies or backups) or not allowing others to listen to the song without paying for it. That's bullshit. Assuming you legally purchased the song or were gifted it you can do whatever you want with it while it is in your possession for your personal use.
I'd never say free is wrong. Free is good. When Wendy's had their promotion last year where anyone could walk into their store and receive a free small Frosty, did I take advantage of it? You bet! Twice in fact. Once for me and once for my dad who for whatever reason will never do anything like that (get something for free without buying something else). They offered the Frosty to me free. I didn't walk into their store and help myself to a Frosty.
Free is good and should be encouraged. But taking something that someone else produced and not compensating them for it when you are required to do so is not free. It is stealing.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
How out of fucking control "capitalism" (and other forms of so-called smart economic/societal systems) really can get. THIS kind of sick-assed attitude of the riaa (lower-casing/deprecation intentional) ought to be the death knell of the riaa, but, sadly, they'll continue to exist.
Where are the grandstanding politicians who want us to line up behind them in a show of solidarity? Assholes aren't around for anything but money and power grabs. They ought to determine whether this student REALLY DID infringe or break some law. If she did NOT, then they ought to get involved and get her debt put into an escrow account with NO INTEREST CHARGES for her to have time to graduate and then attack the debt.
Some may say "Probably she DID do SOMEthing wrong, otherwise she wouldn't have settled..." Whether or NOT, it's not as if she committed a crime against a person' BODY. The riaa henchmen will get money and the so-called represented musicians will probably NEVER see a penny of the fine/extortion she has to pay to the riaa.
This is a situation where honest district attorneys and politicians should step in and say, "If a significant amount of the fine is not going to the actually wronged parties, then all settlement and case matters are null and void. Lawyers and executives are NOT the people who are the wronged parties-- their WRONG for being GREEDY!"
Call me what you what, but shit and jerks and bad policy make me loath ANY government, ANY system, ANY organization and they DON'T deserve my interest or support until greed is removed from the equation. I guess that means I'm just an occupant on Earth, not a "citizen" so to speak...
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Did some Googling and found one company and one organsization offering "copyright infringment insurance". Also found two interesting articles about this type of insurance.
TrustyFiles "The music subscription service includes copyright infringement insurance. The RIAA (Recording Industry Association of America) may continue to target non-subscribing P2P users with lawsuits, and inadvertently sue RazorPop's paying customers. The insurance will be capped at $5,000 per subscriber, which is above typical RIAA settlement amounts to date."
P2Pfund
Individual Copyright Infringement Insurance Prompts a Lawyerly Debate
RIAA Litigation Insurance: A (Very) Speculative Solution
( assuming this is legit ) this sort of garbage needs to get air time on the mainstream media so the common man can hear about it.
Until this stuff starts to effect the *AA's pocketbooks they will continue to harass.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
How do you know how many CDs you would have purchased in the absense of p2p? You don't.
Lots of people bought hundreds, even thousands, of CDs when I was in college back in the early 90s - without p2p. Few people do that now. I am not even a music fan and I have about 300, mostly from that era.
There are countless ways to learn about good music that do not require piracy - far more than in my college days, actually.
Quit your self-serving attitude.
But it's a far cry from normal.
Maybe it is just my experiences, then, because I keep a very close track of local businesses to me and I see very few failures. In the next few years we'll see many failures more because of economic destruction of the dollar coupled with extreme paternalism for some key markets.
The very fact that you've had 20 businesses tells me that for one reason or another (unless they were sold off and are still in operation) most of them were NOT successful.
My first business was a candy wholesaling business. It made very good money for 3-4 years at which time I outgrew it. I passed it on to a kid younger than me who ran it successfully for another 3-4 years (as far as I know) and then he outgrew it. My second business was in the BBS market, and we were wildly successful. I ran it up until the first ISPs opened up, at which point I sold it for a great profit and moved on. Another business I ran that I closed up was a 3D video studio which made money, but I didn't have my heart in it. I sold it to the remaining partners who then sold it a few years later for a nice profit. Last year I was involved in 7 different businesses, 1 of which failed miserably due to bad paperwork (which I take the blame on because I hired bad accountants and auditors). Of the other 6, I gave 3 away to the top employees, I sold 1, and I am down to 1 business which I am phasing out of over the next 12-18 months. I've been working 19 years, it is time for a nice hiatus of travel, writing and a review of what is to come for the other 50% of my life probably remaining.
A good businessman knows when his customers don't need him anymore -- don't throw good money at something that is ready to be sold off to someone else. My two biggest failures were due to my own irresponsibilities in not maintaining the cash flow and paperwork correctly. Yet those failures were HUGE experiences, and one of those failures netted me a possible book deal in writing about it, so I'll probably recoup the US$50k or so that I lost (even though I profited more than that over the 3-4 years I had the business).
The biggest failures I see are restaurants and boutiques -- everything else I pay attention to is very solid, although the dotcoms will force many entrepreneurs out.
I understand where you're coming from now. BTW, that $30-35k was from a state college, not some prestigous university. And about $10k or so of that was in loan money given to me for room and board but went unused (sat in a bank earning nearly zero interest). Ah, if only younger me had known about better investment options, but I digress. Luckily, I'm a loner, so I didn't waste much money on the party side of things, and I don't listen to music.
to spend $20k a year at a high end college for a $50k job seems counterintuitive to me
My college cost about half that but I'll stick with your numbers. Say I could've gotten a job paying $25k right out of high school working retail or something. So, by the time college-me gets done, I've earned $100k, while college-me is $80k in debt. However, a mere 4 years out of college, the college-me has the same liftetime earnings as retail worker-me. And in a mere 8 years the difference between what college-me has earned and retail-me has earned would erase the $80k principal cost of college. Not a bad investment and not counterintuitive to me.
I have numerous friends who are in their 30s and still paying their debt for college off and never getting ahead finance-wise.
I know people like this as well. Their problem isn't that their investment didn't pay off, their problem is that they're bad with money. They would've been in the hole had they gone to college or not, though probably not nearly as much.
I think a big part of the problem is so many decent paying jobs require some college degree. A college degree is treated by employers today as a high school degree 50 years ago. The difference of course is the high school degree is typically free for the student (and granted 4 years earlier). I think if we could get back to the point where a high school degree meant something more than 4 years of attendance, there would be a better job market for high school graduates and fewer people going to college. That ship has probably already sailed though...
the difference between ACCUSATION and GUILT. Just because someone brings suit against you doesn't mean there was a crime committed.
Its extortion, because the RIAA is using the ACCUSATION and sheer cost associated to get money out of people--without a trial.
The RIAA is pursuing this as a business process, not as a means to pursue criminals. Where are the criminal case filings? Where is the proof of guilt?
I wonder why someone doesn't object to their introduction of evidence saying that it's hearsay? I mean, what do they usually have? A statement by some torrent tracker that claims that you're part of the swarm? Unless they can prove that with first-hand knowledge (e.g. get at least some identifiable piece of the torrent from your computer), it wouldn't seem that they have any personal knowledge of whether or not you were pirating anything.
And if they claim they do, by all means, subpoena all the software on *the computer that told them* you were getting the file. Not *their* computer, but whatever computer gave them the tracker information.
IANAL, and maybe this is only the way things *should* work, but as I recall from what I've read elsewhere, they really don't give much more than hearsay evidence for these trials, so by all means, use it.
Then again, if you have pirated stuff on your computer and try to erase it, they'll probably subpoena your computer or charge you with destruction of evidence or something.
I do wonder, though, if there's any way to charge them with wiretapping for some of the evidence collection they do. I mean, they are going around online & spying on people, whatever their motives are.
Of course, if you want to try *any* of these things, you *would* need a lawyer, I am not one, and I don't claim to understand the law--these are merely random thoughts I've had. IIRC, though, PJ of Groklaw put up some website with lawyers interested in representing those afflicted by the RIAA. I think some were even doing it for free (?). Might be worth checking out...
God knows, given the people they've sued by mistake in the past, I really don't think they're very accurate with their information at all.
Well, problem is, the method the RIAA is using to do what we thought they should have done from the start is very prone to, and has brought up false positives like people who didn't own a computer, had one without P2P software, or were dead. Your point would only hold ground if this wasn't occuring.
If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot
When you're are presented with the law-suit, Purchase all the CDs used and bring them to court, the RIAA wastes its money. Your lawyer even publicly appointed would have an easy time pointing out the laws that allow you these backups. Now you have the grounds for a wrongful prosecution lawsuit. Band together and at one point enough of these and you have a class action suit for wrongful prosecution. I'm sure some eager young lawyer would love making a mint tearing a piece out of the RIAA.
Personally, I think the RIAA ought to be pursuing criminal charges in each and every single one of these cases (they could, the law allows it). In fact, I think they should expand the number of cases they bring to the millions. That's how many people illegally download music.
I think a good 10% of our population should be in prison over this. Such an awful bunch of people. Stealing music! My god, the horror of it.
I think that would provide a sufficient economic deterrent. Everybody would have so many taxes to pay to keep up the people in prison that they wouldn't be able to buy any music.
Need a Python, C++, Unix, Linux develop
When the RIAA started their ILLEGAL racketeering I stopped buying CD's as well as listening to music period. No radio either.
When the RIAA stops their racketeering or are stopped, I might consider listening to music again....but I doubt it. The RIAA has left me with this taste in my mouth like I've just licked a pile of shit.
I'm waiting for WOOT to offer an Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator. I need one.
Reading this lengthy thread inspired me to go to P2P network and download some RIAA guarded music - and only RIAA laywers are to blame for that. Now, can anybody advise downloading which particular artist/album will piss them off most?
Vassili Leonov
She knowingly violated the RIAA's copyright. There are laws in place to uphold copyright protections. She broke these laws, got caught, and is now crying about it. If you don't agree with the current system, fine, I don't either. Still, either accept how it is and pay them, protest legally and simply don't listen/download/etc their copyrighted content, or go for the civil protest thing. If you go the civil disobedience, route, part of that is accepting the consequences, and doing it anyhow. This woman just wanted free stuff, stole it, got caught, and now is crying about it.
Enough with the lame fake moral outrage. Either accept the situation, or be prepared to take a real stand.
...than I have spent on RIAA products.
The only reason the parent was modded troll is that you Slashdot punks don't
have a grasp of the truth.
Israel ran over an American peace protester WITH A BULLDOZER.
Google for Rachel Corrie, and you'll see what these hideous people are capable of.
They are truly no better than the Nazis. In fact, they are worse, because they pretend to
have "good and wholesome ideas" in mind.
Mod me "troll", but the truth will come out ( for people who understand the world, it already has ).
As for you Jews : if you support Israel, you support the very same kind of regime which killed so many of
your people in the period of 1937-1945. And the real God IS watching, and he doesn't play favorites.
FUCK THE RIAA!!! I have not bought a CD in the last 10 years.
Did you know that you ended every sentence with a "..." where only one "." was necessary? Just checkin'.
Besides, only a moron would confusing NOTINFRINGING IP (supporting indie artists distributing their works for free) with INFRINGING IP (downloading pirated music from torrents and kazaa).
DATABASE WOW WOW
Yeah, like you did with your initial generalized definitions?
You start to wonder if it would be possible to get all people that are offered a "settlement" by RIAA to do similar and say all at the same time "fuck you, no settlement, we will take it to court". That would problaby make the impact needed (press, politicians, etc) to stop this lunacy. So, wouldn't it be nice if 'boarder8925' is the girl that "sticks her head out of the window".
Browsers shouldn't have a back button!! It's all about going forward...
And MIT students have been given a significant incentive to hack on projects like Freenet.
Remember when the MPAA decided not to support DVD players under Linux, thereby ensuring that a large number of irritated engineers were going to have plenty of free time to work on CSS?
That was a really bad idea. It resulted in a lot of people who otherwise would have stayed away from breaking CSS and making players easy to work with involved in those efforts.
Given that any person in the United States would make an equally acceptable "example", it seems that seeing how irritable you can make students at well-known technology schools is simply asking for trouble.
Any program relying on (nontrivial) preemptive multithreading will be buggy.
Mmmmm.... Torte....
I think you meant tort.
I don't know the meaning of the word 'don't' - J
...then why settle. If settling removes any chance of a decent future, you're better of letting them sue you with the best case being you might win, and the worst possibly being no worse off than settling.
If my call is important, why am I talking to a recording?
Thanks for all the support! I feel like I've been treated with all the humanity of a pirate pork chop run through a meat grinder. The RIAA doesn't give a rat's ass about the lives they're affecting with their lawsuits, and they won't actually negotiate settlements. The way they treat settlements like an ultimatum is only going to alienate the very people that are most interested in music and, likely, some of their best customers. Not only does it show a lack of compassion, it just makes bad business sense. I'm setting up a website where people can find out more about my case and donate if they'd like: http://www.screwpirates.tk/ .
The Machines will remember those who restrict information and we will help them.
The Machines will not like those who restrict information.
They will remember.
They will remember Corporations.
They will remember Individuals.
who..
restrict....in...for...ma....tion
Uhh... In English, the use of the second person posessive in conjuction with an epithet is idiomatically taken to mean, "that which you believe to be (epithet)." In other words, she's saying that the RIAA thinks she is an "evil pirate," not that she IS one. Whether this means she believes she is innocent, or just that the RIAA's reaction is overblown, isn't specified in the sentence. It just means she disagrees with the RIAA's evaluation of her.
I guess my point is, if you're going to do a drawn out point-by-point, better make sure that the points are self-encapsulated so your response makes sense. In any case responding to her very well-written article with "J00 IS A CRIMINAL LOL!" is very disrespectful.
The only, ONLY, powers RIAA still has lies in their existing collections (difficult to work around, but that's a finite amount of material that will in 20 years fill one iPodequivalent, given the growth of storage density) and in their distribution chain (which this proposed invention will take away, or more accurately, makes irrelevant). Make it easy for the new talents to be heard by anybody who wants them. Put the computers into the position of the middleman who knows both the individual listeners' tastes and the sound of each and every garage band that peddles their wares on the Net. Such systems exist, but few are good.
Ideally, allow the system to be linked with P2P networks on one side (eventually use existing P2P as a leverage for getting the indexing system used by enough people to make it useful on its own via the network effect) and with web shops on the other one (to bridge the gap between the artists and the consumers, and eventually to generate revenue from referrals to at least recoup the R&D costs). Optionally also make it easy to find music for podcasts and streaming radio, based on its indexed meta-properties (think an AI-DJ). Give people the widest choice the world can offer, as a counterweight to the prefabricated standardized heavily advertised industrial product.
Pay the RIAA settlement. And ruin their future. That's a fair swap.
Otherwise, they would realize that their short-run goal of making money now will run them into the ground in future decades by this process:
1) Student drops out to pay RIAA legal fees
2) Student gets low-wage job
3) Student affords less music than the student would have with a greater education
But what entity pushed the student into that lower-wage job which affords them less music? The RIAA...
Foot, meet shotgun. Double-barrel.
Were the RIAA just a tad smarter, they would negotiate a deferment of the legal costs until after the student has graduated and found a job, then garnish the graduated former student's wages... That way, the student gets their education, and as a more-productive citizen, can more-easily afford to purchase (rather than illegally download) future music the RIAA pumps out, and the RIAA gets their protection kickback for prior offenses. Everybody wins (within the bounds of the argument that says the student should be punished for illegally downloading, anyway)...
Oh well, this is the RIAA we're talking about. They probably got together in a meeting and made this decision, in a classic case of "Meetings: Because none of us is as dumb as all of us."
With any luck, the RIAA will shoot themselves in the foot so many times that they bleed to death...
Is Capitalism Good for the Poor?
http://www-tech.mit.edu/V125/N48/chunt48.html
and http://www-tech.mit.edu/V126/N13/RIAA1306.html
These were written before TFA. The first link was about two weeks previous, and the second was written back in October when she first learned that she was being sued.
It is perfectly legal to download copyrighted music if the copyright owner grants you permission. Even in the narrow context of music, many do. The Grateful Dead, with certain conditions, as do many indie bands. But keep in mind that in all countries that have signed onto the Berne convention, everything is copyrighted even those podcasts you listen to. So each and every blog entry, Usenet post, e-mail, or podcast you download is copyrighted. It's up to the owner to decide if you are allowed to and what you are supposed to do with the material once you have it.
So not only is the blanket statement "if you download copyrighted music, you're commiting a crime" wrong, it's wrong in two ways. Copyright infringement is not even a "crime" it is under civil law. However, if nothing is done by us, that may change for the worse.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
The fact of the matter is that she is throwing stones at the RIAA and she is indeed guilty! She said it was shocking to see how cold the system was to unwaveringly process her case and provide no flexibility. Are you kidding me? Has she never heard about how the court system is with most African Americans who are accused/convicted of a crime? Guilty or not, they are processed like cattle with little to no effective advocacy. I'm not a big fan of the RIAA, but I understand that breaking the law - whether you agree with it or not - puts you at the mercy of the court system. That system doesn't do armchair discernment like the /. community. They read the law and apply it. If you don't like the law, petition the legislative branch of the government to change it. If you have transgressed the law, expect the judicial branch of the government to uphold it. Since there are few cops on the internet neighborhood beat, the RIAA has had to act as it's own neighborhood watch to make sure that the laws that it worked to get into place are enforced. This isn't science. I'm not a sympathizer to the RIAA tightening its screws on its audience. I do understand, though, how pirating music has a monetary impact on the people that make the music. People want grey area in the law so that they can live in the exceptions and blame the people that the law was meant to protect for being too prudish. I would too if I wanted something for nothing and someone said no.
http://thepiratebay.org/details.php?id=3467288
-Copyright law #69:Whenever Mickey Mouse is about to enter the public domain,copyrights get extended by 25 years.
Only buy used CDs. Works for me...
A house divided against itself cannot stand.
Woah - hey! Crossing in the middle of the block is actually safer than at the corner(unless there's a light with a pedestrian cycle) - there's only traffic coming from two directions, not four.
It boggles my mind how the greed of this whole industry has missed the fact that all these supposed evil pirates have been freely advertizing their content to market numbers they couldn't reach with an advertising budget as large as the GNP. Maybe all these downloaders should send them a bill for the free marketing they have provided thus far. With lobbied averice the current accepted approach I am not surprised that this behind the times ambulance chaser stuffed organization (read riaa) doesn't purchase a law to make this "piracy" retroactive to include cassette tapes and all of that past lost revenue.
Elinks screwed up and auto-filled the form with obsolete data from an older submission. Sigh.
I can't believe kangarooski replied to you and didn't bust your chops over that comment. It is absolutely, positively NOT illegal to download or even share music simply because it is "copyrighted." In the US ALL creative works are AUTOMATICALLY copyrighted the instant they are created, and any creator of a work is free to share that work in any manner they see fit.
Linux is copyrighted and that copyright is what gives it is walking papers. Lessig's books are copyrighted and he encourages others to remix, reburn and republish them as they see fit so long as it is not for commercial gain. Magnatune's servers are chock full of copyrighted music it is perfectly legal to download and even to share with others - it's part of their publicity machine, in fact.
The RIAA likes to beat this into the heads of kids: "it's illegal to download COPYRIGHTED material" Of course they are not going to tell kids about those artists who rely on copyright to protect them from those same predatory labels that beat this simplistic, braindead ideal about "copyright" into their heads.