Until the Golden masters are made for ANY project/product there is still debug information in the executables. That bloats the size and slows performance. So performance tests don't mean squat. In fact because whoever does the tests can control the results, by the tests and hardware used, the only valid tests are the one you perform yourself.
These articles come out and you can lay money its a student or someone in a small shop who has no idea what the needs are in a real Enterprise IT shop. Enterprise shops have mission critical apps running 24/7/365 and need the redundent power supplies, storage systems, network connections and so on that large systems need. The horsepower it takes to handle enterprise app's with 1500 concurrent users. Even for firewalls and such you needs systems strong enought to handle the I/O for a enterprise and efficently handle large rulesets. I'm looking at systems now with RAID memory, so memory can be hot swapped. Work in a shop with SLA's for five-9's uptime and mean it.
Plus aruthors of article like these don't seem to even seem to be monitoring Linux and how system requirements for Linux are creeping up faster and faster. It wasn't long ago Linux was cool because you could use 386 and 486 boxes with 16-32Mb of RAM. I spent time recently talking with Red Hat and everything was 256-512Mb or more of RAM on SMP Pentium III's. Then you talk desptop boxes KDE and Gnome are getting heavier and heavier. Application like StarOffice, and tools like Kylix need lots of horsepower. To make GuI business app's like those typcial on Mac or Windows chew up lots of CPU cycles.
Bottom line when you talk about Linux hardware define your environment and who your users are. What are your SLA's are. Do you even know what a SLA is?
Oh yes that just what we need is the goverment involved with software funding, which mean they will want to have a say in software technology. Open your eyes they screwed up the MS anti-trust case because they went after them on the browser not business practices. During the trial even the other anti-MS crowd like Sun starting seeing a possible problem with the goverment getting into the business of defining what software is. You can't say MS can't put parts of a browser into the OS, then say putting part of a web browser (Tux) is okay.
What you need is to get a Open Software governing body that all people and corporations can respect. In other words no Stallman or GPL. Then setup to be a charitable organization and start getting donations. Then publish policy on how developers qualify to receive funding, how projects are monitored, timeframes to expect the deliveriables. Setup standards for documentation and real QA testing. You get this established and then more important than users corporations would donate and fund open source.
They all believe in freedom by their own definition of such. They're like the religous right who want to legistate how everyone should think, read, or act. There is no ONE correct way. Freedom is simply freedom of choice. There are plenty of computers and users in this world for proprietary, non-proprietary, free, and commericial software. Nothing wrong if you like GPL or ESR, Stallman, or MS just don't insist everyone else has to.
What's the old saying you become what you critize?
It would appear Linux developers should spend less time bash MS and more time testing their work. As I've said before having lot of people using code in NOT real QA testing. Lack of real QA testing is the major flaw in the open source model. People only do what is fun or interesting to work on, the real dirty work of testing and documentation is half heartedly done.
Linux community should be pressuring the commericial venders selling Linux (Compaq, Dell, IBM and so on) to make major investment in real testing and documentation. It seems only fair being they are saving on MS licenses. Of course all this would depend on a standard Linux. But that only seem to a topic of conversation, nothing the community appears truly interested in.
Loki didn't do their marketing, Linux is for servers, real computers don't have video cards. They should of been writing a great volume manager, high availability software, a better load balancer.
As I noted, and you missed, most tools have a legitimate use, BUT they are mostly used for pirating. You are paying higher prices for music, movies and etc to compesate for people making illegal copies. You pay extra for cassettes and other blank media to compensate for priates. You are paying through the nose for others misusing tools like this.
You can't deal in reality, you should be upset with people using tools like this for stealing. They are the reason companies have to fight their existance.
People using legitmate tools for ilegal purposes causes laws to be made that penalitize everyone else. You need to refocus who you are upset with.
I wonder how all you who support this and the similar BS would feel if someone put out simple instructions for a tool to unlock and start any car, especially yours. Sure it could be defended as a tool to help drivers who locked their keys in their car, but obvisouly is a tool for theives. I don't think you'd be out supporting the right to published the instructions so the thirteen year old next door can build the tool in their bedroom.
One thing difference in my picture, stolen cars would help the auto makers sell more cars. But tools like you're talk about, Napster and others take sales away from the maker, but more importantly they take the royalities away from the writers and artists who have to make their living from the pennys the get per sale. In reality tools ike this just drive up the prices of products to make up for the pirated copies. It's a vicious circle, the more people pirate/steal the high prices go, the higher prices go the more people steal. In long run everyone loses.
Actually blame bad SysAdmins and they are platform indepentdent. If NT SA's had done thier job and were up to date on their patches Code Red would of been a moot point. And don't say stupid NT SA, because there are as just many bad Linux admins with unpatch well know exploits. Incompetence is platform independent.
Do your research on the supposed sixty line of stem cells in use, that is a totally bogus number. There are only two or three useable lines. The sixty he refered to is more like thirty, of which many are unusalbe one adult, ones already found unsualble.
I said it before the election here and now again. The only people Bush and his party care about are the Religous Right and his big business supporters. Every decision in the six months he's been in office when studied those are the only ones to benefit. Bush is all to predictable, and we have a scary three and half years ahead.
If you're just some script-kitty hacking on daddys 'puter then you don't need real performance.
If you are running a real business and performance means getting more work done, then the cost is cheap. Faster servers can handle more users or I/O requests. Also equipment goes out-of-date so quickly that, buying less than the best, means you'll just have to replace it sooner.
Open your eyes, the computer makers business is in the dumper and that is having a trickle down effect on software and networking and all throughout the industry. Startups are having trouble getting funding, even Linux companies are in trouble and laying off or killing off divisions. Reality is if XP is released it will generate sales for computer makers and help everyone including the Linux community. Plus MS's dot-zero releases are always buggy, so you'll have lots of things to point fingers at.
Plus who cares about MS in a couple years AOL-Time/Warner will be even bigger than MS and you'll have new target to waste energy on. Energy that you could be using to hack some code and make a real difference.
Because it isn't a big commodity product, so they can't spread the costs out by selling quanity. Also most racks are used in real data or telco centers and they have to meet seimic certification standards. That a lot of cost for testing and liability, but that is why all rack equipment is expensive. With all the dot-comedy crashes out there, the're lots of hardware auctions and deals to be had.
The Ports system is great, sure beats the hell out of RPM and the like. But comparing Ports to.Net is an apples and oranges comparision. What does a source code retrieval/build system have to do with a multi-platform runtime engine for applications. Comparing Java and.Net is closer, but.Net will support (MS claims) fifty languages not one. All.Net really is, is a way to get COM on more platforms.
To understand the movie just imagine asking William Gibson to rewrite Pinocchio. The movie started very Spielberg, started to get interesting, the went Spielberg to the end. To sappy, too much of the kid doing his patented look from Sixth Sense. Like E.T. you have the kid and sidekick robot teddy bear. The beginning of the movie was to short choppy with the parents loving the kid the suddenly turning on him, especially the father. The movie might of been better it it was about thiry minutes shorter. the movie was like this review, disjointed and no flow.
They did the right thing, this case was destine to fail from the beginning. They tried to make it on IE and what is an operating system. Do you really what politicians and judges to define what technology is or isn't. You what them to say a web server shouldn't be part of a kernel like TUX is? I don't think so.
Is MS guilty in terms of how they have conducted business. Sure, and if that is all the case had been about it probably would be a done deal and not dragging on. Also they didn't look at how MS has handled lawsuits and other issues in the past. They drag them out till they don't matter any more or they have adjusted their course as necessary. By the time this case is truly over, it won't mean a thing.
Time to learn Java it is good for app development like VB, but also good for server side development. As VB developer you're used to RAD inenvironment and they are available for Java such as JBuildler, and JBuilder is multi platform. Other's have mentioned Kylix, but first it is WAY TOO EXPENSIVE! Second its Object Pascal not exactly a mainstream langauge so not something that will help you find work in the future. Where Delphi and probably Kylix eventually is popular is consultants. They can develop app's fast like VB developers, but being it creates compiled executables with performace on a par with C/C++ it is popular. Drawback is it isn't as flexible as C/C++ due to being RAD. You can only do what it lets you. But that was also the paradigm of the pascal language.
Tech support sucks because of cheap users. I worked for some of the majors in the industry and every time there was pressure from users to lower prices the support was cut to balance it out. User don't realize support isn't cheap to do. Then users don't want to read documentation it easier to call or email support. Back when I used to do support I actually had customers tell me it my job to read the manual to them. WRONG, its others like you are why you sat on hold for 30 minutes. RTFM! Users think support is there to abuse and by abusing they will get anything they want. No way, when I did support if you got abusive I gave bare minimum support. On the other hand users that were cooperative I would bend over backwards for.
I think everyone should do six months in support ( or work retail) and see what if feel like to be on the other side of a call or a counter. I know now if I call support or customer service I try cooperate and it pays off. Sure there are the occasional support slacker, but after working the other side I know how to make them regret it. No, users are their own worst enemy.
I am speaking from experience and stand by what I say. The cost of the boxes is small compared to cost of supporting and maintaining 8000 boxes. the SA's must have lots of fun when they have to patch 8000 boxes. Their approach to storage I disagree with also, being mainly read data versus write RAID 5 would improve throughput by using more spindles. Centralized storage would be have better performance, be easier to maintain and update data, add fault tolerance, and easier to scale. We haven't even brought up networking, air conditioning or power aspect. I could go but don't feel a need.
Bottom line there is a point where lots of cheap systems are no longer cost effective versus hardware designed for large scale systems. FWIW: If I was to build a system like this on Linux I would use Alpha-based systems not Intel. If to be Intel I would switch OS to FreeBSD or BSDi.
Bragging about having to go from 4000 to 8000 cheap servers doesn't impress me. In fact I see it as bad design and a SA and facilities nightmare. Not using multiprocessor boxes shows another weakness in Linux, SMP and threading. Sun boxes are expensive, but way fewer would be needed and that would save money. FreeBSD on Intel boxes would of been a better choice for its better TCP/IP stack.
I used to feel like this kid and think technical chops were what mattered, but you have to learn why they make the decisions they do in a large company or enterprise. Another big part is the social engineering required to work with lots of different types to get projects approved and completed. Many times what appears as a dumb move in the short term, is a genius in the long run. At the same time there are some really stupid executives out there and you need to be able to spot them too. When you do it is time to update the resume and get out.
We have around 600+ servers of assorted platforms and if power issues get to the servers its too late to do any good. First you need clean power or you're killing the server components. We buy all servers with dual power supplies and run power to separate circuits. Those circuits are on UPS's. The UPS are only good enound to keep the servers up while generators kick in. The main job of the UPS though is to maintain clean power to the servers at all times, so the servers don't need to worry about it. A complete outage will do less harm to a server than dirty power will. Good UPSs have monitoring campabilities that's what you want to watch. I use USP's at home too not to help in an outage but keep the power clean and steady. Especially at home with hair dryers and microwaves and so on causing power dips all the time. Low power can cause lots of problems thoughout a system.
Apple is caving in and dumbing down OS X because old school Mac users can't handle change. They are blowing it. Steve Jobs in the past would never back down, he would tell people to learn a new way to think/work. I was excited about OS X, but now my interest is starting to dimish.
Slashdot Mirror
Wake up rookie!
Until the Golden masters are made for ANY project/product there is still debug information in the executables. That bloats the size and slows performance. So performance tests don't mean squat. In fact because whoever does the tests can control the results, by the tests and hardware used, the only valid tests are the one you perform yourself.
These articles come out and you can lay money its a student or someone in a small shop who has no idea what the needs are in a real Enterprise IT shop. Enterprise shops have mission critical apps running 24/7/365 and need the redundent power supplies, storage systems, network connections and so on that large systems need. The horsepower it takes to handle enterprise app's with 1500 concurrent users. Even for firewalls and such you needs systems strong enought to handle the I/O for a enterprise and efficently handle large rulesets. I'm looking at systems now with RAID memory, so memory can be hot swapped. Work in a shop with SLA's for five-9's uptime and mean it.
Plus aruthors of article like these don't seem to even seem to be monitoring Linux and how system requirements for Linux are creeping up faster and faster. It wasn't long ago Linux was cool because you could use 386 and 486 boxes with 16-32Mb of RAM. I spent time recently talking with Red Hat and everything was 256-512Mb or more of RAM on SMP Pentium III's. Then you talk desptop boxes KDE and Gnome are getting heavier and heavier. Application like StarOffice, and tools like Kylix need lots of horsepower. To make GuI business app's like those typcial on Mac or Windows chew up lots of CPU cycles.
Bottom line when you talk about Linux hardware define your environment and who your users are. What are your SLA's are. Do you even know what a SLA is?
Sorry I mistyped, Tux is a server, but my point stands.
ROFL
Oh yes that just what we need is the goverment involved with software funding, which mean they will want to have a say in software technology. Open your eyes they screwed up the MS anti-trust case because they went after them on the browser not business practices. During the trial even the other anti-MS crowd like Sun starting seeing a possible problem with the goverment getting into the business of defining what software is. You can't say MS can't put parts of a browser into the OS, then say putting part of a web browser (Tux) is okay.
What you need is to get a Open Software governing body that all people and corporations can respect. In other words no Stallman or GPL. Then setup to be a charitable organization and start getting donations. Then publish policy on how developers qualify to receive funding, how projects are monitored, timeframes to expect the deliveriables. Setup standards for documentation and real QA testing. You get this established and then more important than users corporations would donate and fund open source.
They all believe in freedom by their own definition of such. They're like the religous right who want to legistate how everyone should think, read, or act. There is no ONE correct way. Freedom is simply freedom of choice. There are plenty of computers and users in this world for proprietary, non-proprietary, free, and commericial software. Nothing wrong if you like GPL or ESR, Stallman, or MS just don't insist everyone else has to.
FreeBSD fan
What's the old saying you become what you critize?
It would appear Linux developers should spend less time bash MS and more time testing their work. As I've said before having lot of people using code in NOT real QA testing. Lack of real QA testing is the major flaw in the open source model. People only do what is fun or interesting to work on, the real dirty work of testing and documentation is half heartedly done.
Linux community should be pressuring the commericial venders selling Linux (Compaq, Dell, IBM and so on) to make major investment in real testing and documentation. It seems only fair being they are saving on MS licenses. Of course all this would depend on a standard Linux. But that only seem to a topic of conversation, nothing the community appears truly interested in.
Good day.
True, true.
Loki didn't do their marketing, Linux is for servers, real computers don't have video cards. They should of been writing a great volume manager, high availability software, a better load balancer.
As I noted, and you missed, most tools have a legitimate use, BUT they are mostly used for pirating. You are paying higher prices for music, movies and etc to compesate for people making illegal copies. You pay extra for cassettes and other blank media to compensate for priates. You are paying through the nose for others misusing tools like this.
You can't deal in reality, you should be upset with people using tools like this for stealing. They are the reason companies have to fight their existance.
People using legitmate tools for ilegal purposes causes laws to be made that penalitize everyone else. You need to refocus who you are upset with.
I wonder how all you who support this and the similar BS would feel if someone put out simple instructions for a tool to unlock and start any car, especially yours. Sure it could be defended as a tool to help drivers who locked their keys in their car, but obvisouly is a tool for theives. I don't think you'd be out supporting the right to published the instructions so the thirteen year old next door can build the tool in their bedroom.
One thing difference in my picture, stolen cars would help the auto makers sell more cars. But tools like you're talk about, Napster and others take sales away from the maker, but more importantly they take the royalities away from the writers and artists who have to make their living from the pennys the get per sale. In reality tools ike this just drive up the prices of products to make up for the pirated copies. It's a vicious circle, the more people pirate/steal the high prices go, the higher prices go the more people steal. In long run everyone loses.
Actually blame bad SysAdmins and they are platform indepentdent. If NT SA's had done thier job and were up to date on their patches Code Red would of been a moot point. And don't say stupid NT SA, because there are as just many bad Linux admins with unpatch well know exploits. Incompetence is platform independent.
Do your research on the supposed sixty line of stem cells in use, that is a totally bogus number. There are only two or three useable lines. The sixty he refered to is more like thirty, of which many are unusalbe one adult, ones already found unsualble.
I said it before the election here and now again. The only people Bush and his party care about are the Religous Right and his big business supporters. Every decision in the six months he's been in office when studied those are the only ones to benefit. Bush is all to predictable, and we have a scary three and half years ahead.
If you're just some script-kitty hacking on daddys 'puter then you don't need real performance.
If you are running a real business and performance means getting more work done, then the cost is cheap. Faster servers can handle more users or I/O requests. Also equipment goes out-of-date so quickly that, buying less than the best, means you'll just have to replace it sooner.
Open your eyes, the computer makers business is in the dumper and that is having a trickle down effect on software and networking and all throughout the industry. Startups are having trouble getting funding, even Linux companies are in trouble and laying off or killing off divisions. Reality is if XP is released it will generate sales for computer makers and help everyone including the Linux community. Plus MS's dot-zero releases are always buggy, so you'll have lots of things to point fingers at.
Plus who cares about MS in a couple years AOL-Time/Warner will be even bigger than MS and you'll have new target to waste energy on. Energy that you could be using to hack some code and make a real difference.
Because it isn't a big commodity product, so they can't spread the costs out by selling quanity. Also most racks are used in real data or telco centers and they have to meet seimic certification standards. That a lot of cost for testing and liability, but that is why all rack equipment is expensive. With all the dot-comedy crashes out there, the're lots of hardware auctions and deals to be had.
The Ports system is great, sure beats the hell out of RPM and the like. But comparing Ports to .Net is an apples and oranges comparision. What does a source code retrieval/build system have to do with a multi-platform runtime engine for applications. Comparing Java and .Net is closer, but .Net will support (MS claims) fifty languages not one. All .Net really is, is a way to get COM on more platforms.
To understand the movie just imagine asking William Gibson to rewrite Pinocchio. The movie started very Spielberg, started to get interesting, the went Spielberg to the end. To sappy, too much of the kid doing his patented look from Sixth Sense. Like E.T. you have the kid and sidekick robot teddy bear. The beginning of the movie was to short choppy with the parents loving the kid the suddenly turning on him, especially the father. The movie might of been better it it was about thiry minutes shorter. the movie was like this review, disjointed and no flow.
enjoy
They did the right thing, this case was destine to fail from the beginning. They tried to make it on IE and what is an operating system. Do you really what politicians and judges to define what technology is or isn't. You what them to say a web server shouldn't be part of a kernel like TUX is? I don't think so.
Is MS guilty in terms of how they have conducted business. Sure, and if that is all the case had been about it probably would be a done deal and not dragging on. Also they didn't look at how MS has handled lawsuits and other issues in the past. They drag them out till they don't matter any more or they have adjusted their course as necessary. By the time this case is truly over, it won't mean a thing.
Time to learn Java it is good for app development like VB, but also good for server side development. As VB developer you're used to RAD inenvironment and they are available for Java such as JBuildler, and JBuilder is multi platform. Other's have mentioned Kylix, but first it is WAY TOO EXPENSIVE! Second its Object Pascal not exactly a mainstream langauge so not something that will help you find work in the future. Where Delphi and probably Kylix eventually is popular is consultants. They can develop app's fast like VB developers, but being it creates compiled executables with performace on a par with C/C++ it is popular. Drawback is it isn't as flexible as C/C++ due to being RAD. You can only do what it lets you. But that was also the paradigm of the pascal language.
Check out Java and JBuilder.
Tech support sucks because of cheap users. I worked for some of the majors in the industry and every time there was pressure from users to lower prices the support was cut to balance it out. User don't realize support isn't cheap to do. Then users don't want to read documentation it easier to call or email support. Back when I used to do support I actually had customers tell me it my job to read the manual to them. WRONG, its others like you are why you sat on hold for 30 minutes. RTFM! Users think support is there to abuse and by abusing they will get anything they want. No way, when I did support if you got abusive I gave bare minimum support. On the other hand users that were cooperative I would bend over backwards for.
I think everyone should do six months in support ( or work retail) and see what if feel like to be on the other side of a call or a counter. I know now if I call support or customer service I try cooperate and it pays off. Sure there are the occasional support slacker, but after working the other side I know how to make them regret it. No, users are their own worst enemy.
I am speaking from experience and stand by what I say. The cost of the boxes is small compared to cost of supporting and maintaining 8000 boxes. the SA's must have lots of fun when they have to patch 8000 boxes. Their approach to storage I disagree with also, being mainly read data versus write RAID 5 would improve throughput by using more spindles. Centralized storage would be have better performance, be easier to maintain and update data, add fault tolerance, and easier to scale. We haven't even brought up networking, air conditioning or power aspect. I could go but don't feel a need.
Bottom line there is a point where lots of cheap systems are no longer cost effective versus hardware designed for large scale systems. FWIW: If I was to build a system like this on Linux I would use Alpha-based systems not Intel. If to be Intel I would switch OS to FreeBSD or BSDi.
Bragging about having to go from 4000 to 8000 cheap servers doesn't impress me. In fact I see it as bad design and a SA and facilities nightmare. Not using multiprocessor boxes shows another weakness in Linux, SMP and threading. Sun boxes are expensive, but way fewer would be needed and that would save money. FreeBSD on Intel boxes would of been a better choice for its better TCP/IP stack.
No Kudos, shame on Google.
You are correct sir....
I used to feel like this kid and think technical chops were what mattered, but you have to learn why they make the decisions they do in a large company or enterprise. Another big part is the social engineering required to work with lots of different types to get projects approved and completed. Many times what appears as a dumb move in the short term, is a genius in the long run. At the same time there are some really stupid executives out there and you need to be able to spot them too. When you do it is time to update the resume and get out.
We have around 600+ servers of assorted platforms and if power issues get to the servers its too late to do any good. First you need clean power or you're killing the server components. We buy all servers with dual power supplies and run power to separate circuits. Those circuits are on UPS's. The UPS are only good enound to keep the servers up while generators kick in. The main job of the UPS though is to maintain clean power to the servers at all times, so the servers don't need to worry about it. A complete outage will do less harm to a server than dirty power will. Good UPSs have monitoring campabilities that's what you want to watch. I use USP's at home too not to help in an outage but keep the power clean and steady. Especially at home with hair dryers and microwaves and so on causing power dips all the time. Low power can cause lots of problems thoughout a system.
Apple is caving in and dumbing down OS X because old school Mac users can't handle change. They are blowing it. Steve Jobs in the past would never back down, he would tell people to learn a new way to think/work. I was excited about OS X, but now my interest is starting to dimish.