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Apple Lays Out Location Collection Policies
itwbennett writes "In a 13-page reply (PDF) to questions from Congressmen Ed Markey of Massachusetts and Joe Barton of Texas, Apple said iPhones running OS 3.2 or iOS 4 collect GPS data and encrypt it before sending it back to Apple every 12 hours via Wi-Fi. Attached to the GPS data is a random identification number generated by the phone every 24 hours. The information is not associated with a particular customer and Apple uses the data to analyze traffic patterns and density, it said. Apple collects such data from customers who have approved the use of location-based capabilities on the phone and who actually use an application that requires GPS."
A story about Apple? Let's all talk about Google now! Google!
But seriously, the best part of this whole article is here:
Barton wasn't so positive. "While I applaud Apple for responding to our questions, I remain concerned about privacy policies that run on for pages and pages,"
Amen, Barton. Obfuscation through walls of text is a scummy way to slip clauses past consumers. Too bad every company does it today.
There's a spot in User Info for World of Warcraft account names? Really?
Your monthly bandwidth usage bill will be following shortly.
Yeah but what do they use the data for? It's nice that they admit they collect this info, but for what purpose.
$action = empty(PHP) ? backToC() : unset(PHP) ; "when the concrete cases are understood, the abstractions are readily
Wow, a new ID every 24 hours, huh? Am I supposed to be impressed? What do you think, are they deliberately creating "anonymizing" measures they can circumvent, or are they just retarded?
Let's just assume it actually works as they say and there isn't some easy way to link the random ID the real phone. Say, by web server logs. Duh.
If I get 24 hours, I get where you woke up this morning and where you'll go to bed tonight. I almost certainly know where you live, and then I know where you were all day. The lat/long itself during stationary periods especially at night is an identifier.
If you guys are comfortable letting Apple or anyone else have this, it's just because your brain hasn't digested what it means yet. Don't worry, wait for the first few scandals. It will take a few years - maybe long enough for every asshole company to start doing this. But it will get easier to understand.
This response by apple is an intelligence test for Congress and for the American public. Sharpen your pencils, let's see if you pass...
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Maybe some technically illiterate people will buy that, but it should be obvious to most people that such data can never be anonymous. Last night the iPhone with random identifier A was at the same location as the iPhones with random identifiers B, C and D the nights before. Today it returned to the same address only after visiting the address of a brothel. Nothing to learn from that, right?
Apple, if this policy is not clearly explained prior to the purchase, such data collection is illegal in many European countries. Google got into trouble over mere wardriving, which then turned into a shitstorm over just fragments of unencrypted Wifi data. What you, Apple, are collecting here is much worse. Back off now.
If i take the phone serial number, and append a few random digits to it, is this considered random? Not in my book, but i doubt that this "privacy policy" contains wording on that.
If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
To be fair, they do mention that it is applicable only of location services are ON. I wonder why they are analyzing traffic patterns though?
Honestly, I am baffled. I know that the iPhone always asks if an app wants to access the localization service, which I though is just the GPS receiver in the phone. It makes sense to ask, if you do not trust the app (or you know, it will send that information somewhere). But that Apple is harvesting this data is news to me - and I do not take that lightly. What right do they have to get the data, when I use the internal GPS receiver of the iPhoned? Next, they get my browsing history, or what?
Seriously?!? Traffic patterns and density? Apple has no legitimate business interest in such data. But they say they aren't selling it. So, what -- they're using it to position new Apple stores? I'm glad I got rid of my iPhone! Sheesh!
Woosh....
Apple collects such data from customers who have approved the use of location-based capabilities on the phone and who actually use an application that requires GPS."
So basically there is a 13 page document that someone should read when prior to initially powering on the GPS?
Most folks and if I'm honest, myself included would not assume that my using and navigation program would have in any way constituted my intention to let Jobs know where I am and what I am doing.
What's interesting to me is how much this company lies to people and yet so many folks defend them. Take this situation for example, is it true that Apple has buried a "technically" accurate description of that they are doing in their T&C's? Most assuredly. It is also assuredly true that it's written in such a way that the laymen would be oblivious to the fact.
Based on that, there will be many out there who say, Jobs didn't then and fuck you if you ever call him a liar!" To these people I must ask, where do you come from?
I was raised to know that deliberately trying to deceive a person for group of people, whether I use technically accurate information or not, is still lying. I recon these are the same folks who discipline their children with a harsh time-out and no PS3 for 6 hours.
Still, it is indicative of our culture.
So what happens when stolen phone IDs are correlated with their GPS locations? Individually, they might not make much sense, but surely a concentration of stolen phones at a singular location could perhaps help solve issues identifying the thieves?
....shooW
Amusingly enough this has been finally mentioned, but what I've been thinking the most is how many applications use my GPS data for something other than just pointing out my location? Nearly ever major app has this now--particularly restaurant locators and movie theater locators. But you gotta wonder how many of them are collecting that GPS data.
I don't really see much wrong with it, it's far more accurate than "zip code" location that are otherwise used in marketing
Apple collects such data from customers who have approved the use of location-based capabilities on the phone and who actually use an application that requires GPS.
In other words anyone running an app from the app-store has already agreed to the use this data - see: http://apple.slashdot.org/story/10/06/22/0318202/Apple-Wants-To-Share-Your-Location-With-Others
When users attempt to download apps or media from the iTunes store, they are prompted to agree to the new terms and conditions. Until they agree, they cannot download anything through the store.
We'll for the time being I'll stick with my run-of-the-mill dumb-phone :)
There is no way to verify what they're telling us, because the software is not free.
I'm on Boost Mobile; no contract. Paid cash for the phone, connection fee, and $50 monthly bills which you pay like you'd pay for minutes on a minute phone (pay cash for a PIN at any gas station). And that $50 covers everything my daughter gets on her T-Mobile and she's paying over twice what I do.
Free Martian Whores!
When did it become so fashionable to become so vehemently confused?
They know where you live, so they can correlate it with your GPS coordinates at night. Then they know every single step everyone takes all day long.
And yes, in case you read the book and were wondering, that actually is worse than anything Orwell imagined Big Brother could have in 1984.
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What must pass for a logical reason in your mind? They automatically opted everyone into sharing their every move all day long.
I would respect them more if they simply said, "You bought our phones, so we will spy on your every move. If you don't like it, don't buy them." Instead they make it twice as bad by insulting your intelligence with an "anonymization" scheme so obviously ineffective that it really makes it clear what contempt they have for their customers.
They not only want to spy on your every move, but they think you are stupid, and they want to fool you into thinking they haven't given themselves that power.
This is so obviously evil they could probably go to jail for it in Europe.
It's bad enough the cell providers have this data - but they have it by tower, and you can't build a cell system without it. Apple has no such excuse.
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My nephew recently tried my Android app called, "Speed Limit".
It wouldn't work on his phone because he didn't have GPS enabled.
I asked why?
He said, "Big Brother".
Who do I write to to DEMAND that jobs quits logging ANYTHING related to location?
This will ruin location apps!
Traffic patterns are studied by the Carriers. Whats next? HTC monitoring, Motorola monitoring, Opera monitoring?
After 5 years of reading slashdot, I am writing a letter on this one. jp
All the cool cows have cow bells, why don't you.
Your phone company keeps records of where you are at any time based on which towers your attached to. Law enforcement can get that data.
The phone company also has access to this data, who knows what they are using it for (hopefully to place towers near congestion)?
Apple is not alone in this It appears Tom Tom/ Google are using their mapping app to get peoples speeds to get traffic info to feed back into the system...
Honestly, I do not care at all about companies like apple and google collecting satistics about my phone usage, including location. I really don't care. I mean, at most they will be making money selling those satistics to another company while not giving money back to me. I seriously don't think steve has any interest in knowing where I live or where I go.
However, I fully understand how there are many people who do not feel comfortable by any of this.
I think it would be less of a problem if they would give something in return.
Google for example tracks your location with latitude if you explicitly tell them to. And even then, you must go a second step and enable "locaiton tracking" if you want them to actually compute your location for further analysis.
And in return I get services like known where my friends are with nearby location alerts (for those of us who have enabled it).
Also, google sents you reminders every month that you have those services enabled, but you can turn it off.
It would be great if Apple did the same, remind you that you are sending out potentially sensitive information and give you maybe something in return.
Did you read the letter?
Apps have to ask permission. Already this is retarded - feel free to say no to location tracking, as long as you don't want iTunes store on your iDevice?
Yeah, awesome.
But what about page 9? It appears iAd collects this information independently, as long as location services are enabled on the phone at all. I'm of the understanding they are by default.
Shall I quote? I shall.
As specified in the updated Policy and the iPhone 4 and iPod touch SLAs, customers may opt out of interest-based advertising by visiting the following site from their mobile device: https:lloo.apple.com. Customers also may opt out of location-based advertising by toggling the device's location-based service capabilities to "Off."IO
For customers who do not toggle location-based service capabilities to "Off," Apple collects information about the device's location (latitude/longitude coordinates) when an ad request is made. This information is transmitted securely to the Apple iAd server via a cellular network connection or Wi-Fi Internet connection. The latitude/longitude coordinates are converted immediately by the server to a five-digit zip code. Apple does not record or store the latitude/longitude coordinates-Apple stores only the zip code. Apple then uses the zip code to select a relevant ad for the customer...
Hence on page 12, when answering "which consumers Apple is monitoring," it is forced to answer, basically, "everyone who sees iAds."
Apple collects anonymous Wi-Fi Access Point, Cell Tower and GPS Information from
devices that have location services turned on, have explicitly authorized apps to use their location, and are actively running one of the apps. Anonymous Wi-Fi Access Point Information and GPS coordinates may also be collected when an iPhone is using GPS to search for a cellular network. Diagnostic location data is only collected from users who have expressly agreed to send this information to Apple. Device location data (by zip code only) is collected from users who participate in the iAd network. [EMPHASIS ADDED].
And I guess you still have no comment on their prima facie disengenuous anonymization technique?
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Remember when it was discovered that iTunes was sending anonymized playlist data back to Apple for market-research purposes? Everyone on /. (or nearly so) cried "Big Brother!". But, here we are five years later, and I defy you to find anyone who has had their ACTUAL privacy or identity compromised by that policy.
Apple has a pretty good track record of respecting users' privacy and identities. If no one can demonstrate that a EIN-type identifier or actual phone number can be extracted in less than a lifetime, then STFU.
BTW, the holy Google does a LOT worse things with your data, everytime you use Gmail, Google Docs, or simply do a frickin' SEARCH. I don't see people fleeing away from them.
Fry: "Since when is the internet all about robbing people of their privacy?" Bender: "August 6, 1991".
And please, no jokes about that episode being about the iPhone!
This is the same technology scientists use to track shark movement patterns in the ocean. Maybe Apple is secretly studying our mating behaviors.
Um, they already know where I live. That would be the address where my phone bill arrives. It's also the billing address of the credit card I used to sign up with iTunes. But holy shit, now they know the same thing with GPS! It's like 1984 or something! AAAGGHHHH!!!
You seem to be missing the point. Apple specifically indicated to Congress that they anonymize location data by assigning a unique random ID every 24 hours. Presumably the goal is to disassociate your location information from the details that Apple already knows, i.e., your name and home address. That way Apple can claim they're not collecting data that would actively violate a user's privacy. More specifically, the theory is to prevent Apple (or someone malicious who obtains the database) from associating "a phone at some series of locations throughout the day" with "John K. Oodaloop at 4945 Spring Place". If this anonymization actually works, then customers can rest easy that they're not carrying an active tracking device with them all day that's recording their movements into a long-lived and possibly ill-secured database.
Clearly this is what Apple would like Congress to believe, anyway, and that's why they're "anonymizing" the data in the first place.
The grandparent poster is pointing out that Apple's anonymization really stinks, and that with some very minimal data mining you should be able to easily de-anonymize it and link those phone movements with the phone's owner. As you point out, Apple already has your billing address (which is likely to be your home or work), so this de-anonymization should be especially trivial. Therefore one can't really credit Apple with anything significant when they say they anonymize your data.
In my mind the fear is /not/ that Apple will track me and sell ads (hey, non-stupid advertising would be an improvement). It's that this data will never ever go away, and will eventually find its way into the hands of third parties who aren't so interested in my well being. For example, it might wind up someday being sold to third party "marketing" agencies, and then eventually to firms that do credit reporting, private investigation, background checks, etc. Mobile phone companies already seem perfectly content to sell my call logs this way, so this isn't without precedent. Or else it will be written to a hard drive that might someday be carelessly thrown away without being properly wiped (after all, the data is "anonymized", so why worry?). While my movements are generally pretty uninteresting, I don't love the idea that by carrying an iPhone I'll be constantly leaving a trail of potentially long-lived breadcrumbs that may never, ever go away.
And no, this isn't limited to Apple. Once it becomes accepted practice, you can be more or less certain that any device with an Internet connection and GPS (which will be a lot of devices in the future!) will be doing the same thing.
*my* cellphone has a location-data setting for "911 ONLY" (capitalization emphasis was not added, it is present in the cellphone).
A Motorola V9m running on Verizon might sound archaic, but at least one vendor + cell provider combination can fully disable non-Emergency location logging.
This is absurd, where you are can easily equal who you are by itself (Like I don't know lat/long showing you leaving your home for work each day) Then we consider the envelope information on the network connection the data flows thru that may easily be used to correlate multiple tokens. Even if there were no 24-hour tokens or tokens of any kind there would still be the same issue.
All data thats recorded and available is subject to subpeona (Even the capability of intentional token aggregation may be selectivly switched on by court order if reasonably available) This can and will be used against you in the court of law (Now I'm sure most people don't have a need to care about these things but no legal system is perfect and the idea that your own shit could be used against you to support a stubborn prosecuters narrow world view is somewhat disheartening to me)
Add to the fact that data plans are not free for everyone -- what right does Apple claim to have to use your bandwidth for their purposes to your detrement without your knowledge? (Should have read their fricking 45-page EULA is not an acceptable response)
Apple is just digging their own graves using a track hoe with this crap for questionable amounts of new marketing intelligence. With a good geo-location database you could esentially have precisely the data you need to "analyze traffic patterns and density" just by recording IPs of connections to the app store. The real world distribution of devices is NOT as good as the real world distribution of network and application resources which all network managers have visibility they need to make intelligent decisions without the need or desire to inject their uses with radio tags.
Regardless of what the provider does or does not intend to do with the data this is clearly inexcusable and downright creepy.
Making sense would be more like if our government collected hundred million dollar fines for pulling stunts like this...
I'm sure if we all sit back and do nothing, don't call or express any opinion to our politicians, and still occasionally purchase Apple products, it will all work out all right in the end.
Intelligence test... failed.
Android asks permission for any location data to be collected system-wide very clearly when the phone first sets itself up. They always have. It's very clear and easy to understand, and it's opt-in. This is very different than the system-wide opt-out Apple gives you. What's more, Android actually honors it, without disabling huge features (equivalent to iTunes store) or giving themselves loopholes (like iAds).
Individual apps can know your location. It's a separate issue whether they can also talk to the internet. You get to see for yourself all powers they have - it's up to you, not Google (or Apple). Then you get to decide if you trust them to know your location and be able to talk to home at the same time. I trust google maps with that. I don't trust Bob's To-Do List with that.
There is nothing like this in the Apple world. It's night and day. Android can be exploited if users make bad choices during the time between when a dangerous app developer gets in the market and when they are kicked out. Meanwhile Apple is virtually promising to violate your privacy, and record your every move for themselves, and for their "partners and affiliates." And they are trying to fool you into thinking they aren't.
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Hey, since you're cool with it, will you share your GPS location with me in real time? I want to share it with some other people. I might be able to make some money off it.
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... Apple already has your billing address (which is likely to be your home or work), so this de-anonymization should be especially trivial ...
I am not an attorney but my understanding is that Personally Identifiable Information (PII) has all sorts of legal requirements regarding access and use. Anonymized data is considered non-PII and has fewer restrictions, however the moment non-PII is associated with PII the non-PII legally becomes PII and subject to the access and usage safeguards. I'd wager that all those handling the non-PII have been lectured by corporate attorneys (I was in my past life where I handled anonymized data that could theoretically be associated with PII) in such matters and that access to the raw anonymized data is heavily restricted, as is access to the PII. The raw anonymized data is probably processed into some aggregate form that cannot be associated with PII (it describes groups not individuals, regions not addresses) and only this aggregate data is distributed within the organization.
... Let's just assume it actually works as they say and there isn't some easy way to link the random ID the real phone. Say, by web server logs ...
In another life I collected, handled and processed anonymized data. Due to the severe legal repercussions of allowing Personally Identifiable Information (PII) to be associated with anonymized non-PII we took steps to avoid such potential associations. For example our server logs for the anonymized data did not record the IP address. I could not associate the anonymized data with real customers if I had wanted to. I'd wager similar steps are being taken at Apple, and that the "easy" methods are not as available as some might assume.
As for the more difficult methods. that's addressed in a different post.
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1725026&cid=32966714
Collecting the data isn't a service; it doesn't say anywhere that the data is not collected by them if location services is disabled - plus you've explicitly allowed them to do so in the terms.
Actually, according to the PDF, data is collected by them only if location services is enabled. It says so right on page 7, and again on page 8. You say you read the document, but apparently you didn't.
have a gmail account? well your IP address you login from is captures and stored "for security purposes" :P )
search on google? well that too is captured and stored (even though you might be using https
have your house on google street view? well your wifi SSID was captured.
Google (and other providers) is fairly blatant on the fact that they know you, what you search for, the kind of email you receive and present ads just for you... and people are whining about some company telling that they are specifically trying to give your data anonymity?
Want anonymity? stop using electronic devices... oh, and don't use your name to post on slashdot
And they know who you hang out with(same place at same time)
Cell companies can and have been doing it much longer than apple and they can tie it to a unique phone that is in your name based on triangulation of your phone and cell towers...Apple is just taking it a step further and using the GPS that is on the phone. I would not be surprised if the other cell companies aren't doing this as well....I can understand the good that could come out of it, however i think it can lead to much more bad things to arise out of it, and do not think it is worth it.
Apple said "iPhones running OS 3.2 or iOS 4 collect GPS data and encrypt it before sending it back to Apple every 12 hours via Wi-Fi" Does this mean they collect data all day long (or when the gps is activated) then just send back a log with some times and places, or only where you are when the clock strikes 12. That is some incredibly powerful information. You could make a fortune on it by finding where and when they have the highest saturation of iphones users, and then exploiting those people on there lack of tech knowledge, by telling them how revolutionary something is that they ripped off a competitor and rushed to market.
Rocket Surgeon.
How do I firewall the connection between my Apple device and Apple? Is there a range of IP addresses or host names that are known?
Interesting, I'll have to check when this was enabled. I racked up an $850+ data roaming bill on a 2 week trip to Japan. A lot of it was easily attributable to what I was doing, but all of it? Now I'm not so sure - if Apple was sending out data every day they could have caused a significant chunk of that bill. I'll have to check...
Boolean logic: True, False, and File not found.