I've heard music just as interactive but better-sounding... Kondo would not be limiting himself by producing higher-quality music than he does. The melodies don't need to be much different, but the sound quality really doesn't seem contemporary with the rest of game.
Of course I am well aware of all that. If it *were* Ninja Gaiden 2, the Ninja Gaiden whore that I am, I'd be making the argument that PS3 *does* have a system seller, hahah. Sadly I'm still waiting for Itagaki to get cranking on that. I suppose in the meantime I can play the DS game, but I'm not sure how great that will be. I like my DS, but I hate the touch screen with a passion. An analog joystick makes me far happier...
I think that Zelda games are indeed "formulaic," but it's a decent formula that really suffers not so much from repetition as from the fact that everything besides the gameplay gets so little attention. The stories in Zelda are extremely basic and weak, and do little more than tie one dungeon/temple to the next. That's not a big problem, but when you have that AND no voices AND old-school-midi-quality music in a title that was released just recently, it starts to feel like, well, *there can be more to it.*
Even improving two of those three things would do wonders for Zelda and it's feeling of being an "aging" series. An epic, cd-quality orchestral score for once? That shouldn't bee too much to ask, after all games like Battlefield and Medal of Honor get that privilege, not to even mention the blockbusters like Final Fantasy and Halo.
Zelda's core gameplay -- making one's way through cleverly designed dungeons -- is STILL its greatest strength! And far from what makes a Zelda game feel like it's "lacking" in something. The reason it feels a bit outdated is that in many OTHER respects it truly IS. While no-one has been able to match Zelda's level design, when it comes to other aspects of gameplay -- combat, NPC interaction, even boss design and horseback riding controls -- Nintendo's greatest really has been outdone. Ninja Gaiden, DMC3, God of War -- these games have put others to shame in terms of combat. Oblivion's NPCs (and even those in games like the new Godfather) are far superior in AI and interactivity to those in Twilight Princess. Boss design -- look to Shadow of the Colossus for a lesson in "epic battles."
The summary calls for an overhaul of the core gameplay. That I believe is a MISTAKE. It's all the other stuff, which is admittedly *minor* in comparison to the gameplay that sets Zelda apart from everything else, that needs to catch up by about 9 years.
Someone's gonna be getting a lot of money either way, more than they need. I'm not sure that's really something to be concerned about. However, I am worried about developing countries that don't have the capital to endulge in the "luxury" that developed nations have of researching alternate fuels, renewable energy, etc. I'm just thinking, although our current level of emissions is bad for NUMEROUS reasons, what if it were indeed not that critical of a factor in current climate change. In other words, while it may have contributed even significantly, what if reduction is not going to give us the benefits that we would hope for even down the road (even optimistically a few decades from now as far as I know). Then would our priorities be different? Would we be spending some money elsewhere?
I'm just envisioning a scenario where the "skeptics" end up being right, developed countries end up being burdened with using very expensive forms of energy, and despite money pouring into renewable energy research and public awareness for years and years, we are hit with either a) nothing critical because the more conservative estimates were correct, or b) something critical such as dramatically higher coastlines ANYWAY, because the problem is just out of our hands. Better safe than sorry? Maybe for some people; anything done on a global scale is going to be costly, and at someone's expense.
YES INDEEDY! The next presidential election will hinge heavily on the pro-student, anti-student issue. Like you I am very anti-student and hope they all go to Mexico or Canadia soon.
Twilight Princess is "Another franchise entry." Mario Galaxy, Smash Bros Brawl, Metroid Prime: Corruption, etc. -- the games that make the Nintendo Wii's holiday season (hopefully) worth waiting for through the current drought are all "franchise entries." Mind you they are also technically "exclusives."
Cross-platform franchise entries such as NBA 2K8, that's a different story. Those I agree aren't worth getting excited about, at least not over a particular console.
Also, I'd call Ninja Gaiden Sigma a "PS3 exclusive." It's not Ninja Gaiden or Ninja Gaiden Black, really, and it's also not being released for the 360 (sadly, as I am a NG whore).
Anyway, don't think I'm disagreeing with your general sentiments; I'm not. The PS3 is really lacking in titles that make the console worth purchasing. That list does little to change that.
I'm not sure it's fair to call him a "bad kind of conservative," so much as someone who simply doesn't think we have it in our power to *delay* or *prevent* global warming to any appreciable degree. Depending on whose theory is correct (and for none is the evidence overwhelming, actually) it may be the realistic outlook. Otherwise it's simply pessimistic. But it's not evil or anything.
To be honest, reducing carbon emissions by a significant margin (meaning, 50% or something) globally would end up costing about as much as mitigating the effects of rising ocean levels (which will occur to *some* degree (and, I believe everyone in the scientific community agrees it will be dramatic enough) regardless of emission reduction). So, we BETTER be "rich enough" because there's a lot of money that needs to be spent doing one or the other, and in reality both.
Oh my goodness not even close. You're putting words in my mouth; I said he presents an opposing viewpoint, which he CLEARLY DOES, and yes the article (which I read thoroughly) even duly calls him a "skeptic." You quote the article calling him that, and in the next sentence claim that whoever makes me think he's opposing the consensus is pushing an agenda.
Dude you messed up all over the place. You don't even know what I actually think, you're just making a bunch of assumptions and it's silly.
So that MIT professor and other researchers who actually present opposing viewpoints *based on scientific data* also argue for Intelligent Design? I don't believe you.
Having looked at the Firehose for some time now, I find it amusing that same-old, same-old (read: non-newsworthy) articles like this appear on the main page so quickly, whereas all articles that present a dissenting conclusion never get here in the first place. I doubt the "votes" have much of anything to do with that.
Slashdot editors please give both sides a fair chance here; this isn't science vs. religion; it's [supposedly] science vs. science and people should be promoting that.
You're probably right; I can't say I'm confident in that study's results in the least. However, a study *of this sort* should probably be conducted and considered in order to judge what sort of environmental impact particular automobiles ARE truly having. Automotive plants themselves generate a good deal of pollution, use loads of energy, etc. I wonder how that depends on the cars being produced, etc.
50% gasoline engine-powered, 50% flintstones foot-powered? No thanks!
Really, though, Toyota is talking about margins here. In other words, profit. Well, hybrids cost quite a bit more than their "conventional" counterparts. So much more, in fact, that you need to own one for much longer than is typical in order to *break even* through fuel savings.
And, according to this report by CNW, hybrids aren't nearly as helpful when it comes to energy savings as one might like to think. Indeed, my Xterra is more energy-friendly than most hybrids based on that report....
Yeah. I don't think they care, as long as they're using biodiesel, ethanol, etc. They get paid to lobby for the technology that *uses* those fuels. Efficiency or manufacturing costs are barely a concern at the moment, at least on the political level.
I'm all for fuel-efficient, fast cars. I've just seen greed get in the way of progress too many times and so I can't help being cynical. But I never have a problem being wrong in that regard:-) I always hope I am, actually
Ok that makes sense and now I understand 100% where you're coming from. As for myself, I tend to listen to a lot of VG music (heck, music of ALL backgrounds and genres) standalone, so if it's good in that sense it makes me happy enough. As for how it is incorporated into the game, that is often a whole different story. Take Halo 2, for instance. The music in-game is sparse and barely fits half the time. As a standalone score, it is far better.
That seems to be true of a lot of games, and Chrono Cross is probably one of those.
On the other hand, there are often games which "sell" the music in a way that I can even listen to it standalone and be reminded of the game, where otherwise I wouldn't be able to stand it. That is true of... well, off the top of my head, most N64 music. (With the notable exception of Jet Force Gemini, which was scored by a genius IMO. Tawfret is an amazing piece, and easily the best "swamp music" I've ever listened to in a game.)
I agree that film, VG, anime music is all meant to complement the visual medium. So when it does it poorly, it becomes a poor score. However, as a *soundtrack* per se, if it's still listenable, I at least like it in that regard.
There's also the opposite, music that is great when it's in a film but terrible standalone. Brotherhood of the Wolf's soundtrack is definitely an example of that, at least for me personally.
Haha I'd be happiest with both. A properly-powered SUV like an Xterra could benefit from better mileage. But better mileage on a Z06? Psh that's like asking for a hockey player to have better teeth:-P
You do have a point, though. Personally, and because I'm in a cynical mood at the moment, I think that those folks who get paid big bucks to do R&D on, or lobby for, alternative fuels, might try to bury this so they can avoid any budget cuts. Hopefully not, though. From what I've read, at the moment hybrids cost so much energy to produce that I wouldn't be too proud to own one:-( but that's slowly getting better. Soon they'll be about as costly in terms of energy over their lifespan as small SUVs, and hopefully eventually better than that. Gotta start somewhere, I guess.
I like a lot of Mitsuda's melodies, although I have been somewhat dissatisfied with him recently. After Xenosaga Ep.1 his work definitely didn't evolve. Not in the slightest. Omega from that soundtrack was probably the most ambitious piece he's ever written.
Chrono Cross... I actually like much of it. But then again I don't see it as "melodrama," perhaps because I didn't play the game and just pick a choice set of pieces from the 3-disc score? Hard to say, but pieces like Scars of Time make me happy. It has one of my favorite musical intros (the 02403x x34030 guitar bit). Perhaps the music you hate in the soundtrack is music I kinda just glossed over and didn't go back to...
Horner's apex was probably the Apollo 13 end credits. Sheer majesty. After that he kinda became same-old. (And his score for Troy was a disaster and one of the film's biggest weaknesses. (I don't count Pitt as Achilles a weakness per se because he produced the movie...)). I mean, Mighty Joe Young has the same "signature Horner" chord progression as Deep Impact, as Titanic, as Apollo 13! Then again it's a progression that I personally really like, so I still listen to his stuff. I can't defend its lack of variety or inspiration, though.
Hmm I think our tastes are vastly different:-) I enjoy Mitsuda and Sakimoto. Uematsu is actually one I don't enjoy as much... Danny Elfman is great, but I wouldn't put him in my personal list of favorites... there I'd have Williams, Horner, Jerry Goldsmith, and maybe Hans Zimmer (although Zimmer and Badelt I think are actually clones and I can't say they are great composers so much as they have good taste for what to heavily borrow from and I enjoy the 3 melodic progressions they reuse in all their scores hahah).
I find your analyses wholly valid, although when you talk of dungeon music as "background noise," I personally think of Jeremy Soule, haha. I like his work but his dungeon music is barely music, and definitely closer to "background noise" than even the least musical piece in FFXII. But all in all I think it comes down to a matter of personal taste, what chord progressions strike one's fancy, etc. in this case. Rather than, say, difference in sophistication or something.
Oh, you didn't like it? That's a shame... I really enjoy it myself, but I like that particular style of music. It is indeed reminiscent of (not nearly as good as, of course) John Williams, but then again I like Williams.
But yeah, I watched some clips of the game on IGN, and it was definitely the same music (Giza Plains theme, etc.).
Thanks for mentioning Steve Vai, that man is amazing. Though my all-time fav is probably still Malmsteen.
I can see Guitar Hero's appeal in some ways, but I just can't play a music game of that sort without wanting to turn it off and go jam on an actual guitar or play around on a keyboard. But that's just me. Just like if there were a similar dancing game (DDR isn't really, not that I like it...) I'd want to just go out and dance for real instead.
Now, luckily that doesn't carry over when it comes to fighting games. Or FPSs for that matter, hahah. Those I'm just fine with in their "virtual" incarnations ^_^
I assume this game is in the process of being localized for North America... definitely one I'm looking forward to. The music is the same as in the PS2 game:)
I wonder if US publishers have ever thought to publish a title in Japan in time for Golden Week (much like they time holiday season releases in the US)...
You're joking, right? Journey and Def Leppard sound familiar? How about Van Halen:-) The 80s had some AWESOME rock, at least if you like rock. And I'd think that folks who buy Guitar Hero should at least like the *good* 80s rock...
I can't say I agree with Guitar Hero's selections, but then again I hate Guitar Hero anyway. I'd much rather rock out on my Ibanez than that thing that comes with the game. It seriously reminds me of a toddler toy:-/
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I've heard music just as interactive but better-sounding... Kondo would not be limiting himself by producing higher-quality music than he does. The melodies don't need to be much different, but the sound quality really doesn't seem contemporary with the rest of game.
Of course I am well aware of all that. If it *were* Ninja Gaiden 2, the Ninja Gaiden whore that I am, I'd be making the argument that PS3 *does* have a system seller, hahah. Sadly I'm still waiting for Itagaki to get cranking on that. I suppose in the meantime I can play the DS game, but I'm not sure how great that will be. I like my DS, but I hate the touch screen with a passion. An analog joystick makes me far happier...
I think that Zelda games are indeed "formulaic," but it's a decent formula that really suffers not so much from repetition as from the fact that everything besides the gameplay gets so little attention. The stories in Zelda are extremely basic and weak, and do little more than tie one dungeon/temple to the next. That's not a big problem, but when you have that AND no voices AND old-school-midi-quality music in a title that was released just recently, it starts to feel like, well, *there can be more to it.*
Even improving two of those three things would do wonders for Zelda and it's feeling of being an "aging" series. An epic, cd-quality orchestral score for once? That shouldn't bee too much to ask, after all games like Battlefield and Medal of Honor get that privilege, not to even mention the blockbusters like Final Fantasy and Halo.
Zelda's core gameplay -- making one's way through cleverly designed dungeons -- is STILL its greatest strength! And far from what makes a Zelda game feel like it's "lacking" in something. The reason it feels a bit outdated is that in many OTHER respects it truly IS. While no-one has been able to match Zelda's level design, when it comes to other aspects of gameplay -- combat, NPC interaction, even boss design and horseback riding controls -- Nintendo's greatest really has been outdone. Ninja Gaiden, DMC3, God of War -- these games have put others to shame in terms of combat. Oblivion's NPCs (and even those in games like the new Godfather) are far superior in AI and interactivity to those in Twilight Princess. Boss design -- look to Shadow of the Colossus for a lesson in "epic battles."
The summary calls for an overhaul of the core gameplay. That I believe is a MISTAKE. It's all the other stuff, which is admittedly *minor* in comparison to the gameplay that sets Zelda apart from everything else, that needs to catch up by about 9 years.
Someone's gonna be getting a lot of money either way, more than they need. I'm not sure that's really something to be concerned about. However, I am worried about developing countries that don't have the capital to endulge in the "luxury" that developed nations have of researching alternate fuels, renewable energy, etc. I'm just thinking, although our current level of emissions is bad for NUMEROUS reasons, what if it were indeed not that critical of a factor in current climate change. In other words, while it may have contributed even significantly, what if reduction is not going to give us the benefits that we would hope for even down the road (even optimistically a few decades from now as far as I know). Then would our priorities be different? Would we be spending some money elsewhere?
I'm just envisioning a scenario where the "skeptics" end up being right, developed countries end up being burdened with using very expensive forms of energy, and despite money pouring into renewable energy research and public awareness for years and years, we are hit with either a) nothing critical because the more conservative estimates were correct, or b) something critical such as dramatically higher coastlines ANYWAY, because the problem is just out of our hands. Better safe than sorry? Maybe for some people; anything done on a global scale is going to be costly, and at someone's expense.
YES INDEEDY! The next presidential election will hinge heavily on the pro-student, anti-student issue. Like you I am very anti-student and hope they all go to Mexico or Canadia soon.
Twilight Princess is "Another franchise entry." Mario Galaxy, Smash Bros Brawl, Metroid Prime: Corruption, etc. -- the games that make the Nintendo Wii's holiday season (hopefully) worth waiting for through the current drought are all "franchise entries." Mind you they are also technically "exclusives."
Cross-platform franchise entries such as NBA 2K8, that's a different story. Those I agree aren't worth getting excited about, at least not over a particular console.
Also, I'd call Ninja Gaiden Sigma a "PS3 exclusive." It's not Ninja Gaiden or Ninja Gaiden Black, really, and it's also not being released for the 360 (sadly, as I am a NG whore).
Anyway, don't think I'm disagreeing with your general sentiments; I'm not. The PS3 is really lacking in titles that make the console worth purchasing. That list does little to change that.
I'm not sure it's fair to call him a "bad kind of conservative," so much as someone who simply doesn't think we have it in our power to *delay* or *prevent* global warming to any appreciable degree. Depending on whose theory is correct (and for none is the evidence overwhelming, actually) it may be the realistic outlook. Otherwise it's simply pessimistic. But it's not evil or anything.
To be honest, reducing carbon emissions by a significant margin (meaning, 50% or something) globally would end up costing about as much as mitigating the effects of rising ocean levels (which will occur to *some* degree (and, I believe everyone in the scientific community agrees it will be dramatic enough) regardless of emission reduction). So, we BETTER be "rich enough" because there's a lot of money that needs to be spent doing one or the other, and in reality both.
Oh my goodness not even close. You're putting words in my mouth; I said he presents an opposing viewpoint, which he CLEARLY DOES, and yes the article (which I read thoroughly) even duly calls him a "skeptic." You quote the article calling him that, and in the next sentence claim that whoever makes me think he's opposing the consensus is pushing an agenda.
Dude you messed up all over the place. You don't even know what I actually think, you're just making a bunch of assumptions and it's silly.
So that MIT professor and other researchers who actually present opposing viewpoints *based on scientific data* also argue for Intelligent Design? I don't believe you.
But if it IS environmentally friendly, then killing babies for it is fine.
What kind of heartless bastard would you have to be in order to bring a baby into this horrible, warming world to begin with?
WHAT THE HECK?!?!?
Having looked at the Firehose for some time now, I find it amusing that same-old, same-old (read: non-newsworthy) articles like this appear on the main page so quickly, whereas all articles that present a dissenting conclusion never get here in the first place. I doubt the "votes" have much of anything to do with that.
Slashdot editors please give both sides a fair chance here; this isn't science vs. religion; it's [supposedly] science vs. science and people should be promoting that.
You're probably right; I can't say I'm confident in that study's results in the least. However, a study *of this sort* should probably be conducted and considered in order to judge what sort of environmental impact particular automobiles ARE truly having. Automotive plants themselves generate a good deal of pollution, use loads of energy, etc. I wonder how that depends on the cars being produced, etc.
50% gasoline engine-powered, 50% flintstones foot-powered? No thanks!
Really, though, Toyota is talking about margins here. In other words, profit. Well, hybrids cost quite a bit more than their "conventional" counterparts. So much more, in fact, that you need to own one for much longer than is typical in order to *break even* through fuel savings.
And, according to this report by CNW, hybrids aren't nearly as helpful when it comes to energy savings as one might like to think. Indeed, my Xterra is more energy-friendly than most hybrids based on that report....
Maybe by 2020 things will change. Or maybe not.
Psh! *I* can make Halo. I can probably make Halo with an added-in gatling gun that fires ninja bees.
Miyamoto is talking small potatoes here with his "I can make Halo" boast. Miyamoto can probably make Ocarina of Time if he tries hard enough.
Nah bro TEAM NINJA (Ninja Gaiden, DOA) is the TVR of the gaming world. Blizzard is so popular, it's more like Toyota.
Yeah. I don't think they care, as long as they're using biodiesel, ethanol, etc. They get paid to lobby for the technology that *uses* those fuels. Efficiency or manufacturing costs are barely a concern at the moment, at least on the political level.
:-) I always hope I am, actually
I'm all for fuel-efficient, fast cars. I've just seen greed get in the way of progress too many times and so I can't help being cynical. But I never have a problem being wrong in that regard
Ok that makes sense and now I understand 100% where you're coming from. As for myself, I tend to listen to a lot of VG music (heck, music of ALL backgrounds and genres) standalone, so if it's good in that sense it makes me happy enough. As for how it is incorporated into the game, that is often a whole different story. Take Halo 2, for instance. The music in-game is sparse and barely fits half the time. As a standalone score, it is far better.
That seems to be true of a lot of games, and Chrono Cross is probably one of those.
On the other hand, there are often games which "sell" the music in a way that I can even listen to it standalone and be reminded of the game, where otherwise I wouldn't be able to stand it. That is true of... well, off the top of my head, most N64 music. (With the notable exception of Jet Force Gemini, which was scored by a genius IMO. Tawfret is an amazing piece, and easily the best "swamp music" I've ever listened to in a game.)
I agree that film, VG, anime music is all meant to complement the visual medium. So when it does it poorly, it becomes a poor score. However, as a *soundtrack* per se, if it's still listenable, I at least like it in that regard.
There's also the opposite, music that is great when it's in a film but terrible standalone. Brotherhood of the Wolf's soundtrack is definitely an example of that, at least for me personally.
Haha I'd be happiest with both. A properly-powered SUV like an Xterra could benefit from better mileage. But better mileage on a Z06? Psh that's like asking for a hockey player to have better teeth :-P
:-( but that's slowly getting better. Soon they'll be about as costly in terms of energy over their lifespan as small SUVs, and hopefully eventually better than that. Gotta start somewhere, I guess.
You do have a point, though. Personally, and because I'm in a cynical mood at the moment, I think that those folks who get paid big bucks to do R&D on, or lobby for, alternative fuels, might try to bury this so they can avoid any budget cuts. Hopefully not, though. From what I've read, at the moment hybrids cost so much energy to produce that I wouldn't be too proud to own one
I like a lot of Mitsuda's melodies, although I have been somewhat dissatisfied with him recently. After Xenosaga Ep.1 his work definitely didn't evolve. Not in the slightest. Omega from that soundtrack was probably the most ambitious piece he's ever written.
Chrono Cross... I actually like much of it. But then again I don't see it as "melodrama," perhaps because I didn't play the game and just pick a choice set of pieces from the 3-disc score? Hard to say, but pieces like Scars of Time make me happy. It has one of my favorite musical intros (the 02403x x34030 guitar bit). Perhaps the music you hate in the soundtrack is music I kinda just glossed over and didn't go back to...
Horner's apex was probably the Apollo 13 end credits. Sheer majesty. After that he kinda became same-old. (And his score for Troy was a disaster and one of the film's biggest weaknesses. (I don't count Pitt as Achilles a weakness per se because he produced the movie...)). I mean, Mighty Joe Young has the same "signature Horner" chord progression as Deep Impact, as Titanic, as Apollo 13! Then again it's a progression that I personally really like, so I still listen to his stuff. I can't defend its lack of variety or inspiration, though.
Hmm I think our tastes are vastly different :-) I enjoy Mitsuda and Sakimoto. Uematsu is actually one I don't enjoy as much... Danny Elfman is great, but I wouldn't put him in my personal list of favorites... there I'd have Williams, Horner, Jerry Goldsmith, and maybe Hans Zimmer (although Zimmer and Badelt I think are actually clones and I can't say they are great composers so much as they have good taste for what to heavily borrow from and I enjoy the 3 melodic progressions they reuse in all their scores hahah).
I find your analyses wholly valid, although when you talk of dungeon music as "background noise," I personally think of Jeremy Soule, haha. I like his work but his dungeon music is barely music, and definitely closer to "background noise" than even the least musical piece in FFXII. But all in all I think it comes down to a matter of personal taste, what chord progressions strike one's fancy, etc. in this case. Rather than, say, difference in sophistication or something.
Oh, you didn't like it? That's a shame... I really enjoy it myself, but I like that particular style of music. It is indeed reminiscent of (not nearly as good as, of course) John Williams, but then again I like Williams.
But yeah, I watched some clips of the game on IGN, and it was definitely the same music (Giza Plains theme, etc.).
Heh I like all those bands :-P
Thanks for mentioning Steve Vai, that man is amazing. Though my all-time fav is probably still Malmsteen.
I can see Guitar Hero's appeal in some ways, but I just can't play a music game of that sort without wanting to turn it off and go jam on an actual guitar or play around on a keyboard. But that's just me. Just like if there were a similar dancing game (DDR isn't really, not that I like it...) I'd want to just go out and dance for real instead.
Now, luckily that doesn't carry over when it comes to fighting games. Or FPSs for that matter, hahah. Those I'm just fine with in their "virtual" incarnations ^_^
I assume this game is in the process of being localized for North America... definitely one I'm looking forward to. The music is the same as in the PS2 game :)
I wonder if US publishers have ever thought to publish a title in Japan in time for Golden Week (much like they time holiday season releases in the US)...
Thanks for reminding me why I never read the PA wannabe that is Ctrl-Alt-Del.
You're joking, right? Journey and Def Leppard sound familiar? How about Van Halen :-) The 80s had some AWESOME rock, at least if you like rock. And I'd think that folks who buy Guitar Hero should at least like the *good* 80s rock...
:-/
I can't say I agree with Guitar Hero's selections, but then again I hate Guitar Hero anyway. I'd much rather rock out on my Ibanez than that thing that comes with the game. It seriously reminds me of a toddler toy