I was in a bar when the owner got shook down. The MAFRIAA lady (ok, it was ASCAP) was HOT and SWEET. The bar owner practically fell over himself trying to find his checkbook. These folks are slick; hell I'd have given her money and I don't even own a bar!
The problem with this discussion is that we haven't even defined the discussion yet.
No, the problem with this discussion is you're being paid to shill your viewpoint, which has very little at all to do with the discussion of DRM and fair use that the rest of us are discussing.
How freaking self-centered does a person have to be to believe that their rights to pirate music are more relevant than the rights of the people who actually own the music?
How freaking self-centered does a person have to be to believe that they can own music? You don't OWN that song you wrote; nobody owns it. What you OWN is copyright; a monopoly on its distribution that lasts for 175 (or so?) years, at which time it is in the public domain.
BTW, I hold copyrights, two of them registered and many of them being infringed on. Some of you people, I swear...
Somebody moderated you "troll" but I din't think you are. I think you're either an RIAA shill or mentally retarded. If you're mentally handicapped I'll apologise now for accusing you of having anything to do with the RIAA and the record labels it represents.
The fact of the matter is when I buy a CD or an online song or a car I expect to do anything with it I damned well please. Rip it to MP3, burn to CD, play it in my car and my iPod and my computer and my toilet, if it's compatible with the toilet. I bought it, I paid for it, and it's mine. What are you, a communist?
We're talking fair use here, ok buddy? NOT copyright infringement. If I wanted to "pirate" it I wouldn't be using iTunes, now would I? I'd just download it from Morpheus.
Nothing whatever. I wouldn't pay a dollar for a song even if the major labels were producing anything I'd want to listen to, anyway. I buy CDs from local bands, and occasionally a used title from Recycled Records or a garage sale and rip it to MP3.
That said, Sony still got me with their "DRM" rootkit when my daughter played a CD she bought at the record store she worked at in it. Wound up costing me $100 for XP (I was running 98 'cause Linux won't work in this box and video drivers were unavailable for 98) and a new sound card. But Sony's rootkit isn't really DRM... is it? DRM is something that trashes your computer?
And tangentially, the argument that "if I don't hear an artist's work, there is zero chance I'll buy the artist's work" doesn't hold for for CD copying.
But it does. If I've never heard of the Playground Heroes amd I'm handed a Playground Heroes CD[1} and I like it, if I see another Playground Heroes CD[2] at WalMart, I'll buy it.
1 that band has "please be kind, burn a copy for a friend" on the cover 2 HAR HAR fat chance
That's a strange statement, since the meaning of copyright is "the right to prevent people from making copies". If I infringe your rights, it's ok, because you still have your rights?
If you (for instance) deny me a FOI card, you have infringed my rights, but you haven't stolen from me.
Odd how you RIAA shills have to make shit up like that.
I'm not making the claim that most downloaders are "impoverished college students" but I'll set your straw man on fire anyway. I won't, however, do your research for you.
I know I was impoverished when I was in school, and I know I listened to a lot of music (we didn't have P2P but we had tape decks).
Every study except the one commissioned by the RIAA says that P2P users spend miore money on music than non-P2P users.
He's downloaded the Green Day songs, when he has the money in his pocket and a new Green Day CD comes out, what is he going to buy, the new Green Day CD, or a random CD from some band he's never heard?
No, he misspoke. What he should have said was that many copyright holders encourage you to copy their stuff. You're saying it's wrong to copy my CD when I say it's ok?
Also, much media (19th century and before) IS in the public domain.
And a question: Why should John Lee Hooker's or Jimi Hendrix's music be copyrighted? After all, you're going to have a damned hard time convncing these fellows to make any more music. They're dead.
I'll see your Berne Convention and raise you a US Constitution.
does anyone actually think that any of the current pop/rap music will be appreciated 20 years from now?
Yup, I'm an old fart, and my generation's music is better than yours.
And it's better than my dad's. He is of the opinion that for some reason, the "big band" music he listened to as a teen was best, but I never liked it when I was young. But go into any bar and the twentysomething musicians are playing MY music (and yours, geezer) for their twentysomething audience.
They're not covering today's music and they're not covering my dad's generation's music. Dad's music had no staying power, and they're not even lietsning to today's music TODAY!
Except then you'd' be full of shit, since copyright infringement is theft.
No, if I shoplift a CD, the store no longer has that CD. If you steal my car, I no longer have that car. If I infringe your copyright you still have copyright. You have lost nothing.
Copyright isn't even property: it is a "limited time" (har har "limited") monopoly. When I write a song or a web page, I don't OWN that song or web page. What I posess is a limited time monopoly on its distribution.
Also, don't forget your local bands. Fuck Metallica.
You know, this not buying RIAA music is pretty easy for me, as the majors have only come up with one band this century that doesn't suck (Buckcherry). Too bad for them, I guess.
The shit on the radio sucks. The majors have lost it completely, they don't even understand their own product. My 75 year old dad stopped listening to the radio, because the country music today "sounds like rock and roll." He's right; I hear it in bar jukeboxes, if Lynard Skynard came out today they'd be played on the country stations, not the rock stations. In the immortal words of Mojo Nixon, "Country ain't got flutes!" (Lets Go Burn Old Nashville Down). And it ain't got violins, either.
What's the difference between a violin and a fiddle? People LIKE fiddles!
Meanwhile, shit like "Staynd" is what they're playing on the so-called "rock" stations. Here's a clue, RIAA shills: Rock and roll doesn't whine, and rock and roll doesn't whimper! Rock and roll isn't played in a minor key. Why is every fucking song on the radio in a minor key these days?
Piracy isn't killing the majors, their bad music and bad business model is.
You mean their favourite band that they wouldn't have heard of if it weren't for promotion by labels part of the RIAA?
No, he means the favorite band he wouldn't have heard if it weren't for your illegal payola that keeps MY friends' indie bands off the radio.
If you're from Sony-BMG you owe me $200 for the damage you did to my computer when my daughter tried to play a CD she bought at a record store in it. Also know that I will never EVER knowingly buy anything whatever from Sony, whether a CD, a TV, or a Dell laptop (because it uses Sony batteries).
Yes, I remember tha AHRA. It's the one that says that consumer digital recording devices must implement a DRM scheme called SCMS in order for the AHRA exception on copying to apply...
Ahem... the AHRA was passed in 1976. There was no such thing as DRM; there weren't even VCRs back then, and there was no digital music. We're talking the stone age there, fellow; before you were even born, probably (or not, since you're probably a shill from Sony-BMG)
"Sorry, the page you requested was not found." IE, 404. So to assuage the disappointment of those who went to the geocities page you gave a URL to, here's a shameless plug for some of my buds.
Free music, courtesy of my friends here in Springfield; I've known and partied with these guys for years. Posamist is playing the Illinois State Fair tonight at the Bud tent, if you're in central Illinois go on out.
Slashdot Mirror
But you're PAYING for them. Apples!=oranges.
You should also link this. And say something about people who use too many Os in "lose".
I was in a bar when the owner got shook down. The MAFRIAA lady (ok, it was ASCAP) was HOT and SWEET. The bar owner practically fell over himself trying to find his checkbook. These folks are slick; hell I'd have given her money and I don't even own a bar!
The bar owner pays ASCAP a set fee for DJs and cover bands.
The problem with this discussion is that we haven't even defined the discussion yet.
No, the problem with this discussion is you're being paid to shill your viewpoint, which has very little at all to do with the discussion of DRM and fair use that the rest of us are discussing.
Either that or I'm biting troll's bait.
And how sad for a society that requires entertainment in order to provide education.
Newspapers are copyrighted. Magazines are copyrighted. Not everything copyrighted is entertainment, genius.
How freaking self-centered does a person have to be to believe that their rights to pirate music are more relevant than the rights of the people who actually own the music?
How freaking self-centered does a person have to be to believe that they can own music? You don't OWN that song you wrote; nobody owns it. What you OWN is copyright; a monopoly on its distribution that lasts for 175 (or so?) years, at which time it is in the public domain.
BTW, I hold copyrights, two of them registered and many of them being infringed on. Some of you people, I swear...
Somebody moderated you "troll" but I din't think you are. I think you're either an RIAA shill or mentally retarded. If you're mentally handicapped I'll apologise now for accusing you of having anything to do with the RIAA and the record labels it represents.
The fact of the matter is when I buy a CD or an online song or a car I expect to do anything with it I damned well please. Rip it to MP3, burn to CD, play it in my car and my iPod and my computer and my toilet, if it's compatible with the toilet. I bought it, I paid for it, and it's mine. What are you, a communist?
We're talking fair use here, ok buddy? NOT copyright infringement. If I wanted to "pirate" it I wouldn't be using iTunes, now would I? I'd just download it from Morpheus.
Nothing whatever. I wouldn't pay a dollar for a song even if the major labels were producing anything I'd want to listen to, anyway. I buy CDs from local bands, and occasionally a used title from Recycled Records or a garage sale and rip it to MP3.
That said, Sony still got me with their "DRM" rootkit when my daughter played a CD she bought at the record store she worked at in it. Wound up costing me $100 for XP (I was running 98 'cause Linux won't work in this box and video drivers were unavailable for 98) and a new sound card. But Sony's rootkit isn't really DRM... is it? DRM is something that trashes your computer?
If I'd examined my daughter's Sony-BMG rootkit CD I would have made a safe copy of it for her to play.
The only problem I have with DRM (besides Sony's rootkit, I mean) is DVDs and the DMCA.
Probably not, but the same principle will apply. A few weeks from now the story on /. will be "Louisiana to Pay for Unconstitutional Gaming Law"
Thanks for that =)
He'll already have their entire collection on his iPod.
Including the ones that have yet to be recorded, I assume. I never realized that P2P had a Time MachineTM module, is that Kazaa or Morpheus?
And tangentially, the argument that "if I don't hear an artist's work, there is zero chance I'll buy the artist's work" doesn't hold for for CD copying.
But it does. If I've never heard of the Playground Heroes amd I'm handed a Playground Heroes CD[1} and I like it, if I see another Playground Heroes CD[2] at WalMart, I'll buy it.
1 that band has "please be kind, burn a copy for a friend" on the cover
2 HAR HAR fat chance
That's a strange statement, since the meaning of copyright is "the right to prevent people from making copies". If I infringe your rights, it's ok, because you still have your rights?
If you (for instance) deny me a FOI card, you have infringed my rights, but you haven't stolen from me.
Odd how you RIAA shills have to make shit up like that.
Well. MY favorite artists sell their CDs at their shows. You can get free MP3s and even lossless files, as well.
P2P is for the indies what radio is for the majors. THAT is why your employer,l Mr. RIAA shill, wants to kill P2P.
I'm not making the claim that most downloaders are "impoverished college students" but I'll set your straw man on fire anyway. I won't, however, do your research for you.
I know I was impoverished when I was in school, and I know I listened to a lot of music (we didn't have P2P but we had tape decks).
Every study except the one commissioned by the RIAA says that P2P users spend miore money on music than non-P2P users.
He's downloaded the Green Day songs, when he has the money in his pocket and a new Green Day CD comes out, what is he going to buy, the new Green Day CD, or a random CD from some band he's never heard?
Samual L. Jackson and Bruce Willis in Unforgiven
"I miss my motherfucking bed!"
"Bed? Motherfuck, I thought you missed your motherfucking wife?"
>thunder rumbles<
"Gonna miss my motherfucking ROOF before too motherfucking long! MOTHERFUCK!"
No, he misspoke. What he should have said was that many copyright holders encourage you to copy their stuff. You're saying it's wrong to copy my CD when I say it's ok?
Also, much media (19th century and before) IS in the public domain.
And a question: Why should John Lee Hooker's or Jimi Hendrix's music be copyrighted? After all, you're going to have a damned hard time convncing these fellows to make any more music. They're dead.
I'll see your Berne Convention and raise you a US Constitution.
does anyone actually think that any of the current pop/rap music will be appreciated 20 years from now?
Yup, I'm an old fart, and my generation's music is better than yours.
And it's better than my dad's. He is of the opinion that for some reason, the "big band" music he listened to as a teen was best, but I never liked it when I was young. But go into any bar and the twentysomething musicians are playing MY music (and yours, geezer) for their twentysomething audience.
They're not covering today's music and they're not covering my dad's generation's music. Dad's music had no staying power, and they're not even lietsning to today's music TODAY!
Go ahead and call the cops, old man!
Would you feel embarrassed to go to your favourite artist (assuming she/he is with a major label) and tell you copied their latest CD?
What would being with a major label have to do with it?
Except then you'd' be full of shit, since copyright infringement is theft.
No, if I shoplift a CD, the store no longer has that CD. If you steal my car, I no longer have that car. If I infringe your copyright you still have copyright. You have lost nothing.
Copyright isn't even property: it is a "limited time" (har har "limited") monopoly. When I write a song or a web page, I don't OWN that song or web page. What I posess is a limited time monopoly on its distribution.
Also, don't forget your local bands. Fuck Metallica.
You know, this not buying RIAA music is pretty easy for me, as the majors have only come up with one band this century that doesn't suck (Buckcherry). Too bad for them, I guess.
The shit on the radio sucks. The majors have lost it completely, they don't even understand their own product. My 75 year old dad stopped listening to the radio, because the country music today "sounds like rock and roll." He's right; I hear it in bar jukeboxes, if Lynard Skynard came out today they'd be played on the country stations, not the rock stations. In the immortal words of Mojo Nixon, "Country ain't got flutes!" (Lets Go Burn Old Nashville Down). And it ain't got violins, either.
What's the difference between a violin and a fiddle? People LIKE fiddles!
Meanwhile, shit like "Staynd" is what they're playing on the so-called "rock" stations. Here's a clue, RIAA shills: Rock and roll doesn't whine, and rock and roll doesn't whimper! Rock and roll isn't played in a minor key. Why is every fucking song on the radio in a minor key these days?
Piracy isn't killing the majors, their bad music and bad business model is.
You mean their favourite band that they wouldn't have heard of if it weren't for promotion by labels part of the RIAA?
No, he means the favorite band he wouldn't have heard if it weren't for your illegal payola that keeps MY friends' indie bands off the radio.
If you're from Sony-BMG you owe me $200 for the damage you did to my computer when my daughter tried to play a CD she bought at a record store in it. Also know that I will never EVER knowingly buy anything whatever from Sony, whether a CD, a TV, or a Dell laptop (because it uses Sony batteries).
Yes, I remember tha AHRA. It's the one that says that consumer digital recording devices must implement a DRM scheme called SCMS in order for the AHRA exception on copying to apply...
Ahem... the AHRA was passed in 1976. There was no such thing as DRM; there weren't even VCRs back then, and there was no digital music. We're talking the stone age there, fellow; before you were even born, probably (or not, since you're probably a shill from Sony-BMG)
"Sorry, the page you requested was not found." IE, 404. So to assuage the disappointment of those who went to the geocities page you gave a URL to, here's a shameless plug for some of my buds.
Here is an old page; their hosting ran out so it only links to the (loathed by slashdot) MySpace page (warning - music plays when the page loads). Here is a shitload of MP3s from them. Here are some more musician friends and here is a half dozen CDs worth of losslessly compressed music from them.
Free music, courtesy of my friends here in Springfield; I've known and partied with these guys for years. Posamist is playing the Illinois State Fair tonight at the Bud tent, if you're in central Illinois go on out.