Your point is well taken, but speaking personally, I like the idea that the source code *has* to be made available if a project is GPL'd. This is a restriction on my ability to distribute software that I can live with, and I think that it helps the community as a whole to keep this restriction in place.
I don't think anyone here is debating that. The questions are: was this a good move; should other software projects do the same thing; does this help open source?
Ironically enough, we already have exactly this situation with respect to KDE and GNOME, except that the relationships are reversed. KDE and GNOME are both under GPL; however, Qt is only avaiable for Win32 (native) under a proprietary, commercial license; the GPL applies only to the X11 version of Qt. Meanwhile, GTK+ for Win32 is available under the GPL.
A theoretical port of KDE to Windows (using Qt) is not possible at this point, but a theoretical port of GNOME to Windows (using GTK+) might be, depending on the quality of the port.
However, Qt is still able to grab more mindshare than GTK+ or wxWindows for Windows development, despite the fact that it's not free. This is because Qt has a reputation as superior (easier-to-use, more goodies) toolkit for Linux development than the C++ port of GTK+, and because Trolltech is pushing Qt for educational use.
End result: developers are more likely to sell their employers on Qt for Windows than on wxWindows or GTK+, even though it's a commercial package. Corolary: Trolltech makes some (IMO) well-deserved money.
Re:Selling but not demanding payment
on
GPL FAQ
·
· Score: 2
It is a purely academic distinction. Honestly, people simply DON"T pay for GPLed software.
Well that depends, doesn't it? I paid three bucks for a copy of Mandrake 8.0 GPL edition from Cheapbytes. Am I paying for the software, or am I paying Cheapbytes for the service of putting it on a CD-ROM?
If I buy a copy of Mandrake 8.0 from Mandrake herself, for $50 (or whatever), am I paying for the GPL software AND the proprietary software (and other stuff), or just for the proprietary software (and other stuff)?
You might be right; maybe people don't pay for the GPL software; instead they're paying for services rendered or for documentation or for the pretty packaging or something else. But they're paying for something, and that says a lot in my mind.
I suspect that the GNU people didn't intend the FAQ as a response to Mundie. That having been said, this FAQ is the best reply to Mundie's FUD that I've seen yet. It is succinct, informative, non-inflamatory, and talks in terms that people can understand without an extensive legal background.
We should distribute this far and wide. We should put this on T-shirts and posters. We should make folders and notebooks with this stuff on it. We should take out full page ads in the Technology section and put this in there. We should put it on cerial boxes if we possibly can.
It won't promote the GPL much, but it will allow people to make informed opinions about the GPL, which is as good as a victory in my book.
Re:Is the shakeup for financial reasons ?
on
Mandrake Shakeup
·
· Score: 1
I'm sorry to hear about your friend. Has he considered looking for work at IBM or TripWire? Or for that matter, RuleSpace? There's plenty of Linux jobs out there in the Portland OR economy...just not a hell of a lot of Java jobs...
Well, at least it's nice to see that both sides are flinging racist crap today.
There is no evidence of South American natives having created a civilization that lasts longer than 500 years. Meanwhile, white people created the Roman Empire, which lasted either 1000 or 1500 years, depending on whether or not you count the Byzantines as Roman; and the Indian civilization, which has lasted almost 4000 years and has preserved its native religion almost intact all this time. This rivals the longevity of the Chinese and the Egyptians.
It's also worth pointing out that "white culture," if there is such a thing, is just as much "corrupted" by Chinese and Japanese culture as Chinese and Japanese culture are "corrupted" by whites. (And yes, Chinese culture has been "corrupted" by whites. Or did you think Marx, Engles and Lenin were all Chinese?)
Your claim that the Japanese culture has been subjugated by the Whites is laughable at best. Changed, certainly, but hardly subjugated.
So let's assume for the time being that Kennewick man is a Caucasian. All that that proves is that at some point, some Caucasian tribe crossed the Bering Sea, probably while it was frozen over. Does this really surprise anyone? Does it really prove anything about which set of genes (black, white, asian, "other") is better? I would suggest the answer to both questions is no. Nor does it give those of European decent any claim to being "native" Americans, since, in all likelihood, none of the modern European tribes are decended from the Kennewick Man or his fellow tribesmen.
BTW, it might help, next time, if you didn't simply resort to plagiarizing a white supremacist website.
I see two places where Mundie's attacks are directed.
Suits in traditional industries who make IT buying decisions. Mundie's basic goal is to scare these people into thinking that a company that uses GPL software automatically surrenders their intellectual property rights. This is, of course, total nonsense, but there are a lot of people out there who are paranoid and/or clueless enough to believe it.
Investors. Oh, not VC investors, at least not at first. VCs tend to be clueful. But Joe and Jane Average don't know the details of the GPL or the businesses that make their living off of GPL software, and they're going to look at Craig Mundie's comments and keep their investment dollars away from Linux based companies. VCs will then follow suit, if only because they know that the public won't go for stocks in Linux-based companies.
I believe this is quite literally the best response that Microsoft has to the threat of the GPL: if you can't beat it on technical merits, strangle the money supply instead.
Microsoft knows what would happen if Red Hat and VA Linux Systems went under: whole segments of the open source community, including Slashdot and Sourceforge, would suddenly find themselves quite strapped for cash. Linux and OSS development would be permanently crippled, at least relative to today's heady pace. Eventually, Microsoft would once again beat Linux on technical merits.
The best solution to this problem is for companies like Red Hat and VA Linux to turn a profit, and soon. This is realistic for Red Hat; I'm really really hoping that it will also be realistic for VA soon.
Wow, that's sure an impressive list of open source advocates. But, just as noticible is the lack of people from the BSD camp who have endorsed this statement. I'm curious: is this because they weren't invited or consulted? Is this because the BSD community thinks this statement is silly? Help me out here.
3. Borg - If the show has *any* hope of keeping fans happy they WONT appear. Picard and his crew encountered them first, WELL after TOS, and
the show canon says Borg *did not* get to our space before that.
What about Star Trek, First Contact? According to this movie, the Borg were in our solar system way back in the 21st Century when Humans first discovered warp technology. That would predate the new series, and possibly give the writers a loophole through which to introduce the Borg.
OK, I'll grant you that this would be (1) lame, (2) lame and (3) very lame of Paramount, but it's not impossible.
I do have pity for some students, mostly because I'm skeptical about possible false positives. Intuitively, six-word phrases shouldn't match from paper to paper, but what I'm not seeing here is scientific verification that the professor's code can reliably (low false negatives) and accurately (low false positives) tell the difference between two students with similar writing style (on the one hand) and actual plagiarism (on the other). This especially bugs me because I'm left wondering whether the results of the professor's analyzer are being used as evidence against the accused students.
I'm also concerned that someone might have gotten their hands on the professor's analyzer, and then written a script to alter individual papers in order that the analyzer wouldn't pick it up. (I know this is unlikely, but the point is, without more evidence, I don't know how unlikely this is.)
Please understand, I worked my ass off for my (sometimes admittedly miserable) grades and I'd love to see cheaters strung up by their feet and used as pinatas. I'd just like to make absolutely positively sure that they cheated before it happens.
Frankly, I'm skeptical that performing this kind of lexical analysis on source code could be helpful, especially if the class places strong emphasis on good coding style. Maybe a better method is to try what we had at Purdue so many years back...compare the runtimes and memory footprints of each submitted program, and if you get a match between two programs, start the investigation.
Timmy (yes, little Timmy) tries to look at a web page on sexual reproduction, from a science web site. The web site is blocked. Timmy emails AOL and tells them that www.encyclopedia.com/sex-education/ is unfairly blocked. AOL sends this to RuleSpace. RuleSpace looks at the site, figures out that it's not porn, wonders how the hell the AI flubbed that up, unblocks the site.
Alternatively, Billy (Timmy's pal) tries to go to www.moreporn.com and finds it blocked. Billy complaines to AOL, who sends the complaint to RuleSpace. RuleSpace laughs their asses off.
You can vote something as censorable similarly. Joe Camel sees www.hotbabeslickingeachother.com even though the filters are on. Pleased to see the website (but dismayed that it got past parental controls), Joe Camel complains to AOL, who complains to RuleSpace. RuleSpace wonders how the hell this site got past the AI and adds it to the list of blocked sites.
Alternatively, Aunt Gwen who still lives in the 1890s could look at a site that depicts a couple kissing in public and complain to AOL that it's pornographic. AOL sends this on to RuleSpace. RuleSpace laughs their asses off.
I wonder if AOL has taken the time to filter regular expressions such as pr0n/s3x/etc. Then I also wonder how are kids doing homework on "sexual
reproduction" or "sexual organisms" are going to fair when using AOL.
I suggest you try this for yourself using AOL's parental controls. Alternatively, you can read the Wired article...it appears that the neural net is smart enough to tell the difference between pornography (or p0rn0gr4fi3) and sex education, STDs, etc.
You've just managed to get the stock price back over $70 a share for the first time since Jackson nailed your corporate balls to the wall.
You just managed to put out a pretty damn good operating system in the form of Windows 2000. And you're just getting started with.NET, which, yeah, is a Java ripoff, but it's at least a fairly solid idea.
And now, from all appearances, you're ready to shoot yourselves in the foot.
Windows XP? The operating system that'll break every time you install a bit of hardware? This is reminiscent of Commodore when they cut out a piece of their motherboard rather than let users install a part themselves.
FUD campaign against Linux and Open Source? Who are you kidding? Nobody's paying attention to your opinions on the matter anymore, and for good reason. Everyone knows you have a bias; everyone who's paying attention has seen the Halloween Documents; and too many big names (like IBM and Oracle) have embraced Linux, which is pretty much the OSS standard bearer.
This is going to smell like desperation on your parts, and this is going to drive your share price down.
You get no argument from me there. The idea of freedom, real freedom, is anathema to big governments dominated by greed and lust for power.
Kent State, Tienanmen, Prague Spring, Chicago 1968, Seattle, all signs of a totalitarian mindset spurred into violent action by sheer panic. No problem. Just don't fool yourself into thinking that the tolerance threshholds aren't different between the US and China. Here, I can call the government a bunch of jackboots and (usually) not get shot.
Problem is, it is cut-and-dried. But it's cut-and-dried only to those who've thought about it, and who have made a decision between two
mutually-exclusive points of view:
(snip)
That's not a bad way of summing things up, although I might suggest that it is possible for someone to consider one who lacks the capability for even rudimentary cognative activity (e.g., the brain dead) to be essentially soulless. But that depends on how one defines the soul ("fundamental algorithm?")
And as soon as we get really good with the genetic engineering, I want my own half height clone to mow my
lawn.
The year is 2015, and Internet legend CmdrTaco has received a fully grown half-height clone, whom he has named Tacillo.
CmdrTaco OK clone, now mow the lawn! Tacillo Mow the damn lawn yourself, Taco boy. CmdrTaco (incredulous) Why you little prick! I made you to mow my goddamn lawn! Now mow the goddamn lawn!! Tacillo Fuck you, I'm not mowing your goddamn lawn. And by the way, if I'm a little prick, it's only because you're a big prick! CmdrTaco (Pissed) YOU...YOU... Tacillo Never thought your genetic material would turn on you, eh Taco boy? (Gives CmdrTaco the finger) Now piss off before I punch you in your now-redundant nuts. CmrdTaco[Censored by the FCC. Have a nice day!] Tacillo You said it yourself Taco Bell, you made me. I'm going to surf for porn. Deal with it.
Yeah, unfortunately. Many of these chess
programs are written to run on specialized hardware (for example: Deep Blue ran on a custom made machine optimized to traverse trees very quickly). Putting them all on one platform to run the genetic algorithm would necessarily bias the selection algorithm in favor of the program whose native hardware was closest to the host platform.
There's also the matter of fundamental algorithm incompatibilities: neural nets are not alpha-beta trees are not apples are not oranges. I'm not sure combining neural nets with alpha-beta trees would work in this context (although a neural net might make an interesting heuristic function).
For example, I'd rather see chain-reacting radioactives being used to make electricity than sitting in missile silos.
I agree whole-heartedly:)
For that matter, why can't we just dump the radioactives down a subduction fault? They're heavy, so won't they sink into the mantle quite nicely?
I think a better idea would be to take the suggestion that others have made on this thread, and use a liquid-metal reactor that just keeps burning the waste until it's down to practically nothing. It's more energy efficient and cleaner to boot.
Still, as long as people are afraid of a possible china syndrome or chernobyl, this isn't likely to be a very popular solution.
Slashdot Mirror
Your point is well taken, but speaking personally, I like the idea that the source code *has* to be made available if a project is GPL'd. This is a restriction on my ability to distribute software that I can live with, and I think that it helps the community as a whole to keep this restriction in place.
ObJectBridge (GPL'd Java ODMG) needs volunteers.
I don't think anyone here is debating that. The questions are: was this a good move; should other software projects do the same thing; does this help open source?
ObJectBridge (GPL'd Java ODMG) needs volunteers.
Ironically enough, we already have exactly this situation with respect to KDE and GNOME, except that the relationships are reversed. KDE and GNOME are both under GPL; however, Qt is only avaiable for Win32 (native) under a proprietary, commercial license; the GPL applies only to the X11 version of Qt. Meanwhile, GTK+ for Win32 is available under the GPL. A theoretical port of KDE to Windows (using Qt) is not possible at this point, but a theoretical port of GNOME to Windows (using GTK+) might be, depending on the quality of the port.
However, Qt is still able to grab more mindshare than GTK+ or wxWindows for Windows development, despite the fact that it's not free. This is because Qt has a reputation as superior (easier-to-use, more goodies) toolkit for Linux development than the C++ port of GTK+, and because Trolltech is pushing Qt for educational use.
Meanwhile, wxWindows (which is LGPL except that you can distribute derived works any way you like) has almost no mindshare (relatively speaking), even though it's an equivalent toolkit to Qt and is more portable than GTK or Qt.
End result: developers are more likely to sell their employers on Qt for Windows than on wxWindows or GTK+, even though it's a commercial package. Corolary: Trolltech makes some (IMO) well-deserved money.
ObJectBridge (GPL'd Java ODMG) needs volunteers.
Well that depends, doesn't it? I paid three bucks for a copy of Mandrake 8.0 GPL edition from Cheapbytes. Am I paying for the software, or am I paying Cheapbytes for the service of putting it on a CD-ROM?
If I buy a copy of Mandrake 8.0 from Mandrake herself, for $50 (or whatever), am I paying for the GPL software AND the proprietary software (and other stuff), or just for the proprietary software (and other stuff)?
You might be right; maybe people don't pay for the GPL software; instead they're paying for services rendered or for documentation or for the pretty packaging or something else. But they're paying for something, and that says a lot in my mind.
ObJectBridge (GPL'd Java ODMG) needs volunteers.
We should distribute this far and wide. We should put this on T-shirts and posters. We should make folders and notebooks with this stuff on it. We should take out full page ads in the Technology section and put this in there. We should put it on cerial boxes if we possibly can.
It won't promote the GPL much, but it will allow people to make informed opinions about the GPL, which is as good as a victory in my book.
ObJectBridge (GPL'd Java ODMG) needs volunteers.
I'm sorry to hear about your friend. Has he considered looking for work at IBM or TripWire? Or for that matter, RuleSpace? There's plenty of Linux jobs out there in the Portland OR economy...just not a hell of a lot of Java jobs...
ObJectBridge (GPL'd Java ODMG) needs volunteers.
There is no evidence of South American natives having created a civilization that lasts longer than 500 years. Meanwhile, white people created the Roman Empire, which lasted either 1000 or 1500 years, depending on whether or not you count the Byzantines as Roman; and the Indian civilization, which has lasted almost 4000 years and has preserved its native religion almost intact all this time. This rivals the longevity of the Chinese and the Egyptians.
It's also worth pointing out that "white culture," if there is such a thing, is just as much "corrupted" by Chinese and Japanese culture as Chinese and Japanese culture are "corrupted" by whites. (And yes, Chinese culture has been "corrupted" by whites. Or did you think Marx, Engles and Lenin were all Chinese?)
Your claim that the Japanese culture has been subjugated by the Whites is laughable at best. Changed, certainly, but hardly subjugated.
ObJectBridge (GPL'd Java ODMG) needs volunteers.
BTW, it might help, next time, if you didn't simply resort to plagiarizing a white supremacist website.
ObJectBridge (GPL'd Java ODMG) needs volunteers.
I believe this is quite literally the best response that Microsoft has to the threat of the GPL: if you can't beat it on technical merits, strangle the money supply instead.
Microsoft knows what would happen if Red Hat and VA Linux Systems went under: whole segments of the open source community, including Slashdot and Sourceforge, would suddenly find themselves quite strapped for cash. Linux and OSS development would be permanently crippled, at least relative to today's heady pace. Eventually, Microsoft would once again beat Linux on technical merits.
The best solution to this problem is for companies like Red Hat and VA Linux to turn a profit, and soon. This is realistic for Red Hat; I'm really really hoping that it will also be realistic for VA soon.
ObJectBridge (GPL'd Java ODMG) needs volunteers.
Wow, that's sure an impressive list of open source advocates. But, just as noticible is the lack of people from the BSD camp who have endorsed this statement. I'm curious: is this because they weren't invited or consulted? Is this because the BSD community thinks this statement is silly? Help me out here.
ObJectBridge (GPL'd Java ODMG) needs volunteers.
But he's specifically looking for a robust .doc reader, and one that doesn't suck.
ObJectBridge (GPL'd Java ODMG) needs volunteers.
What about Star Trek, First Contact? According to this movie, the Borg were in our solar system way back in the 21st Century when Humans first discovered warp technology. That would predate the new series, and possibly give the writers a loophole through which to introduce the Borg.
OK, I'll grant you that this would be (1) lame, (2) lame and (3) very lame of Paramount, but it's not impossible.
ObJectBridge (GPL'd Java ODMG) needs volunteers.
Nah, he's just old. Although it would be glamorous to get him back in the Tardis as a ninth doctor.
ObJectBridge (GPL'd Java ODMG) needs volunteers.
I'm also concerned that someone might have gotten their hands on the professor's analyzer, and then written a script to alter individual papers in order that the analyzer wouldn't pick it up. (I know this is unlikely, but the point is, without more evidence, I don't know how unlikely this is.)
Please understand, I worked my ass off for my (sometimes admittedly miserable) grades and I'd love to see cheaters strung up by their feet and used as pinatas. I'd just like to make absolutely positively sure that they cheated before it happens.
ObJectBridge (GPL'd Java ODMG) needs volunteers.
Frankly, I'm skeptical that performing this kind of lexical analysis on source code could be helpful, especially if the class places strong emphasis on good coding style. Maybe a better method is to try what we had at Purdue so many years back...compare the runtimes and memory footprints of each submitted program, and if you get a match between two programs, start the investigation.
ObJectBridge (GPL'd Java ODMG) needs volunteers.
Here's how something like this might work:
Timmy (yes, little Timmy) tries to look at a web page on sexual reproduction, from a science web site. The web site is blocked. Timmy emails AOL and tells them that www.encyclopedia.com/sex-education/ is unfairly blocked. AOL sends this to RuleSpace. RuleSpace looks at the site, figures out that it's not porn, wonders how the hell the AI flubbed that up, unblocks the site.
Alternatively, Billy (Timmy's pal) tries to go to www.moreporn.com and finds it blocked. Billy complaines to AOL, who sends the complaint to RuleSpace. RuleSpace laughs their asses off.
You can vote something as censorable similarly. Joe Camel sees www.hotbabeslickingeachother.com even though the filters are on. Pleased to see the website (but dismayed that it got past parental controls), Joe Camel complains to AOL, who complains to RuleSpace. RuleSpace wonders how the hell this site got past the AI and adds it to the list of blocked sites.
Alternatively, Aunt Gwen who still lives in the 1890s could look at a site that depicts a couple kissing in public and complain to AOL that it's pornographic. AOL sends this on to RuleSpace. RuleSpace laughs their asses off.
ObJectBridge (GPL'd Java ODMG) needs volunteers.
offtopic?!? This is relevant to parent (which makes it ontopic).
ObJectBridge (GPL'd Java ODMG) needs volunteers.
ObJectBridge (GPL'd Java ODMG) needs volunteers.
To Bill Gates and Steve Balmer.
Stop this bullshit.
Now.
You've just managed to get the stock price back over $70 a share for the first time since Jackson nailed your corporate balls to the wall. You just managed to put out a pretty damn good operating system in the form of Windows 2000. And you're just getting started with .NET, which, yeah, is a Java ripoff, but it's at least a fairly solid idea.
And now, from all appearances, you're ready to shoot yourselves in the foot.
Windows XP? The operating system that'll break every time you install a bit of hardware? This is reminiscent of Commodore when they cut out a piece of their motherboard rather than let users install a part themselves.
FUD campaign against Linux and Open Source? Who are you kidding? Nobody's paying attention to your opinions on the matter anymore, and for good reason. Everyone knows you have a bias; everyone who's paying attention has seen the Halloween Documents; and too many big names (like IBM and Oracle) have embraced Linux, which is pretty much the OSS standard bearer.
This is going to smell like desperation on your parts, and this is going to drive your share price down.
Don't cost me money. Come to your senses. Soon.
ObJectBridge (GPL'd Java ODMG) needs volunteers.
You get no argument from me there. The idea of freedom, real freedom, is anathema to big governments dominated by greed and lust for power.
Kent State, Tienanmen, Prague Spring, Chicago 1968, Seattle, all signs of a totalitarian mindset spurred into violent action by sheer panic. No problem. Just don't fool yourself into thinking that the tolerance threshholds aren't different between the US and China. Here, I can call the government a bunch of jackboots and (usually) not get shot.
ObJectBridge (GPL'd Java ODMG) needs volunteers.
Gee, where would I ever get the ridiculous idea that the Chinese government would shoot their own people for excercising their right to speak freely?
Don't take us Americans for dumber than we look. Some of us don't suck the dicks of our corporations as much as the PRC would hope.
ObJectBridge (GPL'd Java ODMG) needs volunteers.
That's not a bad way of summing things up, although I might suggest that it is possible for someone to consider one who lacks the capability for even rudimentary cognative activity (e.g., the brain dead) to be essentially soulless. But that depends on how one defines the soul ("fundamental algorithm?")
ObJectBridge (GPL'd Java ODMG) needs volunteers.
The year is 2015, and Internet legend CmdrTaco has received a fully grown half-height clone, whom he has named Tacillo.
CmdrTaco OK clone, now mow the lawn!
Tacillo Mow the damn lawn yourself, Taco boy.
CmdrTaco (incredulous) Why you little prick! I made you to mow my goddamn lawn! Now mow the goddamn lawn!!
Tacillo Fuck you, I'm not mowing your goddamn lawn. And by the way, if I'm a little prick, it's only because you're a big prick!
CmdrTaco (Pissed) YOU...YOU...
Tacillo Never thought your genetic material would turn on you, eh Taco boy? (Gives CmdrTaco the finger) Now piss off before I punch you in your now-redundant nuts.
CmrdTaco [Censored by the FCC. Have a nice day!]
Tacillo You said it yourself Taco Bell, you made me. I'm going to surf for porn. Deal with it.
ObJectBridge (GPL'd Java ODMG) needs volunteers.
Yeah, unfortunately. Many of these chess programs are written to run on specialized hardware (for example: Deep Blue ran on a custom made machine optimized to traverse trees very quickly). Putting them all on one platform to run the genetic algorithm would necessarily bias the selection algorithm in favor of the program whose native hardware was closest to the host platform.
There's also the matter of fundamental algorithm incompatibilities: neural nets are not alpha-beta trees are not apples are not oranges. I'm not sure combining neural nets with alpha-beta trees would work in this context (although a neural net might make an interesting heuristic function).
ObJectBridge (GPL'd Java ODMG) needs volunteers.
I agree whole-heartedly :)
I think a better idea would be to take the suggestion that others have made on this thread, and use a liquid-metal reactor that just keeps burning the waste until it's down to practically nothing. It's more energy efficient and cleaner to boot.
Still, as long as people are afraid of a possible china syndrome or chernobyl, this isn't likely to be a very popular solution.
ObJectBridge (GPL'd Java ODMG) needs volunteers.