And so you can with the iPhone, too. And it really DOES turn it OFF, because the battery life improves with Location Services off. And with GPS turned OFF (even assuming that they still log the other Location data) what's left is that cell-tower triangulation and WiFi hotspot triangulation stuff, which is only accurate to about 1/4 MILE. So how is that in any real, meaningful, way, fine-grained enough information to constitute a privacy issue?
And even when I turn it on, it doesn't report my location to RIM, or my cell phone carrier.
Apple tries to fool you that the data is anonymous when it's not. And do you have a choice to not get iAds?
First, PROVE it's not anonymous.
Second, you have all the choice in the world not to get iAds. Don't download (or when discovered) DELETE those who have in-app ads. Or, here's a thought: SIMPLY DON'T CLICK ON THE AD!
Adults vote with their feet. If enough people reject apps with iAds, or there aren't enough "clickthroughs" to support the infrastructure, then the whole idea will eventually fail.
You see, you DO have a choice. And if you DID understand what Jobs said about iAds in the WWDC Keynote, you'd know that what you say is BULLSHIT.
JEEBUS FUCKING CHRIST ON A SEGWAY! Don't you even understand CHOICE?!?
As Devo said "Freedom of Choice; That's what you've got; Freedom FROM Choice; That's what you want."
Apple gives you the CHOICE to expose yourself. Or not. Sorry you can't deal with that concept.
iAds collects the data unless the whole location service system is turned off, and it's on by default.
And there's nothing anonymous about their system - the anonymity is a lie, as I already explained.
But the location system can be turned off by the user at ANY TIME. Turn it off until needed. Saves (a lot!) of battery, anyway.
PROVE that the system isn't sufficiently anonymous, don't just ASSert it.
BTW, what is the going rate for astroturfing AGAINST Apple? And if you actually know of any programs to do pro-Apple astroturfing, please send me the link, because I'd LOVE to get paid for writing about what I already believe to be TRUE.
Android asks permission for any location data to be collected system-wide very clearly when the phone first sets itself up. They always have. It's very clear and easy to understand, and it's opt-in. This is very different than the system-wide opt-out Apple gives you.
Isn't this a MUCH better way than Android's "when the phone first sets itself up", or "when the app is installed"?
Face it, YOU as the Apple user have a CHOICE. ON or OFF. Apple put the ball in your hands. The same argument that all the Android users used to defend the "Fifth of Android Apps Expose Private Data".
Can't have it both ways. Either it's a personal choice, or not. Same argument applies in either case.
Apps have to ask permission. Already this is retarded - feel free to say no to location tracking, as long as you don't want iTunes store on your iDevice?
No, it just means that the iTunes store can't use Location Services.
as long as location services are enabled on the phone at all. I'm of the understanding they are by default.
And just as easy to turn on and off at ANY time. No legalese required. Don't like your APPROXIMATE location being ANONYMOUSLY reported? TURN THE FUCKING SERVICE OFF!!!
I couldn't find anything about how long they keep location data in any of those documents. Only that they would retain it for as long as it said in the policy, but the policy doesn't specify. It also say that they keep it longer if required or permitted by law.
So actually it DOES say. You just want an "n-hours, or n-days" number. I think the problem is that they use that data for various things, and those things might require more or less "history" to be useful.
Would I have liked to see a "not longer than" phrase? Yes. But to say they really don't say is not exactly true.
What's your credit card number? Don't worry, I won't charge anything. Who has the time? I just want to have it, you know, just in case I might need it. And I'd like to share it with my partners and affiliates. In they, you know, might need it too.
Prove that ANY of that IS happening, or STFU. And, BTW, if you check ANYBODY's "Privacy Policy", you will find the exact same language. That's just life in the information age.
Yeah because EVERYONE reads a EULA with 12 pages of lawyerspeak as opposed to a pop-up that has but ONE THING TO COMMUNICATE.
Actually, they don't have to. If at ANYTIME an iPhone user wants Hir location not to be known, S/he can TURN LOCATION SERVICES OFF (or on), on an app-by-app basis, or even globally.
Visiting that brothel? TURN OFF LOCATION SERVICES. Then turn it back on later to find that Sushi restaurant. Then turn it back off again. On. Off. On. Off. YOUR choice. At ANY time.
Apple has actually made this whole argument moot.
Don't like it? TURN IT THE FUCK OFF!!!
Now what's your argument?
BTW, did you notice that it says APPROXIMATE location? This stuff simply isn't that accurate anyway, period.
When you install an Android app it says very clearly "Access your location data". It is not buried in legalese. You really cannot compare a screen that contains a handful of bullet points to a EULA, they aren't even in the same league.
Seems like Apple has made it so the USER is in control ALWAYS, instead of JUST when they are in a hurry to use teh new shiny app they just downloaded. Because, let's face it, most people will click through ANYTHING to get to the thing they want. And be honest, do you REALLY remember all the various permissions you gave EVERY app when you installed it?
Next time, try READING before posting. Apple actually did it right. Android, not so much.
If you have a problem with it then - and I'll even bold the text so you don't miss it - TURN IT OFF! Their location services can be turned off on an app-by-app basis (and the pop up window that asks if they can gather your location is very clear and concise - nobody will be fooled into it) or can be globally turned off, system wide. If you are concerned about people knowing where you are, don't let them know. It's really not that hard.
A-FREAKIN-MEN, brother!!!
What's hysterical (and hysterically funny) is seeing all the Android-Droids defend that platform to the death, when it's revealed that one in five Android apps have (unfettered) access to your private data (including location?), with the statement "Well, YOU gave it PERMISSION when you installed the app!", are the SAME people who are crying "Apple == Big Brother!".
Gimme a frakkin' BREAK, already! This has LONG abandoned "rational debate".
That's right. But now they ALSO know how much time you spend at home, how you get to work, where you work, where you buy coffee, the stores you frequent,,,, the list goes on. What a lucrative trove of information they now have to parse and analyze.
And yet, Google maps can't place the frickin' STICKPINS within half-a-block of an actual ADDRESS I GIVE them?
You must think that iPhones have some sort of military-grade GPS in them, or something, and Apple has location maps that are MUCH more accurate than Google's. But they don't. This "location" stuff just isn't that accurate.
Sorry to burst your self-importance bubble, but there really ISN'T some big board with a little blinking red light representing your instantaneous (or even stored) location. This is for marketing trends. That's why it's ANONYMIZED, for fuck's sake.
Better throw another layer on that tinfoil hat!
A was at the same location as the iPhones with random identifiers B, C and D the nights before. Today it returned to the same address only after visiting the address of a brothel. Nothing to learn from that, right?
Using lat/long data, Google maps can't even place my house closer than the OTHER end of the street, a frickin' block and a half away.
And have you EVER seen those little "stickpins" actually land on the exact address you're looking for?
The data just ain't that accurate. And when you go inside a building... POOF! No location data AT ALL.
Remember when it was discovered that iTunes was sending anonymized playlist data back to Apple for market-research purposes? Everyone on/. (or nearly so) cried "Big Brother!". But, here we are five years later, and I defy you to find anyone who has had their ACTUAL privacy or identity compromised by that policy.
Apple has a pretty good track record of respecting users' privacy and identities. If no one can demonstrate that a EIN-type identifier or actual phone number can be extracted in less than a lifetime, then STFU.
BTW, the holy Google does a LOT worse things with your data, everytime you use Gmail, Google Docs, or simply do a frickin' SEARCH. I don't see people fleeing away from them.
Fry: "Since when is the internet all about robbing people of their privacy?" Bender: "August 6, 1991".
And please, no jokes about that episode being about the iPhone!
If you guys are comfortable letting Apple or anyone else have this, it's just because your brain hasn't digested what it means yet.
So, when Android apps have access to your NON-ANONYMIZED personal data (to do WHATEVER with!), it's OK. But this isn't?
Oh, and please don't give me that lame excuse of "You gave it permission when you installed the app" bit, because that is exactly what the Apple users did when they clicked the EULA, too.
See, that "The user gave permission" argument runs both ways.
In you long winded and utterly useless rant you seemed to have missed something an apprentice electrician could spot.
Well, an Apprentice ELECTRICIAN would hardly be designing antennas. He'd be installing house wiring. So now that we've established your engineering credentials (or rather, lack thereof), let's proceed to the "substance" of your "argument".
Electrical length dictates what frequencies an antenna can receive and transmit. When you touch a naked antenna you become part of that antenna and change the electrical length.... [etc, etc, blah, blah, woof, woof]
True enough. However, if you'd bothered to actually even GLANCE at any of the academic papers I'd linked (instead of simply dismissing them as a "useless rant"), you would have quickly picked up that some antenna designs are more sensitive to this effect than others. In fact, some are actually HELPED (a little) by "hand effect". "Detuning" by "changing the electrical length" is NOT the problem. If this were a Helical Coil design, then yes; but it isn't. Apple chose an antenna design that was relatively immune to these effects. In fact, if I'm reading the stuff correctly (and I am an embedded developer, but admittedly no antenna expert), I believe that the iPhone 4's antenna system is a "modified loop"-type. These are nearly totally immune to the effects of body capacitance. I was frankly surprised to read this, too; but dem's da facts. Next time READ BEFORE RANTING.
But, being an Apprentice ELECTRICIAN, you wouldn't know about that. Stick to stripping Romex and wiring junction boxes.
Think about it. If what you were saying was true, then it wouldn't matter WHERE you touched the iPhone 4, the signal would degrade. But that is OBVIOUSLY not the case. IMHO, what is actually happening when you "short out" the two antenna systems by touching the "Gone Spot", you are capacitively coupling the two radios together, and the resultant (really strong) Bluetooth and/or WiFi TRANSMIT signal coupling through your skin into the GSM antenna is causing the Automatic Gain Control circuitry in the GSM RECEIVER's front-end circuitry to cut the gain down. Since the receiver is now turning down it's own sensitivity, guess what? It "turns down" the signal it is trying to receive, too. Boom! Call drop. It is NOT a detuning problem. This is exacerbated by the fact that, IIRC, both WiFi and Bluetooth protocols seem to want to TRANSMIT some stuff all the time, even when not "connected". Unfortunately, I would bet that the AGC circuitry is integrated into the chipset, and thus somewhat difficult to "tweak". I'd really like to see someone try turning on "Airplane Mode", which shuts down the WiFi TRANSMIT, and see if the "death grip" effect is reduced or eliminated. I don't know if you can shut down BT (as well as WiFI); but if you could, that would be even more interesting. I would be willing to wager a small amount of money that the problem disappears or is greatly reduced if you eliminate the capacitive coupling of the BT/Wifi TRANSMIT signals into the GSM receiver, by turning the BT/WiFi transmitter OFF. That would neatly disprove your "detuning" theory.
Apple failed basic electrical engineering and you are trying to convince us that other manufactures are having the same problem as Apple, Apple is nowhere near the likes of RIM, Nokia and HTC in dealing with EM interference because they couldn't even manage to grasp that the human hand changes the electrical length of the aerial.
This is so ignorant a statement as to be laughable. You are actually trying to convince someone that Apple, who can hire ANYONE they want, somehow managed to find 18 Doctorate-level RF engineers that didn't understand hand capacitance? Dream on, Mr. Apprentice ELECTRICIAN.
Most phones deal with the human hand and lose less then 10% of the signal strength
Citation, please. That's not what dozens of people complaining about, and demonstr
Actually, it's the ugly-bag-of-mostly-water in proximity to said antenna(e) that's the problem.
But seriously, Jobs admitted that there DOES seem to be "something to this". He admitted that the data doesn't lie. However, he also said that it seems that a case mitigates the problem; so, WHILE THEY CONTINUE TO INVESTIGATE, they will not only give a choice of cases to everyone, but will even refund anyone who has purchased Apple's "Bumper Case".
BTW, I have read at least one blog post about someone who HAD called Apple to complain earlier, actually receiving an iFrogz Bumper Case via FedEx the same day as the Press Conference. So they are obviously being as "proactive" as possible.
Speaking of which, if they had KNOWN about this problem, and KNOWN that the Bumper Case would fix it, don't you think they would have just INCLUDED one in the box, or even better, simply shipped the thing with the case already ON it?!?!? JEEBUS!!! They well know that "reputation" is something that takes a long time to gain, and only a minute to destroy. That case isn't going to make or break Apple. They would have nipped this in the bud, if they discovered the problem late in the approval and rollout process!
That isn't "spin", or "Good PR". It's good Customer Support. Period. Why do you think that Apple consistently ranks in the top five of ALL corporations as far as "Customer Service/Support" goes?
Anyone who has participated in the design and rollout of a new product, as I have MANY times, KNOWS that "shit happens". And NO amount of testing (lab nor real-world) will EVER equal THREE MILLION PEOPLE, NEARLY ***ALL*** INTENT ON TRYING TO INVOKE YOUR DEFECT!!!
For Fuck's Sake, the VERY FIRST SLIDE in the Press Conference said simply: "We're not perfect." How much more to the point can you get?
So, this obviously REALLY didn't show up in testing, or Apple WOULD have fixed it. They simply DON'T release products that have KNOWN defects. That's one of their strong-points. It sometimes (too often, IMHO) means that they actually stand back from the latest tech fads; but when they do something, it USUALLY rulez, both as far as engineering, and from an industrial-design standpoint. Having said that, everyone has better and worse products, and better and worse versions of the same product. Sometimes (and maybe in this case), the version (or product) is BOTH better AND worse.
There is as much anecdotal evidence to support the argument that the iPhone 4 actually works RELIABLY in many situations that the iPhone 3GS, and even other smartphones, doesn't, as there is that the opposite is true. So much so, in fact, that the data approaches "noise".
There is also data from Canada and Australia that supports the argument that this problem seems largely, if not COMPLETELY, to the AT&T network. But Apple can't exactly come out and say that, can they? In fact, they can't even HINT at that. Not until they close that secret Verizon deal, at least...
So, it appears that the Bumpers fix the problem for now, and you can bet there is some Midnight Oil being burned at that ol' Antenna Lab!
Here's how I see it going down from here on out: There WILL be an iPhone 4.1, likely right about September (the fastest they could get it through the FCC approval process), and Apple will probably extend the "return" offer for anyone to turn-in their undamaged iPhone 4.0 for a 4.1, if they want. Then, those phones that get turned in will get an antenna retrofit kit (or new casing, which includes the new antenna, either way, the fixed antenna will have the same attachment points to the PCB. Apple CERTAINLY doesn't want to trash that many PC board assemblies!!!), and then those phones will be cycled back out, maybe to the refurb/return market, and/or to t
Now, as much as Apple annoys me, and they do enough that I stopped using my iPhone and got an HTC desire, I do feel compelled to point something out to you folks, most of whom are not in the wireless industry.
FINALLY! an INFORMED comment.
Thank you for injecting some sanity into this otherwise ignorant and pointless hate-fest.
Mods? Parent is INSIGHTFUL??? Just WHERE does that "Insight" come from?
The tour was for show because it sidestepped the key points. That is,
How with all that testing did they miss the obvious test of just touching the antenna?
When did Jobs say they did? I would imagine that they found that it wasn't that much of a problem. And it wouldn't have been, but for the media (and to some extent, Apple) telling everyone EXACTLY where to touch, and then EVERYONE immediately trying it.
Why did they ignore their internal memos that flagged the issue early on?
Oh, so you're actually SEEN a copy of said "internal memos"? Because I haven't seen them ANYWHERE, and they would have been copied to the ENTIRE internets by now. STFU, fucktard.
If they knew about the issue, why didn't they insulate the antenna to begin with?
Because it wouldn't have helped. Here, read what a REAL antenna expert has to say about "insulation" and GHz-band antenna design. Here's another post after he DID get to do a little informal testing.
Slashdot Mirror
Apple seem to be trying to keep it a secret when location data is being recorded, and possibly might have made it impossible to disable.
Yeah, Apple's being REALLY secretive about it, and making it impossible to disable.
Yeahrightsure.
And with my blackberry, I can turn it off.
And so you can with the iPhone, too. And it really DOES turn it OFF, because the battery life improves with Location Services off. And with GPS turned OFF (even assuming that they still log the other Location data) what's left is that cell-tower triangulation and WiFi hotspot triangulation stuff, which is only accurate to about 1/4 MILE. So how is that in any real, meaningful, way, fine-grained enough information to constitute a privacy issue?
And even when I turn it on, it doesn't report my location to RIM, or my cell phone carrier.
At least as far as YOU know.
Prove it.
Apple tries to fool you that the data is anonymous when it's not. And do you have a choice to not get iAds?
First, PROVE it's not anonymous.
Second, you have all the choice in the world not to get iAds. Don't download (or when discovered) DELETE those who have in-app ads. Or, here's a thought: SIMPLY DON'T CLICK ON THE AD!
Adults vote with their feet. If enough people reject apps with iAds, or there aren't enough "clickthroughs" to support the infrastructure, then the whole idea will eventually fail.
You see, you DO have a choice. And if you DID understand what Jobs said about iAds in the WWDC Keynote, you'd know that what you say is BULLSHIT.
JEEBUS FUCKING CHRIST ON A SEGWAY! Don't you even understand CHOICE?!?
As Devo said "Freedom of Choice; That's what you've got; Freedom FROM Choice; That's what you want."
Apple gives you the CHOICE to expose yourself. Or not. Sorry you can't deal with that concept.
iAds collects the data unless the whole location service system is turned off, and it's on by default.
And there's nothing anonymous about their system - the anonymity is a lie, as I already explained.
But the location system can be turned off by the user at ANY TIME. Turn it off until needed. Saves (a lot!) of battery, anyway.
PROVE that the system isn't sufficiently anonymous, don't just ASSert it.
BTW, what is the going rate for astroturfing AGAINST Apple? And if you actually know of any programs to do pro-Apple astroturfing, please send me the link, because I'd LOVE to get paid for writing about what I already believe to be TRUE.
Android asks permission for any location data to be collected system-wide very clearly when the phone first sets itself up. They always have. It's very clear and easy to understand, and it's opt-in. This is very different than the system-wide opt-out Apple gives you.
Are you stoned, or just stupid?
Which part of "You can turn Location Services ON AND OFF at ANYTIME, on an APP-BY-APP basis OR GLOBALLY" don't you understand?
Isn't this a MUCH better way than Android's "when the phone first sets itself up", or "when the app is installed"?
Face it, YOU as the Apple user have a CHOICE. ON or OFF. Apple put the ball in your hands. The same argument that all the Android users used to defend the "Fifth of Android Apps Expose Private Data".
Can't have it both ways. Either it's a personal choice, or not. Same argument applies in either case.
Apps have to ask permission. Already this is retarded - feel free to say no to location tracking, as long as you don't want iTunes store on your iDevice?
No, it just means that the iTunes store can't use Location Services.
as long as location services are enabled on the phone at all. I'm of the understanding they are by default.
And just as easy to turn on and off at ANY time. No legalese required. Don't like your APPROXIMATE location being ANONYMOUSLY reported? TURN THE FUCKING SERVICE OFF!!!
Way to troll, fucktard.
I couldn't find anything about how long they keep location data in any of those documents. Only that they would retain it for as long as it said in the policy, but the policy doesn't specify. It also say that they keep it longer if required or permitted by law.
So actually it DOES say. You just want an "n-hours, or n-days" number. I think the problem is that they use that data for various things, and those things might require more or less "history" to be useful.
Would I have liked to see a "not longer than" phrase? Yes. But to say they really don't say is not exactly true.
What's your credit card number? Don't worry, I won't charge anything. Who has the time? I just want to have it, you know, just in case I might need it. And I'd like to share it with my partners and affiliates. In they, you know, might need it too.
Prove that ANY of that IS happening, or STFU. And, BTW, if you check ANYBODY's "Privacy Policy", you will find the exact same language. That's just life in the information age.
Sometimes I hate computers, too.
Then they need to publish and enforce a strict data retention policy.
You mean like this, or this?
Next time RESEARCH THEN POST. I found this in 2 seconds on Apple's site.
Face it, if you're not concerned enough to do 2 seconds of research, then you really don't care anyway, and just want an excuse to Apple-hate, right?
Yeah because EVERYONE reads a EULA with 12 pages of lawyerspeak as opposed to a pop-up that has but ONE THING TO COMMUNICATE.
Actually, they don't have to. If at ANYTIME an iPhone user wants Hir location not to be known, S/he can TURN LOCATION SERVICES OFF (or on), on an app-by-app basis, or even globally.
Visiting that brothel? TURN OFF LOCATION SERVICES. Then turn it back on later to find that Sushi restaurant. Then turn it back off again. On. Off. On. Off. YOUR choice. At ANY time.
Apple has actually made this whole argument moot.
Don't like it? TURN IT THE FUCK OFF!!!
Now what's your argument?
BTW, did you notice that it says APPROXIMATE location? This stuff simply isn't that accurate anyway, period.
When you install an Android app it says very clearly "Access your location data". It is not buried in legalese. You really cannot compare a screen that contains a handful of bullet points to a EULA, they aren't even in the same league.
Yes, but it's NOT buried. There is a config screen where you can turn "Location Services" on and OFF on an app-by-app basis, or even GLOBALLY, WHENEVER YOU CHOOSE (not just at "install" time. And, you notice it says "APPROXIMATE location."?
Seems like Apple has made it so the USER is in control ALWAYS, instead of JUST when they are in a hurry to use teh new shiny app they just downloaded. Because, let's face it, most people will click through ANYTHING to get to the thing they want. And be honest, do you REALLY remember all the various permissions you gave EVERY app when you installed it?
Next time, try READING before posting. Apple actually did it right. Android, not so much.
If you have a problem with it then - and I'll even bold the text so you don't miss it - TURN IT OFF! Their location services can be turned off on an app-by-app basis (and the pop up window that asks if they can gather your location is very clear and concise - nobody will be fooled into it) or can be globally turned off, system wide. If you are concerned about people knowing where you are, don't let them know. It's really not that hard.
A-FREAKIN-MEN, brother!!!
What's hysterical (and hysterically funny) is seeing all the Android-Droids defend that platform to the death, when it's revealed that one in five Android apps have (unfettered) access to your private data (including location?), with the statement "Well, YOU gave it PERMISSION when you installed the app!", are the SAME people who are crying "Apple == Big Brother!".
Gimme a frakkin' BREAK, already! This has LONG abandoned "rational debate".
(no, I don't have an iPhone4 nor will I)
Then, WTF are you even doing in this discusssion, beesides trolling and Apple-hating?
Go the fuck away, Fucktard.
They know where you live, so they can correlate it with your GPS coordinates at night. Then they know every single step everyone takes all day long.
And who, exactly, has the time to do all that?
It's a classic case of "Who watches the watchers?"
That's right. But now they ALSO know how much time you spend at home, how you get to work, where you work, where you buy coffee, the stores you frequent,,,, the list goes on. What a lucrative trove of information they now have to parse and analyze.
And yet, Google maps can't place the frickin' STICKPINS within half-a-block of an actual ADDRESS I GIVE them?
You must think that iPhones have some sort of military-grade GPS in them, or something, and Apple has location maps that are MUCH more accurate than Google's. But they don't. This "location" stuff just isn't that accurate.
Sorry to burst your self-importance bubble, but there really ISN'T some big board with a little blinking red light representing your instantaneous (or even stored) location. This is for marketing trends. That's why it's ANONYMIZED, for fuck's sake. Better throw another layer on that tinfoil hat!
A was at the same location as the iPhones with random identifiers B, C and D the nights before. Today it returned to the same address only after visiting the address of a brothel. Nothing to learn from that, right?
Using lat/long data, Google maps can't even place my house closer than the OTHER end of the street, a frickin' block and a half away.
And have you EVER seen those little "stickpins" actually land on the exact address you're looking for?
The data just ain't that accurate. And when you go inside a building... POOF! No location data AT ALL.
I'm really not too worried.
Remember when it was discovered that iTunes was sending anonymized playlist data back to Apple for market-research purposes? Everyone on /. (or nearly so) cried "Big Brother!". But, here we are five years later, and I defy you to find anyone who has had their ACTUAL privacy or identity compromised by that policy.
Apple has a pretty good track record of respecting users' privacy and identities. If no one can demonstrate that a EIN-type identifier or actual phone number can be extracted in less than a lifetime, then STFU.
BTW, the holy Google does a LOT worse things with your data, everytime you use Gmail, Google Docs, or simply do a frickin' SEARCH. I don't see people fleeing away from them.
Fry: "Since when is the internet all about robbing people of their privacy?" Bender: "August 6, 1991".
And please, no jokes about that episode being about the iPhone!
If you guys are comfortable letting Apple or anyone else have this, it's just because your brain hasn't digested what it means yet.
So, when Android apps have access to your NON-ANONYMIZED personal data (to do WHATEVER with!), it's OK. But this isn't?
Oh, and please don't give me that lame excuse of "You gave it permission when you installed the app" bit, because that is exactly what the Apple users did when they clicked the EULA, too.
See, that "The user gave permission" argument runs both ways.
Don't need thirty years. AppleTV is a flop.
Wish I had a "flop" like this!
In you long winded and utterly useless rant you seemed to have missed something an apprentice electrician could spot.
Well, an Apprentice ELECTRICIAN would hardly be designing antennas. He'd be installing house wiring. So now that we've established your engineering credentials (or rather, lack thereof), let's proceed to the "substance" of your "argument".
Electrical length dictates what frequencies an antenna can receive and transmit. When you touch a naked antenna you become part of that antenna and change the electrical length.... [etc, etc, blah, blah, woof, woof]
True enough. However, if you'd bothered to actually even GLANCE at any of the academic papers I'd linked (instead of simply dismissing them as a "useless rant"), you would have quickly picked up that some antenna designs are more sensitive to this effect than others. In fact, some are actually HELPED (a little) by "hand effect". "Detuning" by "changing the electrical length" is NOT the problem. If this were a Helical Coil design, then yes; but it isn't. Apple chose an antenna design that was relatively immune to these effects. In fact, if I'm reading the stuff correctly (and I am an embedded developer, but admittedly no antenna expert), I believe that the iPhone 4's antenna system is a "modified loop"-type. These are nearly totally immune to the effects of body capacitance. I was frankly surprised to read this, too; but dem's da facts. Next time READ BEFORE RANTING.
But, being an Apprentice ELECTRICIAN, you wouldn't know about that. Stick to stripping Romex and wiring junction boxes.
Think about it. If what you were saying was true, then it wouldn't matter WHERE you touched the iPhone 4, the signal would degrade. But that is OBVIOUSLY not the case. IMHO, what is actually happening when you "short out" the two antenna systems by touching the "Gone Spot", you are capacitively coupling the two radios together, and the resultant (really strong) Bluetooth and/or WiFi TRANSMIT signal coupling through your skin into the GSM antenna is causing the Automatic Gain Control circuitry in the GSM RECEIVER's front-end circuitry to cut the gain down. Since the receiver is now turning down it's own sensitivity, guess what? It "turns down" the signal it is trying to receive, too. Boom! Call drop. It is NOT a detuning problem. This is exacerbated by the fact that, IIRC, both WiFi and Bluetooth protocols seem to want to TRANSMIT some stuff all the time, even when not "connected". Unfortunately, I would bet that the AGC circuitry is integrated into the chipset, and thus somewhat difficult to "tweak". I'd really like to see someone try turning on "Airplane Mode", which shuts down the WiFi TRANSMIT, and see if the "death grip" effect is reduced or eliminated. I don't know if you can shut down BT (as well as WiFI); but if you could, that would be even more interesting. I would be willing to wager a small amount of money that the problem disappears or is greatly reduced if you eliminate the capacitive coupling of the BT/Wifi TRANSMIT signals into the GSM receiver, by turning the BT/WiFi transmitter OFF. That would neatly disprove your "detuning" theory.
Apple failed basic electrical engineering and you are trying to convince us that other manufactures are having the same problem as Apple, Apple is nowhere near the likes of RIM, Nokia and HTC in dealing with EM interference because they couldn't even manage to grasp that the human hand changes the electrical length of the aerial.
This is so ignorant a statement as to be laughable. You are actually trying to convince someone that Apple, who can hire ANYONE they want, somehow managed to find 18 Doctorate-level RF engineers that didn't understand hand capacitance? Dream on, Mr. Apprentice ELECTRICIAN.
Most phones deal with the human hand and lose less then 10% of the signal strength
Citation, please. That's not what dozens of people complaining about, and demonstr
user name: macs4all
Clearly NOT an Apple fanboy.
user name: Anonymous Coward.
Name says it all.
And the antenna isn't a problem.
Really.
Actually, it's the ugly-bag-of-mostly-water in proximity to said antenna(e) that's the problem.
But seriously, Jobs admitted that there DOES seem to be "something to this". He admitted that the data doesn't lie. However, he also said that it seems that a case mitigates the problem; so, WHILE THEY CONTINUE TO INVESTIGATE, they will not only give a choice of cases to everyone, but will even refund anyone who has purchased Apple's "Bumper Case".
BTW, I have read at least one blog post about someone who HAD called Apple to complain earlier, actually receiving an iFrogz Bumper Case via FedEx the same day as the Press Conference. So they are obviously being as "proactive" as possible.
Speaking of which, if they had KNOWN about this problem, and KNOWN that the Bumper Case would fix it, don't you think they would have just INCLUDED one in the box, or even better, simply shipped the thing with the case already ON it?!?!? JEEBUS!!! They well know that "reputation" is something that takes a long time to gain, and only a minute to destroy. That case isn't going to make or break Apple. They would have nipped this in the bud, if they discovered the problem late in the approval and rollout process!
That isn't "spin", or "Good PR". It's good Customer Support. Period. Why do you think that Apple consistently ranks in the top five of ALL corporations as far as "Customer Service/Support" goes?
Anyone who has participated in the design and rollout of a new product, as I have MANY times, KNOWS that "shit happens". And NO amount of testing (lab nor real-world) will EVER equal THREE MILLION PEOPLE, NEARLY ***ALL*** INTENT ON TRYING TO INVOKE YOUR DEFECT!!!
For Fuck's Sake, the VERY FIRST SLIDE in the Press Conference said simply: "We're not perfect." How much more to the point can you get?
So, this obviously REALLY didn't show up in testing, or Apple WOULD have fixed it. They simply DON'T release products that have KNOWN defects. That's one of their strong-points. It sometimes (too often, IMHO) means that they actually stand back from the latest tech fads; but when they do something, it USUALLY rulez, both as far as engineering, and from an industrial-design standpoint. Having said that, everyone has better and worse products, and better and worse versions of the same product. Sometimes (and maybe in this case), the version (or product) is BOTH better AND worse.
There is as much anecdotal evidence to support the argument that the iPhone 4 actually works RELIABLY in many situations that the iPhone 3GS, and even other smartphones, doesn't, as there is that the opposite is true. So much so, in fact, that the data approaches "noise".
There is also data from Canada and Australia that supports the argument that this problem seems largely, if not COMPLETELY, to the AT&T network. But Apple can't exactly come out and say that, can they? In fact, they can't even HINT at that. Not until they close that secret Verizon deal, at least...
So, it appears that the Bumpers fix the problem for now, and you can bet there is some Midnight Oil being burned at that ol' Antenna Lab!
Here's how I see it going down from here on out: There WILL be an iPhone 4.1, likely right about September (the fastest they could get it through the FCC approval process), and Apple will probably extend the "return" offer for anyone to turn-in their undamaged iPhone 4.0 for a 4.1, if they want. Then, those phones that get turned in will get an antenna retrofit kit (or new casing, which includes the new antenna, either way, the fixed antenna will have the same attachment points to the PCB. Apple CERTAINLY doesn't want to trash that many PC board assemblies!!!), and then those phones will be cycled back out, maybe to the refurb/return market, and/or to t
Now, as much as Apple annoys me, and they do enough that I stopped using my iPhone and got an HTC desire, I do feel compelled to point something out to you folks, most of whom are not in the wireless industry.
FINALLY! an INFORMED comment.
Thank you for injecting some sanity into this otherwise ignorant and pointless hate-fest.
It's odd that such a glaring flaw wasn't found but completely normal that millions of users find some problems in a few handsets.
Millions?
The tour was for show because it sidestepped the key points. That is,
How with all that testing did they miss the obvious test of just touching the antenna?
When did Jobs say they did? I would imagine that they found that it wasn't that much of a problem. And it wouldn't have been, but for the media (and to some extent, Apple) telling everyone EXACTLY where to touch, and then EVERYONE immediately trying it.
Why did they ignore their internal memos that flagged the issue early on?
Oh, so you're actually SEEN a copy of said "internal memos"? Because I haven't seen them ANYWHERE, and they would have been copied to the ENTIRE internets by now. STFU, fucktard.
If they knew about the issue, why didn't they insulate the antenna to begin with?
Because it wouldn't have helped. Here, read what a REAL antenna expert has to say about "insulation" and GHz-band antenna design. Here's another post after he DID get to do a little informal testing.
BTW, he DID say that, after doing some more extensive tests, the "bumpers" pretty much made the problem disappear.
Hint: Next time try to have some REAL FACTS before you start with your UNINFORMED hate-fest.
The iPhone 4 doesn't have any bug, it has a symbiote!
Now THAT's funny!