Agreed, although this is one reason why Firefox will likely still have a life -- it's unaffiliated with a company that makes money through advertising.
Uh, it is? You mean the Mozilla Foundation dumped their business relationship with Google? That's big news, you should submit it to Slashdot.
If you are so keen to see a native look and feel, head over to www.storytracker.net in the next week or so for the first beta release. You're welcome to judge as you wish. If you don't have the patience (which your tone suggests) I suggest you check out Vuze or Eclipse or LimeWire.
LimeWire has a terrible UI. If you think LimeWire looks like a native Windows application, you obviously have no clue what a native Windows application looks like.
My point went right over your head. The open file dialogue looks a tad bit different. Unusable? Not at all.
Really? Here's a small selection of the features you get "for free" if you use Microsoft's Open dialog: 1) Speech-recognition support 2) Tablet support 3) Map network drive 4) Open a URL instead of a file 5) Rename files 6) Copy/paste files 7) Copy/paste file paths 8) Drag&drop support
And that's just off the top of my head. How many of those does the Java fake-dialog do? If any?
Dude... just uninstall java if it bothers you. it's an optional package, you know?
I already did. I just like debating random people on the Internet.
The point is... java has reached a state of maturity where java desktop application is a reality.
Yes, I've been hearing that for a decade. It wasn't true a decade ago, and it's not true now.
I know its fashionable to hate java, but you are really out of touch with the current state of the language.
At least I know what a native UI even looks like. If you think Limewire's one, you obviously don't.
3)Like with the page-file there is debate on the setting, because if its too big its wasted HDD space, if its too small you cant hibernate and if its far too small when you run out of RAM bad stuff happens. What you need varies very much by usage case, e.g if you have enough ram and don't hibernate you wont need more than 128, if you mount/tmp as a ram device and use it excessively then you will need quite a bit, actually using more than 1G of either swap or page-file will bring your system to a halt anyway (but it's too bad if you don't mind taking a few minutes to task switch between high-ram applications on a low ram system)
Yah, but why can't it just automatically resize the file as needed? Like every other OS does? That's exactly my point.
You kind of side-stepped the actual question in an extremely verbose way.
So while you can just stick with defaults, your in a better position to decide what you need than some developer at canonical because you'll know what you need it for and how much you value HDD space.
But... the OS knows how much HD it has available, how much memory it needs, and whether I'm hibernating. Why do I need to tell the OS things it already knows?
I think its using a partition instead of a file is a unix thing, (does OSX use a swap file or a partition?), there has been talk of switching to a swap-file but it's not really worth the effort (and complicates a fair few scenarios), when new users can stick to the defaults.
I would wager it would simplify more scenarios than it would complicate.
Nobody will argue with me when i say that there are tangible benefits to switching to linux and linux based apps for 80% of what a user does on a computer
However, I still think that the problem you're describing is Firefox's fault -- obviously the build for Ubuntu isn't using the recommended place to set its DPI, and is using something non-standard.
But there's *two* places the same information is stored. You can't blame Firefox for thinking both would have identical information in them (or not even knowing about the second location). I still say it's more Ubuntu's fault.
California state income tax is ~10%, California sales tax is 9%, Federal income tax is 36%, SSI 6%, Medicare 2%, plus all the little add on stuff to the phone bill, electricity, vehicle license fee.
Hey, don't class my beautiful Washington State with your shitty California.
Everybody ignore that "left coast" comment; 2/3rds of the states on the "left coast" are actually sane. Sane being defined, basically, as "not California."
Please tell me that you're not making a judgement call about whether or not a terminal is needed based upon "the first Google result." There's a lot better sources of information than that, I'm sure.:\
Really? Because whenever anybody on this site brings up the lack of support in Linux, the response is always "Google is my support! It's all you need!" If Ubuntu had, for example, put the keyword "DPI" into the Help system, I wouldn't have gone to Google at all. But apparently, it's too hard to write a help file for every feature of your OS.
(To be fair, the 4th or 5th Google result did lead to the GUI DPI control.)
Why not? There are two different ways of setting the DPI: 1) In the Ubuntu Fonts control panel (for some reason; it should be in Display but I digress) 2) Using the config file
One of these works with Firefox (and presumably all other apps). One doesn't. Why? Possibly this is Firefox's fault and not Ubuntu's, but why the *heck* does Ubuntu have two ways of doing the same thing, one of which works better than the other? That, almost by default, make it Ubuntu's problem.
You obviously do not develop java applications for the desktop. You are probably even clueless when you are running a java app. That's how seamless java desktop apps are becoming when written with the desktop in mind.
We've been hearing that for a full decade now... put your money where your mouth is, and show me the app.
It's possible (possible!) that you can create a native-looking and native-feeling and native-performing application in Java. I fully acknowledge that. However, I've never seen one. I don't know anybody who's ever seen one.
There are small places that might look different such as open file window on Windows, but that's the exception.
If you think having the wrong open file dialog is a "small" problem, then you should not be designing UIs. That's a huge problem.
Desktop java has come a long way from back in the old days.
Yes, but Java's had almost 15 years now to get its act together, even if it's all working now, that doesn't excuse 14 years of shitty Java GUI apps.
I know enough to know that the last computer virus I got was due to having Java installed. Fuck it; there's nothing worthwhile on the web using Java, and there's nothing worthwhile on the desktop using Java. (Oh, and Limewire? That's an anti-feature-- that program has a UI so bad, Lotus Notes developers make fun of it.)
I have a stupid (maybe) question: Why doesn't Ubuntu just automatically take care of swap on its own, like every other OS? Is that a Linux thing, or just a Ubuntu-specific thing? Is there some reason for it?
But you still have to do the equivalent, "editing text-based configuration files." I tried Ubuntu 9.04 on my laptop. To set the DPI, the first Google result said to edit some config file*. When Ubuntu was making extremely loud beeping noises, the only solution was to edit some config file.
Same difference; you're only right on a technicality.
* It turns out there's a GUI for setting the DPI, but it doesn't work in Firefox. The only way to get Firefox to recognize the DPI change is to edit the config file.
I have three, Verizon, Comcast and Clearwire. (And various smaller ISPs that just re-sell Comcast and/or Verizon.)
Verizon forces you to have a telephone line for Internet (no dry-loop in this area), Comcast charges about the same for just Internet as for Internet + TV (I don't want TV at all)... that leaves only one actual ISP: Clearwire. But they're wifi-only, and while their speed is impressive, the latency is too high for gaming.
So. I have Verizon, and just pay for a fucking telephone I never use.
It needs GPS to know what the speed limit IS on the particular stretch of road you're on. The point of this isn't that it's just a plain governor, which as you said is really old and perfected technology, but it can govern your speed to the speed limit of the road, not simply to some maximum regardless of which road you're on.
Word already has the tendency of turning a basic document into a code of spaghetti when saved as HTML.
But it looks right in a browser, so why the fuck does it matter what the code is like?
The only reason I can even think of why this matters is in case you'd want to make changes to the HTML *after* Word saved it... but then I can't think of a good reason you'd want to do that anyway.
The new Office 2007 format fits that criteria, any source control package that can deal with XML can deal with DOCX just as easily. The change in file formats wasn't completely arbitrary, you know-- the new format is actually better in a lot of ways.
But, Office 2007 is also designed for normal human beings. The real normal human beings don't use source control* is because source control is way too hard to use.
If you want them to use your source control software for their Word/Whatever files, make it easy-to-use! This isn't rocket science. Otherwise, they'll use the source control/revision system built into Word/OpenOffice, which is (relatively) easy-to-use.
Of course you're probably also the type of person who simply redefine "works well" to exclude Word files, no matter what the output of Word is. So I don't know why I'm even bothering.
* Some normal human beings use something fairly close to source control: Shadowcopy in Vista, or Time Machine in OS X. But it's not designed to be source control, and thus it doesn't do merges and will throw away old documents occasionally.
Because you're more likely to take note of rare cars than you are to take note of the most common models? I live in hippie paradise, and Smarts are still a rare sight-- maybe see at most one a day out of the thousands of cars I see daily.
Minis are more popular, but they're also not purchased for the fuel consumption, but for the same kind of 'retro-vibe' the new Bug has. At least, from my experience.
2) You're talking about a nation where the entire infrastructure is based around the personal auto, and the most popular selling model for the last decade (and maybe longer) has been the Ford F-150 pickup truck. We ain't Europe*.
3) You're also talking about a nation where something as simple as switching TVs to digital signals instead of analog has not only taken tons of unnecessarily public money, but has been constantly delayed over and over and over and over and over again.
4) If Obama doesn't win a second term, and considering point 3, this'll be dropped like a hot potato.
In short, I think this is too aggressive to be realistic. I'd love somebody to explain to me how Chrysler (if they still exist in 2016) is expected to make a 42 MPG Caravan. That seems like a fantasy, and it's not like a family car is some kind of strange alien vehicle that normal people don't drive.
* That's not to say we're better than, or worse than, Europe. I'll let the Euro-snobs on this site tell me how much the US sucks, as they do in every topic. Just saying that European solutions won't necessarily work here, just because they work there.
I've yet to have a laptop with Linux on it that could Sleep properly. That alone is enough to kill the battery life a dozen times quicker than Windows on the same hardware. (Unless you shut it down every single time you're going to close the lid! Hah!)
I think the problem with planning everything too much is that you can't hold all the details in your mind at once,
For a mere price of $1100 I can sell you this new invention I've come up with. It's called a "legal pad." Combined with a high-tech "ballpoint pen" it allows you to keep track of thousands of details-- without holding them all in your head!
As popular as the game is, and knowing it can run on a *nix variant, Blizzard still won't produce a native Linux client. So why do you suppose that is?
2 reasons I can knee-jerk right away:
1) WINE's already doing it for them, so why should they bother?
2) Even if the code was easily-portable (it probably isn't), and even if Blizzard had the in-house expertise to create Linux installers/configurations (they probably don't), they'd still have to spend, at the very less, 33% more time testing, more time supporting the product for much, much less than 33% additional customers.
I can only assume he's talking about software keyloggers, and the whole control-alt-delete to log-in thing which prevents them from sucking in your password. In which case, it may be a fair point.
But of course, that argument doesn't take hardware keyloggers into consideration at all. And I could be completely wrong about what he meant.
"Did you buy a printer that's Linux-compatible first? Because crappy GDI printers don't work!"
"Yes, look, I looked on the website and it has Linux support listed right there. I paid a premium for it to get that feature, as well. I downloaded the Linux driver and installed it, following all the instructions, and it still doesn't work."
"Oh well does it have a network port? Obviously printers without a network port are crap! You bought a crappy printer, so no wonder it doesn't work in Linux!"
Slashdot Mirror
Agreed, although this is one reason why Firefox will likely still have a life -- it's unaffiliated with a company that makes money through advertising.
Uh, it is? You mean the Mozilla Foundation dumped their business relationship with Google? That's big news, you should submit it to Slashdot.
If you are so keen to see a native look and feel, head over to www.storytracker.net in the next week or so for the first beta release. You're welcome to judge as you wish. If you don't have the patience (which your tone suggests) I suggest you check out Vuze or Eclipse or LimeWire.
LimeWire has a terrible UI. If you think LimeWire looks like a native Windows application, you obviously have no clue what a native Windows application looks like.
My point went right over your head. The open file dialogue looks a tad bit different. Unusable? Not at all.
Really? Here's a small selection of the features you get "for free" if you use Microsoft's Open dialog:
1) Speech-recognition support
2) Tablet support
3) Map network drive
4) Open a URL instead of a file
5) Rename files
6) Copy/paste files
7) Copy/paste file paths
8) Drag&drop support
And that's just off the top of my head. How many of those does the Java fake-dialog do? If any?
Dude ... just uninstall java if it bothers you. it's an optional package, you know?
I already did. I just like debating random people on the Internet.
The point is ... java has reached a state of maturity where java desktop application is a reality.
Yes, I've been hearing that for a decade. It wasn't true a decade ago, and it's not true now.
I know its fashionable to hate java, but you are really out of touch with the current state of the language.
At least I know what a native UI even looks like. If you think Limewire's one, you obviously don't.
3)Like with the page-file there is debate on the setting, because if its too big its wasted HDD space, if its too small you cant hibernate and if its far too small when you run out of RAM bad stuff happens. What you need varies very much by usage case, e.g if you have enough ram and don't hibernate you wont need more than 128, if you mount /tmp as a ram device and use it excessively then you will need quite a bit, actually using more than 1G of either swap or page-file will bring your system to a halt anyway (but it's too bad if you don't mind taking a few minutes to task switch between high-ram applications on a low ram system)
Yah, but why can't it just automatically resize the file as needed? Like every other OS does? That's exactly my point.
You kind of side-stepped the actual question in an extremely verbose way.
So while you can just stick with defaults, your in a better position to decide what you need than some developer at canonical because you'll know what you need it for and how much you value HDD space.
But... the OS knows how much HD it has available, how much memory it needs, and whether I'm hibernating. Why do I need to tell the OS things it already knows?
I think its using a partition instead of a file is a unix thing, (does OSX use a swap file or a partition?), there has been talk of switching to a swap-file but it's not really worth the effort (and complicates a fair few scenarios), when new users can stick to the defaults.
I would wager it would simplify more scenarios than it would complicate.
Nobody will argue with me when i say that there are tangible benefits to switching to linux and linux based apps for 80% of what a user does on a computer
Like...?
However, I still think that the problem you're describing is Firefox's fault -- obviously the build for Ubuntu isn't using the recommended place to set its DPI, and is using something non-standard.
But there's *two* places the same information is stored. You can't blame Firefox for thinking both would have identical information in them (or not even knowing about the second location). I still say it's more Ubuntu's fault.
Here on the Left coast, we're already there...
California state income tax is ~10%, California sales tax is 9%, Federal income tax is 36%, SSI 6%, Medicare 2%, plus all the little add on stuff to the phone bill, electricity, vehicle license fee.
Hey, don't class my beautiful Washington State with your shitty California.
Everybody ignore that "left coast" comment; 2/3rds of the states on the "left coast" are actually sane. Sane being defined, basically, as "not California."
Please tell me that you're not making a judgement call about whether or not a terminal is needed based upon "the first Google result." There's a lot better sources of information than that, I'm sure. :\
Really? Because whenever anybody on this site brings up the lack of support in Linux, the response is always "Google is my support! It's all you need!" If Ubuntu had, for example, put the keyword "DPI" into the Help system, I wouldn't have gone to Google at all. But apparently, it's too hard to write a help file for every feature of your OS.
(To be fair, the 4th or 5th Google result did lead to the GUI DPI control.)
Why not? There are two different ways of setting the DPI:
1) In the Ubuntu Fonts control panel (for some reason; it should be in Display but I digress)
2) Using the config file
One of these works with Firefox (and presumably all other apps). One doesn't. Why? Possibly this is Firefox's fault and not Ubuntu's, but why the *heck* does Ubuntu have two ways of doing the same thing, one of which works better than the other? That, almost by default, make it Ubuntu's problem.
You obviously do not develop java applications for the desktop. You are probably even clueless when you are running a java app. That's how seamless java desktop apps are becoming when written with the desktop in mind.
We've been hearing that for a full decade now... put your money where your mouth is, and show me the app.
It's possible (possible!) that you can create a native-looking and native-feeling and native-performing application in Java. I fully acknowledge that. However, I've never seen one. I don't know anybody who's ever seen one.
There are small places that might look different such as open file window on Windows, but that's the exception.
If you think having the wrong open file dialog is a "small" problem, then you should not be designing UIs. That's a huge problem.
Desktop java has come a long way from back in the old days.
Yes, but Java's had almost 15 years now to get its act together, even if it's all working now, that doesn't excuse 14 years of shitty Java GUI apps.
I know enough to know that the last computer virus I got was due to having Java installed. Fuck it; there's nothing worthwhile on the web using Java, and there's nothing worthwhile on the desktop using Java. (Oh, and Limewire? That's an anti-feature-- that program has a UI so bad, Lotus Notes developers make fun of it.)
I have a stupid (maybe) question: Why doesn't Ubuntu just automatically take care of swap on its own, like every other OS? Is that a Linux thing, or just a Ubuntu-specific thing? Is there some reason for it?
But you still have to do the equivalent, "editing text-based configuration files." I tried Ubuntu 9.04 on my laptop. To set the DPI, the first Google result said to edit some config file*. When Ubuntu was making extremely loud beeping noises, the only solution was to edit some config file.
Same difference; you're only right on a technicality.
* It turns out there's a GUI for setting the DPI, but it doesn't work in Firefox. The only way to get Firefox to recognize the DPI change is to edit the config file.
I have three, Verizon, Comcast and Clearwire. (And various smaller ISPs that just re-sell Comcast and/or Verizon.)
Verizon forces you to have a telephone line for Internet (no dry-loop in this area), Comcast charges about the same for just Internet as for Internet + TV (I don't want TV at all)... that leaves only one actual ISP: Clearwire. But they're wifi-only, and while their speed is impressive, the latency is too high for gaming.
So. I have Verizon, and just pay for a fucking telephone I never use.
It needs GPS to know what the speed limit IS on the particular stretch of road you're on. The point of this isn't that it's just a plain governor, which as you said is really old and perfected technology, but it can govern your speed to the speed limit of the road, not simply to some maximum regardless of which road you're on.
Really?
Yes. If it can deal with XML, it can deal with DOCX.
Including merging?
Yes. If it can deal with XML, it can deal with DOCX.
If I take a DOCX, put it in subversion, two people modify different parts of it, and then commit, svn is able to merge their changes?
Yes. If it can deal with XML, it can deal with DOCX.
A repetitive response to a repetitive post.
Maybe I'm stupid, but can't you use the Word equation editor to make your equation, then simply copy-and-paste it into Powerpoint? If not, why not?
Word already has the tendency of turning a basic document into a code of spaghetti when saved as HTML.
But it looks right in a browser, so why the fuck does it matter what the code is like?
The only reason I can even think of why this matters is in case you'd want to make changes to the HTML *after* Word saved it... but then I can't think of a good reason you'd want to do that anyway.
The new Office 2007 format fits that criteria, any source control package that can deal with XML can deal with DOCX just as easily. The change in file formats wasn't completely arbitrary, you know-- the new format is actually better in a lot of ways.
But, Office 2007 is also designed for normal human beings. The real normal human beings don't use source control* is because source control is way too hard to use.
If you want them to use your source control software for their Word/Whatever files, make it easy-to-use! This isn't rocket science. Otherwise, they'll use the source control/revision system built into Word/OpenOffice, which is (relatively) easy-to-use.
Of course you're probably also the type of person who simply redefine "works well" to exclude Word files, no matter what the output of Word is. So I don't know why I'm even bothering.
* Some normal human beings use something fairly close to source control: Shadowcopy in Vista, or Time Machine in OS X. But it's not designed to be source control, and thus it doesn't do merges and will throw away old documents occasionally.
TeX won't be replaced by Word because TeX's whole purpose is to provide a way to separate content and layout.
Except you *can* (and should, for documents longer than 1-2 pages) do that in Word. You can't blame the tool for the mistakes of its users.
Anyway, there's no real way to separate content and layout because layout *is* often content. For example, embedded images or sidebar text.
Because you're more likely to take note of rare cars than you are to take note of the most common models? I live in hippie paradise, and Smarts are still a rare sight-- maybe see at most one a day out of the thousands of cars I see daily.
Minis are more popular, but they're also not purchased for the fuel consumption, but for the same kind of 'retro-vibe' the new Bug has. At least, from my experience.
Ok, there's a few problems here:
1) All the cars you listed suck ass.
2) You're talking about a nation where the entire infrastructure is based around the personal auto, and the most popular selling model for the last decade (and maybe longer) has been the Ford F-150 pickup truck. We ain't Europe*.
3) You're also talking about a nation where something as simple as switching TVs to digital signals instead of analog has not only taken tons of unnecessarily public money, but has been constantly delayed over and over and over and over and over again.
4) If Obama doesn't win a second term, and considering point 3, this'll be dropped like a hot potato.
In short, I think this is too aggressive to be realistic. I'd love somebody to explain to me how Chrysler (if they still exist in 2016) is expected to make a 42 MPG Caravan. That seems like a fantasy, and it's not like a family car is some kind of strange alien vehicle that normal people don't drive.
* That's not to say we're better than, or worse than, Europe. I'll let the Euro-snobs on this site tell me how much the US sucks, as they do in every topic. Just saying that European solutions won't necessarily work here, just because they work there.
I've yet to have a laptop with Linux on it that could Sleep properly. That alone is enough to kill the battery life a dozen times quicker than Windows on the same hardware. (Unless you shut it down every single time you're going to close the lid! Hah!)
I think the problem with planning everything too much is that you can't hold all the details in your mind at once,
For a mere price of $1100 I can sell you this new invention I've come up with. It's called a "legal pad." Combined with a high-tech "ballpoint pen" it allows you to keep track of thousands of details-- without holding them all in your head!
They're going fast, call today.
As popular as the game is, and knowing it can run on a *nix variant, Blizzard still won't produce a native Linux client. So why do you suppose that is?
2 reasons I can knee-jerk right away:
1) WINE's already doing it for them, so why should they bother?
2) Even if the code was easily-portable (it probably isn't), and even if Blizzard had the in-house expertise to create Linux installers/configurations (they probably don't), they'd still have to spend, at the very less, 33% more time testing, more time supporting the product for much, much less than 33% additional customers.
I can only assume he's talking about software keyloggers, and the whole control-alt-delete to log-in thing which prevents them from sucking in your password. In which case, it may be a fair point.
But of course, that argument doesn't take hardware keyloggers into consideration at all. And I could be completely wrong about what he meant.
I imagine the following conversation:
"I can't get this printer to work in Linux."
"Did you buy a printer that's Linux-compatible first? Because crappy GDI printers don't work!"
"Yes, look, I looked on the website and it has Linux support listed right there. I paid a premium for it to get that feature, as well. I downloaded the Linux driver and installed it, following all the instructions, and it still doesn't work."
"Oh well does it have a network port? Obviously printers without a network port are crap! You bought a crappy printer, so no wonder it doesn't work in Linux!"
You must be a really popular guy.