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Gtk+ and Glib 1.2.0 released
FsckYou writes "gtk+ and glib 1.2.0 just got released,
so now GNOME can use it instead 1.1.x. " Whole lotta
that GNOME stuff getting new versions these days.
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Time to upgrade again.. Joyyyy
Well, all those beta programs used beta versions of GTK+. With the 1.2.0 release expect everyone to jump to the stable branch (with waaaay less hassles).
Just in time for the new RedHat release, hmm..
I avoid RPMs - Redhat is for wimps! I've only really used the basic slakware, then installed everything else myself.
Seriously the only real way to get a system working is to compile the source yourself. Usually this means supplying the correct --prefix= switch to configure.
One thing i never understood is why anyome would use development libraries for a binary release, when it is not considered stable and the next version might not be consistent with the next....
any mirrors?
Yes! Thank you thank you. The semi-weekly recompiles WERE getting to be a bit of a pain.
Bring out the Gnome!
I'm currently using GIMP 1.1.2 and GTK+ 1.1.16. Does someone know, why GIMP does not respect GTK themes? (I've seen screenshots at gtk.themes.org and e.themes.org with themed GIMP.)
That's because you have downloaded the packages from rawhide and not upgraded to glibc 2.1. It seems glibc 2.1 compiled binaries aren't backward compatible. Either upgrade or get the src.rpm and recompile.
Well... you got me. Compiling from TGZ's is the only real way? You better not tell that you any one of the 20 computers I admin and use RPM with on an ongoign basis to let me not spend all my time compiling.
Perhaps TGZ's and slackware for everything is best if you have large amounts of free time and nothing better to do with it.
I hope this doesn't mean that I have to support three separate installations of gtk+ (1.0, 1.1 and 1.2)
There should be no problem. The GTK+-1.0 libs don't get screwed up by the new 1.2 ones. Just keep on using Gimp-1.0 until there's a new stable
one.
Yes, it *is* all a conspiracy.
>gTk is not object oriented.
Well, that's WRONG. It's written in a language
that's not object oriented, but it is as object
oriented as it gets.
(Plus there's gtk--.. even though that's a bit slow)
Does anyone on the GNOME team realize that most of the world's GUI development is not done in straight C?
Most people want C++, Java, VB, or Pascal for GUI programming.
A year from now when GTK-- is version 1.2 (which will be who knows how many versions behind GTK+)
non-GNOME fanactics might decide to do something with it.
Every good system has a small assembly core.
Around it, there is a larger chunk of C code.
Around that, one may find C++.
Around that, one finds perl, VB, Python, Java...
Well, Gtk is near the core. Qt does not have a
solid foundation to build on, and it suffers.
You might want a wrapper around Gtk, but that
is your choice.
You can't have Java without C. Something needs
to support Java you know, it doesn't generally
run native on the CPU with native video hardware
access. That something is straight C.
Up to now it's been a nightmare, like you say, and I've been recompiling the source, rather than using binary packaging. But presumably the point of 1.2 is that every program writer has the same target to aim for.
_Most_ of the versions of gtk 1.1.x have been stable; very few new features have been added over the past couple of months. It's all been bug-fixing, and bug-fixing, and bug-fixing...
Application writers who've been making us depend on features in specific Gtk releases (Gnome is the worst) have been a PITA. But presumably all apps that are depending on a 1.1.x, and that are in active development will be updated for 1.2.
? Gtk-- 0.11.2 supports gtk 1.1.14. I haven't tried it, but it seems likely that it would support 1.2 as well.
If you look above at a previous posting, Gtk-- is aiming for their 1.0 release in about a month.
The truth is, up to now most free software programmers program in C, or in a scripting language like Tcl, Perl, or Python. Arguably this is not the way to do it, but since it's free software that's the target developer audience, C is probably the best choice.
gtk has incredible developer mindshare in the free software community. Hell, even the Mozilla people decided it was easier to switch to gtk than try to get everyone to program in Motif.
Hahah, heh, hehe. Hahahoho. Hahah. Teehee.
Who cares what the world thinks? I don't. I like gtk+ and C just fine. I have no use for Java or (smirk, snigger) Pascal.
What's your point, anyway? Most of the world uses Microsoft Windows, so does that make it superior, and should all Linux users suddenly switch to Windows?
Nice troll, anyway. I just hope you're not serious.
Well, not really... :)
The problem is that it isn't "gnome-ified." It looks in it's own special place for the gtkrc and it doesn't respond to gnomecc's theme changing without restarting.
This is why I asked if Rob could rerun the "Should GIMP be gnomeified?" poll, because I'd like to see how many more yes answers there are, but I've not seen any response... *sigh*
Ditch the 1.1 stuff. However, 1.2 is obviously just as incompatible from 1.0 as 1.1 was...
I control the dates of the releases and in no
way has Red Hat ever made any attempt to even
suggest when a release should be made. In fact,
the only thing I've seen out of the Red Hat developers is quality work and an intense desire
to work and help everyone else.
Shawn T. Amundson
amundson@gtk.org
ok so it doesn't have to be Microsoft visual basic. But Linux needs something like it if it wants to be serious on the corporate desktop.
of course, not everyone cares about getting linux on the corporate desktop but if you do...
You can symbolically link
~/.gtkrc to ~/.gnome/gtkrc
Then gnome and non-gnome apps will use the same
themes. Of course the non-gnome apps will not
change on-the-fly from gnomecc, but hey, what
do you want for free ?
PyGnome is just soooo nice.....
Yes. I prefer to program in C++ not only for GUIs but also for system softwares.
I don't understand why Linux kernel still in C.
C is faster? No way.
Any plan for Linux kernel to switch to C++?
a Linux Newbie
Redhat and rpms (or Debian and debs) are for people who use linux to get stuff done.
tar.gz's are for people who use linux because they don't have anything better to do.
Personally, I use linux to get stuff done. I'm perfectly capable of compiling from a source tar.gz, but I have better things to do with my time, so I use rpms.
The Linux kernel developers like C better than C++. Since they're spending their free time writing a kernel for us to use, hey, why complain when they want to use C?
More like libgtk.so.1.2.x, however since it's the stable and therefore new features won't be added, programs can link to libgtk.so.1.2 and not have to worry about what version of the library the user has.
If you like Delphi and ObjectPascal (a very different beast from Pascal) check out:
http://www.megido.il.eu.org
Again stupid piece of Gnome news. KDE and Gnustep and CDE are going send Gnome out of this fucking galaxy!
Sorry, I wanted to express that I'm sick and
tired of desktop news. Gnome is going to be OK,
really.
I very much welcome projects like KDE, Gtk+, Gnome etc. Having to do much work in X, It makes work much more efficient to have many small accessible tools available - hopefully no more switching XTerms to check thing x,y,z!
While needing to ignore non-isomorphisms between viable metaphors in each, how long do you think it will be before i can work as powerfully in a GUI as I can at a terminal?
What system software have you written in C++? If you don't mind me asking. I'm just curious about your experience before you say that C++ is superior for kernel development.
Jeez... next thing we know you'll be bitching about kernel releases because Gnome runs on them or libc releases because gnome uses them.
gtk+ is a windowing library, Gnome is a desktop environment. There's a small difference (this is sarcasm folks).
And are you just pulling desktop environments out of your ass? CDE? who the hell uses that anymore?
Well, to those who only use RPM's, fine -- all the better for you. However, sometimes there simply is not a decent rpm for what you need. Also, the configuration options when you build yourself are often much greater. IMO, the _real_ PITA comes when you have a mix of rpm and home-compiled stuff, and rpm gets confused. Further, those stupid rpm database files can eventually grow to NP-large purportions. This is dumb.
RPM is nice, but has severe limits. The FreeBSD system is a neat model.
yes? CDE has bugs.
if any of you tried building mozilla with latest and gtk 1.2 how far from stable is it?
Who the fuck wants a mainstream OS?
Mainstream USA - I flipped that guy the Bird..
Mainstream USA - That's all I want to say
That's all I wanna say
That's all I'm
gonna
say
The flickering can be eliminated when updating a listbox yehh, but what I had in mind was :
Start up the testgtk program.
Launch the "button" something part where you have many,many buttons inside a scrolledwindow. Now resize the window by dragging the window handle around. Why do all button have to be repainted ?
It would be much better if the ones that we just needed to got redrawn. Im not sure since it might be a wm issue...
On the other hand, look at a listbox with many items in it. Scroll the listbox, see how nice updated everything is.
Btw, Have you guys ever tried to control testgtk with just the keyboard ???, Thats one of the parts where Qt kicks gtk butt.
But we are getting there!
GLIB and GTK+ versions 1.1 had some inconsistancies in their sonames, leading to all kind of weirdness. I deleted some older 1.1.x versions of these libraries and some, but not all, apps failed to work due to not being able to locate the libraries.
/usr/local/lib I had to manually run ldd * on /usr/local/bin and others to find which apps were broken, and then recompile them.
I found that after any major pruning of
This means that now when any new GLIB or GTK is released the soname with always be the same. Less recompiling!
Anybody interested in posting a summary of new features/improvements? How are the C++ bindings? What about GL support? I heard the Canvas widget is pretty cool but whats it all about? Thanks.
How do I keep the old GTK and the new GTK working together via rpm
This is list of gimp mirrors, where you can (ussualy) find also gtk.
p /
g /
m p.org/
Mirror Sites------------
Africa
ftp://ftp.is.co.za/applications/gimp/
Australia
ftp://ftp.au.gimp.org/pub/gimp/ ftp://gimp.zeta.org.au/
ftp://ftp.progsoc.uts.edu.au/pub/
Austria
ftp://gd.tuwien.ac.at/graphics/gimp/
Belgium
ftp://gimp.rug.ac.be/ http://gimp.rug.ac.be/ftp/ (web access)
Crotia
ftp://ftp.linux.hr/pub/gnome/
Finland
ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/sci/graphics/packages/gimp
France
ftp://stef.u-picardie.fr/mirror/ftp.gimp.org/
ftp://ftp.minet.net/pub/gimp/
Germany
ftp://infosoc.uni-koeln.de/pub/ftp.gimp.org/
Greece
ftp://sunsite.ics.forth.gr/sunsite/pub/gimp/
Italy
ftp://ftp.psy.unipd.it/pub/linux/ftp.gimp.org/
ftp://linux.keycomm.it/pub/linux/ftp.gimp.org/
Japan
ftp://SunSITE.sut.ac.jp/pub/archives/packages/gim
ftp://ftp.u-aizu.ac.jp/pub/graphics/tools/gimp/
ftp://ring.aist.go.jp/pub/graphics/gimp/
ftp://ring.asahi-net.or.jp/pub/graphics/gimp/
ftp://ring.so-net.ne.jp/pub/graphics/gimp/
ftp://ring.nacsis.ac.jp/pub/graphics/gimp/
http://ring.aist.go.jp/pub/graphics/gimp/ (web access)
http://ring.asahi-net.or.jp/pub/graphics/gimp/ (web access)
http://ring.so-net.ne.jp/pub/graphics/gimp/ (web access)
http://ring.nacsis.ac.jp/pub/graphics/gimp/ (web access)
Korea
ftp://ftp.kreonet.re.kr/pub/tools/X11/ftp.gimp.or
Poland
ftp://ftp.tuniv.szczecin.pl/pub/Linux/gimp
ftp://sunsite.icm.edu.pl/pub/graphics/gimp
Romania
ftp://ftp.kappa.ro/pub/mirrors/mirrors-2/ftp.gi
Sweden
ftp://ftp.acc.umu.se/pub/gimp ftp://ftp.sunet.se/pub/gnu/gimp/
http://ftp.sunet.se/pub/gnu/gimp/ (web access)
Taiwan
ftp://linux.cis.nctu.edu.tw/pub/packages/X/gimp/
Turkey
ftp://ftp.hun.edu.tr/pub/linux/gimp
http://ayna.hun.edu.tr/ayna/www.gimp.org (web)
United Kingdom
ftp://ftp.flirble.org/pub/X/gimp/ ftp://ftp.lmh.ox.ac.uk/pub/linux/
United States
ftp://ftp.insync.net/pub/mirrors/ftp.gimp.org/
ftp://ftp.cs.umn.edu/pub/gimp/
ftp://hal.res.wpi.net/mirror/ftp.gimp.org/
ftp://froody.res.cmu.edu/pub/gimp/ ftp://ftp.randomc.com/pub/mirrors/gimp/
ftp://gimp.cs.stevens-tech.edu/mirrors/gimp/
ftp://gimp.chillin.org/pub/gimp.org-mirror/ (down until Sept. 1)
ftp://ftp.ameth.org/pub/mirrors/ftp.gimp.org/
http://www.ameth.org/gimp/ (web access)
Hi,
Gtk+ is quite nice, but :
1) Keybindings must be improved much more.
2) Keep down flickering
3) Unify the widget properties
But it is a awesome improvement over 1.0
Well said.
Dont't let the conspiracy buffs get to you
Oh my, Linux 2.2 was released just in time for redhat 6.0 as well - it must be a conspiracy.
What? Are you still using C++. D+++ is much better.
Please alter my pants as fashion dictates.
First off, the article is about Gtk, not GNOME.
You don't need to use or want GNOME to use Gtk.
Secondly, Gtk-- tracks Gtk development closely.
And third, there are Gtk bindings for at least a dozen languages, including Free Pascal, ADA, Eiffel, and Python, most of which are far preferable to crufty old C++.
It should also be pointed out that Motif has been the most used widget set on unix systems, and that is a C toolkit.
The summary of new features is right on the front page at www.gtk.org.
Umm, did you read the article?
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
Only for as long as it takes to recompile those programs for 1.2. (which I predict will happen within a week.)
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
Does anyone on the GNOME team realize that most of the world's GUI development is not done in straight C?
Most people want C++, Java, VB, or Pascal for GUI programming.
Does anyone on the Linux team realize that most of the world's development is not in Linux?
Most people want Windows for development.
See how ridiculous that sounds? Just because something is different doesn't make it bad. While I'll admit that object-oriented languages are far better suited to GUI development, I honestly think the GTK+/GNOME team made the right choice with C. Why? Because it is much easier to develop bindings for other languages, including object-oriented ones, in C. For those who don't believe me, I'd like to point out that the first C++ compilers weren't compilers at all; they "compiled" the code to C and =ran it through a C compiler. Eiffel compilers still do this, and Eiffel is much more object-oriented than C++. The point: yes, programming "straight" GTK isn't as easy, on account of the fact that it's in C. However, it's much more flexible in the area of language bindings.
Oh, and by the way, you're overestimating the importance of version numbers. Simply because GTK+ is at version 1.2 does not necessarily mean that GTK-- has to be at the same version number, even if it supports version 1.2 (though I do think that this would be a wise decision on the part of the GTK-- team). Version numbers really only mean one thing: that the programmer decided to give the program that number.
If you look in the RPM directories, you should find packages called glib10-1.0.6-2 and gtk+10-1.0.6-2 (or something similar). These are the 1.0 versions, and can exist concurrently with the newer versions. If you have a recent version of Redhat, I think you will already have these installed, so you should be able to just upgrade the standard glib and gtk packages.
--
For every post, there is an equal and opposite re-post.
Oh, I still have to use it :)
It's ugly and lacks all those cool features
you get with OSS counterparts, but it gives me less hassle than to try to install and configure
stuff by myself -> I get more real work done.
-T
-- "Fortune Presents Gifts Not According to The Book" -DCD CS @ Helsinki University of Technology
- Gtk--
- VDK
- wxWindows/GTK
They each have different approachs to wrapping. Gtk-- with the straight wrapper, VDK with a more Borland type wrapper, and wx/Gtk with the wxWindows standard. Depending on how much or how little you wish to see Gtk code, take your pick.Gtk-- (which I work on) is currently in beta after a rather long infancy period. We intend to release a 1.0 cut with the next month.
GL support for Gtk is very good. You can render direcly in a window or in a pixmap. See GtkGLArea for more details.
There is even a GL widget in the Gtk-- project. It will be a week or two before it is up to date with the gtk+ 1.2 (basically because it has the largest number of dependencies). If you are interested drop by the GtkGLArea-- website.
--Karl
Gtk-- Contributor
Yea!
This is one more "check" for the RedHat 6.0 wish list!
I have waiting this 1.2 since far ago.
Congratulations to the gtk+ team!
C-ya
Oliver
Get my e-mail after a captcha test in: http://tinymailt
Or simply delete ~/.gimp-1.1/gtkrc
It works fine without it, either using the default theme or picking up the theme fom ~/.gtkrc
Chris Wareham
Finally, man you don't know how many applications I could break by trying to install the devel libs, even with the additional stable compatibility libraries. It was starting to make qt look good. Not any more.
:)
Less to worry about now
The problem seems to be not so much that the different development versions of Gtk+ weren't compatible with each other (the incompatibilities were well-known as far as I could tell) but that developers of other packages insisted on releasing software that depended on libraries known to be in development. Debian seems to have dealt well with the Gtk+-1.1 incompatibilities, but at the cost of having close to a dozen different versions of the same library in the unstable tree.
Now that Gtk+-1.2 is out, hopefully everybody will fix those last little incompatibilities, and we can be back to having one active version of the library. *sigh*
Do you have to download a new SRPM every time a new one comes out, or is there some way to patch an SRPM?
There was an extensive thread about this in
one of the kernel-lists, apparently. You might be able to dig it up.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
I went through the documentation to see if this was announced by a banner-trailing airplane, but it wasn't...
I'd love to play with Gnome when it's stable (haven't touched it since 0.20) but I don't want to affect the Gimp (1.0?), which is my primary app.
Can I update to 1.2 and keep using my 1.0? Gimp?
I know there are ways to keep a 1.0? GTK and a later revision on the same machine, but I'm not a bleeding-edge kind of guy. I just want to use a stable Gimp, and I don't want to drop that for Gnome.
This may be a dopey question, but I'm not ashamed to announce that when it comes to this stuff, I'm just Joe Endluser.
Jeez. I feel like I've outed myself right on the pages of Slashdot.
----------
mphall@cstone.nospam.net
"Give me $20 worth of pudding, or kill me."
----------
mphall@cstone.nospam.net
"A horse laugh is worth a thousand syllogisms"
Is the problem solved?
I should recompile the GIMP and other GTK based
programs whenever newer version of GTK/GLIB came
out.
There are some inconvenience with GTK.
1. The different so name.
2. higher versions of GTK/GLIB can't embrace
lower versions. ( no compatibility, not at
all though. )
I wish someday it will be solved completely.
One thing I am starting to hate about the binary distributions that are available for GTK programs: Every one I download seems to require a different version of GTK. Prog 1 requires gtk-1.1.11, Prog 2 requires gtk-1.1.13, Prog 3 requires gtk 1.1.14, so in order to get them all to work you need multiple versions of gtk installed. It's better to just go and re-compile the source.
People, if binary distros and rpm's are ever going to catch on, you have to release programs that are forward- and backward- compatible with different versions of commonly used libs. And I consider gtk and glib commonly used at this point, even if they are development (1.1.x) versions. It's probably a PITA to do this, cause development libs change alot, but sheesh, anyone who has ever tried to install GNOME and any other GTK app in existance from rpm's knows what I mean.
Until these problems are solved, "use the source, luke" will be the only truly failsafe way to install.
Oooh yeah.
1.3 will rock.
I heard they'll rewrite the entry and text widgets for unicode BiDi,
besides, development versions are the best.
---
---
I'm going to live forever, or die in the attempt.
Red Hat is not Intel, and has done vastly more to aid free software than has a company like TrollTech which had to have its arm twisted to release the QT source under more restrictive terms than GPL.
If those of us who are presently stuck with Win95/98 at work are ever to get a chance to use Linux in our US corporate workplaces, it will likely be due to the tremendous efforts and integrity of Red Hat Software.
...damn' I am strident in the morning!
G
Hmm, there is a nice util hanging around called
SmartInstall at http://www.iae.nl/users/grimaldo/OpenSoft/
that keeps a small dbase of all your compiled and installed sources. You can do a install -E foobar
to clean out installed packages. install -L all
lists all your efforts. recommendations for all
compile-freaks....
Looks as though the sites have been slashdotted.
Does anyone have a list of mirror sites they
could post?
Thanks!
This isn't GNOME news. It's GIMP news. CmdrTaco should have used the Wilber the GIMP icon instead. ;-)
-Shawn