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What If Apple Made A Cell Phone And No One Cared?
PreacherTom writes "Prudential Equity Group analyst Jesse Tortora penned a note saying that Apple is readying a music phone — and a separate, combination video and music phone. He expects Apple to introduce the devices in January at Macworld, a conference for Mac enthusiasts where the company typically debuts new products. At least one of the phones will offer Wi-Fi connectivity and both will become available in the March quarter of 2007 ... but will anyone care?"
Yes. People will care.
Next?
I detect no bias in the above submission, none.
www.GrenadeHop.com
Wi-fi. More space than a Blackberry. Still lame.
My amazing wife - Artist, Author, Philosopher - Laurie M
I don't really care about iPods, but that doesn't sound bad at all. Innovative, no - but maybe it will be competitive or slightly better than other products. Why such the negative attitude?
why would a title of an article be a rhetorical question with the answer as part of the question?
anyone want to buy a slightly used apple newton?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
If you build it, they will come. If it's white - shiny metal, or has a click wheel, the people will buy it for the cool-factor alone. As long as they don't break quickly, and they can fit them to play MP3s, and add maybe one or two features like a laser pointer, or built in toothbrush, the cell phone market will never be the same.
Oh You POS
Excuse me, Mr. Analyst, but I suspect you're underestimating Apple.
I think if Apple actually has something in that line coming out it'll surprise you. Yet another music phone isn't radical enough for Steve Jobs, battery life or whatever aside, besides, the ROKR was ho-hum which should say something about what people really want. I wouldn't be suprised to see something clever like combination unit, which merges a cell phone with an iPod, either could be used independently, probably partnering with someone like Motorola to make the phone part to spread the risk (assuming Motorola is willing to give it another shot.) Perhaps it'll also do VoIP in some clever way. Preemptively dropping Apple's shares on such speculation seems a bit rash.
In any event, the iPod is getting on in years, celebrating it's 5th birthday, still going strong, but always needs some little tweak (like the slim and tiny nano) to keep in interesting and trendy. I agree with the analysts regarding an integrated unit with battery concerns and such, since most people do keep a separate mp3 player even when their phone will play tunes. I've got a phone which will play music, but I'd rather not be having to recharge my battery every day. The most likely place for me to listen to tunes is in the vehicle and it'll have a CD/sat. radio with USB to handle that. Taking on a commodity market would be fitting oneself for an albatross.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Microsoft released a portable, handheld Myspace, but did anyone care?
Actually, according to some people, it hasn't been decided yet.
Viable Slashdot alternatives: https://pipedot.org/ and http://soylentnews.org/
Apple, who produced one of the most talked-about piece of consumer electronics in the last 10 years, gets ready to combine it with a phone, probably THE most talked-about piece of consumer electronics in the past 10 years.
Why would anyone care?
there is no need to sign your posts. this isn't usenet. your username is right there above your post. stop it.
Even if the phone is no hit with consumers tech journalists and analysts will still care. Who would ever want to waste an opportunity to crow about Apple's failures?
Well, now that we've established that this guy knows what he's talking about...
Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
Jesse Tortora
who?
The fact that a story was written about it asking if anyone would care PROVES that someone would care; otherwise we wouldn't bother reading a story about something no one cared about.
Duh.
Click on those ads, people. Cuz that's the only reason this story was even published.
An iPod that is a phone *will* get attention.
You post a story and noone cares?
Microsoft might. I think a smart strategy for Apple would be to rumor technology they know is a bad idea then watch Microsoft spend billions to play catch up with nonexistent products. It's kind of how Reagan collapsed the Soviet Union.
They already forced ITunes into my razr.... why bother with making their own phone. It's not like its going to be revolutionary like the ipod... i think Lisa will agree
Help test the
What would be neat is if the extended features like playing music, using cameras, etc., could all draw their power off of a separate battery than the phone. That way you could use as much of the extra features without worrying about killing the phone itself. Naturally during the "recharge" process both batteries would be rejuvinated.
It's true no man is an island, but if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, they make a good raft.
I'm sorry, but what has happened to Slashdot? I've been here since nearly the beginning, and I've noticed a sharp decline in the quality of the submissions, but quite the opposite trend in VOLUME of them. I used to regularly read stimulating, interesting stories from all over geekdom, and now sometimes I feel like any story that sounds remotely tabloid-worthy -- as long as it has the word 'Game,' 'Microsoft,' or 'Apple,' in the title -- makes it right up front.
Obviously this is not worth reading.
Juicy
-- Eli Juicy Jones
Cell phone users are hopeless. Of course they'll care.
Furthermore, you can bet that Apple will get it right where others like Sprint couldn't.
Personally, I just hope you can use that iPod circular input as a rotary dial!
Analysts fail to realize the Apple puts a tremendous amount of thought into their designs. The author cites a statistic that most people with MP3 players also have music-capable phones, but doesn't mention that none of those music phones have the Scroll Wheel. That is what makes the iPod, not the iTMS, iTunes or the stylish design...the scroll wheel is the reason why the iPod is a success. The iPhone will have one as well. "Limited appeal" my ass; The author obviously doesn't understand the appeal of current Apple products, otherwise he wouldn't be questioning their move into the handset market. This is going to be an exciting year if Apple realizes the iPhone; the average iPod owner recognizes Apple's ingenious user interface and mobile phones' general lack of one.
It doesn't matter how wonderful the phone is.
If Apple lets Verizon Wireless (my CSP) or Cingular cripple it (and that's about the only way the Cellular Service Providers will sell it) then it will be just as useless as every other phone out there.
And so, I won't care.
Lots of phones out there that have great specs as announced by the manufactures. And then the phone is crippled in software by the cell service companies, and it's a piece of trash that no one wants. Or, you can buy the uncrippled version for $499 (still with a 2-year contract).
I don't think even Steve Jobs could convince Verizon not to cripple a phone so that it will only accept music through the Verizon cellular data network. Because a phone that isn't so crippled won't need an over-priced data plan, and will lose Verizon profits that they are convinced they deserve.
Sorry, no.
Part of the joy of Apple products that the they control the entire experience. Part of that is that (with some notable exceptions) ongoing costs and hassles are minimized. I have an iPod. I love it. It works great with the iTunes Music Store. You don't *have* to use the iTMS, though. You won't have that option with a Verizon-crippled cellphone.
This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is... Oops. Frank, I've got your sig again! Where's mine?
I bet people would care if they could make a cell phone at a decent price.
Cell phones these days are absolutely locked down by high prices. If Apple could make a phone with a good design, good specs, etc, that would beat the prices on those other phones..they might have something there.
I don't look forward to paying $200 to replace my three-year-old-phone with the exact same model because the prices are just going up.
They're so cheap so the phone company can offer them for free, but god forbid you buy one with no 'deal'.
Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
I've been holding off on a phone purchase in anticipation of an Apple phone. Why? Because I know they will nail the human interface and Mac integration. I wouldn't be surprised if they manage to get the phone size way down and do something clever about input as well. The Nokia Series 60 phones are pretty good and are the only other alternative for me, but we only get the E62 here in the US. If, for some reason, Apple disappoints, that will be the route I take.
God damn it, why are people so obsessed with the idea of Apple making a phone? IT. MAKES. NO. SENSE! There's no point to it whatsoever! Apple does not have a history with telephony. I could see a rebirth of the Newton platform, and I could even see THAT platform being used as the basis for a new series of PDA phones to compete with WinCE devices, but an actual Apple-branded phone?
WHY? Can someone just explain WHY Apple would get into such a mercurial market?
If I can wear it on my wrist and look at it to see what time it is, and the sound is as good as my JBL studio monitors, and it can keep a call going over my entire commute past mysterious giant golf balls and a VOR, and it's free with unlimited minutes and no roaming charges. I might want it.
Oracle and unix guy.
No Newton user would sell their Newton.
[UID-HeinzIntel]
Because if Apple makes it then people will actually be able to figure out how to use the stupid thing. Every non-techie person I know uses their phone for making calls and maybe as an alarm clock. Phone user interfaces are so horrible that even the more technically inclined usually have to work at making them, well, work as designed.
With regards to people worrying about Cingular, Verizon, etc. crippling them - I would bet that Apple set themselves up as their own virtual carrier like Virgin did (leasing airtime from Cingular / T-Mobile if they want global compatibility, or from Sprint and Verizon if they want decent broadband speed - not to turn this into a GSM/CDMA flame-war). This way they can have their iTunes store on the phone as well...
Help save the critically endangered Blue Iguana
If Apple came out with a cell phone, Chuck Norris would use it to defeat terrorism at the tune of Dead Bodies Everywhere.
Apple products do not appeal to the masses because Apple sells its products at a premium.
Last I checked, the iPod was an Apple product-- if their is any other DAP on the market with such broad appeal, I'm pretty much unaware of it. Not that I'm a fanboy, but come on, they own that market.
Along the same lines, why buy an Apple cell phone when you can buy a Nokia phone for less money?
Why would anyone buy an iPod when the can get better and cheaper DAPs from Creative and Sandisk? Marketing, mass appeal, and a loyal fan base. To suggest that an Apple cell phone wouldn't sell is pretty short sighted.
You've talked to both of them?
WHEN apple releases a phone and no one cares after the initial rush of standard fanboys
-- pupkick
wasn't there already an apple branded phone that did not sell?
un burrito me trampeó.
If Apple released a product and it didn't get any attention I would have to say either Steve Jobs is dead or do to a huge magnetic shift of earths magnetic poles his Reality Distortion field has some how be disturbed.
That depends on your definition of "better." For most people, I suspect "better" means "works with iTunes" or "has a large selection of accessories" or "has a simple interface." In this case, the iPod actually is the best DAP.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Didn't this already happen?
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Maybe they could just abandon the American market and make their phones only for Europe and Asia. Over there, everything is GSM, and phones can be easily switched between providers by switching SIM cards. Also, I believe it's customary over there to purchase your phone separately from your cellular service.
If Apple's smart, they'll just go straight to other markets with their nifty new phone, and not even bother selling it to us stupid Americans. Leave us with our crippled and overpriced phones which only work with one provider and require us to pay through the nose for every add-on or download.
...to wit, people spend $300 (and up) on video iPods, people buy third-party, licensed iTunes phones without the ability to play iTunes video content, yes, I think its quite likely that people will care about Apple-made phones with iTunes and, especially, iTunes video capability, particularly if they have the kind of data capacity that video iPods have.
Heck, I'd replace my current SLVR for one in a heartbeat, assuming it was a good phone as well as an iPod: the SLVR is a nice phone, but the storage capacity is really limited.
I don't think this is a big deal. Nintendo even has a patent for a gameboy combined with a cellphone but of course their was no press on that no was there.
This boondoggle might be the sort of thing apple needs to sober them up.
The fact of the matter is that the analysts were expecting the usual drop in the price of Apple stock following the financial disclosure. It happens every quarter. Well it didn't happen this time. With Macworld coming up the anaylists were hoping for a price drop in order to buy up and sell off when Macworld arrived. I expect we'll see several attempts to deflate the Apple ballon before Macworld since it didn't happen of it's own accord this time. Greedy bastards, always playing games and coming up with crap just to move the stock price.
There was a Apple Newton being sold on TradeMe about a week ago.
iDontCare ?
Which Dell model, exactly, can you purchase with OS X? Assuming the answer is "none", I think your characterization of the Dell system as "equivalent" is a bit misplaced.
I don't think Nokia makes a phone that seemlessly connects with iTunes, or handles video from iTunes.
There are oodles of people with existing iTunes libraries (some iPod owners, some not) for whom an iTunes phone is a major selling point. Now, if you want to say "why by an Apple phone if a Motorola phone is cheaper", well, do we know that an Apple phone will be cheaper than an otherwise-similarly-equipped Apple-licensed Motorola iTunes phone?
Holy shit. This is clearly a BIG deal. So a newton was being sold? By a person?
FUCK!
Better is a relative term. I looked into the other DAPs on the market before I bought my ipod and for what I wanted to use it for none of the others could top it.
Frankly, it looks like these 'analysts' have only one common thread: Apple is making a big mistake.
The reasons keep changing, but apparently Apple is going to be crushed by . Sell your Apple stock before it's too late!
Considering the number of analysts who really don't get Apple, the article isn't much of a suprise.
The article even quotes an analyst who thinks Apple's next big thing is selling an Apple computer with Windows preloaded. Here's a hint: Apple is not out to become the next Dell. Apple has their own OS, and its users generally buy Apple to get that OS.
There have been rumors of an Apple phone (not a Motorola or other phone that uses iTunes) for years now. I have difficulty believing that the same company that changed its entire product line from PowerPC to Intel chips in just over a year would take several years to develop a telephone.
I don't mean to discount the complexity of modern phones, of course, but Apple has wireless technology in its Airport lineup, and has embedded experience from the iPod. They have the pieces.
Frankly, it just doesn't add up that Apple would try to enter an extremely competitive market where the margins are so thin.
Let's look at the history of the analyst's wisdom:
1.) Apple has to enter the mobile phone market, or it will be destroyed. (ie. smart phones will replace iPods, and Apple is going to get left behind)
2.) Apple is readying a phone, but it'll be late to market and Apple doesn't know what it's doing.
- Two (that I know of) phones that play iTunes are released; neither are from Apple.
3.) Admit reality, and recognize the faults with theory #1
- According to TFA, playing music isn't something most consumers care about in a phone.
4.) Find a new 'mistake' for Apple: That they must still be readying the iPhone, and it will be a colossal failure.
-- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
iRokr is better that Motorola Rokr, because of the 'i'. Whee.
No, not really. The Motorola ROKR had iTunes, but it was never Apple-Branded, nor designed or manufactured in any part by Apple.
Why does apple need to sell the their phone through a carrier? They could just release a SIM-Free device for the GSM customers out there (like the ROKR).
There was nothing crippled about the "ROKR" attempt, other than the company chosen to partner on it - Motorola. The interface was slow, you couldn't buy form ITMS OTA (over the air), had limited builtin storage, and could not have external upgraded storage, it just plain sucked etc etc etc.
Since the original ROKR couldn't buy music OTA (infact you sync'd with it in itunes just like a normal ipod), why do you assume they'll force you to use their network? It makes no sense, unless you never used the device.
Last, google for Sony Ericsson W810. There's a good walkman phone for $350 unlocked, no contract, plenty of storage, upgradeable storage, 850/900/1800/1900mhz GSM, 2 megapixel cam, uncrippled yet $150 less than you claim.
You mean like the Mac Pro that costs $1,000 less than the equivalent Dell, doesn't require cash shelled out for antivirus, firewall, and antispyware software, and runs Mac OS X?
Because it's likely the Apple phone won't suck like today's phones do?
These were easy questions, got any others?
"Sufferin' succotash."
And Apple did their best to cripple the hell out of it. The "iTunes" software on it would only allow 100 songs to be sync'd, even though the phone was capable of holding far more and the phone's audio player would play as many as you want. I don't even know why Moto or Apple bothered with that. I think S.J. knew it was a dumb idea because they introduced the iPod Nano immediately after they introduced the ROKR at whatever keynote that was. Moto was pissed because the Nano totally blew it away buzz wise. I can only hope S.J. did iTunes on Moto to get an easy "in" with the folks at Cingular so that the iPhone will have a home as soon as it's released.
Don't people get tired of writing these and being proven wrong a month later? I guess after the 90s "Apple is dead" FUD didn't work, and all the "iPod killer" FUD articles of the last 24 months didn't have an effect, so now it's time to go after the iPhone?
Where is BusinessWeek's "Zune, yawn" article? Wouldn't that make more sense given Apple's staggering financial success announced this week and their path toward supplanting Gateway as the #3 U.S. computer maker?
"Sufferin' succotash."
The thing that the author just doesn't get is that Apple fans will buy or at least hype anything that Apple releases(I know because I'm one of them). Steve Jobs could shit in a box, Jonathan Ives will shape it into a cube, they will sell several million units and get a ton of attention. Time would have the iShit on the cover and Walt Mossberg will say that it is the ultimate in human excrement.
This isn't like the PC market where Dell == HP == Gateway == Lenovo and you are buying purely on price or half-baked feature x. Apple has a dedicated fanbase with a common respect for clean design and seamless integration and they know that any product coming out of Cupertino will offer that as a base, plus something that is at once totaly obvious, and completely new (or at least implemented in a sane way).
I guarantee that if Apple announces the iPhone at MacWorld 2007, there will be at least half a million people with their credit-cards out before the next slide in Steve's presentation.
I lost my mp3 player earier in the week when it fell out of my pocket as I rode my bike home from work, and I stopped on the way home to buy a new one.
Let's see... how much is that new iPod Nano? And HOW MUCH is that 8gig Sansa player with the customer-removable battery? Jeezus, this is an easy choice, and I saved about 50 bucks. I won't have to freak out if it gets a few scratches on it, but wait..this screen doesn't scratch. I'll be able to go home and download the latest Beck album via bittorrent and save another 12 bucks.
But I am kind of mad that Sansa doesn't have those cool billboards with the sillhouette of a 20-something being, well, cool. They better get on the ball if they want all the douchebags to get in line.
You are welcome on my lawn.
With an expanded memory card because the base option is only 50MB for everything. So I can store I think up to 1GB on it which accounting for other system requirements is about 200 tunes @128bit. I'm not sure what the relative difference in battery life is versus an iPod but it's sure not going to make me run out and buy one. The problem as always is the quality of the codecs. Some are good, some not so good and the quality can be crappy from mp3 player to mp3 player. I would have to assume this is something Apple would stress so the quality has to be pretty darn good. In either case, it's a tough market. You can a Nano for pretty cheap and the phone probably doesn't have a hard drive, or, if it does you don't want it. So unless the phone is very price competitive I can't see who would get one, especially since so many people already have iPods. If someone were to give me one - sure. But if I'm paying for it I might prefer a pocketPC type phone that can some business like functions and such.
I remember when the first iPod rumors were surfacing. Analysts from all over were condemning the decision before the announcement. After two years, the same analysts predicted crashing sales and the eventual sale of Apple for pennies on the dollar.
Five years later and with positive growth sales, the iPod still commands the lead in the market. And yet, analysts still can't stop predicting the demise of the iPod, Apple, and everything they do. The only thing they've been right about recently was the switch to Intel chips.
"No one cared?" That's a pretty extreme scenerio.
My DAP plays... music. Accessories include: nearly any pair of headphones, any speakers that can plug into a 1/8" jack, a standard mini-USB to USB cable. Cost $50. My DAP is better than any iPod. Interface includes such complex buttons as Play/Pause and Vol Up. Hurray SanDisk!
"Not that I'm a fanboy", but I like to strike the same poses that I see in the famous iPod "silhouette" bilboards, and I can look just like them.
Except I'm fat. Really, really fat. Why doesn't Apple ever put any silhouettes of fat people in those ads, anyway? And I've got an afro wig and I can do the Cabbage Patch as well as the next guy.
Apple needs to let me make a billboard.
I do love you so, Mr. Jobs.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Apple already lost my business. Until recently I've been in the market for a phone that combines music/video playback capability with a PDA for some time and found exactly what I wanted in the Sony Ericsson M600i just a couple of weeks ago.
It's good to have more choices for consumers on the market. Every new idea that Apple introduces to the market will inspire others to make more of their own and that will result in a richer marketplace and provide us with more choices.
There weren't as many MP3 players on the market before the iPod. Apple made everyone else step up their game and add new features and reduce their prices.
I'm not going to buy one, but thanks for giving us more choices Apple.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Sure if the phone comes with an open source firmware, then yes please!
I always wanted a phone with public-key encryption of voice and SMS.
If not, then no thanks.
better than Missing Sync, has a decent web browser and a Treo-like full thumb keyboard _and_ does Push IMAP, you're damn right I'll care. I'll order 8 the first week they are out. ( I assume the iTunes ring tones are an absolute given)
Acquiescence leads to obliteration
I think he was looking for answers, not more questions!
who | grep -i blond | date cd ~; unzip; touch; strip; finger; mount; gasp; yes; uptime; umount; sleep
Apparently the qualifications for analyst are fairly low...
No, the Macbook Pro.
Ewige Blumenkraft.
The N-Gage?
It sucked as a phone.
It sucked as a games machine.
Heck, if it had sucked any harder it would have spontaneously formed a black hole!
My Magic 8-Ball tells me Apple won't bring iPhone to the market. Apple learned their lesson from the ROKR
I am waiting for an Handheld Tablet that has WIFI and/or Bluetooth, iTunes, and VOIP iChat. Something that would compete with Nokia's Linux based Tablet.
\
Why would Apple make a phone? Apple is successful in markets that it can innovate in, the phone market has a number of players that spend all of there efforts innovating. Apple would be lost in the crowd.
There was an unknown error in the submission.
As long as it sells, it's irrelevant whether people care or not. I bet only few people truly cared about the iPod prior to launch. If no one but fanboys will care, that's going to be due to an inferior product. If it's any good, people will start to care automatically.
Same goes for any product from any vendor at any time. Most people don't care - especially not when we're talking mass market consumer electronics.
the macbook has a higher resolution, an X1600, and digital audio i/o
I stopped reading the post when he noted that the comparison wasn't even, and he left out all the other things the MacBook Pro has, including iLife, OS X, a built-in iSight camera, MagSafe, shock motion detectors, a backlit keyboard, light sensitivity sensor, and more.
"Sufferin' succotash."
MS is about the worse OS there is (2'd or 3rd in GUI, dead last in security, and generally last in speed except where MS can cheat). It is also the most expensive OS in terms of buying and maintaining. And yet, it is the most popular OS there is. So why pay the premium? Because it works with other pieces and it is what you know. IPOD is known by more than 1/2 of all mp3 players users. The phone piece will not matter. We all know how to dial. Apple will win this because it is generally designed better and works better than anything in the MS world. And the price difference is not enough to notice.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Er, he = you.
"Sufferin' succotash."
But can it play music from the iTunes Music Store?
But can it interface with a car stereo, and have the car's controls work? An iPod can, but every other DAP can't because automakers are standardizing on the iPod's dock connector and control protocol.
But does it include an easy way to find the song you want to play? Can it synchronize its playlists with your desktop jukebox program? Can it use "smart" playlists?
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
I think if Apple has a phone it will be a phone, iPod, PDA, Remote Access Device, *nix box, and 'the' video iPod. Why not? Look at what we think 'the' video iPod will be - nothing but a screen on the front, touch sensitive with controls appearing when you touch it, probably wireless, probably Bluetooth. You've got two thirds of a phone's hardware right there.. Add GSM and a few other things. Some smart phones are *nix based - just like OSX.
.mac integration, and no unreasonable cell providers to deal with. Sell it all in their retail stores. Your Apple GSM phone could use any GSM provider, but use Apple as your provider to get all the good integration stuff.
But the big thing would of course be integration. For that, Apple MUST become a virtual provider, subbing under, let's say, Cingular, like Disney did. Then they can let you buy tunes over the phone, sync properly, have high speed Internet connections that work, EMail that works,
Hmm, I wonder why Apple just bought a ginormous data center? I wonder why the video iPod and iPhone has been delayed along with some other stuff like iTV? Cause 802.11n has been delayed! The second 802.11n hardware can be cut that is sure not to need changes when the final standard is ready, I think we will see sone way cool stuff flooding out from Apple...
BTW take a peek at http://www.myallo.com/, it's my new website that does learning to find interesting web stuff without you having to look for it.
Mike from www.myallo.com/blog
It's not like Apple has discovered the one magic look that makes electronics sell. What they did was make MP3 players cool. The look played a part, the marketing played a part, the timing played a part, etc. The thing was that prior to the iPod, MP3 players were widely available but they were geek toys. Sorority girls walked around with disk/walkmen and the like if they even had a portable music player. Apple succeeded in making it fashionable to have an MP3 player, in particular an iPod.
Other than looks (meaning the physical looks and the UI), there wasn't anything special in terms of ability about an iPod. It didn't make MP3s sound better, or provide special features that others didn't. It was just a good looking, well built MP3 player. The fact that it became cool and trendy was what did it. When people had to have not just an MP3 player, but an iPod as a fashion item.
Ok but the cellphone market is different. It is already completely saturated in the hip market. It is extremely trendy to have a cell phone so they are everywhere. Also there are already many companies competing in the "Hip cool phone" market like Motorola with the RAZR.
That's not to say Apple couldn't succeed there, but that it's really different. They aren't walking in and essentially creating the market, they have to break in. Unless they have something we don't know about, then they aren't going to be really different. An iPod looking phone isn't different. Nor is a phone with features (my phone has EVDO, WiFi, Bluetooth, an MP3 player, a video player, e-mail, and so on and it's not even one of the new models). So if they produce an iPod looking phone with some features, great you have another KRZR. Maybe it does ok, but that's not going to change the cellphone world. They can't do it on hip factor alone, as that's already heavily a part of the cellphone world.
WHAT IF APPLE MADE JUST A CELL PHONE?
and not an iPod phone
- better battery life
- no cutting into iPod sales
- simple, elegant, Mac-like interface
If you want a music player, buy an iPod
if you want a world-class, desirable phone, buy the Apple iPhone
Why does this seem to be such a no-brainer?
All-in-one devices are all about compromise
They are not elegant, simple, easy-to-use or lightweight
They are usually left behind at the airport too
APPLE - JUST BUILD ME A CELL PHONE
LEAVE OUT THE MUSIC PLAYER, PDA, CAMERA, VIDEO PLAYER
THANKYOUVERYMUCH
Roger Born
Writer, Teacher, General Troublemaker
"Sorry, no refunds."
The problem with batteries is people want small devices and there is just a given energy density that current battery technology can't go below. So if I want 2 batteries I am either making the battery twice the size or half the capacity.
Also you could do this already, just mandate that below 50%, the other functions stop working. Problem is if you do this (either with 2 batteries or with a single limited one) people will get pissed. How dare you break my device just because the battery is low? What if I want to take a picture with the last remaining juice? It's my toy, I'll do with it as I please.
I think you'd find such a design very poorly received. Especially if you note that most phones get at best 4-6 hours talk time on their little batteries, and in less than optimal conditions get less. How would you like a phone that maxed out at 2 hours talk time and could get only 1 sometimes?
Wow... I wish I could dual boot 2 OSs... that must be difficult to do...
</sarcasm>
I have an ipod. It's nice but basically Apple got lucky (not denying it's good, but that isn't enough, right?). They're pretty, they're dumbed down enough that the average moron can sort of use it. This is mostly due to the fact that they have no features, nothing to get lost in, nothing to explain. The one thing I give credit to Apple for is they must not design by committee, because their products have a certain consistency to them - a sort of philosophy, I guess, that bigger companies have a really really hard time doing. A product designed by a committee is bound to suck in certain ways because of the differing objectives and mindsets. Other mp3 players I've handled (not many) have a more haphazard feel. They work, but they try to do features (since every committee member contributes theirs). The features don't play well, aren't logical, etc. They don't seem like they were DESIGNED. The ipod was the right player at the right time - but it's only a little better, really. Obviously that "little better" is worth a lot of money, so I'm not knocking it! ITunes in particular always seemed kind of half assed to me - the genius was of course getting the music industry to agree to particpate, the software is nothing unique for skilled developers. Again, other companies may not think skilled developers are important - and this cost them a lot of market share in this case.
I work for Motorola - NOT in phones. I would kill myself if I worked on the phones. How boring. The phones have a gazillion features, because they are designed by people trying to think of EVERYTHING a phone could ever do in order to attract the one freak who wants that feature. The service provides want to be able to cripple the phone to match their desired list of half-baked features / profit sucking crippleware. This results in basically crappy user interfaces and crappy inconsistent features that cost too much or you don't want. I haven't every phone, but I've never thought any were particularly better than others - they're just all different. But phones are high volume, so there is plenty of room to make 100 versions, each sucking in a slightly different way, with a different shell for different demographics.
The thing is, people KNOW how to use phones - the one on their desk which hasn't changed in forever works fine. There is no need to make it different. Same goes for playing music - you have play, pause, skip, and you are set. If you made a phone with these basic features - a keypad, and play/pause/skip - you'd have a killer phone. Shoot, throw in a camera too - add one button for that, and a flash. The battery, a hard drive, etc, they could all fit. Obviously it would be bigger than a phone without a hard drive, but not much. Phone batteries are as small as possible. Make it just a little bigger, you could do everything - but for awhile, people wanted smaller and smaller phones. They are plenty small now, but no one has stopped the downward spiral with common sense. Tape an ipod to a small phone, and is it too big? Of course not - and it would be smaller if the two batteries were merged, no extra display, etc.
Thing is, no provider would want to sell you that perfect simple phone. Because once you realized that's all you need, you would be done - no more need to upgrade. No more service plan lock-in. You'd have your phone, and you would be happy. How often do you replace your desk phone? Plus they wouldn't be able to sell you music - you'd have it the same way you put it on your ipod, from cds and from stealing, so you wouldn't download it from your provider for $2 or more (ringtones anyone?). But wait - Apple would hate this too. Suddenly they are cannibalizing their high profit margin ipod line. If you have an iphone, you don't need an ipod. And they would definitely make less on an iphone because of the other players at the table and the additional competition from the much much larger phone market (remember, Apple is really a small niche company, even if you love them - they aren't GE)
Does being 'for sale' cound as being sold?
To be sold actually requires a buyer...do we know if it was actually sold?
Max.
You put a phone in a 60GB iPod, and I'll hand over $500 for it. Nuff said.
GSM. Less space than a nomad. Lame.
"But can it play music from the iTunes Music Store?"
No, it's perfect!
"But does it include an easy way to find the song you want to play?"
yeah, the play button... I only put music on it that I want to play... makes finding it 100% success.
The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
*lol@mods* +1 informative haha
...wait
but seriously, you need less fat people to fill a billboard, which means paying less people, which means advertising is cheaper. And ya know what they say, "fat sells".
The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
What if Prudential Equity Group analyst Jesse Tortora (who?) penned an article about a phone nobody has seen yet, and nobody cared?
This is my post. There are many others like it. If you don't like what you read here, go try one of the others.
"light sensitivity sensor"
wow, it can sense how sensitive to light you are?
The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
People WILL buy Apple's products even if it contained top-notch technology, because they make it easy to use.
This is coming from a guy who hates OS-X & all Apple products, but for other reasons.
The main reason why I see this will sell like crazy in the gulf (Kuwait, UAE, KSA), is because of the huge marketing it gets here. The most basic way that iPods were being sold like nuts in Kuwait is that Virgin Megastores were the first to introduce them. And, in Kuwait, if you want to sell something, you put it in an expensive store AND EVERYBODY will buy!!! Seriously, Virgin sells iPods for almost double the price: Where an iPod would worth 60 K.D. ($180 roughly), Virgin sells it at 110-130 K.D. !! And yes, people are STILL buying, even at such high rates.
I really don't understand why rivals like SanDisk target places like Kuwait, where people are stupid enough to pay too much. (If people bought it online and got it shipped to Kuwait, it would still be cheaper than Virgin)
Mod points are a dangerous tool. Abuse them wisely.
"doesn't require cash shelled out for antivirus, firewall, and antispyware software"
You get those free with apple computers?
Like there are no free versions of those for PCs, such as AVG (which doesn't exist, please move along)
The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
A phone as simple as the iPod. Sure, as it is now, I can change the text color by 3 shades of green and TRY to organize my address book with some sort of order. But when it comes down to it, I just want it to work. ONE set of buttons for the menu, please. I'd rather not have to guess which of the three "left" buttons I need to use to do foo operation. Oh, and the brushed finish on the new nano is nice. Not as fingerprinty as those shiny plastic phones. /rant
Who needs another phone? There are more phones on the market than I know what to do with and given ipod sales, we all already have them. Combining the two just doesn't do much for me.
What's missing is the PDA/phone option especially for mac users. I have a treo 650 and I'm reasonably pleased but it's not great. There's no handwriting recognition like my old Palm devices. The WinCE devices are out of the question (sure there's missing sync but then you cannot sync to macs and pcs you have to pick one.
If there is a really good PDA Phone that supports lots of useful apps works with any OS (well at least Win/Mac and why not Linux), supports handwriting recognition I'll bet it doesn't have nearly as much competition as a music playing phone would.
The screen is the most expensive part of the machine, and according to your own link the HP doesnt have as nice a screen (or vid card). Add to that the fact the HP one looks like crap (yes, you do pay for design, in anything you buy), and is heavier (which is a significant factor when you carry your laptop everywhere like I do), and the price difference doesnt look bad at to all to me...
"goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
My DAP plays... music. Accessories include: nearly any pair of headphones, any speakers that can plug into a 1/8" jack, a standard mini-USB to USB cable. Cost $50. My DAP is better than any iPod. Interface includes such complex buttons as Play/Pause and Vol Up. Hurray SanDisk!
iPod shuffle?
It's always confirmation bias!
So Apple will at least sell one phone.
a rotary-dial mobile phone! Sure, Maxwell Smart had one, but I haven't seen any others since :-)
-- All your bass are below two Hz
Oh and don't forgot the whole balkan trouble.
No, there are a lot of things to model your business on but US foreign policy ain't one of them.
Please note that I do not think all the results of US foreign policy are bad but from a strictly selfish US standpoint you could easily say that the results have been pretty lousy. A company like Apple doesn't have to have noble pursuits. Apple copying US foreign policy would see them toppling the evil Microsoft Empire only to then be squashed flat by every taiwanese/chinese electronics company.
Are you sure this had anything to do with what Apple wanted? You know those American cell phone companies like to charge customers great fees for every little download on a phone. Maybe the cell phone companies threatened to bad the phone if there was no song limit.
why buy an Apple cell phone when you can buy a Nokia phone for less money?
I was in mobile phone sales for a short while. I was surpised to find that many people will buy a phone on a higher cost plan than they use to get a phone they percieve to be fashionable. I didn't take any stats, but a significant portion of people will do this, even paying $20/month higher than their call usage. Not surprisingly, mobile phone bills were at the time a leading cause of personal bankruptcy (here in Oz). If there is another market where Apples strategy of high priced fashionable hardware is mainstream, it's mobile phones.
http://marriedmansexlife.com/
I personally think the article title has it about right. People don't generally care about the brand of cell phone, they care about the service plan offered with it. Why do you think most phones are constructed so poorly they're basically disposable? If the chinsy little motorola iTunes phones didn't take off, why would a phone that has a full blown iPod be received any better? Phones are almost always a utility first, and a source of entertainment last.
If Apple really wants to enter the cell phone business, they should focus on service, rather than hardware, and open the service to compatible brands/models with the processing power to utilize whatever services they plan to offer. One possible use for an Apple-based cellular service, would be to merge ichat support into it. That way, a cell phone could contact a user with VOIP by their ichat/aim user id... or an ichat/aim user could double click on a user to automatically dial their cell phone and initiate an audio chat with that person when the call is answered.
But if Apple goes on to use a closed system with only links to iTMS, I can't see how such a product would succeed. They'd have more luck simply giving the 6G iPod a built in wifi adapter to access itunes music store directly, when it's in range of an open network.
8==8 Bones 8==8
...but the iPod story really can't be explained by Apple fanboys. Unless they are buying 8 to 10 iPod each per quarter and giving them to people, there just simply are not enough fanboys to account for the sales figures.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
i'm surprised nobody linked to the fake iPhone ads some people made.
You know those American cell phone companies like to charge customers great fees for every little download on a phone. Maybe the cell phone companies threatened to bad the phone if there was no song limit.
That's not a bad theory, it's amazing how they try to get people to pay for things (ringtones, backgrounds, stupid songs/videos) that are freely available if they didn't make it such a pain to put them on the phone.
I just got the Sony Ericsson W810i - only took Cingular about 6 months to finally offer it. Great Walkman phone & decent 2MP camera. But I have to say the syncing software is just barely usable. If Apple made a phone anywhere near the quality of the W810i but usable with iTunes it could destroy these nice-phones-with-horrible-software-support.
Try dual booting OS X on non-Apple PCs... oh, and have everything run smoothly of course (speed/drivers).
In my opinion Macs are better because of OS X; the design and hardware features are just extras.
What if slashdot wrote an article, and no one cared?
I've seen quite a few phones with integrated Mp3 players around lately. Doesn't seem like a terrible idea to me, as I do find having my belt full with mp3 player, personal cell, work pager, pocketknife, etc a little combersome.
My biggest worry, as always, would be battery life. If it has a hard-drive, then running it for a few hours isn't going to do wonders, and then you can't receive calls. A flash-based variety would be best for batteries, but you're still killing the longevity of the phone by needing more regular chargings to top it up after mp3 usage.
One idea that might work is to have a dual-battery system. One for the phone (like Li+), and another small one for the mp3 player. I've got a lyra that goes for most of a day on a AAA, so it wouldn't need to be something that adds much bulk, but would be enough to power a flash-based storage system without many problems (and flash is smaller too).
And my $999 MacBook runs Windows XT via Parallels (good $71 investment from Amazon), although I prefer OSC by a longshot. Also no security problems to be concerned (and waste valuable time) with.
What's past is NOT ALWAYS prologue for the future!
Build up an iTunes collection and you're stuck with Apple players, for life.
OK, it's time again for the Obligatory iTunes Anti-FUD Post.
Remember, kids, iTunes != iTunes Store. If you put your own ripped (or pirated) music into iTunes, THERE IS NO DRM AND NO LOCK-IN. Sorry to shout, but it's amazing how often this point is ignored, misunderstood, or obfuscated, no matter how often it's repeated.
iTunes and DRM only mix when the music is *purchased* from the iTunes Store. Even then, it's trivial for even Joe Sixpack to defeat the DRM if he senses that the end of iTunes is near: burn and rip, or use a hack such as QTFairUse for better quality.
iTunes is perfectly capable of dealing with non-DRM music in any format QuickTime can handle, which includes AAC, MP3, WAV/AIFF and Apple Lossless natively as well as Vorbis and FLAC with plug-ins. (The iPod can't handle the plug-in formats, but if you use Vorbis and FLAC you probably think the iPod is "lame" because its interface isn't confusing enough. [Just teasing!])
not OSC. Guess my fingers are trained to type OSC (Ohio Supercomputer Center), sorry.
What's past is NOT ALWAYS prologue for the future!
Do you actually know people who buy songs on itunes? I use Music match myself but of all the people I know noone actually buys their music on line. They just rip stuff to their computer and then put it on the player. I'm taling about the whole spectrum of users form ten year olds to hipster techies to grandmas. Then again you're probley from some hipster state where everything is wrong. did I say hipster too many times? Get off my lawn ITMS!
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
Who cares if it works with the iTunes music store? iTunes is a plague
You can burn audio CDs from FairPlay encoded songs. If all else fails there is Hymm.
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
Because it's likely the Apple phone won't suck like today's phones do?
Explain (in some way that doesn't make you sound like a starry-eyed fan of S. Jobs)
Oh, and don't mention 'BMW' or 'Ferrari' in your explanation. That's getting really, really old.
Interface includes such complex buttons as Play/Pause and Vol Up. Hurray SanDisk!
But can you easily and quickly find and play a specific song out of 2000 that may be on there?
(Cue "But why would you WANT 2000 songs on there?")
Does it make you happy you're so strange?
I would rather that the Cellphone market was like the computer market. Computer makers make, and sell the hardware, and you buy bandwidth from cable or phone company. No weirdo hardware tie ins with the network. You don't buy your PC from your cable company, and you don't buy your TV from the cable company. Why should you buy your cellphone from its network provider? What exactly is their value add in the phone? And hey wait, isn't reception the biggest problem with cellphones? I'm betting its not the cellphone thats the problem. Could be we might all be better off with the network providers investing in the network, instead of trying to convince us that we have to buy the new cellphone from them.
My brother purchased a MacBook a few months ago through a friend who works at Apple. I periodically mention to him when Apple comes out with a new product. Since getting his MacBook he has been chomping at the bit waiting for Apple to make a cell phone. He's had such a good experience with the MacBook that he would not think before ditching his current cell phone for anything made by Apple.
....You get those free with apple computers?....
No, the Macs don't need extra performance robbing items such as these. Macs may not be immune, but AFAIK few if any Mac users have ever gotten malware on their computers. Maybe, someday there will be a REAL honest to goodness virus or worm that will affect large numbers of Mac users, but, so far there has not been any such thing.
All theory is gray
yeah, the play button... I only put music on it that I want to play... makes finding it 100% success.
That's a retarded response and you know it. Put your whole library on it. Then play all the "rock" songs on shuffle. Then, locate that song titled "Aeroplane" where you can't remember the artist name. The iPod goes a long way toward making your music library just as manageable on the go as it is on your computer.
But can it play music from the iTunes Music Store?
... no. My standard $10 Portable CD player to tape deck adapter works fine though.
Who the fuck cares? I never have used it, and I never will.
But can it interface with a car stereo, and have the car's controls work? An iPod can, but every other DAP can't because automakers are standardizing on the iPod's dock connector and control protocol.
Can I afford a car that has this?
But does it include an easy way to find the song you want to play? Can it synchronize its playlists with your desktop jukebox program? Can it use "smart" playlists?
With 512 MB of flash memory, I put my own playlists together, and it is pretty elementary to thumb through. Before you talk about how much more space an iPod has, remember these three things:
1) I do not have close to 30 GB of music.
2) I may have 2GB of music I want to access more than occasionally. I don't keep 20 GB of dead weight on my DAP.
3) 8 hours of music is plenty long enough for anything I do.
Let me ask you a few questions:
1) Does your iPod use standard USB/mini-USB connections on the DAP itself, or do you have to pay for some propriatary connection?
2) Can you replace your battery?
3) Can you use regular alkalines if you get stuck without your AC adapter to recharge?
4) Did you pay more than $50?
I wasn't going to buy a DAP until they got under $50, and I will not buy a DAP with a hard drive. iPods are ridiculous. They are simply status symbols, and their price far outpaces their utility.
The MOMENT something branded with the cursed fruit logo is released, hordes of screaming Apple fanboys will descend upon it from on high and buy it in droves. Simply because it says apple, so it must be good. Same behaviour is seen with Japanese culture fanboys. "What's that? Wow! It's Japanese! I can't understand it, but it's Japanese so it MUST be cool!!111"
The Apple phone is at risk of suffering some of the same ills that terminated the ESPN MVNO phone.
1) Most people are already in cell contracts. To get the Apple phone, they will have to re-up for a new contract (and pay full price for it as an "exisiting" customer) or jump from their old company to Apple's MVNO provider of choice. If the MVNO doesn't operate in your area or you can't use them, you are screwed.
2) If you don't like the Apple phone, you're screwed. Phones are much harder to get right than a simple music player, and a phone that suits one person will be junk to another. It's more subjective than any product Apple has ever sold.
3) Apple is going to be at risk of complaints from the cell users. People like to bitch at their cell carriers. Can Apple handle that? Can they do anything about it?
4) Most people already have DAPs. Do they really need a new one? Do they need a new one that uses the phone battery to play music? What happens when you want to make a call but all the battery is shot because you spent all day listening to podcasts? 911 or music, you make the choice.
I have difficulty believing that the same company that changed its entire product line from PowerPC to Intel chips in just over a year would take several years to develop a telephone.
The problems in phone development aren't necessarily the chip technology or the software code. They might include battery management (one of the keys to the iPod's success), user experience, business model development, etc--all of which would take much longer to solve due to the iterative process of solving them. When you're converting a back-end you at least have a defined experience to build to; when you're trying to redefine what it means to use a cell phone, or strike unprecedented deals with mobile operators, it takes a long time to even define achievable success.
It seems extremely likely that Apple is working on a cell phone--several executives have as much as admitted it. The real question is probably whether they can figure out a way to bring it to market that they are happy with. As others have noted, wireless carriers are extremely protective of their control over what phones on their network can do, and what they can bill for. MVNO might be the only way for Apple to deliver the experience they want, but MVNO is a loser strategy in mobile--too easy for the others to marginalize. And it would mean stepping way, way outside Apple's core competency. Running a network is nothing like designing and selling computers. No, I think they want to sell through established operators, but still let the music management happen via the Mac/PC.
Apple in fact might feel that they have to enter this market. Digital camera and PDA markets have both felt the sharp bite of the cell phone and I do not see why music would be any different. Playing music might not be something that users care about in a phone right now, but playing music is something they do care about. If someone can make it easier for them to do it they'll flock to it--just like every phone sold now has a camera built in. Reducing the number of devices to carry (iPod + phone --> iPhone) would count as making it easier.
To me it seems inevitable that phones will kill off small-storage MP3 players at some point in the next several years. Perhaps Apple figures if they're going to lose some iPod market share it might as well be to themselves.
Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Which Dell model, exactly, can you purchase with OS X? Assuming the answer is "none", I think your characterization of the Dell system as "equivalent" is a bit misplaced.
No, they don't run OS X, but they run something better: Linux. Same UNIX foundation as OX X, but a more modern and more efficient window system, better user interface, thousands of built-in applications, and a better software development environment. Oh, and in case you were wondering, it synchronizes with iPod, too.
Wrong, jackass. People who carry cell phones that can play music also carry MP3 players because those cell phones suck at being music players.
Game... blouses.
iPods are far more than a status symbol. I always thought I wouldn't be one of those guys, and I am. I broke down and bought a 60GB one. Let me put this in perspective though. I am a huge music fan. I buy 2-3 cds a month on average and generally goto a concert every month if there's anyone around worth seeing. I love it a lot, and listen to music all day in lab. I never liked using the all in one digital jukebox thing itunes was, and used xmms for years. I had my music organized by artist and just put on the directory I wanted to hear.
Then I bought a mac. I started using iTunes, I went through and reencoded my music as I realized oggs were a waste of my time. iTunes just made all the things I did easy. After a while i thought about getting an iPod too. however I had already ripped over 20GB of music to my hdd and I had gotten nowhere near done with my music collection. I looked around at audio players, and I looked at integrating one with my car. I may have been able to save $20-$30 by getting some no name brand, however most of the other major players at the time weren't offering 60GB players. Kind of sold me on an iPod. The fact that I could hook it up to my car ($95 stereo, $75 adapter and done) made it even better.
The question to me isn't "do i need 60 GB of music with me at all times?" The answer is obviously no. That would take me a month to listen to. It's not that I need it, however when I'm about to go somewhere or whatever I don't want to go "oh shit what do I want to listen to... let me throw this on my mp3 player". Instead I grab my ipod and choose something I want to hear. Or I go on a car trip, and decide to listen to a different band.. no problem, I have it loaded on here. When you have a music collection of over 300 cds it's wonderful to listen to whatever you want, whenever you want. You might call me lazy for not being willing to reload it every time. Sure I am. I also value my time, and don't want to waste it.
Now with that all said, one of the biggest motivaters for getting an iPod was so I wouldn't have to keep so much music on my laptop (instead I kept it on my file server) so I could listen to music in lab. I know it's an expensive external hard drive, but when I'm driving anywhere, or walking or biking, or whatever I definately don't regret it.
Was my iPod expensive? Sure I paid a good chunk of change for it. Do i worry about my battery? no, if it dies I order a kit online for $40 to replace it. Is an iPod for you? No, you obviously don't find it worthwhile, however for those of us who do, it is naive of you to think we buy them only as a status symbol. Maybe some people buy the nanos or shuffles just to have an apple ipod, but most of us who buy the big ones are doing it for ease of use and convenience
Phil
Phil Schiller made a comment a little while back - "we think the camera is on the wrong side of the phone". I think you are going to see some category-busting features like videoconferencing.
"The world is a construct of forceful imagination. Those who don't know walk around in the reailties of those who do"
My interest is a little peaked, but they made no mention of details.
"Peaked", as best fits this sentence, means "having reached its climax; waning". As in, "Her interest in me peaked after I walked to my 1983 VW Diesel Rabbit".
Perhaps what you meant was "piqued"? The meaning here would be "provoked or aroused".
It's not just that spelling makes you look stupid in written communications - in cases such as this, it can actually cause your message to be strongly mis-interpreted!
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
I think iTunes the player - not the store - is still a competitive advantage. It's an extremely powerful and logical music database app and it's, IMHO, the slickest, easiest, rip, mix, burn, sync tool available for MP3 players going. A good example is the finesse with which it treats podcasts. It syncs both ways so that podcasts you have listened to all the way through - either on the iPod or in iTunes - are deleted from either ( if you choose that in preferences ). Also, Smart Playlists are hella cool.
"The world is a construct of forceful imagination. Those who don't know walk around in the reailties of those who do"
Because apple has made a bundle of money on the two things phones still desperately need:
1)Usability - Apple is very good at creating user friendly interfaces
2)Simple, streamlined design - Something which very few phones have these days
"goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
The ipod was entering a largely empty, immature market. The mobile phone market is mature and saturated, they're going to find it a lot harder to break into this.
It doesn't matter. I don't care. I'll switch. And I bet there's a lot of people just like me.
Step 1. Bash rumored Apple product, cause stock price to dip. Step 2. Purshace shares of Apple. Step 3. Have Apple release shiney new product thats going to take over the world. Step 4. ??? Step 5. Profit I can't think of any other reason for this article to be writen.
No smoking sigs indoors.
I know 3 people who are trying to avoid buying phones until the apple ones come out.
Thousands of built in applications - yes
more efficient windowing system - maybe, even probably
better software development - again, maybe
better user interface - NO. Linux doesn't work because you occaisonally have to drop to the CLI or edit a preferences file by hand to do complicated things like make integrated sound or newer video cards work. The rest of it maybe be wonderful, but the second a person has to look at the manual or ask a veteran and it/he says "go to the command line and...", it's game over. I can figure out what "sudo apt-get distro-update" means, but Joe Average can't. And apt-get is the easiest package manager (or so many say). Similarly, if someone has to edit multiple config files to get graphics to work, then it's a no-go. And when Flash/WMV/whatever doesn't work, Joe Average doesn't care why. He just cares that Linux won't do it, and Windows or OS X will.
This reflects in the fact that most manufacturers sell different models in different parts of the world. Apple would need to come up with something that is universally appealing, and that's a tall order.
Also, people seem to forget that when Apple entered the computer and the MP3 player market, both markets where still in their infancies. Now, Apple is trying to enter a very mature market, with a lot of big, entrenched players. If Apple do very well, they might get 4-5% market share. Now, they could earn a lot of money off that, but Moto, Samsung, SE and Nokia do not have sleepless nights about this.
Microsoft released a new operating system, named Visa? Who cares, 9 out of 10 will use it anyway because it comes free with the machine.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
Lots of them here. All Windows Mobile devices come with a media player, Samsung makes one with a 4GB drive and generally they're pretty good - been around for about 5 years and are certainly more than a rumour. AFAIK, Microsoft doesn't loose cash on these, it just supplies the reference hardware and OS.
N-Gage (and it's sucessor) was a Nokia product, not Nintendo.
Given the drawbacks nearly all mobile phones have today (too many useless features, ugly design, just as PCs).
Wait, I know: a stellar review from Walt Mossberg and five mice from Macworld magazine!
Same UNIX foundation as OX X
Nuh-uh... OS X uses a wierd hybrid of BSD and CMU Mach, in many ways it's worse than Linux, but it does at least have a stable ABI for hardware manufaturers to code to. Hence you get real vendor supported hardware on Mac, and unsupported sellotape-and-string drivers made by amateur coders who are usually making educated guesses at how the hardware actually works, and doing it in their spare time on Linux.
but a more modern and more efficient window system
Fuck off you idiot. X11 is over 20 years old now, and is only just beginning to support compositing and buffered drawing. X11 is not more modern, and with the addition of kludges to allow compositing gets even more layers between the software and the hardware below it. GLX requires TWO X servers to be running. That's not efficient, and it's certainly not modern.
better user interface
Don't you mean better user interfaces? Which one of the various completely different interfaces are you talking about?
thousands of built-in applications
Which are split between KDE, GNOME, XFCE, Gnustep and mesh together horribly and draw 100MB of base libraries into ram when you run them. Mmm...
Those would be the applications which are only built-in until someone mentions how many security and bug patches there are, or wants support, and then they all become third-party.
and a better software development environment.
Oh yeah, gotta love VI.
Oh, and in case you were wondering, it synchronizes with iPod, too.
Providing you have the right version of libipod installed and have automount set up correctly, and that you have the USB subsystem working and your iPod formatted for windows and... and.. and...
Unfortunately QT 7 broke the FLAC plug-in and the current iteration only works with Ogg-FLAC which must account for around 1% of the FLAC files in the world. Happily, QuickTime in Leopard will have native FLAC support.
Considering the manner in which Apple's last handheld was treated, why would you buy a small handheld from Apple?
Considering the manner Apple treated Motorola in the past, why would one of leaders in making chips for cell phones want to work with Apple...except at a premium price?
I'd rather just get a phone based on Open Source and watch whatever Apple would think of creating be actually implemented on said Open Source based phone. That, and have sync code that runs on an Open Source OS vs the present model of sync code that Apple has on Open Source OSes.
unless they come up with a remarkable idea, their phone surely can't top my XV6700 that lets me sync up with Outlook, use and install many different apps and games, play videos and music, and use a built in digital camera that also shoots video, browse the net, write emails, word docs, excel spreadsheets, a universal remote control, voice recognition to launch programs and contacts, and has a slide out keyboard etc...etc...
I just don't think a sexytime cool guy phone with a built in mp3 player is going to make the world beg for one.. they're going to have to make their phone MUCH more than just an mp3 player phone if they want to compete in this vast market.. they'd have to incorporate atleast half of the features I mentioned above, in a Apple comparable way, before I even considered looking at one..
i am though, very curious to see what they can come up with.. i hope to christ for their sake, that they do something innovative..
*plays the Apogee theme song music*
Why then, we might actually take a step toward being a legitimate site again.
The real reason why the cell phone/Ipod hybrid will fail to materialize soon, is that mp3s played on cellphones sound like crap, IMHO.
It doesn't take too much market research to tell you that people hate the way ringtones sound. Not to mention that some people find that people blaring songs on their Ipod is the '06 equivelent of blasting music on a boombox.
How many people are going to carry around earbuds to listen to music? Where do the earbuds go when you have to answer the phone? You can't expect people to listen to a 5 minute song and relax while holding the phone up to their ears right? Or do you now need two bluetooth ear pieces? I think the whole idea is silly.
I've had several players and they all, of course, did about the same job when it came to playing music. The difference for me is that the iPod makes it easier to get at what I want when I want it.
:)
My 60GB iPod is full - I've got 1 season of The Office on it and the rest is music. I like being able to drag around my entire music collection in a pocket. I get into random moods and want to listen to something I haven't heard for awhile, it's there, and that makes me happy.
On my old player - an Archos - it would take, uh.... A long time to find the song I wanted. There was this one nubbin to go up and down lists (SLOWLY - I've got thousands and thousands of songs, and the speed it went through stuff was waaaaaay too slow for me. I'd guess it would take over a minute to find one particular song in the middle of the alphabet, for example) and there were 2 buttons that seemed to swap functions randomly. Sometimes you press button 1 to do something, but in certain cases, you have to press button 2 to do something, but when you're going through the menu and you press button 2 it will kick you back to the main menu (making you hunt for your song again) etc.
With the iPod, I'd say 15 seconds on the outside to find any song. And the interface is straight-forward and consistent.
I'm probably not the typical consumer either - most people with the 60GB ones probably don't have 'em filled, or if they do it's going to be mostly video instead of mostly music - but for me, until someone comes up with a way to get at what I want when I want it that is substantially better (and that would be, probably, me saying the name of the song I want or even humming a bit of it) it's going to be the iPod.
BTW - if you want a free one, just find a bank that's giving away nano's for free when you open a checking account. Open the account with $50, get nano, wait 6 months or so, and then close the account taking home $51.50
Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
I believe your other two examples. This, though, I highly doubt, all "but but iTMS!!" remarks aside. I'm fairly sure "it has to work with iTunes" is even remotely near the top of anyone's priority list when it comes to a DAP.
Spoken like a true pirate/copyright infringer.
I have a pretty good music collection. I even have some music I wasn't authorised to obtain (and can even admit it, without excuse). But I do know this, when I put songs on my music player, particularly as you implied, "your library", I sure as fuck knows the artist that plays a song I'm making a specific conscious decision to choose. Even if I didn't know who it was when I first heard it on the radio, I do by the time I've tracked the name down, acquired it, and moved it to my player.
I'm going to guess you're in the US. What relevance does this have?
You're not qualified to judge "today's phones" if you live in the US. You're behind the times, in most cases a /long way/ behind the times. Two way cellular video calling? The rest of the world has had it for /years/. Broadband speeds, a la EV-DO and beyond? Again, the world has had it for years. 3G? Years.
Have you seen the interface on something /new/, like a Nokia N92? Clue: Nokia and other manufacturers don't overly "care" about the US market. They have to re-engineer the software for their phones for TDMA and all such crap, and given that the rest of the world tends to have a far higher penetration of cellular devices, it's a lower priority. I've seen people boasting about their "new top of the line" phone which, if you go to the .au site of the manufacturer is flagged way down in "Discontinued Products".
That being said, we'll address the other issue. Your complete lack of actual 'evidence' for your opinion. I'll be the first to admit Apple knows UI. Guess what? Building a next generation cellular phone is a bit more than "stick a UI on a two way radio". It's playing massive catchup to companies with 20 years of knowledge building these devices. Nokia used to (still does) make /toilet paper/. They engineered their way into their place now with the expenditure of TENS OF BILLIONS of dollars. And you, you think Jobs will click his fingers and those magic Apple phones will just piss all over Nokia, Motorola, Ericsson, Samsung, etc. I'm impressed at your optimism.
Or will Apple just magic itself a leading edge team of cellular hardware engineers out of thin air.
You'd think if an Apple phone was coming, they might have done something unusual, like, I don't know, advertised for engineers with this skills set. And since they'd be poaching them from Nokia, Ericsson, Motorola et al, someone might have noticed something was up.
But hey, Apple rumour, always good for getting the fan boys to drive up your ad impressions.
For the last time:
'a phone that seemlessly connects with iTunes'
seamless - a term to be thrown around by PHBs, marketdroids, and product reviewers once a product has been released. Also to be used at project proposal or powerpoint presentation time by coders and developers
seemless - Once the product has demonstrated a certain level of unreliability, a term to be used ONLY by the developers and QC people involved, in the presence of their managers, who are demanding an explanation: It seemless troublesome at the time, back in the lab...
Softbank purchased Vodaphone's Japan operation and they have a hugely advertised campaign in which you get a free iPod Nano with their music capable phone. Their campaigns are all based on "+ othercompany = Softbank", i.e. tieups with other companies i.e. Sharp's AQUOS high quality flat panel television added to make a rotatable portrait display on a phone. Unknown if the price point will be enough for the U.S. but for elsewhere the answer would be not only yes but they probably already are ramping up distribution.
The "conspiracy theorist" in me thinks the ROKR ... limitations ... might have some relationship with Apple having been held back by troubles with Moto's PowerPC CPUs, particularly the 1+ year G4 500MHz ceiling and their inability and/or unwillingness to produce a G5.
But does it include an easy way to find the song you want to play?
Am I the only person in the world who thinks the iPod's interface is shit? I have a G5 iPod and the user interface from my ancient Rio 500 is superior - it had a tiny thumb-scroll button on the side that was far easier to use than the wheel, and could be easily operated with one hand. It also had precise tactile button controls for operating the player. With the iPod you're as likely to change the volume as you are to change the track.
I'd have gone with something else, but unfortunately (at the time), the iPod was the highest capacity player on the market that wasn't massively overpriced.
"1) Does your iPod use standard USB/mini-USB connections on the DAP itself, or do you have to pay for some propriatary connection?"
Who the fuck cares? It comes with the iPod.
"2) Can you replace your battery?"
Yes. I have replaced the batteries on my iPods. It's easy, and you can find them on the internets quite easily. OR, you can just take it to an Apple store and they will give you a nice shiny replacement iPod with a new battery in it for $59. $59... pretty sweet.
"3) Can you use regular alkalines if you get stuck without your AC adapter to recharg"
Who the fuck cares? I can get an AC adapter that works in any car, or one for any wall socket, or one for planes, or... you see, the accessory list for the iPod is more than all other players combined. No need for alkalines (the enviro doesn't like your solution either).
"4) Did you pay more than $50?"
Hell yeah, and I got what I paid for.
"I wasn't going to buy a DAP until they got under $50, and I will not buy a DAP with a hard drive. iPods are ridiculous. They are simply status symbols, and their price far outpaces their utility."
You can't afford one (I'm sorry, I truly am, I wish everyone could have an iPod), that does suck. But to literally "whine" about it seems, well, childish. Just let it go man. The iPods are great for what they do. They really are. They are small, have good battery life, the NANO's and Shuffles do not use hard drives, connect seamlessly to the best music purchasing site on the planet, and is easy enough for my Grandma to use. Done.
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel Boorstin
Nothing would kill an Apple phone faster than a camera that you can't use to send people snaps and movies of what you're looking at. The screen of the camera phone is the viewfinder, friend. And videoconferencing on a cellphone? Let's share pictures of our ears!
But you may be onto something. After discovering how perfectly useless the camera on my Macbook Pro is, I can well believe that Apple would put an equally useless camera in a phone.
People who carry cell phones that can play music also carry MP3 players because those cell phones suck at being music players.
The whole "thing plus music player" idea is shonky.
If the other thing you do with the device is important, then you quickly discover that you'd rather save your battery for whatever that is instead of playing music. I've had a "music player phone" that was a Pocket PC, so I could run a variety of music software on it, and did. Briefly. First time I couldnt place a call because the battery was low I quit playing music on it.
If the other thing you do with the device isn't important, you just paid more for less music player.
I've been wondering that myself. What would be so special about an Apple iPhone that would distinguish it from any number of other cell phones out there that play music already? Sony has their Walkman phones, Motorola has the SLVR, ROKR, KRZR, etc. I think Samsung even has phones that play music. Then you get into the Smartphones like Blackberries or Treos and all those can play music as well.
Apple will have to make something pretty special to differentiate it from the others since they are late to the game. Video? It's been done. Chat? Already done. Music? Already done. Live TV? Already done. WiFi + GSM or CDMA in a single phone? Already done. iSync compatibility? Tons of phones available that have that. Organizers, calendars, todo lists, etc.? Been done. Cameras? Done. Video cameras? Done. E-Mail? Done. So Apple, what can you offer in an iPhone that would distinguish itself from 50 other phones other there that have all of the above features besides a white plastic case and a light-up Apple logo on the back of it?
Because if Apple designs the phone, they'll make big mistakes like they make in all their hardware, and sell the mistakes as "style", and never fix them.
HP's quote "The network is the computer"?
Apple isn't stupid - to re-invent a better mouse trap. US cellular providers have had this completely piece of shit Oligopoly which panders ring tones and features as service. If Apple brings i* (whatever) its going to disrupt the marketplace, abstract a layer above the network (owned by Apple - think iTMS) and broker the transaction for fee.
I would guess this Apple device is going to know how to "connect", "inter-connect" and "cross connect". European carriers have rolled out extremely valuable properties leveraged off "text" capabilities of phones. Apple will bring it... you will benefit and the phone will be just a vehicle like the pod is just form-factor in the scheme.
i don't even own a personal mp3 player *lol* i thought it was quite obvious my response wasn't meant to be taken seriously
The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
Maybe Apple could make a phone with an interface that doesn't make me want to smash it into the nearest wall whenever I use it.
Sorry -- I didn't mean my reply to be a personal attack on your post. My point is just something that needs to be repeated often on ./, because there is a very persistent idea here that somehow using iTunes or an iPod will contaminate your DRM-free music with DRM.
I do agree with the other poster that iTunes's interface and capabilities give it a competitive advantage over many other music library programs, but I certainly don't see it as the only one out there. Personally, even though all but a tiny fraction of my music is ripped from my own CDs, I use it because it scales relatively well for large libraries, it is well integrated with OS X, and it offers a few more ID3 tags than competing programs, which is very important when you're trying to fit classical music into the ID3 box.
Out of those three, I only have antivirus (I sit behind a linux masq/firewall so don't have to worry about that side of things) software. I run the free version of AVG for that, which behaves very well (I've convinced some people to switch from norton, then watched their faces as their computer speeds up loads).
I recommend anyone using norton (and possibly others) for AV to switch to it, and watch your computer get faster.
It'll be interesting to see how viruses go now that apple have moved to x86, as a virus can use the same instruction code for most of the virus, but use different vectors for the system calls depending on what OS it's running on.
The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
>Spoken like a true pirate/copyright infringer.
Spoken like a true closed mind.
One of the things I love about track-by-track downloads is that I can explore dozens of new artists every month. Sometimes I won't remember the artist name or track name. I will know that I recently purchased it and can access my recently purchased smart playlist. *That* is usability that I gladly pay a premium for.
1-7-7-2-5-5-5-1-2-1-2-CALL
God. That's so hard, and so needing of streamlining.
Apple's also the company that foisted the awful trackpad mouse-alternative upon the world. They're far from perfect, they're just better than Microsoft.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
You can't afford one (I'm sorry, I truly am, I wish everyone could have an iPod), that does suck. But to literally "whine" about it seems, well, childish. Just let it go man. The iPods are great for what they do. They really are. They are small, have good battery life, the NANO's and Shuffles do not use hard drives, connect seamlessly to the best music purchasing site on the planet, and is easy enough for my Grandma to use. Done.
No. My response is to the rabid evangelism. Most people would be perfectly happy with a SanDisk if they didn't worry about showing it to my friends. I could afford a iPod, but why bother. There is nothing it has that I want over mine. In fact, my DAP comes with a voice mic standard, and as a comedian that has come in handy more than once.
Your grandma is a retard if she cant use a SanDisk. Sorry.
When I saw the nano, the first thing I thought was "wow, if only this was a phone too".
Here's an Apple business plan - free of charge.
1) Buy RIM, improve battery technology, sell Nanos and iPod Videos with phone and push email.
2) ???
3) Profit.
Apple won't release one.
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
What, you mean Hymn works again? As far as I knew, it was still broken...
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Right, so an iPod isn't the best player for you. But my point was that it is the best player for some other people, and they have valid reasons for choosing it!
I have no problem with you using a portable CD player if you want; why are you so bent out of shape about other people using iPods? It's none of your concern anyway, so you're just being a meddlesome bigot!
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
And I'm fairly sure you're wrong, because I am a counterexample.
I'm a Mac (and Linux) user, and I like iTunes. I like its method of organization, I like the Party Shuffle, and I especially like Smart playlists. The only thing I don't like is its integration with iTMS (I hate DRM), so I just don't use that feature.
Now, when I decided to get a DAP, I had two options: get an iPod, which would automatically sync with my iTunes library and support my Smart Playlists, or get some other DAP that wouldn't. Guess which I chose!
In fact, you know what? Being a geek, I probably would have otherwise preferred one of those other players with the radio tuner and the cryptic interface and whatnot, but iTunes integration actually trumped all those other considerations. So yes, working with iTunes wasn't just on my priority list, it was indeed at the top of it!
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
I wrote that post, and you're still confused about what I said. When I said "works with iTunes," I meant exactly that: that it works with iTunes, the software. If I had meant iTMS, I would have said "iTMS." Personally, I think iTunes is a really great program, since it has features like Smart Playlists and whatnot. I bought an iPod because it works with iTunes, and I have absolutely no intention whatsoever of ever buying music from iTMS.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
I would be sad that slashdot shut down, because as long as Slashdot is alive, there will always be diehard fanboys who step in line with whatever Apple and Jobs say.
"intel stinks, its slow...." "YA THEY STINK! TOO SLOW..."
"intel is awesome and faster" "YA INTEL IS GREAT! SO FAST!!!!"
Before you flame me, can't you take a joke? Come on now... I know I'm not Jobs, but thats good stuff!
Am i the only ones that used a Siemens SX1 to it's full extent? Listening to MP3's or Ogg files! It was one of the first phones to have this feature! Also, from what i understand you want the people to listen to this music using the built-in speaker? What have you been smoking? The mobiles have, like ANY portable music device - earbuds! Even more, the earbuds have a microphone dongle on the part of the cable thats closest to the neck, so that if youre listening, and someone calls you can press a button, the music pauses and you talk to the person. When the call ends the music resumes!
I can't even count the number of times i missed the call because i couldnt feel the vibra (and if your phone is ringing and youre not answering it you like like a dumbass from most peoples perspective).
Cool! Where'd you hear that? Also, does that mean iTunes will be able to transcode all my Apple Lossless stuff?
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
But how would you know the song was from 2000? I don't think that any music player puts the year on the song by default!
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
So obviously those Macfags will care about the next iTurd-whatever, too.
You'd buy a turd with the Apple logo, RDFed Macfag.
Nokia used to make a lot of paper-related and other products (cables, TV's, etc. - Nokia brand boots are still an icon here in Finland),but those products are not made by Nokia anymore. They may be sold under the Nokia brand in some cases (don't know for sure) but they are definitely _not_ made by Nokia itself.
Well, I'll admit I didn't know that. My point was more that it took an amazing effort, and energy, not to mention time and money, to shift the company's direction and go from no knowledge in the field to "market leader", whereas the (G?)GP seems to think Steve will wave a magic wand and from nowhere at Macworld will come an Apple cell phone that'll wipe the field.
I honestly just scrolled through my library until I found two songs with the same title. While I can understand why you think I don't know the music in my library, there have been many times where a bit of a chorus will echo in my mind or I'll remember how a small portion of a song goes. My example above involved Björk and the Red Hot Chili Peppers, who are rather distinct. I've got three songs named "Angel." Four titled "Blind." What about those times you know what band a song is by but not the album? The iPod interface makes that easy, too.
And, let's face it, music is homogenized enough these days that you can't really blame me for getting things mixed up. =)
Really, I'm not interested in operating system flamewars; Yes, Linux meets some people's needs better than OS X, but the reverse is also true (same with Windows XP in place of either of those choices.) None of the three are equivalent: they aren't interchangeable, and there are reasons why you might need any one of them in particular and substituting any of the others isn't a viable alternative.
Whether the windows system is, in practice, more efficient and whether the UI is "better" is something that will vary from user-to-user (and depend, largely, on the users past computing experience.) If the built-in applications aren't the ones you need they are irrelevant, and only a small minority of users care about a software development environment.
Did you really just call a stranger's grandmother a retard?
Way to make a point and have yourself taken seriously, jackass.
Do you get invited ANYWHERE? Or are you just a fucking buzzkill everywhere you go, sulking in the corner thinking about how superior you are to all the other people having fun?
2 words: Smart Playlists.
Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
> If you build it, they will come. If it's white - shiny metal, or has a click wheel, the people will buy it for the cool-factor alone.
Heh, and if it's black, they'll gladly pay an extra $150.
What if someone wrote an article about a known hot topic that was designed to simply start an argument?
I ended up with the SonyEricsson s710a. No radio, can't listen to music over the bluetooth, and limited to a 128MB Duo Mem stick, but it's still pretty nice. And easy enough to just plug the mem stick into my reader and manage the files. I haven't even tried out the sync software that came with it. I had a horrible experience with thier Mini Disc softwear, don't want to deal with anything else of theres.
But now I'm screwed because Cingular's service is crap where I live (in a major metro area...) and they obviously don't care.
This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...