A lot of prominent organizations on the internet are somehow posting in/., clearing doubts about the stuff they do - either openly, like some, or anonymously, like some others.
i wouldnt even want to think that ibm thinks they are above us. im looking forward to someone explaining the bullshit going on with those patents either openly, or anonymously here.
Obviously not, it can't even run the postal service.
thats your problem in u.s. you people are bent on scuttling all kind of public services that you are not even letting your own government run its own postal service.
all kinds of services and then some more work perfectly in europe, and on top of it a FAIR free market exists too.
our social rules and laws and codes of contact are preventing the existing frustration and angst of modern people with the way we live these days to come out in the open in society.
instead, it lets itself out in places like internet.
it is absolutely stupid, a total moron's idea to ever think that by preventing the anger from coming out, you can do away with the issue. regardless of it being on the net, or not.
the anger is there. its there becauee modern society become too much hassle to live in. people are living distanced from other people emotionally, in all fast paced, work hard and get less lives.
what would you expect ? roses coming up everywhere ? its just natural.
again we see french headstrongness, stubbornness and self centric behaviour.
for decades they have been trying to force their views on eu, hell, even the world. even french language. so far, not only they failed, but also alienated other nations to themselves. just imagine - they left nato's military wing decades ago, only to return to the military wing recently. what happened ? did nato flounder without them ? no. just they lost credibility.
excuse me 'mon frere's, but you have to wake up and be a team player.
Licensing is not free market. licensing doesnt bolster competition. it creates a limited monopoly for those corporations who were able to buy those licenses.
imagine roads were privatized. imagine 10 companies bought roads, and used them as they wished, and charged anyone using them anything they wished.
do you think we would be in the level we are today as a civilization ?
we wouldnt.
there are some things, venues that need to be open to everyone, for anything, SO THAT competition, free market CAN happen.
FCC should vote totally in favor of this free spectrum. its necessary for betterment of mankind, leave aside internet access in a few locales.
you can put C++ on assembler and run a webserver with it, you can run a C++ coded compiler (PHP) run through that C++ on assembler, but if you keep on putting sh@t on sh@t like putting grouped functions of C++ coded compiler (PHP) on top of a webserver that is coded with C++ on assembler, you will INEVITABLY get scaling issues. there is a limit of higher level you can do to do stuff. and tradeoff in between ease of development and the capability of the environment.
probably any future sh@t on more sh@t stuff (even higher level stuff), leave aside ruby, will experience same scaling issues.
aaaaaah wasnt he one of the people that jumped on another buzz, 'ruby' ? and when the thing didnt scale according to their own size, they started experiencing problems ? now he is expecting us to get into that new 'buzz' -> internet is built wrong, it should be 'content centric' - whatever the f@ck that is.
he is just another of the buzzword crowd. just ignore him and youll be alright.
books written 50 years ago and already made millions for their writer's grandsons should not be still being used as cow cashes, instead should join the public domain to the common heritage of human civilization.
first, if i took three days' time off, i can create a wikipedia article blaming greeks for the destruction of atlantis. given enough lobbying cash, i can get a resolution condemning greece for the destruction of atlantis passed from u.s. congress.
second, its absolutely stupid to give any wikipedia article as a proof to anything. doing so in any serious online discussion ends the debate's respectfulness. you have done as such.
third, i cant spare any time for you. i advise you find yourself a nationalist to clash your shit with. this is the last reply you will get from me on this subject. have a nice day.
you behave much like a turkish nationalist. im not taking crap from nationalists here, and im not gonna endure crap from a greek nationalist in america either. if you want to bicker in that respect, go find yourself a nationalist of your understanding.
its appalling that you show/. moderation as an indicator of rightfulness or wrongdoing.
50s pogroms is an abomination greek diaspora invented and exaggerated. yes, there had been burnings of shops belonging to greeks, there has been assaults, beatings, but nothing like 'genocide' or anything. god forbid. can you imagine, something that is to reduce the number of an ethnicity from 100.000 to a few thousand will happen around 1950 in a major city in the world, and the world wouldnt be echoing the ensuing stampede ?
the number of greeks that were 100.000 reduced to a few thousand in the 1930s exchange that was agreed in between greece and turkey. a lot of greeks left turkey, and a lot of turks from greece came to turkey.
Don't you read, man? There are tons of fine details, credible and verifiable sources that lend far more credibility to the fact that it happened, than your puny excuse for a history lesson you shared with us, however inspiring it may be. Pretty much all evidence points to the fact that a genocide did happen, exact numbers and places varying. Armenian nation counted for around two million by 1915 already, scattered across within the borders of the Ottoman Empire, all the way to the west. There are countless more details, but you seem to be reading all the wrong articles. And it is not only Armenian diaspora doing the research, also Russian, French and English researchers doing their job. Even now the facts continue to unravel, and it sucks more and more to deny it. We can dispute what, were and how much happened, but hundreds of thousands of hungry Armenians forced to march deliberately without food and water into Syrian deserts did die.
Extreme or no extreme, Hrant Dink or no Hrant Dink. Peace.
your first sentence is extremely contradictory.
let's see :
armenian population scattered accross ottoman empire in numbers that is 2 million is correct. there were armenians living even in palestine by then, as well as bulgaria, and thrace, izmir.
EASTERN ANATOLIAN armenian population being 2 million, is IMPOSSIBLE. at least in the universe we are living in. that area didnt boast that much population even until modern times even.
in NO place of the empire armenians died for ANY reason. the only armenians who died were in eastern anatolia, and that was in that long forced march.
i said it, and i repeat, ethnicities in ottoman empire were tasked with trade. THEY WERE RICH. at the time of the forced march in east, there were a lot of rich armenian businessmen, and even high level government bureaucrats, and even ministers of high ranking of armenian descent in istanbul. a lot of those rich armenian bussinessmen's lineage came until today undisrupted. actually many minorities who held many properties and riches in istanbul back in those days STILL hold the same properties (values of which are beyond the roof today by the way), and a noticeable number of big corporations of turkey belong to jews, armenians or greeks even today.
And it is not only Armenian diaspora doing the research, also Russian, French and English researchers doing their job. Even now the facts continue to unravel, and it sucks more and more to deny it.
look at what you are saying here. they are people STILL alive in eastern anatolia who lived those times, (although their numbers are dwindling now), their accounts, memoirs written in contemporary times, even the armenian community in turkey objects it, and you talk about armenian diaspora. you talk about french, russian, english researchers.
it seems to be a problem of the diaspora armenians, rather than armenians. you are obsessed with it.
as for the forced march, it happened. and it can happen even today, anywhere, in any country. united states itself interned its OWN citizens of japanese descent in concentration camps in world war 2. what would happen if u.s. was a poor country ? do you think that people in those camps would be fed still ? examples are endless.
you gotta try to be objective. research stuff at their core, and in their roots, and in many objective resources, rather than the sources that yank the most.
i have been insulting turkishness like there is no tomorrow all around the internet for the last 10 years, and even in turkish language forums hosted in turkey and nobody came arrested me yet. and when i speak, i speak very irritatingly.
Paper can be used to spread extremist ideals in the form of bundles put into casings. They call this instrument 'book'. potentially a very dangerous apparatus, its implementations are practically unlimited...
he summarized the issue correctly, but have portrayed as if the military was getting a dictator's role like as in the south american banana republics.
military stays silent at the wake almost everything. yet, IF a situation that may develop to push the country to a theocracy occurs, it starts to intervene. if situation is averted, it falls silent.
basically turkish army performs the function m.kemal and the first turkish assembly assigned it through initial laws in 1920s.
by then there was also risk of islamists rising to power, also there had been large scale islamist riots, and the new republic and army dealt with those riots.
seeing that turkey is bordering middle east and islamist influence will always be very high, the first assembly arranged for laws to ensure the country stays a republic. and there was no other means than the army to effect it. and so it went, successfully until these days. but now the eu, in all its naivete, is totally betraying its own western, modern ideals by supporting the islamist government and trying to curb turkish army. result wont be good. it wont be european or it wont be democratic.
it took 200 years for french revolutionary idealists in turkey to make a revolution and make turkey a democratic republic. european union is, like an idiot, totally reversing that modernization by staunchly supporting an islamist government that is islamicizing turkey.
unbelievable. democracy doesnt 'just' happen. it needs to be guarded against totalitarianism. eu thinks that if you make turkey into a legal environment like belgium, it will just become a western country.
european countries are themselves puzzled how to deal with rising islamism in their own lands. and these are 1-2 million people in 60 million. in turkey there are 20 million islamists in 60 million population.
islam is not a religion as of today. its a form of government and social life. its not like christianity or buddhism or shintoism or paganism. it IS a different form of social format. it doesnt allow any other social structures to exist next to itself.
next time you are posting, grow some balls to post with your own identity, and with your own account you little racist. this turkish 'fascist' here has the balls to post with his own identity, whereas a 'liberal' democrat like you does not.
i have to quote the same post i replied to another person. this is really stupid, you people are ranting the same song that paid armenian lobby in united states sings, even though armenian community in turkey thinks otherwise:
otherwise would mean that you are either full of shit, or dont know zit about what you are talking.
entire armenia, until persian lands were under turkish control by that time. and leave aside armenians in general, the population of eastern anatolia and caucasian region wasnt even a number that could be counted by millions.
that being said, you have to really read and do research on anatolian history, for you dont know shit.
highway banditry (in a fashion of robin hood, but not that romantic and beneficial) was a way of life in anatolia since 1500s. wanted to make an easy living ? why, just become a highwayman. easy life easy gain.
a lot of ethnicities, regardless of their nationality have taken to that kind of living.
this hase taken a whole new meaning in 19th century with the advent of nationalism. now, highwaymen had an excuse -> whereas in earlier centuries it was taken as something despicable by societies of all kinds, now you had the nationalism excuse -> whatever you do , you are doing it for your nation ! easy prey -> just go prey on ethnicities other than yours, and you are both free in conscience and your ethnicity can still approve you.
this has occurred in places ranging from croatia to armenia. all ethnicities had set up 'militias', all of which nothing more than highwaymen with a few exceptions. greeks slaughtered 30 k turks in athens during independence, then slaughtered countless bulgarians, serbs in the north. bulgarians and serbs did likewise to each other. turks also set up their own militia and slaughtered whatever ethnicity they were in feud with. WHOLE empire was in that state.
enter ww I and east anatolia. of the countless militias formed by armenians, kurds, turks, cerkez, arabs, kazzaks (name your pick here its countless), armenians were a more ruthless bunch, slaughtering even their own people if they didnt support them. when things got out of hand nationalist government of ottoman empire of the time decided to force a migration, so that the support for these militia would end. what they didnt calculate was the poorness of the region at that time. people had no clothes, no supplies, a lot of them died in the march.
but they were no exception. due to the same poverty, a turkish army of 30.000 strong has frozen to death in the same manner just in the same region 1 year ago.
poverty was the reality in eastern anatolia those days, and and the reality of the empire. only the people in istanbul and izmir were rather well off.
and, what is more surprising is that, of the well off people, there were quite a percentage that was armenian, greek, jew and other ethnicities in istanbul. that was the case because ottoman empire had laws that relegated certain trades and industries to minorities, as a tradition (That comes back from 1500s). therefore those people were exceedingly rich, living in mansions facing the straits.
IF there was ANY genocide, those armenians should be the ones who were to be slaughtered first. but nothing happened. despite there was NOTHING in those days to prevent the empire from slaughtering any kind of ethnicity in the country. armenians in the west kept living in luxury whereas poor armenians in the east died in the march out of poverty.
see, unfortunately youre full of shit that armenian lobby in west have spewed. although im not a nationalist, and generally annoyed by nationalists, i had to correct this and set the record straight. for your information, even armenian community in turkey finds what armenian lobby in west, especially u.s. is saying extreme and untruthful. that was why international armenian lobby has crucified hrant dink, because he said that they were too extreme.
have you EVER seen what is life like in islamist regions of turkey ? ha ? apparently you havent. if you did, you wouldnt be speaking about religious freedom not being present in turkey. also you would know what is oppression -> suppression of religion, or the harassment religion does to people.
i'd rather live in a military dictatorship any day, if i was to choose in between an islamist country or military dictatorship. not that there is any kind of military dictatorship in turkey tho.
you stupid piece of shit. if it wasnt for that military, europe would have an iran ten times worse than iran right under its nose. pray that that military exists and prevents islamicization of the country.
your ignorance is appalling btw. dont talk about other countries without knowing shit about them first. i learnt about st barthelemy's night so that i would be more authorized to talk about france for example. either spend similar effort, or shut the fuck up.
military has never been dictatorial in turkey. in ALL the coups that have taken place in the last 40 years, military have acted to prevent country from going to an islamist or totalitarian dictatorship.
first major coup was in 1960, against adnan menderes (who is, curiously and coincidentally, the first islamist leaning leader in turkish republic's history - the current islamist party comes from his party's roots). adnan menderes had increasingly become dictatorial in the late years of his reign -> he first censored all opposing papers, and then shut them down. then he shut down the opposition party. then his party moved to create a party organization called 'vatan cephesi' (motherland front) that you had to join. even so, they were naming people out of census registry in the radios each night, saying that these people joined the motherland front. situation was going out of hand. so, military intervened, and hanged the 3 political leaders of that party. that has set an example for all extremists in turkey -> they havent been able to find the courage to radically change the secular modern republic for 20 years.
in 1980, things were out of hand again. extremism was abound, and extreme right and left organizations were killing each other, bystanders, anyone daily. the daily average death toll in the country was 200. yea, you heard that right, 200 people a day.
politicians of the time were doing NOTHING. just bickering. a moderate party, an islamist party, a nationalist party, and a social democrat party. all bickering and nothing.
things were going this way for the last 5 years. and military was warning about deteriorating security situation within the country for those last 5 years.
all political leaders of that time were saying was 'it will be democratically solved, democracy is strong blah this bleh that'.
nothing happened. they did nothing.
and when in 1980, a huge throng of islamists have sat down during the national anthem and booed the national anthem in konya in 1980, declaring that they wanted an iranian style islamist government, within 2-3 weeks' time military had taken control of the country and locked up the extremist leaders, and put an interim government and called a group of experts to prepare a new constitution to prevent extremism from being able to change anything.
1982 constituton was put to vote of the people. people were SO fed up with extremism and the chaos environment that it got a whopping 80% approval rate and was ratified. this is the constitution we have today, and this is the constitution that islamist party is trying to change so they can move ahead with islamist proceedings.
just 1 years later, in 1983, elections were held and a technocrat, turgut ozal, a western style free market evangelist was elected with a whopping vote total. and he furthered the country until islamist elements got rise again.
so today here we are. the islamist party is trying to get rid of the elements in constitution that prevent them from establishing islamist and pro-religion laws, saying that 'it is the will of the people' (only 38% first election, only 42% last, a lot of reactionary votes and a lot of election fraud).
what is stupefying is that, european union SUPPORTS them. they are in the delusion that, if you let everything be in turkey, it will just become a country like belgium. but the last 40 years' history of turkey says otherwise.
the going is not good. it is a cosmic joke that european union is supporting and harboring a party that wants to break turkey from all modern values and enlightenment ideals. leave aside being contradictory, its self damaging.
Slashdot Mirror
A lot of prominent organizations on the internet are somehow posting in /., clearing doubts about the stuff they do - either openly, like some, or anonymously, like some others.
i wouldnt even want to think that ibm thinks they are above us. im looking forward to someone explaining the bullshit going on with those patents either openly, or anonymously here.
Obviously not, it can't even run the postal service.
thats your problem in u.s. you people are bent on scuttling all kind of public services that you are not even letting your own government run its own postal service.
all kinds of services and then some more work perfectly in europe, and on top of it a FAIR free market exists too.
establish relevance in between what i said and what you replied.
our social rules and laws and codes of contact are preventing the existing frustration and angst of modern people with the way we live these days to come out in the open in society.
instead, it lets itself out in places like internet.
it is absolutely stupid, a total moron's idea to ever think that by preventing the anger from coming out, you can do away with the issue. regardless of it being on the net, or not.
the anger is there. its there becauee modern society become too much hassle to live in. people are living distanced from other people emotionally, in all fast paced, work hard and get less lives.
what would you expect ? roses coming up everywhere ? its just natural.
again we see french headstrongness, stubbornness and self centric behaviour.
for decades they have been trying to force their views on eu, hell, even the world. even french language. so far, not only they failed, but also alienated other nations to themselves. just imagine - they left nato's military wing decades ago, only to return to the military wing recently. what happened ? did nato flounder without them ? no. just they lost credibility.
excuse me 'mon frere's, but you have to wake up and be a team player.
Licensing is not free market. licensing doesnt bolster competition. it creates a limited monopoly for those corporations who were able to buy those licenses.
imagine roads were privatized. imagine 10 companies bought roads, and used them as they wished, and charged anyone using them anything they wished.
do you think we would be in the level we are today as a civilization ?
we wouldnt.
there are some things, venues that need to be open to everyone, for anything, SO THAT competition, free market CAN happen.
FCC should vote totally in favor of this free spectrum. its necessary for betterment of mankind, leave aside internet access in a few locales.
and get me my thick stick. ill talk to them in a language they can understand
http://your-freedom.net/
the fact that it is put in a funny way doesnt obscure the truth lies within it. please arrange its moderation accordingly.
you can put C++ on assembler and run a webserver with it, you can run a C++ coded compiler (PHP) run through that C++ on assembler, but if you keep on putting sh@t on sh@t like putting grouped functions of C++ coded compiler (PHP) on top of a webserver that is coded with C++ on assembler, you will INEVITABLY get scaling issues. there is a limit of higher level you can do to do stuff. and tradeoff in between ease of development and the capability of the environment.
probably any future sh@t on more sh@t stuff (even higher level stuff), leave aside ruby, will experience same scaling issues.
aaaaaah wasnt he one of the people that jumped on another buzz, 'ruby' ? and when the thing didnt scale according to their own size, they started experiencing problems ? now he is expecting us to get into that new 'buzz' -> internet is built wrong, it should be 'content centric' - whatever the f@ck that is.
he is just another of the buzzword crowd. just ignore him and youll be alright.
books written 50 years ago and already made millions for their writer's grandsons should not be still being used as cow cashes, instead should join the public domain to the common heritage of human civilization.
first, if i took three days' time off, i can create a wikipedia article blaming greeks for the destruction of atlantis. given enough lobbying cash, i can get a resolution condemning greece for the destruction of atlantis passed from u.s. congress.
second, its absolutely stupid to give any wikipedia article as a proof to anything. doing so in any serious online discussion ends the debate's respectfulness. you have done as such.
third, i cant spare any time for you. i advise you find yourself a nationalist to clash your shit with. this is the last reply you will get from me on this subject. have a nice day.
is it. so you made yourself known.
/. moderation as an indicator of rightfulness or wrongdoing.
you behave much like a turkish nationalist. im not taking crap from nationalists here, and im not gonna endure crap from a greek nationalist in america either. if you want to bicker in that respect, go find yourself a nationalist of your understanding.
its appalling that you show
50s pogroms is an abomination greek diaspora invented and exaggerated. yes, there had been burnings of shops belonging to greeks, there has been assaults, beatings, but nothing like 'genocide' or anything. god forbid. can you imagine, something that is to reduce the number of an ethnicity from 100.000 to a few thousand will happen around 1950 in a major city in the world, and the world wouldnt be echoing the ensuing stampede ?
the number of greeks that were 100.000 reduced to a few thousand in the 1930s exchange that was agreed in between greece and turkey. a lot of greeks left turkey, and a lot of turks from greece came to turkey.
well. eu doesnt know what they are doing to be honest. they believe anything that is told by minority groups living in eu. reality doesnt matter much.
Don't you read, man? There are tons of fine details, credible and verifiable sources that lend far more credibility to the fact that it happened, than your puny excuse for a history lesson you shared with us, however inspiring it may be. Pretty much all evidence points to the fact that a genocide did happen, exact numbers and places varying. Armenian nation counted for around two million by 1915 already, scattered across within the borders of the Ottoman Empire, all the way to the west. There are countless more details, but you seem to be reading all the wrong articles. And it is not only Armenian diaspora doing the research, also Russian, French and English researchers doing their job. Even now the facts continue to unravel, and it sucks more and more to deny it. We can dispute what, were and how much happened, but hundreds of thousands of hungry Armenians forced to march deliberately without food and water into Syrian deserts did die. Extreme or no extreme, Hrant Dink or no Hrant Dink. Peace.
your first sentence is extremely contradictory.
let's see :
armenian population scattered accross ottoman empire in numbers that is 2 million is correct. there were armenians living even in palestine by then, as well as bulgaria, and thrace, izmir.
EASTERN ANATOLIAN armenian population being 2 million, is IMPOSSIBLE. at least in the universe we are living in. that area didnt boast that much population even until modern times even.
in NO place of the empire armenians died for ANY reason. the only armenians who died were in eastern anatolia, and that was in that long forced march.
i said it, and i repeat, ethnicities in ottoman empire were tasked with trade. THEY WERE RICH. at the time of the forced march in east, there were a lot of rich armenian businessmen, and even high level government bureaucrats, and even ministers of high ranking of armenian descent in istanbul. a lot of those rich armenian bussinessmen's lineage came until today undisrupted. actually many minorities who held many properties and riches in istanbul back in those days STILL hold the same properties (values of which are beyond the roof today by the way), and a noticeable number of big corporations of turkey belong to jews, armenians or greeks even today.
And it is not only Armenian diaspora doing the research, also Russian, French and English researchers doing their job. Even now the facts continue to unravel, and it sucks more and more to deny it.
look at what you are saying here. they are people STILL alive in eastern anatolia who lived those times, (although their numbers are dwindling now), their accounts, memoirs written in contemporary times, even the armenian community in turkey objects it, and you talk about armenian diaspora. you talk about french, russian, english researchers.
it seems to be a problem of the diaspora armenians, rather than armenians. you are obsessed with it.
as for the forced march, it happened. and it can happen even today, anywhere, in any country. united states itself interned its OWN citizens of japanese descent in concentration camps in world war 2. what would happen if u.s. was a poor country ? do you think that people in those camps would be fed still ? examples are endless.
you gotta try to be objective. research stuff at their core, and in their roots, and in many objective resources, rather than the sources that yank the most.
i have been insulting turkishness like there is no tomorrow all around the internet for the last 10 years, and even in turkish language forums hosted in turkey and nobody came arrested me yet. and when i speak, i speak very irritatingly.
Paper can be used to spread extremist ideals in the form of bundles put into casings. They call this instrument 'book'. potentially a very dangerous apparatus, its implementations are practically unlimited ...
it wasnt at a crucial point.
he summarized the issue correctly, but have portrayed as if the military was getting a dictator's role like as in the south american banana republics.
military stays silent at the wake almost everything. yet, IF a situation that may develop to push the country to a theocracy occurs, it starts to intervene. if situation is averted, it falls silent.
basically turkish army performs the function m.kemal and the first turkish assembly assigned it through initial laws in 1920s.
by then there was also risk of islamists rising to power, also there had been large scale islamist riots, and the new republic and army dealt with those riots.
seeing that turkey is bordering middle east and islamist influence will always be very high, the first assembly arranged for laws to ensure the country stays a republic. and there was no other means than the army to effect it. and so it went, successfully until these days. but now the eu, in all its naivete, is totally betraying its own western, modern ideals by supporting the islamist government and trying to curb turkish army. result wont be good. it wont be european or it wont be democratic.
it took 200 years for french revolutionary idealists in turkey to make a revolution and make turkey a democratic republic. european union is, like an idiot, totally reversing that modernization by staunchly supporting an islamist government that is islamicizing turkey.
unbelievable. democracy doesnt 'just' happen. it needs to be guarded against totalitarianism. eu thinks that if you make turkey into a legal environment like belgium, it will just become a western country.
european countries are themselves puzzled how to deal with rising islamism in their own lands. and these are 1-2 million people in 60 million. in turkey there are 20 million islamists in 60 million population.
islam is not a religion as of today. its a form of government and social life. its not like christianity or buddhism or shintoism or paganism. it IS a different form of social format. it doesnt allow any other social structures to exist next to itself.
things will end badly at this rate.
next time you are posting, grow some balls to post with your own identity, and with your own account you little racist. this turkish 'fascist' here has the balls to post with his own identity, whereas a 'liberal' democrat like you does not.
telling.
im talking in general. talking about recent governments of countries including australia, usa, germany, turkey and so on.
otherwise would mean that you are either full of shit, or dont know zit about what you are talking. entire armenia, until persian lands were under turkish control by that time. and leave aside armenians in general, the population of eastern anatolia and caucasian region wasnt even a number that could be counted by millions. that being said, you have to really read and do research on anatolian history, for you dont know shit. highway banditry (in a fashion of robin hood, but not that romantic and beneficial) was a way of life in anatolia since 1500s. wanted to make an easy living ? why, just become a highwayman. easy life easy gain. a lot of ethnicities, regardless of their nationality have taken to that kind of living. this hase taken a whole new meaning in 19th century with the advent of nationalism. now, highwaymen had an excuse -> whereas in earlier centuries it was taken as something despicable by societies of all kinds, now you had the nationalism excuse -> whatever you do , you are doing it for your nation ! easy prey -> just go prey on ethnicities other than yours, and you are both free in conscience and your ethnicity can still approve you. this has occurred in places ranging from croatia to armenia. all ethnicities had set up 'militias', all of which nothing more than highwaymen with a few exceptions. greeks slaughtered 30 k turks in athens during independence, then slaughtered countless bulgarians, serbs in the north. bulgarians and serbs did likewise to each other. turks also set up their own militia and slaughtered whatever ethnicity they were in feud with. WHOLE empire was in that state. enter ww I and east anatolia. of the countless militias formed by armenians, kurds, turks, cerkez, arabs, kazzaks (name your pick here its countless), armenians were a more ruthless bunch, slaughtering even their own people if they didnt support them. when things got out of hand nationalist government of ottoman empire of the time decided to force a migration, so that the support for these militia would end. what they didnt calculate was the poorness of the region at that time. people had no clothes, no supplies, a lot of them died in the march. but they were no exception. due to the same poverty, a turkish army of 30.000 strong has frozen to death in the same manner just in the same region 1 year ago. poverty was the reality in eastern anatolia those days, and and the reality of the empire. only the people in istanbul and izmir were rather well off. and, what is more surprising is that, of the well off people, there were quite a percentage that was armenian, greek, jew and other ethnicities in istanbul. that was the case because ottoman empire had laws that relegated certain trades and industries to minorities, as a tradition (That comes back from 1500s). therefore those people were exceedingly rich, living in mansions facing the straits. IF there was ANY genocide, those armenians should be the ones who were to be slaughtered first. but nothing happened. despite there was NOTHING in those days to prevent the empire from slaughtering any kind of ethnicity in the country. armenians in the west kept living in luxury whereas poor armenians in the east died in the march out of poverty. see, unfortunately youre full of shit that armenian lobby in west have spewed. although im not a nationalist, and generally annoyed by nationalists, i had to correct this and set the record straight. for your information, even armenian community in turkey finds what armenian lobby in west, especially u.s. is saying extreme and untruthful. that was why international armenian lobby has crucified hrant dink, because he said that they were too extreme.
have you EVER seen what is life like in islamist regions of turkey ? ha ? apparently you havent. if you did, you wouldnt be speaking about religious freedom not being present in turkey. also you would know what is oppression -> suppression of religion, or the harassment religion does to people.
i'd rather live in a military dictatorship any day, if i was to choose in between an islamist country or military dictatorship. not that there is any kind of military dictatorship in turkey tho.
you stupid piece of shit. if it wasnt for that military, europe would have an iran ten times worse than iran right under its nose. pray that that military exists and prevents islamicization of the country.
your ignorance is appalling btw. dont talk about other countries without knowing shit about them first. i learnt about st barthelemy's night so that i would be more authorized to talk about france for example. either spend similar effort, or shut the fuck up.
military has never been dictatorial in turkey. in ALL the coups that have taken place in the last 40 years, military have acted to prevent country from going to an islamist or totalitarian dictatorship.
first major coup was in 1960, against adnan menderes (who is, curiously and coincidentally, the first islamist leaning leader in turkish republic's history - the current islamist party comes from his party's roots). adnan menderes had increasingly become dictatorial in the late years of his reign -> he first censored all opposing papers, and then shut them down. then he shut down the opposition party. then his party moved to create a party organization called 'vatan cephesi' (motherland front) that you had to join. even so, they were naming people out of census registry in the radios each night, saying that these people joined the motherland front. situation was going out of hand. so, military intervened, and hanged the 3 political leaders of that party. that has set an example for all extremists in turkey -> they havent been able to find the courage to radically change the secular modern republic for 20 years.
in 1980, things were out of hand again. extremism was abound, and extreme right and left organizations were killing each other, bystanders, anyone daily. the daily average death toll in the country was 200. yea, you heard that right, 200 people a day.
politicians of the time were doing NOTHING. just bickering. a moderate party, an islamist party, a nationalist party, and a social democrat party. all bickering and nothing.
things were going this way for the last 5 years. and military was warning about deteriorating security situation within the country for those last 5 years.
all political leaders of that time were saying was 'it will be democratically solved, democracy is strong blah this bleh that'.
nothing happened. they did nothing.
and when in 1980, a huge throng of islamists have sat down during the national anthem and booed the national anthem in konya in 1980, declaring that they wanted an iranian style islamist government, within 2-3 weeks' time military had taken control of the country and locked up the extremist leaders, and put an interim government and called a group of experts to prepare a new constitution to prevent extremism from being able to change anything.
1982 constituton was put to vote of the people. people were SO fed up with extremism and the chaos environment that it got a whopping 80% approval rate and was ratified. this is the constitution we have today, and this is the constitution that islamist party is trying to change so they can move ahead with islamist proceedings.
just 1 years later, in 1983, elections were held and a technocrat, turgut ozal, a western style free market evangelist was elected with a whopping vote total. and he furthered the country until islamist elements got rise again.
so today here we are. the islamist party is trying to get rid of the elements in constitution that prevent them from establishing islamist and pro-religion laws, saying that 'it is the will of the people' (only 38% first election, only 42% last, a lot of reactionary votes and a lot of election fraud).
what is stupefying is that, european union SUPPORTS them. they are in the delusion that, if you let everything be in turkey, it will just become a country like belgium. but the last 40 years' history of turkey says otherwise.
the going is not good. it is a cosmic joke that european union is supporting and harboring a party that wants to break turkey from all modern values and enlightenment ideals. leave aside being contradictory, its self damaging.