Just get a Nokia N900 that already gives you full root access and lets you boot into other stuff anyway without encouraging this closed and inferior platform.
Remember back in the 90's when people would argue Mac vs. PC, and then the Amiga guy would chime in and they'd both tell him to shut up? Shut up.
This is very serious, yet most fanboys were just proud it was so "easy" to jailbreak their iPoos.
That's because earlier that day there was a lot of babble about 'rooting' Android phones, and that was only a week or two after Android fans were bragging about how much more they value freedom than iPhone fans.
No, we have the vanilla term, which requires the prophecy to fulfil itself. If people have to decide to make the prophecy fulfilled, it's not self-fulfilling. It's the regular, manual-fulfilling prophecy.
Haha okay, we'll run with your change to the definition. 'Low sales' is not a self-fulfilling prophecy then. Afterall, it only happens because people decide not to buy.:)
This is the attitude I was referring to. The existence of DRM does not mandate piracy. If DRM gets in the way of playing a game, that's bad, but that doesn't mean they have to pirate.
Company fights piracy. Company, during the course of fighting piracy, convinces its customers to demand money back, boycott, and file class action lawsuits. Company dies. That does fulfill your bastardized version of what a self-fulfilling prophecy is even though your own example does not.
This is a fun little word game and all, but what are you really after?
Ah, now we have a new mutation of the term that now requires that the prophecy must be morally correct. Heh.
Low sales is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Piracy is not. Piracy is a person's decision. There is no situation where piracy is an option, and where "not buying" isn't an option.
Go look up the problems people are having with DRM. When it gets in the way of playing the game, then yes, they may have to pirate it.
Yes, really!
Nope. Not with the real use of the term, not with your change of the term. What it all boils down to is they're creating their own nightmare.
I don't think we're actually arguing about the phrase 'self-fulfilling-prophecy', I think you think I'm trying to rationalize bad behaviour. You'll be happy to know I'm not.
Yet another example of Slashdot Sensationalism. This is why nobody should assume they have mastered a topic solely because they read all the Slashdot babble about it.
On behalf of Slashdot, I apologize. You'd think a bunch of nerds fapping to Princess Leia in a bikini* would remember enough of their Star Trek lessons to not generalize this way.
Are you kidding? All of the big publishers have one foot out the door of the PC market, and have for several years, because of the rampant piracy.
No it isn't. It's because they're not making the money they want. Some assume it's because nobody pays for games even though other answers are staring them in the face.
Our measurements of piracy rates on a recent AAA title I worked on, were over 90%.
Uh huh. And was this AAA title any good? Was it, by chance, a game where you're running around, picking up different guns, and shooting other people? Perhaps some gimmick was put in so it'd be 'better' than whatever's popular at the time? I ask because a number of other titles on the PC have sold over half a million and a few more have sold well over a million. 'Rampant piracy' gets blamed when you've got a flooded PC game market where the average game is lucky to be on shelves a whole month. It's really really easy for me to picture right now that you worked on a high budget game, it wasn't on shelves for very long, and a year later a patch was released and you noticed a million people downloading it.
Believe me, you don't know chagrin until you've spent years of your life crafting a product only to watch it sell maybe 200,000 copies and yet for some reason, several million people are downloading each patch.
I've got an incomplete picture here. Was there buzz around the game? Good reviews? What reason do you have to think that if the game wasn't pirate-able it would have sold any more than 200,000 copies?
To make a AAA game can cost anywhere from $10 million to $40 million or more. It just doesn't make sense to make such games for the PC anymore, because there's an entire generation of PC gamers now who are too fucking cheap to pay for their entertainment, and will just use any excuse to justify pirating it instead.
Oh please. The problem is that the market doesn't have the room for another forty million dollar space soldier shoot-em-up game. Spare me the piracy crap, you know damn well the more money that goes into making a PC game the 'safer' it is. Nobody these days seems to remember what happened to Atari. It's funny that you zip right on over to piracy when there's a half dozen other non-trivial reasons why gaming on PC is an unsustainable market, especially when you pointed out earlier that you're estimating piracy by the release of a patch.
A self-fulfilling prophecy would imply that customers would have no choice but to turn to piracy....
Not really. But it doesn't matter because it's a close enough change in definition to serve in this particular case. Pirated versions of games have value to those who paid for them. They can install it whenever they want and don't have to call customer service to activate it. Pirated movies don't include those trailers that the player won't skip. The barrier to entry on piracy is low, so when these annoyances build up, people start moving to towards it. They are creating a scenario where they could potentially be killed by piracy.
Do you think you will be able to pry your face from the back of ambulance to spew some more lies in an attempt to make yourself seem more legitimate as a person?
I'll take your word for it. You may not believe this, but I've never downloaded music legally or otherwise. I just don't listen to it.
Ah, well you'd probably be surprised to find that that Apple, of all companies, was the one to lead that charge. One day *piff* no more DRM in iTunes. I still can't believe that.
The question isn't which would be pirated the most, but which would be most likely to be profitable despite piracy.
That was understood the first time around and my answer's still the same. Low risk, instant gratification, small files, etc. The list of casual music downloads is waaaaaaaay longer than the list of people who pirate video games. Whereas games are much larger. It's easier to just go to the store than it is to download the game. It's still stupid-easy, but now we're getting into whether it's worth the time or the potential risk of trojans, viruses, etc.
In such a case, I don't think nearly enough people would choose to spend money on the game to support the number and quality of games being made now.
We would already have seen that by now. It hasn't happened. We have not seen a game fail because of piracy and we have not seen a game succeed because it has thwarted piracy. Don't forget that this is the same world that is seeing businesses thrive on selling over-priced coffee and bottled water.
Not really. The GP describes a situation where nobody pays, everyone pirates...
No, he described a scenario where piracy was 'easy and risk free'. That has been the case for at least 6 years. There are no more real bandwidth or computer knowledge prerequisites to being an effect pirate anymore. That floodgate is wide open.
As a former PC Gamer, Im inclined to agree. Personally I also blame the flood of too-similar titles crowding shelf space at the store. It amazes me that with the constant turnover of games that any PC game can enjoy any retail success.
I remember emulating expanded memory on my 286 with a TSR that... well actually I don't know how it did it but it did make Wing Commander think it saw an extra meg of RAM. It worked but it was sllllllooooowwwwwwww. It was unplayable, but it was the first time I saw the hand moving the joystick around on the screen. (On a side note, despite my parents' protestations about playing games too much, things like that helped make me employable years later...)
I never did understand why you needed to have a 386 processor to have 'expanded memory' and why 'extended memory' wouldn't cut it.
I'd like to point out that in all three of those markets DRM is alive and well....
The music industry gave up on DRM yonks ago.
That said, music is a different market, and I think it would have a much better chance of surviving DRM free because of the low cost per song.
Music has the lowest percieved value, smallest file size, and lowest barrier to entry. It's the most likely to be pirated, not the least. Note that Napster was created for sharing music, not for piracy of games, porn, etc.
However, considering the differing states of the two markets, that might not be the best sales pitch for ditching DRM.
The reason to ditch DRM is every copy of software they sell requires a staff of people to keep unlocking and troubleshooting it after the purchase. Instead of a one-time sale, now they can watch the individual profits of their games slowly get eaten away over the years. They're also increasing the value of piracy but not effectively stopping it. Go look up what happened to Spore just before it launched.
That floodgate has been open for PC games, movies, and music for years and those markets haven't even been able to show any damage, let alone been destroyed. If they keep pushing, though, they'll have a self-fulfilling prophecy on their hands.
...and we didn't need gimmicks like motion controllers, photo-realistic graphics and high framerates to enjoy them.
Oh please. Wing Commander was that game you played when you had just dumped a large sum of money into a new computer system and wanted to show it off. VGA graphics, expanded memory, Sound Blaster, megabytes of graphics, multi-media CD-ROM, FMV, etc. That was the one game you always had an optimized boot floppy around for. "Didn't need gimmicks*" my ass, I bet you bought the speech pack for it!
The games were fun, but let's be realistic, none of the Wing Commander games were intended for modest machines.
The downside is all the perfectly good cars that might get damaged. I guess failing to account for that is why you were marked "Troll".
I doubt it. It's probably his "my shit don't stink" mentality. It's easy to imagine he has, or will, at some point in his life, have an avoidable close call.
Put another way: There is not a statistic out there that says nobody who knows how to configure a web-server has ever been hit by a car.
Slashdot Mirror
Just get a Nokia N900 that already gives you full root access and lets you boot into other stuff anyway without encouraging this closed and inferior platform.
Remember back in the 90's when people would argue Mac vs. PC, and then the Amiga guy would chime in and they'd both tell him to shut up? Shut up.
This is very serious, yet most fanboys were just proud it was so "easy" to jailbreak their iPoos.
That's because earlier that day there was a lot of babble about 'rooting' Android phones, and that was only a week or two after Android fans were bragging about how much more they value freedom than iPhone fans.
You both feed off each other.
No, we have the vanilla term, which requires the prophecy to fulfil itself. If people have to decide to make the prophecy fulfilled, it's not self-fulfilling. It's the regular, manual-fulfilling prophecy.
Haha okay, we'll run with your change to the definition. 'Low sales' is not a self-fulfilling prophecy then. Afterall, it only happens because people decide not to buy. :)
This is the attitude I was referring to. The existence of DRM does not mandate piracy. If DRM gets in the way of playing a game, that's bad, but that doesn't mean they have to pirate.
Company fights piracy. Company, during the course of fighting piracy, convinces its customers to demand money back, boycott, and file class action lawsuits. Company dies. That does fulfill your bastardized version of what a self-fulfilling prophecy is even though your own example does not.
This is a fun little word game and all, but what are you really after?
Let's see a graph of how their earnings went up during the attack.
Is there such a word as "shined"?
Yes.
Wasting my breath, I know.
Use fingers.
You posted AC because you knew that this post would show you have way too much information on this show to have a brain.
Heh. Yeah. Because nerd/geek taste in TV is so chic.
Ah, now we have a new mutation of the term that now requires that the prophecy must be morally correct. Heh.
Low sales is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Piracy is not. Piracy is a person's decision. There is no situation where piracy is an option, and where "not buying" isn't an option.
Go look up the problems people are having with DRM. When it gets in the way of playing the game, then yes, they may have to pirate it.
Yes, really!
Nope. Not with the real use of the term, not with your change of the term. What it all boils down to is they're creating their own nightmare.
I don't think we're actually arguing about the phrase 'self-fulfilling-prophecy', I think you think I'm trying to rationalize bad behaviour. You'll be happy to know I'm not.
They also apologized. http://www.joystiq.com/2010/09/08/microsoft-apologizes-for-suspending-fort-gay-gamer/
Yet another example of Slashdot Sensationalism. This is why nobody should assume they have mastered a topic solely because they read all the Slashdot babble about it.
Let's just pray Slashdot never instates a "post as you type" feature.
No kiddin. Even the 20 second delay doesn't rid us of the knee-jerk posts. What Slashdot needs is a "post after you think" feature.
On behalf of Slashdot, I apologize. You'd think a bunch of nerds fapping to Princess Leia in a bikini* would remember enough of their Star Trek lessons to not generalize this way.
I'm sorry you had to deal with their bullshit.
Are you kidding? All of the big publishers have one foot out the door of the PC market, and have for several years, because of the rampant piracy.
No it isn't. It's because they're not making the money they want. Some assume it's because nobody pays for games even though other answers are staring them in the face.
Our measurements of piracy rates on a recent AAA title I worked on, were over 90%.
Uh huh. And was this AAA title any good? Was it, by chance, a game where you're running around, picking up different guns, and shooting other people? Perhaps some gimmick was put in so it'd be 'better' than whatever's popular at the time? I ask because a number of other titles on the PC have sold over half a million and a few more have sold well over a million. 'Rampant piracy' gets blamed when you've got a flooded PC game market where the average game is lucky to be on shelves a whole month. It's really really easy for me to picture right now that you worked on a high budget game, it wasn't on shelves for very long, and a year later a patch was released and you noticed a million people downloading it.
Believe me, you don't know chagrin until you've spent years of your life crafting a product only to watch it sell maybe 200,000 copies and yet for some reason, several million people are downloading each patch.
I've got an incomplete picture here. Was there buzz around the game? Good reviews? What reason do you have to think that if the game wasn't pirate-able it would have sold any more than 200,000 copies?
To make a AAA game can cost anywhere from $10 million to $40 million or more. It just doesn't make sense to make such games for the PC anymore, because there's an entire generation of PC gamers now who are too fucking cheap to pay for their entertainment, and will just use any excuse to justify pirating it instead.
Oh please. The problem is that the market doesn't have the room for another forty million dollar space soldier shoot-em-up game. Spare me the piracy crap, you know damn well the more money that goes into making a PC game the 'safer' it is. Nobody these days seems to remember what happened to Atari. It's funny that you zip right on over to piracy when there's a half dozen other non-trivial reasons why gaming on PC is an unsustainable market, especially when you pointed out earlier that you're estimating piracy by the release of a patch.
Grr. It's not a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Uh, yes it is.
A self-fulfilling prophecy would imply that customers would have no choice but to turn to piracy....
Not really. But it doesn't matter because it's a close enough change in definition to serve in this particular case. Pirated versions of games have value to those who paid for them. They can install it whenever they want and don't have to call customer service to activate it. Pirated movies don't include those trailers that the player won't skip. The barrier to entry on piracy is low, so when these annoyances build up, people start moving to towards it. They are creating a scenario where they could potentially be killed by piracy.
So you don't see the ecological value of a vehicle that isn't picky about where it's energy comes from?
Do you think you will be able to pry your face from the back of ambulance to spew some more lies in an attempt to make yourself seem more legitimate as a person?
Not cool.
If the source of pollution is removed from sight does it make it "clean and green"?
Is there some unique property of coal-generated electricity that a solar panel or nuclear generator couldn't replicate?
I'll take your word for it. You may not believe this, but I've never downloaded music legally or otherwise. I just don't listen to it.
Ah, well you'd probably be surprised to find that that Apple, of all companies, was the one to lead that charge. One day *piff* no more DRM in iTunes. I still can't believe that.
The question isn't which would be pirated the most, but which would be most likely to be profitable despite piracy.
That was understood the first time around and my answer's still the same. Low risk, instant gratification, small files, etc. The list of casual music downloads is waaaaaaaay longer than the list of people who pirate video games. Whereas games are much larger. It's easier to just go to the store than it is to download the game. It's still stupid-easy, but now we're getting into whether it's worth the time or the potential risk of trojans, viruses, etc.
In such a case, I don't think nearly enough people would choose to spend money on the game to support the number and quality of games being made now.
We would already have seen that by now. It hasn't happened. We have not seen a game fail because of piracy and we have not seen a game succeed because it has thwarted piracy. Don't forget that this is the same world that is seeing businesses thrive on selling over-priced coffee and bottled water.
Not really. The GP describes a situation where nobody pays, everyone pirates...
No, he described a scenario where piracy was 'easy and risk free'. That has been the case for at least 6 years. There are no more real bandwidth or computer knowledge prerequisites to being an effect pirate anymore. That floodgate is wide open.
As a former PC Gamer, Im inclined to agree. Personally I also blame the flood of too-similar titles crowding shelf space at the store. It amazes me that with the constant turnover of games that any PC game can enjoy any retail success.
I remember emulating expanded memory on my 286 with a TSR that... well actually I don't know how it did it but it did make Wing Commander think it saw an extra meg of RAM. It worked but it was sllllllooooowwwwwwww. It was unplayable, but it was the first time I saw the hand moving the joystick around on the screen. (On a side note, despite my parents' protestations about playing games too much, things like that helped make me employable years later...)
I never did understand why you needed to have a 386 processor to have 'expanded memory' and why 'extended memory' wouldn't cut it.
Are you blaming piracy? If so, what's your justification for thinking that's the primary reason?
I'd like to point out that in all three of those markets DRM is alive and well....
The music industry gave up on DRM yonks ago.
That said, music is a different market, and I think it would have a much better chance of surviving DRM free because of the low cost per song.
Music has the lowest percieved value, smallest file size, and lowest barrier to entry. It's the most likely to be pirated, not the least. Note that Napster was created for sharing music, not for piracy of games, porn, etc.
However, considering the differing states of the two markets, that might not be the best sales pitch for ditching DRM.
The reason to ditch DRM is every copy of software they sell requires a staff of people to keep unlocking and troubleshooting it after the purchase. Instead of a one-time sale, now they can watch the individual profits of their games slowly get eaten away over the years. They're also increasing the value of piracy but not effectively stopping it. Go look up what happened to Spore just before it launched.
That floodgate has been open for PC games, movies, and music for years and those markets haven't even been able to show any damage, let alone been destroyed. If they keep pushing, though, they'll have a self-fulfilling prophecy on their hands.
...and we didn't need gimmicks like motion controllers, photo-realistic graphics and high framerates to enjoy them.
Oh please. Wing Commander was that game you played when you had just dumped a large sum of money into a new computer system and wanted to show it off. VGA graphics, expanded memory, Sound Blaster, megabytes of graphics, multi-media CD-ROM, FMV, etc. That was the one game you always had an optimized boot floppy around for. "Didn't need gimmicks*" my ass, I bet you bought the speech pack for it!
The games were fun, but let's be realistic, none of the Wing Commander games were intended for modest machines.
Why can't he believe that stupidity has a price even if he has done something stupid?
Because his post would have been longer?
The downside is all the perfectly good cars that might get damaged. I guess failing to account for that is why you were marked "Troll".
I doubt it. It's probably his "my shit don't stink" mentality. It's easy to imagine he has, or will, at some point in his life, have an avoidable close call.
Put another way: There is not a statistic out there that says nobody who knows how to configure a web-server has ever been hit by a car.