Ahh, I wish it were that simple. I could just sit myself and my family down to a marathon of Fox News. Then we would be magically wisked into a universe where us and our descendants will never have to deal with climate change.
Vague specs are bad. But.. there is little I hate more than when they go the other route and try to fill in all the techical details. I've received a lot of specs that already included things like database schema complete with really bad table implementations and duplicated data all over the place.
I've done that a few times but always end up uninstalling it. There are too many sites I visit regularly where the ads aren't that obtrusive and the revenu from them is the only compensation the authors are getting for entertaiing me. And, there aren't that may sites I go to anymore where the ads are so bad that I feel I just HAVE to block them. I haven't seen any pop overs or unders or endless spawning popups in a long time. Or.. maybe the browsers are just smart enough to block that crap on their own.
Although... those damn videos that suddenly pop up out of nowhere and ambush you as you scroll... those have me coming close to blocking again!
It's too bad though, it's usually big corps that do evil stuff that makes blocking worthwile and individuals just trying to support themselves while doing what they love that have the reasonable ads.
-- If someone would write an equivalent for sysvinit or upstart, or provide a way of running logind unser sysvinit or upstart then whole bunches of whining could stop.
I'm not convinced that is true. It sounds like Systemd is pretty actively taking up the responsiblities of other parts of the system. How long before they take over something else, Gnome and KDE switch to use the Systemd way and everyone else is shut out again.
How is a Desktop manager starting a bunch of daemons anything like the Unix way? I've been using Desktop Linux for quite a while now. It used to make sense. Init loads X, X loads (X/K/G)DM which runs as or at least somehow has permission to spawn processes owned by other users. Logging in to that causes it to load whatever your default desktop or window manager is. Why would you want to run a bunch of daemons at that point?
I know the big desktop managers depend on DBus now. Is that one of them? I never got that, what is it's purpose. Interprocess communication... ok, what processes does my desktop manager need to communicate with? It talks to X and the audio server. It never used to need DBus to do that. It might talk to the applications I run inside it. They are all child processes of it so that shouldn't require any special bus. What is it communicating with? The Kernel? Why? The NSA? Martians? (j/k those last two)
Is it something to do with removable media? I never understood what was wrong with Supermount. Granted, I never looked at the code. It worked when I used it though!
Is it for "Fast User Switching"? Ok, that feature is kind of neat but couldn't it be handled at the (X/K/G)DM level? How many Linux users need Fast User Switching anyway? My wife will not use my Linux Desktop. Most people have their own computers these days anyway. Are there really that many Linux Desktop users out there that share?
Maybe I would think differently if I totally understood what they are for. Hal, Hotplug, DBus, anything-kit, etc... Linux worked fine without them. Since these things have been added I have only experienced more breakage, updates gone wrong, dependency problems, etc... I've certainly spent more time trying to debug why things wouldn't boot after a *kit change than I ever could gain by Fast User Switching! Whenever I try to understand what these additions are for... I just find what sounds to me like marketing speak or answers to problems I have NEVER experienced. I haven't tried Systemd yet but it sure is sounding like more of the same 100 fold!
Linux development is begining to remind me of "Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs". A bunch of developers are working like hell to solve the untied shoelace epidemic!
Why? I don't know how Systemd does it but on my computer I log in using XDM. XDM loads my desktop AFTER I am already logged in! KDM and GDM work this way too.
Is that anything like how K3B will not find any CD/DVD burners without KDE installed, even though it is really just a frontend for CDRecord which identifies all my drives just fine? Trying to find a decent GUI Burning program without installing one of the big two Desktops really sucks!
Microsoft: Recommends (and gets) it's own punishment for anti-competitive practices. Punishment is to donate their own software to schools, helping create another generation of locked in customers for themselves.
FCC: Refuses to regulate the internet as a utility, allows corporate interests to subvert the open internet. Recommends spending more money on getting that internet to school children.
For a little extra money you can by a commemorative edition tablet. Shaped like a toombstone each one has the engraved signature of a different Foxconn factory line worker. This is not just a tablet, it's an investment. Like a piece of art it is valuable only after the artist has died these tablets are sure to be worth more after the employee has jumped out the window.
But commercial isn't the same at all. Commercial developers are employees. They don't have to like the direction their product is going. They are paid to work on it, they are paid to do what their bosses tell them to do. I work on commercial software myself. Sometimes I don't like the direction my company takes. I can give my bosses my thoughts, sometimes it even makes a difference. At the end of the day I compromise by doing what I am told to do and they compromise by signing my paycheck.
Why would a developer who isn't being paid keep developing if they don't like the direction the project is going? It doesn't make any sense! If the decision makers aren't compromising then all they can do is either continue to fight or just give up and walk away. Donating their time and effort to a project they no longer agree with would be pretty foolish. You only get so much time and then you die. By not giving up and continuing to fight Systemd what they are doing is trying not to give up on Debian. It isn't a choice between fighting and giving in. It's a choice between fighting and giving up. No doubt many of them have a lot of time and energy already invested in Debian and would not want to lose that.
Why SHOULD they have gotten on board? Are they employees, paid to do what they are told? If not then they have every right to support or not support Systemd. They could have just forked. You can argue all day that excesive forking is unhealthy to the open source community. You could say that it spreads developers too thin and wastes time on duplicated effort. You would probably be right. It doesn't matter though. You can't expect an unpaid volunteer to keep working their asses off on something that they don't even believe in. At least rather than forking, they tried to steer the project back in a direction they could support. They didn't even try to eliminate Sysemd, they just tried to keep their prefered choices alive. Apparently the people making the choices don't care. Why should they even stay with Debian now?
Why do KDE and Gnome require Systemd as designed? Can someone explain that to me? I really don't get it. They are Desktop managers. They put decorations on windows and shortcuts plus widgets on the desktop. Systemd is an init replacement. It manages the starting of daemons. What the h377 does one have to do with the other? I think Systemd is not the only bloated, over-reaching project if this is a problem.
Yes, you are right. It is always better to not fight. If something inferior is becoming the new standard then oh well. It is better to just let it happen than to show the outside world an ounce of disagreement. As soon as a community does that they might get some internet person posting snarky comments about leaving them behind. The horror!
Apparently any Debian developer can now chose to make their package only work with Systemd. So, any maintainer of a package that he uses has the opportunity to become that jackass.
Slashdot Mirror
Sure, just redesign the Euro to be shiny paper and print enough of it to cover about a hemisphere or so.
Ahh, I wish it were that simple. I could just sit myself and my family down to a marathon of Fox News. Then we would be magically wisked into a universe where us and our descendants will never have to deal with climate change.
Screw you guys! I'm going to the Right Dimension!
Ahh!! It's so hard not to feed the troll!
Vague specs are bad. But.. there is little I hate more than when they go the other route and try to fill in all the techical details. I've received a lot of specs that already included things like database schema complete with really bad table implementations and duplicated data all over the place.
You write like a lawyer, you seem to be equating legal/illegal with right/wrong. Those are two very different things!
I've done that a few times but always end up uninstalling it. There are too many sites I visit regularly where the ads aren't that obtrusive and the revenu from them is the only compensation the authors are getting for entertaiing me. And, there aren't that may sites I go to anymore where the ads are so bad that I feel I just HAVE to block them. I haven't seen any pop overs or unders or endless spawning popups in a long time. Or.. maybe the browsers are just smart enough to block that crap on their own.
Although... those damn videos that suddenly pop up out of nowhere and ambush you as you scroll... those have me coming close to blocking again!
It's too bad though, it's usually big corps that do evil stuff that makes blocking worthwile and individuals just trying to support themselves while doing what they love that have the reasonable ads.
Well, if they truly believe that guns are good for warding off thieves and rapists then of course they wouldn't want any guns around themselves!
Umm, as it cools off? This is a humidity sensing ink, not a temperature sensing one.
Don' t ask me why one is better than the other. But.. definitely not the same thing.
"Do people seriously not think?"
Hah! Thank you for that smile!
-- If someone would write an equivalent for sysvinit or upstart, or provide a way of running logind unser sysvinit or upstart then whole bunches of whining could stop.
I'm not convinced that is true. It sounds like Systemd is pretty actively taking up the responsiblities of other parts of the system. How long before they take over something else, Gnome and KDE switch to use the Systemd way and everyone else is shut out again.
It could be a case of chasing a moving target.
How is a Desktop manager starting a bunch of daemons anything like the Unix way? I've been using Desktop Linux for quite a while now. It used to make sense. Init loads X, X loads (X/K/G)DM which runs as or at least somehow has permission to spawn processes owned by other users. Logging in to that causes it to load whatever your default desktop or window manager is. Why would you want to run a bunch of daemons at that point?
I know the big desktop managers depend on DBus now. Is that one of them? I never got that, what is it's purpose. Interprocess communication... ok, what processes does my desktop manager need to communicate with? It talks to X and the audio server. It never used to need DBus to do that. It might talk to the applications I run inside it. They are all child processes of it so that shouldn't require any special bus. What is it communicating with? The Kernel? Why? The NSA? Martians? (j/k those last two)
Is it something to do with removable media? I never understood what was wrong with Supermount. Granted, I never looked at the code. It worked when I used it though!
Is it for "Fast User Switching"? Ok, that feature is kind of neat but couldn't it be handled at the (X/K/G)DM level? How many Linux users need Fast User Switching anyway? My wife will not use my Linux Desktop. Most people have their own computers these days anyway. Are there really that many Linux Desktop users out there that share?
Maybe I would think differently if I totally understood what they are for. Hal, Hotplug, DBus, anything-kit, etc... Linux worked fine without them. Since these things have been added I have only experienced more breakage, updates gone wrong, dependency problems, etc... I've certainly spent more time trying to debug why things wouldn't boot after a *kit change than I ever could gain by Fast User Switching! Whenever I try to understand what these additions are for... I just find what sounds to me like marketing speak or answers to problems I have NEVER experienced. I haven't tried Systemd yet but it sure is sounding like more of the same 100 fold!
Linux development is begining to remind me of "Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs". A bunch of developers are working like hell to solve the untied shoelace epidemic!
Why? I don't know how Systemd does it but on my computer I log in using XDM. XDM loads my desktop AFTER I am already logged in! KDM and GDM work this way too.
They could just call /sbin/shutdown. I used KDE for years BEFORE there was such a thing as consolekit and it worked this way just fine!
Is that anything like how K3B will not find any CD/DVD burners without KDE installed, even though it is really just a frontend for CDRecord which identifies all my drives just fine? Trying to find a decent GUI Burning program without installing one of the big two Desktops really sucks!
Microsoft: Recommends (and gets) it's own punishment for anti-competitive practices. Punishment is to donate their own software to schools, helping create another generation of locked in customers for themselves.
FCC: Refuses to regulate the internet as a utility, allows corporate interests to subvert the open internet. Recommends spending more money on getting that internet to school children.
For a little extra money you can by a commemorative edition tablet. Shaped like a toombstone each one has the engraved signature of a different Foxconn factory line worker. This is not just a tablet, it's an investment. Like a piece of art it is valuable only after the artist has died these tablets are sure to be worth more after the employee has jumped out the window.
But commercial isn't the same at all. Commercial developers are employees. They don't have to like the direction their product is going. They are paid to work on it, they are paid to do what their bosses tell them to do. I work on commercial software myself. Sometimes I don't like the direction my company takes. I can give my bosses my thoughts, sometimes it even makes a difference. At the end of the day I compromise by doing what I am told to do and they compromise by signing my paycheck.
Why would a developer who isn't being paid keep developing if they don't like the direction the project is going? It doesn't make any sense! If the decision makers aren't compromising then all they can do is either continue to fight or just give up and walk away. Donating their time and effort to a project they no longer agree with would be pretty foolish. You only get so much time and then you die. By not giving up and continuing to fight Systemd what they are doing is trying not to give up on Debian. It isn't a choice between fighting and giving in. It's a choice between fighting and giving up. No doubt many of them have a lot of time and energy already invested in Debian and would not want to lose that.
Why SHOULD they have gotten on board? Are they employees, paid to do what they are told? If not then they have every right to support or not support Systemd. They could have just forked. You can argue all day that excesive forking is unhealthy to the open source community. You could say that it spreads developers too thin and wastes time on duplicated effort. You would probably be right. It doesn't matter though. You can't expect an unpaid volunteer to keep working their asses off on something that they don't even believe in. At least rather than forking, they tried to steer the project back in a direction they could support. They didn't even try to eliminate Sysemd, they just tried to keep their prefered choices alive. Apparently the people making the choices don't care. Why should they even stay with Debian now?
Why do KDE and Gnome require Systemd as designed? Can someone explain that to me? I really don't get it. They are Desktop managers. They put decorations on windows and shortcuts plus widgets on the desktop. Systemd is an init replacement. It manages the starting of daemons. What the h377 does one have to do with the other? I think Systemd is not the only bloated, over-reaching project if this is a problem.
Yes, you are right. It is always better to not fight. If something inferior is becoming the new standard then oh well. It is better to just let it happen than to show the outside world an ounce of disagreement. As soon as a community does that they might get some internet person posting snarky comments about leaving them behind. The horror!
I don't think he is saying that it is Systemd's fault. He is using it as an example of what he expects Systemd to become.
Apparently any Debian developer can now chose to make their package only work with Systemd. So, any maintainer of a package that he uses has the opportunity to become that jackass.
Hah! I took pretty much those same calls working for another internet provider. Countless!
Ugh! Windows indoctrination at such a young age!
"use to be an anti MS zealot many moons ago but changed."
I think the real question is WHO changed, us or Microsoft.