Licensing. Apple did flirt with ZFS, but for some reason, and I would guess it was license issues, they decided not to go that route. Using btrfs would bring GPL/BSD licensing issues. So, Apple either had to license something like ReFS from MS, or roll their own.
Exactly. And it WAS Licensing in the case of ZFS. They didn't want to have their Filesystem beholden to the likes of Oracle (and I for one, don't blame them a bit!).
I was hoping Apple would license ZFS or even Veritas Volume Manager/Veritas FS from Symantec. Heck, even ReFS from MS. However, with all the cash they have, I am happy they are putting out something. I wouldn't expect it to be a default filesystem until 2017, perhaps 2018, as filesystems are something never to be undertaken lightly, but long term, it is crucial to macOS's usefulness, especially as SSDs get larger, and TRIM support is more critical to performance.
I don't know anything about Veritas FS; but I have looked long and hard at ZFS; but the continued major issues with ZFS on macOS, with Finder integration and more, while getting SLOWLY better (and which would no doubt get better with Apple's access and engineering), still signal that ZFS just isn't ready for Prime-Time on OS X, much to my chagrin.
This new filesystem should become stable in about 2028.
That wont stop the fanboys. I'm just waiting for the first one to lose all his data because of this and try and spin it as a good thing!
Well, everyone on Slashdot calls me a "fanboi"; but I'm here to tell you that neither I, nor any of my other Mac-using friends rush right out and update to ANYTHING even approaching a major release, no matter how tempting it may be to try out some new feature. I have taught them well, to sit back and wait for the idiots to do the "field testing".
Well, at least you earn all that shilling money. Who else would be posting so many glowing reviews about how awesome Apple is on a story about Apple being shits about allowing third party repairs and overcharging for the repairs they offer.
I don't think so. You probably haven't had the joy of stripping out a torx fastener yet because it was actually torx plus. They're barely discernable from each other visually and I hadn't even heard of them until I bought my Subaru. I already hated torx bolts with a passion.
History is replete with fasteners that look similar, but are not. Take Phillips, vs. Frearson, vs. Cross-Drive for example. Visually very similar, until you start applying torque with the wrong driver...
Once again, a bunch more misinformation from the major Apple shill and liar macs4all. It really depends on which Mac. If you have a Macbook it better be from 2009 or newer, so when El Capitan came out in 2015 you've got... SIX years. Even if you count the iMac which is supported back to 2007 you've only got EIGHT years since El Capitan was released in 2015.
And besides, Apple is not a hardware company, at least any more. They barely make computers anymore anyway. They are all about skimming money off the top of their app stores and other rent-seeking services, which is why they want everyone running the latest version so they can push their app store harder. Exactly the same thing reason Microsoft pushes Windows 10 so hard.
You're right that I over generalized a bit. I should have linked to the list which does, however, extend back to 2007 on some models. In a hurry at work, sorry. Only time will tell how long the 2008 and 2009 models will be supported into the future; but I would expect that the internal edict from Apple is that those will be used as the baseline systems for compatibility, which is almost assuredly based on certain hardware (which I believe is mostly-based on 64-bit CPUs) being present in the design. The question is easily answered by looking at the list of Mavericks-compatible systems, which constitute the start of Apple's push to get the diehards off of Snow Leopard, with that same list for El Capitan. If the list grows, or at least stays the same, then Apple is likely planning on continued support for those systems for the foreseeable future. If the list shrinks, then expect those older systems will start to drop off of OS support. After looking at both lists, guess which is the case? Of course, all good things come to an end; but as I said originally, at least Apple is trying.
But of course, in your paranoid fantasy, you have rationalized that by saying "Apple just wants to keep you hooked for more services", disregarding the fact that some of those services are actually NOT AVAILABLE to older Macs running new versions of OS X, and the simple fact that Apple's own filings clearly show that HARDWARE sales are still, as always, "King" at Apple. What company would walk away from their biggest profit-center? That would be like MS discontinuing all sales, including "Cloud-based" of MS Office and Exchange.
So, you are REALLY saying that Apple shifting their business model from hardware-sales-based to a "services" based model is proven by the fact that they Killed-Off iAd, allow Mac users to d/l software from Anywhere, and recently announced a program to REDUCE their "cut" of App Store Sales, AND the fact that they CONTINUE to advertise and host many, many FREEWARE titles on all of their App Stores?
Look, I have had a similar career path as you, being an embedded developer for mostly industrial real-time control and measurement products for about 30 years. And believe you, me, if legislation like this was actually enforceable, I'd be right there with the torches and pitchforks...
But all of the hyperbole fails, due to the simple fact that The longstanding doctrine of First Sale should make it impossible to pass, or if passed, enforce, any such legislation regarding what you can or cannot do with equipment you have purchased, period.
"Right To Repair" is therefore yet another example of "feel-good" legislation that is, in the end, a complete and utter nullity. The only "power" that an OEM has after someone has purchased their goods is the most-reasonable power to deny WARRANTY repair to those customers who have attempted to modify, or in some cases, repair, their own devices. After the warranty period, that power completely vanishes. Period. Full Stop.
But know this: Breathless hyperbole aside, there is absolutely nothing and no one that can PREVENT, much less CRIMINALIZE, any damned thing that anyone wants to do with something they PURCHASED (bomb making activities excluded). A couple of hundred years of statutory and case law will see to that.
OTOH, if legislation like this passes, the economic and even design-flexibility impact on OEMs could be significant, and that's why the push back from OEMs (like Apple). Let's consider a hard drive. Under legislation like this, that little sticker on the drive that says "Warranty void If Seal Missing Or Broken" would likely have to go, and the drive mfrs. Would likely have to replace UNDER WARRANTY the drive that someone just decided to open up in a non-clean room environment. Oh, and the OEM likely wouldn't even be allowed to design the product with custom fasteners, or use adhesives, because those would be seen as "anti-repairability" tactics. Is that fair to the OEM? That's not hyperbole; that's the all-too-likely consequences.
In fact, taken to a not-too impossible extreme, such legislation could even be used deny an OEM the ability to design a product with those evil, un-repairable SMT components. Afterall, what average consumer has an SMT rework station. So if you can't repair it with a 100W Wen soldering Gun, then the design is "anti-consumer", right? Think it can't happen? Wait until the EU gets wind of this! Any engineer that lived-through the recent RoHS "directives" KNOWS how stuff like this can blow-off a year or more of what should be new-product development time, cost a BUNCH of money, and ultimately result in a product with higher failure rates and inferior reliability for YEARS, as entire industries have to relearn and retool components and processes.
By the way, Apple's stance on doing things to your own equipment has always been the most-reasonable "as long as you don't break anything while you're in there, we don't void warranties." There has NEVER been an Apple product with a "warranty seal", and I doubt there will ever be. Think about that.
One last thing chafes me about TFS is the gratuitous inclusion of Apple's anti-theft feature with their fingerprint sensor "pairing" with the SoC on their mobile devices. As an engineer, you should recognize that That was actually pretty forward-thinking on Apple's part; because, otherwise, someone stealing your phone, or a LEO seizing your phone, only has to swap out the Sensor holding YOUR fingerprint data with one pre-programmed with THEIR fingerprint data, et VOILA! Instant and Total Security Circumvention. GREAT! Personally, I'm glad that Appke thought of that little contingency!
But yet, that great anti-circumvention FEATURE is being WRONGLY painted as some sort of anti-consumer money-grab on the part of Teh Evil Applez!
Seriously? That brand was discontinued years ago. But, fun fact: by 2004 their quality control was second only to Apple.
That IS interesting. Just like the restaurant that has just almost been shut down because of the health code violations is usually the cleanest restaurant in town, AFTER they clean up all the things the Inspector found.
But the reason I mentioned eMachines was that I was talking about computers now in LANDFILLS...;-)
A clue that the status quo is always correct? You have my permission to take me out to pasture if I ever become this dull and complacent. Now, if only your parents, and that of your ilk, would have given society the same mercy, we wouldnt be in this mess. This sentiment can be applied to much more than just personal computing.
Hey, if I had gone with the status quo, I wouldn't have been a Mac afficianado since 1984, now would I? I would have been a mindless Windows drone, like so many around me.
At least you get paid for being a shill, being a fanboy is just embarrassing.
Not a "fanboy", just someone who has had enough other experience to appreciate the insane level of detail to which Apple's products are designed and manufactured.
Whoa...i watched a youtube video on how to replace usb port on my Samsung...took 10 minutes and ordered it online for 8 bucks. So...yes...it can be done.
Never said it couldn't be done. In fact, iFixit has an excellent step by step for replacing the display/ digitizer on an iPhone 6 Plus.
What I said wax that Apple wasn't substantially harder than any other mobile device mfr.
It was a Torx wrench. Which at the time was pretty darn uncommon. Downright unobtainium for most people.
We're talking 1984, not 1894. Torx is an ISO STANDARD, DEVELOPED IN 1967, FFS.
I had Torx bits in a screwdriver set back to the early 1980s, at least, and they were common to people that did automotive repair, since GM bought into them big time since at least 1980. I had a 1980 Buick Skyhawk that had LOTS of Torx.
The pentalobe screws were made precisely to make it harder to repair. To counter your GM example, there wasn't a place anywhere to buy the pentalobe drivers. The didn't want to make money selling the tools, they want you to buy a whole new phone because the repair prices are too high. Also Apple geniuses were putting them on older phones that were brought into the stores for minor repairs, without asking customers about the replacement. Some info here on them: https://www.ifixit.com/blog/20...
Exactly when was it impossible to find Pentalobe drivers? You're full of shit. And anyone who has had the "fun" of dealing with a stripped-head on a #00 Phillips (incidentally, what Apple used before switching to Pentalobe) will INSTANTLY understand Apple's use of Pentalobe, and also why they replace Philips with Pentalobe on certain devices brought in for repair.
But you just keep thinkin' it's all part of an evil ultra-capitalistic plot on Apple's part.
That's exactly it. They gratuitously used a rare screw head requiring an unusually long shaft just to meke things harder. Meanwhile, the PC could be opened up by a standard Phillips available in any household at the time.
In more recent years, now that everyone has torx and they tend to be included in standard tool sets, they are using pentalobe.
As you point out, it doesn't actually make opening it up impossible, but clearly Apple intended to discourage it to the extent possible and still does.
Those two Torx bolts are essentially holding together the entire case; so they have to be torqued-down pretty well. That can't really happen with Phillips or Slot-Head bolt. So your only real choices are an Allen-Head "Cap-Screw", or a Torx. By 1984, Torx was already being used extensively by the U.S. Auto industry, because it is very amenable to robotic assembly; but even with manual assembly lines, Torx is much easier for the assemblers to "hit" with their pneumatic-powered screwdrivers.
Now, as for the "unusually-long shaft" being some sort of "evil engineering", take a look at the Toaster Mac's case design. Then look at the insides. And then ponder the fact that they held ALL that together with just TWO BOLTS. But the reason those bolts are so "buried" is that they HAD to attach to the metal Bezel that held the CRT (the heaviest part) in place, and THAT was waaaay up at the very front of the computer. So, either you have some freakishly-long bolt (custom), or you require a long-ass driver. Guess which EVERY mechanical engineer on the PLANET would opt-for?
But you know WHY you can buy a 9 inch T-15 driver at Lowe's Lumber, or on Amazon, is that PLENTY OF OTHER THINGS REQUIRE IT, TOO!!!
So get over yourself; even in 1984, a 9 inch T-15 wrench was not anything like unobtainable, and zillions of people that got into their Toaster-Macs are laughing at you.
My Macbook Pro has battery issues twice, and Apple gave me new batteries for free. My wife had a Macbook, the case cracked, Apple gave her a new Macbook Pro. I don't know if we're just lucky or not, but I don't think so.
Those stories abound, especially if you have AppleCare. But even when not, Apple tends to bend-the-rules in the customer's favor a LOT when it comes to repair.
Now, cue the Slashtards with 5 examples of the opposite experience. Just because.
Ok, I have a counter-anecdote. I had one of those cheese-grater, dual-cpu, water-cooled Power Mac G5's. Loved it, very fast. One day I turned it on and got nothing, deader than a doornail. Took to the Apple Store. They looked at it for a bit and came back and told me it was unrepairable and would I accept a new Mac Pro for free instead? So, yes, I got a new, $2,000 computer when my 5-year-old G5 died because of a water leak. So. Check, your turn.
WOW! I still have one of those Water-Cooled 2.7 GHz Quad-G5 towers running in my livingroom, acting as an iTunes server and Security Camera server.
Wonder if I could pull the connectors off some fans and let it roast awhile (or just throw a plastic bag over it and wait), then take it to the Apple Store...;-)
I agree that it was actually a T-15 Torx bit; but many people at the time used a long Allen wrench, because it worked, and back in the day, Torx wrenches were considered somewhat exotic.
Unfortunately, I can't find a teardown tutorial old enough to show using an Allen for this; but I assure you, that's what was popular at the time (probably because making a drawn piece of hex-stock was much easier than milling a Torx end onto a shaft).
chanced my arm and tried replacing the LVDS cable on the off-chance is was just a damaged cable.
WHY, if you have enough electronics knowledge to even know what an LVDS cable is, would you think that a drop of wine would affect a sealed CABLE?
And Apple authorized service centers, like a LOT of repair services for a LOT of companies for a LOT of different products, are trained (and only AUTHORIZED) to do "Module-Level" rather than "Component Level" Repair. In fact, they likely don't even have complete schematics, which is VERY common with "high-tech" devices from ANYONE. So, It just isn't practical for most repair shops to start digging around trying to troubleshoot and replace 0201 SMT resistors and BGA ICs in a design for which there is precious little component-level information. Or would you rather they just started poking around, waiting for a scope-probe twitch-of-the-hand to short out a couple of signals, possibly causing even MORE damage?
Same thing would happen if you took your Acer laptop to an authorized Acer Service Center (wherever THOSE are). Pretty much NO ONE does Component-Level repair on stuff more complex than a guitar amplifier (and even THAT is getting rarer and rarer).
You were just lucky enough to find a "shadetree mechanic" that was willing to take a gamble with your money, and you lucked-out...
But the REAL moral of the story is: Would you have had a different experience if it had been a Dell, HP, Panasonic, Acer, or Lenovo laptop that had taken a drink?
The answer is 100% "No". And you know that. Or should.
Quit ascribing "Evilness" to Apple, when the truth is, the design and robotic-fabrication skills of the ENTIRE industry has long-ago outstripped the corner repair-shop's ability to troubleshoot and repair at the component level.
And THAT is EXACTLY why it is getting harder and harder to find electronic repair shops that want to do Component-Level ANYTHING. It just isn't practical in most cases.
I know. I have worked as a bench tech at one of the last remaining repair shops in my major metropolitan home-town, and have watched everything from computers to stereo equipment to even musical equipment (including the lowly guitar amp) slowly become more and more complex, and less and less repairable on component-level, even by pretty damned-good techs (not even including myself in that category, next to what they can do).
But you just keep on blaming Apple, because that is a popular thing to do on Slashdot.
Slashdot Mirror
It's too bad for everybody that Steve got bitchy at Jonathan and the community hasn't had Apple's help as a contributor for the past decade.
I'm pretty sure it was ZFS' assimilation by Oracle that put the brakes on that deal.
Licensing. Apple did flirt with ZFS, but for some reason, and I would guess it was license issues, they decided not to go that route. Using btrfs would bring GPL/BSD licensing issues. So, Apple either had to license something like ReFS from MS, or roll their own.
Exactly. And it WAS Licensing in the case of ZFS. They didn't want to have their Filesystem beholden to the likes of Oracle (and I for one, don't blame them a bit!).
C'mon, it's 2016. Where is compression?
Well, it has been part of HFS+ since Snow Leopard (2005). Where have you been?
So, I would imagine that the new FS will support it as well.
I was hoping Apple would license ZFS or even Veritas Volume Manager/Veritas FS from Symantec. Heck, even ReFS from MS. However, with all the cash they have, I am happy they are putting out something. I wouldn't expect it to be a default filesystem until 2017, perhaps 2018, as filesystems are something never to be undertaken lightly, but long term, it is crucial to macOS's usefulness, especially as SSDs get larger, and TRIM support is more critical to performance.
I don't know anything about Veritas FS; but I have looked long and hard at ZFS; but the continued major issues with ZFS on macOS, with Finder integration and more, while getting SLOWLY better (and which would no doubt get better with Apple's access and engineering), still signal that ZFS just isn't ready for Prime-Time on OS X, much to my chagrin.
This new filesystem should become stable in about 2028.
That wont stop the fanboys. I'm just waiting for the first one to lose all his data because of this and try and spin it as a good thing!
Well, everyone on Slashdot calls me a "fanboi"; but I'm here to tell you that neither I, nor any of my other Mac-using friends rush right out and update to ANYTHING even approaching a major release, no matter how tempting it may be to try out some new feature. I have taught them well, to sit back and wait for the idiots to do the "field testing".
Well, at least you earn all that shilling money. Who else would be posting so many glowing reviews about how awesome Apple is on a story about Apple being shits about allowing third party repairs and overcharging for the repairs they offer.
God, I WISH I was being paid!
Wow, the amount of fud you spew is amazing.
No, it doesn't last longer.
Frankly, Apple products are already outdated the day you buy them.
Just replying to say that whoever the AC is, it ain't me.
Homey don't play that.
I don't think so. You probably haven't had the joy of stripping out a torx fastener yet because it was actually torx plus. They're barely discernable from each other visually and I hadn't even heard of them until I bought my Subaru. I already hated torx bolts with a passion.
History is replete with fasteners that look similar, but are not. Take Phillips, vs. Frearson, vs. Cross-Drive for example. Visually very similar, until you start applying torque with the wrong driver...
Once again, a bunch more misinformation from the major Apple shill and liar macs4all. It really depends on which Mac. If you have a Macbook it better be from 2009 or newer, so when El Capitan came out in 2015 you've got... SIX years. Even if you count the iMac which is supported back to 2007 you've only got EIGHT years since El Capitan was released in 2015.
And besides, Apple is not a hardware company, at least any more. They barely make computers anymore anyway. They are all about skimming money off the top of their app stores and other rent-seeking services, which is why they want everyone running the latest version so they can push their app store harder. Exactly the same thing reason Microsoft pushes Windows 10 so hard.
You're right that I over generalized a bit. I should have linked to the list which does, however, extend back to 2007 on some models. In a hurry at work, sorry. Only time will tell how long the 2008 and 2009 models will be supported into the future; but I would expect that the internal edict from Apple is that those will be used as the baseline systems for compatibility, which is almost assuredly based on certain hardware (which I believe is mostly-based on 64-bit CPUs) being present in the design. The question is easily answered by looking at the list of Mavericks-compatible systems, which constitute the start of Apple's push to get the diehards off of Snow Leopard, with that same list for El Capitan. If the list grows, or at least stays the same, then Apple is likely planning on continued support for those systems for the foreseeable future. If the list shrinks, then expect those older systems will start to drop off of OS support. After looking at both lists, guess which is the case? Of course, all good things come to an end; but as I said originally, at least Apple is trying.
But of course, in your paranoid fantasy, you have rationalized that by saying "Apple just wants to keep you hooked for more services", disregarding the fact that some of those services are actually NOT AVAILABLE to older Macs running new versions of OS X, and the simple fact that Apple's own filings clearly show that HARDWARE sales are still, as always, "King" at Apple. What company would walk away from their biggest profit-center? That would be like MS discontinuing all sales, including "Cloud-based" of MS Office and Exchange.
So, you are REALLY saying that Apple shifting their business model from hardware-sales-based to a "services" based model is proven by the fact that they Killed-Off iAd, allow Mac users to d/l software from Anywhere, and recently announced a program to REDUCE their "cut" of App Store Sales, AND the fact that they CONTINUE to advertise and host many, many FREEWARE titles on all of their App Stores?
Yeahrightsure. Pass me that bowl...
Look, I have had a similar career path as you, being an embedded developer for mostly industrial real-time control and measurement products for about 30 years. And believe you, me, if legislation like this was actually enforceable, I'd be right there with the torches and pitchforks...
But all of the hyperbole fails, due to the simple fact that The longstanding doctrine of First Sale should make it impossible to pass, or if passed, enforce, any such legislation regarding what you can or cannot do with equipment you have purchased, period.
"Right To Repair" is therefore yet another example of "feel-good" legislation that is, in the end, a complete and utter nullity. The only "power" that an OEM has after someone has purchased their goods is the most-reasonable power to deny WARRANTY repair to those customers who have attempted to modify, or in some cases, repair, their own devices. After the warranty period, that power completely vanishes. Period. Full Stop.
But know this: Breathless hyperbole aside, there is absolutely nothing and no one that can PREVENT, much less CRIMINALIZE, any damned thing that anyone wants to do with something they PURCHASED (bomb making activities excluded). A couple of hundred years of statutory and case law will see to that.
OTOH, if legislation like this passes, the economic and even design-flexibility impact on OEMs could be significant, and that's why the push back from OEMs (like Apple). Let's consider a hard drive. Under legislation like this, that little sticker on the drive that says "Warranty void If Seal Missing Or Broken" would likely have to go, and the drive mfrs. Would likely have to replace UNDER WARRANTY the drive that someone just decided to open up in a non-clean room environment. Oh, and the OEM likely wouldn't even be allowed to design the product with custom fasteners, or use adhesives, because those would be seen as "anti-repairability" tactics. Is that fair to the OEM? That's not hyperbole; that's the all-too-likely consequences.
In fact, taken to a not-too impossible extreme, such legislation could even be used deny an OEM the ability to design a product with those evil, un-repairable SMT components. Afterall, what average consumer has an SMT rework station. So if you can't repair it with a 100W Wen soldering Gun, then the design is "anti-consumer", right? Think it can't happen? Wait until the EU gets wind of this! Any engineer that lived-through the recent RoHS "directives" KNOWS how stuff like this can blow-off a year or more of what should be new-product development time, cost a BUNCH of money, and ultimately result in a product with higher failure rates and inferior reliability for YEARS, as entire industries have to relearn and retool components and processes.
By the way, Apple's stance on doing things to your own equipment has always been the most-reasonable "as long as you don't break anything while you're in there, we don't void warranties." There has NEVER been an Apple product with a "warranty seal", and I doubt there will ever be. Think about that.
One last thing chafes me about TFS is the gratuitous inclusion of Apple's anti-theft feature with their fingerprint sensor "pairing" with the SoC on their mobile devices. As an engineer, you should recognize that That was actually pretty forward-thinking on Apple's part; because, otherwise, someone stealing your phone, or a LEO seizing your phone, only has to swap out the Sensor holding YOUR fingerprint data with one pre-programmed with THEIR fingerprint data, et VOILA! Instant and Total Security Circumvention. GREAT! Personally, I'm glad that Appke thought of that little contingency!
But yet, that great anti-circumvention FEATURE is being WRONGLY painted as some sort of anti-consumer money-grab on the part of Teh Evil Applez!
eMachines
Seriously? That brand was discontinued years ago. But, fun fact: by 2004 their quality control was second only to Apple.
That IS interesting. Just like the restaurant that has just almost been shut down because of the health code violations is usually the cleanest restaurant in town, AFTER they clean up all the things the Inspector found.
;-)
But the reason I mentioned eMachines was that I was talking about computers now in LANDFILLS...
As a person who has been at times an electronics bench tech for a legit independent Repair business, I agree with pretty much everything in your Post.
A clue that the status quo is always correct? You have my permission to take me out to pasture if I ever become this dull and complacent. Now, if only your parents, and that of your ilk, would have given society the same mercy, we wouldnt be in this mess. This sentiment can be applied to much more than just personal computing.
Hey, if I had gone with the status quo, I wouldn't have been a Mac afficianado since 1984, now would I? I would have been a mindless Windows drone, like so many around me.
At least you get paid for being a shill, being a fanboy is just embarrassing.
Not a "fanboy", just someone who has had enough other experience to appreciate the insane level of detail to which Apple's products are designed and manufactured.
Whoa...i watched a youtube video on how to replace usb port on my Samsung...took 10 minutes and ordered it online for 8 bucks. So...yes...it can be done.
Never said it couldn't be done. In fact, iFixit has an excellent step by step for replacing the display/ digitizer on an iPhone 6 Plus.
What I said wax that Apple wasn't substantially harder than any other mobile device mfr.
It was a Torx wrench. Which at the time was pretty darn uncommon. Downright unobtainium for most people.
We're talking 1984, not 1894. Torx is an ISO STANDARD, DEVELOPED IN 1967, FFS.
I had Torx bits in a screwdriver set back to the early 1980s, at least, and they were common to people that did automotive repair, since GM bought into them big time since at least 1980. I had a 1980 Buick Skyhawk that had LOTS of Torx.
As someone who previously worked for a 3rd party repair shop, I'd like to point out that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about...
In what way?
The pentalobe screws were made precisely to make it harder to repair. To counter your GM example, there wasn't a place anywhere to buy the pentalobe drivers. The didn't want to make money selling the tools, they want you to buy a whole new phone because the repair prices are too high. Also Apple geniuses were putting them on older phones that were brought into the stores for minor repairs, without asking customers about the replacement. Some info here on them: https://www.ifixit.com/blog/20...
Exactly when was it impossible to find Pentalobe drivers? You're full of shit. And anyone who has had the "fun" of dealing with a stripped-head on a #00 Phillips (incidentally, what Apple used before switching to Pentalobe) will INSTANTLY understand Apple's use of Pentalobe, and also why they replace Philips with Pentalobe on certain devices brought in for repair.
But you just keep thinkin' it's all part of an evil ultra-capitalistic plot on Apple's part.
That's exactly it. They gratuitously used a rare screw head requiring an unusually long shaft just to meke things harder. Meanwhile, the PC could be opened up by a standard Phillips available in any household at the time.
In more recent years, now that everyone has torx and they tend to be included in standard tool sets, they are using pentalobe.
As you point out, it doesn't actually make opening it up impossible, but clearly Apple intended to discourage it to the extent possible and still does.
Those two Torx bolts are essentially holding together the entire case; so they have to be torqued-down pretty well. That can't really happen with Phillips or Slot-Head bolt. So your only real choices are an Allen-Head "Cap-Screw", or a Torx. By 1984, Torx was already being used extensively by the U.S. Auto industry, because it is very amenable to robotic assembly; but even with manual assembly lines, Torx is much easier for the assemblers to "hit" with their pneumatic-powered screwdrivers.
Now, as for the "unusually-long shaft" being some sort of "evil engineering", take a look at the Toaster Mac's case design. Then look at the insides. And then ponder the fact that they held ALL that together with just TWO BOLTS. But the reason those bolts are so "buried" is that they HAD to attach to the metal Bezel that held the CRT (the heaviest part) in place, and THAT was waaaay up at the very front of the computer. So, either you have some freakishly-long bolt (custom), or you require a long-ass driver. Guess which EVERY mechanical engineer on the PLANET would opt-for?
But you know WHY you can buy a 9 inch T-15 driver at Lowe's Lumber, or on Amazon, is that PLENTY OF OTHER THINGS REQUIRE IT, TOO!!!
So get over yourself; even in 1984, a 9 inch T-15 wrench was not anything like unobtainable, and zillions of people that got into their Toaster-Macs are laughing at you.
My Macbook Pro has battery issues twice, and Apple gave me new batteries for free. My wife had a Macbook, the case cracked, Apple gave her a new Macbook Pro. I don't know if we're just lucky or not, but I don't think so.
Those stories abound, especially if you have AppleCare. But even when not, Apple tends to bend-the-rules in the customer's favor a LOT when it comes to repair.
Now, cue the Slashtards with 5 examples of the opposite experience. Just because.
Ok, I have a counter-anecdote. I had one of those cheese-grater, dual-cpu, water-cooled Power Mac G5's. Loved it, very fast. One day I turned it on and got nothing, deader than a doornail. Took to the Apple Store. They looked at it for a bit and came back and told me it was unrepairable and would I accept a new Mac Pro for free instead? So, yes, I got a new, $2,000 computer when my 5-year-old G5 died because of a water leak. So. Check, your turn.
WOW! I still have one of those Water-Cooled 2.7 GHz Quad-G5 towers running in my livingroom, acting as an iTunes server and Security Camera server.
;-)
Wonder if I could pull the connectors off some fans and let it roast awhile (or just throw a plastic bag over it and wait), then take it to the Apple Store...
Yeah I use a place on ebay out of FL. $150 guarantee or money back not authorized.
I only use Apple if it is clearly warranty.
That's true of ANY Company's "Depot Repair". NONE of them, for ANYBODY's equipment, EVER does Component-Level Repair.
Ever.
Does this look like an allen wrench to you?
I agree that it was actually a T-15 Torx bit; but many people at the time used a long Allen wrench, because it worked, and back in the day, Torx wrenches were considered somewhat exotic.
Unfortunately, I can't find a teardown tutorial old enough to show using an Allen for this; but I assure you, that's what was popular at the time (probably because making a drawn piece of hex-stock was much easier than milling a Torx end onto a shaft).
Some us see outside the cage of capitalism.
And some of us just expect a free ride for everything.
Welcome to the Entitlement Generation...
chanced my arm and tried replacing the LVDS cable on the off-chance is was just a damaged cable.
WHY, if you have enough electronics knowledge to even know what an LVDS cable is, would you think that a drop of wine would affect a sealed CABLE?
And Apple authorized service centers, like a LOT of repair services for a LOT of companies for a LOT of different products, are trained (and only AUTHORIZED) to do "Module-Level" rather than "Component Level" Repair. In fact, they likely don't even have complete schematics, which is VERY common with "high-tech" devices from ANYONE. So, It just isn't practical for most repair shops to start digging around trying to troubleshoot and replace 0201 SMT resistors and BGA ICs in a design for which there is precious little component-level information. Or would you rather they just started poking around, waiting for a scope-probe twitch-of-the-hand to short out a couple of signals, possibly causing even MORE damage?
Same thing would happen if you took your Acer laptop to an authorized Acer Service Center (wherever THOSE are). Pretty much NO ONE does Component-Level repair on stuff more complex than a guitar amplifier (and even THAT is getting rarer and rarer).
You were just lucky enough to find a "shadetree mechanic" that was willing to take a gamble with your money, and you lucked-out...
But the REAL moral of the story is: Would you have had a different experience if it had been a Dell, HP, Panasonic, Acer, or Lenovo laptop that had taken a drink?
The answer is 100% "No". And you know that. Or should.
Quit ascribing "Evilness" to Apple, when the truth is, the design and robotic-fabrication skills of the ENTIRE industry has long-ago outstripped the corner repair-shop's ability to troubleshoot and repair at the component level.
And THAT is EXACTLY why it is getting harder and harder to find electronic repair shops that want to do Component-Level ANYTHING. It just isn't practical in most cases.
I know. I have worked as a bench tech at one of the last remaining repair shops in my major metropolitan home-town, and have watched everything from computers to stereo equipment to even musical equipment (including the lowly guitar amp) slowly become more and more complex, and less and less repairable on component-level, even by pretty damned-good techs (not even including myself in that category, next to what they can do).
But you just keep on blaming Apple, because that is a popular thing to do on Slashdot.