It's not about losing everything. Being able to die is not required to be qualified as a game in my book. But some form of failure is.
In WoW, you can never fail at anything. You can always try again, without being set back at all. In EVE at least people can steal your stuff when your ship is destroyed. This makes you want to prevent being destroyed. In WoW nobody cares if their character dies, because it has no consequence.
Yeah, and with how many of those millions of users can you actually interact while "playing" WoW? Only a fraction of the amount of people online in EVE right now.
WoW having a lot of users is of no consequence whatsoever, because you only interact with the folks in your realm, which is never more than a few thousand. In WoW, you are not aware of the millions of other players at all.
WoW not having a lose condition is not the only reason why it isn't a proper game. You are right about the lack of a win condition either. This is exactly why Far Cry is a game and why WoW is not: altough the resurrection is some what similiar to loading a saved game, you can actually win a game of Far Cry by making it through the story. Same goes with games like Zelda.
I realise there is no single definition of what a game is, but most of the attributes commonly associated with a game are not present in WoW. Things like quests or raids could be called games, but WoW itself is more like a social platform to host these games. Basically, WoW is Facebook.
So, ten years from now, if you maintain an interest in music, look back on the size of your collection today, and you'll see that it isn't much.
No, in 10 years, 500 albums is still a lot for someone who hasn't been collecting as long as you have.
You are correct in saying that the size of a collection can be called small or large relatively to the time someone has been collecting. This automatically means that if you don't know how long someone has been collecting, you cannot make any judgement on how large or small someones collection is to them.
So don't critize someone for saying his collection is huge, because it is not huge for you. It could very well be huge for him.
If you've been collecting albums for over 25 years, then it makes sense you have a lot of them. But that doesn't mean that a few hundred albums is suddenly "trivial", because you don't know the age of the guy you're saying it to. That fact that you are over 40, doesn't mean everyone is.
And yet you can only communicate with how many other players on WoW? 1000 or something?
At least on EVE you can interact with every other EVE player. I really feel this is a huge advantage. I know several people who play WoW and I would like to join them, but since they're all on different servers, I will have to choose one of my friends to play with and ignore the others. That is simply not acceptable and thus WoW fails for me as a platform for interacting with my friends, which seems to be it's main purpose.
There are about 300,000 subscribers and 45,000 trial accounts. Three days ago there were over 54,000 players online at the same time, which broke their previous record of 45,000 concurrent players earlier this year.
You don't get it. EVE doesn't have "instances". It's one giant instance. Every player is able to communicate and meet up with every other player at any time.
Let's say an average song is 3 minutes, and you're using a bit rate of 192 kbps. That's about 4.2 MB per file, which means you can fit about 7800 songs on a 32 GB iPhone. With an average of 15 songs per album, that's 520 albums. Sure you need some space for other stuff as well, but it's still safe to say you can carry about 450 albums around.
So I wonder... is this the sort of amount that's "a trivial CD collection" to you? I know I don't have that many albums, and I think of myself as a music lover.
It's also the reason why WoW isn't really a proper game: you can't lose. Everything you do is okay and nothing can go wrong. Sure you can be killed, but you just get the chance to try again or try something else without being set back at all.
This makes WoW more of a social platform wrapped in a virtual world than an actual game.
Thanks. I always appreciate people who value good spelling and point out flaws. It really helps. I wish I could edit my comment, but I'll remember this for future writing nonetheless.
Yes, really. In the Netherlands this is not a widely known technique, but it has been used on some films. DVD's which are available with audio description (as far as I know of) include Blind, Zwartboek, De Storm, Oorlogswinter and Bride Flight.
A few cinema's, including CineMec in Ede and City in Utrecht have shown these films with audio description available through an ear piece.
Blind people don't need special CSS. As long as a website's markup is proper, semantic, standard-compliant (X)HTML, the screen reader won't have any problems parsing it.
That's why DVD's come with an extra audio track which contains "audio description". It's basically a voice telling you what is happening on the screen, making the movie accessible to both the blind and people who can't watch the screen for some other reason (walk to the kitchen, driving in a car, etc).
In the UK, it's very common to have this audio description track available on TV as well. The law mandates that at least 10% of all prime time television has audio description included, but in practice a lot more than 10% of the shows include this.
Some cinema's also offer audio description through an ear piece, which blind people can pick up at the ticket booth. That way the blind and non-blind can enjoy a movie together in the same theater.
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It's not harder to come up with a good name in EVE than it is to register a new GMail account.
I agree largely with Chris Crawford's definition of a game.
By this definition, roleplaying activities are indeed not games. Neither are racing games, Tetris, SimCity or Super Mario Bros.
It's not about losing everything. Being able to die is not required to be qualified as a game in my book. But some form of failure is.
In WoW, you can never fail at anything. You can always try again, without being set back at all. In EVE at least people can steal your stuff when your ship is destroyed. This makes you want to prevent being destroyed. In WoW nobody cares if their character dies, because it has no consequence.
It's the social aspect of MMORPG's that is the main appeal. Gamewise neither EVE nor WoW are very good imho.
Yeah, and with how many of those millions of users can you actually interact while "playing" WoW? Only a fraction of the amount of people online in EVE right now. WoW having a lot of users is of no consequence whatsoever, because you only interact with the folks in your realm, which is never more than a few thousand. In WoW, you are not aware of the millions of other players at all.
WoW not having a lose condition is not the only reason why it isn't a proper game. You are right about the lack of a win condition either. This is exactly why Far Cry is a game and why WoW is not: altough the resurrection is some what similiar to loading a saved game, you can actually win a game of Far Cry by making it through the story. Same goes with games like Zelda.
I realise there is no single definition of what a game is, but most of the attributes commonly associated with a game are not present in WoW. Things like quests or raids could be called games, but WoW itself is more like a social platform to host these games. Basically, WoW is Facebook.
Fail. WoW's main purpose is to be an online RPG.
WoW is not a game because it lacks a basic aspect of a game: you can't lose.
It's a social platform. Nothing more, nothing less.
Also, please don't criticize me for misspelling criticize.
So, ten years from now, if you maintain an interest in music, look back on the size of your collection today, and you'll see that it isn't much.
No, in 10 years, 500 albums is still a lot for someone who hasn't been collecting as long as you have.
You are correct in saying that the size of a collection can be called small or large relatively to the time someone has been collecting. This automatically means that if you don't know how long someone has been collecting, you cannot make any judgement on how large or small someones collection is to them.
So don't critize someone for saying his collection is huge, because it is not huge for you. It could very well be huge for him.
No, I have friends on multiple servers, which means WoW doesn't allow me to interact with them all. Even with two friends this is a problem.
For someone who has both Jesus and John Lennon in his signature, you sure seem cynical.
If you've been collecting albums for over 25 years, then it makes sense you have a lot of them. But that doesn't mean that a few hundred albums is suddenly "trivial", because you don't know the age of the guy you're saying it to. That fact that you are over 40, doesn't mean everyone is.
Don't project your standards on others.
And yet you can only communicate with how many other players on WoW? 1000 or something? At least on EVE you can interact with every other EVE player. I really feel this is a huge advantage. I know several people who play WoW and I would like to join them, but since they're all on different servers, I will have to choose one of my friends to play with and ignore the others. That is simply not acceptable and thus WoW fails for me as a platform for interacting with my friends, which seems to be it's main purpose.
There are about 300,000 subscribers and 45,000 trial accounts. Three days ago there were over 54,000 players online at the same time, which broke their previous record of 45,000 concurrent players earlier this year.
How the hell is doing something for 20 years trivial by any human standard?
You don't get it. EVE doesn't have "instances". It's one giant instance. Every player is able to communicate and meet up with every other player at any time.
Let's say an average song is 3 minutes, and you're using a bit rate of 192 kbps. That's about 4.2 MB per file, which means you can fit about 7800 songs on a 32 GB iPhone. With an average of 15 songs per album, that's 520 albums. Sure you need some space for other stuff as well, but it's still safe to say you can carry about 450 albums around.
So I wonder... is this the sort of amount that's "a trivial CD collection" to you? I know I don't have that many albums, and I think of myself as a music lover.
I've always wanted to say this.
If you win or lose a game of basketball, chess, checkers of whatever the game ends. That's quite a consequense, I would say.
It's also the reason why WoW isn't really a proper game: you can't lose. Everything you do is okay and nothing can go wrong. Sure you can be killed, but you just get the chance to try again or try something else without being set back at all.
This makes WoW more of a social platform wrapped in a virtual world than an actual game.
Thanks. I always appreciate people who value good spelling and point out flaws. It really helps. I wish I could edit my comment, but I'll remember this for future writing nonetheless.
Just get a model that is.
Yes, really. In the Netherlands this is not a widely known technique, but it has been used on some films. DVD's which are available with audio description (as far as I know of) include Blind, Zwartboek, De Storm, Oorlogswinter and Bride Flight.
A few cinema's, including CineMec in Ede and City in Utrecht have shown these films with audio description available through an ear piece.
Blind people don't need special CSS. As long as a website's markup is proper, semantic, standard-compliant (X)HTML, the screen reader won't have any problems parsing it.
That's why DVD's come with an extra audio track which contains "audio description". It's basically a voice telling you what is happening on the screen, making the movie accessible to both the blind and people who can't watch the screen for some other reason (walk to the kitchen, driving in a car, etc).
In the UK, it's very common to have this audio description track available on TV as well. The law mandates that at least 10% of all prime time television has audio description included, but in practice a lot more than 10% of the shows include this.
Some cinema's also offer audio description through an ear piece, which blind people can pick up at the ticket booth. That way the blind and non-blind can enjoy a movie together in the same theater.