I went through the documentation to see if this was announced by a banner-trailing airplane, but it wasn't...
I'd love to play with Gnome when it's stable (haven't touched it since 0.20) but I don't want to affect the Gimp (1.0?), which is my primary app.
Can I update to 1.2 and keep using my 1.0? Gimp?
I know there are ways to keep a 1.0? GTK and a later revision on the same machine, but I'm not a bleeding-edge kind of guy. I just want to use a stable Gimp, and I don't want to drop that for Gnome.
This may be a dopey question, but I'm not ashamed to announce that when it comes to this stuff, I'm just Joe Endluser.
Jeez. I feel like I've outed myself right on the pages of Slashdot.
---------- mphall@cstone.nospam.net "Give me $20 worth of pudding, or kill me."
For the people above who are equating SPAM with other forms of mass advertising (flyers, junk snail mail, phone calls) there is one key difference. There is a TANGIBLE COST to spam for the receiver and their providers. The cost is usually more per piece than the person sending it is paying!
That's a fine assertion to make when we're speaking of the unsolicited pizza and drycleaning coupons that turn up in our mailboxes at home. The value of the labor required to crumple that up and throw it away is negligible.
On the other hand, I work at a school. Our teachers are frequently blanket-mailed offers for seminars, the latest instructional software, insurance, etc. They don't ask for it. It comes because someone sold or otherwise released a list of teachers at our school. Some people we get mail for have been gone for years, which is a testimony to how little we can do to close the barn door now. The horse wandered out several years ago.
Is the mailman taking the unsolicited mail and putting it in each teacher's box? Nope. It's addressed to the high school. He leaves it at the door. Instead, the clericals are left putting it out. They don't work for free.
Just deciding to tell the secretaries to toss it isn't a good idea, either. That's tampering with the mail. So the taxpayers get to pay for a secretary to deal with it for at least an hour a day, every day. I imagine our school isn't alone in dealing with this, and I suppose in the private sector there's a similar issue. Experience with the military tells me the same: the unit mail clerks often have to deal with a bulk-mailing that happened because some scummy used car dealership bought a unit's alpha roster at $.10 a name and went crazy with the label maker and copy machine.
I don't think spam and unsolicited snail mail are that different. They can both cost the recipient depending on the context in which they're distributed.
---------- pudding_yeti@yahoo.com "Give me $20 worth of pudding, or kill me."
...mainly because some esoteric (or maybe not) combination of win manager (Window Maker), distro (RH 5.1), and browser (the version of Communicator that shipped with RH 5.1) just didn't want to make nice.
Particularly, the forms fields would fill with random characters, which meant I couldn't even register for an upgrade when it came time to fill in my info on their web page.
Happily, I saw someone here who mentioned the glibc-compiled version in the unsupported area, managed to get it downloaded.
It works better. No more screwy random characters, and it behaves better.
I don't know if the person who posted this cry of frustration is interested in trying something else out, or if they have already, but if Netscape is all that's standing between you and losing Win98, heck, why don't you try the glibc version out? I was pretty frustrated, too, until I got it.
Incidentally, the version I ended up pulling down came from Netscape ftp site:
You'll get your choice of the full Communicator package or the standalone browser. If you go to the next directory up, there are a few more OS choices in the "unsupported" branch of the tree.
As for fonts, Times at 18 points on my 1024x768 S3V-driven display seems to display fine. I know there's a fix for even having to do that, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. Don't really need to.
Anyhow, hope that helps, if help's what you're looking for. If it isn't... well... maybe someone else was.
Toodles. ---------- pudding_yeti@yahoo.com "Give me $20 worth of pudding, or kill me."
Not to trivialize the civil rights movement, but the OSS movement is probably the closest thing we have today. In the long run, routing the Microsoft hegemony before it's too late is probably just as important.
Yeah. Virginia just marked the death of the governor known to be the most vocal and eloquent proponent of "Massive Resistance," which, among other things, caused many public schools in this state to be shut down rather than desegregate.
Someone who would deprive an entire segment of the population of a public education to keep blacks from learning in the same building as whites is probably no worse than Bill Gates, right?
Not to mention the way innocent Open Source advocates are routinely hung or burned alive with no guarantees that the people who did that to them will ever be brought to justice, and so no guarantees to their neighbors that the same fate wouldn't befall them just as easily.
And I can't wear a "Tux" shirt to the polls. They turn me away.
Red fedora at the lunch counter? Forget it. Can't even get a cup of coffee if they see my copy of The Cathedral and the Bazaar tucked under my arm.
Get some perspective, please. ---------- pudding_yeti@yahoo.com "Give me $20 worth of pudding, or kill me."
...if you consider the notion that Jesse Berst is a really poorly written Arexx script running on an Amiga 500 in some janitor/hobbyist/apocalypse-minded Amigan's basement as a last ditch jape of the wintel world.
My guess is this:
Microsoft has a secret production facility in the mountains of Tibet, provided to them by Gateway. They are quietly producing Amigas in multi-colored boxes.
At a prearranged time, to be signalled by the Berst-script announcing "I've always said 'Linux is the only real way to personal salvation, and now it appears I'm right, because JESUS NEVER LOVED FAT AGNES!", the Microsoft/Gateway marketing campaign kicks off, the neo-Amigas with "MS enhancements" flood the market under the banner "The only real alternative there ever was," the Berst script will start gradually revising its stance on the new Amigas, coyly hinting that a whole subterranean basement farm of Amigas is running the Pentagon.
Net result:
Linux is supplanted as the meme of the day by eager corporate lemmings sent off to numerous Amiga conventions for free who come back as members of an astroturf organization with the slogan "Amigas: Good enough for Andy Warhol, Good enough for Uncle Sam's Mailed Fist, Good Enough for Me."
Sometime in late 2000, just before the real millenium change, the Berst script will execute a terminal loop, Microsoft will quietly cease production of the Amigas, and the world will be plunged into a thousand years of darkness. The apocalypse won't happen, either, because Bill Gates will own controlling interest in the trinity.
---------- pudding_yeti@yahoo.com "Give me $20 worth of pudding, or kill me."
I get your point about access for others/maintaining a mailing list. Point taken. There's no one around me I'd trust on my machine because I'm not always sure what's going on with it and barely clean up after myself.:)
As for the RedHat net configurator and use outside of a graphical environment...
Barring that I'm missing your point, the way to launch a RedHat configured network interface is to exec/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/if{up/down} ppp0 (or whatever the interface is.) That's all that the RedHat configurator does, it just has the script tied to a button. I finally figured that out after getting sick of having to fire up X every time I wanted to do anything on the net, and continually screwing up my chat scripts.
As for tying up my phone line all day... agreed. Cron is better, and I intend to do it that way. Today I didn't because it was the first time I tried to log in to my box from somewhere besides in front of it (or beside it, if you want to count that time I ran an ADM3a into the serial port) and (is the self-deprecation thick enough here, yet?) didn't trust myself to set up at or cron correctly the first time.
Anyhow, thanks for a cool article... thanks for expanding on the things you took under consideration when setting your system up, and thanks for your restraint with the snotty newbie.:)
---------- pudding_yeti@yahoo.com "Give me $20 worth of pudding, or kill me."
I was pretty interested in the article on remote access when all you have is a PPP connection. The author proposed using the dyndns service, which seemed a little overblown to me, but that's why I'm writing here.
Why not just:
1. Run your ppp-on script via cron as proposed
2. ifconfig |grep addr|mail {some easy to access mailbox (Yahoo works if you can't do the POP your ISP likely provides from your office)}
3. telnet the inet addr listed under the ppp interface when you get the mail
Is that insanely insecure? Or any more insecure than the method the author proposed? It's certainly cheaper. Or am I way off because I didn't have a modem when I had Slack and there is no ifconfig command on any other Linux but RedHat. Just a newbie, here.
Second, the author said it's not possible to use RedHat's ppp configurator because of its graphical nature. Actually, as long as you tell the configurator, any user can bring the interface up, and the ifup and down scripts work just fine provided you have them in your path somewhere. I'd guess other Linuxes are like that, too, right?
Funny that I read that article today, considering this morning I fired up ppp, grepped ifconfig for inet addr, piped it into mail, drove to work, read my mail, telnetted to my box, fired up the free MIXserver I downloaded, checked my local IP (which is also dynamic) and set DISPLAY to that via telnet. Didn't use cron, just because I wanted to troubleshoot everything without the variable of a script run on a machine I couldn't look at if I screwed up.
Anyhow, $.02. And the dyndns service would sure be the deluxe way to go.
Hey everybody! I have my own domain... between 8 and 11, 1 and 3, and from 12 to six!
---------- pudding_yeti@yahoo.com "Give me $20 worth of pudding, or kill me."
Slashdot Mirror
I went through the documentation to see if this was announced by a banner-trailing airplane, but it wasn't...
I'd love to play with Gnome when it's stable (haven't touched it since 0.20) but I don't want to affect the Gimp (1.0?), which is my primary app.
Can I update to 1.2 and keep using my 1.0? Gimp?
I know there are ways to keep a 1.0? GTK and a later revision on the same machine, but I'm not a bleeding-edge kind of guy. I just want to use a stable Gimp, and I don't want to drop that for Gnome.
This may be a dopey question, but I'm not ashamed to announce that when it comes to this stuff, I'm just Joe Endluser.
Jeez. I feel like I've outed myself right on the pages of Slashdot.
----------
mphall@cstone.nospam.net
"Give me $20 worth of pudding, or kill me."
For the people above who are equating SPAM with other forms of mass advertising (flyers, junk snail mail, phone calls) there is one key difference. There is a TANGIBLE COST to spam for the receiver and their providers. The cost is usually more per piece than the person sending it is paying!
That's a fine assertion to make when we're speaking of the unsolicited pizza and drycleaning coupons that turn up in our mailboxes at home. The value of the labor required to crumple that up and throw it away is negligible.
On the other hand, I work at a school. Our teachers are frequently blanket-mailed offers for seminars, the latest instructional software, insurance, etc. They don't ask for it. It comes because someone sold or otherwise released a list of teachers at our school. Some people we get mail for have been gone for years, which is a testimony to how little we can do to close the barn door now. The horse wandered out several years ago.
Is the mailman taking the unsolicited mail and putting it in each teacher's box? Nope. It's addressed to the high school. He leaves it at the door. Instead, the clericals are left putting it out. They don't work for free.
Just deciding to tell the secretaries to toss it isn't a good idea, either. That's tampering with the mail. So the taxpayers get to pay for a secretary to deal with it for at least an hour a day, every day. I imagine our school isn't alone in dealing with this, and I suppose in the private sector there's a similar issue. Experience with the military tells me the same: the unit mail clerks often have to deal with a bulk-mailing that happened because some scummy used car dealership bought a unit's alpha roster at $.10 a name and went crazy with the label maker and copy machine.
I don't think spam and unsolicited snail mail are that different. They can both cost the recipient depending on the context in which they're distributed.
----------
pudding_yeti@yahoo.com
"Give me $20 worth of pudding, or kill me."
Particularly, the forms fields would fill with random characters, which meant I couldn't even register for an upgrade when it came time to fill in my info on their web page.
Happily, I saw someone here who mentioned the glibc-compiled version in the unsupported area, managed to get it downloaded.
It works better. No more screwy random characters, and it behaves better.
I don't know if the person who posted this cry of frustration is interested in trying something else out, or if they have already, but if Netscape is all that's standing between you and losing Win98, heck, why don't you try the glibc version out? I was pretty frustrated, too, until I got it.
Incidentally, the version I ended up pulling down came from Netscape ftp site:
ftp://ftp.netscape.com/pub/communicator/4.5/englis h/unix/unsupported/linux20_glibc2/
You'll get your choice of the full Communicator package or the standalone browser. If you go to the next directory up, there are a few more OS choices in the "unsupported" branch of the tree.
As for fonts, Times at 18 points on my 1024x768 S3V-driven display seems to display fine. I know there's a fix for even having to do that, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. Don't really need to.
Anyhow, hope that helps, if help's what you're looking for. If it isn't... well... maybe someone else was.
Toodles.
----------
pudding_yeti@yahoo.com
"Give me $20 worth of pudding, or kill me."
Yeah. Virginia just marked the death of the governor known to be the most vocal and eloquent proponent of "Massive Resistance," which, among other things, caused many public schools in this state to be shut down rather than desegregate.
Someone who would deprive an entire segment of the population of a public education to keep blacks from learning in the same building as whites is probably no worse than Bill Gates, right?
Not to mention the way innocent Open Source advocates are routinely hung or burned alive with no guarantees that the people who did that to them will ever be brought to justice, and so no guarantees to their neighbors that the same fate wouldn't befall them just as easily.
And I can't wear a "Tux" shirt to the polls. They turn me away.
Red fedora at the lunch counter? Forget it. Can't even get a cup of coffee if they see my copy of The Cathedral and the Bazaar tucked under my arm.
Get some perspective, please.
----------
pudding_yeti@yahoo.com
"Give me $20 worth of pudding, or kill me."
My guess is this:
Microsoft has a secret production facility in the mountains of Tibet, provided to them by Gateway. They are quietly producing Amigas in multi-colored boxes.
At a prearranged time, to be signalled by the Berst-script announcing "I've always said 'Linux is the only real way to personal salvation, and now it appears I'm right, because JESUS NEVER LOVED FAT AGNES!", the Microsoft/Gateway marketing campaign kicks off, the neo-Amigas with "MS enhancements" flood the market under the banner "The only real alternative there ever was," the Berst script will start gradually revising its stance on the new Amigas, coyly hinting that a whole subterranean basement farm of Amigas is running the Pentagon.
Net result:
Linux is supplanted as the meme of the day by eager corporate lemmings sent off to numerous Amiga conventions for free who come back as members of an astroturf organization with the slogan "Amigas: Good enough for Andy Warhol, Good enough for Uncle Sam's Mailed Fist, Good Enough for Me."
Sometime in late 2000, just before the real millenium change, the Berst script will execute a terminal loop, Microsoft will quietly cease production of the Amigas, and the world will be plunged into a thousand years of darkness. The apocalypse won't happen, either, because Bill Gates will own controlling interest in the trinity.
----------
pudding_yeti@yahoo.com
"Give me $20 worth of pudding, or kill me."
I get your point about access for others/maintaining a mailing list. Point taken. There's no one around me I'd trust on my machine because I'm not always sure what's going on with it and barely clean up after myself. :)
As for the RedHat net configurator and use outside of a graphical environment...
Barring that I'm missing your point, the way to launch a RedHat configured network interface is to exec /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/if{up/down} ppp0 (or whatever the interface is.) That's all that the RedHat configurator does, it just has the script tied to a button. I finally figured that out after getting sick of having to fire up X every time I wanted to do anything on the net, and continually screwing up my chat scripts.
As for tying up my phone line all day... agreed. Cron is better, and I intend to do it that way. Today I didn't because it was the first time I tried to log in to my box from somewhere besides in front of it (or beside it, if you want to count that time I ran an ADM3a into the serial port) and (is the self-deprecation thick enough here, yet?) didn't trust myself to set up at or cron correctly the first time.
Anyhow, thanks for a cool article... thanks for expanding on the things you took under consideration when setting your system up, and thanks for your restraint with the snotty newbie. :)
----------
pudding_yeti@yahoo.com
"Give me $20 worth of pudding, or kill me."
Why not just:
1. Run your ppp-on script via cron as proposed
2. ifconfig |grep addr|mail {some easy to access mailbox (Yahoo works if you can't do the POP your ISP likely provides from your office)}
3. telnet the inet addr listed under the ppp interface when you get the mail
Is that insanely insecure? Or any more insecure than the method the author proposed? It's certainly cheaper. Or am I way off because I didn't have a modem when I had Slack and there is no ifconfig command on any other Linux but RedHat. Just a newbie, here.
Second, the author said it's not possible to use RedHat's ppp configurator because of its graphical nature. Actually, as long as you tell the configurator, any user can bring the interface up, and the ifup and down scripts work just fine provided you have them in your path somewhere. I'd guess other Linuxes are like that, too, right?
Funny that I read that article today, considering this morning I fired up ppp, grepped ifconfig for inet addr, piped it into mail, drove to work, read my mail, telnetted to my box, fired up the free MIXserver I downloaded, checked my local IP (which is also dynamic) and set DISPLAY to that via telnet. Didn't use cron, just because I wanted to troubleshoot everything without the variable of a script run on a machine I couldn't look at if I screwed up.
Anyhow, $.02. And the dyndns service would sure be the deluxe way to go.
Hey everybody! I have my own domain... between 8 and 11, 1 and 3, and from 12 to six!
----------
pudding_yeti@yahoo.com
"Give me $20 worth of pudding, or kill me."