Depends. If you want something to do with TCP/IP stack, maybe FreeBSD is more convenient. Speed is same, after you tuned Solaris TCP/IP stack from conservative-soft-and-slow to aggressive, as it is by default in FreeBSD. As of OS itself, it is very cool that FreeBSD finally got 13th version of ZFS, working through kernel mapping, but I prefer *native* ZFS Pool version of 22 that does not hangs with kernel panic, faster Java (I do need it) and better memory management...:-) In fact, may folks forgive me, but BSD is too old and great candidate for museum. I would bet on Solaris, since it is much more advanced than FreeBSD (look for COMSTAR or Crossbow projects, for example). Additionally, if you need Java, then it has problems with threads on FreeBSD -- hence Yahoo! was decided to go with PHP instead Java (although they do really wanted Java, but all FreeBSD's won't allow that go smoothly). I also think that FreeBSD is quite good for routers (again: pf is somewhat more advanced than ipf, and OpenSolaris is using older Quagga). But there is no much way to port pf to OpenSolaris due to kernel differences. But I would think twice if I need application server[s] or mail -- Solaris is better here.
Both systems are stable.
Also I do like OpenSolaris release is scheduled each 6 months, while I really hate FreeBSD release depends on Moon phase, Solar interference waves and an atmosphere speed on Jupiter...
But who is actually impressed? I have no idea why I need to boot into a browser. I already have Linux and it already has a browser. Besides, it works offline without Google Gears crap as well, as running OpenOffice.org without that Google Docs crap, as well as running Firefox instead of Chrome shit, as well as I can customize it as I want instead of Chromium OS, as well as I can develop for it in any IDE I like.
Google looks to me like Oracle recently: they have great relational database (same as Google has great search engine) but then everything else is a plain crap, but very nice marketing.
Google got Android. And Android got a browser in it. WTF?
Chrome OS is plain stupid thing, that will work only you have an internet connection. What you can use Chrome OS for? Page Layout Design? I don't think so. For heavy Photoshop/GIMP process? I don't think so. For movies? Yes, as long as these are from YouTube. Imagine you bought that machine. And that machine costs money.
Now, you have your standard laptop/desktop and you have this Google thingy. Obviously, you want it portable, so it is in your netbook. How I supposed to use this in metro? train? airplane? bus?... How to read a single PDF, having none of internet connection?
These fucking morons only doing shit to people. Frenchies pushing brain-dead laws, lobbied by M$ and now they are fucking with Oracle. Stupid dickheads, they know zero about Drizzle (MySQL fork), PostgreSQL and other open source players.
So MySQL is not really a deal. Real deal is that Microsoft and IBM does not likes Oracle purchase and here I suspect black money to block acquiring Sun.
No, why troll... First, Yahoo is not only on BSD. Second, BSD is widely in a Cisco stuff, mostly for network appliances, routers, firewalls etc. It is very good firmware-like OS for network stuff.
Not much buggy, but slow as hell, fugly result and just cheap experience (OpenOffice.org). I have it installed and I have to use it at work because company using it in most cases. However, it just so sucks to work with and most of one-way documents I do in iWork instead (then render as PDF). I wish it change and OpenOffice would be more useful...:-(
Guys, why you still continue "Mac is expensive" line? PC are way more expensive, once you're not satisfied with the software pack that is available for Linux...
Let's face it: equivalent hardware with Lenovo or Dell XPS will cost nearly same as Apple's (and Apple's simplicity, aluminum unibody and button-less multi-touch pad is still a killer here). Now, get Windows Ultimate + some antivirus + MS Office + some iLife equivalent and you will end up way more expensive than you would get just Mac and iWork.
Note: I am on Linux.
Price. I find Macs always $100-$300 USD cheaper than equivalent Lenovo or even Dell, if you find exact class and configuration with exact support etc.
You can use all operating systems: OpenSolaris, Windows, Linux and OSX. Go get VirtualBox and put this stuff there, run OSX.
Mac desktop is way better than Linux. Add here that you also would probably love to sync your iPod, watch some stuff, surf some web and collect some random photos, although this is machine for development. Remembering that X11 still in 2009 can crash if you visit some URL with e.g. Konqueror or Opera...:-(
You can use better software that you can just buy, once you need/want. E.g. I find Adobe Illustrator better than Inkscape and Adobe Photoshop better than GIMP. I also find that OmniGraffle is way better than Dia and iWork better than OpenOffice.org, although OpenOffice.org now natively works on Macs.
Good hardware manufacturer. Slick design. Strong aluminum unibody case. Great keyboard that also has a backlight and withstands my daily abuse.
If you have some more questions, reply here, I will follow.
1. Not true. Apple is not any gunning at M$ as they have zero enterprise software. All their glamour is on home desktop only.
2. Not true. Java Swing is not any horrible (e.g. http://code.google.com/p/macwidgets/). Swing is just a plain canvas, on which you can paint anything you want in any way you want.
In fact, SWT (on which Eclipse is built on) is much more horrific, because it is not customizable much, it is Carbon and looks like an alien within OSX. It is an alien even in Linux in some cases (e.g. those fugly round tabs that you can turn off and get even more fugly squared tabs), while Swing has GTK rendering and yields to Gnome current theming.
And Swing is faster, e.g. Jake (port of Quake-2) works FASTER than original C++ version.:-)
Actually no. They killed Cocoa bridge, because just nobody (smart) used it. And who the idiot is gonna use Cocoa bridge and thus tight up to only one platform, using cross-platform solution?
What not true? BTRFS is using the same device mapping code for RAID and block abstraction that Linux's software RAID and LVM are based on... And that's bad idea. Why you sent me your link to multiple devices?
BTW, I don't know your issue with installation, but if you can not boot, it is usually because of low memory or CD/DVD drive that can not be recognized -- in this case you simply pull it out of motherboard and boot from USB stick.:-) However, your issue might be very different, I don't know...
Well, yes and it is cool, actually. But they are "gamers" (which does not mean they are primitive, it means kinda different profile). They also on MySQL, they don't need talk to FSA and such, they don't have lots of policital sh*t and so on. But if you take all enterprises that runs Linux, let's be fair: you will find that most of them are on RHEL (where is majority) or SLES (and minority).
That means I still agree with you that apt/dpkg is sweet.:-)
lvremove/dev/server1/current.1252985968
Uhmm, I find ZFS tremendously simpler (and better) than LVM stuff... Still:
You can not do it online, only offline, right? (not really remember what is currently now).
Your LVM will require another slice for this, as oppose to ZFS.
It is also using quite a space to do so, while ZFS does not.
And you still can not do rollbacks, that is turns a dataset to a previous snapshot. It is like when a dataset is rolled back, all data that has changed since the snapshot is discarded, and the dataset reverts to the state at the time of the snapshot. This is not what you have on LVM...
You also can not do a writable volume or file system whose initial contents are the same as another dataset or clones. As with snapshots, creating a clone is nearly instantaneous, and initially consumes no additional space.
Don't forget that x86 is way more cheaper and way often wanted. SPARC is OK, but expensive, while currently it is not best time talking about high price.
Hey, I am not accusing you, since not coming from Linux world.:-) Just trying to help... Usually you do is RTFM BigAdmin, check HCL and use opensolaris.org communities & lists in order to get a grip. That's how we did with Linux for years, isn't it.:-)
Yet RPM is the only package management you will find on Enterprise (SLES, RHEL). Canonical is not on Enterprises and does not seems it will be there in a near future. Not because it can't and yes, I love apt-get. However, no CYA paperwork ever done, none of software certification etc.
Well, I couldn't even get OSOL installed on the SPARC machines, so my experience on that side comes from my experiences on x86 boxes.
Well, have you've checked HCL in prior to installation? http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/hcl/ Because if you did and it won't work, then it is a bug and next your move should be reporting it. In my case I even installed it on incompatible hardware (it won't even boot at that time and hanged right I've inserted CD).
You also can subscribe to osol-help@opensolaris.org and ask these questions there. I think you just as everybody else, who comes from Linux world and treats Solaris as Linux.:-) That's understandable, but it is very different culture and philosophy to deal with. If you want get into it, better subscribe to mailing lists you need and look for BigAdmin docs in prior to work with.
As for me, Linux is not any stable: kernel panic was already a regular routine, unfortunately, in both big datacenters I worked in.
Show me Debian on Enterprise. I find ugly RedHat there all the time (banks & finances etc).
Show me how to roll-back your newly upgraded Debian, once you find it is screwed up and some software won't work properly anymore (we all know it happens sometimes, even you've tested in prior on clean environment).
RAM: it is because of Solaris takes everything in RAM anyway. Don't believe what you see on top/ps. This is the way Solaris works: to allocate all-or-maximum-needed RAM possible. Then it will give RAM back to your software, once requested. Just different memory management, that's it.
Just for a record: I've killed all RedHat's around with OpenSolaris and it works like a charm without any failures. Some systems now on snv_121, some on 2009.06 release (AKA snv_111b). So I don't know what you mean by "crashing 3 times". Provide some reproducible steps and it will be fixed, if it is really a problem, not a PEBKAC one.:-)
Slashdot Mirror
Depends. If you want something to do with TCP/IP stack, maybe FreeBSD is more convenient. Speed is same, after you tuned Solaris TCP/IP stack from conservative-soft-and-slow to aggressive, as it is by default in FreeBSD. As of OS itself, it is very cool that FreeBSD finally got 13th version of ZFS, working through kernel mapping, but I prefer *native* ZFS Pool version of 22 that does not hangs with kernel panic, faster Java (I do need it) and better memory management... :-) In fact, may folks forgive me, but BSD is too old and great candidate for museum. I would bet on Solaris, since it is much more advanced than FreeBSD (look for COMSTAR or Crossbow projects, for example). Additionally, if you need Java, then it has problems with threads on FreeBSD -- hence Yahoo! was decided to go with PHP instead Java (although they do really wanted Java, but all FreeBSD's won't allow that go smoothly). I also think that FreeBSD is quite good for routers (again: pf is somewhat more advanced than ipf, and OpenSolaris is using older Quagga). But there is no much way to port pf to OpenSolaris due to kernel differences. But I would think twice if I need application server[s] or mail -- Solaris is better here.
Both systems are stable.
Also I do like OpenSolaris release is scheduled each 6 months, while I really hate FreeBSD release depends on Moon phase, Solar interference waves and an atmosphere speed on Jupiter...
Now is Apple actually supporting BSD with serious funding
Absolutely: http://maryniuk.blogspot.com/2008/03/asiabsdcon-2008.html
But who is actually impressed? I have no idea why I need to boot into a browser. I already have Linux and it already has a browser. Besides, it works offline without Google Gears crap as well, as running OpenOffice.org without that Google Docs crap, as well as running Firefox instead of Chrome shit, as well as I can customize it as I want instead of Chromium OS, as well as I can develop for it in any IDE I like.
Google looks to me like Oracle recently: they have great relational database (same as Google has great search engine) but then everything else is a plain crap, but very nice marketing.
Because it is a sh!t.
Google got Android. And Android got a browser in it. WTF?
Chrome OS is plain stupid thing, that will work only you have an internet connection. What you can use Chrome OS for? Page Layout Design? I don't think so. For heavy Photoshop/GIMP process? I don't think so. For movies? Yes, as long as these are from YouTube. Imagine you bought that machine. And that machine costs money.
Now, you have your standard laptop/desktop and you have this Google thingy. Obviously, you want it portable, so it is in your netbook. How I supposed to use this in metro? train? airplane? bus?... How to read a single PDF, having none of internet connection?
How Java supposed to work there?..
These fucking morons only doing shit to people. Frenchies pushing brain-dead laws, lobbied by M$ and now they are fucking with Oracle. Stupid dickheads, they know zero about Drizzle (MySQL fork), PostgreSQL and other open source players.
So MySQL is not really a deal. Real deal is that Microsoft and IBM does not likes Oracle purchase and here I suspect black money to block acquiring Sun.
No, why troll... First, Yahoo is not only on BSD. Second, BSD is widely in a Cisco stuff, mostly for network appliances, routers, firewalls etc. It is very good firmware-like OS for network stuff.
For everything else you've got Solaris... :-)
Not much buggy, but slow as hell, fugly result and just cheap experience (OpenOffice.org). I have it installed and I have to use it at work because company using it in most cases. However, it just so sucks to work with and most of one-way documents I do in iWork instead (then render as PDF). I wish it change and OpenOffice would be more useful... :-(
And can I run iWork, iTunes, Omni softare and iLife on it at least? Obviously not.
What exactly the pain? :) Because I did exactly the opposite...
Guys, why you still continue "Mac is expensive" line? PC are way more expensive, once you're not satisfied with the software pack that is available for Linux... Let's face it: equivalent hardware with Lenovo or Dell XPS will cost nearly same as Apple's (and Apple's simplicity, aluminum unibody and button-less multi-touch pad is still a killer here). Now, get Windows Ultimate + some antivirus + MS Office + some iLife equivalent and you will end up way more expensive than you would get just Mac and iWork. Note: I am on Linux.
That's the reasons why I do stuff on Apple:
If you have some more questions, reply here, I will follow.
2. Not true. Java Swing is not any horrible (e.g. http://code.google.com/p/macwidgets/). Swing is just a plain canvas, on which you can paint anything you want in any way you want.
In fact, SWT (on which Eclipse is built on) is much more horrific, because it is not customizable much, it is Carbon and looks like an alien within OSX. It is an alien even in Linux in some cases (e.g. those fugly round tabs that you can turn off and get even more fugly squared tabs), while Swing has GTK rendering and yields to Gnome current theming.
And Swing is faster, e.g. Jake (port of Quake-2) works FASTER than original C++ version. :-)
Actually no. They killed Cocoa bridge, because just nobody (smart) used it. And who the idiot is gonna use Cocoa bridge and thus tight up to only one platform, using cross-platform solution?
If you want swing look good on Apple OSX, use http://code.google.com/p/macwidgets/ (I do, looks OK although not perfect yet)
Actually, I hate Eclipse on everywhere (mac, Linux whatever). Use NetBeans -- that one work fine even on Solaris. :-)
The problem I ran into was an error during the install phase that couldn't be worked around.
Oh, well. That's sucks. Had you reported it? Although, if hardware is already so dead old, then I am not sure anyone will fix it...
What not true? BTRFS is using the same device mapping code for RAID and block abstraction that Linux's software RAID and LVM are based on... And that's bad idea. Why you sent me your link to multiple devices?
BTW, I don't know your issue with installation, but if you can not boot, it is usually because of low memory or CD/DVD drive that can not be recognized -- in this case you simply pull it out of motherboard and boot from USB stick. :-) However, your issue might be very different, I don't know...
Linden lab.
Well, yes and it is cool, actually. But they are "gamers" (which does not mean they are primitive, it means kinda different profile). They also on MySQL, they don't need talk to FSA and such, they don't have lots of policital sh*t and so on. But if you take all enterprises that runs Linux, let's be fair: you will find that most of them are on RHEL (where is majority) or SLES (and minority). That means I still agree with you that apt/dpkg is sweet. :-)
lvremove /dev/server1/current.1252985968
Uhmm, I find ZFS tremendously simpler (and better) than LVM stuff... Still:
Not so easy as it would be with ZFS, is it? :)
Don't forget that x86 is way more cheaper and way often wanted. SPARC is OK, but expensive, while currently it is not best time talking about high price.
Hey, I am not accusing you, since not coming from Linux world. :-) Just trying to help... Usually you do is RTFM BigAdmin, check HCL and use opensolaris.org communities & lists in order to get a grip. That's how we did with Linux for years, isn't it. :-)
Yet RPM is the only package management you will find on Enterprise (SLES, RHEL). Canonical is not on Enterprises and does not seems it will be there in a near future. Not because it can't and yes, I love apt-get. However, no CYA paperwork ever done, none of software certification etc.
Well, I couldn't even get OSOL installed on the SPARC machines, so my experience on that side comes from my experiences on x86 boxes.
Well, have you've checked HCL in prior to installation? http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/hcl/ Because if you did and it won't work, then it is a bug and next your move should be reporting it. In my case I even installed it on incompatible hardware (it won't even boot at that time and hanged right I've inserted CD).
You also can subscribe to osol-help@opensolaris.org and ask these questions there. I think you just as everybody else, who comes from Linux world and treats Solaris as Linux. :-) That's understandable, but it is very different culture and philosophy to deal with. If you want get into it, better subscribe to mailing lists you need and look for BigAdmin docs in prior to work with.
As for me, Linux is not any stable: kernel panic was already a regular routine, unfortunately, in both big datacenters I worked in.
Not really.
OMG, no... Actually, C# is way more better than Objective-C by syntax. But I would be much more happy to see Java instead of Mono.
$399 and no trial version and even not Cocoa interface and no Cocoa result? How much does it takes memory? How much time it needs to start?..
Nah, no. I'd better continue with what I already have: Objective-C SDK from Apple.
RAM: it is because of Solaris takes everything in RAM anyway. Don't believe what you see on top/ps. This is the way Solaris works: to allocate all-or-maximum-needed RAM possible. Then it will give RAM back to your software, once requested. Just different memory management, that's it.
Just for a record: I've killed all RedHat's around with OpenSolaris and it works like a charm without any failures. Some systems now on snv_121, some on 2009.06 release (AKA snv_111b). So I don't know what you mean by "crashing 3 times". Provide some reproducible steps and it will be fixed, if it is really a problem, not a PEBKAC one. :-)