The vast, vast majority of the market, such as the tofu blocks and soy "milk" and just about everything else are NOT produced via traditional methods and are fucking terrible for you.
As somebody that eats tofu, I can tell you that on the west coast you'd have a hard time finding a tofu for sale in the store that is not made with traditional methods.
It is made like yogurt, it is easy to do with low overhead and limited labor costs. Most of the overhead is the temperature-controlled warehouse space for aging.
There is basically no innovation in this product, and no latent demand for it.
The non-traditional processing that is of concern in some products is the separation of the protein. That isn't done in tofu. That is done in imitation meat products. Basically, the cheap products use "textured vegetable protean" as a texture ingredient, which is soy protean separated in a chemical process that is consistent and predictable, but leaves some residue. So the super-store type grocery store will mostly have imitation meat products that have some controversial residues. But the brands in a health food store generally are not made with TVP, instead they grind the roasted beans to the ideal texture and combine them with fresh ingredients. These brands can also be found in the "hippie/yuppie/liberaal" section of some supermarkets.
Not all processes are evil, only the ones that chemically alter the food or that fail to return all the parts to the meal.
For example: whole wheat flour is processed in a way that retains the full edible portion of the grain, so it is processed in a healthy way. White flour has important nutrient content removed, and if it is intended as a staple food then it is evil. In small amounts, it is safe for most people. In large amounts, eating processed mono-carbs increases the risk for a variety of diseases.
If you don't understand that the human body is evolved to ingest certain specific chemicals in the amounts and forms present in our natural food sources, then there is probably no way to convince you. "Evidence" or appeals to authority should not preclude logical analysis, though all too frequently they do.
Vegetable oils change form after they've been heated too long, such as in a commercial fryer. It is not healthy to eat food cooked that way. However, the same food can be cooked at home in fresh oil and be totally safe. Chemistry matters, process matters.
It is a non-food lab, at a school. Food labs say it is chicken. It definitely has additives. But they are a small amount. There is some soy in it. The ingredients have been published. But the test that was done won't tell you how much soy there was. And I'm sure the graduate students in charge of the lab are well trained, however, they are not trained in food testing.
And none of the normal work of a forensic wildlife lab would involve finding out the relative amounts of different ingredients; instead they're experts in identifying the species represented in the sample.
It is funny to me because I've eaten so many wild mushrooms, and there are two popular kinds of truffles here, but it is the thing I never pick.
Mostly because they grow too deep. You'd need dogs. People mostly pick them in the forests near farms. I like to go out into the mountains. Everywhere I go in the forest there are cougar and bear, in addition to chipmunks and squirrels. Bringing a dog out there is a major disturbance, and can be unsafe.
But the King of Mushrooms is definitely the King Bolete, aka porcini, cep, steinpilz. Much more approachable than a truffle. Though I do buy some imported frozen flatbread from Italy with truffle sauce that is quite good.
Right now a related mushroom is in season, Boletus rex-veris the "King of Spring."
I can buy a giant 40lb bag of "juicing carrots" for $8 at the big grocery store, or a 30lb bag for $9 at the neighborhood store. It is pretty good compared to over $3 for 12oz of pasteurized juice.
If I really really wanted to, I could use place an order online for a local bicycle courier to purchase and deliver the items. But that would be embarrassing.
"Tax cuts reduce the temperature of the atmosphere!"
Eventually. Any perturbation should eventually become an oscillation. And increasing the temperature of one part of the atmosphere will likely cool another part by a much smaller amount, so there is almost certainly some local cooling at some altitude caused by local resource mismanagement that results from tax cuts.
Doesn't really help from a "negative affects on humans" perspective, though.
Right, people who call others stupid elitists and useful idiots are "sick and tired" being called "troglodyte haters." Well, guess what? If they want to stop being called troglodytes and haters, they should stop calling people names, stop hating on others, and learn what the fuck the words they're saying mean.
The word "extrajudicial" in the title of your link is a lie. If you knew the facts of the only such case, you'd know that. It was litigated by the guys family while he was alive, and also a fugitive for justice in an active war zone.
This idea that morons developed the past few years that you need some sort of warrant to shoot a known militant in a war zone is... really weird. Really really really weird. Like, wars have happened in the past, and there are even various Geneva Conventions on warfare that lay out the agreed rules for how it is done; no war anywhere in the world has ever been conducted using a system where lawyers and judges accompany the military onto the battlefield and complete paperwork before anybody fires a weapon. Never. And no war will ever be conducted that way.
In the US Civil War, did the Union soldiers need a trial, conviction, and death sentence before firing at the Confederate soldiers attacking them? No? No. A brief analysis of any war in history, or even just doing a mental exercise about "how would that work," should answer this one for you.
If you know that you're a fugitive, you know that you're in what is considered by the US Government to be a war zone, and instead of turning yourself in you have your family inside the United States sue the US Government trying to stop the order to kill you if you're found in a war zone, and they lost that case, and then you still don't turn yourself in, or leave the war zone, then there is not only no legal complaint, there is not even an unlitigated issue. The funny part is that no litigation is required, but in the one modern case of a US Citizen being the direct bomb target, it actually had already been litigated. And morons on the internet still blather on about it being "extrajudicial." Yeah, because it is war, dummy. And the judge already verified the fact. War is extrajudicial. For real reasons. But that individual's case was litigated anyway.
I paid under $350 for a leading-brand horizontal masticating juicer and it cold-presses real raw vegetables that I buy from the store, no packs required.
It can even pure almond "milk" (juice) from raw almonds.
For convenience I use a potato slicer to prep most of the veggies. Quick, easy, fresh! No app or VC required.
So you're claiming that even where the methodology is faulty, if it differently faulty in an individual case then the person under study must be suspicious?
I don't think you really understand the "faulty" part in "faulty."
Right, it sounds laughable because you used your biases to fill in assumed facts, instead of collecting actual facts.
The accusation is that the tests done in no way would have determined the amount of chicken or soy. This wasn't a legit type of DNA test.
The fact is that the results of the test do not match what was reported, at all, and what was reported is the same nonsense that people like you then repeat. And the low-information, semi-literate nature of the situation makes it impossible for Subway to fully mitigate the damage, which is why the liars who misrepresented the study are being asked to foot the bill for their lies.
Mostly that is only true of the few deadly mushrooms that contain amanitans, mostly in the genus Amanita.
The vast majority of poisonous mushrooms also taste nasty.
The one mushroom I ate that was edible, but tastes like it should be poisonous was blue-capped polypore (Albatrellus flettii). It had a weird metallic flavor. I think my exact words were, "Oh wow, I'm amazed this is actually edible!" I pity the poor soul who eats that one enough times to get a liking for it.;)
For mushrooms in the genus Russula it is normal to taste the edge of the cap as part of the identification process; the poisons in a number of species produce a burning sensation on the tongue. The lack of this sensation is an important part of the identification process for the numerous edible Russulas.
A common urban mushroom on the west coast USA is the Yellow Stainer (Agaricus xanthodermus). It is poisonous to most people, producing moderate gastrointestinal distress, however not all people are affected. Interestingly, it also tastes really nasty to people who are affected! People unable to smell the nasty phenol-like odor can usually also stomach them just fine.
But it is definitely true that the Death Cap (Amanita phalloides) gets positive reviews for their flavor.
Plants taste like asparagus because most food plants have been bred to have lower levels of acids that the plant generates to keep you from eating it. The reason is that the less extra work the plant does, the bigger it grows. When the farmers select for larger size, they're also selecting for less flavor, and the most bitter flavors are the first to go.
Asparagus is one of the minority of foods that caters to the natural cravings for some of those chemicals.
I do a lot of foraging, dozens of types of mushrooms, about a dozen berries, but only a few vegetables... but none of them taste anything like asparagus! OTOH, if I hadn't eaten in a few days and had to down some Siberian Miner's Lettuce it might actually taste half that good (it grows worldwide in temperate zones, but only in Siberia are people hungry enough that it is a vegetable)
No you moron, you have to actually read and comprehend the information. If you just heard your friend talking about soy, that has zero value. Stop repeating that shit.
The real health concerns that live next door to the horseshit you posted about estrogen[sic] applies to non-fermented soy. As in, not tofu. The fermentation process converts all that shit. The part you're saying is still a concern in tofu, is not a concern at all with tofu. That has been studied extensively at this point. Other fermented soy is also fine, such as soy sauce.
There were in fact news items talking about health problems in some brands of "soy fake meat" and other products, but it wasn't because it was made from industrial byproducts; rather, they use harsh chemicals in the processing. But only certain brands were found to have any sort of problem. The news was not that "soy fake meat" is terrible for you, the news was that certain brands of "soy fake meat" have traces of a chemical at levels the government says is safe but not everybody agrees.
Personally, I eat Tofurky brand soy "sausages" and they were not found to have any sort of industrial trace chemicals at all. Which makes sense, it is a traditionally prepared product. Traditionally priced, too...
There are two health concerns with soy: 1) daily consumption of unfermented soy as a staple food might lower IQ by as much as half a point, and related concerns and 2) some brands of cheap highly-processed fake meat contains trace chemicals at levels considered safe by the government, but that are controversial among doctors. However, the same can be said of every cheap processed food item in the supermarket!
The internet wasn't even public. If they had known Al Gore and the other "Atari Democrats" in Congress were going to come along and spend money opening it to the world, they would have started with something like IPv6. We got IPv4 because it was only for institutional communication and research. MIT is big on both of those, they do lots of work for government, for industry, and in collaboration with other institutions, in addition to their world-renowned research programs.
In that environment, anybody important enough to even plug in could get a/8. People these days still don't understand what the internet is, no wonder we're out of IPv4 addresses! If the average idiot they let plug in now understood the resource, we wouldn't even be running out of IPv4 addresses for years. We have to switch to IPv6, because the commons is a tragedy.
When a person uses the phrase, "universal truth," they're not claiming anything about being enlightened.
That was a truly legendary vocabulary fail on your part. Pathetic.
I mean, seriously. English isn't your first language, so just look up what it means.;) And if English is actually your first language, you don't quite have a first language, only a first half-language, because you're not even fluent.
I didn't read "between" the lines, I simply carried the context from a comment to the reply. If your reply didn't intend to carry the context of what it was replying to, then I can't help you with that.
Slashdot Mirror
The vast, vast majority of the market, such as the tofu blocks and soy "milk" and just about everything else are NOT produced via traditional methods and are fucking terrible for you.
As somebody that eats tofu, I can tell you that on the west coast you'd have a hard time finding a tofu for sale in the store that is not made with traditional methods.
It is made like yogurt, it is easy to do with low overhead and limited labor costs. Most of the overhead is the temperature-controlled warehouse space for aging.
There is basically no innovation in this product, and no latent demand for it.
The non-traditional processing that is of concern in some products is the separation of the protein. That isn't done in tofu. That is done in imitation meat products. Basically, the cheap products use "textured vegetable protean" as a texture ingredient, which is soy protean separated in a chemical process that is consistent and predictable, but leaves some residue. So the super-store type grocery store will mostly have imitation meat products that have some controversial residues. But the brands in a health food store generally are not made with TVP, instead they grind the roasted beans to the ideal texture and combine them with fresh ingredients. These brands can also be found in the "hippie/yuppie/liberaal" section of some supermarkets.
Not all processes are evil, only the ones that chemically alter the food or that fail to return all the parts to the meal.
For example: whole wheat flour is processed in a way that retains the full edible portion of the grain, so it is processed in a healthy way. White flour has important nutrient content removed, and if it is intended as a staple food then it is evil. In small amounts, it is safe for most people. In large amounts, eating processed mono-carbs increases the risk for a variety of diseases.
If you don't understand that the human body is evolved to ingest certain specific chemicals in the amounts and forms present in our natural food sources, then there is probably no way to convince you. "Evidence" or appeals to authority should not preclude logical analysis, though all too frequently they do.
Vegetable oils change form after they've been heated too long, such as in a commercial fryer. It is not healthy to eat food cooked that way. However, the same food can be cooked at home in fresh oil and be totally safe. Chemistry matters, process matters.
It isn't a food lab.
It is a non-food lab, at a school. Food labs say it is chicken. It definitely has additives. But they are a small amount. There is some soy in it. The ingredients have been published. But the test that was done won't tell you how much soy there was. And I'm sure the graduate students in charge of the lab are well trained, however, they are not trained in food testing.
And none of the normal work of a forensic wildlife lab would involve finding out the relative amounts of different ingredients; instead they're experts in identifying the species represented in the sample.
It is funny to me because I've eaten so many wild mushrooms, and there are two popular kinds of truffles here, but it is the thing I never pick.
Mostly because they grow too deep. You'd need dogs. People mostly pick them in the forests near farms. I like to go out into the mountains. Everywhere I go in the forest there are cougar and bear, in addition to chipmunks and squirrels. Bringing a dog out there is a major disturbance, and can be unsafe.
But the King of Mushrooms is definitely the King Bolete, aka porcini, cep, steinpilz. Much more approachable than a truffle. Though I do buy some imported frozen flatbread from Italy with truffle sauce that is quite good.
Right now a related mushroom is in season, Boletus rex-veris the "King of Spring."
I can buy a giant 40lb bag of "juicing carrots" for $8 at the big grocery store, or a 30lb bag for $9 at the neighborhood store. It is pretty good compared to over $3 for 12oz of pasteurized juice.
If I really really wanted to, I could use place an order online for a local bicycle courier to purchase and deliver the items. But that would be embarrassing.
"Tax cuts reduce the temperature of the atmosphere!"
Eventually. Any perturbation should eventually become an oscillation. And increasing the temperature of one part of the atmosphere will likely cool another part by a much smaller amount, so there is almost certainly some local cooling at some altitude caused by local resource mismanagement that results from tax cuts.
Doesn't really help from a "negative affects on humans" perspective, though.
You've got some santorum on your chin.
Right, people who call others stupid elitists and useful idiots are "sick and tired" being called "troglodyte haters." Well, guess what? If they want to stop being called troglodytes and haters, they should stop calling people names, stop hating on others, and learn what the fuck the words they're saying mean.
The word "extrajudicial" in the title of your link is a lie. If you knew the facts of the only such case, you'd know that. It was litigated by the guys family while he was alive, and also a fugitive for justice in an active war zone.
This idea that morons developed the past few years that you need some sort of warrant to shoot a known militant in a war zone is... really weird. Really really really weird. Like, wars have happened in the past, and there are even various Geneva Conventions on warfare that lay out the agreed rules for how it is done; no war anywhere in the world has ever been conducted using a system where lawyers and judges accompany the military onto the battlefield and complete paperwork before anybody fires a weapon. Never. And no war will ever be conducted that way.
In the US Civil War, did the Union soldiers need a trial, conviction, and death sentence before firing at the Confederate soldiers attacking them? No? No. A brief analysis of any war in history, or even just doing a mental exercise about "how would that work," should answer this one for you.
If you know that you're a fugitive, you know that you're in what is considered by the US Government to be a war zone, and instead of turning yourself in you have your family inside the United States sue the US Government trying to stop the order to kill you if you're found in a war zone, and they lost that case, and then you still don't turn yourself in, or leave the war zone, then there is not only no legal complaint, there is not even an unlitigated issue. The funny part is that no litigation is required, but in the one modern case of a US Citizen being the direct bomb target, it actually had already been litigated. And morons on the internet still blather on about it being "extrajudicial." Yeah, because it is war, dummy. And the judge already verified the fact. War is extrajudicial. For real reasons. But that individual's case was litigated anyway.
I paid under $350 for a leading-brand horizontal masticating juicer and it cold-presses real raw vegetables that I buy from the store, no packs required.
It can even pure almond "milk" (juice) from raw almonds.
For convenience I use a potato slicer to prep most of the veggies. Quick, easy, fresh! No app or VC required.
My goodness, child, please stop reading the summary. Think of the children! Their poor eyes! Your poor eyes!
If you continue moving your eyes over an additional couple dozen words on the menu you might discover that you can pay extra for double the meat.
You also might find out if you try it that if you ask nicely they'll give you extra cheese.
The tuna salad also has pickles and mayo, but for some reason it didn't make a headline.
So you're claiming that even where the methodology is faulty, if it differently faulty in an individual case then the person under study must be suspicious?
I don't think you really understand the "faulty" part in "faulty."
Right, did you know that the labs selected weren't even food science labs? And that the reporters then interpreted the results on their own?
There is absolutely no reason to believe them. Subway had tests run at actual food science labs, and their chicken was found to be real chicken.
It "sounds" like SLAPP to you because you're listening with your biases instead of your ears.
misinterpreted incorrectly
Oh good, they accidentally got it right!
Or did they?!?
Right, it sounds laughable because you used your biases to fill in assumed facts, instead of collecting actual facts.
The accusation is that the tests done in no way would have determined the amount of chicken or soy. This wasn't a legit type of DNA test.
The fact is that the results of the test do not match what was reported, at all, and what was reported is the same nonsense that people like you then repeat. And the low-information, semi-literate nature of the situation makes it impossible for Subway to fully mitigate the damage, which is why the liars who misrepresented the study are being asked to foot the bill for their lies.
Mostly that is only true of the few deadly mushrooms that contain amanitans, mostly in the genus Amanita.
The vast majority of poisonous mushrooms also taste nasty.
The one mushroom I ate that was edible, but tastes like it should be poisonous was blue-capped polypore (Albatrellus flettii). It had a weird metallic flavor. I think my exact words were, "Oh wow, I'm amazed this is actually edible!" I pity the poor soul who eats that one enough times to get a liking for it. ;)
For mushrooms in the genus Russula it is normal to taste the edge of the cap as part of the identification process; the poisons in a number of species produce a burning sensation on the tongue. The lack of this sensation is an important part of the identification process for the numerous edible Russulas.
A common urban mushroom on the west coast USA is the Yellow Stainer (Agaricus xanthodermus). It is poisonous to most people, producing moderate gastrointestinal distress, however not all people are affected. Interestingly, it also tastes really nasty to people who are affected! People unable to smell the nasty phenol-like odor can usually also stomach them just fine.
But it is definitely true that the Death Cap (Amanita phalloides) gets positive reviews for their flavor.
cicadas are slightly bitter.
Plants taste like asparagus because most food plants have been bred to have lower levels of acids that the plant generates to keep you from eating it. The reason is that the less extra work the plant does, the bigger it grows. When the farmers select for larger size, they're also selecting for less flavor, and the most bitter flavors are the first to go.
Asparagus is one of the minority of foods that caters to the natural cravings for some of those chemicals.
I do a lot of foraging, dozens of types of mushrooms, about a dozen berries, but only a few vegetables... but none of them taste anything like asparagus! OTOH, if I hadn't eaten in a few days and had to down some Siberian Miner's Lettuce it might actually taste half that good (it grows worldwide in temperate zones, but only in Siberia are people hungry enough that it is a vegetable)
No you moron, you have to actually read and comprehend the information. If you just heard your friend talking about soy, that has zero value. Stop repeating that shit.
The real health concerns that live next door to the horseshit you posted about estrogen[sic] applies to non-fermented soy. As in, not tofu. The fermentation process converts all that shit. The part you're saying is still a concern in tofu, is not a concern at all with tofu. That has been studied extensively at this point. Other fermented soy is also fine, such as soy sauce.
There were in fact news items talking about health problems in some brands of "soy fake meat" and other products, but it wasn't because it was made from industrial byproducts; rather, they use harsh chemicals in the processing. But only certain brands were found to have any sort of problem. The news was not that "soy fake meat" is terrible for you, the news was that certain brands of "soy fake meat" have traces of a chemical at levels the government says is safe but not everybody agrees.
Personally, I eat Tofurky brand soy "sausages" and they were not found to have any sort of industrial trace chemicals at all. Which makes sense, it is a traditionally prepared product. Traditionally priced, too...
There are two health concerns with soy: 1) daily consumption of unfermented soy as a staple food might lower IQ by as much as half a point, and related concerns and 2) some brands of cheap highly-processed fake meat contains trace chemicals at levels considered safe by the government, but that are controversial among doctors. However, the same can be said of every cheap processed food item in the supermarket!
Surely you mean "a" grammar wagon, as excepting situations of internal conflict grammar is merely a matter of style in English.
The internet wasn't even public. If they had known Al Gore and the other "Atari Democrats" in Congress were going to come along and spend money opening it to the world, they would have started with something like IPv6. We got IPv4 because it was only for institutional communication and research. MIT is big on both of those, they do lots of work for government, for industry, and in collaboration with other institutions, in addition to their world-renowned research programs.
In that environment, anybody important enough to even plug in could get a /8. People these days still don't understand what the internet is, no wonder we're out of IPv4 addresses! If the average idiot they let plug in now understood the resource, we wouldn't even be running out of IPv4 addresses for years. We have to switch to IPv6, because the commons is a tragedy.
Possession of an IP address does not create a "fiduciary responsibility."
You seen to have fell off a meme wagon.
When a person uses the phrase, "universal truth," they're not claiming anything about being enlightened.
That was a truly legendary vocabulary fail on your part. Pathetic.
I mean, seriously. English isn't your first language, so just look up what it means. ;) And if English is actually your first language, you don't quite have a first language, only a first half-language, because you're not even fluent.
Just look it up. I dare you.
I didn't read "between" the lines, I simply carried the context from a comment to the reply. If your reply didn't intend to carry the context of what it was replying to, then I can't help you with that.