In this insanely litigious society, I wonder what kind of copyright release (from all the grillions of Geocities content copyright holders) these "Archive" chaps got? I hope it doesn't come back to bite them.
There's already precedent with archive.org and Google's caching of web pages. Google was actually sued and won in this regard.
An education worthy of the name would include a discussion about choice of language and how to choose one that is most appropriate for a given task. It would include the possibility of buffer overflows and similar bugs as a disadvantage of low-level languages like C or C++.
Certainly true. However, I still stand by my statement with regards to education being a band-aid when it comes to buffer overflows. There's a guard of C/C++ programmers that claim the problem is not significant if programmers were merely educated about it. Compared to a language that makes buffer overflows impossible, and just how easy it is for even an educated programmer to make a mistake, education is a band-aid, even if it's a necessary one.
I get a feeling we're going in circles here, so this is the last post for me.
I do disagree that educating programmers about security is a band-aid.
It is when it comes to buffer overflows vs. using a language that doesn't even allow them.
I don't view "education" and "better tools" as mutually exclusive.
I don't either, except when the tool is rejected in favor of just needing more education and skillful programmers, which is what I was arguing against.
Slashdot editors, please remove the pandering last sentences we see too often in these summaries. You don't need to ask obvious, leading questions. You don't need to make obvious, emotional statements. Just state the facts in the summary.
because while he didn't say perfect, your message about "trusting" the programmers and educating them is part of the same old message from C programmers that these mistakes can be eliminated with sufficiently educated/good programmers. To prevent all buffer overflows, programmers need to be perfect.
I played Final Fantasy X on the PS2 when it came out and was blown away by the opening cut scene, and generally was engaged with the story and gameplay. The Blitzball game-within-a-game was pretty neat too. Now when I compare that to the Final Fantasy II (North American, SNES version) I played, there's no way I'd say X was an inferior game.
See, I'm an older gamer, and I think all this bullshit about games being better back in the day is just the usual old man syndrome.
Your analogy is dumb because it doesn't apply to global warming.
One is base on solid and irrefutable evidence based on simple physics and worldwide evidence of planet-wide destruction. Obviously it would be dumb to ignore that evidence.
Now what's the evidence for CO2? We have some inaccurate climate models. We also have historical evidence of much larger CO2, and it's not the unlivable planet event you're making it out to be.
You, and the posters before you, were talking about global warming, not every pollutant known to man. You threw that in after my reply. I'm not going to argue with you while you keep moving the goal posts.
Oh cut the bullshit. Your post was in reply to a thread about CO2 levels. The fireball was in relation to global warming from CO2. You changed your scope after my reply.
They've been predicting the past for well over 20 years now (great accomplishment, that -- tweak the model until it matches your data). They've been inaccurately predicting the future for almost as long.
And as I've said many times, CO2 isn't the only thing we have to worry about. This is what pissed me off about your response earlier in the thread...I touched on a number of subjects, yet every time your answer involved CO2.
The original post I talked about only mentioned the effects of CO2. I'm not going to go with you off on a tangent when you try to refute my comments on the topic I replied to.
Now, where were those environmentalists who proposed the fireball theory, did you say?
It's hyperbole I picked from the person I responded to, but where's the evidence that "We obviously need to do something, otherwise one day it WILL get real bad"? The climate models are not accurate, and historical levels of CO2 don't support the position.
What a stupid analogy. We know the effects from large asteroid hits are devastating.
Now what are the effects of historical CO2 levels, when in the past there was much more CO2 than there is today? Was the Earth an unlivable fireball? No.
You have no standing to complain. I made one simple statement about historical levels of CO2 (you know, actually looking at historical evidence), and you turn that into:
"So let me get this straight: you are trying to say that we can put whatever we want into the atmosphere and water supplies at any rate we want, and it will never have any sort of effect on the environment? At all? Ever?"
My comment was in response to what you said earlier: "while at the same time it's foolish to think we're going to turn into a fireball in the very near future. We obviously need to do something, otherwise one day it WILL get real bad"
I was responding to your fireball comment, which immediately segued into an eventual doom scenario, which we just don't have the evidence for with regards to CO2. Historically the planet has been at much higher levels.
Slashdot Mirror
In this insanely litigious society, I wonder what kind of copyright release (from all the grillions of Geocities content copyright holders) these "Archive" chaps got? I hope it doesn't come back to bite them.
There's already precedent with archive.org and Google's caching of web pages. Google was actually sued and won in this regard.
it might be illegal to write code that reads and writes your own data.
Hello FAT32 and associated patents.
so it can suckle the money out of your wallet without you noticing what you're doing.
I wonder how it takes money from your wallet without your knowledge.
An education worthy of the name would include a discussion about choice of language and how to choose one that is most appropriate for a given task. It would include the possibility of buffer overflows and similar bugs as a disadvantage of low-level languages like C or C++.
Certainly true. However, I still stand by my statement with regards to education being a band-aid when it comes to buffer overflows. There's a guard of C/C++ programmers that claim the problem is not significant if programmers were merely educated about it. Compared to a language that makes buffer overflows impossible, and just how easy it is for even an educated programmer to make a mistake, education is a band-aid, even if it's a necessary one.
I get a feeling we're going in circles here, so this is the last post for me.
I do disagree that educating programmers about security is a band-aid.
It is when it comes to buffer overflows vs. using a language that doesn't even allow them.
I don't view "education" and "better tools" as mutually exclusive.
I don't either, except when the tool is rejected in favor of just needing more education and skillful programmers, which is what I was arguing against.
I agree with the rest of your post.
I too come from the land down under, where there's rain and censorship.
Don't forget the vegemite sandwiches!
I agree with the parent comment.
Slashdot editors, please remove the pandering last sentences we see too often in these summaries. You don't need to ask obvious, leading questions. You don't need to make obvious, emotional statements. Just state the facts in the summary.
because while he didn't say perfect, your message about "trusting" the programmers and educating them is part of the same old message from C programmers that these mistakes can be eliminated with sufficiently educated/good programmers. To prevent all buffer overflows, programmers need to be perfect.
I'm glad you finally admitted it. Peace out.
I played Final Fantasy X on the PS2 when it came out and was blown away by the opening cut scene, and generally was engaged with the story and gameplay. The Blitzball game-within-a-game was pretty neat too. Now when I compare that to the Final Fantasy II (North American, SNES version) I played, there's no way I'd say X was an inferior game.
See, I'm an older gamer, and I think all this bullshit about games being better back in the day is just the usual old man syndrome.
I'm pretty sure he meant single player.
Your analogy is dumb because it doesn't apply to global warming.
One is base on solid and irrefutable evidence based on simple physics and worldwide evidence of planet-wide destruction. Obviously it would be dumb to ignore that evidence.
Now what's the evidence for CO2? We have some inaccurate climate models. We also have historical evidence of much larger CO2, and it's not the unlivable planet event you're making it out to be.
You, and the posters before you, were talking about global warming, not every pollutant known to man. You threw that in after my reply. I'm not going to argue with you while you keep moving the goal posts.
Study the predictions in earnest. Were they accurate? No, besides "warmer". They predicted much more warming than we have seen.
Oh cut the bullshit. Your post was in reply to a thread about CO2 levels. The fireball was in relation to global warming from CO2. You changed your scope after my reply.
Actually, we can. And have.
You can change an economy on a dime, but at extreme cost.
There is no component for which the evidence is not extremely strong.
The models are not extremely strong. They have been demonstrated to be extremely weak.
They've been predicting the past for well over 20 years now (great accomplishment, that -- tweak the model until it matches your data). They've been inaccurately predicting the future for almost as long.
And as I've said many times, CO2 isn't the only thing we have to worry about. This is what pissed me off about your response earlier in the thread...I touched on a number of subjects, yet every time your answer involved CO2.
The original post I talked about only mentioned the effects of CO2. I'm not going to go with you off on a tangent when you try to refute my comments on the topic I replied to.
CO2 lags temperature.
Predicting weather and predicting climate uses similar models
Short-term weather predictions have gotten quite good. Long-term climate predictions are shit -- they've never demonstrated any reliable accuracy.
The earth can handle it. We, however, probably won't, especially if the change happens quickly
But we still don't know what unchecked emissions of CO2 will do to today's climate.
Now, where were those environmentalists who proposed the fireball theory, did you say?
It's hyperbole I picked from the person I responded to, but where's the evidence that "We obviously need to do something, otherwise one day it WILL get real bad"? The climate models are not accurate, and historical levels of CO2 don't support the position.
What a stupid analogy. We know the effects from large asteroid hits are devastating.
Now what are the effects of historical CO2 levels, when in the past there was much more CO2 than there is today? Was the Earth an unlivable fireball? No.
Is today "pay no attention to what was said"?
You have no standing to complain. I made one simple statement about historical levels of CO2 (you know, actually looking at historical evidence), and you turn that into:
"So let me get this straight: you are trying to say that we can put whatever we want into the atmosphere and water supplies at any rate we want, and it will never have any sort of effect on the environment? At all? Ever?"
My comment was in response to what you said earlier: "while at the same time it's foolish to think we're going to turn into a fireball in the very near future. We obviously need to do something, otherwise one day it WILL get real bad"
I was responding to your fireball comment, which immediately segued into an eventual doom scenario, which we just don't have the evidence for with regards to CO2. Historically the planet has been at much higher levels.
I agree. My point was that the Department of Defense failed miserably in their effort to standardize on Ada.
It's not alarmist, it's a logical progression.
The logical thing to do is to look at CO2 concentrations of the Earth in the past and the corresponding weather. It wasn't a fireball.