Oh, btw, good job there on your act of pretending to be "above the fray", and acting like you have helpful remarks.
Nevermind of course, that you just told me that, at best, I have to go through a convoluted process just to send a damn picture to someone from an iPhoto album. Let's see, shrink iPhoto down on my tiny screen, shrink down the email message, "drag" one over to the inside of the email so it's at the appropriate place among the text, send the email, hear back the the photos weren't interspersed like I asked...
As for expecting iPhoto to have an "Export to iChat" function? Well, first that's the wrong use of the word "Export" which has a formal meaning in most programs. Second of all, iChat isn't really a common target for images. It has an interface to change your buddy icon, but how often is that needed? Should iPhoto also have "Send to TextEdit" just because you can paste images into documents?
huh huh, yeah man, good point, that would be as ridiculously stupid as PhotoBooth having an option that opens the displayed image in iPhoto.
Or, if all you want is what you see on the screen, just switch to fullscreen, pause at the frame you want and press Command-Shift-3 to take a screenshot. Why are you digging through the Finder? Because you don't realize there's a simple way, and you didn't bother to find out. Some clever Googling can help you - don't be so quick to assume.
We still haven't established an easy way to frame capture, remember? The best it has to offer is to *add* a clip, that I *don't wan't*, which deceives iPhoto into believing my project has been edited, and then show it in finder, and then move it and rename it, and then delete the clip. Fun, fun, fun!!!!! Of *course* that's why there shouldn't be an "export frame" option!
So go ahead, keep it up, keep your head firmly buried in the sand, and just keep wishing wishing wishing *REALLY* hard that Stevie will come back and return all those h/js.
Oops, you forgot to explain how to record what's going on in the screen (and perhaps what the microphone hears) into a video file so I don't have to hunt through Mac's non-helpful help menu to find out how.
Before I get to recording that proof (and yes, it exists, your pretending not to see is just a delay tactic), I want to point out that your 2-clicks claim is indeed a lie. Remember, my goal is to have the still in a FOLDER of my choice, with a NAME of my choice. Right clicking and choosing to add a clip with that still, is NOT my goal. All it does it create a file with a non-unique name and in a useless place. It does take more than two clicks to do that. Worse, it makes my project (and you haven't said a single thing about this yet, not even your usual dismissive remark) appear to have been edited, when I *haven't* (the new clip must be deleted) and I don't *want* to edit it. I merely want to extract the stills.
You can hem and haw and rationalize around this, but it's still there -- yep, even in Leopard, the ultra-mature OS version that has been out for a FULL two months.
Also, "undarken" is a valid term.
Finally, do you really think that if a grandmoter clicked the "rules" option after going into preferences, she'd be able to easily figure out how to make it go away?
The reason I provided a "badly angled" video rather than a screenshot was to prove to you that the menu came about the way I claimed. A screenshot can be modified so that menu appears to be where it never actually would appear. Now, if you can't see that the mail rule window was spiling over into the dock, and that the cancel/ok buttons weren't available to use, you're lying. I will, however, later today, provide you with the screenshots.
The video could be better angled if I did a video directly of the screen, but I notice in all your zeal to tell me how easy it is to do screen shots, you can't easily explain that necessary part to me.
As for Leopard:
1) How does the existence of a newer version prove that these flaws have been removed? 2) Why does it take the fifth version of the tenth operating system (~3rd sustaining video editing) to do something so obvious, when all Mac fans claim that Apple is "expert" at interface design, just, just, top of the line? 3) Are you really going to rest on "Your complaint was totally valid up to October 2007, but hey, who the hell expected a good inteface in *that* time?"
I will concede that you cannot do #2 with only one click (OMG, it takes two), but that does not translate as "Mac OS X's interface sucks".
Okay, first, it is a LIE that saving stills takes "OMG" two clicks. Rather, I have to add the FALSE information to iMovie that my project has been modified, and I have to do quite a lot of clicking to get the still and put them where I want them with the names I want.
Yes, these complaints constitute POOR design because they add untold frustration. Imagine what it's like for Grandma trying to undarken her mail subject lines, or getting locked in Mail because she was dumb enough to open a mail rule window that spills onto the dock that she hasn't learned how to move. Imagine how much unnecessary crap I have to do get stills and how it makes the "modification" status of my videos a lie. Imagine how much frustration there is for me to have just modified a picture and now have no clear way to upload it since it won't drag.
1. Well, I can make the video again, and show better precision. Would you believe me then? 2. My claim is that the interface is poor. I have laid out what a good interface would be. Mac does not meet that. That substantiates my claim that Mac's interface sucks. It does not contradict me to show that hey, maybe after the fifth edition, they'll add an easy obvious feature that signficantly improves the interface. My claim is that the interface NOW is bad.
Here is a good interface.
-Right click on frame. -Export frame as [name], where I want.
Here is what I actually get:
-Right click on frame. -Add frame as still to video. -WARNING WARNING YOUR PROJECT HAS BEEN MODIFIED, THAT TOTALLY F'S EVERYTHING UP, YOU'LL HAVE TO REUPLOAD, BLAH BLAH BLAH -Show frame in finder. -Rename. -Cut, navigate through finder, paste where I want. -Repeat for every still that I want. -Delete still clips from project. -Project still thinks it has been changed and all indicators show it needs to be reuploaded, even though I never once wanted to change it at all.
Now, justify that interface decision for a company that prides itself on the user interface.
3. No, it isn't aware, and no it didn't. It's blindingly clear from the clip you already saw: the window extends into the dock. End of story.
As for the rest:
-What does it matter that I can upgrade? Is the problem fixed in the newer version? Why all the whining about how I haven't fellated Steve Jobs with all my friends because he wants me to get Leopard? It came out, what, two months ago?
As for mail:
Me: The mail client, the one Mac designed with its ultra advanced user interface design philosophy, has a critical interface problem. You: No it doesn't because you could use another mail client.
Ah, okay, maybe if I speak German I'll get through.
Sigh. Look, I realize now you're just trolling. I'm kinda sorry I tried to help you.
Kein trollen. Informizieren.
have no idea how the menu item is called on your system because I'm on a german system, and you're presumably on an US system, so my menu items are in german and yours are in english. I see it is too much to ask to simply right-click on an image and see for yourself.
Du beschreibtest eine Option, "Original zeigen". *Welches* Original? Ich habe das Bild modifiziert! Das bedeutet, *nicht Original*! Was ist original ueber ein Bild, das schon modifiziert wurde?
Siehe meine Video. Die Option existiert nicht, wenn man tut, was ich getan habe.
It was just an example. Works like that with every other app, I chose FTP because it is a popular application for file uploading. What the hell is wrong with you...
Noch schwerer. Ich habe schon beschreibt, wieviel mehr ich machen muss, wenn ich Dein Method benutze.
Okay, I'd love to make a video in response again, but:
1) You didn't follow the protocols I did. See here. I took a photo in PhotoBooth, then edited in iPhoto. Did you do that? No, you looked at existing iPhoto albums. If you actually follow the steps I did, that option doesn't come up.
2) No shit, Sherlock. The question was, why do I have to add a whole new clip to my movie, that I'm just going to have to delete anyway, THEN find that still in Finder, THEN rename it, then move it, then delete it, when all I should have to do is right-click and save where I want it, with the name I want?
3) Yes, it's possible for me to, eventually, despite being on a Mac for the first time in ages, figure out how to move the Dock, something I should never really have to do, in order to get out of a window within the mail client. But why do I have to learn how to move the dock in order to change mail rule? What kind of thinking went into that? I showed you that there's no option to scroll down on that window, despite it being tall and the fact that it can get taller. I showed you you can't even move it up!
I'm really interested in knowing how it's "good user interface design" to have to kind of dependency.
I'm also interested in knowing how my not upgrading to Leopard to be like all my sheep Mac buddies has anything to do with my complaint.
First, I'm SO sorry for describing the dock as a bar.
Mail: Thanks for admitting my point. When trying to unfuck-up the appearance, I CAN'T EVEN GET OUT OF A WINDOW UNTIL I FIGURE OUT HOW TO MOVE SOMETHING I DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW TO DESCRIBE YET. If you don't see how that's a user interface problem, I really don't know what to tell you. Why are MacBooks getting shipped with something that can lock them inside a window like that?
iMovie: I already have a real mouse, you just missed the point again.
You still haven't explained why iMovie doesn't let me just right click on a frame and let me export it with a name I like. I searched for stills, and a result came up promising to tell me how to make them, and it told me THE EXACT SAME THING I LEARNED THE OTHER WAY. Specifically, that I have to go the roundabout way of making a NEW clip with that as a still picture, and THEN go dig it out of finder, each of them having the same name.
iPhoto: Unfortunately, I still can't export that way, OR move the picture like you suggested. After getting home, I documented the problem in a video. However, afterward, I found out the problem was that I have to close out of iPhoto, then re-open it, and then go to the albums again. Dragging the photo doesn't work before that, nor is there an export option. I guess I was supposed ot know that.
ichat -- Same problem as in iPhoto, the photo couldn't be moved until I came back to the album by clicking on the right parts of the side menu.
Yeah, I can get a tutor, but you're missing the point. Macs are supposed to be easy to use. LOCKING ME INTO MAIL BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW HOW TO MOVE THE DOCK IS NOT EASY TO USE. Making me go through some convoluted process just to export a damn still is not easy to use. Not letting me immedately move around stuff I edited in iPhoto is not easy to use. Yeah, there's some stuff you just have to learn, but there's also stuff that's inexcusable. Everything here is the latter.
Here's the documentation of my problems: YouTube (may be a while before approved)
DING DING DING DING DING! Maybe that should clue you in on the problem: that stuff is popping up and annoying me, and *there's no clear way to get rid of it*. Yes, you don't know what was going on. NEITHER DID I, and I already told you everything I know.
The problem is not the "read/unread" distinction. Give me a little credit here, since you're trying to make me the Windows fanboy. That must mean I know about bolding unread messages.
The problem was that the background of all subject lines was dark for some reason. It annoyed me, and I couldn't change it, and I doubt you'd do any better than I did. (wait, wait, I know, I must have gone into some hidden options somewhere and added that, right?)
Did you consider moving/resizing the Mail window, if it's obscuring the dock ? And I'm not sure what this "options window" is either - you are sure you're using Mail.app that comes with OSX, aren't you ?
You're really testing my patience, aren't you?
-The mail app is not obscuring the doc. -Yes, it's the one that came with OSX, unless some elves replace the one that was on the left side of the lower (lauch) bar that was there on first bootup. -The "options" window is one of the windows for setting mail filters. -I cannot move that window, and it spills over onto the launch bar!!!! I cannot scroll up and down on it either. I'm supposed to somehow click stuff which is right on top of the launch bar, which, oops, actually just launches the program on the bar at that location. Good luck justifying that user interface design, dude.
Your own ignorance of the extensive use of right-clicking within Apple's OS and apps is not a good argument.
I'm not ignorant of the use of right-clicking. I'm ignorant of why they decided to make the help option tell you the HARDER way to do stuff, and the way that's impossible for disabled people. (Who cares about *them*, right?)
I've never used iMovie, but the response from someone above seems reasonable "save frame as" would imply you can both save a given frame, and name it what you want...
I already told you I right-clicked and it wasn't there. That was the very first thing I tried.
As for the menu item, it does exist. I've just used it. Just in case you're being incredibly dense, the option is "Show File", not "Show in Finder".
Ah, okay, so in your opinion, it's "good user interface design" to make the term "show file" when using iPhoto, but to call it "show in Finder" when doing the exact same thing in PhotoBooth, and I'm supposed to know that "show file" means "Show in Finder" rather than "display the file to me", which it's already doing.
No, you don't have to store anything anywhere. Again, it was an example. I'd expected you to delete the file from the desktop immediately afterwards.
LOL!!!! So, to summarize, SOP for uploading files is to:
-resize the window of the program I'm using -Drag the file out of it and onto the desktop. -open safari and resize it so I can see the original program, safari, and the file -drag the file into safari and into the upload box -upload it -delete the file from the desktop
Drag it to the image well in the top-right of the buddy-list window
The same drag/drop works from photo-booth by the way...
Nope, I already tried those, which is why I had to do all the frustrating other stuff.
would suggest that just asking is more likely to get positive responses than ranting.
My goal is to show the frustration macs subject their users to. Suggesting that I ask for help misses the point.
Yeah, I think it's generally called a secondary click
Yes, I Know how to right-click on a track-pad and two-button mouse, thanks. Despite the complete lack of mention of this option in any help menu.
I'm not sure what you're doing, but a lot of people claim this because it is there. Just checking... right-click on image, show original, yep. It's there.
*what* is there? You guys are being remarkably inconsistent. One of you says there's a "show in finder" option, another says it's a "show file" option, and now you're saying it's supposed to be "show original". (and of course I'm supposed to know "show original" means "show the location, in finder, of the file you just MODIFIED from the original)
If you want to upload your image, you can drag the image to an FTP application or to a file upload form element right from within iPhoto.
Okay, I don't *normally* use an FTP service when uploadint to photobucket, but I guess I was supposed to configure an FTP server. Must have missed that flyer when the MacBook arrived.
So, now your suggestion is that when I get to the website where I want to upload the photo, I'm suppose to (whilst wasting a lot of time) resize my little safari window, then go back to iPhoto, resize it so I can see it and safari at the same time, then drag it to the file slot, HELPFULLY avoiding that BURDENSOME step of actually learning where the hell the file is on my computer.
GREAT interface design, let me tell you. MUCH easier than clicking browse --> folder I was just working in pops up --> double click --> click.
No, you're not. You can switch applications, use Exposé...
Yeah, good point. Going through all that crap is MUCH easier than "save as".
Sorry, maybe this is just my latent autism speaking, but, I see:
Oh yes, I forgot: people who prefer using one hand (or are disabled losers) need not apply. as being critical of Apple's attitude toward the disabled, NOT of the disabled.
And, consistently, I see:
So your saying that if your an average person (including that UbuntuDupe loser) you'll find ctrl-clicking inconvenient? as being critical of the listener's attitude toward UbuntuDupe, NOT of UbuntuDupe.
I guess it's that I automatically see "including that ___ loser" as being sort of a mocking aside, not a direct attack on ___.
Yes, we can debate all day about whether that "different" functionality should or should not have been obvious or easy after X time. I'm going to focus on the things that are *inexcusably* bad here.
-email:
Why is not possible to find out how remove the (ridiculous) darkening on the subject lines? I did every search term to no avail.
*Within* an options window in the email, why is the options window so huge that it covers the default bottom launch bar AND I can't resize that window or scroll up and down within the window, FORCING me to figure out how to REMOVE THE WHOLE BOTTOM LAUNCH BAR just to alter one option in email?
-iMovie
Why is Apple going out of its way to hide the existence of options for unwanted one-handed people? Why do they think ctrl-click is easier for two-handed people, than right-clicking?
Why go through the trouble of allowing me to "glide" through the movie by moving my cursor over the panels, yet not let me export a frame when I *do* right click on the right one?
Why can't I choose where to save the file that makes up one of the still frames?
-iPhoto
I don't want to drag the file to the desktop. I want it in a logical place where I can easily get to it and upload it. Why does it make that so hard?
And, as I told you before, right-clicking (SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! SHUT UP!!!!!!! THAT DOESN'T EXIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) *did not* bring up any option to "show in finder".
-iChat
Ah, okay, so Apple wants me to store every file I'd ever want to make as a buddy icon, right on the desktop somewhere? And why do I have to drag it to the desktop as an intermediate step? Why not straight from iPhoto?
***
You're right, I am, in a way, new to Mac (once you ignore the youngest 15 years of my life). That still doesn't explain why I can't find *in the help options* how to do these things.
Don't have my MacBook in front of me, but, again, I was looking for a way to export the file I just made or show it in Finder (anything to access in some way other than the damn album!), so please, give me a teensy weensy bit of credit here. I may have seen and chosen a "show file" option, which promptly "showed" the file -- as a picture. I don't want the picture. I want its location so I can upload it to an internet website. There was certainly no export option.
Hey, maybe it's just because I'm using the '07 version, and not the '08 version where they advanced those innovations.
So let me get this straight, I didn't want an answer to my problem, but I did want to bitch, but the problem doesn't exist?
Yes, I do want a solution -- ONE THAT EXISTS. I will try on the mac forums I guess, but it's important for others to know how crappy an interface that is, where I can barely even use a photo I just cropped.
How does that make me look arrogant? I was criticizing Apple's going miles out of their way to make it harder for the disabled. Hell, ctrl-clicking (as opposed to right-clicking) is more inconvenient for me, AND I'M LUCKY ENOUGH TO HAVE TWO HANDS!
Hey Apple, I know it's hard to accomodate certain disabilities. But could you maybe not *actively seek out* ways to make it harder for the disabled? Is that asking too much?
But where's the picture file? Um, show-in-Finder option? Nope.
um, yep.
in fact 2 options: show edited photo in finder or show a backed-up original.
Sorry, a lot of people claim this, but it just isn't there. I right-click (OOOPS!!!! not supposed to talk about right-clicking, it's a mac, all mac users have to have two hands so they can ctrl-click instead, if you're disabled and only have one hand, apple doesn't want your business you freak!) and that option doesn't show up, and it's not in any menu. I don't see anything about showing a backed up original.
you can also use export it if you want to resize or change format.
I *did* export it -- to iPhoto, where it doesn't seem to let me do anything with it except look at it in some useless album. I didn't think of dragging it to the desktop, but what would be the point? I don't want it in the desktop, I want it in a file I can easily refer to on upload without cluttering the desktop. Apparently, I'm supposed to go through the painstaking process of downsizing the iPhoto window, pulling up finder, and then dragging it to the right folder. MUCH easer than two clicks on "save as", right?
Okay, that's fair. I'll give you that. A slot loading drive: great idea, great interface, great design.
Now we're going to list BAD interface designs on the MacBook:
-email client: Why the hell are the subject lines all darkened? Nothing in help about this. Ah, must be a "mail rule". Oh, there it is, I'll just turn it off. Wait, that option is all the way at the bottom of the screen, on top of the program launch icons. *click* No, I didn't want to load that program. Okay, I'll scroll down so that the button is in the middle screen and I can click it without launching another app. Wait, no scroll option? ****! Okay, how do I turn the lower app launch bar off? *search search search* Okay, there we go. Wait, they're still darkened. Oh, okay, I've got to tell it to apply to all. [finds option somewhere] Now, how do I get the bottom bar to come back...
-iMovie: I want to export some video captures from a video I made. Let's see, right click on the point in the video I want to use, where's the export-frame option? Nowhere. Okay, help search: "video capture". Nothing. Okay, "frame". Ahah, 8th option, how to make a frame into a clip. Closest option. I go to the frame I want and then ctrl-click it. Hm, OH, wait, I can right-click too! Why hide this option from me? Oh yes, I forgot: people who prefer using one hand (or are disabled losers) need not apply.
I grab the frame, and it makes me put it as a non-moving clip somewhere in the video. So, I do a few of these from different pictures. Now where are they? Okay, I get to dig through finder again. Now, let me move them all to one folder for easy upload. Wait, the second one I moved (and the rest) have the same name as the first. Okay, so let me choose a different name on moving it. I can't? Okay, fine, I'll rename them all, THEN move them.
-I took a photo of myself in PhotoBooth. Now I want to crop it and upload it. Okay, click on iPhoto. Crop image. Great, now I have it in an album. But where's the picture file? Um, show-in-Finder option? Nope. Save cropped picture somewhere? Nope. I have to go deep into the directory, photos->iphoto library->various weird folder -> copy it to a more useful place, then upload.
-Now I want to make the cropped image my ichat buddy icon. Drag to chat pic? No, that would imply interoperability. Export to ichat? No. I have to go to the buddy icon and then load it from the useful place I moved it to.
That's a very rigorous analysis you've subjected the results to, but one of my freaks above (you'll notice because he's been modded to five) already linked to an even more thorough statistical analysis of the results, that controlled for even more of the possible explanations you mentioned, and STILL found correlation at the p less than.001 level.
That is, there is a 1/1000 chance that it's just a coincidence.
This was on the news, and was attributed to 'human error'. Meaning some nonagenarian didn't bother to report those because there was literally a handful (or less).
In absolute terms, it was a handful: 31. In absolute terms, it was VERY relevant: that number is 7% of the total for that precinct. I know because I checked up on that on one of the vote-watch sites that listed by precinct. I apologize, however, for not knowing how to quickly get back to that so I can post a link; I'm sure you will discover the same, however.
I don't have to tell you what adding 7% of the voters to Ron Paul's *aggregate* NH total would be, do I?
And supporting Ron Paul is great and idealistic and all, but a complete waste. He has 0% chance of winning anything, especially after those racist newsletters came out with his name on them, regardless if he wrote them.
You think this is just about making Ron Paul president? No. This is a long-term fight to move the nation in a more libertarian direction. This surge in grassroots support (compared to what libertarian-minded candidates used to get) is a culmination of all the "internet-only" support the libertarian movement built up beginning in the late 90s, as those younger voters aged, and it's only getting bigger.
The more publicity we can get for libertarian ideas, the better, even and especially of Ron Paul doesn't win. I would know. I'm a local organizer.
The news about the racist remarks worries me, of course, but I think Paul is still at the stage where "any publicity is good" esp. as he gets endorsements from those minorities who have worked with him.
but I think that it's not quite errant thinking either. The concept is Reduce what you can, offset what you can't.
And that's where I deem the environmentalists to be demonstrably wrong, and the source of all the fallacies that bleed into the rest of the discussion.
The concept should be "undo the environmental harm of all your actions". Then, if you enjoy an activity while still being able to marshal the resources to erase its impact on the environment (i.e. pay for others to undo it), you should be in the clear, whether or not others deem it necessary.
Like I've said in the previous discussions, you simply can't know what is "wasteful" (and therefore what I can or can't reduce). Efficiency is benefit provided per cost (including environmental cost) expended. I accept that you can tell me the cost expended, but the benefit provided exists purely in my mind.
Because environmentalists advocate restrictions far more intrusive than simply undoing your damage, their opponents are absolutely right to object to such meddling and paternalism. Remember, emitting carbon (according to environmentalists) hurts the environment and thus you, whether or not I needed to do so. And likewise, a pound of a poor person's carbon is just as harmful as a pound of a rich person's carbon. So to justify these restrictions, as posters typically do, on grounds that "your use affects ME", is disingenuous.
Finally, about the windfarm: by itself, all it does is affect the supply curve by making is so that, for any electricity price, the number of units of electricity offered are the same or more. That cannot lead to reduced bad-energy use in the aggregate. You would have to specifically make an arrangement whereby the electrical gird only uses its power in lieu of already-demanded energy. What you (and all environmentalists) need to realize is that we do not live in a static world, where people keep on engaging in the same patterns of activity and resource use, and hey, we just need to satisfy this present pattern and we're all good. People respond to incentives, and your policy needs to account for the changes in incentives people face.
My dear Warner Bros., why has the DVD of 300 been available for over 6 months, yet it is impossible to purchase or rent online?
Because they're wary of things that would facilitate illegal distribution, like online distribution, and only allow it with reservations.
And why is that? Because if they "rented" it online, they'd have to have really powerful DRM. That, combined with the meatspace-equivalent price point[1] they'd have to use, would anger fans, and make them more likely to violate the terms of the rental (by "recording" the video off their screen). Long story short, no good deed goes unpunished.
[1] Not price, nay, price point. The former would TOTALLY change the meaning of my point and violate the chain of logic at that step.
Yes, but that "something *other* than copying the work" might well turn out to be "copying a copy of the work that someone else already made".
Fine. Rewrite my statement then: "Copy protection is the exact same way. It only needs to be strong enough so that for most people, their utility is maximized by doing something *other* than copying the work, or seeking out an existing, illegally distributed copy of the work."
Question for the record companies: If there are so many photocopiers in bookshops, why didn't people just photocopy Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows instead of buying it?
Because the legal market price of the book was of lower disutility than obtaining such a copy and incurring associated risks. The disutility of the latter would be even higher if such copiers had additional barriers.
Slashdot Mirror
Oh, btw, good job there on your act of pretending to be "above the fray", and acting like you have helpful remarks.
Nevermind of course, that you just told me that, at best, I have to go through a convoluted process just to send a damn picture to someone from an iPhoto album. Let's see, shrink iPhoto down on my tiny screen, shrink down the email message, "drag" one over to the inside of the email so it's at the appropriate place among the text, send the email, hear back the the photos weren't interspersed like I asked...
As for expecting iPhoto to have an "Export to iChat" function? Well, first that's the wrong use of the word "Export" which has a formal meaning in most programs. Second of all, iChat isn't really a common target for images. It has an interface to change your buddy icon, but how often is that needed? Should iPhoto also have "Send to TextEdit" just because you can paste images into documents?
huh huh, yeah man, good point, that would be as ridiculously stupid as PhotoBooth having an option that opens the displayed image in iPhoto.
Or, if all you want is what you see on the screen, just switch to fullscreen, pause at the frame you want and press Command-Shift-3 to take a screenshot. Why are you digging through the Finder? Because you don't realize there's a simple way, and you didn't bother to find out. Some clever Googling can help you - don't be so quick to assume.
We still haven't established an easy way to frame capture, remember? The best it has to offer is to *add* a clip, that I *don't wan't*, which deceives iPhoto into believing my project has been edited, and then show it in finder, and then move it and rename it, and then delete the clip. Fun, fun, fun!!!!! Of *course* that's why there shouldn't be an "export frame" option!
So go ahead, keep it up, keep your head firmly buried in the sand, and just keep wishing wishing wishing *REALLY* hard that Stevie will come back and return all those h/js.
Oops, you forgot to explain how to record what's going on in the screen (and perhaps what the microphone hears) into a video file so I don't have to hunt through Mac's non-helpful help menu to find out how.
Before I get to recording that proof (and yes, it exists, your pretending not to see is just a delay tactic), I want to point out that your 2-clicks claim is indeed a lie. Remember, my goal is to have the still in a FOLDER of my choice, with a NAME of my choice. Right clicking and choosing to add a clip with that still, is NOT my goal. All it does it create a file with a non-unique name and in a useless place. It does take more than two clicks to do that. Worse, it makes my project (and you haven't said a single thing about this yet, not even your usual dismissive remark) appear to have been edited, when I *haven't* (the new clip must be deleted) and I don't *want* to edit it. I merely want to extract the stills.
You can hem and haw and rationalize around this, but it's still there -- yep, even in Leopard, the ultra-mature OS version that has been out for a FULL two months.
Also, "undarken" is a valid term.
Finally, do you really think that if a grandmoter clicked the "rules" option after going into preferences, she'd be able to easily figure out how to make it go away?
The reason I provided a "badly angled" video rather than a screenshot was to prove to you that the menu came about the way I claimed. A screenshot can be modified so that menu appears to be where it never actually would appear. Now, if you can't see that the mail rule window was spiling over into the dock, and that the cancel/ok buttons weren't available to use, you're lying. I will, however, later today, provide you with the screenshots.
The video could be better angled if I did a video directly of the screen, but I notice in all your zeal to tell me how easy it is to do screen shots, you can't easily explain that necessary part to me.
As for Leopard:
1) How does the existence of a newer version prove that these flaws have been removed?
2) Why does it take the fifth version of the tenth operating system (~3rd sustaining video editing) to do something so obvious, when all Mac fans claim that Apple is "expert" at interface design, just, just, top of the line?
3) Are you really going to rest on "Your complaint was totally valid up to October 2007, but hey, who the hell expected a good inteface in *that* time?"
I will concede that you cannot do #2 with only one click (OMG, it takes two), but that does not translate as "Mac OS X's interface sucks".
Okay, first, it is a LIE that saving stills takes "OMG" two clicks. Rather, I have to add the FALSE information to iMovie that my project has been modified, and I have to do quite a lot of clicking to get the still and put them where I want them with the names I want.
Yes, these complaints constitute POOR design because they add untold frustration. Imagine what it's like for Grandma trying to undarken her mail subject lines, or getting locked in Mail because she was dumb enough to open a mail rule window that spills onto the dock that she hasn't learned how to move. Imagine how much unnecessary crap I have to do get stills and how it makes the "modification" status of my videos a lie. Imagine how much frustration there is for me to have just modified a picture and now have no clear way to upload it since it won't drag.
So biology professors have a higher genetic fitness than Christian fundamentalists? :-P
1. Well, I can make the video again, and show better precision. Would you believe me then?
2. My claim is that the interface is poor. I have laid out what a good interface would be. Mac does not meet that. That substantiates my claim that Mac's interface sucks. It does not contradict me to show that hey, maybe after the fifth edition, they'll add an easy obvious feature that signficantly improves the interface. My claim is that the interface NOW is bad.
Here is a good interface.
-Right click on frame.
-Export frame as [name], where I want.
Here is what I actually get:
-Right click on frame.
-Add frame as still to video.
-WARNING WARNING YOUR PROJECT HAS BEEN MODIFIED, THAT TOTALLY F'S EVERYTHING UP, YOU'LL HAVE TO REUPLOAD, BLAH BLAH BLAH
-Show frame in finder.
-Rename.
-Cut, navigate through finder, paste where I want.
-Repeat for every still that I want.
-Delete still clips from project.
-Project still thinks it has been changed and all indicators show it needs to be reuploaded, even though I never once wanted to change it at all.
Now, justify that interface decision for a company that prides itself on the user interface.
3. No, it isn't aware, and no it didn't. It's blindingly clear from the clip you already saw: the window extends into the dock. End of story.
As for the rest:
-What does it matter that I can upgrade? Is the problem fixed in the newer version? Why all the whining about how I haven't fellated Steve Jobs with all my friends because he wants me to get Leopard? It came out, what, two months ago?
As for mail:
Me: The mail client, the one Mac designed with its ultra advanced user interface design philosophy, has a critical interface problem.
You: No it doesn't because you could use another mail client.
Where do they even find people like you?
because I'm on a german system
Ah, okay, maybe if I speak German I'll get through.
Sigh. Look, I realize now you're just trolling. I'm kinda sorry I tried to help you.
Kein trollen. Informizieren.
have no idea how the menu item is called on your system because I'm on a german system, and you're presumably on an US system, so my menu items are in german and yours are in english. I see it is too much to ask to simply right-click on an image and see for yourself.
Du beschreibtest eine Option, "Original zeigen". *Welches* Original? Ich habe das Bild modifiziert! Das bedeutet, *nicht Original*! Was ist original ueber ein Bild, das schon modifiziert wurde?
Siehe meine Video. Die Option existiert nicht, wenn man tut, was ich getan habe.
It was just an example. Works like that with every other app, I chose FTP because it is a popular application for file uploading. What the hell is wrong with you...
Noch schwerer. Ich habe schon beschreibt, wieviel mehr ich machen muss, wenn ich Dein Method benutze.
Okay, I'd love to make a video in response again, but:
1) You didn't follow the protocols I did. See here. I took a photo in PhotoBooth, then edited in iPhoto. Did you do that? No, you looked at existing iPhoto albums. If you actually follow the steps I did, that option doesn't come up.
2) No shit, Sherlock. The question was, why do I have to add a whole new clip to my movie, that I'm just going to have to delete anyway, THEN find that still in Finder, THEN rename it, then move it, then delete it, when all I should have to do is right-click and save where I want it, with the name I want?
3) Yes, it's possible for me to, eventually, despite being on a Mac for the first time in ages, figure out how to move the Dock, something I should never really have to do, in order to get out of a window within the mail client. But why do I have to learn how to move the dock in order to change mail rule? What kind of thinking went into that? I showed you that there's no option to scroll down on that window, despite it being tall and the fact that it can get taller. I showed you you can't even move it up!
I'm really interested in knowing how it's "good user interface design" to have to kind of dependency.
I'm also interested in knowing how my not upgrading to Leopard to be like all my sheep Mac buddies has anything to do with my complaint.
Be careful what you wish for -- you just might get it.
The video is live.
First, I'm SO sorry for describing the dock as a bar.
Mail: Thanks for admitting my point. When trying to unfuck-up the appearance, I CAN'T EVEN GET OUT OF A WINDOW UNTIL I FIGURE OUT HOW TO MOVE SOMETHING I DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW TO DESCRIBE YET. If you don't see how that's a user interface problem, I really don't know what to tell you. Why are MacBooks getting shipped with something that can lock them inside a window like that?
iMovie: I already have a real mouse, you just missed the point again.
You still haven't explained why iMovie doesn't let me just right click on a frame and let me export it with a name I like. I searched for stills, and a result came up promising to tell me how to make them, and it told me THE EXACT SAME THING I LEARNED THE OTHER WAY. Specifically, that I have to go the roundabout way of making a NEW clip with that as a still picture, and THEN go dig it out of finder, each of them having the same name.
iPhoto: Unfortunately, I still can't export that way, OR move the picture like you suggested. After getting home, I documented the problem in a video. However, afterward, I found out the problem was that I have to close out of iPhoto, then re-open it, and then go to the albums again. Dragging the photo doesn't work before that, nor is there an export option. I guess I was supposed ot know that.
ichat -- Same problem as in iPhoto, the photo couldn't be moved until I came back to the album by clicking on the right parts of the side menu.
Yeah, I can get a tutor, but you're missing the point. Macs are supposed to be easy to use. LOCKING ME INTO MAIL BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW HOW TO MOVE THE DOCK IS NOT EASY TO USE. Making me go through some convoluted process just to export a damn still is not easy to use. Not letting me immedately move around stuff I edited in iPhoto is not easy to use. Yeah, there's some stuff you just have to learn, but there's also stuff that's inexcusable. Everything here is the latter.
Here's the documentation of my problems: YouTube (may be a while before approved)
I still have no idea what you mean by this.
DING DING DING DING DING! Maybe that should clue you in on the problem: that stuff is popping up and annoying me, and *there's no clear way to get rid of it*. Yes, you don't know what was going on. NEITHER DID I, and I already told you everything I know.
The problem is not the "read/unread" distinction. Give me a little credit here, since you're trying to make me the Windows fanboy. That must mean I know about bolding unread messages.
The problem was that the background of all subject lines was dark for some reason. It annoyed me, and I couldn't change it, and I doubt you'd do any better than I did. (wait, wait, I know, I must have gone into some hidden options somewhere and added that, right?)
Did you consider moving/resizing the Mail window, if it's obscuring the dock ? And I'm not sure what this "options window" is either - you are sure you're using Mail.app that comes with OSX, aren't you ?
You're really testing my patience, aren't you?
-The mail app is not obscuring the doc.
-Yes, it's the one that came with OSX, unless some elves replace the one that was on the left side of the lower (lauch) bar that was there on first bootup.
-The "options" window is one of the windows for setting mail filters.
-I cannot move that window, and it spills over onto the launch bar!!!! I cannot scroll up and down on it either. I'm supposed to somehow click stuff which is right on top of the launch bar, which, oops, actually just launches the program on the bar at that location. Good luck justifying that user interface design, dude.
Your own ignorance of the extensive use of right-clicking within Apple's OS and apps is not a good argument.
I'm not ignorant of the use of right-clicking. I'm ignorant of why they decided to make the help option tell you the HARDER way to do stuff, and the way that's impossible for disabled people. (Who cares about *them*, right?)
I've never used iMovie, but the response from someone above seems reasonable "save frame as" would imply you can both save a given frame, and name it what you want...
I already told you I right-clicked and it wasn't there. That was the very first thing I tried.
As for the menu item, it does exist. I've just used it. Just in case you're being incredibly dense, the option is "Show File", not "Show in Finder".
Ah, okay, so in your opinion, it's "good user interface design" to make the term "show file" when using iPhoto, but to call it "show in Finder" when doing the exact same thing in PhotoBooth, and I'm supposed to know that "show file" means "Show in Finder" rather than "display the file to me", which it's already doing.
No, you don't have to store anything anywhere. Again, it was an example. I'd expected you to delete the file from the desktop immediately afterwards.
LOL!!!! So, to summarize, SOP for uploading files is to:
-resize the window of the program I'm using
-Drag the file out of it and onto the desktop.
-open safari and resize it so I can see the original program, safari, and the file
-drag the file into safari and into the upload box
-upload it
-delete the file from the desktop
Drag it to the image well in the top-right of the buddy-list window
The same drag/drop works from photo-booth by the way...
Nope, I already tried those, which is why I had to do all the frustrating other stuff.
would suggest that just asking is more likely to get positive responses than ranting.
...
My goal is to show the frustration macs subject their users to. Suggesting that I ask for help misses the point.
Yeah, I think it's generally called a secondary click
Yes, I Know how to right-click on a track-pad and two-button mouse, thanks. Despite the complete lack of mention of this option in any help menu.
I'm not sure what you're doing, but a lot of people claim this because it is there. Just checking... right-click on image, show original, yep. It's there.
*what* is there? You guys are being remarkably inconsistent. One of you says there's a "show in finder" option, another says it's a "show file" option, and now you're saying it's supposed to be "show original". (and of course I'm supposed to know "show original" means "show the location, in finder, of the file you just MODIFIED from the original)
If you want to upload your image, you can drag the image to an FTP application or to a file upload form element right from within iPhoto.
Okay, I don't *normally* use an FTP service when uploadint to photobucket, but I guess I was supposed to configure an FTP server. Must have missed that flyer when the MacBook arrived.
So, now your suggestion is that when I get to the website where I want to upload the photo, I'm suppose to (whilst wasting a lot of time) resize my little safari window, then go back to iPhoto, resize it so I can see it and safari at the same time, then drag it to the file slot, HELPFULLY avoiding that BURDENSOME step of actually learning where the hell the file is on my computer.
GREAT interface design, let me tell you. MUCH easier than clicking browse --> folder I was just working in pops up --> double click --> click.
No, you're not. You can switch applications, use Exposé
Yeah, good point. Going through all that crap is MUCH easier than "save as".
And, consistently, I see: So your saying that if your an average person (including that UbuntuDupe loser) you'll find ctrl-clicking inconvenient? as being critical of the listener's attitude toward UbuntuDupe, NOT of UbuntuDupe.
I guess it's that I automatically see "including that ___ loser" as being sort of a mocking aside, not a direct attack on ___.
Yes, we can debate all day about whether that "different" functionality should or should not have been obvious or easy after X time. I'm going to focus on the things that are *inexcusably* bad here.
-email:
Why is not possible to find out how remove the (ridiculous) darkening on the subject lines? I did every search term to no avail.
*Within* an options window in the email, why is the options window so huge that it covers the default bottom launch bar AND I can't resize that window or scroll up and down within the window, FORCING me to figure out how to REMOVE THE WHOLE BOTTOM LAUNCH BAR just to alter one option in email?
-iMovie
Why is Apple going out of its way to hide the existence of options for unwanted one-handed people? Why do they think ctrl-click is easier for two-handed people, than right-clicking?
Why go through the trouble of allowing me to "glide" through the movie by moving my cursor over the panels, yet not let me export a frame when I *do* right click on the right one?
Why can't I choose where to save the file that makes up one of the still frames?
-iPhoto
I don't want to drag the file to the desktop. I want it in a logical place where I can easily get to it and upload it. Why does it make that so hard?
And, as I told you before, right-clicking (SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! SHUT UP!!!!!!! THAT DOESN'T EXIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) *did not* bring up any option to "show in finder".
-iChat
Ah, okay, so Apple wants me to store every file I'd ever want to make as a buddy icon, right on the desktop somewhere? And why do I have to drag it to the desktop as an intermediate step? Why not straight from iPhoto?
***
You're right, I am, in a way, new to Mac (once you ignore the youngest 15 years of my life). That still doesn't explain why I can't find *in the help options* how to do these things.
Don't have my MacBook in front of me, but, again, I was looking for a way to export the file I just made or show it in Finder (anything to access in some way other than the damn album!), so please, give me a teensy weensy bit of credit here. I may have seen and chosen a "show file" option, which promptly "showed" the file -- as a picture. I don't want the picture. I want its location so I can upload it to an internet website. There was certainly no export option.
Hey, maybe it's just because I'm using the '07 version, and not the '08 version where they advanced those innovations.
So let me get this straight, I didn't want an answer to my problem, but I did want to bitch, but the problem doesn't exist?
Yes, I do want a solution -- ONE THAT EXISTS. I will try on the mac forums I guess, but it's important for others to know how crappy an interface that is, where I can barely even use a photo I just cropped.
How does that make me look arrogant? I was criticizing Apple's going miles out of their way to make it harder for the disabled. Hell, ctrl-clicking (as opposed to right-clicking) is more inconvenient for me, AND I'M LUCKY ENOUGH TO HAVE TWO HANDS!
Hey Apple, I know it's hard to accomodate certain disabilities. But could you maybe not *actively seek out* ways to make it harder for the disabled? Is that asking too much?
But where's the picture file? Um, show-in-Finder option? Nope.
um, yep.
in fact 2 options: show edited photo in finder or show a backed-up original.
Sorry, a lot of people claim this, but it just isn't there. I right-click (OOOPS!!!! not supposed to talk about right-clicking, it's a mac, all mac users have to have two hands so they can ctrl-click instead, if you're disabled and only have one hand, apple doesn't want your business you freak!) and that option doesn't show up, and it's not in any menu. I don't see anything about showing a backed up original.
you can also use export it if you want to resize or change format.
I *did* export it -- to iPhoto, where it doesn't seem to let me do anything with it except look at it in some useless album. I didn't think of dragging it to the desktop, but what would be the point? I don't want it in the desktop, I want it in a file I can easily refer to on upload without cluttering the desktop. Apparently, I'm supposed to go through the painstaking process of downsizing the iPhoto window, pulling up finder, and then dragging it to the right folder. MUCH easer than two clicks on "save as", right?
Okay, that's fair. I'll give you that. A slot loading drive: great idea, great interface, great design.
Now we're going to list BAD interface designs on the MacBook:
-email client: Why the hell are the subject lines all darkened? Nothing in help about this. Ah, must be a "mail rule". Oh, there it is, I'll just turn it off. Wait, that option is all the way at the bottom of the screen, on top of the program launch icons. *click* No, I didn't want to load that program. Okay, I'll scroll down so that the button is in the middle screen and I can click it without launching another app. Wait, no scroll option? ****! Okay, how do I turn the lower app launch bar off? *search search search* Okay, there we go. Wait, they're still darkened. Oh, okay, I've got to tell it to apply to all. [finds option somewhere] Now, how do I get the bottom bar to come back...
-iMovie: I want to export some video captures from a video I made. Let's see, right click on the point in the video I want to use, where's the export-frame option? Nowhere. Okay, help search: "video capture". Nothing. Okay, "frame". Ahah, 8th option, how to make a frame into a clip. Closest option. I go to the frame I want and then ctrl-click it. Hm, OH, wait, I can right-click too! Why hide this option from me? Oh yes, I forgot: people who prefer using one hand (or are disabled losers) need not apply.
I grab the frame, and it makes me put it as a non-moving clip somewhere in the video. So, I do a few of these from different pictures. Now where are they? Okay, I get to dig through finder again. Now, let me move them all to one folder for easy upload. Wait, the second one I moved (and the rest) have the same name as the first. Okay, so let me choose a different name on moving it. I can't? Okay, fine, I'll rename them all, THEN move them.
-I took a photo of myself in PhotoBooth. Now I want to crop it and upload it. Okay, click on iPhoto. Crop image. Great, now I have it in an album. But where's the picture file? Um, show-in-Finder option? Nope. Save cropped picture somewhere? Nope. I have to go deep into the directory, photos->iphoto library->various weird folder -> copy it to a more useful place, then upload.
-Now I want to make the cropped image my ichat buddy icon. Drag to chat pic? No, that would imply interoperability. Export to ichat? No. I have to go to the buddy icon and then load it from the useful place I moved it to.
PXA255 400mHz
I don't know, maybe they should get one of them new-fangled Intel chips that's rumored to do a full processor cycle in *under* two seconds?
That's a very rigorous analysis you've subjected the results to, but one of my freaks above (you'll notice because he's been modded to five) already linked to an even more thorough statistical analysis of the results, that controlled for even more of the possible explanations you mentioned, and STILL found correlation at the p less than .001 level.
That is, there is a 1/1000 chance that it's just a coincidence.
Okay, just so you don't have to find it, here's one source, scroll down to Sutton.
This was on the news, and was attributed to 'human error'. Meaning some nonagenarian didn't bother to report those because there was literally a handful (or less).
In absolute terms, it was a handful: 31. In absolute terms, it was VERY relevant: that number is 7% of the total for that precinct. I know because I checked up on that on one of the vote-watch sites that listed by precinct. I apologize, however, for not knowing how to quickly get back to that so I can post a link; I'm sure you will discover the same, however.
I don't have to tell you what adding 7% of the voters to Ron Paul's *aggregate* NH total would be, do I?
And supporting Ron Paul is great and idealistic and all, but a complete waste. He has 0% chance of winning anything, especially after those racist newsletters came out with his name on them, regardless if he wrote them.
You think this is just about making Ron Paul president? No. This is a long-term fight to move the nation in a more libertarian direction. This surge in grassroots support (compared to what libertarian-minded candidates used to get) is a culmination of all the "internet-only" support the libertarian movement built up beginning in the late 90s, as those younger voters aged, and it's only getting bigger.
The more publicity we can get for libertarian ideas, the better, even and especially of Ron Paul doesn't win. I would know. I'm a local organizer.
The news about the racist remarks worries me, of course, but I think Paul is still at the stage where "any publicity is good" esp. as he gets endorsements from those minorities who have worked with him.
but I think that it's not quite errant thinking either. The concept is Reduce what you can, offset what you can't.
And that's where I deem the environmentalists to be demonstrably wrong, and the source of all the fallacies that bleed into the rest of the discussion.
The concept should be "undo the environmental harm of all your actions". Then, if you enjoy an activity while still being able to marshal the resources to erase its impact on the environment (i.e. pay for others to undo it), you should be in the clear, whether or not others deem it necessary.
Like I've said in the previous discussions, you simply can't know what is "wasteful" (and therefore what I can or can't reduce). Efficiency is benefit provided per cost (including environmental cost) expended. I accept that you can tell me the cost expended, but the benefit provided exists purely in my mind.
Because environmentalists advocate restrictions far more intrusive than simply undoing your damage, their opponents are absolutely right to object to such meddling and paternalism. Remember, emitting carbon (according to environmentalists) hurts the environment and thus you, whether or not I needed to do so. And likewise, a pound of a poor person's carbon is just as harmful as a pound of a rich person's carbon. So to justify these restrictions, as posters typically do, on grounds that "your use affects ME", is disingenuous.
Finally, about the windfarm: by itself, all it does is affect the supply curve by making is so that, for any electricity price, the number of units of electricity offered are the same or more. That cannot lead to reduced bad-energy use in the aggregate. You would have to specifically make an arrangement whereby the electrical gird only uses its power in lieu of already-demanded energy. What you (and all environmentalists) need to realize is that we do not live in a static world, where people keep on engaging in the same patterns of activity and resource use, and hey, we just need to satisfy this present pattern and we're all good. People respond to incentives, and your policy needs to account for the changes in incentives people face.
My dear Warner Bros., why has the DVD of 300 been available for over 6 months, yet it is impossible to purchase or rent online?
Because they're wary of things that would facilitate illegal distribution, like online distribution, and only allow it with reservations.
And why is that? Because if they "rented" it online, they'd have to have really powerful DRM. That, combined with the meatspace-equivalent price point[1] they'd have to use, would anger fans, and make them more likely to violate the terms of the rental (by "recording" the video off their screen). Long story short, no good deed goes unpunished.
[1] Not price, nay, price point. The former would TOTALLY change the meaning of my point and violate the chain of logic at that step.
Yes, but that "something *other* than copying the work" might well turn out to be "copying a copy of the work that someone else already made".
Fine. Rewrite my statement then: "Copy protection is the exact same way. It only needs to be strong enough so that for most people, their utility is maximized by doing something *other* than copying the work, or seeking out an existing, illegally distributed copy of the work."
Question for the record companies: If there are so many photocopiers in bookshops, why didn't people just photocopy Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows instead of buying it?
Because the legal market price of the book was of lower disutility than obtaining such a copy and incurring associated risks. The disutility of the latter would be even higher if such copiers had additional barriers.