But, given the fact that we all NEED a Social Security card to WORK,
Really...good luck finding that law...it doesn't exist. (You are refering to De Facto practice)
a Drivers Licence to DRIVE,
The ability to travel freely is the essence of liberty; it is a natural, irrevokable, right. That right doesn't change because your personal property uses an engine. The requirment of a licence to travel in any fashion is an abomination of freedom.
I am a long standing Libertarian (As in lp.org [lp.org], not liberal), and I am very for the National ID.
You're what us principaled (real) libertarians and anarchists call a Republican in Drag. What you are is a very confused statist. It's a shame the Libertarian Party has been consumed by your type. The LP was the last hope, and now all hope is lost...
Anyone who has built a farm of 1U machines knows its much better to segrigate the storage from the CPU into a storage area network, (SAN) thus Fibre Channel.
Serial ATA only dooms the typical motherboard to mediocrity.
Access time (aka latency) is typically BETTER on IDE. (Because their is less 'overhead') The problem is IDE is locked to the bus, and the more devices you add the more locking and interrupts you have to deal with.
SCSI (which runs over Fibre Channel, among other protocols) does not have this problem as the drive can disconnect from the bus during operation and not consume host CPU time. So no, as you add IDE drives access time will go up.
Fibre Channel is a perfectly viable option, so long as it is released in a 'consumer' version and priced accordingly. The vendors have very little to do in this reguard as they could simply base it on the previous generation of FC (Which gets you 200MB/s in full duplex) and crank down the transceivers so they can't do 30 meters of copper, like the big boys are willing to pay for.
Then we would have a standard interface which is serial, scalable, migratedable to enterprise level, and consolidates all needed protocols. (Remember FC Runs SCSI3, TCP/IP, and handles most anything else) into a single interface.
Sounds good right? BUT NOOO. Instead the vendors have decided to up the dosage of this fucking IDE dogshit again.
Just when you thought IDE would finaly have a stake driven through it's heart, now we have the bastard-serial-son of IDE.
More devices? What's the friggin point if you care an ounce about performance?
I'd like to actually see 150MB/s move across that bus with anything other then a loop back plug! (Ignore this if you're one of idiots out there that believes the Windows benchmarks that say you're doing 50MB/s on your single drive...you're beyond saving.)
Let the flames commence...as I sit back and blissfully watch 90MB/s Bonnie's from my Fibre Channel RAID.
Jesus was an Anarchist. Any objective reading of the New Testament (even with how it's been manged through the ages) will show you that. The true followers of the gospel of Jesus resist any attempt for one man to rule another.
Hell you can get blazing speed out of FAT, but do you want to use it? EXT3 turned me off the second I founoutit it's journeling was a 'bolt on' addition. (Metadata is kept is a private file...very ugly)
ReiserFS has eaten more megabytes then I would have liked...but that was 2 years ago. Comparing Resier which is a mature, next generation FS to EXT3, a revamp which isn't even done yet, is a bad idea.
The only problem here is, as you envelope protocols within protocols, performance becomes an issue. Why not just use IP natively?
I guess in your world networks run via vulcan mind meld. Here on earth tcp/ip requires a transport layer such as ethernet. FC is such a transport layer, that has very little overhead and can carry most any protocol.
Encapcilating SCSI inside of TCP/IP...now THAT would be slow! TCP/IP is in no way geared for low latency direct hardware connect applications.
Anyone that wants to converge NAS and SAN doesn't know WTF they are talking about. It's like saying you want to converge thin-clients with an autonomous machines.
it's called Fibre Channel. 'SAS' digresses. SCSI should rightfully die as a transport. Fibre channel already transports SCSI-3, TCP/IP, and others over a single pair loop configuration similar to ethernet. 'Infiniband' will be the forth coming 10GB general replacement for Fibre Channel...
Serial ATA is of course a joke. What should be done is to standardize a basic non-SCA cabling scheme and spec for 'consumer' rated Fibre Channel, instead of going on with this ridiculous ATA bullshit. (Like SCSI should have been standardized on years ago.)
Cummings v. Missouri (1867). It states, "A bill of attainder, is a legislative act which inflicts punishment without judicial trial and includes any legislative act which takes away the life, liberty or property of a particular named or easily ascertainable person or group of persons because the legislature thinks them guilty of conduct which deserves punishment."
Also of interest:
'A bill of attainder is a law or legal device used to outlaw people , suspend their civil rights, confiscate their property, punish or put them to death without a trial.'
First: It a sad thing *ANY* article on slashdot is consumed by dog shit posts. 20 comments already attached to this article and not a damn one has anything to say.
That said the real story here is the wavelength change. Normal CD's are red lasers. DVD's are blue. This thing is VIOLET. The shorter the light wave, the more dense the data can be. So this is big news because it is a new level of technology, not a progression of one of the current technologies. (Without question some form of this will be adopted)
This means that some of the recent tricks (multi-layers) will probably be applicable to this to yield a VERY high amount of storage, maybe 100-200GB per side. That is of course if they don't come out with an ULTRA-VIOLET laser based system first. (Uhmm does an ultra-violet laser even exist yet??)
OK guys we're at 50GB per platter now. Give me random I/O of 4ms, and I'll chuck my magnetic HD's out of the window.
SSN is not exactly voluntary-- you are supposed to get one if you are a citizen.
Absolutly false. There is NO LAW requiring someone to get a SSN, and many people do no have them based on religous objection. You can read two Social Security Adminstration letters stating this here and here. (PDF's) If you research the law behind the letters you see what they claim about the I.R.C. is misleading. A common practice by the government.
However try to do anything without receiving this mark of the beast. Our lives are a that of second class citizens. I assure you, tell someone up don't have a SSN and you will be delt scowes of hatered and discriminated against extensivly.
National ID is already here in the form of the drivers licence linked to the social security number. With the formal acceptance of it in name by the populus, life in the US for anyone not willing to accept the position of a government slave will be unbearable, and infact, deadly.
It's quite apparent you're unfamilar with the term I used. Next time try harder to understand the words instead of reacting to them. We are all niggers to the state.
--
It's the "House Nigger Syndrome".
Plantation slaves (as Malcolm X pointed out) came in two types:
house niggers and field niggers. The field niggers worked hard
and lived in oppression and turned to religion, and music, etc.,
whatever diversion they could muster to mask the daily misery
they lived in -- while opulence loomed a few hundred yards away.
But the house nigger is a different case. The house nigger
encourages his master. When the house nigger's master succeeds,
the house nigger feels himself successful. "We's doing good,
ain't we boss?!" Or if things go bad for the master, "Lawdy! We's
in trouble now!" Indeed. For if the plantation master is turfed
out, the house nigger gets thrown back into the ranks of the
field niggers.
Now, since things "go bad" for their masters when the field
niggers act up, the house niggers disapprove. The house niggers
scold the field niggers. The house niggers counsel the field
niggers to just work that much harder and make their master
richer, then they'll all benefit.
But some field niggers just never listened. They ran away, or
acted up. They were just too damn stupid to understand the highly
intelligent world of "economics". Damn fools.
> Well, Dave, as you caress your protruding pot belly,
No big gut here.
You seem to think the US is in somehow justified to respond to an attack,
that was brought on by it's own actions.
The point to the quote should be clear:
The government speaks of freedom and liberty, yet it brings war and oppression. Pay attention not to their words, but their actions. Their actions, their fruit, is sour.
It's time to accept the fact. AMERICA IS NOT FREE. IT HAS NOT BEEN FREE FOR A VERY VERY LONG TIME.(Hell it's never been free) It is not becoming a police state, it IS a police state. Some aspects of this police state are mild in comparision to other police states, but that neither changes nor negates the fact of what it IS!
You can keep blowing sunshine up your ass, about how great this shit
hole country is, and how bad another one is. The fact of the matter is that if you want freedom, turn your guns 180 degrees around towards Washington and try toppling the US regime FIRST. Then worry about the governments half way around the world. I'm sure you'll find with this government gone, the people of
Afghanistan will pose little threat to you. (There is a good reason the US was attacked and not Canada!)
> Diplomatic Front. You will no doubt dismiss this, but there was a month-long > demand that the terrorists be turned over.
Who the fuck is the US govt to demand anything? They've caused the original problem.
>(Why should they turn these guys over? Dave, did you see the footage
>from the WTC? No person on earth can claim that's part of civilized behavior.
Did you watch the news September 6th? When the FBI burnt to death another
man in his house in Arizona and the next day LEVELED his entire property with bulldozers so their was no evidence to their actions? Or September 9th? The Michigan man that was holed up in his ranch surrounded by Feds, because he's politcally active about the 'war on drugs' and demands his freedom?
Now the same killers are suddenly my protectors?
Or how about the news of the last few years, while US bombs have fallen all about the earth? How about Panama 1992(?), where 3-5000 civilians were slaughtered under George Bush senior's lead, so as to prop up a puppet government? (Uhm oh they call that one another war on drug campaign) Or the last 90 years, where FUCKING POINTLESS actions by the US and other governments led to WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and countless other conflicts.
Maybe you've missed seeing the news EVERY FUCKING DAY for the last 9 months where Isreali gunships are blowing up peoples meger dirt homes...with the US's blessing.
Why haven't any of these events bothered you? They've bothered me. They've bothered me in the same way September 11th did. That governments all
over the world keep playing games with OUR lives!
But instead you've been a good sheep. You've done what the talking head in
the box told you to do. You embrass the ones that hurt you the most, and you
do it because you know you fear them the most!
> So, I return to your original post, Dave, that cautioned against those
> bearing false fruits. So, far, you've accused the US of only doing harm.
> Sure, there's harm (but it's focused, and undeniably a reaction, not a
> provocation). But you, Dave, the false prophet of this thread, have offered
> false fruits--denying that there's any humanitarian assistance from the U.S.
You speak of destruction as a means to 'justice' and coersion as a means to 'humanitarism'.
I speak of true freedom as the means to itself.
Does the US only do harm? Of course. It is a government. Government only exist by exerscing force. That is the only kind of 'fruit' it can bear. At this point and time the US is the most powerful and arrogent government of the world. Before the US it was Britian. Long ago it was Rome. They all evetually decline then fall. The question is at what point will the human animal evolve enough to stop replictating this failed concept.
Really? I've never met the man. There's got to be the reason he's pissed off now isn't there?
Trying exploring that with a clear mind.
Ask yourself why there's no threats against Canada, or Mexico, or Bazil. Make no mistake these are shithole countries too, but they are not world wide bullies.
And by the way, nice to see you take eveything the press says as gospel. This bin laden guy could be nothing more a twinkle in a propaghandist eye, and you'd merrily march and die for the 'cause'. Stupid.
Fuck them and their turbans. They are responsible for the Government that rules their land
That's the exact argument used by the people that carried out the retaliation attacks on the 11th. By that logic, everyone injured got what they deserved. That's make all parties involved even... Guess the U.S. govt is try to get back ahead huh?
Oh and tough guy, try living in the US with no SS# or drivers licence. See how free you are when you refuse to accept 'a mark of the beast'. We'll see how strong you can be when the courts crucify you for trying to live as a free man, unbeholded to the state.
SHUT UP AND SIT DOWN YOU HOUSE NIGGER! You don't know what balls are!
[I]f I had to choose an American apple over an Afghan apple, I'd take the American apple every time.
I supposed it's easy to choose between two peices of rotten fruit; your tree is always the finest.
It's not so easy to cut down all the trees that produce rotten fruit and plant new ones; it is more difficult to bring down the destructive institutions and the men that control them then it is to side with (some of) them.
Dave
It is time for the governments of the world to step aside and let people live free.
Be on the watch for false prophets that come to you is sheeps covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves.
By their fruit you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorn or figs from thistles, do they? Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit. neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut donw and thrown into the fire.
Really, then, by their fruits you will recongnize those men.
Matthew 7:15-20
What kind of fruit do the men of this country bear?
Slashdot Mirror
But, given the fact that we all NEED a Social Security card to WORK,
Really...good luck finding that law...it doesn't exist. (You are refering to De Facto practice)
a Drivers Licence to DRIVE,
The ability to travel freely is the essence of liberty; it is a natural, irrevokable, right. That right doesn't change because your personal property uses an engine. The requirment of a licence to travel in any fashion is an abomination of freedom.
I am a long standing Libertarian (As in lp.org [lp.org], not liberal), and I am very for the National ID.
You're what us principaled (real) libertarians and anarchists call a Republican in Drag . What you are is a very confused statist. It's a shame the Libertarian Party has been consumed by your type. The LP was the last hope, and now all hope is lost...
Unless they really screwed up...devices daisy chain.
Oh Yeah well I designed my own interconnection hardware, unlike you who just
got lucky on Ebay.
MUUAHAHAAHAH...as if you could ever compare to the size of my swollen throbbing monster!
(P.S. FC currently maxes out at 400MB/s...nice try peewee...)
Anyone who has built a farm of 1U machines knows its much better to segrigate the storage from the CPU into a storage area network, (SAN) thus Fibre Channel.
Serial ATA only dooms the typical motherboard to mediocrity.
Access time (aka latency) is typically BETTER on IDE. (Because their is less 'overhead') The problem is IDE is locked to the bus, and the more devices you add the more locking and interrupts you have to deal with.
SCSI (which runs over Fibre Channel, among other protocols) does not have this problem as the drive can disconnect from the bus during operation and not consume host CPU time. So no, as you add IDE drives access time will go up.
Fibre Channel is a perfectly viable option, so long as it is released in a 'consumer' version
and priced accordingly. The vendors have very little to do in this reguard as they could simply base it on the previous generation of FC (Which gets you 200MB/s in full duplex) and crank down the transceivers so they can't do 30 meters of copper, like the big boys are willing to pay for.
Then we would have a standard interface which is serial, scalable, migratedable to enterprise level, and consolidates all needed protocols.
(Remember FC Runs SCSI3, TCP/IP, and handles most anything else) into a single interface.
Sounds good right? BUT NOOO. Instead the vendors have decided to up the dosage of this fucking IDE dogshit again.
Yeah and I'll see 200MB/s...when it all goes to cache. Trying making your test file 2 X your real memory dumb ass.
Debian Sid: 60 MB of upgrades. 20 Minutes including DL.
Windouche 2000: Sp3 and 3 security patches. 80 minutes and 4 reboots.
'Nough Said
Just when you thought IDE would finaly have a stake driven through it's heart, now we have the bastard-serial-son of IDE.
More devices? What's the friggin point if you care an ounce about performance?
I'd like to actually see 150MB/s move across that bus with anything other then a loop back plug! (Ignore this if you're one of idiots out there that believes the Windows benchmarks that say you're doing 50MB/s on your single drive...you're beyond saving.)
Let the flames commence...as I sit back and blissfully watch 90MB/s Bonnie's from my Fibre Channel RAID.
Freemen own weapons. Slaves don't.
End of argument.
Jesus was an Anarchist. Any objective reading of the New Testament (even with how it's been manged through the ages) will show you that. The true followers of the gospel of Jesus resist any attempt for one man to rule another.
Hell you can get blazing speed out of FAT, but do you want to use it? EXT3 turned me off the second I founoutit it's journeling was a 'bolt on' addition. (Metadata is kept is a private file...very ugly)
ReiserFS has eaten more megabytes then I would have liked...but that was 2 years ago. Comparing Resier which is a mature, next generation FS to EXT3, a revamp which isn't even done yet, is a bad idea.
The only problem here is, as you envelope protocols within protocols, performance becomes an issue. Why not just use IP natively?
I guess in your world networks run via vulcan mind meld. Here on earth tcp/ip requires a transport layer such as ethernet. FC is such a transport layer, that has very little overhead and can carry most any protocol.
Encapcilating SCSI inside of TCP/IP...now THAT would be slow! TCP/IP is in no way geared for low latency direct hardware connect applications.
Anyone that wants to converge NAS and SAN doesn't know WTF they are talking about. It's like saying you want to converge thin-clients with an autonomous machines.
it's called Fibre Channel. 'SAS' digresses. SCSI should rightfully die as a transport. Fibre channel already transports SCSI-3, TCP/IP, and others over a single pair loop configuration similar to ethernet. 'Infiniband' will be the forth coming 10GB general replacement for Fibre Channel...
Serial ATA is of course a joke. What should be done is to standardize a basic non-SCA cabling scheme and spec for 'consumer' rated Fibre Channel, instead of going on with this ridiculous ATA bullshit. (Like SCSI should have been standardized on years ago.)
nor is there much provision in the Constitution for declaring war on a person, or on a group of persons, or on an organization, or on an ideology.
Quite wrong. There is in Art 1 Sec 9 Par 3. Such acts are expessly prohibited.
"No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed."
As you can see the 'terrorist classfication' aspects of the new (and old) laws just passed are clearly unconstitutional.
For the unknowning a definition from this site:
Cummings v. Missouri (1867). It states, "A bill of attainder, is a legislative act which inflicts punishment without judicial trial and includes any legislative act which takes away the life, liberty or property of a particular named or easily ascertainable person or group of persons because the legislature thinks them guilty of conduct which deserves punishment."
Also of interest:
'A bill of attainder is a law or legal device used to outlaw people , suspend their civil rights, confiscate their property, punish or put them to death without a trial.'
First: It a sad thing *ANY* article on slashdot is consumed by dog shit posts. 20 comments already attached to this article and not a damn one has anything to say.
That said the real story here is the wavelength change. Normal CD's are red lasers. DVD's are blue. This thing is VIOLET. The shorter the light wave, the more dense the data can be. So this is big news because it is a new level of technology, not a progression of one of the current technologies. (Without question some form of this will be adopted)
This means that some of the recent tricks (multi-layers) will probably be applicable to this to yield a VERY high amount of storage, maybe 100-200GB per side. That is of course if they don't come out with an ULTRA-VIOLET laser based system first. (Uhmm does an ultra-violet laser even exist yet??)
OK guys we're at 50GB per platter now. Give me random I/O of 4ms, and I'll chuck my magnetic HD's out of the window.
SSN is not exactly voluntary-- you are supposed to get one if you are a citizen.
Absolutly false. There is NO LAW requiring someone to get a SSN, and many people do no have them based on religous objection. You can read two Social Security Adminstration letters stating this here and here. (PDF's) If you research the law behind the letters you see what they claim about the I.R.C. is misleading. A common practice by the government.
However try to do anything without receiving this mark of the beast. Our lives are a that of second class citizens. I assure you, tell someone up don't have a SSN and you will be delt scowes of hatered and discriminated against extensivly.
National ID is already here in the form of the drivers licence linked to the social security number. With the formal acceptance of it in name by the populus, life in the US for anyone not willing to accept the position of a government slave will be unbearable, and infact, deadly.
I thought it was made completely obsolete by python? : >
It's quite apparent you're unfamilar with the term I used. Next time try harder to understand the words instead of reacting to them. We are all niggers to the state.
--
It's the "House Nigger Syndrome".
Plantation slaves (as Malcolm X pointed out) came in two types:
house niggers and field niggers. The field niggers worked hard
and lived in oppression and turned to religion, and music, etc.,
whatever diversion they could muster to mask the daily misery
they lived in -- while opulence loomed a few hundred yards away.
But the house nigger is a different case. The house nigger
encourages his master. When the house nigger's master succeeds,
the house nigger feels himself successful. "We's doing good,
ain't we boss?!" Or if things go bad for the master, "Lawdy! We's
in trouble now!" Indeed. For if the plantation master is turfed
out, the house nigger gets thrown back into the ranks of the
field niggers.
Now, since things "go bad" for their masters when the field
niggers act up, the house niggers disapprove. The house niggers
scold the field niggers. The house niggers counsel the field
niggers to just work that much harder and make their master
richer, then they'll all benefit.
But some field niggers just never listened. They ran away, or
acted up. They were just too damn stupid to understand the highly
intelligent world of "economics". Damn fools.
> Well, Dave, as you caress your protruding pot belly,
No big gut here.
You seem to think the US is in somehow justified to respond to an attack,
that was brought on by it's own actions.
The point to the quote should be clear:
The government speaks of freedom and liberty, yet it brings war and oppression. Pay attention not to their words, but their actions. Their actions, their fruit, is sour.
It's time to accept the fact. AMERICA IS NOT FREE. IT HAS NOT BEEN FREE FOR A VERY VERY LONG TIME.(Hell it's never been free) It is not becoming a police state, it IS a police state. Some aspects of this police state are mild in comparision to other police states, but that neither changes nor negates the fact of what it IS!
You can keep blowing sunshine up your ass, about how great this shit
hole country is, and how bad another one is. The fact of the matter is that if you want freedom, turn your guns 180 degrees around towards Washington and try toppling the US regime FIRST. Then worry about the governments half way around the world. I'm sure you'll find with this government gone, the people of
Afghanistan will pose little threat to you. (There is a good reason the US was attacked and not Canada!)
> Diplomatic Front. You will no doubt dismiss this, but there was a month-long > demand that the terrorists be turned over.
Who the fuck is the US govt to demand anything? They've caused the original problem.
>(Why should they turn these guys over? Dave, did you see the footage
>from the WTC? No person on earth can claim that's part of civilized behavior.
Did you watch the news September 6th? When the FBI burnt to death another
man in his house in Arizona and the next day LEVELED his entire property with bulldozers so their was no evidence to their actions? Or September 9th? The Michigan man that was holed up in his ranch surrounded by Feds, because he's politcally active about the 'war on drugs' and demands his freedom?
Now the same killers are suddenly my protectors?
Or how about the news of the last few years, while US bombs have fallen all about the earth? How about Panama 1992(?), where 3-5000 civilians were slaughtered under George Bush senior's lead, so as to prop up a puppet government? (Uhm oh they call that one another war on drug campaign) Or the last 90 years, where FUCKING POINTLESS actions by the US and other governments led to WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and countless other conflicts.
Maybe you've missed seeing the news EVERY FUCKING DAY for the last 9 months where Isreali gunships are blowing up peoples meger dirt homes...with the US's blessing.
Why haven't any of these events bothered you? They've bothered me. They've bothered me in the same way September 11th did. That governments all
over the world keep playing games with OUR lives!
But instead you've been a good sheep. You've done what the talking head in
the box told you to do. You embrass the ones that hurt you the most, and you
do it because you know you fear them the most!
> So, I return to your original post, Dave, that cautioned against those
> bearing false fruits. So, far, you've accused the US of only doing harm.
> Sure, there's harm (but it's focused, and undeniably a reaction, not a
> provocation). But you, Dave, the false prophet of this thread, have offered
> false fruits--denying that there's any humanitarian assistance from the U.S.
You speak of destruction as a means to 'justice' and coersion as a means to 'humanitarism'.
I speak of true freedom as the means to itself.
Does the US only do harm? Of course. It is a government. Government only exist by exerscing force. That is the only kind of 'fruit' it can bear. At this point and time the US is the most powerful and arrogent government of the world. Before the US it was Britian. Long ago it was Rome. They all evetually decline then fall. The question is at what point will the human animal evolve enough to stop replictating this failed concept.
Dave
Really? I've never met the man. There's got to be the reason he's pissed off now isn't there?
Trying exploring that with a clear mind.
Ask yourself why there's no threats against Canada, or Mexico, or Bazil. Make no mistake these are shithole countries too, but they are not world wide bullies.
And by the way, nice to see you take eveything the press says as gospel. This bin laden guy could be nothing more a twinkle in a propaghandist eye, and you'd merrily march and die for the 'cause'. Stupid.
Fuck them and their turbans. They are responsible for the Government that rules their land
That's the exact argument used by the people that carried out the retaliation attacks on the 11th. By that logic, everyone injured got what they deserved. That's make all parties involved even... Guess the U.S. govt is try to get back ahead huh?
Oh and tough guy, try living in the US with no SS# or drivers licence. See how free you are when you refuse to accept 'a mark of the beast'. We'll see how strong you can be when the courts crucify you for trying to live as a free man, unbeholded to the state.
SHUT UP AND SIT DOWN YOU HOUSE NIGGER! You don't know what balls are!
[I]f I had to choose an American apple over an Afghan apple, I'd take the American apple every time.
I supposed it's easy to choose between two peices of rotten fruit; your tree is always the finest.
It's not so easy to cut down all the trees that produce rotten fruit and plant new ones; it is more difficult to bring down the destructive institutions and the men that control them then it is to side with (some of) them.
Dave
It is time for the governments of the world to step aside and let people live free.
The men of this country bear the following fruit: Fuel Air Bombs. 3-Ton blockbusters. Cruise Missiles. Special Ops.
You've summed it up perfectly....the sour fruits of destruction.
Dave
It is time for the governments of the world to step aside and let people live free.
Be on the watch for false prophets that come to you is sheeps covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves.
By their fruit you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorn or figs from thistles, do they? Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit. neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut donw and thrown into the fire.
Really, then, by their fruits you will recongnize those men.
Matthew 7:15-20
What kind of fruit do the men of this country bear?
http://www.cinonic.com/
Yes a shameless plug...