I think it more likely that MS is trying to kill the *nix world through their deal with Novell - how much longer before software that was Open Source/GPLd becomes MS' property and whole sections of *nix need to be re-written? MS can either put pressure on Novell to copyright or patent the code, or put pressure on Novell to allow MS to patent or copyright the code.
Keep in mind, MS doesnt need to have the code copyrighted - they can patent the "idea" that the code implements, allowing no one else to write replacement code that MS wont consider a violation of their patent.
It cant be as simple as MS trying to get into the Linux market - with what products? They dont have a *nix OS or a *nix app to make money off of in that arena. Anyone remember Connectix? Remember MS' promise to keep support for running on other OS's? Then the OS/2 and Mac clients were dropped... Buy (or buy your way into) anything that they see as a threat and corrupt it from the inside out...
126 stores including mine - and I *am* management, so I think you may be misinformed. 4 in the immediate future, but 126 total.
You can confirm this by going to the CompUSA website and using the store locator. Then pick any state. First, it will tell you "CompUSA operates 103 stores..." or something similar at the top, second it will show you only the stores that will be remaining open (which you will notice is very very few per state). Third, you will notice that over 1/4 of the company's stores will be located in Florida and Texas (27 I believe off the top of my head out of 103).
Good luck to you in your post-CompUSA endeavors. I'm still working on ensuring the transition for my team is easy and doing what I can to give them recommendations or whatever other help I can to find new jobs. I am fortunate to have a wonderful, caring, motivated team and I will miss them.
Most likely, ten years from now 80GB flash drives will be common place enough and not super expensive. But until then, spinning platers!
But by then it wont matter. Windows Leasta will be out and require a Terabyte of install space and multiple terabytes to run, just for a jazzed up UI they licensed from someone else and vaporous claims of better security (this time) (we mean it) (really) (we promise) (but buy our Windows as long as you Live No Care, because you will need it).
Partially wrong. In many states, counties or towns, Amazon could get sued for their actions under numerous charges. The price advertised at check-out is final - regardless of how Amazon came to that error. Period. It IS the law in many jurisdictions, and in those places, Amazon (assuming they are doing so there) would be guilty of credit card fraud and various other charges if they attempted to charge a person's credit card who wanted to keep the merchandise. As one (of many) examples: Westchester County, NY.
Gee funny, I seem to remember calling whoever modded down my post a n00b - I never called everyone a n00b. Secondly, my first/. account predates a very high number of people still active on this board as I joined/. in the early days of/. (A few years ago), a year+ of not having an Internet connection in the apartment I lived in unfortunately and I cannot recall the account password - living many miles from there with a new ISP I cant have it emailed to my email address either. The user number is in the 45000 range though, and the account name is an easy one...
I guess my post confused you to the point you couldnt actually spend the time to respond with a constructive comment - whether that comment was in agreement or not? So you resorted to posting anonymously, and posting nonsense at that.
Very true... we will see when the consumer drop hits... maybe it's identical? Maybe it's not?
If it is identical though, that's really sad, as it means the issues that MS claimed was what was differentiating the Nov 27th and Jan 30 releases were not addressed and the delay was for nothing (other than creating a headache for themselves and their channel partners when it comes time to honor all those "Free Vista Upgrade" coupons).
Even more sad, is if those issues still havent been addressed by the consumer release, then from numerous headaches already being posted about here and elsewhere, neither version (IMHO) were actually RTM - even though one has already long since been sent to manufacturing, and the other will be on it's way soon.
Isnt as polished as a release should be - boils down to needing User Interface work perhaps - which is something MS promised to address for the consumer drop
and it has more than its share of issues - such as app compatibility, drivers, security issues - which is something MS promised to address for the consumer drop
Yes, it has been released... my point is, if they dont think it ready for consumers, and have promised to address that for the consumer release, then why the heck would anyone consider it to be ready for businesses? It's not like they are just adding a screen saver to make it ready for consumers... they are fixing things that anyone in their right mind would consider necessary before a product is no longer considered a beta or release candidate - thus Vista for business customer purchase may be available... but in my opinion wasnt finished...
Oh wait, MS said it wasnt ready for consumers yet, didnt they?
That was because there were still security issues, UI issues, user experience issues, software compatibility issues, driver support issues - that werent addressed.
So my final two part question is -
- If you run a business, are any of those important to you?
- and if so, is the current Nov 29 release actually ready/finished in your mind?
Let me know - really curious what you think about that...
I could post more of them... or you could look some of them up yourself. Google is a great place to start - even though it is a pain to find the newer articles mixed in with the old ones.
On top of that - keep in mind that the Business Release wasnt ready for pressing Nov 27th... it was ready earlier than that to allow for manufacturing (Nov 9th-ish)... so, tell me, are there no changes in the Business version that was RTM on Nov 9 compared to the Consumer version not yet released?
If by some chance, factors changed that (according to MS) were delaying the Consumer release, then why is it the release date hasnt been moved up? Just curious... seems weird that they wouldnt be striving for the Holiday Season release (especially with hardware vendors bitching, and MS having to offer coupons for free or discounted upgrades to live up to the promises and appease their channel partners) they originally wanted if the product is ready - as you claim - as MS earlier claimed it was not - a claim they havent retracted in anything but very vague statements that entirely miss the heart of the matter (completing revisions/fixes MS thought necessary for the Consumer release).
They (MS) dont specify what is RTM (Business or Consumer)... and I've already seen numerous releases of Windows that are identified the same but arent actually the same (yeah, if you look at the full version string there is a difference - but nothing on the box, packaging, manual, disk, etc). And there are enough articles just-pre RTM of the business release, as well as post RTM of the business release still claiming the same reason for the consumer release delay. And of course, they have told some of their channel partners, like CompUSA, the same thing. Maybe they are lying. Weird...
I didnt make (up) the claims as to why the Consumer Release was delayed - Microsoft did. Who am I to assume is correct? Microsoft - or the people who keep claiming they know better than the company who is releasing the OS? Just curious...
I love how some n00b rated this as a TROLL POST... when it is clearly not. Let's see, MS has publicly stated they have more testing to do, "User Experience" and security issues to fix/enhance/implement for the consumer release... all of which are aspects of an OS I think would be important for anything but a beta release. People are running into compatibility issues with various software packages, including MS' own stuff - BIG USER EXPERIENCE issue to me.
Now... someone explain to me how the (very relevant) truth is a troll?
I didnt write Windows Vista... I didnt announce my product wasnt yet ready for consumer release becuase of issues that I think are just as (if not more) pertinent to commercial customer... I'm not responsible for the fact that "User Experience" issues such as compatibility with my own software was fixed - even though previously announcing that such was a work in progress for the consumer release - but not the already released commercial drop.
Now, as to WHY they did this... I speculated why... maybe MS had other reasons, or their reasons were the same and I was right on the mark - instead of marking the post a troll, how about someone explain to me why a product that MS themselves dont deem yet suitable for consumers because of security, UI, testing and driver issues - is ready for the already happened commercial release?
Reality isnt based on how you modded the posts - or what YOU want to believe... reality just is - and in this case, even MS admitted it publicly.
Yep... the crap released now sure is ready... so ready that they are refusing to release it to consumers so they have more time to fix security issues
"But we want to be sure we have the appropriate drivers ready and all the testing done. If I had to pick one aspect of the [delay] it's because we're trying to crank the security level higher than ever." (Allchin) - and fix "user experience" issues as noted elsewhere in the article - and in numerous other articles...
Funny, it was MS who made the claim it wasnt yet "Consumer Ready" and it has been posted lots of places including/. The added time was to ensure it was "Consumer Ready" - I think they (MS) would have a better idea of what they are talking about than you. Yes, what is out may be the "final" version for the business release, but that doesnt make it the final release version according to what they say.
From one of NUMEROUS posts citing the delay in the Consumer release:
Windows Vista delayed into January 2007
"We needed just a few more weeks," Allchin said in a conference call. In a press release, he said "the industry requires greater lead time to deliver Windows Vista on new PCs during holiday. We must optimize for the industry, so we've decided to separate business and consumer availability."
Allchin's comments indicated that the company wanted time to address the last remaining security enhancements to the OS, and that the delay would allow time for all of Microsoft's partners to get on board.
"We're trying to crank up the security level higher than ever," he said. "This came down to a few weeks. We are trying to do the responsible thing here... Maybe in the past we would have just gone ahead but now we're not going to do that."
So explain to me why security enhancements are critical to home users and not to commercial users? Also explain to me where you are correct in stating that Vista is done - as opposed to there being more changes (per Allchin himself) slated to be added BEFORE the consumer release is pressed for January?
Sorry, I guess you have just misread MSs own posts regarding this? Or maybe I have? But I dont think it can be spelled out any better than it has been.
"The White House has begun implementing a new policy toward the U.S. Geological Survey, in which all scientific papers and other public documents by USGS scientists must be screened for content. The USGS communications office must now be 'alerted about information products containing high-visibility topics or topics of a policy-sensitive nature.' Subjects fitting this description might include global warming, or research on the effects of oil drilling in the Alaska National Wildlife Reserve. Anything that might have a negative impact on the economy or the current Administration's plans for despoiling our environment must be inaccessible to those of us who live on this planet and will be adversely affected by changes allowed through keeping our population uneducated about the environmental impacts. Any scientific/geological information that will allow anyone to question current Administration's energy or (lack of) environmentally friendly plans must remain inaccessible to the general public."
I beg to differ... the OS has NOT been released - a beta has been. An unfinished version has been released to businesses, while MS is completing/fine-tuning/fixing numerous portions so that it is "Consumer Ready"... because apparently ripping off businesses with a product they know isnt ready doesnt bother MS. There is a reason why the consumer version isnt out yet - unfortunately MS doesnt think it an important enough reason to not sell to businesses - probably trying to get more $$ in from everyone's end-of-year budget surplusses before that $$ gets rolled to next year or re-allocated as part of next year. Some companies hold off major end of year spending until the next year to show higher profitability. Other companies that budget $$ per year need to spend that money to justify their budget (either to increase it or at least keep it static "Why should we allocate $100,000 towards IT next year when you only spent $80,000?") This allows MS to kill both birds with one stone... grab companies that have to justify their budget so it doesnt drop (or the money doesnt get rolled into next year's budget allowance) and also still be able to grab those companies that will resume major spending when the New Year arrives.
Not really... resuming from hibernation does this. This even worked on ancient thinkpads before ACPI and S3/S4 modes. Simply, it would be loading a hibernation-like file and utilizing the same hardware services to re-initialize the components.
As a matter of fact, with a tool that shouldnt be too difficult to write, it is a pretty simple task. All you need to do is create a small utility partition for the tool and a boot-loader like menu. Boot your system, hibernate your system, copy/rename the hibernation file(s), and then have your "boot-loader" manage the hibernation file it is using.
Keep in mind, I am not saying we could write it as it would have to be tied into the system's BIOS (it would have to "cold-boot" to the utility to change the hibernation file and then restart via the hibernation functions of the machine), but it shouldnt be that difficult for vendors & MS to do... ok, it shouldnt be that difficult for the vendors to create the support to do it... and then maybe in 12 years, 39802043 betas and a lot of fixes, MS will have the latest version of Windows supporting it without crashing like Vista does.
I dont think that hibernation answers the question that the poster was asking. Hibernation is a great way to resume a session. But how about resuming from a "just booted, nothing loaded" scenario?
For some reason, and maybe it is because Microsoft is revising the definition of "booting", people seem to equate resuming from hibernation or sleep or deep sleep modes booting. It is not. It is resuming from...
It is amazing though, that MS now is bragging about how fast Vista "boots" when all it is really doing is resuming from some sort of sleep, suspend or hibernation mode.
The poster brings up a good point. Actual booting could be sped up by having a booted image saved - similar to a hibernation file, that the machine uses to boot from instead of actually going through the boot process of loading everything.
Interesting points... you know, I never stopped to think about it - I just read all the same articles we've all seen and didnt stop to think about those few things...
Thanks for pointing it out.
-Robert
A true *nix, OS/2, VMS user perhaps. But "power user" under WinXP any edition doesnt have the same definition as it does for other OS's. Even a MacOSX power user wouldn't necessarily fit the *nix definition - though MacOSX is written for both the casual user, and the "power user" - as well as even the power user by your/our definition (even if the tools dont come with it).
Slashdot Mirror
Good point... how (or would) that apply to taking the patent route instead of the copyright route?
I think it more likely that MS is trying to kill the *nix world through their deal with Novell - how much longer before software that was Open Source/GPLd becomes MS' property and whole sections of *nix need to be re-written? MS can either put pressure on Novell to copyright or patent the code, or put pressure on Novell to allow MS to patent or copyright the code.
Keep in mind, MS doesnt need to have the code copyrighted - they can patent the "idea" that the code implements, allowing no one else to write replacement code that MS wont consider a violation of their patent.
It cant be as simple as MS trying to get into the Linux market - with what products? They dont have a *nix OS or a *nix app to make money off of in that arena. Anyone remember Connectix? Remember MS' promise to keep support for running on other OS's? Then the OS/2 and Mac clients were dropped... Buy (or buy your way into) anything that they see as a threat and corrupt it from the inside out...
Just my thoughts...
-Robert
126 stores including mine - and I *am* management, so I think you may be misinformed. 4 in the immediate future, but 126 total.
You can confirm this by going to the CompUSA website and using the store locator. Then pick any state. First, it will tell you "CompUSA operates 103 stores..." or something similar at the top, second it will show you only the stores that will be remaining open (which you will notice is very very few per state). Third, you will notice that over 1/4 of the company's stores will be located in Florida and Texas (27 I believe off the top of my head out of 103).
Good luck to you in your post-CompUSA endeavors. I'm still working on ensuring the transition for my team is easy and doing what I can to give them recommendations or whatever other help I can to find new jobs. I am fortunate to have a wonderful, caring, motivated team and I will miss them.
Most likely, ten years from now 80GB flash drives will be common place enough and not super expensive. But until then, spinning platers!
But by then it wont matter. Windows Leasta will be out and require a Terabyte of install space and multiple terabytes to run, just for a jazzed up UI they licensed from someone else and vaporous claims of better security (this time) (we mean it) (really) (we promise) (but buy our Windows as long as you Live No Care, because you will need it).
:-)
Partially wrong. In many states, counties or towns, Amazon could get sued for their actions under numerous charges. The price advertised at check-out is final - regardless of how Amazon came to that error. Period. It IS the law in many jurisdictions, and in those places, Amazon (assuming they are doing so there) would be guilty of credit card fraud and various other charges if they attempted to charge a person's credit card who wanted to keep the merchandise. As one (of many) examples: Westchester County, NY.
Gee funny, I seem to remember calling whoever modded down my post a n00b - I never called everyone a n00b. Secondly, my first /. account predates a very high number of people still active on this board as I joined /. in the early days of /. (A few years ago), a year+ of not having an Internet connection in the apartment I lived in unfortunately and I cannot recall the account password - living many miles from there with a new ISP I cant have it emailed to my email address either. The user number is in the 45000 range though, and the account name is an easy one...
I guess my post confused you to the point you couldnt actually spend the time to respond with a constructive comment - whether that comment was in agreement or not? So you resorted to posting anonymously, and posting nonsense at that.
:-( Not much it seems :-)
Very true... we will see when the consumer drop hits... maybe it's identical? Maybe it's not?
If it is identical though, that's really sad, as it means the issues that MS claimed was what was differentiating the Nov 27th and Jan 30 releases were not addressed and the delay was for nothing (other than creating a headache for themselves and their channel partners when it comes time to honor all those "Free Vista Upgrade" coupons).
Even more sad, is if those issues still havent been addressed by the consumer release, then from numerous headaches already being posted about here and elsewhere, neither version (IMHO) were actually RTM - even though one has already long since been sent to manufacturing, and the other will be on it's way soon.
-Robert
Isnt as polished as a release should be - boils down to needing User Interface work perhaps - which is something MS promised to address for the consumer drop
and it has more than its share of issues - such as app compatibility, drivers, security issues - which is something MS promised to address for the consumer drop
Yes, it has been released... my point is, if they dont think it ready for consumers, and have promised to address that for the consumer release, then why the heck would anyone consider it to be ready for businesses? It's not like they are just adding a screen saver to make it ready for consumers... they are fixing things that anyone in their right mind would consider necessary before a product is no longer considered a beta or release candidate - thus Vista for business customer purchase may be available... but in my opinion wasnt finished...
Oh wait, MS said it wasnt ready for consumers yet, didnt they?
That was because there were still security issues, UI issues, user experience issues, software compatibility issues, driver support issues - that werent addressed.
So my final two part question is -
- If you run a business, are any of those important to you?
- and if so, is the current Nov 29 release actually ready/finished in your mind?
Let me know - really curious what you think about that...
I could post more of them... or you could look some of them up yourself. Google is a great place to start - even though it is a pain to find the newer articles mixed in with the old ones.
On top of that - keep in mind that the Business Release wasnt ready for pressing Nov 27th... it was ready earlier than that to allow for manufacturing (Nov 9th-ish)... so, tell me, are there no changes in the Business version that was RTM on Nov 9 compared to the Consumer version not yet released?
If by some chance, factors changed that (according to MS) were delaying the Consumer release, then why is it the release date hasnt been moved up? Just curious... seems weird that they wouldnt be striving for the Holiday Season release (especially with hardware vendors bitching, and MS having to offer coupons for free or discounted upgrades to live up to the promises and appease their channel partners) they originally wanted if the product is ready - as you claim - as MS earlier claimed it was not - a claim they havent retracted in anything but very vague statements that entirely miss the heart of the matter (completing revisions/fixes MS thought necessary for the Consumer release).
They (MS) dont specify what is RTM (Business or Consumer)... and I've already seen numerous releases of Windows that are identified the same but arent actually the same (yeah, if you look at the full version string there is a difference - but nothing on the box, packaging, manual, disk, etc). And there are enough articles just-pre RTM of the business release, as well as post RTM of the business release still claiming the same reason for the consumer release delay. And of course, they have told some of their channel partners, like CompUSA, the same thing. Maybe they are lying. Weird...
ok, a few googled results for you...
Dec 2, 2006 http://1digit.blogspot.com/2006/12/windows-vista-r elease-delayed.html
Jul 11, 2006 http://www.cio.com/blog_view.html?CID=22868
Nov 29,2006 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic le/2006/11/28/AR2006112801697.html
Note the section about them stating that hardware support and software compatibility support is a factor for the consumer release delay. odd...
Hi Jon,
I didnt make (up) the claims as to why the Consumer Release was delayed - Microsoft did. Who am I to assume is correct? Microsoft - or the people who keep claiming they know better than the company who is releasing the OS? Just curious...
I love how some n00b rated this as a TROLL POST... when it is clearly not. Let's see, MS has publicly stated they have more testing to do, "User Experience" and security issues to fix/enhance/implement for the consumer release... all of which are aspects of an OS I think would be important for anything but a beta release. People are running into compatibility issues with various software packages, including MS' own stuff - BIG USER EXPERIENCE issue to me.
Now... someone explain to me how the (very relevant) truth is a troll?
I didnt write Windows Vista... I didnt announce my product wasnt yet ready for consumer release becuase of issues that I think are just as (if not more) pertinent to commercial customer... I'm not responsible for the fact that "User Experience" issues such as compatibility with my own software was fixed - even though previously announcing that such was a work in progress for the consumer release - but not the already released commercial drop.
Now, as to WHY they did this... I speculated why... maybe MS had other reasons, or their reasons were the same and I was right on the mark - instead of marking the post a troll, how about someone explain to me why a product that MS themselves dont deem yet suitable for consumers because of security, UI, testing and driver issues - is ready for the already happened commercial release?
Reality isnt based on how you modded the posts - or what YOU want to believe... reality just is - and in this case, even MS admitted it publicly.
Here's another great one...
http://www.internetnews.com/ent-news/article.php/3 593251
Especially the last paragraph...
Yep... the crap released now sure is ready... so ready that they are refusing to release it to consumers so they have more time to fix security issues "But we want to be sure we have the appropriate drivers ready and all the testing done. If I had to pick one aspect of the [delay] it's because we're trying to crank the security level higher than ever." (Allchin) - and fix "user experience" issues as noted elsewhere in the article - and in numerous other articles...
From one of NUMEROUS posts citing the delay in the Consumer release:
Windows Vista delayed into January 2007
"We needed just a few more weeks," Allchin said in a conference call. In a press release, he said "the industry requires greater lead time to deliver Windows Vista on new PCs during holiday. We must optimize for the industry, so we've decided to separate business and consumer availability."
Allchin's comments indicated that the company wanted time to address the last remaining security enhancements to the OS, and that the delay would allow time for all of Microsoft's partners to get on board.
"We're trying to crank up the security level higher than ever," he said. "This came down to a few weeks. We are trying to do the responsible thing here... Maybe in the past we would have just gone ahead but now we're not going to do that."
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060321-6433 .html
So explain to me why security enhancements are critical to home users and not to commercial users? Also explain to me where you are correct in stating that Vista is done - as opposed to there being more changes (per Allchin himself) slated to be added BEFORE the consumer release is pressed for January?
Sorry, I guess you have just misread MSs own posts regarding this? Or maybe I have? But I dont think it can be spelled out any better than it has been.
"The White House has begun implementing a new policy toward the U.S. Geological Survey, in which all scientific papers and other public documents by USGS scientists must be screened for content. The USGS communications office must now be 'alerted about information products containing high-visibility topics or topics of a policy-sensitive nature.' Subjects fitting this description might include global warming, or research on the effects of oil drilling in the Alaska National Wildlife Reserve. Anything that might have a negative impact on the economy or the current Administration's plans for despoiling our environment must be inaccessible to those of us who live on this planet and will be adversely affected by changes allowed through keeping our population uneducated about the environmental impacts. Any scientific/geological information that will allow anyone to question current Administration's energy or (lack of) environmentally friendly plans must remain inaccessible to the general public."
I beg to differ... the OS has NOT been released - a beta has been. An unfinished version has been released to businesses, while MS is completing/fine-tuning/fixing numerous portions so that it is "Consumer Ready"... because apparently ripping off businesses with a product they know isnt ready doesnt bother MS. There is a reason why the consumer version isnt out yet - unfortunately MS doesnt think it an important enough reason to not sell to businesses - probably trying to get more $$ in from everyone's end-of-year budget surplusses before that $$ gets rolled to next year or re-allocated as part of next year. Some companies hold off major end of year spending until the next year to show higher profitability. Other companies that budget $$ per year need to spend that money to justify their budget (either to increase it or at least keep it static "Why should we allocate $100,000 towards IT next year when you only spent $80,000?") This allows MS to kill both birds with one stone... grab companies that have to justify their budget so it doesnt drop (or the money doesnt get rolled into next year's budget allowance) and also still be able to grab those companies that will resume major spending when the New Year arrives.
As a matter of fact, with a tool that shouldnt be too difficult to write, it is a pretty simple task. All you need to do is create a small utility partition for the tool and a boot-loader like menu. Boot your system, hibernate your system, copy/rename the hibernation file(s), and then have your "boot-loader" manage the hibernation file it is using.
Keep in mind, I am not saying we could write it as it would have to be tied into the system's BIOS (it would have to "cold-boot" to the utility to change the hibernation file and then restart via the hibernation functions of the machine), but it shouldnt be that difficult for vendors & MS to do... ok, it shouldnt be that difficult for the vendors to create the support to do it... and then maybe in 12 years, 39802043 betas and a lot of fixes, MS will have the latest version of Windows supporting it without crashing like Vista does.
I dont think that hibernation answers the question that the poster was asking. Hibernation is a great way to resume a session. But how about resuming from a "just booted, nothing loaded" scenario? For some reason, and maybe it is because Microsoft is revising the definition of "booting", people seem to equate resuming from hibernation or sleep or deep sleep modes booting. It is not. It is resuming from... It is amazing though, that MS now is bragging about how fast Vista "boots" when all it is really doing is resuming from some sort of sleep, suspend or hibernation mode. The poster brings up a good point. Actual booting could be sped up by having a booted image saved - similar to a hibernation file, that the machine uses to boot from instead of actually going through the boot process of loading everything.
Interesting points... you know, I never stopped to think about it - I just read all the same articles we've all seen and didnt stop to think about those few things... Thanks for pointing it out. -Robert
I think mass extinction from water tables rising would be a bigger concern... just a thought. -Rob
Or eComStation 1.2R or 2.0Beta www.ecomstation.com
New rule: No throwing of aircraft carriers is allowed by international law...
But that would be so much fun!!!
Aircraft carrier... plane launching... cable...
Pulling on a cable that fast isnt that big of a deal.
Though as Jim or someone else pointed out, there are plenty of other alternatives to a cable driven system.
-Robert
"The problem is now matter how hard you try to make something idiot proof, the universe builds a better idiot."
That's called innovation ;-)
-Rob
A true *nix, OS/2, VMS user perhaps. But "power user" under WinXP any edition doesnt have the same definition as it does for other OS's. Even a MacOSX power user wouldn't necessarily fit the *nix definition - though MacOSX is written for both the casual user, and the "power user" - as well as even the power user by your/our definition (even if the tools dont come with it).