exactly. let's not get up on our moral high horse here. We americans still live in a country where all our phone calls and internet traffic are monitored.
Oh calm down. The penalties for contempt are typically just a talking-to and a slap on the wrist. I'm not aware of any pattern of abuse, either current or historical. If you are, please share with the class.
I agree, but then Idea has the luxury of being Java-only. And it scales worse than VS does - truly large projects make it unusable. But I love me some Idea. Saves me probably an hour a day, every day.
> Where are the C++ refactorings? I must have missed them.
Are there any IDEs that offer nontrivial c++ refactorings?
> And intellisense doesn't work most of the time.[...] Visual decide to do it at any random time and becomes unavailable for a few minutes when it does it
You're so far off from my experience and the experience of everyone I know that I don't know what to say. It's like you're talking about a completely different application.
> Seriously, one day I'll have to capture a video of one of my working session with that thing. But then again, people like you will explain me that whatever happens is somehow my fault.
Probably. Because I think I've seen VS7 crash maybe twice. And because all of my coworkers and pretty much everyone I talk to online, from total linux nerd to VB hackers, all agree that whatever MS's other failings, VS7 is pretty sweet. Given that, yeah, I would say that whatever problems VS7 is causing you are probably your fault - because no one else seems to be having these problems.
> 7 was good for a lot of things, but you could already feel the performance starting going down the drain. Nothing critical yet, but there's clearly an architectural change that wasn't that good happening from 6 to 7.
Well, yeah, 7 needs more CPU than 6. But they're separated by... what? 5 years? And it does far more than 6 ever did. This is to be expected.
> Then comes 2005. As far as C++ is concerned, it brought basically two things: improving the data breakpoint stuff so that you don't have to bypass their context thingy that never seemes to work and just write "*(long*)0xADDR", and displaying the contents of stl containers.
Oh jeez. It brought so much more than that I don't even know where to start. Reasonable STL support would be a good start, I guess.
> Scalability-wise, it sucks. Have you ever used it with a solution containing several dozen of projects and thousand of files?
Yes. The last time I used VS7 was for with an sln with aroudn 20 projects and many thousands of files. By the time you have projects large enough to start choking VS, most of your other IDEs will have choked as well, unless they don't support the inspection necessary to support things like intellisense or refactorings.
> Which IDEs have you used on a day to day basis except visual?
Idea mostly, Eclipse for the oddball languages that no one writes an IDE for. I used KDevelop for a while, and Kylix a while back.
As for your assessment of VS, I think you're loopy, especially the comment about going downhill since 5 - that's just crazy. 5 was a complete crapfest. Even the hardcore linux nerds I know admit that VS7 is very good at what it does.
> Just goes to show the culture of mediocrity that symbolize the Microsoft era of computer science.
You forgot to use a '$' instead of the 's' in microsoft. You might also want to look into replacing the 'c' with three 'k's.
If you're just one of those guys who hates IDEs, ok, fine, whatever. Otherwise, I'm interested in hearing what IDEs you feel are better than VS, which must surely be a very long list due to just how badly VS sucks, right?
Are you serious? Visual Studio is right at the top, as far as IDEs go. It's got it's warts just like everything else (Why is the goddamn configuration dialog not resizeable?!? arrgh) but overall it's very well-polished.
If they were even half as secure as ATMs I think we'd all have far, far fewer problems. I don't think you've been paying much attention to the diebold articles around here lately.
Apple, who produced one of the most talked-about piece of consumer electronics in the last 10 years, gets ready to combine it with a phone, probably THE most talked-about piece of consumer electronics in the past 10 years.
just after they'd changed the name from the awful "Avalon" to the much more memorable "Windows Presentation Foundation," I saw a demo of this stuff from a MS evangelist. The demo application was awful. Gratuitous use of 3D, buttons that were unrecognizable as such and which would flip up into the 'air' playing a movie when you pressed them.
I understand that it was just a demo and these things weren't really 'gratuitous' because they existed simply to show off the capabilities. But the bottom line is that it's so super-easy to make these awful UI abortions that we're gonna see metric asstons of it coming down the pipe from programmers and their bosses who are unable to resist cramming every last widget behavior into their software. Feh.
> If everybody thought that way, the political spectrum would mostly collapse to a point.
It all rests on your shithead threshold. I restrict this behavior to people who both propound beliefs so monumentally beef-brained as to be below a certain threshold (ie, prohibit immigration to preserve the vital "american" gene pool) and who hold no power over anything of interest.
Slashdot Mirror
> there is no complete freedom of speech without the ability to be anonymous at times.
I think you mean "there is no complete freedom from the repercussions of your speech without the ability to be anonymous at times."
exactly. let's not get up on our moral high horse here. We americans still live in a country where all our phone calls and internet traffic are monitored.
They already make a refactoring plugin for VS C#, so I'm pullin' for a C# Idea.
Idea -is- actually a very good javascript editor tho, just fyi. Kind of overkill, but I'm used to the keybindings.
Oh calm down. The penalties for contempt are typically just a talking-to and a slap on the wrist. I'm not aware of any pattern of abuse, either current or historical. If you are, please share with the class.
> Idea is even better
I agree, but then Idea has the luxury of being Java-only. And it scales worse than VS does - truly large projects make it unusable. But I love me some Idea. Saves me probably an hour a day, every day.
> Where are the C++ refactorings? I must have missed them.
Are there any IDEs that offer nontrivial c++ refactorings?
> And intellisense doesn't work most of the time.[...] Visual decide to do it at any random time and becomes unavailable for a few minutes when it does it
You're so far off from my experience and the experience of everyone I know that I don't know what to say. It's like you're talking about a completely different application.
> Seriously, one day I'll have to capture a video of one of my working session with that thing. But then again, people like you will explain me that whatever happens is somehow my fault.
Probably. Because I think I've seen VS7 crash maybe twice. And because all of my coworkers and pretty much everyone I talk to online, from total linux nerd to VB hackers, all agree that whatever MS's other failings, VS7 is pretty sweet. Given that, yeah, I would say that whatever problems VS7 is causing you are probably your fault - because no one else seems to be having these problems.
> 7 was good for a lot of things, but you could already feel the performance starting going down the drain. Nothing critical yet, but there's clearly an architectural change that wasn't that good happening from 6 to 7.
... what? 5 years? And it does far more than 6 ever did. This is to be expected.
Well, yeah, 7 needs more CPU than 6. But they're separated by
> Then comes 2005. As far as C++ is concerned, it brought basically two things: improving the data breakpoint stuff so that you don't have to bypass their context thingy that never seemes to work and just write "*(long*)0xADDR", and displaying the contents of stl containers.
Oh jeez. It brought so much more than that I don't even know where to start. Reasonable STL support would be a good start, I guess.
> Scalability-wise, it sucks. Have you ever used it with a solution containing several dozen of projects and thousand of files?
Yes. The last time I used VS7 was for with an sln with aroudn 20 projects and many thousands of files. By the time you have projects large enough to start choking VS, most of your other IDEs will have choked as well, unless they don't support the inspection necessary to support things like intellisense or refactorings.
Oh, I see. I said:
> Great. How does that help me with older java apps that require 1.4?
when I should have said
> Great. How does that help me run java 1.5 apps on OS 10.3?
Sorry, I seem to have gotten a little confused there.
> Which IDEs have you used on a day to day basis except visual?
Idea mostly, Eclipse for the oddball languages that no one writes an IDE for. I used KDevelop for a while, and Kylix a while back.
As for your assessment of VS, I think you're loopy, especially the comment about going downhill since 5 - that's just crazy. 5 was a complete crapfest. Even the hardcore linux nerds I know admit that VS7 is very good at what it does.
> Happy?
No, because my problem was that I need to run 1.5 apps on OS 10.3, not that I needed to run 1.4 apps under a 1.5 JVM.
> Just goes to show the culture of mediocrity that symbolize the Microsoft era of computer science.
You forgot to use a '$' instead of the 's' in microsoft. You might also want to look into replacing the 'c' with three 'k's.
If you're just one of those guys who hates IDEs, ok, fine, whatever. Otherwise, I'm interested in hearing what IDEs you feel are better than VS, which must surely be a very long list due to just how badly VS sucks, right?
> Last time i check "Apple" was readying the Java 6
.Net page in apple.com or a mention of a moron who run windows in apple to develop software.
.net.
Great. How does that help me with older java apps that require 1.4?
> i don't remember seeing a
That is a complete nonsequiter. I was talking about Java, not
> Java is first class citizen for Apple
Sure it is. Unless you want to run 1.5 on 10.3, in which case you're SOL.
'first class citizen' my butt.
I have to agree. I found the article interesting. Not sure why why the slashdot hive-mind has taken such an instant dislike to it.
> And this is different from visual .net 2005 how?
Are you serious? Visual Studio is right at the top, as far as IDEs go. It's got it's warts just like everything else (Why is the goddamn configuration dialog not resizeable?!? arrgh) but overall it's very well-polished.
If they were even half as secure as ATMs I think we'd all have far, far fewer problems. I don't think you've been paying much attention to the diebold articles around here lately.
The tagging system is a joke. 90% of all tags are either words in the article title, or one or more of "fud, notfud, yes, no, maybe."
And fix the root of the copyright problem.
I haven't worked with it, unfortunately, but I'd have to agree. The idea behind XAML is really neat.
That is exactly what I told people afterward, almost verbatim. Because that's exactly what it looked like.
> The phone has been talked about (but mainly talked to ) for well over a hundred years.
uh, sorry, I meant cell phone.
Apple, who produced one of the most talked-about piece of consumer electronics in the last 10 years, gets ready to combine it with a phone, probably THE most talked-about piece of consumer electronics in the past 10 years.
Why would anyone care?
just after they'd changed the name from the awful "Avalon" to the much more memorable "Windows Presentation Foundation," I saw a demo of this stuff from a MS evangelist. The demo application was awful. Gratuitous use of 3D, buttons that were unrecognizable as such and which would flip up into the 'air' playing a movie when you pressed them.
I understand that it was just a demo and these things weren't really 'gratuitous' because they existed simply to show off the capabilities. But the bottom line is that it's so super-easy to make these awful UI abortions that we're gonna see metric asstons of it coming down the pipe from programmers and their bosses who are unable to resist cramming every last widget behavior into their software. Feh.
> If everybody thought that way, the political spectrum would mostly collapse to a point.
It all rests on your shithead threshold. I restrict this behavior to people who both propound beliefs so monumentally beef-brained as to be below a certain threshold (ie, prohibit immigration to preserve the vital "american" gene pool) and who hold no power over anything of interest.