Even Apple does this; they usually (but not always) ensure new versions of Mac OS X run on Macs a little over five years old, but not much older.
Really? You can install and run OS X 10.11 El Capitan (the most recent OS X rev.) on Macs back to 2007. 2016 - 2007 is NINE years, nearly double what you said.
Yes, hardware limitations may make certain features unavailable; but at least Apple is TRYING.
And keep in mind, Apple is first and foremost a Hardware company; so it is actually NOT in their best "profit" interests to extend support to models nearly a DECADE old, now is it? So, perhaps they actually DO care about their Users a bit more than Google, eh?
Hardware vendors on the other hand have an anti-incentive to provide long term support for their products.
Then explain why iOS and OS X offer one of the longest upgrade support timelines for any given Device, if not the longest, since Apple considers themselves first-and-foremost a Hardware company.
No, you're just lying about what the FOSS position ever was.
I reject your premise on its face.
I know what my intent was, and it was NOT to DECEIVE. Now, I might (probably was) MISTAKEN about what some people's OPINION about what is meant by the "Many Eyes" effect; but that most assuredly does NOT mean I was "LYING".
Many, many Google Software Projects get Shuttered before their time.
IIRC, Even Nexus Phones are only guaranteed18 months of Android Support They could get up to 3 years; but might be as little as 18 months, depending.
Now this?
Meanwhile, my iPad 2 and iPhone 4s can load the latest version of iOS 9, and you can install the latest version of OS X, 10.11 El Capitan, on nearly any Mac from 2007-08 up.
Looks like the solution is to statically link function stubbs. Which means a smart dynamic linker could very easily undo this. And if they were brazen enough to add this to the compiler in the first place they are brazen enough to "fix" the binary with a smart dynamic linker.
But then there really is no solution as the exec dispatcher and dynamic linker could always implement some form of telemetry.
The real solution is an OS vendor that is not going to pull tricks like this.
Diff AC here. What difference would that make? Didn't we learn from Shellshock, Heartbleed and all of those incidents that people don't review source code, even when it is available? Doesn't that Underhanded C Contest show that harmful code can be made to look harmless so that it is overlooked even when reviews are done too?
Exactly.
That's why the "Many Eyes" rubric is, in a practical sense, almost never leveraged the way that FOSSies say it is.
The funniest segment in Wait Wait Don't Tell Me (NPR) was when they were making Clippy jokes, then Paula Poundstone pipes up and say "um... who's Clippy?"
That's kinda amazing.I always figured she was kind of a geek.
Really? Which distro are you comparing them to? Keep in mind that there are hundreds of different distros out there, and some of them run on phones too.
Which brings me to the other reason that "Linux on the Desktop" is doomed...
For $200 less, you get a computer that is more than double the performance of the $500 Mac Mini, AND you can actually expand it. Add more RAM if you want, put a SSD in if you want, etc.
Plus, it comes with an actual keyboard and mouse to boot, something the Mac Mini lacks.
Oh, and by the time you "expand" it, it's hardly $300 now, is it?
And the Piece of Resistance? Windows 10. And don't say "Linux", because we're talking about a VIABLE solution for a REAL front office desktop, not Linux, sorry.
And another thing: That Mac mini will still be sitting there, quietly chugging along, long after that shitbox Acer has a Power Supply failure, and the cheap-ass no-crowbar PS takes out the mobo, AND every connected USB and video device along with it. Don't EVEN think it can't happen...
Now how good of a value is that $300 machine?
Fact is, even the low-end Mac mini has more than enough shit in the tank for a very wide range of "front office", Laboratory, Software and Web Development, and Document and "Media" Creation Applications. IOW, the things that businesses of many types need to do.
with the rumors of apple wanting to make OSX into iOS i was hoping microsoft would go the other direction... make all xboxes into pcs. the surface is fucking amazing having a real os in a tablet to get actual shit done.
Well that and Linux isn't exactly a great Windows alternative. The Windows 10 silliness really would be a grand opportunity for Apple to release a cheaper Mac Mini.
WTF? $500 isn't cheap enough???
You haven't priced Intel CPUs lately, have you? The MSRP of the lowest-end CPU offered in a Mac mini (1.4 GHz i5), is almost 2/3 the luster price of the ENTIRE machine!!! Of course, Apple doesn't pay that; but I would be willing to bet that they pay around 60% of that, maybe more.
And before you whine about the $500 model, realize that 95% of Applications typically run on corporate desktops can EASILY be comfortably run on a machine of its specs. Easily.
OS X is not Windows. It is not NEARLY as RAM- Hungry, nor resource-hungry. Not having to run three layers of A/V helps...
It has caused huge problems for many Linux users, as evidenced by the many mailing list posts and bug reports describing serious problems with it. A recent example is how a systemd change broke tools like screen and tmux [slashdot.org].
What in the fuck us wrong with Linux devs?
systemd is nothing more than a bad cooy of OS X's launchd. Launchd has been an integral part of OS X since 10.4 (Tiger). That means that OS X had been happily using essentially the same concept as systemd for TWELVE YEARS. But even when that figure was 1 or 2 years, launchd didn't cause anywhere NEAR the problems with OS X or its Developer Community that systemd has caused in the Linux world.
So WTF is the problem? Are Linux System Devs REALLY THAT INCOMPETENT?
With this mechanism, 64-bit programs work without requiring all the 32-bit drivers and the kernel proper to operate entirely in 64-bit mode, which was a significant time-to-market and compatibility advantage. There's a drawback in that performance isn't as good as with a pure 64-bit kernel, but Apple shipped that a few years later.
Thanks for the "props", and for the explanation. It is even cooler than I thought...
This guy's a piece of shit, but we need to contact him and somehow get him to file a barrage of lawsuits against Microsoft (probably for stuff related to forcing Win10 on everyone). That'd be funny as hell to watch.
It wouldn't work; his Mom would never let him file.
But we need to give him a break. Afterall, we're all brought up to believe in things like Justice and Fairness...
Slashdot Mirror
I bought a Chromebook for my kid for $129. That is a tenth of what I paid for my wife's Macbook.
Sounds about right; since the Chromebook is about a twentieth of what the MacBook is.
And that doesn't even scratch the surface (no pun) of the difference between ChromeOS and OS X.
Even Apple does this; they usually (but not always) ensure new versions of Mac OS X run on Macs a little over five years old, but not much older.
Really? You can install and run OS X 10.11 El Capitan (the most recent OS X rev.) on Macs back to 2007. 2016 - 2007 is NINE years, nearly double what you said.
Yes, hardware limitations may make certain features unavailable; but at least Apple is TRYING.
And keep in mind, Apple is first and foremost a Hardware company; so it is actually NOT in their best "profit" interests to extend support to models nearly a DECADE old, now is it? So, perhaps they actually DO care about their Users a bit more than Google, eh?
Apple? Well Snow Leopard stopped receiving even security updates in under 5 years.
Yes, but they also provided a FREE "way out" of that.
Essentially, Any Mac that can run OS X Snow Leopard can be Upgraded to the Current OS X Release, 10.11, El Capitan, for FREE. And it will run it just fine. May even be a little faster... Due to hardware limitations, some newer features may not be present; but the OS will run and install. And be supported...
In fact, that's what drove MS to make Windows 10 "Free". Apple had already been doing it for the past 3 Major OS Releases. (Since 10.9 "Mavericks").
Hardware vendors on the other hand have an anti-incentive to provide long term support for their products.
Then explain why iOS and OS X offer one of the longest upgrade support timelines for any given Device, if not the longest, since Apple considers themselves first-and-foremost a Hardware company.
https://support.apple.com/ipho...
Yeah they do not gather telemetry AT ALL.
I would say they are even worse than MS.
Care to post a link to something OTHER THAN the Top of the iPhone Support site?
How about THIS, for example? Simple, no legalese, all layed-out in one easy to read document.
Now, wanna compare that to Microsoft? Let me know when you get done chasing down all Links on that page...
No, you're just lying about what the FOSS position ever was.
I reject your premise on its face.
I know what my intent was, and it was NOT to DECEIVE. Now, I might (probably was) MISTAKEN about what some people's OPINION about what is meant by the "Many Eyes" effect; but that most assuredly does NOT mean I was "LYING".
And BTW, I wasn't.
Yet they dont support all the new featured such as hand off or continuity so they are just bug fixes
1. First off, they tend to support MOST new features. Sometimes hardware constraints make it impossible.
2. Even if they WERE just "Bug Fixes", most Android users would KILL for even THAT level of support.
Many, many Google Software Projects get Shuttered before their time.
IIRC, Even Nexus Phones are only guaranteed 18 months of Android Support They could get up to 3 years; but might be as little as 18 months, depending.
Now this?
Meanwhile, my iPad 2 and iPhone 4s can load the latest version of iOS 9, and you can install the latest version of OS X, 10.11 El Capitan, on nearly any Mac from 2007-08 up.
Looks like the solution is to statically link function stubbs. Which means a smart dynamic linker could very easily undo this. And if they were brazen enough to add this to the compiler in the first place they are brazen enough to "fix" the binary with a smart dynamic linker.
But then there really is no solution as the exec dispatcher and dynamic linker could always implement some form of telemetry.
The real solution is an OS vendor that is not going to pull tricks like this.
Wait! I know of one who doesn't...
What is this obsession with spying on users?
It all started with NSAKEY...
Diff AC here. What difference would that make? Didn't we learn from Shellshock, Heartbleed and all of those incidents that people don't review source code, even when it is available? Doesn't that Underhanded C Contest show that harmful code can be made to look harmless so that it is overlooked even when reviews are done too?
Exactly.
That's why the "Many Eyes" rubric is, in a practical sense, almost never leveraged the way that FOSSies say it is.
The funniest segment in Wait Wait Don't Tell Me (NPR) was when they were making Clippy jokes, then Paula Poundstone pipes up and say "um... who's Clippy?"
That's kinda amazing.I always figured she was kind of a geek.
Oh, nevermind...
I can see it now: RMS launching a new Stand-up Comedy career...
"You might be a neckbeard, if..."
Yeah, a leak like this makes me think someone WANTS to drive another nail in the coffin...
So, you're really on the side of hiding this completely voluntary policy on the part of BB from their Customer base?
Keep dreaming there fanboi.
Actually, we're both dreaming, if either of us think it will ever be anything other than a Windows world, at least on the corporate desktop...
Really? Which distro are you comparing them to? Keep in mind that there are hundreds of different distros out there, and some of them run on phones too.
Which brings me to the other reason that "Linux on the Desktop" is doomed...
WTF? $500 isn't cheap enough???
No, it isn't, and what you get for $500 is a shitty computer to boot...
Acer Aspire - Intel i3 - 3.6GHz - $300 http://amzn.to/1UxLhFh
For $200 less, you get a computer that is more than double the performance of the $500 Mac Mini, AND you can actually expand it. Add more RAM if you want, put a SSD in if you want, etc.
Plus, it comes with an actual keyboard and mouse to boot, something the Mac Mini lacks.
Really? Better performance? With a i3?
PC Mag doesn't think so...
Oh, and by the time you "expand" it, it's hardly $300 now, is it?
And the Piece of Resistance? Windows 10. And don't say "Linux", because we're talking about a VIABLE solution for a REAL front office desktop, not Linux, sorry.
And another thing: That Mac mini will still be sitting there, quietly chugging along, long after that shitbox Acer has a Power Supply failure, and the cheap-ass no-crowbar PS takes out the mobo, AND every connected USB and video device along with it. Don't EVEN think it can't happen...
Now how good of a value is that $300 machine?
Fact is, even the low-end Mac mini has more than enough shit in the tank for a very wide range of "front office", Laboratory, Software and Web Development, and Document and "Media" Creation Applications. IOW, the things that businesses of many types need to do.
with the rumors of apple wanting to make OSX into iOS i was hoping microsoft would go the other direction... make all xboxes into pcs. the surface is fucking amazing having a real os in a tablet to get actual shit done.
Apple is WAY far away from making OS X in iOS.
Well that and Linux isn't exactly a great Windows alternative. The Windows 10 silliness really would be a grand opportunity for Apple to release a cheaper Mac Mini.
WTF? $500 isn't cheap enough???
You haven't priced Intel CPUs lately, have you? The MSRP of the lowest-end CPU offered in a Mac mini (1.4 GHz i5), is almost 2/3 the luster price of the ENTIRE machine!!! Of course, Apple doesn't pay that; but I would be willing to bet that they pay around 60% of that, maybe more.
And before you whine about the $500 model, realize that 95% of Applications typically run on corporate desktops can EASILY be comfortably run on a machine of its specs. Easily.
OS X is not Windows. It is not NEARLY as RAM- Hungry, nor resource-hungry. Not having to run three layers of A/V helps...
> The Linux community is doing a superb job of self-destructing,
And yet Linux based personal computing devices are outselling every other OS by a factor of 3 or 4 times.
Oh stop it.
Android and Chrome are about as similar to desktop Linux as DOS is to Windows NT.
It has caused huge problems for many Linux users, as evidenced by the many mailing list posts and bug reports describing serious problems with it. A recent example is how a systemd change broke tools like screen and tmux [slashdot.org].
What in the fuck us wrong with Linux devs?
systemd is nothing more than a bad cooy of OS X's launchd. Launchd has been an integral part of OS X since 10.4 (Tiger). That means that OS X had been happily using essentially the same concept as systemd for TWELVE YEARS. But even when that figure was 1 or 2 years, launchd didn't cause anywhere NEAR the problems with OS X or its Developer Community that systemd has caused in the Linux world.
So WTF is the problem? Are Linux System Devs REALLY THAT INCOMPETENT?
Maybe it's time to kick Pottering's code to the curb, take a clue from FreeBSD, and rally behind launchd. Afterall, Apple DID give it to you guys!!!
"D" (Derivative) , because letters and stuff
Yeah, guess it has been too long...
WTF are you talking about? The guy is old: he emigrated from the Ukraine decades ago, and his mom is probably dead of old age.
WTF are you talking about? The guy is old: he emigrated from the Ukraine decades ago, and his mom is probably dead of old age.
Oh geez! I'm SORRY!
I thought I was replying to another part of the thread, DUH!
Nevermind.
I would have simply agreed with your post.
With this mechanism, 64-bit programs work without requiring all the 32-bit drivers and the kernel proper to operate entirely in 64-bit mode, which was a significant time-to-market and compatibility advantage. There's a drawback in that performance isn't as good as with a pure 64-bit kernel, but Apple shipped that a few years later.
Thanks for the "props", and for the explanation. It is even cooler than I thought...
This guy's a piece of shit, but we need to contact him and somehow get him to file a barrage of lawsuits against Microsoft (probably for stuff related to forcing Win10 on everyone). That'd be funny as hell to watch.
It wouldn't work; his Mom would never let him file.
But we need to give him a break. Afterall, we're all brought up to believe in things like Justice and Fairness...