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Well, LEDs are pretty shock proof, I'd use one of them, preferably a light designed for them, over the traditional cage light today.

But yeah. Consider:
Rough Service: 75W, 680 lumens, 130V, 2k hours. $.78
Normal Service: 52W, 750 lumens, 120V, 1k hours, $1 each.

50% more electricity usage for double the life, and a little less light even. At 10 cents per kWh, over the course of it's (estimated) life, the rough service bulb will use an extra $4.60 in electricity. Which kind of makes the fact that the rough service bulb is, in this case, $0.22 cheaper rather moot.

Except for the fact that the rough service bulb will actually last in the stated use, of course. If you need a vibration rated bulb, you need a vibration rated bulb. Other acceptable answers is that it uses more than $5 worth of labor to replace the darn thing. Had a bulb like that in one of my parent's homes - located high up on the landing between the basement and ground floor, IE just as high as it would have been ON the ground floor. Took a ladder to replace. If they had been available that bulb would have gotten a CFL/LED put in there just for the longer replacement times.

Well, LEDs are pretty shock proof, I'd use one of them, preferably a light designed for them, over the traditional cage light today.

But yeah. Consider:
Rough Service: 75W, 680 lumens, 130V, 2k hours. $.78
Normal Service: 52W, 750 lumens, 120V, 1k hours, $1 each.

50% more electricity usage for double the life, and a little less light even. At 10 cents per kWh, over the course of it's (estimated) life, the rough service bulb will use an extra $4.60 in electricity. Which kind of makes the fact that the rough service bulb is, in this case, $0.22 cheaper rather moot.

Except for the fact that the rough service bulb will actually last in the stated use, of course. If you need a vibration rated bulb, you need a vibration rated bulb. Other acceptable answers is that it uses more than $5 worth of labor to replace the darn thing. Had a bulb like that in one of my parent's homes - located high up on the landing between the basement and ground floor, IE just as high as it would have been ON the ground floor. Took a ladder to replace. If they had been available that bulb would have gotten a CFL/LED put in there just for the longer replacement times.

I learned this the hard way when I used to work on cars. You know those lights that people hang when the hood is up? I got the light and screwed a regular bulb into it. Burned a couple out. Then somebody told me I needed a heavy duty bulb. No more problems.

Great site! This one looks awesome for mood lighting: http://www.1000bulbs.com/product/7624/IN-L4080.html?tid=pacc

I've been looking for sub-40-watt bulbs with a standard base forever, rather than having to mess with a dimmer.

> I did buy an LED just to try it, but the brightest I've found is barely the 60 watt equivalent.

Have you tried this site? You can filter LCD lumens from 25 to 14,000.
http://www.1000bulbs.com/category/led-lighting/?tid=nav

I'm trying the "3M LED Advanced Light Bulb, Cool White, 60-Watt Equivalent, 800-Lumen" and ironically find it to be *too* bright ...
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BQ7NQLG/

> I think LED's will be the long term solution.
After trying my LEDs I'm not sure. I'm finding the EMF put out my incandescents is softer on the eyes then LEDs. :-/

> The light color isn't quite right - not enough red, so it looks a bit too yellow.

Hmm, I'm using this 3M LED 60-W and they are *bright* white, no off-colors at all.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BQ7NQLG/

I'm usually for cranking LED brightness up (I love halogens) but even I want these LCDs toned down. Those dimmable Cree LED look not bad. The single bulb price of $8 is definitely affordable. Pity you said they have uneven spectral frequencies. :-(

> still want a couple of bulbs I can dim to firelight orange-red

Yeah, I haven't found a good LCD for that either. This is the color I want .. but the price is too high.
http://www.1000bulbs.com/product/54666/IN-L4099.html?tid=car
or
http://www.1000bulbs.com/product/1934/IN-F19204.html?tid=car

My dream "wish list" for LEDs is:

* Can change color temperature from white to warm orange/red
* Dimmable
* Less then $10/bulb

Still looking ...

> The light color isn't quite right - not enough red, so it looks a bit too yellow.

Hmm, I'm using this 3M LED 60-W and they are *bright* white, no off-colors at all.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BQ7NQLG/

I'm usually for cranking LED brightness up (I love halogens) but even I want these LCDs toned down. Those dimmable Cree LED look not bad. The single bulb price of $8 is definitely affordable. Pity you said they have uneven spectral frequencies. :-(

> still want a couple of bulbs I can dim to firelight orange-red

Yeah, I haven't found a good LCD for that either. This is the color I want .. but the price is too high.
http://www.1000bulbs.com/product/54666/IN-L4099.html?tid=car
or
http://www.1000bulbs.com/product/1934/IN-F19204.html?tid=car

My dream "wish list" for LEDs is:

* Can change color temperature from white to warm orange/red
* Dimmable
* Less then $10/bulb

Still looking ...

I use these:

http://1000bulbs.com/product/58963/LED-409946.html?utm_source=SmartFeedGoogleBase&utm_medium=Shopping&utm_term=LED-409946&utm_content=LED+Light+Bulbs+-+60+Watt+Equal&utm_campaign=SmartFeedGoogleBaseShopping&gclid=CND43cb5wbQCFelDMgodCyIABA

About 1/5 the power of an incandescent and about 1/2 the power of a CFL for the same light. Also, supposed to last 15 years.

Neat.

The worst case exposure scenario to mercury from a broken CFL is about the same as the mercury exposure from eating one can of tuna fish:

"Most important in this comparison is the bar showing the dose from eating a single (6-ounce) meal of Albacore tuna (48 micrograms of mercury), which is roughly equal to the very worst CFL breakage case measured by the MDEP. " - http://1000bulbs.com/pages/mercury.html

Sylvania & Philips 100 Watt incandescents are typically 1500-1700 lumens (at 1000 life-hours).
The longer-life (5000 life-hours) versions are the ones that are around 1000 lumens.
See: http://www.1000bulbs.com/category/100-watt-standard-shape-light-bulbs/

Incandescent bulbs can't meet the standard? I guess that's news to these guys.

• http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-6162567-7.html
• http://www.verilux.com/full-spectrum-lightbulbs/incandescent-bulbs
• http://www.1000bulbs.com/category/energy-efficient-light-bulbs/

http://www.1000bulbs.com/category/40-watt-cfl-compact-fluorescents/

Now STFU. Why people think they won't be able to get a CFL the use 40W is beyond me.

... except that you can get CFLs in absolutely any color temperature you want. So yes, your statement is crap.

I have noticed this problem with all the floodlight style bulbs that I have tried, but rarely with the bare spiral bulbs. I think it might have something to do with the fact that the enclosed flood lights dissipate heat less effectively than regular ones.

http://1000bulbs.com/ has a huge selection of CFLs in varying power ratings and color temperatures. A couple years ago I replaced all my incandescents with some 13W 5000K bulbs I bought on that site. They come on instantly(ok maybe .5 sec delay) at full brightness. I got 5000K color temp. since it is supposed to be closest to sunlight, though some people may prefer a warmer look. The ones I got are called Longstar IIRC, I'm not sure if the exact same ones are still available.

A 40-watt CFL is about like a 150-watt incandescent. Here's a link to a really bright "compact" fluorescent. It's over a foot long.

don't buy crappy cheap ones. better invest a couple of euros more and get a good full spectrum cfl. then you'll have the best daylight colour (you might have to get used to, but then you'll see that everything just looks better without the yellowish cast of incandescent bulbs) without any buzz.

you'll probably get the best ones in photography shops sold for studio lights.

i've got a couple of these but in the european 230V version. they are great.

• CFLs do contain mercury, but it is only a problem if the bulbs are broken or disposed of improperly. The amount of mercury in an average CFL is about 1/100 the amount contained in one of those old mercury thermometers. Also, the largest man-made source of mercury pollution is coal-fired power plants, which CFL usage will reduce. In addition, newer CFLs are being released that contain much less mercury than current ones (source [pdf]).
• It is true that some CFLs don't live up to their rated life. All Energy Star compliant bulbs are required to include at least a two-year manufacturer warranty (source).
• CFLs are available in all sorts of variants, including candle (regular and candelabra base), globe, reflector, three-way, etc.
• CFLs are available in a wide range of color temperatures, from 2700K ("warm" incandescent) to 5100K ("daylight"). Many CFLs are indistinguishable from their incandescent equivalents (that is, until you touch them and don't get burned).
• Dimmable CFLs, which work on standard dimmer switches, exist. While they do not have exactly the same dimming behaviors as incandescents, I've found them to be more than adequate.
• While most CFLs do not tolerate colder temperatures, there are many that do, all the way down below 0 degrees F
• While older CFLs didn't come on instantly, newer ones, with electric ballasts, do. They do not start at full brightness, but are plenty bright to see when entering a room, and reach full brightness quickly, often in under a minute.
• CFLs with electric ballasts don't "hum" like the old ones did.

• CFLs do contain mercury, but it is only a problem if the bulbs are broken or disposed of improperly. The amount of mercury in an average CFL is about 1/100 the amount contained in one of those old mercury thermometers. Also, the largest man-made source of mercury pollution is coal-fired power plants, which CFL usage will reduce. In addition, newer CFLs are being released that contain much less mercury than current ones (source [pdf]).
• It is true that some CFLs don't live up to their rated life. All Energy Star compliant bulbs are required to include at least a two-year manufacturer warranty (source).
• CFLs are available in all sorts of variants, including candle (regular and candelabra base), globe, reflector, three-way, etc.
• CFLs are available in a wide range of color temperatures, from 2700K ("warm" incandescent) to 5100K ("daylight"). Many CFLs are indistinguishable from their incandescent equivalents (that is, until you touch them and don't get burned).
• Dimmable CFLs, which work on standard dimmer switches, exist. While they do not have exactly the same dimming behaviors as incandescents, I've found them to be more than adequate.
• While most CFLs do not tolerate colder temperatures, there are many that do, all the way down below 0 degrees F
• While older CFLs didn't come on instantly, newer ones, with electric ballasts, do. They do not start at full brightness, but are plenty bright to see when entering a room, and reach full brightness quickly, often in under a minute.
• CFLs with electric ballasts don't "hum" like the old ones did.

• CFLs do contain mercury, but it is only a problem if the bulbs are broken or disposed of improperly. The amount of mercury in an average CFL is about 1/100 the amount contained in one of those old mercury thermometers. Also, the largest man-made source of mercury pollution is coal-fired power plants, which CFL usage will reduce. In addition, newer CFLs are being released that contain much less mercury than current ones (source [pdf]).
• It is true that some CFLs don't live up to their rated life. All Energy Star compliant bulbs are required to include at least a two-year manufacturer warranty (source).
• CFLs are available in all sorts of variants, including candle (regular and candelabra base), globe, reflector, three-way, etc.
• CFLs are available in a wide range of color temperatures, from 2700K ("warm" incandescent) to 5100K ("daylight"). Many CFLs are indistinguishable from their incandescent equivalents (that is, until you touch them and don't get burned).
• Dimmable CFLs, which work on standard dimmer switches, exist. While they do not have exactly the same dimming behaviors as incandescents, I've found them to be more than adequate.
• While most CFLs do not tolerate colder temperatures, there are many that do, all the way down below 0 degrees F
• While older CFLs didn't come on instantly, newer ones, with electric ballasts, do. They do not start at full brightness, but are plenty bright to see when entering a room, and reach full brightness quickly, often in under a minute.
• CFLs with electric ballasts don't "hum" like the old ones did.

• CFLs do contain mercury, but it is only a problem if the bulbs are broken or disposed of improperly. The amount of mercury in an average CFL is about 1/100 the amount contained in one of those old mercury thermometers. Also, the largest man-made source of mercury pollution is coal-fired power plants, which CFL usage will reduce. In addition, newer CFLs are being released that contain much less mercury than current ones (source [pdf]).
• It is true that some CFLs don't live up to their rated life. All Energy Star compliant bulbs are required to include at least a two-year manufacturer warranty (source).
• CFLs are available in all sorts of variants, including candle (regular and candelabra base), globe, reflector, three-way, etc.
• CFLs are available in a wide range of color temperatures, from 2700K ("warm" incandescent) to 5100K ("daylight"). Many CFLs are indistinguishable from their incandescent equivalents (that is, until you touch them and don't get burned).
• Dimmable CFLs, which work on standard dimmer switches, exist. While they do not have exactly the same dimming behaviors as incandescents, I've found them to be more than adequate.
• While most CFLs do not tolerate colder temperatures, there are many that do, all the way down below 0 degrees F
• While older CFLs didn't come on instantly, newer ones, with electric ballasts, do. They do not start at full brightness, but are plenty bright to see when entering a room, and reach full brightness quickly, often in under a minute.
• CFLs with electric ballasts don't "hum" like the old ones did.

• CFLs do contain mercury, but it is only a problem if the bulbs are broken or disposed of improperly. The amount of mercury in an average CFL is about 1/100 the amount contained in one of those old mercury thermometers. Also, the largest man-made source of mercury pollution is coal-fired power plants, which CFL usage will reduce. In addition, newer CFLs are being released that contain much less mercury than current ones (source [pdf]).
• It is true that some CFLs don't live up to their rated life. All Energy Star compliant bulbs are required to include at least a two-year manufacturer warranty (source).
• CFLs are available in all sorts of variants, including candle (regular and candelabra base), globe, reflector, three-way, etc.
• CFLs are available in a wide range of color temperatures, from 2700K ("warm" incandescent) to 5100K ("daylight"). Many CFLs are indistinguishable from their incandescent equivalents (that is, until you touch them and don't get burned).
• Dimmable CFLs, which work on standard dimmer switches, exist. While they do not have exactly the same dimming behaviors as incandescents, I've found them to be more than adequate.
• While most CFLs do not tolerate colder temperatures, there are many that do, all the way down below 0 degrees F
• While older CFLs didn't come on instantly, newer ones, with electric ballasts, do. They do not start at full brightness, but are plenty bright to see when entering a room, and reach full brightness quickly, often in under a minute.
• CFLs with electric ballasts don't "hum" like the old ones did.

There are dimmable CF bulbs available.

Virtually every CFL I have had lasted less long than an incandesent. I major plus for this new technology would be a low wattage bright bulb that fits current fixtures. I have a lot of fixtures that cant use them, as well as outdoors or inside the oven.

What kind of CFLs did you use? In the last 3 years since I started using CFLs I've had to replace one, and that was the front porch light. When I replaced it it had been in use for 2.5 years, and we also leave the front porch light on all the time so that was constant use, not off and on useage. Also have you looked at what's available lately? CFLs are much more compact now and will fit under most lamp harps. You can get CFLs for smaller sockets, for outdoor spotlights and yellow bug lights which will probably cover most of what you said you wanted them for. I'm not sure about using them in an oven, but an outdoor rated one might be fine there. I believe I saw some of the smaller sockets CFLs at Wal-mart last time I was buying lightbulbs so you don't have to buy these only online.

Virtually every CFL I have had lasted less long than an incandesent. I major plus for this new technology would be a low wattage bright bulb that fits current fixtures. I have a lot of fixtures that cant use them, as well as outdoors or inside the oven.

What kind of CFLs did you use? In the last 3 years since I started using CFLs I've had to replace one, and that was the front porch light. When I replaced it it had been in use for 2.5 years, and we also leave the front porch light on all the time so that was constant use, not off and on useage. Also have you looked at what's available lately? CFLs are much more compact now and will fit under most lamp harps. You can get CFLs for smaller sockets, for outdoor spotlights and yellow bug lights which will probably cover most of what you said you wanted them for. I'm not sure about using them in an oven, but an outdoor rated one might be fine there. I believe I saw some of the smaller sockets CFLs at Wal-mart last time I was buying lightbulbs so you don't have to buy these only online.

Virtually every CFL I have had lasted less long than an incandesent. I major plus for this new technology would be a low wattage bright bulb that fits current fixtures. I have a lot of fixtures that cant use them, as well as outdoors or inside the oven.

What kind of CFLs did you use? In the last 3 years since I started using CFLs I've had to replace one, and that was the front porch light. When I replaced it it had been in use for 2.5 years, and we also leave the front porch light on all the time so that was constant use, not off and on useage. Also have you looked at what's available lately? CFLs are much more compact now and will fit under most lamp harps. You can get CFLs for smaller sockets, for outdoor spotlights and yellow bug lights which will probably cover most of what you said you wanted them for. I'm not sure about using them in an oven, but an outdoor rated one might be fine there. I believe I saw some of the smaller sockets CFLs at Wal-mart last time I was buying lightbulbs so you don't have to buy these only online.

I find I get more light out for the candelabra base fixtures which make the fixtures useful for room lighting. Take a look at these: http://www.1000bulbs.com/products.php?cat=14-Watt- Candelabra-Base-Compact-Fluorescents-Light-Bulbs. I think the issue is the heat. The decorative fixtures often have a 15 to 40 watt rating which you can circumvent with CFLs.
--
Solar is here: http://mdsolar.blogspot.com/2007/01/slashdot-users -selling-solar.html

This one is a little pricey but it is dimmable: http://www.1000bulbs.com/product.php?product=28601
--
Be bright with solar: http://mdsolar.blogspot.com/2007/01/slashdot-users -selling-solar.html

Carbon trades at $3.75/ton on the Chicago Climate Exchange http://www.chicagoclimatex.com/. They don't do an avoided emissions credit but they are working on it. For a CFL that replaces a 60 W incadescent at 13 W and lasts for 7 years with 4 hours of use per day the avoided electric use is 0.49 MWh and so using the low conversion rate that the exchange uses for renewable electric power http://www.chicagoclimatex.com/news/publications/p df/CCX_Renewable_Offsets.pdf based on displacing gas turbines this comes to 0.18 ton of carbon, or $0.74.

You can get CFLs for 1.89 bulk retail http://www.1000bulbs.com/products.php?cat=13-Watt- Compact-Fluorescents so just the carbon savings are likely coming close to the cost of production.

At $0.09 per kWh electric cost, one also saves $44 per bulb.

So, why would legislation be needed? I think mainly to get people thinking.

LED street lights are begining to get going with a similar boost in efficiency and greater reliablility http://www.cree.com/press/press_detail.asp?i=11712 95242023.
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Switch to solar: http://mdsolar.blogspot.com/2007/01/slashdot-users -selling-solar.html

Don't bother changing the socket. These work great Put the 42 and 55 watts in the house recently. Makes a difference.

http://www.1000bulbs.com/products.php?cat=40-Watt- Compact-Fluorescents 150W equivalent

Here is a source of dimmable compact flourescent bulbs.

http://www.1000bulbs.com/products.php?cat=Dimmable -Compact-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs

Yup, found this with a thing called google, 3 way and dimmable bulbs available http://www.1000bulbs.com

1000bulbs.com has a good selection of CFLs, including dimmable ones.

Here, let's go through the first few words of his post again:

"According to convoluted logic we often see here"

See the words "according to" and "convoluted?" This should clue you in that he is

1. Attributing this belief to someone else
2. Does not find it to be appropriate

As far as #1 he's right. Any time the subject of illegal copying of software, music, or movies comes up on Slashdot, the overwhelming opinion is that it's okay.

Here's a link for some 75 watt light bulbs for yourself, sparky.

Most lightbulbs put out a very narrow spectrum band of light. Full spectrum light is light that includes many more of the different wave-lengths, approaching that of the sun at noon-day.

It is also related to the color temperature, how close the temperature (in kelvin, not farenheit! This has to do with color not temperature) is to noon-day sun. See this chart.

See also this description.

Yes you can:

http://www.1000bulbs.com/products.php?cat=Dimmable -Compact-Fluorescent-Light-Bulbs

I've replaced all of the normal lightbulbs in my house with CFL's in the last 5 years. The electric savings are very noticeable on my bill. My only complaint is that I'm not seeing 10 years lifetime ... more like 3-4.

This is the bulb I've been using, and I haven't noticed it. I'd be interested in what the light meter has to say about that bulb, however.

I've looked for several years for a CF I liked and trusted enough (not to die on me) until I found these. And the price is right, too.

http://www.1000bulbs.com/products.php?cat=40-Watt- Compact-Fluorescents
http://www.1000bulbs.com/category.php?category=408

http://www.1000bulbs.com/products.php?cat=40-Watt- Compact-Fluorescents
http://www.1000bulbs.com/category.php?category=408

I have been very pleased with these CF bulbs.

- are 3x-10x the cost of an ordinary light bulb
At less than $2 each, the ROI is VERY fast on a CF bulb. Unless you're very short sighted it doesn't make financial sense to use a normal bulb.

- are a bit dimmer than their stated wattage equivalent standard bulbs
With off-the-shelf CF bulbs I agree. With the ones linked above, using my preferred full-spectrum 5100K bulb, my experience has been just the opposite. I love the way they brighten up my home.

- take a bit of time to warm up
I haven't noticed this a bit. Instant on. They may get brighter after 30 seconds, but I've never noticed it, so if these ones do you'd need scientific instrumentation to pick it up.

- don't have quite the same color temperature as standard bulbs
With the full spectrum CF's linked above, that is a good thing! The few normal bulbs I have left put off a nasty yellow light compared to the full spectrum CF's. Gloomy and depressing. I just placed a $100 order before 1000Bulbs.com gets slashdotted so I can replace the rest of my normal, yuck-yellow bulbs.

- sometimes don't fit under (e.g.) ceiling fan light domes, especially the 100W equivalent models
OK, ok, size does matter. But they come in many different sizes and with a little planning I've had 100% success. I even rewired my kitchen chandelier to use these CF bulbs instead of those stupid tiny expensive candle ones. Couldn't be happier.

As you can see I'm sold on good full-spectrum CF bulbs. I have no affiliation with 1000Bulbs.com, they just happened to be what I was looking for and have good prices, products, and service.

I can highly recommend 1000Bulbs.com for compact flourescent bulbs.

They are cheap in price but high in quality. I initially ordered a dozen and haven't had a single problem with a single bulb. I prefer the full spectrum CF bulbs.

They have them for less than $2. It doesn't make financial sense to use anything else.

THIS PLACE has very warm, 2500K, compact flourescents on sale for $1.97. they also have other temperatures. they are quite nice, we use them and they have great color qualities.