"You're sure? That's all you have? The distros are using systemd because it makes writing startup scripts easier. They take up fewer lines. That's about it. It has nothing to do with DevOps." - you mean configuration files, not startup scripts. That may or may not be the distros reasons for it but i doubt it. I'm sure they have the staff capable of taking a bash script, copying it and changing a line or two in it for it to work in sysvinit if they wished to, it would be easier than installing systemd.
"Indeed, I don't have the resources to do a full survey of DevOps professionals. I can only ask the people I know." - i wasn't suggesting you do so. I was suggesting the internet would have been ablaze with structured factual comments from these "devops", letters to Redhat etc. a bit like the Devuan guys who put their money where their mouth was and are making their own way without systemd.
"If you are DevOps, or even know of someone in DevOps who uses systemd" it doesn't matter whether i am or not, my point is about the lack of "all these DevOps" that everyone (that is anti-systemd posters) refers to. It should be a large movement capable of stopping systemd developing if they actually existed
its the systemd project, not just the service management program "systemd" - from the announcement
Call for Presentations
We’d like to invite presentation proposals for systemd.conf
2015. We are looking for talks including, but not limited to the
following topics:
- Use Cases: systemd in today’s and tomorrow’s devices and applications,
- systemd and containers, in the cloud and on servers,
- systemd in distributions,
- Embedded systemd,
- systemd on the desktop,
- Networking with systemd,
- D-Bus and kdbus IPC systems,
- and everything else related to systemd.
the AC is one thats got the issue of pronouncing vague and empty comments and they don't require an answer, my response stands. All he has to so is search out the systemd webpage and read.
"If all people did at this conference was convert package init scripts to systemd I would be ecstatic." - that is happening all the time anyway because once they are all starting via systemd, the config files can be given to every distro that uses systemd because they will all work across all the distros unlike init scripts which you have to modify for that distros particular set up. You'll have to make noises to the individual companies that sell programs on linux to provide their own systemd config files.
"Probably because systemd is a very, very BAD solution in search of a problem." - yawn, thats an old complaint used against anything when the troll has the usual fact content of nil
"Of those, I've asked around, and I haven't found any DevOps people who like systemd." - maybe your circle of devops is very limited in number.
I'm sure that if a significant number of credible DevOps (and not the few trolls that make the most noise based on lack of knowledge) voiced valid technical reasons not to use it, Redhat et al would have dropped it.
Some DevOps must be getting worried that more automation of some tasks in their job descriptions are going to be career limiting and the number of DevOps may be cut in an organisation as the work load drops.
"From all the error-reports on the mailing-lists of the distros that have started using systemd," - can you name any system that does not have any bug reports?
" I expect there will be some rather quiet reversal in several distros in the not too distant future." - just don't hold your breath
"And if not, there is no real need to have a Linux kernel under a GNU system. " - thats true, you could install the modular Hurd kernel instead of the monolithic Linux kernel.
"I also see no really serious problems keeping SYSVinit going." - thats good then everyone can be happy.
Feral or wild cats will eat it every time. Dogs are pack animals and some domesticated ones still have that instinct. A dog or fox in a chicken coup with birds jumping all over the place will kill them because they feel they are defending themselves in an enclosed area.
"but predators almost universally kill for sport as well as food." no they don't, only humans do.
" The question is - should we as humans be held to a higher standard." yes but there are too many idiots out there
"Also the logical conclusion would be that the dentist that killed that lion would be a hero for all of the prey animal lives he saved" - no, he would have been killed as a predatory animal. But the predatory animals (except humans) predate to eat not for mindless sport (i use the term "sport" very very loosely as its not a fair fight)
mine stays logged in, no need to keep logging in. i think you don't want your opinions tracked. if you registered, logged in and posted (umlimited posts) we'd know if you are a troll or not.
Slashdot Mirror
"You're sure? That's all you have? The distros are using systemd because it makes writing startup scripts easier. They take up fewer lines. That's about it. It has nothing to do with DevOps." - you mean configuration files, not startup scripts. That may or may not be the distros reasons for it but i doubt it. I'm sure they have the staff capable of taking a bash script, copying it and changing a line or two in it for it to work in sysvinit if they wished to, it would be easier than installing systemd.
"Indeed, I don't have the resources to do a full survey of DevOps professionals. I can only ask the people I know." - i wasn't suggesting you do so. I was suggesting the internet would have been ablaze with structured factual comments from these "devops", letters to Redhat etc. a bit like the Devuan guys who put their money where their mouth was and are making their own way without systemd.
"If you are DevOps, or even know of someone in DevOps who uses systemd" it doesn't matter whether i am or not, my point is about the lack of "all these DevOps" that everyone (that is anti-systemd posters) refers to. It should be a large movement capable of stopping systemd developing if they actually existed
its the systemd project, not just the service management program "systemd" - from the announcement
Call for Presentations We’d like to invite presentation proposals for systemd.conf 2015. We are looking for talks including, but not limited to the following topics: - Use Cases: systemd in today’s and tomorrow’s devices and applications, - systemd and containers, in the cloud and on servers, - systemd in distributions, - Embedded systemd, - systemd on the desktop, - Networking with systemd, - D-Bus and kdbus IPC systems, - and everything else related to systemd.
the AC is one thats got the issue of pronouncing vague and empty comments and they don't require an answer, my response stands. All he has to so is search out the systemd webpage and read.
"If all people did at this conference was convert package init scripts to systemd I would be ecstatic." - that is happening all the time anyway because once they are all starting via systemd, the config files can be given to every distro that uses systemd because they will all work across all the distros unlike init scripts which you have to modify for that distros particular set up. You'll have to make noises to the individual companies that sell programs on linux to provide their own systemd config files.
Just wait until "kdbus" is in the kernel.....
oh dear, an attempt at personal insults - is that the best you can do?
"Probably because systemd is a very, very BAD solution in search of a problem." - yawn, thats an old complaint used against anything when the troll has the usual fact content of nil
"Of those, I've asked around, and I haven't found any DevOps people who like systemd." - maybe your circle of devops is very limited in number.
I'm sure that if a significant number of credible DevOps (and not the few trolls that make the most noise based on lack of knowledge) voiced valid technical reasons not to use it, Redhat et al would have dropped it.
Some DevOps must be getting worried that more automation of some tasks in their job descriptions are going to be career limiting and the number of DevOps may be cut in an organisation as the work load drops.
I guess you could always offer to be a guest speaker and point out the errors of systemd
"From all the error-reports on the mailing-lists of the distros that have started using systemd," - can you name any system that does not have any bug reports?
" I expect there will be some rather quiet reversal in several distros in the not too distant future." - just don't hold your breath
"And if not, there is no real need to have a Linux kernel under a GNU system. " - thats true, you could install the modular Hurd kernel instead of the monolithic Linux kernel.
"I also see no really serious problems keeping SYSVinit going." - thats good then everyone can be happy.
the 1990s called and want their comment back
the majority of those versions use the same kernel (i.e. linux), its the UI around it that is generally different.
you can run quite a lot of Windows programs on Linux by using Wine or you can have Windows in a VM.
sounds like you've not used it yet
what? give the admins more work to do?
Feral or wild cats will eat it every time. Dogs are pack animals and some domesticated ones still have that instinct. A dog or fox in a chicken coup with birds jumping all over the place will kill them because they feel they are defending themselves in an enclosed area.
"but predators almost universally kill for sport as well as food." no they don't, only humans do.
" The question is - should we as humans be held to a higher standard." yes but there are too many idiots out there
"Also the logical conclusion would be that the dentist that killed that lion would be a hero for all of the prey animal lives he saved" - no, he would have been killed as a predatory animal. But the predatory animals (except humans) predate to eat not for mindless sport (i use the term "sport" very very loosely as its not a fair fight)
chimps are probably better candidates for politicians than most humans that apply.
not as dangerous as humans
Bush was on the par with a small rock, not a chimp
"It's only a matter of time until they start abusing their power." - it thought it was already too late
i think you are missing the point. Your 2 examples are down to your or someone else's stupidity, not from the solar power generation itself.
Check the Air Pollution section of this one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
"High cost" can mean death not just financial
worth a read as well http://www.env-health.org/IMG/...
i know but i feel the need to occasionally encourage the lazy ones, i may get a convert one day but i'm not holding my breath.
mine stays logged in, no need to keep logging in. i think you don't want your opinions tracked. if you registered, logged in and posted (umlimited posts) we'd know if you are a troll or not.