Would they respect the research funds or look for some way to extend the funding for as long as possible to keep their jobs secure for as long as possible? Just playing devil's advocate... Even scientists can have selfish goals. Find me an altruistic manager for the program and I'll be glad to donate.
Respectfully, LEO IS profitable and any ship that can carry cargo can also carry passengers. At this point the goal should be exploiting resources beyond LEO. We are already using LEO very well. I love my GPS:) I know we need a consistently reproducible launch system in order to exploit resources beyond LEO. That is the key. I just don't see any current government or corporation expending the resources to develop that and I wish there was a private entity that had the resources to do so. 500 million dollars means nothing for that endeavor. I think we as a species are very shortsighted most of the time and those of us who try to think big and further into the future are a minority. You also obviously see the bigger picture but how can we promote that?
You're not far off. Helium is a limited natural resource that we will run out of in the not too far future. I agree about private enterprise but as I said in previous post I don't see that as being allowed by any major government. Private enterprise is best able to start and promote exploitation of resources outside of LEO if they are allowed the opportunity and they see it as a long term profit. Maybe Buffet and the Gates' will see it as a goal...
But I see the future as being beyond LEO. There's a lot of crap up there already. Hell, almost anyone can launch to LEO if they have some money either by developing their own launch capability or using someone elses. Commercialization of local space is not space development. It's becoming sprawl. The GP was talking about pushing towards the "future". To me, that is not LEO.
What US Space Command? They're going to ask Russia or China to send up a nuke to take out a privately held vessel or station? Even if they could do that (space is BIG) they wouldn't. Hell, I could cut a deal with China or Russia in second if I'm saying I'll fuck up the US and side with them. Or...I say instead of throwing shit at the US I'll throw it at you...doesn't China have a REALLY big dam that they'd be really unhappy about a catastrophic failure due to meteor? Russia has the same kind of weak points.
Repeating myself from a prior post on the subject...
Our elected representatives have "pork" projects that are funded from our space program. The federal funds get raped for any kind of "space" project that might be included in some local interest. Does your closest major city have a "science center". Try the Maryland Science Center at Baltimore, the Carnegie Science Center, the Arizona Science Center, or the Detroit Science Center. All of the elected government officials get a slice of the budget that supposedly promotes the space program. If our space program's budget wasn't siphoned off for bullshit projects we might be able to accomplish something substantial. That, and the fact that the whole system is management top heavy is what kills success.
Hey, I'm just making a point. I agree mostly. The good SHOULD be emphasized over the bad as long as the good outweighs the bad, but from a historical standpoint the whole story needs to be included. You can say "He saved the world!" all you want but just don't forget to say "He did it by being a dick." too.
The way the history books read...the same IS said of the oil "robber" barons. The focus is on their charitable aspects, not the poor saps who slaved away and often lost their lives. Follow the footnotes and you MIGHT get a glimmer of the truth, the main text neglects to explain how the money was really made.
I respectfully disagree. At anytime you could have the entirety of your work taken away for "state security" reasons. The US government will NEVER allow a completely private entity to control space to a greater degree than the government. I'll mention it again...Robert Heinlein's "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" is the example that government will follow. If you control space to any degree you can throw "rocks" at the planet. The rocks can be anything where some mass will survive reentry and be able to be aimed at a target. The US government has contingency plans for "aliens from outer space". Why would they allow a domestic threat of the same magnitude?
500 million isn't enough to develop a long term, repeatable, economical vehicle for launches. 500 million gets you one vehicle that MAY launch successfully...once.
That is exactly what I mean. Who is going to really remember Microsoft and their business practices 50 years from now if the Gates' money finds a cure for malaria, AIDS, or even better...Alzheimers, diabetes, or the flu? History books usually don't tell the whole story, or at least the ones that do don't make it into the public school systems.
The bottom line is...what good is being done? It really doesn't matter where the money came from. It's been accumulated and now is being distributed. What's really, really important is HOW it's being distributed. Send a bunch of food to people in a desert? Not a great idea but it saves some lives for a while. Send some equipment and educated folks to help them dig wells and irrigate so they can grow their own food? Better. Best? I'm not sure...do you pick the poor bastards up and move them to someplace better, educate them, and then give them the tools they might need to become self-sustaining? I really don't know. We have certainly seen examples where charity has made things worse. In my most cynical, darkest thoughts I have to wonder if money spent on birth control might not be best in a lot of circumstances. Damn, I hate feeling so negative sometimes...especially as I defended charity earlier in the thread!
No one with that kind of money EVER loses influence by disposing of SOME of it. When you have that kind of money you can get rid of 90% of it and still be extremely wealthy. It's self generating after a certain point...as long as you don't spend like Michael Jackson. If anything he will gain more influence. That kind of philanthropy opens all kinds of doors...want an example? Check for opinions on Bill Clinton and Bush Sr. after the fundraising they've done for the big Tsunami and Katrina. They didn't even have to personally donate huge amounts and they both look better than they ever did when they were in office. Buffet and the Gates' will probably go down in history as the biggest philanthropists of the 2000's. Hell, depending on what the Gates' do in the next 20 years, Microsoft might only be a footnote in the history books compared to their philanthropy...same for Buffet.
Okay, so you're the man/woman. I ordered it. And I remember it as mid '70's because that's when my parents went to see it in Philly when I was in about 5th grade. And, screw the movie...the music is where it's at...
Right before the speed of sound the whole wing swivels 60 degrees? How many times can it do that before failure? Great concept but considering the amount of fraud and waste going on in government projects I sure as hell wouldn't want to fly in one.
Slashdot is perfect example of IMPORTANT stuff that gets discussed online. I have a lot of respect for most of the Slashdot community. We discuss politics, science, technology, and life in general with some very thoughtful and insightful comments.
Of course, Slashdot is a minority example of what's on the web but hey, porn is important too.
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Would they respect the research funds or look for some way to extend the funding for as long as possible to keep their jobs secure for as long as possible? Just playing devil's advocate... Even scientists can have selfish goals. Find me an altruistic manager for the program and I'll be glad to donate.
And...I'll bet everyone on congress owns shares of those companies regardless of which road is followed.
And the corruption in the US government is a better idea?
Your comments are on target...maybe. Do you have any suggestions as to how to fix things?
Respectfully, LEO IS profitable and any ship that can carry cargo can also carry passengers. At this point the goal should be exploiting resources beyond LEO. We are already using LEO very well. I love my GPS :) I know we need a consistently reproducible launch system in order to exploit resources beyond LEO. That is the key. I just don't see any current government or corporation expending the resources to develop that and I wish there was a private entity that had the resources to do so. 500 million dollars means nothing for that endeavor. I think we as a species are very shortsighted most of the time and those of us who try to think big and further into the future are a minority. You also obviously see the bigger picture but how can we promote that?
You're not far off. Helium is a limited natural resource that we will run out of in the not too far future. I agree about private enterprise but as I said in previous post I don't see that as being allowed by any major government. Private enterprise is best able to start and promote exploitation of resources outside of LEO if they are allowed the opportunity and they see it as a long term profit. Maybe Buffet and the Gates' will see it as a goal...
But I see the future as being beyond LEO. There's a lot of crap up there already. Hell, almost anyone can launch to LEO if they have some money either by developing their own launch capability or using someone elses. Commercialization of local space is not space development. It's becoming sprawl. The GP was talking about pushing towards the "future". To me, that is not LEO.
For successful, long term exploitation you might be right. IF, the funds are dedicated without pork projects killing the budget.
Yup, those 15 inch tires fit great on 17 inch rims...
What US Space Command? They're going to ask Russia or China to send up a nuke to take out a privately held vessel or station? Even if they could do that (space is BIG) they wouldn't. Hell, I could cut a deal with China or Russia in second if I'm saying I'll fuck up the US and side with them. Or...I say instead of throwing shit at the US I'll throw it at you...doesn't China have a REALLY big dam that they'd be really unhappy about a catastrophic failure due to meteor? Russia has the same kind of weak points.
Repeating myself from a prior post on the subject... Our elected representatives have "pork" projects that are funded from our space program. The federal funds get raped for any kind of "space" project that might be included in some local interest. Does your closest major city have a "science center". Try the Maryland Science Center at Baltimore, the Carnegie Science Center, the Arizona Science Center, or the Detroit Science Center. All of the elected government officials get a slice of the budget that supposedly promotes the space program. If our space program's budget wasn't siphoned off for bullshit projects we might be able to accomplish something substantial. That, and the fact that the whole system is management top heavy is what kills success.
Hey, I'm just making a point. I agree mostly. The good SHOULD be emphasized over the bad as long as the good outweighs the bad, but from a historical standpoint the whole story needs to be included. You can say "He saved the world!" all you want but just don't forget to say "He did it by being a dick." too.
The way the history books read...the same IS said of the oil "robber" barons. The focus is on their charitable aspects, not the poor saps who slaved away and often lost their lives. Follow the footnotes and you MIGHT get a glimmer of the truth, the main text neglects to explain how the money was really made.
I respectfully disagree. At anytime you could have the entirety of your work taken away for "state security" reasons. The US government will NEVER allow a completely private entity to control space to a greater degree than the government. I'll mention it again...Robert Heinlein's "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" is the example that government will follow. If you control space to any degree you can throw "rocks" at the planet. The rocks can be anything where some mass will survive reentry and be able to be aimed at a target. The US government has contingency plans for "aliens from outer space". Why would they allow a domestic threat of the same magnitude?
Good for them...and they have how many contracts for launching satellites or research projects?
500 million isn't enough to develop a long term, repeatable, economical vehicle for launches. 500 million gets you one vehicle that MAY launch successfully...once.
If you mean what you say in your sig...you'll never subscribe. Typo's are a defining trait of Slashdut.
That is exactly what I mean. Who is going to really remember Microsoft and their business practices 50 years from now if the Gates' money finds a cure for malaria, AIDS, or even better...Alzheimers, diabetes, or the flu? History books usually don't tell the whole story, or at least the ones that do don't make it into the public school systems.
The bottom line is...what good is being done? It really doesn't matter where the money came from. It's been accumulated and now is being distributed. What's really, really important is HOW it's being distributed. Send a bunch of food to people in a desert? Not a great idea but it saves some lives for a while. Send some equipment and educated folks to help them dig wells and irrigate so they can grow their own food? Better. Best? I'm not sure...do you pick the poor bastards up and move them to someplace better, educate them, and then give them the tools they might need to become self-sustaining? I really don't know. We have certainly seen examples where charity has made things worse. In my most cynical, darkest thoughts I have to wonder if money spent on birth control might not be best in a lot of circumstances. Damn, I hate feeling so negative sometimes...especially as I defended charity earlier in the thread!
No one with that kind of money EVER loses influence by disposing of SOME of it. When you have that kind of money you can get rid of 90% of it and still be extremely wealthy. It's self generating after a certain point...as long as you don't spend like Michael Jackson. If anything he will gain more influence. That kind of philanthropy opens all kinds of doors...want an example? Check for opinions on Bill Clinton and Bush Sr. after the fundraising they've done for the big Tsunami and Katrina. They didn't even have to personally donate huge amounts and they both look better than they ever did when they were in office. Buffet and the Gates' will probably go down in history as the biggest philanthropists of the 2000's. Hell, depending on what the Gates' do in the next 20 years, Microsoft might only be a footnote in the history books compared to their philanthropy...same for Buffet.
Okay, so you're the man/woman. I ordered it. And I remember it as mid '70's because that's when my parents went to see it in Philly when I was in about 5th grade. And, screw the movie...the music is where it's at...
Yeah, but where is the original "Hair" soundtrack from the mid 70's? Or, an original "Fiddler on the Roof"?
I've got Hair on LP but I don't own a turntable anymore...Damn, I'm getting old...but at least I don't have any 8-tracks.
Right before the speed of sound the whole wing swivels 60 degrees? How many times can it do that before failure? Great concept but considering the amount of fraud and waste going on in government projects I sure as hell wouldn't want to fly in one.
Ahhhh!!! We are Borg...
Slashdot is perfect example of IMPORTANT stuff that gets discussed online. I have a lot of respect for most of the Slashdot community. We discuss politics, science, technology, and life in general with some very thoughtful and insightful comments.
Of course, Slashdot is a minority example of what's on the web but hey, porn is important too.