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How Are You Conserving Energy?

ThosLives asks: "With oil again pushing historic nominal prices and all sorts of articles on alternative power, what are people doing practically to reduce their energy consumption? It's fairly clear that conservation is an overlooked solution to the 'energy crisis'. Has anyone come up with really nifty ways to cut their energy consumption without sacrificing their technical lifestyle? What methods work best for you? At what point (price of gasoline, electricity, etc) will you start to change your behavior?" "Take me, for example. I'm looking to cut much of my consumption, including moving closer to work to cut my commute, possibly putting a throttle restrictor plate in my car, buying fluorescent lights, and even trying to build a small wind/solar generator. I love technology, and I'd love to see how it can be used to reduce demands for power rather than just being able to make more power more cheaply (conservation arguably being the better side of the energy coin). I'm even interested in how folks conserve other things too - I'm always amazed at how many plastic (or paper) bags the grocer insists on giving me every week and how much waste society generates in the form of packaging."

380 comments

  1. CFLBs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Compact Fluorescent Light Bulbs. Not only do they save you energy/money, they're still pretty geeky! I've been replacing my traditional bulbs as they wear out, and these have much longer lifespans (which more than makes up for initial cost). The only thing I noticed when I first got them was a slight delay turning on, but I've gotten so used to that I no longer even notice.

    1. Re:CFLBs by EnglishTim · · Score: 1

      Why are they geeky? Are they new in the US?

    2. Re:CFLBs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      "High-tech," uncommon, a smart decision = geeky.

    3. Re:CFLBs by dJCL · · Score: 1

      They are not new up here in Canada, my brother lights his whole house that way, and has for a while. But they have just hit a price point where they are brutally cheap to install, I had a bulb go the other day, and just decided to replace all the bulbs in that track light with compacts. And the current ones don't even have a noticable delay on startup, they just are one(but not full brightness for a few seconds - I love that in the morning, helps me adjust)

      Otherwise

      I also turned off my cluster when I'm not using it - I just need to get around to writing a script to halt the cluster when distcc is done running for the night...

      My car is reasonably good at fuel consumption - about $35CDN/week for gas, and I drive 52Km to work each day.

      Anyway...

      --
      On Arrakis: early worm gets the bird. Magister mundi sum!
    4. Re:CFLBs by Muad'Dave · · Score: 3, Informative


      I beg to differ on the lifespan part - I've had 5+ CF bulbs die within a year or two. I think their _theoretical_ lifespan is long, but in practice they're cheaply made and croak early.

      --
      Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
    5. Re:CFLBs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've got one I purchsed 3 years ago (GE) and it's still going strong, and it's being used in a light where regular bulbs burned out every few months.

    6. Re:CFLBs by FroMan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      We just recently built a house and looked into energy saving ideas. Going with CF bulbs was a good idea for energy savings, but there are some drawbacks.

      First, and most obvious, is cost. To outfit our house with all CF was nearly $350. While in the long run they should save quite a bit, they still are expensive compared to incandecents.

      Another drawback is that they do not fit in all fixtures. We broke a couple bulbs by trying to get them into smaller fixtures. Also, the swirly bulbs look terrible in track lights and uncovered can lights. You can find some that have a second shaped bulb around them though that look like regular bulbs.

      There also is a bit of a delay to lighting up, but this is only a minor annoyance (~1/2 second). Also, most bulbs do not give out full light until about 1-5 minutese after they are turned on. This is fine in the bathroom in the morning since it gives your eyes a couple minutes. However when you want good light right away CF lights do not cut it.

      All that said, I do prefer the idea of savings associated with the CF lights and the problems are mostly annoyances...

      --
      Norris/Palin 2012
      Fact: We deserve leaders who can kick your ass and field dress your carcass.
    7. Re:CFLBs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think this is partly due to shoddy construction, but I believe it is also due to more frequent surges and recovery from brownouts that occur.

    8. Re:CFLBs by Tumbleweed · · Score: 1

      That may be a sign of badly made CF bulbs, but it could also be a sign of bad electricity in your home; you might want to check on that.

    9. Re:CFLBs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are not that great. First, they have a pitiful power factor, and secondly they inject a lot of noise into the mains.

    10. Re:CFLBs by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      I've been using CFLBs for over 10 years, and now most of the lights in my house have them. I've only had one or two fail in all that time.

      On the other hand, I picked up some of those "natural light" incandescents for the hallway and had three out of 6 burn out the first night. And those things cost about twice as much. I switched back to regular incandescents (same wattage) and have had no problems.

      As staed elsewhere, CFLBs have some minor drawbacks, but overall I find them a good value and am happy to use them to save energy as well.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    11. Re:CFLBs by cpeterso · · Score: 1


      Unfortunately, fluorescent light is yucky.

    12. Re:CFLBs by EnglishTim · · Score: 1

      I just ask because they're pretty common over here in the UK.

    13. Re:CFLBs by Monkelectric · · Score: 1
      I'd like to second that. Mine die after 3 - 6 months in a ceiling fan (vibration perhaps?). Ones in lamps seem to last a year. But in my area you can frequently find CF bulbs for 99c (they are subsidized by the local power company), so I guess you get what you pay for.

      On another subject, if you live in a hot climate a whole house fan can *really* save you some heating costs. Although we got burgled leaving the screen doors open to use the fan :)

      --

      Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley

    14. Re:CFLBs by HTMLSpinnr · · Score: 1

      Only because we as humans are generally used to incandescent lighting.

      --
      $ man woman *
      -bash: /usr/bin/man: Argument list too long
    15. Re:CFLBs by tchuladdiass · · Score: 1

      As for the "yucky" issue, the ones made by Lights of America seems fairly good. They have a different type of coating so that they appear more natural, not a harsh white output you get from the other ones. They also make a decent torchiere floor lamp that has 3 birghtness settings, each one seems to put out a slightly differnt color of light.

    16. Re:CFLBs by GoRK · · Score: 1

      Many of the better quality/newer CF bulbs do not have the same "warm up" problems as older or cheaper bulbs. In particular the newer sylvania bulbs have the delay but start up at about 85-90% lumen output. Philips Gen IV bulbs do very well both for the delay and the warmup. They are as good as it gets, but they are also expensive.

      The main problem with CF is that a good ballast (a good electroniclly controlled ballast can prevent both the startup delay and the warmup) is expensive. There are CF makers who sell a "bulb" that has the ballast seperated from the tube. While a complete fixture from them is about six bucks, replacement tubes are only a dollar or two.

    17. Re:CFLBs by N3Bruce · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It is actually worth replacing the incadescents before they wear out. Assuming that for ease of calculation, a 100 watt incadescent bulb lasts 1000 hours, and electricity is $0.10/KWH. Over the life of the bulb, the incadescent bulb will use 100 KWH of electricity. At the going rate of 10 cents/kwh, which is actually on the low end of the scale in the northeast, the bulb will burn $10.00 worth of electricity during its life. A CFLB with the light output of a 100 watt bulb burns 25 watts, and can be purchased in multi-packs at Home Depot for about $3.00 each, or even less. I have brought 60 watt equivalents for 6 for $10.00.

      If you junk an incadescent 100 watt bulb that is worth a buck when it is new halfway through its lifetime, you will forgo $0.50 worth of bulb life. In the 500 hours it would have burned, it would have used $5 worth of electricity, for a net cost of $4.50.

      Replacing it with a $3 CFLB will use $1.25 worth of electricity during that 500 hours, assuming an equivalent CFLB uses 25 watts. Even if the CFLB lasts only 500 hours, you are no worse off than waiting for the incadescent bulb to burn out. Chances are, your CFLB will last several times as long as a regular bulb, so the cost of the bulbs themselves per hour of use is down into the same range as incadescents, and the cost of electricity is 75 percent less.

      In warm weather, replacing incadescents with CFLBs provides an added bonus: CFLBs use not only use 75 percent less energy than incadescents, they also give off 75 percent less heat. This will reduce your air conditioning load, saving even more money!

      The only time it might not make sense is if you are heating your home with straight electricity, in which case it does not really matter if you burn the lights, as resistance heating is resistance heating.

    18. Re:CFLBs by Mr.Ned · · Score: 1

      Did you buy the cheapest bulb? I bought some name-brand ones five years ago (only thing that was on the shelf) and they're still running fine and used daily.

    19. Re:CFLBs by humblecoder · · Score: 1

      You are right about ceiling fans. I find that bulbs of all types burn out quite fast in ceiling fans. The only bulbs that last in them are bulbs marked "heavy duty" or "rough service", since they are made to handle the vibrations of a ceiling fan.

      They cost more than regular bulbs but you save from not having to replace them every few weeks.

    20. Re:CFLBs by Rude+Turnip · · Score: 1

      It's because our eyes are evolved to be most responsive to the yellow light of the sun, which incandescent bulbs emulate a little better.

    21. Re:CFLBs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Buy well-known name-brand bulbs. I bought an off-brand (IIRC, it had a large picture of an American flag on the package) 5-bulb package at Sam's club once, and they all burned out within three months (all five). I replaced the last bad bulb with a GE, which has lasted for three years at least.

    22. Re:CFLBs by pla · · Score: 1

      First, and most obvious, is cost. To outfit our house with all CF was nearly $350.

      You might want to comparison-shop just a bit...

      I have changed over every bulb in my house. It cost me well under $100.

      Try Walmart and Home Depot. I don't particularly care for WallyWorld, but when I last looked, they had a 5-pack of... 17W(?) CF bulbs for $9. Still almost 5x the price of regular incandescents, but cheap enough that anyone worried about the paying for the cost of their own electricity use should have no trouble coming up with the cash.

      Home Depot had a similar deal (I actually got most of mine there) for a little bit more money (I think $14.99 for a five pack).

      So, that comes to maybe $30-$45 for the whole house, right? You'll pay that again in replacing three or four bulbs that very specifically take a normal-sized-and-shape incandescent. I had three such bulbs, two that fit into recessed sockets, and one table-lamp with the shade mounted on the bulb (I said just replace the lamp, but nooooooo, the SO likes the tacky piece of crap <G>). For the two recessed ones I found some perfect very-small 7W CFs that fit (they fit within the overall shape of an incandescent, but don't actually look anything like a normal bulb shape), $6 each. Actually very bright for 7W (I've learned that the number they quote has nothing to do with actual output, just input, so if you have the opportunity, you might want to compare as many different brands and models as possible). For the last one, I found a CF bulb that they actually put inside a lightbulb-shaped outer bulb, it works perfect even for bulb-mounted lampshades. $12 by itself, though, so if you have a lot of functional table lamps with bulb mounted shades, it might cost less to outright replace the lamps themselves.

    23. Re:CFLBs by Detritus · · Score: 1

      Compare the output spectrum of the two types of bulbs. Incandescent bulbs produce an even distribution of energy across the visible light range. Fluorescent bulbs produce an output spectrum that is a few peaks and mostly valleys, due to the way fluorescent bulbs work. If it was audio, an incandescent would produce white noise and a fluorescent would sound like a bagpipe. Colors will never look quite right under fluorescent lighting.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    24. Re:CFLBs by FroMan · · Score: 1

      You might want to comparison-shop just a bit...

      I have changed over every bulb in my house. It cost me well under $100.


      At around 80 bulbs inside and outside the house, we still did pretty well. There were certain bulbs that cost a us over $8 because of the fixture they had to fit into.

      --
      Norris/Palin 2012
      Fact: We deserve leaders who can kick your ass and field dress your carcass.
    25. Re:CFLBs by pla · · Score: 1

      At around 80 bulbs inside and outside the house

      80 bulbs? Damn, man, if you have a house with 80 lightbulbs, I think you can afford a few hundred dollars to switch to CF!

      I have... (making a quick mental count)... 26 lightbulbs (including rarely-used ones in the attic and cellar that I still haven't changed over to CF because I only turn them on for around ten minutes per year), and multi-bulb fixtures that I currently only keep one active bulb in). And I have a pretty decent sized place - two stories, three bedrooms, formal diningroom...

      80 bulbs? C'mon, you counted things like tinka-tinka lights you put in the windows for the holidays, right? At my per-room rate of lightbulb existance, I'd need another three bathrooms, two livingrooms, and ten bedrooms to hit 80 bulbs.

      Oh! Sir Gates? I didn't realize... Hey, I have this great idea for a program...

    26. Re:CFLBs by EvilJoker · · Score: 1

      The delay and warm-up are not in every bulb. The lights I am under right now (Homier) have no delay and no warm-up period. The downside? They have a very definite blue tint.

      The ones in the next room (G.E., IIRC) have a slight delay, a horrible warm-up period (10 minutes, with the first 5 being only a step above off), and a painfully strong yellow/orange feel.

    27. Re:CFLBs by innocent_white_lamb · · Score: 1

      Believe it or not, one of the toughest light bulbs for applications where things vibrate (ceiling fans, garage door openers, outdoor security lights, etc.) are appliance bulbs made for refrigerators. They will last where a regular rough service (trouble light) bulb won't.

      --
      If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
    28. Re:CFLBs by FroMan · · Score: 1

      Two bulbs on garage outside.
      Two bulbs on front entry outside.
      Two bulbs in garage door opener.
      Two bulbs in garage.
      One bulbs in front entry.
      Ten bulbs in kitchen.
      Thirteen bulbs in great room (dinning room and living room).
      One bulbs in stairs.
      Seven bulbs in main floor bath.
      Two bulbs in hallway.
      Two bulbs in guest bedroom.
      Two bulbs in office.
      Four bulbs in master bedroom.
      Six bulbs in master bath.
      Twelve bulbs in basement.

      My bad... my original rough count was off by ten. Either way, once we get around to furnishing a couple of the rooms lamps will be added and the count will still rise. I don't think our place is too terribley outside the mainstream either in size or lighting.

      Anyways, my original point still stands. Personally, yeah, I don't mind spending a couple hundred dollars on more efficient lights because I can. However, I am not exactly average when it comes to attitudes on conservation. My father, he'd look at the original outlay and say its cheaper to go with the regular bulbs.

      --
      Norris/Palin 2012
      Fact: We deserve leaders who can kick your ass and field dress your carcass.
    29. Re:CFLBs by falconwolf · · Score: 1

      I beg to differ on the lifespan part - I've had 5+ CF bulbs die within a year or two. I think their _theoretical_ lifespan is long, but in practice they're cheaply made and croak early.

      I've never had CFLBs last shorter than a few years.

      Falcon
    30. Re:CFLBs by falconwolf · · Score: 1

      First, and most obvious, is cost. To outfit our house with all CF was nearly $350.

      $350 to outfit your home with CFLs in all lighting fixtures? How many do you have? I've got CFLs in all of my fixtures but one, and that one I don't use, for under $100

      Falcon
    31. Re:CFLBs by rpjs · · Score: 1

      I think it depends on location. We use energy-saving bulbs throughout the house, and the only place where they expire quicker than normally is in the bathroom which is sort of tacked on to the back of the house and so is draftier and colder than the rest of the house - exactly the place I'd be expecting to replace normal lightbulbs more often.

    32. Re:CFLBs by j-beda · · Score: 1
      've had 5+ CF bulbs die within a year or two.

      I just write the date and lifespan (and store) on the bulb base with an indelible marker, and if they give up the ghost too quickly, I bring them back. Most big-box places don't even require a receipt if you are exchanging them.

      I also try to get the 10,000 hour bulbs rather than the 5-6,000 hour bulbs, but the 10,000 hour bulbs are getting more difficult to find.

  2. Conserving electricity by PhiznTRG · · Score: 4, Funny
    I have all my electronic equipment on five minute timers to conserve electri.....


    [no carrier]

  3. Simple, cause blackouts by Ailure · · Score: 2, Funny

    Sure people will be annoyed, but bigger and more the blackouts are, the more power everyone will save. Right?

    1. Re:Simple, cause blackouts by ddewey · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Unfortunately that is the solution the government here in Hangzhou, China uses. During summer 2004 when the temperature was over 100 every day and everyone was using air conditioners, many factories and residences had their power cut off three or four days a week. Most of the larger factories I work with have generators, but when all the factories here have their generators running it makes the air pollution even worse than normal.

      Things might be even worse this coming summer due to El Niño. Perhaps what the Chinese government should do is raise energy prices just like the rest of the world is doing, according to supply and demand. But so far their strategy is mostly forced electricity usage limits instead of price-induced ones.

    2. Re:Simple, cause blackouts by tchuladdiass · · Score: 1

      I've seen a fairly good plan put in place in some parts around here, where the power company can install a remote control for your A/C unit. The plan is that if they are running short on power they can selectively shut off air conditioners for a brief period of time. If you go along with this plan you get a slight discount from the power company, and a bigger discount if they have to enact this plan.

    3. Re:Simple, cause blackouts by plover · · Score: 1
      I have subscribed to that plan at my house now for at least five years. My electric co-op calls it their "Cycled Air Program." There is a control box and a separate electric meter for the air conditioner. When the control box gets the signal from the power company, it goes into a 40 min on / 20 min off cycle. The different customers' boxes are not synchronized, and randomly choose which 20 minutes to be off, with the net controlled power load dropping by 33% overall.

      Last year, they activated the Cycled Air Program on 7 days, for a total of 31 hours (an average of about 4 hours per hot day.) They seem to activate it when the heat index climbs above 90 degrees, or on especially bright cloudless days. Honestly, I can't say that I ever even noticed it kicking in.

      For this, the coop sells me all my A/C electricity at their wholesale cost (not just during the cycled air periods) which is somewhere around ~5.6 cents / kWH, whereas my normal electricty costs me about 8.65 cents / kWH. Their newsletter indicates that participants in the Cycled Air program have helped them delay building a 400 megawatt peak power plant by 10 to 15 years.

      --
      John
  4. Wear warmer clothing by chris_mahan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I wear warmer clothing (sweaters, etc) and thick socks, and eat more, and I use the house heater a lot less.

    Also, accelerating like an anemic grandmother does wonder on your car's fuel consumption. That and using a stick shift (manual transmission for the SOTBE)

    --

    "Piter, too, is dead."

    1. Re:Wear warmer clothing by Leroy_Brown242 · · Score: 1

      This drives my girlfriend nuts. Durring the cold depths of an Oregon winter, I won't turn the heat on.

      "It's cold, can we turn on the heat?"
      "No, gotta save energy! If you're really cold, to curl up behind the server."


      I'm really amazed she's stuck around as long as she has. :)

    2. Re:Wear warmer clothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      she's nuts just like you.

  5. I conserve energy... by LordEd · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...by sitting back and doing nothing.

    Oh, you mean electrical energy? Well, 90% of the lights in my house are compact florescent. Maybe 15 bulbs x 70Wh savings = 1050 watt reduction.

    I have to drive 1h/day (no choice), but my car is decent on gas. I want an electric-hybrid car. Solar panels would be nice too. Its sunny here a good % of the year.

    1. Re:I conserve energy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      don't forget computer CPUs, they burn brighter than lightbulbs nowadays. I'm using a 15watt Pentium MMX, which is saving me money over using a 200watt Pentium IV!

  6. turn off the heat by theblueprint · · Score: 1

    I turn off my heat when I leave for work. It's freezing cold here in Ohio, but I'd rather have to bundle up when I get home than interrupt my downloads. I live in an apartment, so there's little danger of my pipes freezing. With two machines running 24/7, you've got sacrifice something.

    --
    "from the bricks to the booth...I predict the future like Cleo the psychic..."
    1. Re:turn off the heat by SunFan · · Score: 1

      I live in an apartment...

      LOL, recognizing that your neighbors can help heat your apartment is really smart. This is one advantage of not getting an end unit, although there's always the added risk of one more neighbor.

      --
      -- Microsoft is the most expensive commodity operating system and office suite vendor in the marketplace.
    2. Re:turn off the heat by UberChuckie · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Buy a programmable thermostat. I have mine programmed to turn off when I leave for work and turn on shortly before you come home. That way you save energy and still have a warm house when you get home. In addition, I turn the heat off when I go to bed and it comes back on just before the time you get up in the morning. According to gas company, I have used 25% less natural gas than I did last year (it was installed in the summer) and it is colder this winter than last.

    3. Re:turn off the heat by nelsonal · · Score: 1

      I tossed foamboard in the windows. It is dark outside all the time when I am at home from Oct-Mar anyway so insulating cut my winter power use 20%-30% (old apartment with electric heat and single pane windows in Montana). I've been happy as my apartment is less drafty. In the summer I don't use the A/C at night (the only time I care as I am usually out the rest of the day) instead I take a cool shower just before bed and I'm asleep before I warm back up.

      --
      Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
  7. Ten simple tips by elid · · Score: 4, Informative
    1. Re:Ten simple tips by dutky · · Score: 1
      elid wrote:
      Ten simple tips available here

      Overall, the tips are pretty good, except for #9: Turn off the computer. The tip quotes an unnamed source from Lawrence Berkely National Laboratory:
      As Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory points out, "The belief that frequent shutdowns [of PCs] are harmful persists from the days when hard disks did not automatically park their heads when shut off; frequent on-off cycling could damage such hard disks." The lab's experts reassure us that, "Shutting down computers at night and on weekends saves significant energy without affecting the performance."

      First, modern hard disks have a limited number of head parking cycles that they can perform before failing (go read the technical specs on a few 3.5" and 2.5" hard drives and you will find that they have an upper limit).

      Second, modern hard disks are still much more likely to fail during a power cycle than during continuous operation, so gratuitously cycling the power increases the likelihood of a failure, even if the heads park themselves automatically.

      Finally, if you use aggressive power management on your desktop computer, you should be able to get nearly as good a reduction in power consumption as you can by turning the entire system off (you'll need to have a monitor that powers down in response to loss of video signal. Any monitor manufactured in the past decade should do this, but older monitors may not).

      I have all my computers at home set to drop video output after 15 minutes of inactivity and sleep after half an hour. As a result, my office is much cooler than it used to be, and my electicity bill lower by about 30%.

      An easy way to tell if you are effectively saving energy with your computer (or other consumer electronics) is to see if the case of the computer or monitor is warm when it hasn't been in use for a few hours (such as when you come home from work or when you get up in the morning). If the back or top of the case are warm to the touch, then the device has been burning power recently.

    2. Re:Ten simple tips by GoRK · · Score: 1

      An easy way to tell if you are effectively saving energy with your computer (or other consumer electronics) is to see if the case of the computer or monitor is warm when it hasn't been in use for a few hours (such as when you come home from work or when you get up in the morning). If the back or top of the case are warm to the touch, then the device has been burning power recently.

      WTF are computers cars? This suggestion is junk - its totally dependent on how a computer or other device behaves when idle and how the particular system dissapates heat. If you really want to tell how much power your computer uses, then meter it. You can buy a plug-in meter that will tell you exactly how much power something is using for about $30. You can also log the amount of power consumed if you use a smart UPS.

      It's also worth noting that configuring agressive power saving options on your system will probalby involve spinning the HDD down anyway pretty much nullifying the argument against shutting the system down helping hard drive failure.

      The biggest ways to save power on a computer are:

      - Switch to LCD monitors.
      - Use DPMS to sleep your monitor instead of using a screensaver.
      - Configure your computer to suspend/hibernate after a period of time. Use suspend+wake on lan if you need remote access to your home computer, say, from work.
      - Buy energy efficient processors. Intel is coming out with Pentium-M's for the desktop now. There's also VIA's C3's which are very lightweight power consumers considering power/performance anyway.

      You also ought to buy a good quality power supply because it will provide cleaner power during power on/off and in general make your components last longer. It will probably also do better in standby mode when it has to provide a decent amount of power without fans cooling it and stuff.

      Another recommendation is to purchase a BitsLimited Smartstrip power strip. You can use either a monitor or your computer on the control outlet to automatically switch task lighting on and off with either the system power or the screensaver. It's pretty neat to go up to your computer when the screen is blanked, move the mouse, and have the whole desk light up. If you walk away for 20 minutes, your lights and everything will automatically shut off when your monitor blanks.

  8. I've cut down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    On Slashdot. Now I only reload every other second.

  9. Ultimate conservation of energy by tod_miller · · Score: 1

    I try and sleep instead of working, but sometimes I forget to turn off the monitor, so maybe it doesn't count?

    From the fell-asleep-at-the-keyboard department

    --
    #hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
  10. not having enough money to do trips.. by gl4ss · · Score: 1

    that would require flying.

    sitting most of the days at home on a computer(no fossil fuels used, although i can only hope that my electricity comes from nuclear powerplant).

    walking to nearby grocery store to get the food.

    thats about it.

    had i more disposable income i'd certainly use more energy.

    --
    world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
  11. I save energy by by coolcold · · Score: 1

    switching off my monitor when my computer is on overnight

    it's not meant to be funny since my computer also serve as internet sharing server and will soon be webserver

    --
    I am harvesting funny/good quotes. Please help by putting them in your sigs :)
    1. Re:I save energy by by mutterc · · Score: 1
      Most modern monitors / video cards should support DPMS.

      When in the DPMS off state, monitors consume less than 5 watts, which is pretty much negligible.

      So have your power-saving screensaver turn off the monitor using DPMS (not too often if it's a CRT - you stress the hardware that way - maybe after an hour or so of inactivity). That way you needn't remember to power the monitor off; just power it off when you're going to be not using it for a day or two.

  12. "Historic Nominal" == ??? by mosel-saar-ruwer · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    historic nominal prices

    Huh?

    Take me, for example. I'm looking to cut much of my consumption, including moving closer to work to cut my commute, possibly putting a throttle restrictor plate in my car, buying fluorescent lights, and even trying to build a small wind/solar generator. I love technology, and I'd love to see how it can be used to reduce demands for power rather than just being able to make more power more cheaply (conservation arguably being the better side of the energy coin). I'm even interested in how folks conserve other things too - I'm always amazed at how many plastic (or paper) bags the grocer insists on giving me every week and how much waste society generates in the form of packaging.

    Good grief. Have you considered Thorazine?

  13. What for? by erykjj · · Score: 1

    My rent has electricity included. I intend to get my money's worth.

    1. Re:What for? by Leroy_Brown242 · · Score: 1

      I had that deal for a while. But they eventually told me that if I didn't cut back on usage, they would be forced to raise my rent.

      So, I moved. :)

  14. False Logic by Usquebaugh · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Energy conservation doesn't solve the energy problem!

    The problem is that we are using energy far quicker than it is created or the by products of energy production can be consumed.

    All conservation does it make the energy source last longer it does not solve the under lying problem. I tend to the idea that prolonging our dependence is a very bad idea.

    1. Re:False Logic by SunFan · · Score: 3, Insightful


      Of course conservation isn't the silver bullet of environmentalism, but to say conservation is bad is nuts. If I can save a hundred dollars in heating fuel, I will.

      --
      -- Microsoft is the most expensive commodity operating system and office suite vendor in the marketplace.
    2. Re:False Logic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What energy crisis are we even talking about? I pay for the energy I use and it keeps being delivered to me. I'm almost 30 and still don't drive (no license, no car, no interest - ever) but I think people who whine about gas prises are idiotic. Oh, boo-hoo, $2.50/gallon for gas? Dude, if you can travel for about 15 cents per mile, that's pretty good. Why are people bitching about that?!

    3. Re:False Logic by cambipular · · Score: 1

      I was going to back you up by finding out how many thousands of years it takes to go from organic material to oil, but after 10 minutes of trying to figure it out, all I can come up with is that it takes a long time.

    4. Re:False Logic by SunFan · · Score: 1

      Why are people bitching about that?!

      The people complaining the loudest are probably the ones who bought SUVs to be fashionable but didn't think what "40 Gallons" on the window sticker really meant.

      --
      -- Microsoft is the most expensive commodity operating system and office suite vendor in the marketplace.
    5. Re:False Logic by pclminion · · Score: 1
      All conservation does it make the energy source last longer it does not solve the under lying problem. I tend to the idea that prolonging our dependence is a very bad idea.

      This argument is bullshit. Observe:

      All law enforcement does is remove criminals from the streets, it does not solve the underlying problem of violence in our society. I tend to the idea that attempting to incarcerate criminals is a very bad idea.

      Basically you're saying that we should make the problem as bad as possible so that people will notice that it's a problem.

    6. Re:False Logic by bcattwoo · · Score: 1
      The problem is that we are using energy far quicker than it is created or the by products of energy production can be consumed...... All conservation does it make the energy source last longer it does not solve the under lying problem.

      Speaking of false logic. Well, if we reduce energy consumption to a level that is less than the rate at which it is created then we have solved the problem as expressed in the first quoted sentence, no?

      I'll admit that is not a likely scenario so that conserving itself does not solve the problem, but it isn't like we have to choosing between conserving and looking for alternative energy sources. Buying a CF bulb, taking the bus to work, and turning your thermostat down don't have any effect on whether a nuclear plant gets built or if fusion generators will be developed in the next decade. They do however reduce demand for fossil fuels and pollution. reducing demand also makes it easier to fill the gap with "green" energy than if using it wastefully.

      I don't think accelerating towards a full blown energy crisis is any better than drawing it out.

    7. Re:False Logic by Hard_Code · · Score: 1

      Even so it doesn't makes sense, due to the laws of conservation of energy. We can NEVER create energy, so even if we do "nothing" we will still WASTE energy. The idea is not to stop using all energy (duh) but to simply waste as little as possible.

      Perhaps the grandparent was referring to finite fossile fuels, but he didn't say so. Even if we were entirely solar/thermal/wind, we'd STILL want to conserve, because the more energy you use the more energy you waste which leads to environmental problems at some point.

      --

      It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
    8. Re:False Logic by pclminion · · Score: 1
      Even if we were entirely solar/thermal/wind, we'd STILL want to conserve, because the more energy you use the more energy you waste which leads to environmental problems at some point.

      While I absolutely agree that conservation should be a core human value regardless of how much energy we have laying around, I don't see that this statement makes physical sense.

      The earth is at an energy equilibrium, with the amount of energy entering the system from the sun being equal to the amount going out. If this were not true, the earth would be progressively heating up, and it would continue to heat up until equilibrium was reestablished. Simply by capturing a portion of that solar energy and putting it to use before it turns to heat cannot alter this energy balance because the total energy input to the system remains the same. In order for the equilibrium to change, the energy would have to be stored permanently somewhere.

      Consider the heat capacity of the atmosphere. In order to raise the equilibrium temperature of the atmosphere by even one degree, an equivalent amount of energy would have to be stored somewhere. I don't think humans have the ability to build a battery so huge.

    9. Re:False Logic by AltaMannen · · Score: 1

      Energy conservation solve all kinds of energy problems.

      * Using less energy means you pay for less energy
      * Using less electricity won't overload electrical wiring
      * Conserving resources means they will last longer (sort of the definition)

      Not conserving energy is like trying to drink more water because the water prices are about to go up because someone keeps drinking too much water.

      Or like the marathon runner that runs as quickly as he possibly can so that he'll get farther before he gets too tired to keep running.

    10. Re:False Logic by tardigrades · · Score: 1

      I agree with you here. Im no expert but that energy will be produced whether or not we use it. Keeping engery levels low or constant may prevent building of dams... etc and lead to wind/solar but turning off a light bulb doesnt make you an environment saver. Longer lasting lights for example are a great idea. This is because of a cut down on waste. This is like when people go around saying "we can make hydrogen cars now! Out law combustion engines today!" (over statement). Think about all the waste that would come form trashing the millions of cars. Note that this is coming from a vegan and not an SUV owner.

      --
      really bored? My blog
    11. Re:False Logic by fbjon · · Score: 1

      ..Or like the driver who tells the police officer: "I was running out of gas, so I had to get quickly to the next gas station!"

      --
      True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
    12. Re:False Logic by bryan8m · · Score: 0

      Energy won't be produced if people aren't using it. If we use less, then we lower the demand for it, so it will be produced in smaller quantities. Hydrogen fuel cell cars are a great idea, and solar/wind power. Longer lasting lights, etc are all good.

    13. Re:False Logic by marcus · · Score: 1

      You analogy is bullshit.

      Punishment and reward both have long and successful histories as training tools. The failures of the current criminal justice system have nothing to do with the base concepts, rather the implementation. Add to that there is no market for criminals, they are not bought, sold and consumed.

      Back to energy consumption or conservation, it is a false goal. Every watt that I save today will be consumed by the child born tomorrow, no matter what. If I make conservation a goal in itself, all I will do is artificailly decrease demand, putting downward pressure on prices which will cause others to increase consumption and thus wiping out my conservation efforts.

      In a free market, consumption and conservation are both natural. If you want to see some real reduction in the consumption of anything, all you have to do is reduce the supply. The price will rise and demand will drop.

      Really, if you want to see less oil burned in the US, start blowing up tankers and pipelines. Prices will jump immediately, and the price of compact cars will too.

      Finally, there are two things that directly contribute to improvement of standard of living. One is education, the other is the cost of energy. If you had to till the soil all day to feed yourself, your energy consumption would be very low, as would your SoL. OTOH, if you had a fuel powered tiller to help, you'd be able to either do more and then sell the extra or spend less time and have some time off. Bingo, energy consumption = SoL This assumes that by selling the excess, you can afford to buy some more fuel...there must be a market for your products.

      So, it is really easy to conserve energy if you are serious about it. Go homeless. You'll see your energy consumption and SoL drop to almost zero.

      Cheers,

      --
      Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
      - W. Wriston, former Citibank CEO
    14. Re:False Logic by INetUser · · Score: 1

      Just want to point out that according to the laws of thermodynamics, energy is neither created no destroyed. It only changes its form.

      So, to revise your statement, I guess it would be that we are using energy faster than it's arriving from the sun?

      I have a hard time believing that. I think that we should consider exploiting this energy source more, as well as wind power. I'd rather be living next to a turbine windmill rather than a nuclear power station, so the NIMBY crowd should really shut up a little bit more.

    15. Re:False Logic by Jorkapp · · Score: 1

      If I can save a hundred dollars in heating fuel, I will.
      Simple, trade in your heating-oil furnace for a P4.

      --
      Frink: Nice try floyd, but you were designed for scrubbing, and scrubbing is what you shall do.
    16. Re:False Logic by SunFan · · Score: 2, Funny

      Simple, trade in your heating-oil furnace for a P4.

      I want to heat my home not burn it down!

      --
      -- Microsoft is the most expensive commodity operating system and office suite vendor in the marketplace.
    17. Re:False Logic by pla · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I was going to back you up by finding out how many thousands of years it takes to go from organic material to oil

      To "oil", in the sense of the big underground lakes of black goo, it takes a VERY long time, on the order of millions of years rather than thousands.

      To turn plants into something useable as fuel, however? It takes a few hours to a few months, depending on what you want.

      Slashdot itself recently covered a fellow who has come up with a way to turn just about anything organic into substances similar to the end products of oil refining (gasoline, kerosene, diesel), which even proveably produces more energy than it consumes (discounting the organic waste that goes in for processing, of course), as it uses just the gasseous fractions produced to power the entire process.

      And of course, turning corn (or any high sugar or starch content plant matter) into ethanol (really quite a good fuel - clean, high energy content, no exotic conditions needed to burn it, and not even toxic to humans in reasonable quantities) we've known how to do throughout all of known history.

      And let's not skip the obvious one - firewood. Granted, the way we get it now taps into a resource that takes decades or even centuries to regenerate, but we could specifically use five to ten year rotating microforests of ultra-fast growing plants such as paulownia (particularly interesting because you don't need to replant them when you cut them down - With a bit of care in the first year, a new one just grows from the stump when you chop it down).


      So, can we get new underground-viscous-black-goo-oil on a timescale of a few years? No. But currently, and for at least the next decade or two, the single most efficient way to use solar energy (the only real "source" of new energy available on our planet) has existed on this planet for longer than we have - Photosynthetic green plants. We just need to exercise some care in how we make use of them so as to minimize the environmental impact of harvesting.

    18. Re:False Logic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Really, if you want to see less oil burned in the US, start blowing up tankers and pipelines.

      Just so you know, the tinfoil you use to line your beanie was produced from aluminium, which takes a significant amount of energy to smelt and roll flat.

    19. Re:False Logic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People in the rest of the world pay closer to $5/gallon. Here in the UK, it's more like $6. We're the ones who are moaning.

  15. Almost nothing by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 2, Insightful
    moving closer to work to cut my commute

    Unless you're significantly shortening that drive, the upfront costs of relocation will burn through years' worth of fuel savings.

    possibly putting a throttle restrictor plate in my car

    Are you insane?!? If you want to drive slower, then drive slower. That's a good thing. Do not make your car drastically more unsafe by removing its ability to accelerate quickly when the need arises. When an out-of-control semi is bearing down on me, I'd rather lose an ounce of gas to my foot on the floorboard than a gallon of blood to my face on his grill.

    buying fluorescent lights

    I'd do this if I could find a nice brand that didn't flicker and had a spectrum reasonably close to an incandescent (or better, the sun). I can't stand that 60Hz strobe or the washed-out colors. Any suggestions?

    I'm always amazed at how many plastic (or paper) bags the grocer insists on giving me

    OK, I'm with you there. Basically, I'm one of those greedy, selfish jerks who refuses to compromise his lifestyle. However, I was also raised with "waste not, want not" and I hate the gratuitous use of resources. If I'm only buying one or two things at a store, I tell the cashier that I don't want a bag. I turn the lights off when I leave a room. I use DPMS on my monitors so that they're not painting a picture while I'm asleep. I keep my tires properly inflated. I have an electronic thermostat that's set to 68F during the day (in winter) and cooler at night. In short, I've configured my environment so that it doesn't try to make me comfortable when I'm not around to enjoy it. If everyone took those simple steps, I think we'd save a lot without sacrificing a bit of the creature comforts.

    Oh, and if you're one of those "free heat because I'm on Welfare" people who leaves the heat cranked and the windows open, I hope you catch pneumonia and die.

    --
    Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    1. Re:Almost nothing by nb+caffeine · · Score: 1

      I trive a 97 toyota tercel and live less than 2 miles from my work place. One tank of gas (11 gal) lasts me quite a while. Not like my suv driving friends who live a ways away from their workplace and fill up weekly... heh. I also now have a room full of computers that are not being used becuase theres really no need. My xbox and laptop are really all i need, but then again, my laptop is also the fastest machine i have (and i cheat by charging it at work...) Dont get me started on natural gas prices though. It costs a fortune to keep my apartment at 68 degrees F in the new york winter

      --

      "Something's wrong with you...and I hope we never do meet again." - Deftones When Girls Telephone Boys
    2. Re:Almost nothing by pclminion · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Unless you're significantly shortening that drive, the upfront costs of relocation will burn through years' worth of fuel savings.

      Is it so inconceivable that some people want to save energy regardless of how much it costs to do so? I actually pay a higher rate on my electric bill for "green" energy -- yes, I'm aware that I'm not actually purchasing "green electrons" but that money is directed to sustaining and developing renewable energy resources in the state.

      I just bought 500 watts of photovoltaics, which, given a sufficiently large battery bank, will enable me to run my Mac Mini and the LCD it is connected to entirely off-grid. Did I do that to save money? Obviously not.

      But I guess putting your money where your mouth is when it comes to the environment gets you labeled either insane or stupid, at least in the USA.

    3. Re:Almost nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
      I can't stand that 60Hz strobe

      A fluorescent tube should flicker at 120 Hz since it emits light both during the positive half and negative half of the cycle. If you can see it flicker, it is probably broken.

      Moreover, most compact fluorescent lights work at high frequencies, like 10 kHz.

      or the washed-out colors.

      There are two types of light-emitting phosphor in fluorescent lamps. The cheap one, typically called 'cool white', makes colors look bad because it basically is a mixture of blue and yellow. Since those colors are complimentary, the light itself looks white, but light reflected from green and red surfaces looks too dark.

      The other kind is called 'triphosphor' and is used in more expensive tubes and in all modern compact fluorescents. The light covers the whole visible spectrum and the color is somewhere between daylight and incandescent.

      The spectrum of sunlight is not suitable for indoor use, because the human color perception is a bit different at low light intensity. (Full sunlight: 100000 lux; typical office lighting standards: 500 lux; living room: even less). A solar spectrum with a low light intensity would look rather harsh.

    4. Re:Almost nothing by mellon · · Score: 1

      On the topic of flourescents, there's a really wide range of products out there. You can get full-spectrum compact flourescents, and they do save you money - the bulk costs more, but it uses sufficiently less energy to produce the same light that it's still cheaper. Full-spectrum CFs are not the same as incandescents, BTW - they try to be close to the same spectrum you'd get from direct sunlight, which is a little less warm than incandescent light.

      If you have flourescent tube fixtures, you can also get full spectrum lights for these. They're more expensive than the standard sickly-green tubes, but quite available. There are a wide variety of ballasts available - you don't have to use 60Hz ballasts. Electronic ballasts typically oscillate at 10KHz, which doesn't heterodyne with your TV tube, and doesn't cause eyestrain. I think they are also more energy-efficient, but I'm not positive anymore - it's been a while since I did all the research.

    5. Re:Almost nothing by SunFan · · Score: 1

      "I can't stand that 60Hz strobe or the washed-out colors. Any suggestions?"

      Actually, any good brand-name compact flourescent bulb is fine, IMO. They sell them for like $2 a piece, now, which puts the break even point close enough to be worth it.

      Just don't skimp. I made the mistake of buying a cheapo bulb at a closeout a while back and soon realized why they were on closeout (harsh nasty light).

      --
      -- Microsoft is the most expensive commodity operating system and office suite vendor in the marketplace.
    6. Re:Almost nothing by Luyseyal · · Score: 1
      I'd do this if I could find a nice brand that didn't flicker and had a spectrum reasonably close to an incandescent (or better, the sun). I can't stand that 60Hz strobe or the washed-out colors. Any suggestions?

      Yeah, go to Home Depot and buy the natural light or full-spectrum ones. They're good for indoor plants as well as people. They also use less energy and produce less heat (here in Texas, that's GREAT).

      Secondly, don't just use DPMS. If it's not a server, turn off the computer. <rant>It pisses me off so much when people leave the damn computer on all night and all weekend when it's not doing anything. I mean, you don't leave your car on all night and day just so you don't have to start it. WTF?</rant>

      -l
      die-hard incandescent hater

      --
      Help cure AIDS, cancer, and more. Donate your unused computer time to worldcommunitygrid.org. Join Team Slashdot!
    7. Re:Almost nothing by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Is it so inconceivable that some people want to save energy regardless of how much it costs to do so?

      Sure. Did it occur to you that some people go about it in really stupid ways that cause more problems than they solve? For example, you just trashed the environment to get your photovoltaics so that you could feel good about self-powering your computer. Your pollution-per-watt is much, much higher than the equivalent coming out of your wall.

      I want to live on a nice planet, too, but realistically speaking that means centralizing production to a few good, clean resources (read: nuke) than building hundreds of millions of dirty plants across the country. Short-term "solutions" that make us feel proud of ourselves without actually helping the overall situation are wasteful and not something to aspire to.

      If you're trying to live off the grid to see if you can or as a personal challenge: good for you, and I wish you the best of luck! If you're trying to do it because you think it's making the world a cleaner place, then you've wasted your time, money, and our natural resources.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    8. Re:Almost nothing by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1
      A fluorescent tube should flicker at 120 Hz since it emits light both during the positive half and negative half of the cycle. If you can see it flicker, it is probably broken.

      I particularly notice it when I'm looking at a CRT. The two flickers combined, but just slightly out of sync, absolutely kill me eyes. Since I spent a good part of my life doing so, it's a problem for me.

      Thanks for the other information. I'll have to check it out and see if I can find an acceptable alternative.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    9. Re:Almost nothing by pclminion · · Score: 3, Informative
      For example, you just trashed the environment to get your photovoltaics so that you could feel good about self-powering your computer. Your pollution-per-watt is much, much higher than the equivalent coming out of your wall.

      Utterly wrong. Check your facts, which are about 15 years out of date. Energy payback time for photovoltaics is under two years these days. And I buy PV cells which are manufactured out of reprocessed semiconductor waste from the chip-making industry. The majority of the environmental impact from producing those semiconductors already happened, when they were refined in order to make Pentiums (or whatever else they turned into).

      You're straining to find excuses for being an energy slob, and going about it in a very dishonest way. Get your facts straight. I spent over three months researching all the environmental aspects of this decision. You clearly have invested about 5 minutes of Googling, if even that.

      I want to live on a nice planet, too, but realistically speaking that means centralizing production to a few good, clean resources (read: nuke) than building hundreds of millions of dirty plants across the country.

      We are in agreement about nuclear, but what does that have to do with photovoltaics?

    10. Re:Almost nothing by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      One thing that somewhat limits my flexibility is the model of fixture used in my basement. The guy who finished out our basement used lamp with a built-in ballast that can't be changed (AFAIK) without replacing the entire unit. Even worse, I'm sure that a few of them are going bad, so I expect to be in for a mandatory upgrade in the near future anyway.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    11. Re:Almost nothing by Incongruity · · Score: 1
      The other issue with compact fluorescents is polluction from manufacturing and disposal -- the bulbs themselves have an, albeit small, amount of mercury in them. As it stands now, we have a looming (and present) environmental mercury problem, globally, so disposal of compact fluorescents must be considered, especially as their numbers grow.

      Second, the fluorescents must have a ballast to function -- ballasts found in compact fluorescent bulbs are of either the magnetic or the electronic varieties. The magnetic ones cause the noise and keep the 60Hz strobe effect and they're potentially environmentally unfriendly, both in their manufacture and in their components' disposal. The electronic ones use IC's to do same as the magnetic transformers. IC's and the components do have environmental costs associated with them as well, both in manufacturing and in disposal.

      It takes a lot of energy to manufacture all of the components of a compact fluorescents In the end, I'd bet that compact fluorescent bulb, as compared with the simple(r) process for making an incandescent light bulb. Recycling IC's is something that's generally not done so they, and all their heavy metals and chemical components go straight into landfills (again, along with the mercury in the bulbs)...

      So, the total energy cost is not as great as the hype would lead you to believe -- I'm betting it's still advantageous to use/make compact fluorescents, but not by much and I wouldn't be surprised if I were wrong in that conclusion.

    12. Re:Almost nothing by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1
      Secondly, don't just use DPMS. If it's not a server, turn off the computer.

      There are sound arguments on either side of that one (largely regarding component life, thermal issues, etc.). On a newer computer with on-demand CPU throttling, I don't see a clear advantage to shutting them down completely.

      At any rate, all of my computers are either servers or iMacs, so leaving them on isn't that big of a deal. FWIW, I used to have a FreeBSD server sitting next to my Debian desktop at home. Since I didn't really use the desktop much anymore (I have Internet access at work, and wife/kids preclude me from having all-night hacking sessions at home), I recently combined the two into a FreeBSD server with a KDE desktop and decommissioned the dedicated-desktop machine altogether. That's one less system eating electricity, and I still have a comfortable system for the small amount of computing I do at home these days.

      die-hard incandescent hater

      My biggest use of incandescents is currently at my office. I keep the overhead flurescents turned off, and a 40W lamp turned on for a little bit of light. Thanks to some of the suggestions above, I'll probably look into replacing that little lamp with a compact flurescent sometime soon.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    13. Re:Almost nothing by SpaFF · · Score: 1

      trive a 97 toyota tercel and live less than 2 miles from my work place.

      If you live less than 2 miles from your work place maybe you should walk or ride a bicycle instead of laughing at your SUV-driving friends.

      --
      -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GIT d? s: a-- C++++ UL++++ P++ L+++ E- W++ N o-- K- w--- O- M+ V PS+ P
    14. Re:Almost nothing by alienw · · Score: 1

      I've yet to see a compact fluorescent bulb that flickers at 60Hz. Modern bulbs run off of switching inverters with frequencies in the 20KHz region. The only ones I've seen that had 60Hz flicker were cheap shoplights.

    15. Re:Almost nothing by Tumbleweed · · Score: 1

      I mean, you don't leave your car on all night and day just so you don't have to start it.

      Hey, that's a great idea, thanks for the tip! :)

      I think I need to buy some gas today - reports have it increasing in the US by around 25 cents per gallon over the next two days, FYI. :(

    16. Re:Almost nothing by alienw · · Score: 1

      Guess why PV panels cost hundreds of dollars: they take LOTS of energy to make! If they didn't require lots of energy to make, they would be dirt cheap.

      As far as solar panels paying for themselves: a $600 solar panel that puts out a hundred watts (that's how much they cost) is not going to pay for itself in its lifetime. Assuming the solar panel gets a yearly average of 6 hours of max power output a day (VERY optimistic), it will only produce about 219 KW-h per year. Assuming perfect conversion efficiency and 100% use, you save about $25 worth of electricity a year. At that rate, it would take about 30 years to just pay for the solar panel! You are neither saving energy nor reducing pollution.

    17. Re:Almost nothing by alienw · · Score: 1

      Bah. "Toxic" metals do not cause pollution, as much as various environmentalists would like you to believe. Let's see, what's worse, a drop of mercury in a landfill or a few thousand tons of CO2 in the air? Besides, where the hell do you think mercury comes from? All heavy metals are naturally occurring minerals.

    18. Re:Almost nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting
      Interesting phenomenon, nonlinear mixing of light in the human eye. I won't deny that it is a problem for you, but I can't think of a reasonable mechanism that can make you see optical interference between a CRT and a fluorescent tube. So you are saying that you don't notice the 120 Hz from the f.t. by itself, nor the refresh rate of your CRT, but you do when both are switched on?

      btw, you won't find the word 'triphosphor' on a lamp. Just avoid "coolwhite" and "warmwhite".

    19. Re:Almost nothing by bluGill · · Score: 2, Informative

      It costs a fortune to keep my apartment at 68 degrees F in the new york winter

      Here, have a sweater. Put some blankets on the couch. Turn that thermostat down to 60 or less. You need heat to keep the pipes from freezing.

      Turn the heat up if you are sick, otherwise 60 is plenty hot.

    20. Re:Almost nothing by bluGill · · Score: 1

      I'd do this if I could find a nice brand that didn't flicker and had a spectrum reasonably close to an incandescent (or better, the sun). I can't stand that 60Hz strobe or the washed-out colors. Any suggestions?

      Yeah, get a 20 watt normal bulb, put it on a dimmer, and use that with the CF. Find the dimmer setting that flushes out the spectrum right for you. IT still wastes a lot of power, but less than a 60 watt bulb.

    21. Re:Almost nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Regarding the mercury: that's why you're not supposed to throw them into the garbage bin after use.

      Regarding overall costs: a 20 W CFB will replace 5 100W candescent bulbs, each with 1000h lifetime. That is 400 kWh, or roughly 75 kg of fossil fuels. No way that the few electronic components cost that kind of energy.

    22. Re:Almost nothing by pclminion · · Score: 1
      Guess why PV panels cost hundreds of dollars: they take LOTS of energy to make!

      And the payback time for that energy is on the order of two years. The panels will be operational far longer than that.

      As far as solar panels paying for themselves: a $600 solar panel that puts out a hundred watts (that's how much they cost) is not going to pay for itself in its lifetime.

      This is simply WRONG. The 500 watts of panels I just purchased cost me $1500. That's $3 per watt, as opposed to your made-up figure of $6 per watt.

      If your purpose is to push nuclear as a viable power source, by all means do so, I am in complete agreement that nuclear is the best way to go. But do NOT push your agenda by impugning a perfectly viable option which can serve us well in the meantime.

      I challenge you to produce five independent reports that show that modern PV manufacturing processes result in a net energy deficit over a period of 20 years. In fact, I'll make it easier for you. Give me three reports.

    23. Re:Almost nothing by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1
      I can't think of a reasonable mechanism that can make you see optical interference between a CRT and a fluorescent tube.

      Someone below used "hysteresis", but I'm not sure if that's the right word. Basically, I noticed a regular intense flickering. It's very fast, to the point of being nearly unnoticeable unless I'm looking for it, but it's a real killer when it's happening.

      So you are saying that you don't notice the 120 Hz from the f.t. by itself, nor the refresh rate of your CRT, but you do when both are switched on?

      That is correct, although fluorescents annoy me slightly even without a CRT around to accentuate the problem.

      You have to understand, though, that I'm one of those hyper-picky people who's bothered by digital cable or satellite because I can't not see the JPEG artifacting. Other people think the picture looks great, but I can't avoid noticing the banding and square color regions. I think I've been around video systems too long. :-/

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    24. Re:Almost nothing by alienw · · Score: 1

      Well, first, it's not a made-up figure, it is the lowest price for a panel that I was able to find with Froogle. I don't know where the hell you found 500W panels for $1500, because real prices seem to be quite different. Besides, it still doesn't change the equation -- using the most optimistic power output predictions, they pay off in about 15 years. You don't need 3 reports, you need a brain and a calculator.

    25. Re:Almost nothing by Dachannien · · Score: 1

      It's really refreshing to see an environmentalist without an irrational fear of nuclear power.

      By the way, if it really takes an individual three months to research the purchase of photovoltaics, you'd be doing everyone a service if you shared that research concisely so that the rest of us can spend 5 minutes getting caught up.

    26. Re:Almost nothing by Incongruity · · Score: 1
      You're kidding, right?

      First off, you rarely find elemental mercury in the environment that hasn't been put there by man. Yes, mercury is "natural" but that doesn't mean it's natural to find high concentrations of it free, in the environment. Lots of the "natural" mercury is locked up in other compounds, often deep below the surface.

      Second off, I'd actually say that mercury in the landfill will give your CO2 a run for its money. check out some of the recent press coverage. Really quick, here's a link to a story in Discover: http://www.discover.com/issues/mar-05/features/our -preferred-poison/ and if you look a bit further, you'll find all sorts of other recent publications on the present dangers of mercury.

    27. Re:Almost nothing by raygundan · · Score: 3, Informative

      You two are arguing about different things. He's talking about "energy payoff" and you're talking about "financial payoff."

      You're both right. Electricity is so cheap right now that *financial* payoff can take more than a decade. In terms of the energy requirement for production, though, panels pay themselves off in a few years (my research put the figure at more like 3 or 4 years).

      So, to set a few things straight:

      1. Buying panels is only a financial gain in the long-term. To pay themselves off at today's power rates (assuming they don't increase) it will take more than a decade. However, the panels will last a good 20 years, and they *will* be a financial gain in the long run.

      2. Producing panels does not "use more energy than the panels will produce." The panels will produce enough energy to pay this back in a few years-- it varies by panel, but in the 3-4 year ballpark. And again, they will last around 20 years.

      However, assuming that in their entire lifetime the panels only made 1.1x the amount of energy required to make them, it's still a net gain. Can you think of another way to invest 100kwhs and some cash, and end up with 110kwhs? And in this case, the numbers are more like 100kwhs, some cash, and ending up with 500kwhs and more cash than you started with.

      It does sound like he got a hell of a deal, though. The systems I've been looking at cost about as much as a small car.

    28. Re:Almost nothing by chasingporsches · · Score: 1

      THIS PLACE has very warm, 2500K, compact flourescents on sale for $1.97. they also have other temperatures. they are quite nice, we use them and they have great color qualities.

    29. Re:Almost nothing by pclminion · · Score: 1
      It does sound like he got a hell of a deal, though. The systems I've been looking at cost about as much as a small car.

      The panels I purchased are BP-850's which as far as I know were recently discontinued. The newer model is even more efficient. That is part of the reason the price was good.

      The other reason was that we got 20 people together and literally ordered a semi-truck full of panels. That really cuts down the shipping costs for four tons of solar panels!

    30. Re:Almost nothing by pclminion · · Score: 1

      I know, I know... You're not the only person hounding me to do a writeup on this entire process :-) Once the installation is complete, tested, and burned in I'll start thinking about it.

    31. Re:Almost nothing by cmowire · · Score: 1

      Here's the fun one...

      We've made it worse.

      First, the lifespan of a tube is directly related to the amount of Mercury in it. Over time, as impurities work their way into the tube, the mercury will combine with them. Once all of the mercury is combined and unavailable, it's just Argon gas, which doesn't look so hot -- it'll flicker and be reddish.

      What did the EPA do? Made a big deal about the mercury in landfills and kept forcing, through a variety of ways, the manufacturers to put less mercury in each tube. Meaning that the tubes don't last as long as they used to. Put a good sized blob in there, the tubes suddenly last much longer. Although that sounds scary, consider what happens if your average tube lasted 20-30 years... you wouldn't be complaining very much if you had to put it in the special disposal bin like a TV.

      Oh yeah, and they made it impossible for folks to put some neon and krypton with the Argon in the flourescent tubes, to make them able to light up at colder temperatures.

      Next fun bit..... hot cathodes. There's not much of a difference between a switching hot cathode "balast" and a switching cold cathode "transformer". Except that the cold cathode transformer is 990 volts instead of 110 volts. It works even better if you can get a few thousand volts, but that's not allowed for perminant residential instalation. Well, the fun bit is that a properly made cold cathode tube will work, literally, until you break it, because the electrodes generally do not wear out. I saw an exhibition of neon beer signs from the 50s and 60s (neon is another name for cold cathode) that were the origional glass and sometimes even the origional transformer. Furthermore, you can dim them down as low as 5% of full illumination with cold cathode and they start up instantly.

      Oh yeah, and LEDs. Those are GREAT. The LED manufacturers are trying to build an economy of scale, so they are convincing people to replace their efficent flourescent and cold cathode tubing and signs with less-efficent LEDs. And you trade the simple problem of collecting mercury for the larger problem of disposing a wide variety of semiconductor manufacturing polutants. You still end up wanting some sort of semiconductor-based driver circuit. You still end up with not-exactly-healthy phosphors. And blue LEDs are less efficent at producing the blue+UV light that argon and mercury does.

      Furthermore, the big contribution to the environmental mercury problem isn't flourescent tubes. It's coal stacks that are not just putting out mercury, they are putting out mercury compounds (for reference, mercury the metal is relatively harmless, unable to cross the blood-brain barrier, and can be excreted. Mercury compounds can cross the blood-brain barrier and, depending on what the mercury is bound to, can kill you in amounts as small as a drop or two). Whereas flourescent tubes in the dump merely mean that you don't want to let landfills contaminate groundwater.

      This rapidly descends into an argument why we are really stupid for letting whacko environmentalists who don't know what they are talking about talk the country into not building nuclear plants.

      I still want somebody to tell me if it's more efficent for me to use up a few paper towels instead of those hot-air thingies after I wash my hands, though.

    32. Re:Almost nothing by Luyseyal · · Score: 1
      There are sound arguments on either side of that one (largely regarding component life, thermal issues, etc.). On a newer computer with on-demand CPU throttling, I don't see a clear advantage to shutting them down completely.

      Sounds like FUD to me. The clear advantage is that you buy no electricity when it's turned off.

      Besides, most users don't use suspend to disk or something and have it in PM mode. They just leave it on at full blast. You press the enter key, you get the desktop in about a second. This is obviously harder on the hardware than shutting it down for over half the week (Sat + Sun + 5pm-8am M-F). You can halve the MTBF on your hard drive just by spinning it down at night and on weekends.

      Anyway, I'm not harshin' on ya. It was a rant directed at stupid behavior I see at the office everyday. :)

      Cheers,
      -l

      --
      Help cure AIDS, cancer, and more. Donate your unused computer time to worldcommunitygrid.org. Join Team Slashdot!
    33. Re:Almost nothing by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1
      You can halve the MTBF on your hard drive just by spinning it down at night and on weekends.

      I think you meant "double". I hope.

      As long as that's the only time you spin it down, sure. But note that most drives have a finite (and quite small) rated number of powercycles; I think a Maxtor I had recently was rated for around 10,000. Say you set aggressive PM on a machine that's actually used fairly frequently, and it ends up cycling 20 times per day. Great - now you have an estimated life of about 500 days. I'm reasonably sure (although I haven't done the math) that just leaving the drive running will actually save money on the replacement cost versus electrical savings, and I'm certain it'll save environmental costs.

      Anyway, I'm not harshin' on ya. It was a rant directed at stupid behavior I see at the office everyday. :)

      Oh, I know, but understand that I've seen long, well-argued flame wars on this exact subject and both sides made pretty strong cases for their points of view. Just sayin' it's not completely straightforward, that's all. :-)

      BTW, my next acquisition is going to be a Soekris board to replace the Alpha I've been using as a firewall/router. Again, I haven't done the math, but I'm almost positive that will pay for itself in less than a year.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    34. Re:Almost nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is it so inconceivable that some people want to save energy regardless of how much it costs to do so?

      "Cost" is not a dirty word. It is a measure of the resources that it took to implement a particular effort. Resources here include both natural resources -- and all the industry it takes to mine and process them -- and human ingenuity and labor. If people are spending time and effort just to move, they're not spending time and effort to save the spotted owl. If they need a truck to move, they're using up energy and causing pollution, not to mention having the heavy industry to have built that truck. Most of these effects are summarizes in the scalar "cost".*

      It is not a virtue to spend vast amounts of effort and resources to save a little bit of effort and resources. Many people like to feel smug by disdaining the cost of their environmental efforts, but in fact the high-cost solutions are the less effective, pretty much by definition.

      * Note that where cost breaks down, it's usually because of an actual cost that's not properly accounted for. Pollution is the classic example, as it's usually treated as "free", which of course it's not. But this means that the actual cost is even higher than the apparent cost, and so the point does not effect this argument.

    35. Re:Almost nothing by pclminion · · Score: 1
      "Cost" is not a dirty word. It is a measure of the resources that it took to implement a particular effort.

      I don't believe he was using the word in that sense.

      I am not advocating that we implement any and every "plan" for energy conservation that comes along regardless of cost, financial or otherwise. I was commenting on how many individuals refuse to take even simple steps which clearly reduce their energy consumption just because it doesn't save them any money.

      You're exploding the argument into something more general than what I was addressing.

    36. Re:Almost nothing by nb+caffeine · · Score: 1

      not in western NY winter. UGH, its almost too cold to smoke a cig outside (almost) let alone walk to work. Summer time, i may bust out my bike though.

      --

      "Something's wrong with you...and I hope we never do meet again." - Deftones When Girls Telephone Boys
    37. Re:Almost nothing by rw2 · · Score: 1

      It's really refreshing to see an environmentalist without an irrational fear of nuclear power.

      Yes, especially when there are so many rational reasons to be wary...

    38. Re:Almost nothing by RzUpAnmsCwrds · · Score: 1

      Saving energy is an optimization problem.

      You used your money to by PV cells to run your Mac Mini. Yet, your Mini is 85W *peak*. Add your LCD, and we're talking around 150W.

      What if, instead, you had spent the $1500 to:

      - Replace outdated or inefficent appliances
      - Service your vehicle to ensure it is running at maximum efficency
      - Purchase compact-flourescent lights
      - Add insulation to your house
      - Install energy-efficent windows
      - Purchase renewable-resource energy credits from your energy provider
      - Invest in a renewable energy cooperative
      - Cover the cost differential to purchase biodiesel

      Now, perhaps you have done some - or all - of these things already. If you have, perhaps the PV cells were a good investment.

      However, there are at least 20 ways that most people - particularly in the USA - could spend $1500 that would lead to a greater reduction in energy use.

      Running your 150W computer setup on PV cells isn't necessarily going to do a lot. My Athlon 64 box draws - from the wall, including PSU inefficency - 54W at idle. My entire setup is 104W. This is measured, at the wall.

      When I stop using it for 10 minutes, it goes to S3 suspend. The monitor is off, the computer is (mostly) off. Measured power draw is under 1W.

      Typical monthly energy usage for my computer is 23KWh.

      Compare that with my car. 1 gallon of gas is approximately 37KWh of chemical energy. I go through that much energy *every day* with my vehicle.

      Even in a Prius, with 20 miles of usage, at the ideal 55MPG, that's 13KWh per day.

      There are bigger fish to fry than your Mac Mini.

    39. Re:Almost nothing by Luyseyal · · Score: 1
      Yeah, I meant double. :)
      As long as that's the only time you spin it down, sure. But note that most drives have a finite (and quite small) rated number of powercycles; I think a Maxtor I had recently was rated for around 10,000. Say you set aggressive PM on a machine that's actually used fairly frequently, and it ends up cycling 20 times per day. Great - now you have an estimated life of about 500 days. I'm reasonably sure (although I haven't done the math) that just leaving the drive running will actually save money on the replacement cost versus electrical savings, and I'm certain it'll save environmental costs.

      In my experience, it's the drives that get used all the time that get hosed, not the ones that spend their nights sleeping. I don't think you need to shut down every time you go to the bathroom or anything, but not rebooting a crappy drive for 180 days is gonna eat up way more of the drive's hourly life than its start/stop cycles. For a drive rated at 150000 hours and 10000 start/stop cycles, that eats up a whole 2.88% of hours versus 0.01% of start/stop cycles. Whereas, if you had it running only 8 hours a day for those 180 days, you'd've spent only 0.96% of hours and 1.8% of cycles. Factoring in weekends, that's 1.32% of cycles. And we're talking about a shitty 10000 start/stop cycle, 150000 MTBF drive. Most desktop drives are 30k - 50k according to this PC Guide. At just 20000 cycles, as several 10000RPM drives are rated today, the figure drops to just 0.66% of cycles.

      Bleh, math, anyway, point being, shutting down overnight and weekends won't hurt the hard drive within any reasonable timeframe.

      -l

      --
      Help cure AIDS, cancer, and more. Donate your unused computer time to worldcommunitygrid.org. Join Team Slashdot!
    40. Re:Almost nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ok, so it will take 15 years for you to pay them off and not 30.

    41. Re:Almost nothing by alienw · · Score: 1

      The article you linked to is a good example of sensationalist reporting. I think it would be safe to say that 70% of it is complete BS. I like this tidbit though:
      In the United States coal-fired power plants alone pump about 50 tons of it into the air each year.
      I think this completely invalidates your point about fluorescent lamps.

      Liquid mercury is not terribly dangerous, even if swallowed. Mercury vapor is fairly harmful, but you won't ever get exposed to it if it's in an open-air landfill (and there is already lots of it in the atmosphere). Mercury is most dangerous when it's in some kind of soluble compound, but that's not likely to happen if it's buried in a landfill. The only concern would be groundwater contamination, and landfills already have safeguards against that.

    42. Re:Almost nothing by swillden · · Score: 1

      You two are arguing about different things. He's talking about "energy payoff" and you're talking about "financial payoff."

      Right, and neither of them is addressing the original poster's claim, that a solar panel's production creates more pollution per KWh of electricity produced than burning coal does.

      I don't know if that's true or not, but it's very interesting.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    43. Re:Almost nothing by Incongruity · · Score: 1
      No, the fact that coal plants pump a lot of mercury into the air doesn't mean that another source of mercury -- this one brought into our homes, should be ignored. Are coal plants worrisome? yes. I'm a supporter of alternative energy sources for power, sure. I should note, your acceptance of this argument invalidates your earlier point that mercury was "natural" and commonly found in the environment, naturally -- no, instead, it's found in coal, amongst other things, usually deep within the earth, just as I said.

      Now, if you don't like the discover article that I dug up quickly, how about a peer-reviewed journal article? Here's an abstract of one (there are more -- http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd= Retrieve&db=pubmed&list_uids=8354179&dopt=Citation

      Now, you're right, it's mercury compounds that cause serious problems, but elemental mercury is still an issue (another peer-reviewed publication, this time a case report that illustrates my point: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd= Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1645633&dopt=Citation ) -- the sticky point with your argument is that mercury compounds end up being formed by mercury loose in the environment and it's also not all that hard for it to be vaporized. Additionally, I should note, that the mercury in the compact fluorescent bulbs ends up as a vapor, especially if they're broken.

      My point in all of this, was and is, that compact fluorescent bulbs are not as perfect of a solution as it may seem at first blush. How it all shakes out in the end wasn't completely my point, in fact, as you can double check, I said that I expected CFB's come out the better -- but after a bit more reading, I revise that and say that they're only better inasmuch as they use less power and, while most power (in the US, at least) comes from coal that's an important difference. However, when we move away from coal, the issues with CFB's become more compelling.

    44. Re:Almost nothing by cmowire · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yeah.

      Unfortunately, most of them revolve around irrational whackos getting in the way.

      We don't shut down coal or oil or natural gas power plants after 30 years, we upgrade them. Yet we worry about how to decomission power plants properly?

      More people are killed each year in accidents at non-nuclear-related plants, mines, and processing facilities than are killed at nuclear plants, mines, and processing facilities.

      The radiation put out by the thorium and uranium in coal is greater than the allowable amount of radation allowed out of a nuclear power plant.

      We don't build Chenobryl-style reactors anymore. Three Mile Island was about as bad as things could get with our reactors and a pebble bed or IFR is even safer. Remember, if TMI was so bad, why wasn't there a cancer spike?

      Nuclear waste is only a problem because we're not allowed to reprocess it. We already know how to reprocess the fuel to get more use out of it. We also have a good line about how to deal with the really toxic stuff -- bombard it with neutrons in a controlled fashion to reduce all of the stuff that won't burn in a reactor will be transmuted to lead.

      Remember, the really radioactive stuff that makes it dangerous to be around and hot to the touch is much decayed after periods as short as 10 years.

      Yep... Only rational reason to be wary is just the problems caused by irrational folk.

    45. Re:Almost nothing by pclminion · · Score: 1
      Jeez man, talk about stupid assumptions...

      Replace outdated or inefficent appliances

      Already done. My washer and drier use 1/4 the energy and water of a typical appliance. I just got an energy saving dishwasher, too.

      Service your vehicle to ensure it is running at maximum efficency

      Done. Every four months.

      Purchase compact-flourescent lights

      Every light in the house which can be, is.

      Add insulation to your house

      The previous owner took care of that. Visually inspected by myself. Great condition.

      Install energy-efficent windows

      This is next on my list. But if you think you can do it for anywhere close to$1500, you're insane. On this house the cost will be pushing $20,000.

      Purchase renewable-resource energy credits from your energy provider

      I do. I also spend extra for "Green" energy, which helps fund advances in renewable technology.

      Invest in a renewable energy cooperative

      I'm helping in the design process for a megawatt-sized solar facility, does that count?

      Cover the cost differential to purchase biodiesel

      I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that, but if you explain, I'll consider it.

    46. Re:Almost nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rather. I wonder what the total environmental burden of making the photovoltaic panels actually is, and whether or not an assumption of 15-20 years of use would lead to the conclusion that burning 15-20 years of coal is really less of an energy waste & environmental burden than making the panels.

      Somehow, I doubt it.

    47. Re:Almost nothing by alienw · · Score: 1

      The tiny amount of mercury vapor inside a broken fluorescent bulb is not harmful, even if you break one. Regular fluorescent tubes often get broken during installation, and I've never heard of anyone getting mercury poisoning from one (and a 4 foot tube has a lot more mercury vapor in it than a tiny compact fluorescent). In the paper you linked to, they spilled an entire ounce of liquid mercury -- yeah, that might be a problem.

      Also, if you think we are going to move away from coal, even in 50 years, you are deluding yourself. Coal power is cheaper than most other forms of electrical power, and most people care more about their pocketbook than the environment. Not to mention that the only viable alternative to coal is (and will be) nuclear power.

    48. Re:Almost nothing by alienw · · Score: 1

      Sounds like you flunked basic physics. When two frequencies are added, you get a beat frequency that is equal to the difference between the two. If you have a 120Hz flicker from the lights and an 85Hz flicker from the monitor, you get a 35Hz beat frequency -- VERY noticeable and annoying.

    49. Re:Almost nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Sounds like you flunked basic physics. When two frequencies are added, you get a beat frequency that is equal to the difference between the two.

      I am a PhD in physics, thank you. (anonymous since I moderated) You are thinking of interference between waves, where you add amplitudes of a field but measure intensity (amplitude squared). You would indeed get this kind of interference if you mixed two laser beams at 500.000000 nm and 500.000001 nm. With two flickering sources of incoherent light, however, you add intensities and there's no beat.

      You *would* get mixing (resulting in a beat) if the signal S that the receptors in the retina generate is not proportional to the light intensity I, e.g. S = aI + bI^2. I don't think these receptors are anywhere near saturation at indoor light intensities, hence my skepticism.

      Things that I can think of that might be the cause: magnetic field from the ballast is interfering with the computer screen; bad fluorescent tube (one cathode is working better than the other, causing a 60 Hz component in the light intensity).

    50. Re:Almost nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm always amazed at people who nothing about
      electronics saying things like, "it will pay
      for itself in 2-4 years". Well, I sat down
      and really thought about it. You will need
      to study solar insolation, cell efficiency/temp
      curves, and a lot more. You will be disappointed.

      The current tech of glass cased, monocrystaline
      panels will take about 300 years of operation
      to produce the electricity to pay for themselves.
      Sorry dear, that's reality. If you want to blow
      smoke and say two years, I'm happy for you, but
      you are wrong and don't have a clue. Good luck
      convincing an electronic engineer (that's me).

    51. Re:Almost nothing by Zoyd · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I wonder what the total environmental burden of making the photovoltaic panels actually is

      http://www.phyast.pitt.edu/~blc/book/chapter14.htm l

      ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS OF SOLAR ELECTRICITY

      Even if there were a competition between solar and nuclear electricity, there is no technically valid reason to prefer the former. It was pointed out previously that production of the materials for deploying a solar cell array requires burning 3% as much coal as would be burned in generating the same amount of electricity in coal-burning power plants. Roughly the same is true for the power tower and wind turbine applications of solar energy. That means that they produce 3% as much air pollution as coal burning. This is not a great environmental problem, but it still makes them more harmful to health than nuclear power. In addition, there are long-term waste problems, discussed in Chapter 12, which pose many times more of a health problem than the widely publicized nuclear waste. There are lots of poisonous chemicals used in fabricating solar cells, such as hydrofluoric acid, boron trifluoride, arsenic, cadmium, tellurium, and selenium compounds, which can cause health problems. Also, there is much more construction work needed for solar installations than for nuclear; construction is one of the most dangerous industries from the standpoint of accidents to workers.

      If photovoltaic panels on houses become widespread, how many people would be killed and injured in cleaning or replacing solar panels on roofs, or in clearing them of snow? What about the dangers in repairing the complex electric conversion systems? Over a thousand Americans now die each year from electrocution, and the power-conditioning equipment needed for a solar electricity installation would represent a major increase in this risk. Back-up systems, most especially diesel engines in the home, have serious health problems. Diesel exhausts include some of the most potent carcinogens known, and they contribute to most of the other air pollution problems discussed in connection with coal burning in Chapter 3.

      Large solar plants also create environmental and ecological problems. What happens to the land and animals that live on it when a 5-mile diameter area is covered with solar cells or mirrors? Desert areas, which are most attractive for solar installations, are especially fragile in this regard.


      http://www.phyast.pitt.edu/~blc/book/chapter12.htm l
      Deaths Caused
      Source First 500 years Eventually
      Nuclear
      High-level waste 0.0001 0.018
      Radon emissions 0.00 -420
      Routine emissions (Kr,Xe,T,14C) 0.05 0.3
      Low-level waste 0.0001 0.0004
      Coal
      Air pollution 75 75
      Radon emissions 0.11 30
      Chemical carcinogens 0.5 70
      Photovoltaics for solar energy
      Coal for materials 1.5 5
      Cadmium sulfide 0.8 80
    52. Re:Almost nothing by alienw · · Score: 1

      Interference occurs with any two waves, whether they are electromagnetic waves, sound waves, or changes in light intensity. The only thing that is required is that the two signals add linearly (which is clearly the case with light intensities).

    53. Re:Almost nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Interference occurs with any two waves, whether they are electromagnetic waves, sound waves, or changes in light intensity.

      Again it is you who completely misunderstood how interference works.

      Plot a curve of (0.5+0.5*cos(t*100*2pi)) + (0.5+0.5*cos(110*t*2pi)), representing oscillating intensities at 100 and 110 Hz. You will see an oscillating intensity that averages at 1.0, with a frequency of 105 Hz, and a modulation frequency in the modulation amplitude of 10 Hz (yes, that is: modulation in the modulation). If you have an intensity detector (the human eye) that has a bandwidth of 80 Hz, it will average out the oscillations at 105 Hz (they are too fast), regardless of whether those oscillations have an amplitude of 0 or 1.

      Now assume that the above function is not intensity but rather electric or sound-pressure field. Take the square of the above function to represent intensity. Only now you can see it beat, even if you filter out the 105 Hz component.

    54. Re:Almost nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We don't build Chenobryl-style reactors anymore.

      Depends who "We" is. The Chernobyl reactors were terrible Soviet designs. One of my nuclear professors described it as an effort worthy of an undergraduate research project - and it would have failed. Western designs, even from the Cold War period, are much, much safer. And, there still are Chernobyl-style reactors in use in the former Soviet Union.

      Three Mile Island was about as bad as things could get with our reactors

      If you read the official report on TMI, the serious problems of TMI were caused by operator error.

    55. Re:Almost nothing by innocent_white_lamb · · Score: 1

      I just got an energy saving dishwasher, too.

      The best energy-saving (and water-saving) dishwasher is washing your dishes by hand with a good dish detergent like Sunlight. Done properly, your dishes will come out cleaner too.

      --
      If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
    56. Re:Almost nothing by cmowire · · Score: 1

      Indeed.

      The point is, however, that the core melted down at TMI. It melted down, but there was no "China syndrome", no melting-through-the-containment-vessel, no melts-till-it-hits-groundwater-and-explodes, nothing like that. It shows that the level of over-engineering we use in our power plants results in safe power plants. TMI was the worst case scenerio.

      But yeah.... they'd thought of everything else. It's only natural that the only thing that could go wrong and cause a meltdown is operator error. :)

    57. Re:Almost nothing by pclminion · · Score: 1
      I understand the argument, but it depends how far you're willing to take it. You could also wash your clothes by hand, if you really wanted to save resources.

      I prefer to spread my resource optimization across many different areas so that I can splurge on a few things (like a dishwasher) which, although not as efficient as it could be, makes my evenings quite a bit easier.

      To put it another way, I feel less guilty about indulging in a bit of luxury because I try to do so much in other ways.

    58. Re:Almost nothing by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      This article has some rather strange arguments.

      For one thing, who puts diesel generators in their home as a backup for solar? Most people just use the regular electric utility. There's no good reason to have a diesel backup, except for the rare times the electric utility fails, and even then only if you really need backup power at those times. And then, you put the thing outside, so you don't breathe the exhaust.

      Then the article talks about putting solar panels on roofs, and large standalone solar plants; the two are different things, and aren't comparable. Solar panels on roofs don't create any ecological problems; the building was already there, so putting some solar panels on top isn't doing any further damage to the ecology. But why are they complaining about large solar plants, but then complaining that solar is more dangerous than nuclear? So silicon production involves nasty chemicals. Nuclear power plants have lots of radiation, and toxic materials like uranium and plutonium. I don't see how one is any worse, except that nuclear generally has higher power density.

      And the whole thing about construction accidents is ridiculous. Construction workers are far more likely to die just driving to the construction site than walking around on a roof. This kind of risk doesn't seem to deter roofers and other people who work in construction.

      Basically, this article seems to be a very biased, scaremongering piece against solar power, for no good reasons. Solar probably isn't the greatest choice for large-scale, centralized power production, but it's great for decentralized deployment on existing buildings.

    59. Re:Almost nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Also, there is much more construction work needed for solar installations than for nuclear; construction is one of the most dangerous industries from the standpoint of accidents to workers.

      Yeah its a lot safer to have those workers sitting at home unemployeed.

  16. I live walking distance from work. by aoteoroa · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Some people might argue that 20 minutes is too far to walk when I can drive it in 5 and parking is free at my office.

    But the way I see it is that programming does not provide my body with the excercise it needs. Fresh air and a brisk walk in the morning helps wake me up.

    I also walk to pick up small things like milk, bread, or a bottle of wine.

    1. Re:I live walking distance from work. by Leroy_Brown242 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I go to the gym 3 days a week, before work.

      I laugh at my cow-workers who complain about not sleeping well, and being tired when they get into work in the morning.

      By the time they are bitching, I've been up for hours and I'm ready to work.

    2. Re:I live walking distance from work. by 15973 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Walking to work also helps clear your head first thing in the morning (you'd be surprised how much it helps...). And if you're just outside walking distance, it'd still save you money in the long run to spend $500 on a bike and ride to work.

    3. Re:I live walking distance from work. by mutterc · · Score: 2, Funny

      Cue the cartoon where people are taking the elevator down from the office, driving to the gym, taking the elevator up there, only to get on the Stairmaster.

    4. Re:I live walking distance from work. by tverbeek · · Score: 1

      One of the things I dislike about winter is that the inadequately plowed roads make it impractical to ride my bike to work, and the frequently unshoveled sidewalks make the 2-mile walk unpleasant, so I have to ride the bus. Still less polluting and more cost-effective than driving and parking a car downtown, though.

      --
      http://alternatives.rzero.com/
    5. Re:I live walking distance from work. by Poeir · · Score: 1
      --
      Sigs are like bumper stickers.
  17. I'm trying my best ... by Pegasus · · Score: 1

    ... to find a dealer that would sell me a 35w version of mobile athlon64 and a desktop motherboard that would work with it. Kinda difficult around here.

    Next, I have no air conditioning. I live in the nice cool basement in the summer and one of the two heated rooms of the house in the winter. Good windows (with vacuum inbetween two glass panels) also reduce your heating bill tremendously. Flourescent lights are double edged sword - just ask anyone in the power distribution business. They tend to shift phase and change the shape of the current - you can check that with osciloscope.

    1. Re:I'm trying my best ... by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1
      I'm trying my best to find a dealer that would sell me a 35w version of mobile athlon64 and a desktop motherboard that would work with it. Kinda difficult around here.

      I hear tell that people will sell you stuff over that new-fangled Internet thing if you know who to ask...

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
  18. Using a clothes line... by n1ywb · · Score: 3, Interesting
    instead of a clothes dryer.

    Oh yeah and shooting assholes who enforce CC&Rs or other restrictions on clothes lines.

    --
    -73, de n1ywb
    www.n1ywb.com
    1. Re:Using a clothes line... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      Actually, the increase in your property value due to CC&Rs far outweighs the savings of a clothes line. Think about this when you try to sell your house when the neighbors three cars (two on blocks) and RV are parked in the street and his front yard. Oh, and throw a steak to their Rottweiler to keep it from barking when the realtor sets up an open house.

    2. Re:Using a clothes line... by n1ywb · · Score: 3, Funny

      I don't know how you got from clothesline to cheap white trash, but I think it involves being an assclown.

      --
      -73, de n1ywb
      www.n1ywb.com
    3. Re:Using a clothes line... by mutterc · · Score: 1
      We went a similar route in the last couple of months. Looking to save on the electricity bill. We already have CF bulbs where appropriate, keep lights off, programmable thermostat, etc.

      Noting that the two big energy "hogs" are the hot water heater and the dryer, decided to try drying clothes on a rack. Now, some fraction of the laundry gets laid out to dry (with a quick air-tumble afterwards to shake out stiffness).

      (An outside clothesline would be impractial because:

      • Property is covered with trees, bringing sap drippings, animal droppings, etc. into consideration.
      • We're both allergics - having "clean" clothes covered in pollen might be suboptimal. )
      Not sure yet how much this is saving; it's been frelling cold here (relative to the usual winters) so electric bills are high depite keeping the temperature lower.
    4. Re:Using a clothes line... by tardigrades · · Score: 1

      Actually clothes lines are great. If you want nice fresh clothes try it. None of frabic softener for me. The only problem is here in seattle it can be done for about 4 months of the year before it turns into a rinse line.

      --
      really bored? My blog
    5. Re:Using a clothes line... by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Here in Phoenix, I set my dryer's heat setting to low or just air fluff in the summer. The dryer's in the garage, so in the summer it gets over 110 in there during the day, and the air has extremely low humidity, so there really isn't any point in heating it much further. My electricity bills seem to stay fairly reasonable.

  19. To be perfectly honest.. by rogabean · · Score: 1

    I've never given it a thought.

    I have 4 computers that run constantly... I tend to leave the lights on all day...

    My air conditioning stays at 65 (I like it cold)

    and I pay my bill when it arrives.

    does it make me a bad person? Not really, just lazy.

    --
    "why don't you just slip into something more comfortable...like a coma!"
    1. Re:To be perfectly honest.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.' - Edmund Burke (?)

    2. Re:To be perfectly honest.. by Leroy_Brown242 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I don't think you're a bad person for leaving using all that electricity.

      I think you're a bad person for not thinking there is anything wrong with it.

    3. Re:To be perfectly honest.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice troll, power company employee.

    4. Re:To be perfectly honest.. by n1ywb · · Score: 1
      It means that either electricity is too cheap or you have too much money. Why not give me some?

      BTW the cops like to execute search warrants on people that use lots of electricity, apperantly it's probable cause for suspicion someone is growing pot.

      --
      -73, de n1ywb
      www.n1ywb.com
    5. Re:To be perfectly honest.. by rogabean · · Score: 1

      Not a troll from the power company... LOL

      hmm growing pot you say? I saw my friend's power bill once.. was twice mine... I shrugged it off cuz he's got 3 times as many computers running... but maybe...

      seriously... I keep saying I should conserve power... I just don't.

      --
      "why don't you just slip into something more comfortable...like a coma!"
  20. Got a mac mini! by Drakker · · Score: 2, Informative

    Thanks to the mac mini, my pc can stay off pretty much all the time, and the power consumption of the mac mini is like 1/20 of what my pc with tons of hard disks and pretty demanding video card needed. :) (9.5w vs over 190w for my pc...) Having an LCD monitor will also lower the bill as it use 1/3 of the power of an equivalent CRT. Not to mention all the time saved since I dont have anything to do with OSX compared to linux constant need of time consuming administration.

    Also, I use the subway / bus, much cheaper than owning a car, and I actualy get to work faster with the subway than in a car waiting in line in a traffic jam. I use my bike during the summer.

    1. Re:Got a mac mini! by arcanis · · Score: 1

      How did you arrive at a consumption figure of 9.5W for the Mac Mini? The tech specs declare it to have a max. continuous operating power of 85W. Is yours using almost a tenth of that in average consumption? Serious question. Maybe you ran an ammeter on the AC line or something?

    2. Re:Got a mac mini! by Drakker · · Score: 2, Informative

      http://www6.tomshardware.com/howto/20050216/apple- mac-mini-computer-06.html

      They quote 20w when playing back DVDs. I don't remember which article (from a mac website) was quoting 9.5w when doing basic work (like email, web browsing, word processing, etc, what I tend to do most of the time). So here are the numbers. :)

    3. Re:Got a mac mini! by Drakker · · Score: 1

      Sorry, my mistake, it's actualy 20w when doing office work, 28w or something while playing DVD, and 9.5w when doing absolutely nothing for hours.

  21. Thermostats by SunFan · · Score: 2, Interesting


    Probably the biggest thing is to turn down thermostats in winter and up in summer. Electricity/Heating Fuel are the biggest bills aside from debt payments, it appears.

    --
    -- Microsoft is the most expensive commodity operating system and office suite vendor in the marketplace.
    1. Re:Thermostats by littlerubberfeet · · Score: 1

      We don't even turn the heat on in the winter, we just turn the AC off and open the door to the server room and put a fan there...

      --
      Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
    2. Re:Thermostats by Suidae · · Score: 1

      You know what would be great? If designers of houses would think about airflow. I'd love to use outside air too heat/cool/ventilate my house when its appropriate, but to do so I have to put electric fans all over to get any reasonable airflow. Then I can't hear anything and I'm tripping over fans in doorways, and constantly concerned that a kid will stick a finger or something in the fans. Then, in the evening when its dropping down to 40 and I'm ready to close up the house, I have go go around and close a bunch of windows and put a way fans. What a huge pain in the ass (well, in the scale of 'climate controlling my house' its a huge pain, but I'll wager its better than, say, needing a colostomy bag).

      I'll have to see if I can rig up a solution to this problem this summer. I'm stuck with the crappy windows, but I can see some possible X10 and weather station based solutions to the fans...

  22. New Technology by nstrupp · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I don't mean computerize your home.

    I'm betting most people live in older dwellings. My house was built in the 50's when no one cared about energy. This will only apply to people that own homes, but here goes.

    Windows:
    I've replaced my windows. It was a large expense ($10,000+) and I won't get my money back in increased home value or energy savings for as long as I live here, but I will save energy in two ways. First, and most obvious, I have more energy efficient windows. The original windows were single pane and many were large fixed pane windows. The new windows are double-pane and insulated (low-e and all that) and I replaced fixed pane with opening windows. Now I can get a nice breeze through the house so I don't have to switch from heater in the morning to A/C in the day.

    Insulation:
    My home has vaulted ceilings with exposed beams. There is some old hard fiberglass type insulation there that's maybe 4 inches thick. With a large unshaded southern exposure, I get a lot of heat pouring down. This is great in the winter, but miserable and costly in the summer. I'm putting insulation between the exposed beams with drywall covering. Not only do I get better insulation, but I've now given the house a more modern look.

    Fans:
    I've got a ceiling fan in almost every room. It works great for pushing warm air out of hot rooms and into cold ones in the winter or drawing cooler outside air in through windows in the summer. I'm not sure about the efficiency or energy savings here, but it sure does make a room more comfortable.

    Most of these items will not return any value to the house, but in the end I'm more comfortable in my home and I'm saving some energy costs.

    1. Re:New Technology by Joey+Vegetables · · Score: 1

      I've replaced my windows. It was a large expense

      Me too. Not only is Linux far less expensive, but it rocks!

    2. Re:New Technology by HeyLaughingBoy · · Score: 3, Interesting
      My house was built in the 50's when no one cared about energy

      My first house was like this. Built in the early 50's, 1,000 sq ft. I added insulation under the attic floorboards, and the house had brand new HVAC system and electronic timer thermostat. With all that, a $200 heating bill in winter was average. I thought that was normal: it gets *cold* in Minnesota.

      Then we moved to a house built in the mid 80's. Twice the sq. footage, plenty of big windows, old HVAC... and the highest heating bill in 2 years is $80! In summer, the cost of A/C is barely noticeable. It's insane how much difference insulation everywhere and good sealing makes.

      Of course I do have an 18 mpg SUV to make up for it ;-)
  23. Stop using so much water... by phallstrom · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Okay, I know it's not electricity exactly, but...

    - install low flow toilets or those kits that limit the amount of water per toilet flush.

    - consider a front load washing machine.

    - and stop washing your car every freaking weekend for crying out loud! Especially those of you who live in Seattle. It rains every couple of days anyway!!!! Same goes for your lawns. Brown is okay. It will grow back.

    1. Re:Stop using so much water... by Mr.Phil · · Score: 1

      First thing I thought about when I saw this Conservation item was to "take showers with your significant other." My wife and I do most every morning, and on the weekdays, we do save time.

      On the weekends however......

    2. Re:Stop using so much water... by Country_hacker · · Score: 1

      - install low flow toilets or those kits that limit the amount of water per toilet flush.
      Tip for those who don't want to pay for a 'kit': Fill a gallon milk jug with water and put it in the toilet tank, the gallon of space (Yes, I know, not an appropriate unit of measure. Sue me.) it takes up reduces the amount of water flushed by (guess what) a gallon.

      --
      Never give any object more potential energy than you want it to have.
    3. Re:Stop using so much water... by pclminion · · Score: 1

      A gallon is a unit of volume. It's an entirely appropriate unit of measure, especially in this instance!

    4. Re:Stop using so much water... by BlueFashoo · · Score: 1

      "- install ... those kits that limit the amount of water per toilet flush."

      You mean, ... a brick?!? Don't bother purchasing some expensive kit. Walk outside, find some suitable heavy object, like a rock, and gently install it in the tank of the toilet. Or, if your allergic to sunlight, get an empty mountain dew bottle, fill it with dihydrogen monoxide, and gently install it in the tank of the toilet. If you need some DHMO, shoot me an email and I will sell you some for the low price of $19.95/ gallon plus shipping and handling.

      The toilets reservoir is full when a float reaches a predetermined height and shuts off the flow of water into the reservoir. Next time you take a shit, take the lid off of the tank and see.

      As for the brown lawns, either replace them with cacti and succulents (depending on location) or spray paint it green. A green lawn started off as status symbol, because they are incredibly expensive in time and other resources to maintain. Admittedly spray painting the lawn is not the most environmentally friendly thing to do, but it will be green and you will save water.

      --
      Nice Marmot
    5. Re:Stop using so much water... by Country_hacker · · Score: 1

      Bah, sorry, brain fart. Goes to show you shouldn't get defensive until someone gives you a reason. :-)

      --
      Never give any object more potential energy than you want it to have.
    6. Re:Stop using so much water... by pclminion · · Score: 1

      Wow, I think that's the first time I've ever seen somebody apologize for being correct! :-)

    7. Re:Stop using so much water... by Tumbleweed · · Score: 1

      I don't think that would lead to much saving of _time_; I think that would make my shower take a lot longer, in fact, thus negating any water savings. Not that that's a bad thing, mind.

    8. Re:Stop using so much water... by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 2, Interesting
      consider a front load washing machine.

      Dang! I can't believe I forgot to mention that earlier. I have a Kenmore HE3 washer/dryer set and they rock like no appliances I've ever bought. First, it barely sips water - the advertising is completely accurate. Second, the spin cycle is awesome. The radial velocity of the edge of the barrel on the "high" setting is something like 170 miles per hour. Third, my wife, three small children, and I use almost exactly one 5-gallon tub of soap every six months. At $10 per tub (we buy them once a year when you can get them 2/$20), that's about $1.70 per month in consumables. Fourth, they're huge. A big washer means fewer loads of laundry, which means that you don't have to spend a whole weekend washing your stuff. Finally, this giant graphite washer and dryer pair looks like it came straight out of Darth Vader's laundry room. It frightens small children and impresses the heck out of other geeks.

      They're still really expensive, but if you can at all afford them, you have to get these.

      install low flow toilets or those kits that limit the amount of water per toilet flush.

      Yeah, because 4 1.5 gallon flushes to get rid of Taco Bell is much more efficient than 1 2.5 gallon flush. I'll stick with the "stand up first or take your chances" model I currently have, thanks.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    9. Re:Stop using so much water... by qwijibo · · Score: 1

      It does save water. The important trick is that you need to get dirty first, which can be done outside the shower.

    10. Re:Stop using so much water... by barzok · · Score: 1

      My "low flow" toilet requires 2 flushes (or more) 80% of the time it's used for anything but liquid waste.

      Low flow is fine for #1, but for #2, there's no substitute for pure power.

    11. Re:Stop using so much water... by Suidae · · Score: 1

      This is actually a common complaint with low flow toilets. I suspect it is most common with people who wait 2 or 3 days between solid waste eliminations. When its come up (not that often), I've never met anyone who eliminates daily who has this problem with low-flow toilets.

    12. Re:Stop using so much water... by barzok · · Score: 1

      Well, now you have.

    13. Re:Stop using so much water... by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      I have a Kenmore HE3 washer/dryer set and they rock like no appliances I've ever bought. First, it barely sips water - the advertising is completely accurate.

      I have the front-loading Maytag Neptune, and it's similarly great, except it isn't graphite-colored unfortunately. However, how do you know that it sips water? Did you measure it or something?

      Yeah, because 4 1.5 gallon flushes to get rid of Taco Bell is much more efficient than 1 2.5 gallon flush. I'll stick with the "stand up first or take your chances" model I currently have, thanks.

      This is bad reasoning. You may have had bad experiences with cheap 1.5g toilets. I've had the older 3.5g toilets clog up on me, but I don't blame them all for that.

      Toilets are just like anything else: you get what you pay for. Buy a cheap, crappy one, and it'll clog a lot. (This is probably what most builders use, and is probably why many people have a bad perception of these toilets.) Buy a nice, well-engineered one (which will probably cost more), and you won't have much of a problem with that. Look for the higher-end models that have glazed passageways that are wider than normal.

      When the govt passed legislation requiring toilets to take only 1.5gpf, they should have also required a minimum level of acceptable flushing performance.

    14. Re:Stop using so much water... by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      You need a new toilet. The problem with yours isn't that it's "low flow", it's that it's cheap and poorly designed. The jerk who built your house probably picked it because it was the cheapest one he could find.

      Replace it with a high-end model and you shouldn't have such problems. Look for a wide, glazed passageway.

  24. If you don't mind running the chance of getting by antifoidulus · · Score: 1

    stabbed, hitchiking is great way to...

    No, I don't want to see that

    save on fuel and potentially meet...

    I don't think you should be doing that while driving

    sorry, where was I, oh yeah, meet interesting people who will even let you use their cell phone to connect to the .....

    OH GOD, WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO MY HAND?!?!

    internet while driving.....is there a scream tag on /.?

  25. Simple.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't let my Hummer sit idling in the driveway just to hear it run, as often as I used to. :)

  26. How to save gas and increase time by BlueFashoo · · Score: 2, Funny

    Lets face it. A large chunk of the gas used in this country is used in ever increasing commutes to work. More and more people are spending increasing amounts of time on the road, often at low or single digit speeds. Fear not though, for there is a solution. A solution that not only will help you save money on fuel expenditures, but reduce congestion on the freeways of America, and increase the amount of liesure time for all participants. This solution is so elegant, that it can be summed up in three measly little words.

    GET LAID OFF!

    Getting laid off could be the best thing that ever happened to you and the environment. You will reduce that amount of pollution you produce. You will have a steady income. Your job stress will disappear. You will have no commute. And best of all, you will have the free time to complete all those F/OSS projects you've been meaning to complete.

    That's right folks! Get laid off today and you can reap all these benefits, save energy, and get your money back from the government. So what are you waiting for, go get laid off today!

    --
    Nice Marmot
    1. Re:How to save gas and increase time by mutterc · · Score: 1
      Cool! I can use two depressive influences to cancel one another out with this insight:

      Worldwide economic collapse is probably going to solve many energy-capacity / environmental problems.

      No need to worry about global warming once we're all living like medieval peasants.

    2. Re:How to save gas and increase time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sadly, this is very true. When Russia's economy tanked after their botched transition to a free market economy, they suddenly were polluting less, using less energy, and a host of other environmentally friendly "benefits".

      But when they turned all that spare electricity towards manufacturing aluminum (a very energy-intense process), we in the U.S. fought back by creating a worldwide aluminum cartel. But I digress.

  27. We live in a climate-appropriate house. by mellon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Not an easy thing to do, and not everyone can do it, but one thing that really surprises me about Tucson, and this is true for many cities, I think, is how incredibly inappropriate the building materials are that people use. Most of the houses in Tucson are made of wood, with minimal insulation and huge black roofs to collect maximal solar energy during the long summers. Many houses are cooled with swamp coolers, which typically go through 100 gallons of water a day, even though this is a desert climate. Many people have lawns, which of course have to be watered daily throughout most of the year.

    When we moved to Tucson, we knew we weren't going to buy a wood house, because wood is simply a lousy material for this climate. Back in the days before massive cookie-cutter developments, houses in Tucson were made of 12-18" thick adobe or 6-8" burnt adobe/slump block masonry. This material is good for the climate, because it has a lot of thermal mass. This means that if you get the thickness right, the outside temperature at night will be coming through the walls during the day, and the outside temperature during the day will be coming through the walls at night. So if you open the windows at night, and close them during the day, you can be fairly comfortable even in the heat of summer, without using any heating at all, and in the winter you might want to put on a sweater, but you'll basically be warm enough, again without any heating.

    However, it turns out that buying a house built this way nowadays is quite expensive, unless you buy an older house, and older houses have the problem that most of them have wood floors, meaning that you're very vulnerable to termites.

    We were very fortunate to find a builder who is working on renewable-energy housing right in downtown Tucson - our house is made of concrete masonry, but is insulated on the outside, so rather than depending on the diurnal cycle, it is isolated from the outside temperature swings. The thermal mass of the all-masonry construction and the 10" thick concrete floor mean that once you get it to a certain temperature, it tends to want to stay there. So it's quite cheap to keep cool, even in the dead of summer.

    On top of this, there's a solar hot water heater and 1500WDC solar panel on the roof, so that although we still draw energy from the grid, we draw a lot less of it, and our air conditioning can run mostly off the solar panel during the day, when energy is in most demand. To back up the solar hot water heater we have an electric instant-hot-water heater from Seisco that works really well - the hot water out of the tap has a really consistent temperature with no pulsing.

    That's really our big way of saving energy. We'd like to have a hybrid car, because unfortunately we aren't quite able to go cold turkey on automotive transportation, but for now we're making do with our Honda Civic, which gets pretty good milage.

    As for computers, unfortunately I think the best solution is to always buy newer ones, but it costs energy to make them, so this isn't perfect. Newer computers do seem to use less energy as long as you're not pushing them to extreme clock speeds. Probably using just a laptop would help, but for work it's really handy to have a faster disk and processor.

    1. Re:We live in a climate-appropriate house. by GeorgeH · · Score: 1
      As for computers, unfortunately I think the best solution is to always buy newer ones, but it costs energy to make them, so this isn't perfect. Newer computers do seem to use less energy as long as you're not pushing them to extreme clock speeds.
      According to a power supply wattage calculator older computers use less energy than newer ones. A Pentium 3 can use as little as 21 watts, a Pentium 4 can use as much as 100 watts.
      --
      Why can't I moderate something "Wrong" or at least "Grossly Misinformed"?
    2. Re:We live in a climate-appropriate house. by Photar · · Score: 2, Informative

      Daily watering is bad, the best way to water your yard is to give it a deep soaking ever week or two. Watering daily stunts the root system of the grass and propetuates the dependance of daily watering.

      --
      He who knows not and knows he knows not is a wise man. He who knows not and knows not he knows not is a fool.
    3. Re:We live in a climate-appropriate house. by mellon · · Score: 1

      I think it depends on what you're buying. For example, I can buy a new laptop computer that's as fast and powerful as my old desktop computer, and that definitely draws less power. Or I can buy a whizzy new desktop computer that draws more power than the old one.

      Just as an example of this, consider a Soekris 486 box with a 2.5" 7200 RPM drive. My main server for fugue.com used to be a 486 that ran slower than the Soekris 486, had a huge power supply, and drew probably at least one order of magnitude more power.

      I am hoping that as the mad dash to find the tail end of Moore's law starts to chill out, it'll be more possible to purchase competent but not blazingly-fast machines that do the job and don't draw a lot of juice. I think the boxes Soekris makes are a good example of this, and I've seen other examples as well.

      Right now I'm in the early phase of experimenting with using a powerbook with a broken screen as a server; it'll be interesting to see how that plays out.

    4. Re:We live in a climate-appropriate house. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is this really possible in Tuscon, AZ? I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter how much you water on one day, if you wait two weeks between watering your grass will be dead, especially in August.

    5. Re:We live in a climate-appropriate house. by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      What's important isn't peak power usage, but MIPS/watt and standby/idle power consumption. The Pentium III may use much less power at 100% load, but the P4 will get a lot more work done.

      Unless you're keeping your systems at 100% load all the time, look instead at the idle power consumption, because this shows how much power you'll consume most of the time, when the CPU isn't doing much. The newest AMD processors seem to do extremely well here.

  28. mnb Re:New Technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Insulation:
    My home has vaulted ceilings with exposed beams. There is some old hard fiberglass type insulation there that's maybe 4 inches thick. With a large unshaded southern exposure, I get a lot of heat pouring down. This is great in the winter, but miserable and costly in the summer. I'm putting insulation between the exposed beams with drywall covering. Not only do I get better insulation, but I've now given the house a more modern look.


    Do that and you will have blocked the cooling and ventilation to the underside of your roof.

    Hello new roof every 5 years!

    But seriously - you don't know what you are doing. All you will acomplish is cooked shingles and rotted beams.

    1. Re:mnb Re:New Technology by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 1

      I don't think it is that simple.

      http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/en/burema/gesein/abhose /abhose_ce13.cfm

      Horrible quote, reliable source:

      "If you have properly sealed the attic you should not need more attic ventilation. Attic ventilation is overrated. In winter, the cold outside air cannot hold much humidity or carry moisture away from the attic. In summer, attic temperatures are more affected by the sun and shingle colour than by the amount of ventilation."

      They do add: "Building codes require attic ventilation. Ventilation may make a difference in ..."

    2. Re:mnb Re:New Technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I read your link.
      Interesting.
      I can't provide any links to counter your argument, all I can say is real world experience often shows otherwise.
      I see rotted roof joists all the time when inexperienced home owners apply insulation with moisture barrier the wrong way.

      On a second, and lesser note, drywall with an oil based primer or top coat works very well as a moisture barrier.

  29. Volkswagen TDI by Gulthek · · Score: 1

    My wife and I drive a Jetta Wagon with the TDI (diesel) engine. We do our best to drive it smoothly with no hard acceleration or braking and are averaging 46 mpg. There are a few biodiesel stations in our area (NC Triangle) that offer 80/20 fuel. Here is a website with details on the benefits of biodiesel and the location of pumps in the triangle.

    Other than that we: keep the a/c high and the heat low, use energystar ratings as one of our primary shopping factors, and generally don't use more energy than we need.

  30. The Canadian one tonne challenge by Fr05t · · Score: 1

    link

    It's focused on gas emissions, but most of the suggestions are about reducting the energy we use. There is a nice GHG calculator to get an idea were you are starting from.

  31. What high energy prices? by 0x69 · · Score: 2, Informative

    It's an easy 2-mile walk from home to where I work. I drive a small diesel car anyway.

    The landlord pays the heat & A/C for my modest 1-bedroom apartment...but with few exterior walls & appropriate clothing, my thermostat is almost always set to "OFF".

    I turn off unneeded lights, shut the 'fridge door, don't run a home server farm, etc. - my electric bill is usually about $15 per month.

    I don't know if a 400% jump in energy prices would bother me that much. If the rest of America lived like I do, our country would probably have lots of surplus oil, natural gas, etc. to export.

    --
    It's easy to make up & spread cool- and credible-sounding stuff. Finding & checking hard facts is hard work.
    1. Re:What high energy prices? by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1
      The landlord pays the heat & A/C for my modest 1-bedroom apartment.

      Don't they teach economics in high school anymore? No, 0x69, you pay all of your utilities - your landlord just does you the "favor" of lumping your bills in with everyone else's, dividing by the number of renters, and incorporating that into your rent.

      See that jackass across the hall who leaves his windows open because the A/C and heat is "free"? Guess what: you are paying his bills, while he gets a discount because you're using less than your "quota". You're a heckuva guy, because you're probably getting ripped off without even realizing it.

      I don't know if a 400% jump in energy prices would bother me that much.

      ...until your lease expires and your new one is $100 a month higher.

      If the rest of America lived like I do, our country would probably have lots of surplus oil, natural gas, etc. to export.

      Even more important, if the rest of your neighbors lived like you do, your rent would go down, or at least wouldn't go up as much at renewal time. That is, if you have a nice landlord. Since you opted to bundle your A/C and heating bill into your rent, you'll never know.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    2. Re:What high energy prices? by fred+fleenblat · · Score: 1

      Calm down.

      In a multi-story apartment building, the heat or a/c given to one tenant diffuses to neighboring apartments. It's typical to have three walls, the floor and ceiling connected to other apartments, and only one wall with doors and windows facing the outside world. 5/6 of your surface area is shared, so it makes sense to regulate heat loss/gain in the commons.

      His turning off the thermostat doesn't undo the heat or a/c he gets from neighbors; he's benefitting from their thermostat settings. If the place were perfectly insulated, he'd have to give up and turn his on anyway. If everyone turned off their thermostats, within a day the place would be unliveable. Check out a commercial building that turns its HVAC off on weekends. By mid-sunday it's stuffy and either freezing cold or unbearably hot.

    3. Re:What high energy prices? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      shut the 'fridge door

      Goddamn, why didn't I think of that?

      Sure, it's more convenient to waltz into the kitchen and grab a beer without having to open and close the door, but I suppose it might waste energy leaving it open all the time.

    4. Re:What high energy prices? by 0x69 · · Score: 1

      What Fred said.

      (With only 1 outside wall with few windows, the supposed jerk's ability to waste energy is limited anyway.)

      A commercial landlord who's "paying the heat & A/C" on 100+ units has ample incentive, opportunity, & economies of scale to upgrade the energy efficiency. We're not talking about busy homeowners who don't understand cashflow strategy.

      This rental market is neither tight nor immobile - raising the rent will raise the vacancy rate.

      If energy prices rise enough to force $100 more per month onto my apartment rent, then the fools in those miles of McMansion sprawl will be seeing $1000+ monthly utility bills. It seems safer to be renting when the real estate market bubble pops.

      --
      It's easy to make up & spread cool- and credible-sounding stuff. Finding & checking hard facts is hard work.
    5. Re:What high energy prices? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      5/6 of your surface area is shared

      One should note that it's effectively even more than that. The floor and ceiling surfaces are much larger than each wall (unless you have a very small apartment), plus the temperature gradient from floor to ceiling would tend to push heated or cooled air up (or down) against the larger surface.

  32. Check out Amory Lovins for Ideas by t482 · · Score: 1

    His non profit site has lots of information: Rocky Mountain Institute. I would also search around the web for webcasts or interviews with him.

  33. slashdot in lynx by wdr1 · · Score: 4, Funny

    I read Slashdot in lynx. Does that count?

    -Bill

    --
    SlashSig Karma: Excellent (mostly affected by moderatio
    1. Re:slashdot in lynx by anynameleft · · Score: 1

      Mostly when I read Slashdot
      in Li^Hynx, I get the
      impression that it doesn't
      save me any energy...

    2. Re:slashdot in lynx by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      only if lynx is the fanciest browser your system can support (IE a 386, but even then you could run windows 95 with (buggy, insecure) IE 5)

    3. Re:slashdot in lynx by cerberusss · · Score: 1
      I read Slashdot in lynx. Does that count?

      It doesn't count here, but it does in the other thread about masochism. :)

      --
      8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
  34. Battle of the lights by Leroy_Brown242 · · Score: 1

    My roomate and I have a long standing battle over control of the lights in our apartment.

    he wants them all on, I don't.

    I have sensative eyes, and can see just fine by starlight, and I don't see the need to waste the electricity on lights when I'm not in the room.

    He wants the lights to be on when he enters the room. He doesn't like entering a dark room.

    So, our lights go on and off a lot. :)

    1. Re:Battle of the lights by fred+fleenblat · · Score: 1

      Get the motion sensor replacement switches. Fit right in to most switchboxes. www.smarthome.com has 'em.

      Or, ask your roommate to eat more carrots.

  35. Or those who live in Los Angeles by sideshow · · Score: 1
    and stop washing your car every freaking weekend for crying out loud! Especially those of you who live in Seattle.

    Since it's rained a whole bunch more in LA then in Seattle this year, you have to use LA as your "city where it rains a whole shit load".

    --

    Hollow words will burn and hollow men will burn.

  36. I chose to ... by Muad'Dave · · Score: 2, Informative

    ... replace my ancient oil-fired furnace with a much more efficient one (still oil-fired). I went from a 1.0 gph nozzle to a 0.7 gph nozzle, and the furnace still runs less than before.

    I also consolidated many of the 6 servers I had running on old hardware onto 1 or 2 honkin' servers. The power required went down by a 1.25 kW. Over a month, that was 915 kW-hr. At 8 cents/kW-hr, that's $75/month right there.

    --
    Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
  37. Energy is always conserved by waynegoode · · Score: 3, Funny
    I don't have to do anything. Don't you remember your physics?

    Energy is always conserved, without a bit of help from anyone.

    Now if we could only find a way to conserve entrophy.

  38. The list.....of how by chivo243 · · Score: 1

    1. no car! Bike or Pub Trans...(borrow a car in dire need only!) 2. clock thermostat for when I am at work AND asleep 3. turn off lights when you leave a room, that is why there is a switch, Hello Edison? 4. RECYCLE, it may not save you energy directly, but will save it in the long run. On that last note, what is to be done with things like, bic pens when they die, bic razors, bic lighters(nothing against bic, just too lazy to write or spell disposable many times) too bad bic doesn't make toothbrushes, they could make all the things I wonder where and how to recycle. There are probably more, but it is friday evening here, and.... beer calls! in bottles that return for deposit! Cheers!

    --
    Sig Hansen?
  39. I Live Downtown by Flinx_ca · · Score: 1

    (Downtown Toronto if you want to know) The closest grocery stores are 5, 7 and 15 minutes away. There are two 24 hour transit lines within a 5 minute walk and 2 others which operate 06:00-01:20. My work is a quiet 20-40 minute transit ride away. I do not own a car. I spent $5000 on a high efficiency furnace which cut my gas bill by 60% and my electricity bill by 30% (with 8 months of cold weather it pays off very quickly!). I keep my house at 19C/66F. Also note, raising and lowering your house temperature actually uses more energy than keeping it at a constant temperature. I turn off the lights, if no one is in the room the lights are off.

    1. Re:I Live Downtown by bluGill · · Score: 1

      Also note, raising and lowering your house temperature actually uses more energy than keeping it at a constant temperature.

      Myth. Unless you are the rare type that puts his thermostat on the low setting all the time compared to raising and lowering it to fit what you like. If you are like most people and you would leave it on the high setting all the time you use less power by turning it down.

      Simple thermodynamics. The greater the heat difference, the faster the heat transfer. Your house only needs to be heated to make up for the loss from heat transfer.

  40. Wear warmer clothing-Electric underoos. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Try wearing long johns to bed, and using electric blankets instead of turning up the thermostat.

  41. Lots of ways by linuxwrangler · · Score: 3, Informative

    1) Replaced all my lights with flourescent.

    2) Insulated (my 1940s era house had no insulation and now has it in the ceiling and walls).

    3) Replaced my 1960s aluminum sliders with Pella double-pane argon filled low-e-coated double-gasketed windows.

    4) Replaced my water-heater with a Noritz on-demand model.

    5) Ride my bike to work about when practical (about 50% of the days annually).

    6) Keep my car in good repair and drive it gently. Not only directly saves fuel but also the components, all of which require energy to manufacture. For example, I've only replaced the front brake pads once, at 140,000+ miles.

    7) Replaced my 20 year old fridge with a new energy-star model.

    8) Got rid of a second freezer.

    9) Replaced top-load washer with energy-star front-loader with high-speed spin.

    10) Replaced electric dryer with natural-gas dryer.

    11) DISCONNEDTED IDLE EQUIPMENT!! I got an energy meter as a present and in true geek fashion started measuring the usage of everything in the house. It wasn't too hard to kill about 100 watts of 24/7 energy use. Some of the 24/7 power-eaters (these are all idle power in the "off" state):
    Subwoofer: 15 watts
    Livingroom stereo: 18 watts
    TV: 8 watts
    2 VCRs: 12 watts
    UPS: 20+ watts
    etc.

    But does this make sense? Certainly not from an economic standpoint. I don't really get cold or spend much time at home during the week so my total energy bill before I got married was generally around $50/month. Even if I could reduce it to $0 I couldn't justify many of the purchases. Now that I have a wife and daughter (with home-washed diapers) at home the equation has shifted but energy savings still don't justify the purchases - they are mostly side-benefits of other activities:

    1) Replaced all my lights with flourescent.

    OK this one was intended for energy savings and easily justified on a cost/benefit basis. It's also nice to change lights a lot less frequently.

    2) Insulated.

    I live near Berkeley. We don't have/generally need air conditioning. I don't know if the insulation will ever payback the $1800 cost but it makes the house much more comfortable and adds a bit of sound insulation as well. The benefit is most noticable on the few very hot summer days when insulation is the only thing keeping the house from getting into the 90s like it used to.

    3) Replaced the windows.

    We were looking at shutters and blinds (funny thing about getting married - matching sheets are no longer acceptable window "treatments") and decided that we should get rid of the hideous aluminum inserts before spending $$ on window coverings. After much hunting we found we liked the Pella windows the best. At around $26,000 to replace all the windows and buy wood shutters and drapes we will never, ever, recover the cost on energy savings. But like the wall insulation, the double-pane windows make the house much more quiet and pleasant, both thermally and visually.

    4) Replaced my water-heater with a Noritz on-demand model.

    The water heater was getting old and I wanted to replace it before it broke on its own. The on-demand allowed me to put the heater in the crawlspace and free up room in the house. It won't pay for itself in energy savings but at typical construction costs per square foot it has already paid for itself in increased floor space. It is also nice to have unlimited hot water and the flexibility to leave the heater at 106 so all we have to do is jump in the shower and turn on full-hot (no adjusting necessary) but also be able to push the button to temporarily get 160 degree water to run the diapers. Of course I did all the work myself including trenching and running a new 1.25" gas line, running the power and control connections and rerunning the plumbing. The cost equation would be vastly different if I had hired the job out.

    5) Ride my bike to work about when practical (about 50% of the days annually).

    I just like bike riding and get my exerci

    --

    ~~~~~~~
    "You are not remembered for doing what is expected of you." - Atul Chitnis
    1. Re:Lots of ways by alienw · · Score: 1

      Are you sure your little meter is measuring watts and not volt-amps (VA)? Watts indicate the actual energy consumed; volt-amps include the imaginary power. A switched-off TV should not be consuming 8 watts, but it can consume 8 VA and not use any energy simply due to a few capacitors on the input.

      Imaginary power is power consumed by things like capacitors and inductors. It will cause a current to flow, but no power will be dissipated because the current will be out of phase with the voltage.

      An easy way to check this is to plug in a wall-wart into the meter. If the wall-wart is not connected to anything else, the reading should be very close to zero. If it indicates power being consumed, it's probably displaying apparent power instead of true power.

    2. Re:Lots of ways by kent_eh · · Score: 1



      It could draw more than that when it's "off"

      google cache of PDF.

      --

      ---
      "I can't complain, but sometimes still do..." Joe Walsh
    3. Re:Lots of ways by alienw · · Score: 1

      Whoever wrote that article completely misunderstands how transformers and power supplies work. A power cube that is not connected to anything consumes an extremely small amount of energy (mainly the transformer core losses). This should be well under half a watt. It should NOT conume 20-50% of its rated power. The same applies to a power conditioner -- if it's consuming 250W when nothing is plugged in, it will catch on fire if it doesn't have an external fan.

      I think what they did is took a multimeter, and used its AC current feature to measure the line current, and multiplied by 120. A lot of those cheap power meters do the same thing. That is not a proper way to measure power consumption, because it does not take into account the power factor. An inductive or capacitive load will appear to consume a lot of current, but in reality the current will be 90 degrees out of phase with the voltage, so no power will actually be consumed. I think this is what happened, because they measured enormous power consumption for purely inductive loads, like line filters and conditioners (which should not consume any energy at all).

  42. Put in new furnace by fixer007 · · Score: 1

    We got one of the goverment subsidised energy audits. The main this he recommended was putting in a new high-efficiency furnace. Which we did, one of those 93% jobbies. This enabled us to keep the house at a lower temperature while keeping the sasme level of comfort. It's supposed to cut at least 30% off our natural gas bill.

  43. Telecommuting. [nt] by RomulusNR · · Score: 1

    n/t

    --
    Terrorists can attack freedom, but only Congress can destroy it.
  44. Urban living is green living? by Jim+Morash · · Score: 1

    Even though I'd rather live in the country.

    Plus: I walk to work. It takes about 20 minutes. Energy: zero, plus I get part of my daily exercise.

    Plus: I rarely drive. Public transportation is great here (Boston). When I do drive it's usually with friends on a weekend, so the per-person energy cost is lower.

    Plus: As far as embodied energy, shopping etc. go, there's economies of scale: more people are fed, clothed, etc. with less energy spent per unit on transportation to the stores (yet somehow everything costs more in the city, I don't get it).

    Minus: I live in an old, poorly insulated building with an overactive heating system that I can't turn down. Fortunately heat is included in my rent, otherwise I don't know how I'd keep the windows open in January to stay comfortable.

    Minus: My apartment stove is electric (waste of energy), and I have to drive to the laundromat (waste of energy) and use an electric dryer (waste of energy) because there's nowhere to hang up all my clothes on a clothesline...

  45. Telecommute or live near work and urbanize by cthulhuology · · Score: 1

    When I lived in the Bay Area I would spend 40 minutes driving up 880 in traffic burning fuel the whole way. I then moved to NYC, and walked to work. Got rid of the car, stopped burning fuel. Since leaving NYC, I now telecommute and work from home. If I need to go somewhere I ride a bike. By living in a city, I don't need to travel far for all my needs. I can walk to restaurants and the grocery store. (2 blocks to the nearest). Less stress, more exercise, more free time, less energy... and its cheaper...

  46. I moved by Screaming+Lunatic · · Score: 1
    I used to live in a condo out in the suburbs. It was about a 40 minute drive to work. I moved into an apartment that is about a 20 minute walk to work.

    My rent went up by $300, but I spend $300 less a month gassing up the car.

    My electricity and heating bill went from about $75 a month to about $20. Not a big deal, but hey, whatever.

    And the 20 minute walk means I'm like less fat and stuff. And walking is much less stressful than putting up with fucktards in traffic.

    1. Re:I moved by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Huh. Over here in sunny Florida, the fucktards in traffic manage to ruin life for everyone, pedestrian, cyclist or motorist.

  47. Using a(n) [on demand] clothes line... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Noting that the two big energy "hogs" are the hot water heater and the dryer, decided to try drying clothes on a rack."

    The rack is a good idea, and it puts humidity back into the air (an important part of feeling warm). You might want to consider either a programmable timer on the water heater, or an "on demand" water heater.

  48. I use by floydman · · Score: 1

    my monitors for light, and my processors to make coffee...

    --
    The lunatic is in my head
  49. Manual Transmission by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You don't have to put up with accelerating like an anemic grandmother, if you've got a manual transmission. Use the fuel for acceleration, then shift to neutral for downhill/flat coasting will really decrease your car's fuel consumption- though I'm in Western Oregon, we have more hills here to take advantage of, might not work in the plains.

    Manual tranmission all by itself will increase your energy-to-movement conversion by 50% as well, as we found out the hard way when my brother converted my grandmother's Datsun 720 to electric (we wondered why it only got 26 miles to a charge- then realized that the electric engine was never generating low enough torque to get the automatic to shift out of first gear).

    --
    SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    1. Re:Manual Transmission by chris_mahan · · Score: 2, Informative

      Coasting in neutral is illegal in California.

      --

      "Piter, too, is dead."

    2. Re:Manual Transmission by molo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      FYI, in modern cars, using engine breaking on the downhills can will use less gas than putting it in neutral. The inertia of the car moving keeps the cylinders turning with minimal fuel. Of course, this might not be helpful if you're just going to have to go back uphill.. but if there's a stop sign or light at the bottom of the hill, its probably worth it.

      -molo

      --
      Using your sig line to advertise for friends is lame.
    3. Re:Manual Transmission by bmwm3nut · · Score: 2, Informative

      Use the fuel for acceleration, then shift to neutral for downhill/flat coasting will really decrease your car's fuel consumption

      this was true in the days of carberators. now with electronic fuel injection, coasting does nothing, and actually may increase fuel usage. the engine computer is constantly monitoring the engine speed and the throttle position. there are presets in the computer that if the engine speed is too high compared to the throtte position it will quit firing the injectors until the speed comes back down. so when you go down a long steep hill, chances are that your ecu has turned off your injectors, and you're burning no fuel. i know this is true on my old '89 toyota with a very primitive efi system - so it's gotta be true on newer cars.

    4. Re:Manual Transmission by compwizrd · · Score: 1

      Why?

    5. Re:Manual Transmission by mink · · Score: 1

      Probably for the same reason it's illegal in other states.
      If the engine is not engaged you have no throttle control, no engine braking for if your brakes cut out. No ability to speed up if you need to get out of someones way. It sounds silly but I think I understand the point of it. Everyone thinks they are a careful driver and never will be in an accident, but it often happen when you least expect it.

      --
      Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
    6. Re:Manual Transmission by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      now with electronic fuel injection, coasting does nothing,

      Except that the engine causes resistance, thereby slowing down the vehicle. Everyone who drives a stick shift knows that a car slows down as soon as you release the gas, while it coasts if you depress the clutch.

    7. Re:Manual Transmission by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All you have to do is release your foot from the clutch, and the engine is engaged again. What's the problem?

    8. Re:Manual Transmission by ponos · · Score: 3, Informative
      then shift to neutral for downhill/flat coasting will really decrease your car's fuel consumption- though I'm in Western Oregon, we have more hills here to take advantage of, might not work in the plains.
      All modern cars turn fuel consumption OFF when you are going downhill without pressing the gas pedal with any gear except neutral. This is because the energy of the car keeps the engine rotating. When you use neutral you consume SOME fuel simply in order to keep the engine revolving (however, with neutral the car does not decelerate). Also, moving with low speed in the plains (~55 mph?) is very energy efficient, much more than going up and down hills. You simply cannot get back 100% of the energy that you spent to climb the hill.

      P.

    9. Re:Manual Transmission by gobbo · · Score: 1

      Sure, but don't coast with the clutch engaged, you'll throw a rod.

    10. Re:Manual Transmission by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      You might not have a time to do it. That's the problem.

    11. Re:Manual Transmission by mfarver · · Score: 1

      That doesn't make much sense.. most EV's are more efficient at higher motor RPM's. The series DC motors that are popular in conversion EVs have gobs of low end torque, but are most efficient at their RPM limit (typically about 5000 RPM). My MR2 is best left in third gear, the motor still makes enough low end torque for good acceleration, and reachs efficient cruising at about 45mph (typically the max speed for my commute). On the interstate I occasionally jump up into 4th to avoid the 5000rpm redline.

      You problem was more likely related to the torque converter. Most hobbyist conversion do not use automatic transmissions becuase they are not designed for the high low rPM torque of EV's. In a gas car you upshift to increase efficiency (slowing the motor down) in an EV you downshift (speeding the motor up). A tranny designed for a gas engine will not know that.

      Also automatics expect the motor to be constantly turning, that idle is used to run the transmissions internal oil pump. Without the idle the tranny drops into nuetral and it can take several seconds of motor turning before it drops into gear and starts moving. In an EV the electric motor has no need to idle so idling for the tranny's sake is wasteful.

    12. Re:Manual Transmission by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      indeed.. on my car, throwing the automatic into second will brake almost as fast as the car's normal brakes can do... if you can avoid putting it into a loop as one tire or the other loses traction. (been there, done that)

    13. Re:Manual Transmission by DZign · · Score: 1

      then shift to neutral for downhill/flat coasting will really decrease your car's fuel consumption

      I heard this a few months ago on a car program on tv: don't shift to neutral but just don't press the accelerator, will save more energy.
      Because if you shift in neutral the car still burns fuel to keep the motor going, if you let it roll on itself it doesn't (only works for 'modern' engines).

    14. Re:Manual Transmission by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      If you don't have time to release your foot from the clutch, what makes them think you'll have time to release your foot from the throttle to use engine braking (which takes a good deal longer than standard braking)?

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
  50. conserve? by jevring · · Score: 1

    I do my best not to converve energy, actually
    as we all know, the byproduct of poorly engineered systems that use energy, is that they also generate heat.
    well with something like 17-18 degrees C in my dorm, I keep all the heaviest peices of computing gear I have running, just to ehat the damn place.
    had this not been the case, I still think I would do little about the electrical energy I consume, howerver I wouldn't buy an suv when something smaller and more efficient will do

    --
    Move sig!
  51. heating water by Tumbleweed · · Score: 1

    Noting that the two big energy "hogs" are the hot water heater and the dryer

    That would be simply, 'water heater.' :)

    If you own your home, you might try an on-demand water heating system. Not only is it much more energy efficient, you effectively have 'unlimited' hot water for long showers with the SO.

    1. Re:heating water by bluGill · · Score: 1

      No, hot water heater. If it is heating cold water you don't have enough capacity for your useage.

      No-demand heaters are not all that great. You get enough water for 2 showers, but that is it. Showers are also not a high demand water use item, so using the washer precludes all showers.

      A good water heater is a lot more efficient than you give it credit for. Sure the tankless are better than the 20 year old models, but compare a modern high efficiency model and the tankless isn't so good.

  52. simple, inexpensive things by NaturePhotog · · Score: 4, Informative
    We've been following the 10 simple ideas that elid linked to, and while our energy usage wasn't that high to begin with, it's definitely cutting our energy use further.
    • As bulbs burn out, we've replaced them with fluorescents. These days there are even 3-way fluorescent bulbs and fluorescent exterior flood lights (which coupled with a motion sensor are even better at saving energy).
    • When it was time for a new clothes washer, we bought the most energy-efficient one we could, a front loading model. They use less water, get clothes cleaner, put less wear on the clothes in the process, and leave clothes dryer, leaving less work for the clothes dryer (or the sun in summer).
    • When it was time for a new water heater, we spent the extra and got a tankless model with electronic ignition so there's no pilot light and not 30+ gallons of water being kept hot whether any is being used or not.
    • I no longer leave my computer on over night. Takes longer to get started in the morning, but boot time is now go pour myself some coffee time :-)
    • We've had a programmable thermostat for the furnace for years. Turns down when you leave for work (before I started working at home), turns up when you get back, with different schedules for weekends versus weekdays. Not only do you use less energy, but the house can be warming up when you wake up in the morning.
    In addition to those ideas:
    • We've had a Toyota Prius since 2001. Simply put, it's the best car my wife or I have ever owned. Great mileage, low emissions, low maintenance, and the newer model is even better. Plus there's a $2000 federal tax break.
    • Trip-linking. Plan your errands so you can do a number of short, connected trips instead of heading out every time you need something. Or better, figure out how you can skip the trip altogether :-)
    • Rather than buy an air conditioner for the couple of months a year we'd need one, I installed a ceiling fan in our bedroom.
    • We have a couple of cloth bags we use for shopping instead of getting new plastic or paper ones every time we go.
    • I'm in the process of replacing the old single-pane windows with dual-pane. This is more expensive and/or difficult than some people can do, but Marvin makes the Tilt-Pac for replacing just the window but leaving the existing frame. They're cheaper than a whole new window, and simple enough to install that people with some home improvement experience can do it themselves.
    • I'm also in the process of adding insulation to our house, which was built with exactly none to start with. The attic was easy enough to add insulation to, but insulating existing walls is a bit harder. Blown in loose insulation tends to settle over time, and doesn't fill in small gaps very well. I'm looking at alternatives such as soy-based spray foam insulation.
    • I'm in the process of designing, permitting, and hopefully in a couple of months, building a small addition to our house (going from about 1000 sq. ft. to about 1300 sq. ft.). The design incorporates as many green building techniques as possible, including more insulation than required by code, south-facing windows for solar heating in winter, large roof overhang to avoid solar heating in summer, natural lighting via well-placed windows, and a large south-facing roof for the future addition of solar panels. That's in addition to stuff like low/no-VOC paints and bamboo flooring which don't necessarily use less energy, but are better for the environment.
    Besides the construction, none of these things is that difficult or expensive compared with their alternatives. And most if not all will save you money in the long run if you're in your house any length of time.
    1. Re:simple, inexpensive things by TomTraynor · · Score: 1
      A few other thinks we did->
      1. We also put pipe insulation on the feed out of the hot water tank.
        1. A large blanket is on top of the freezer. That made a huge difference in how often it runs. Just don't cover the back.
        2. The furnace is serviced every year.
        3. We keep the furnace as low as possible. It is easier (and cheaper) to put on a sweater.
        4. Checking the windows every fall and caulking any holes.
      --
      Panic now, beat the rush!
    2. Re:simple, inexpensive things by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      We have a couple of cloth bags we use for shopping instead of getting new plastic or paper ones every time we go.

      I would never do this. I can't get enough plastic grocery bags: they're invaluable for all kinds of things around the house, like taking my lunch to work, scooping the kitty litter, etc. And when they have too many holes to be used again, I save them up and take them to be recycled. Many stores like Wal-Mart now take these.

  53. Stop using so much water...Drip Irrigation. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Try drip irrigating your lawn.

    Use a grass species that uses less water.

    Convert to a rock garden.

  54. Quietus by Stanistani · · Score: 1

    I got rid of my car, moved closer to work and my kid's school, fix and reuse, recycle more, and spend more of my time now with my family than working harder to be a good consumer.

    I'm also now completely out of debt.

  55. I live in the city by ratsnapple+tea · · Score: 1

    Without getting into a huge, offtopic argument about urban vs. rural living, I can state that I (and my 8 million city-dwelling compatriots) use less energy, on average, than rural and suburban folks. We eat out at restaurants instead of cooking meals individually. Almost everything we need is within two minutes' walking distance, so we don't hop into our SUVs for a fifteen minute round trip every time we need groceries. And when we have to travel, we do it by rail and bus.

    Physics is on our side, too. In winter, apartments don't bleed heat into the atmosphere the way single-family homes do. In summer, our buildings expose less surface area (ratio) to let in the heat.

    I'll grant that someone living in a wood cabin in Montana might use less energy. But who wants to live in Montana?

    1. Re:I live in the city by fred+fleenblat · · Score: 1
      I'm with you on everything but this part:

      We eat out at restaurants instead of cooking meals individually.

      I realize there's an efficiency of scale from having 100 people all getting their food cooked on the same stove, but I've seen restaurant equipment and it isn't very efficient. Huge flames, giant vents to move the heat and smoke out of the kitchen, and the sad part is that they leave almost every cooking appliance on the whole time they're open. Soup has to stay hot on a stove, the oven has to stay hot, the grill has to stay hot. On top of that, there is an add-on effect from staffing the restaurant: by delegating food prep, you now have to have more people around. Their housing and transportation uses energy in a fairly insidious overpopulation-inducing feedback loop.

    2. Re:I live in the city by ratsnapple+tea · · Score: 1

      Oh yeah, good call. On the other hand, when I cook dinner it usually sends my entire apartment building to the ER. Surely there must be a savings when I eat out instead.

    3. Re:I live in the city by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Surely there must be a savings when I eat out

      Depends who you're eating out.
      BAAA DUMP UMP!

    4. Re:I live in the city by sfjoe · · Score: 1


      I'll be the first to admit I don't have any hard data but I'd be willing to bet that the efficiency of scale more than compensates for the relative inefficient use of energy. Like a public bus that appears to be adding major amounts of pollution, it is actually adding less than if each one of its occupants was driving. Similarly the restaurant (I think) causes a net savings of energy.

      --
      It's simple: I demand prosecution for torture.
  56. saving gas by klossner · · Score: 1
    I bus/bike to work. My kids bike to school. My wife can't bike, so she bought a Prius hybrid car and drives three miles to work. She fills the tank about once a month.

    Then I burn a tankful of gas on weekends driving my minivan to hikes and geocaches.

  57. How do I conserve energy? Simple. by charlesbakerharris · · Score: 1

    I sit at my desk all day rather than walking around and being active. I tell you, it saves me a ton of energy...

  58. Re:Volkswagen TDI (1992 Mazda MX-3) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    While we're on the topic of efficient cars, I'd like to mention mine. Not quite as fuel efficient, but about the highest efficiency * performance product available (IMHO). The MX-3 comes with a 1.6 l 4-banger or 1.8 l V6. Early versions of the 4 were SOHC, later are DOHC (Double OverHead Camshaft). I have the little SOHC engine with a stickshift, and get 37-40 mpg on gasoline, and the 94 and later should get even better with DOHC. Depending on location, this may even be less cost/mile than diesel at 46 mpg. (diesel / gasoline price ratio is about 1 here, but varies a lot) This thing is an awesome sports coupe, and hasn't sacrificed any performance (except maximum speed) for that kind of mileage. If you need a sports car, this is a good choice.

  59. Don't forget the big items by fred+fleenblat · · Score: 1

    Saved $120/month by turning of the jacuzzi-like thing in our backyard. Man that was a hog. The salesman said it was going to be abouyt $25/mon. Liar.

    Blew a big wad of money on a 4-zone 2 stage a/c with SEER of 15.0. This replaced an unzoned 1-stage with an SEER that I was guessing to be about 9 when originally installed but probably down to about 5 because of mechanical problems. Unless you're county building codes are strict about a/c efficiency, you probably have the cheapest, least efficient a/c that was available when your house was built.

    Newer houses have lots of "can lights" these days. Mine came with 20+ 75W floods sprinkled throughout the house. I replaced 'em all with 18W compact fluourescents. I didn't see a direct effect on the electric bill 'cause I replaced the bulbs gradually, but I'm guessing at about $15 a month in savings from that.

    Another killer was a portable 1500W space heater that my wife liked to leave on for several hours a day. I unplugged it one day when she was gone and hid it from her.

    All told, my highest electric bills have been just above $300. Last one was $79 and I'm anticipating summer peaks of maybe $130 this year.

    Future plans include a new fridge, better insulated windows, a vapor barrier in the attic, and some quality time with a caulking gun.

  60. True Logic by compressedaudio · · Score: 1

    I am saving energy by using compact flourecent bulbs, turning off things like the t.v. and video rather than them being left in standby. 40c clothes wash, only boiling as much water as I need in the kettle, wearing more layers and turning the heating down. None take much effort. Also, I heard the amount of power saved by recycling an aluminium can, can power a t.v. for 2 hours (bbc news). Prolonging is a very good idea because in a few decades we will almost certainly have efficient fusion reactors, meaning we can get all our electricity without producing greenhouse gases. If we do nothing until then, we could begin a chain of unstoppable events that could wipe out large amounts of peoples, animals, land and countries within a couple of centuries. http://www.fusion.org.uk/ I must add that where I work, there are approx. 200 computers turned on 24/7 all year. For 16 hours of the day only half are being used, yet the rest are still turned on. The managers refuse to turn the boxes off for network reasons, but I insist that the monitors be turned off when not in use. Im trying to use my power as an employee to do this, and shall not rest until the matter is sorted. 100 monitors for 16+ hours is going to save on the electric bill too.

    1. Re:True Logic by innocent_white_lamb · · Score: 1

      100 monitors for 16+ hours is going to save on the electric bill too.

      Not much if the monitors support DPMS.

      --
      If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
    2. Re:True Logic by compressedaudio · · Score: 1

      100 monitors for 16+ hours is going to save on the electric bill too.

      Not much if the monitors support DPMS.


      I'm sure the monitors do support DPMS but they are not taking advantage of it. They seem to think that just having a screensaver on saves power. Thank you for the suggestion though, I'll put that point forward.

  61. How about LEDs? by stu42j · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I just found these online: 12 LED fits in bulb socket

    Don't put out a lot of light but might be good for some situations.

    1. Re:How about LEDs? by cmowire · · Score: 1

      Yeah.

      And by don't put out a lot of light, they mean "barely more efficent than incandescent and much less efficent than flourescent"

    2. Re:How about LEDs? by GoRK · · Score: 1

      LED's are considerably more power/cost efficient than both flourescent and incandescent; however they are considerably more expensive also. The best balance comes from flourescent.

      The linked bulb also is 12V only.. You'd have to convert your electrical wiring or fixtures to DC to use it in a home anyway and it's probably equivalent to about a 15W bulb. There are some real LED edison-base fixtures, but this is not one. I believe this kind of bulb is most suited to use in RV's and the like where you really need to think about power a lot more than in a regular on-the-grid house.

    3. Re:How about LEDs? by cmowire · · Score: 1

      You don't know what you are talking about. I can provide more evidence, but that was what I could find right off the top of my head.

    4. Re:How about LEDs? by bagofbeans · · Score: 1

      You can't generalise much about LED efficiency because it varies so much with the exact semiconductor material, plus how big the die is. However, a cost-effective LED backlight for a TFT is a little less efficient that a cost effective CCFL backlight. This includes the inefficiency of the current sourcing boost for the LEDs, and the high voltage supply to the CCFL.

      For fluorescent tube lighting, a lot of power is wasted in the ballast (old type) or boost supply (compact type) - feel how hot the base of a compact fluorescent gets.

      The much touted high current, reasonably efficient LEDs from Nichia and Lumex are far too expensive for domestic lighting, and don't target those applications. The main reason that LEDs replace incandescent is not efficiency - it's that the half-life of 50k hours saves the replacement labour cost. A red LED traffic light costs about $45.

  62. remote controls! by Roadmaster · · Score: 1

    I bought a universal remote so that I have to get up from the couch even less. And hey, I've cut my battery consumption by 80% as well! :)

  63. You should consider.... by gmletzkojr · · Score: 1

    ....moving back in with your mom.

    Actually, as sick as that sounds, sharing a structure with other family members is a good way to save on some costs. For example, if there are 2 families living in 2 (similar) houses, it takes X to heat each home. However, if they both move in together, it still takes roughly X to heat one house. So, if you have a family member/friend/etc that you can stand to live with, you can save some money together on not duplicating services at each home. In this example of heat, each of you now pay about X/2 of the heat bill.

    --
    I for one welcome our new [insert main topic] overlords.
    1. Re:You should consider.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...moving back in with your mom.

      Too late, I already moved in with his mom.

  64. SOTBE? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Servants Of The British Empire?

  65. Big Corporations' Role in This by Sundroid · · Score: 1

    I assume the question is posed to regular folks, but I think big corporations definitely have a role to play in conserving energy. Having worked in corporate America for years, I have one suggestion for them -- scale down orders that require outside van/truck delivery services, and/or create an in-house delivery service composed of fuel-efficient vehicles.

    Big corporations order things to be delivered to their front door at the drop of a hat -- the fuel consumption of a delivery van that trucks in a couple of boxes of xerox paper, for instance, is wasteful. Instead, they should start an in-house delivery service composed of hybrid, or any other fuel-efficient, vehicles.

    Nothing against the delivery and trucking industries, but if more corporations have their own fleet of fuel-efficient delivery vehicles, more jobs will be created in the computer industry that will help design and manufacture fuel-efficient cars.

  66. I refuse to conserve energy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    I pay thousands of dollars in taxes each year supporting a military that is expected to make sure I have an abundance of cheap energy. I'll be damned if I'll pay those taxes AND cut my energy consumption.

  67. compact fluorescent lamps (CFLs) by GreenSwirl · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you've had problems with CFLs burning out after less than two years, or with them not starting right away when switched on, or with them being too dim when they are first switched on, then TRY A DIFFERENT CFL.

    Unlike incandescent lamps, which are pretty much all the same regardless of manufacturer, CFLs vary widely in their performance. CFLs from the major lighting manufacturers have been proven in independent studies to last at least as long as they claim under standard conditions. (We did those independent tests here at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute's Lighting Research Center http://www.lrc.rpi.edu/.)

    CFLs from the dollar store work about as well as you'd expect them to. But even different CFLs from the same known company perform differently in terms of start-up delay, warm-up time, color appearance, and whether or not base-up light output differs from base-down.

    The best way to buy CFLs for your home is to pick out 3 different ones from companies you've heard of. Try them out side-by-side and observe their performance -- you will see differences, especially in the color. Then go back to the store and buy a bunch more of the one you like best. Put the other two into your porch lights.

    Make sure that whichever one you choose, it is at least as small as a regular light bulb, so that it can fit anywhere. If you have any of your light circuits on dimmers, make sure you get CFLs that say they are dimmable. They even make 3-way CFLs.

    I have CFLs in every light bulb socket in my home, including the one in the stove hood. Unfortunately, I still have one of those dimmable halogen torchiere floor lamps that uses a 300W halogen bulb, even though there are "fluorescent torchieres" now available that use one-fourth the electricity.

    1. Re:compact fluorescent lamps (CFLs) by Suidae · · Score: 1

      If you have any of your light circuits on dimmers, make sure you get CFLs that say they are dimmable.

      Since this is a geek site, its worth mentioning that very vew CFLB's are X10 dimmable. The dimmable sort tend to run about $25-30.

      I'd love to switch to 100% CF, but its just not worth loosing the ability to dim my lights.

  68. Fairly clear? by Brandybuck · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's fairly clear that conservation is an overlooked solution to the 'energy crisis'.

    It's not fairly clear. In fact, I think the opposite it true, that conservation is the first solution looked to. It's the solution that's been used for the last thirty years.

    How many times have you heard your mother say over the years: "Turn off your lights when you're not using them! Do you think electricity comes from a well or something?"

    We could conserve more, but a lot of us don't really know where our energy goes. Do you know how much energy your computer consumes? So why don't you turn it off when you're not using it? I see far too many "environmentally concerned" citizens that keep their computers on all the time. At work I turn off my computer on the weekend and people actually look at me as if I'm nuts for doing it. I've got a friend who's in Earth First, and owns an NVidia card with more fan horsepower than my Hoover vacumn! Where's the sense in that?

    --
    Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
  69. zerg by Lord+Omlette · · Score: 1

    I walk the 30 minutes to & from the lab. (this gut isn't going to go away by itself...)

    I keep the hot water off when I'm taking a shower. (we've only got a 60 gallon heater, and I've got to wake up anyway...)

    I turn the heat off in the lab when everyone leaves. (I've got a sweater, gloves, and hat, word to my man, Jimmy Carter!)

    I turn the computer off during the day when I'm not there. (It's not like anyone's going to IM me anyway...)

    I used to be able to say "I run the washing machine & dryer at night so it doesn't strain the building's grid" but, surprise! Some of the new tenants didn't like that...

    --
    [o]_O
  70. Fact checking? by ivan256 · · Score: 1

    It's fairly clear that conservation is an overlooked solution to the 'energy crisis'.

    This is so wrong I'm having a hard time finding where to begin.

    For starters, I hardly think that conservation is "overlooked." People know about it. People conserve all the time when conservation results in a net cash savings. Make conservation less expensive, and people will conserve even more. Make it possible to conserve without a reduction in quality of life, or better, an improvement, and people will conserve as much as possible.

    Secondly, conservation isn't a solution. I'm not saying we shouldn't conserve. Certainly, we should. But, with the population of the world growing, and the number of people living in poverty (hopefully) shrinking as the rest of the world becomes more inustrialized, energy consumption is going to increase no matter how much conservation you do.

    So: conservation is a potential short-term stop-gap to our energy problems, but it's neither long term, nor a solution. The only thing that can be considered a solution is something that produces (collects/converts/etc.. if you want to be pedantic) more and cleaner energy. A problem with this is that many "environmentalists" aren't interested in merely helping the environment. They also want to change people's lifestyles to fit what they see as the proper way to live. They take this so far that they are often willing to reject technology that would reduce polution and energy costs simply because it wouldn't also force people to reduce consumption and change their lifestyle.

  71. Acceleration fallacy by Weasel+Boy · · Score: 1

    Do not make your car drastically more unsafe by removing its ability to accelerate quickly when the need arises. When an out-of-control semi is bearing down on me, I'd rather lose an ounce of gas to my foot on the floorboard than a gallon of blood to my face on his grill.

    I call bullshit. I accept that your safety is dependent on your ability to control your position relative to other vehicles. In order to change your relative position, you need relative velocity. In order to change relative velocity, you need acceleration. Okay. Take your car up to 50 miles per hour. Accelerate at your maximum possible rate for 5 seconds. Repeat the test, but decelerate at your maximum possible rate for five seconds. Which affected your velocity more? The one that affected your velocity more is the one that gives you more control, and thus more safety. In nearly every conceivable circumstance, you will find that adjusting your velocity by means of the steering wheel and the brake will take you out of danger much faster than the accelerator.

  72. I'm doing a few common sense things: by scumdamn · · Score: 1
    • My wife and I work close together so we carpool. For times we can't/don't carpool, I drive my motorcycle (50+ miles to the gallon, thank you).
    • I cut down to one desktop and two laptops at home. I run pretty much everything on surge protectors and I turn them off when things aren't in use. We also use less heat this year than we did last year by keeping the house more humid (look into getting a vaporizer if you're in a fairly dry climate).
    We've managed to halve our electric bill this month (first month in our new house) and hopefully the bill will stay steady. When we actually build our house it will be concrete with really good insulation so we won't be prey to the temperature extremes here in Texas.
  73. VMWARE by haplo21112 · · Score: 1

    I am converting to a VMWARE infrastructure, makeing as many machines as I can virtual.

    --
    Power Corrupts,Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely, leaving one person(group)in charge is absolutely corrupt.
  74. Don't drive by Weasel+Boy · · Score: 1

    Walk or ride your bike to work. Not only will you save energy, you will gain energy as you get in better shape. And it's fun. And bicyclists are more fun to watch than drivers.

    1. Re:Don't drive by /dev/trash · · Score: 1

      It takes me 30 minutes to drive to work now. Walking or biking would mean I spend more time commuting than I do now.

    2. Re:Don't drive by Zoyd · · Score: 1

      Walking or biking would mean I spend more time commuting than I do now.

      When you walk or bike you are doing two things at once, unless you do not consider exercise valuable. When you drive, OTOH, you are working (performing the job of driving, during which time you are not legally allowed to do anything else) while not getting paid for it.

      Now, who is it who is wasting time?

    3. Re:Don't drive by falconwolf · · Score: 1

      Walk or ride your bike to work. Not only will you save energy, you will gain energy as you get in better shape. And it's fun. And bicyclists are more fun to watch than drivers.

      It may be fun but it can also be deadly riding a bike. I used to ride mine 200+ miles a week, but in the last year I rode regularly I was hit by three drivers. The last tyme put me in a coma and while I was out the docs told my family it'd be a miracle if I lived. NOT!!! I've frequently thought it would be been better if I had died.

      Falcon
    4. Re:Don't drive by Weasel+Boy · · Score: 1

      That sucks. You've had very bad luck. According to NHTSA statistics, on average bicycles are 10 times safer per mile traveled than cars. The problem with statistics is that while averages are dependable, the individual data points include extreme outliers. At 3 collisions in one year, you're probably out around 3 or 4 sigma. :-(

    5. Re:Don't drive by falconwolf · · Score: 1

      That sucks. You've had very bad luck. According to NHTSA statistics, on average bicycles are 10 times safer per mile traveled than cars. The problem with statistics is that while averages are dependable, the individual data points include extreme outliers. At 3 collisions in one year, you're probably out around 3 or 4 sigma. :-(

      Yeah, just as the statistics say bike riding may be safer, but it's the pits when you're one of the small number at the other end. My injury makes it even more so, I'm a survivor of a TBI.

      Background:

      "Neuropsychological impairments caused by brain injury may be characterized in terms of three functional systems (1) intellect which is the information-handling aspect of behavior; (2) emotionality, which concerns feelings and motivations; and (3) control, which has to do with how behavior is expressed."

      "Brain damage rarely affects just one of these systems. Rather, the disruptive effects of most brain injuries, regardless of their size or location, usually involve all three systems."

      -- Source: Neuropsychological Assessment, 2nd Ed., 1983,
      by Muriel D. Lezak
      Brain Injury Checklist
      Or Brain Injury Checklist
      And the homepage:
      Brain Injury Resource Center
      Or Brain Injury Resource Center
      Falcon

  75. promoting... by confused+one · · Score: 1
    You might mean the flourescent lighting & water heater set to 120F, as I have. What I think you're really asking though, is "How do you conserve fuel?" since fuel costs are why energy prices are going up. To answer that question: I promote nuclear, solar, water and wind power whenever I can.

  76. How do I conserve by TomTraynor · · Score: 1

    Around the house ->
    - Compact Flourescent where I can
    - Power bars on everything. When not in use I turn the bar off. TVs, monitors even when off draw power.
    - Timer on the fish tank lights.
    - Constant yelling at the kids to turn off the lights.

    Driving ->
    - Taking the bus most of the time.
    - When driving we know where we are going rather than aimless driving.

    We now only fill up the car every 2 weeks rather than twice weekly. Hydro bill has dropped about $30/bill.

    --
    Panic now, beat the rush!
  77. Acceleration facts by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1
    OK, now that you've stated the fallacy:

    In nearly every conceivable circumstance, you will find that adjusting your velocity by means of the steering wheel and the brake will take you out of danger much faster than the accelerator.

    ...we can all agree on the facts: there are many, many instances where increasing your forward velocity rapidly is the only safe course of action. The most common is the case where you find yourself merging onto a busy highway from an on-ramp or other start-from-a-standstill position. You need to be ably to quickly match your speed to that of the empty spot you're driving next to. If you can't, you'll probably find yourself choosing between 1) driving past the end of the merge lane in a frantic attempt to accelerate, or 2) slamming on your brakes when you realize it isn't going to happen.

    Gentle acceleration and slow stops are worthy ideals to shoot for, but if you think that crippling a car's ability to interact with its environment is a good idea, then you need to get out of the Traffic Theory classroom and onto the road. Just don't do it near where I live, OK?

    --
    Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    1. Re:Acceleration facts by Weasel+Boy · · Score: 1

      I stand by my claim: "In nearly every conceivable circumstance." Even in the circumstance you describe, my claim is true. You are safer sitting at rest in the entrance lane or on the shoulder waiting for an opening than you are flooring it and merging into traffic.

  78. wind energy by middlemen · · Score: 1

    collect all the obese ppl, get them to eat a lot of beans non-stop and then tell them to fart as hard as they can ... get the airflow to some windmills and generate electricity... hey isnt that how the cellfone charger works!!

    1. Re:wind energy by WiFiBro · · Score: 1

      as long as you don't let cows fart for you as their methane farts are 30 times stronger greenhouse gas than carbondioxide.
      thank god we don't have to worry too much about methane in our own farts says http://www.heptune.com/farts.html

  79. Without sacrificing lifestyle by gunnk · · Score: 1

    Sometimes you can conserve energy with an absolutely negligible impact on your lifestyle simply by making sure your stuff works the way it is designed to:

    1 - Get your furnace/heat pump maintained! For gas furnaces, they need to burn efficiently. Corrosion can block heat transfer causing less heat to go into your house and more to vent outside with the fumes. Heat pumps low on refrigerant run much more than needed. Save energy. Save money.

    2 - Get your car tuned. Is it missing? That's unburned fuel going out the exhaust. Save energy. Save money.

    3 - Insulate your hot water pipes. Are you dumping the heat from your hot water into your crawlspace? Insulating the pipes will cut your costs, save energy and may even let you turn down the thermostat on your hot water heater since you won't be losing water temperature en route from the heater to your tub (more energy saved, more money saved).

    4 - Dishwasher? READ THE MANUAL! It may have lower energy modes that will cut the grease just fine while using less energy. Mine also suggests running water at the sink until the water runs hot before you start the dishwasher. If the water is cold when it reaches the dishwasher, the dishwasher has to heat it up. It's much less efficient than a hot water heater, so it consumes a lot more energy that way.

    5 - How hot is your hot water? You want it hot enough to meet your needs (i.e.: when mixed with cold water you should be able to take a shower of a duration of your choice). If it is hotter than needed, you are just wasting energy: heat transfers at a rate proportional to the difference between the hot spot and the cold spot. In this case that means the inside of your hot water heater and the outside. Don't make that difference more than you need.

    6 - Wash full loads of clothes. A full washer is more efficient than one half-full. On the other hand don't overstuff your dryer. A stuffed dryer can't do it's job because air can't penetrate the mass of clothing. Two smaller loads in the dryer (up to a point) are better than one overstuffed load. For that matter, don't let clothes get smelly, but don't overwash them either. If they aren't dirty you're just wearing them out.

    7 - How old is your fridge? If it's old, think about a new one. Efficiencies have gone up quite a bit in the past two decades.

    8 - How old is your weatherstripping? Is it cracked, smashed, or missing? A little extra insulation in the attic helps as well.

    9 - Cook bigger meals and then save the leftovers. Cook once -- eat twice to cut the use of the oven.

    10 - Check your water meter. If everything is turned off in your house, but the meter is moving you have a leak. Leaks waste water and money and might be slowing rotting something away that will cost big buck later.

    11 - Adjust your toliets to use a tad less water. Most toliets use an adjustable float to determine when they are full. Adjust it! On older models this is as simple as adding a slight bend to the rod that runs to the float. If a toliet is leaking you need to repair it (kits are cheap) or replace it with a newer, more efficient toliet.

    None of these things make you change your lifestyle in any appreciable way (though cooking with the intention of having leftovers WILL give you more free time). :)

    --
    Life is short: void the warranty.
  80. Structural Insulated Panels by UranusReallyHertz · · Score: 1

    I really like the new construction system called structural insulated panals, or sips. They consist of a 4 to 8 inch thick layer of polystyrene or polyurethane foam sandwiched between two layers of oriented strand board. They go together in a tongue and groove fashion and the seams are injected with foam and taped. They can be strctural and non-structural, and are amazeingly strong. They can be used for floors, wall, and roofs. You end up with a nearly perfectly airtight house with a perfectly uniform R-value of 30 to 40. Obviously this greatly reduces the energy needed to heat and cool a house. Combine this with reversible geothermal heatpumps and TOTAL ANUAL heating and cooling costs in states like Wisconsin are less than 200 dollars for a large home. Plus the use of OSB allows the use of samll, fast growing trees and scrap wood. And sure the foam is oil based but over the the life span of the home it actually saves and enormous amount of oil from heating saveings.

    --
    Smoking is an expensive, slow, and unreliable method of suicide.
  81. Hybrid vs Bus vs Stuff by growthfetishist · · Score: 1

    I find I get the best out of all worlds - I ride a motorcycle to work - it is cheap fast and fun. It uses less resources and fuel than a hybrid car, is less smelly and inconvenient than a bus. Best of all is getting to work with a smile on my face!

    1. Re:Hybrid vs Bus vs Stuff by WiFiBro · · Score: 1

      are you sure about the less smelly part? i heard motorcycles have similar emissions to cars. but hat was ten years ago.

  82. Generating your own energy by coolmadsi · · Score: 0

    I think one of the best way to conserve energy would be to generate it with different means as well as using it less, therefore more energy to go round to a shrinking market so there will be lots of excess energy; other raw materials can be saved instead of used.

    I have a 2 different torches, neither need a battery and neither will need a battery. One is powered by shaking it for a few minutes which charges some electromagnetic coils (like in Science at school) which powers the torch for 10 or so minutes. The other torch is a better; for about 10 seconds of squeesing this weird thingy sticking out the side (i love technical language) if gives the torch about 10 or 15 minutes of power.

    I think there should be other ways that people could do during their everyday lives that generate power. Instead of walking or jogging to keep fit, someone should invent some kind of huge hamster wheel that generates electricity - you keep fit AND generate electricity. Although storing a huge hanster wheel somewhere would be hard.

    I remember reading on hackaday a few weeks ago about a Gurrilla Solar (PDF) device.

  83. Ride my bike to work by toygeek · · Score: 1

    I ride my bike to work. Conserves energy and cuts down on pollution. Increases health and fitness levels. Increases *mental* health levels by far.

    Really getting on my bike and riding is among the best things I've done in my adult life.

  84. Conservation by jonniesmokes · · Score: 1

    What a good thread! I've been astounded at the lack of creative thinking about saving energy here in the United States. Everyone always sounds the hyperbolic argument that environmentalists just want to bring us back to the stone age and then go one wasting all of our resources.

    What's needed is a compromise. I know that not everyone is willing to move to within 5 miles of their work and bicycle to their job. I know not everyone will pack their own lunch and reuse the tupperware. I know that not everyone will turn the thermostat down to 60 deg F in the winter. But if just 10% of us did, imagine! And for those of us that do - we save literally $1000's/year. I estimate that I'm saving about $4000/year by not owning a car. I've got a bike trailer and haul around groceries and even lumber for house projects. I'm stronger and more fit and I can park just about anywhere.

    Other brain dead things, are to check your driving directions and leave more time for yourself to get to your destination. I've wasted so much time, gas and nerves trying to get somewhere in a hurry. And when you don't know how to get there, what a huge waste. That's what map.yahoo.com can do for you.

    Or plan, so that you only have to make one trip to the store/downtown/mall instead of two or three. I can't believe the amount of time people in the burbs spend driving to the 'convenience' store only to go back 2 hours later.

    A lot of times conservation is simply common sense. Its about being efficient and smart not just altruistic.

  85. energy conserve question for the slashdot crowd by slartibart · · Score: 1
    This gives me a chance to ask something:

    In the winter, does it save energy to turn off lights when not in use?

    If I know my physics, theoretically the answer is no. All the electrical energy used by a light bulb either is converted to heat inside the bulb (which you need anyway, because it's winter) or light, which immediately strikes something in the room and is converted to heat.

    Whatever heat is produced stays inside the house, and just means your heater runs that much less. The amount of energy saved in your heater should be almost exactly equal to that consumed by your light bulb. Assuming your heater is electric, it would seem that you don't save any energy by turning the light off (unless the light is near a window and some light escapes the house, but I imagine this is a negligible energy loss).

    When I was in high school, my parents nagged me constantly about the lights being on. I tried to give them the above argument, but they just weren't buying it.

    Can anyone help validate (or invalidate) my argument?

    1. Re:energy conserve question for the slashdot crowd by fred+fleenblat · · Score: 1
      You are correct only if the building is heated by electrical resistance.

      If it is heated by any other method (including heat pumps), there will be some difference in cost, usually favoring the alternative. Exactly how much difference depends on utility rates and the efficiency of installed equipment.

      Judging by this it's fair to say that electrical resistance heating is 2 to 4 times more expensive than other heating methods.

  86. Clean. That's funny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The waste from nuclear energy is so dirty that various state governors have attempted to block it from being shipped through their states. I wonder if you have ever stopped to consider the extraordinary amount of energy it takes to mine and refine uranium. I doubt it.

  87. Tankless heaters can be less efficient by 2nd+Post! · · Score: 1

    Tankless heaters aren't always more efficient.

    If you've got a tanked heater inside your home, then it isn't losing heat to the outside environment. If you've got it on a south facing side, it can absorb heat from the sun too.

    So it isn't always the right solution. You can probably reduce your energy costs for your tankless if you get a tank, paint it black, place it in a solar closet, and have that feed your 'cold' water line.

    1. Re:Tankless heaters can be less efficient by NaturePhotog · · Score: 1
      If you've got a tanked heater inside your home, then it isn't losing heat to the outside environment. If you've got it on a south facing side, it can absorb heat from the sun too.

      Good point, though you're still heating the water whether you're using it or not, and in summer you've got to be careful you don't lose some of that 120' heat into your cooled living space. Our water heater is in an unheated partial basement so it wasn't an issue, but we have thought about doing a solar pre-heater much as you describe.

  88. Re:Clean. That's funny by pclminion · · Score: 1
    The waste from nuclear energy is so dirty that various state governors have attempted to block it from being shipped through their states.

    No, those governers have done what they've done because the residents of those states have irrational fears of nuclear waste. It is certainly a "dirty" material but it can be transported safely. Truck it down my street, if you like.

    I wonder if you have ever stopped to consider the extraordinary amount of energy it takes to mine and refine uranium. I doubt it.

    The amount of energy extracted from that refined uranium during the nuclear reactions absolutely dwarfs the energy required to refine it. In fact, it is quite possible to power a uranium refining facility with a nuclear generator.

  89. I'm an American by ageoffri · · Score: 1
    Since I'm an American I'll let my children, if I ever have them, worry about energy conservation.

    So for now I'll enjoy my heavily modified 405RWHP Z28 that gets about 10-12MPG.

    --
    -- Slashdot, making the Left look conservative since 1997.
  90. driving by LordMyren · · Score: 2, Informative

    i just did a 180 mile round trip to the ski resort wednesday and did a little experiment. i drove 62 mph the entire way (plus or minus, usually minus going uphill). my `84 Volvo wagon got an astounding 28 mpg! normally I get about 21 mpg, but normally i'm driving at least 75. i never accelerate hard at all, to conserve fuel.

    the extra 13 mph would've saved me ~20 minutes. instead i saved over two gallons of gas (180/28=6.4 180/21=8.5).

    you get diminishing returns for speeding. you have to travel twice as fast to get half the time. there's a very significant exponential decay in terms of time savings.

    i think i'm going to slow down a little. i'm wondering how different the situation is for cars with good engines.

    Myren

    1. Re:driving by mink · · Score: 1

      The result will vary based on the design of the engine more then anything else. This is because all engines have an optimal range to operate in and usually it's tuned to something near highway speed. By going significantly over thie speed it operates best at it has to do ever more work out of it's most efficient operating range. Driving into a strong wind will hurt your mileage as well.

      --
      Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
    2. Re:driving by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "the extra 13 mph would've saved me ~20 minutes. instead i saved over two gallons of gas (180/28=6.4 180/21=8.5)."

      Ok, maybe I'm looking at this wrong but aren't your calculations not taking into account the amount of time you were driving? Your mpg are better at lower speed but at 62 mph you are burning gas for 20 minutes longer than you were at 75 mph. I agree that you are going to use less gas overall at a lower speed even if you are on the road for a longer period of time but I don't agree with your calculations. Somebody correct me if i'm wrong.

    3. Re:driving by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're wrong. Mpg is miles per gallon. It doesn't matter if it takes 3 hours or 3 days; it's still 180 miles. You would have a point if he was talking about gallons per hour.

  91. Dimmable Fluorescents by LordMyren · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There's a couple major problems with fluorescents, a lot of which have been pointed out. But I havent seen my #1 beef:
    1) Its impossible to find dimmable fluorescents.

    They used to make em, a reasonable premium, but they're completely AWOL now.

    Other grievances:
    2) 60 hz DEATH TO EYES magical powers
    3) hideous spectrum: what is it, like 3 different narrowband peaks?

    Can someone recommend a dimmable full spectrum non-flickering fluorescent? cause that'd f'ing rock.

    -Myren

    1. Re:Dimmable Fluorescents by ambrosen · · Score: 1

      Non flickering? I've never seen a fluorescent that flickered at 60Hz. And it's a very long time since I saw one that flickered at 50. Electronic ballasts all the way, baby: easily 1kHz of flicker.

    2. Re:Dimmable Fluorescents by cmowire · · Score: 1

      I found a dimmable flourescent torch lamp 3 years ago at a lighting store. Dono if I could find 'em again.

      There are also starting to be 3-way and dimmable CF bulbs on the market.

      It's easier if you go to a "real" lighting place. It seems that dimmable lighting is a specialty item or something right now.

      My longer term plan is to replace as many of the light fixtures as my wife will let me get away with without having a fit with dimmable white neon (also called cold cathode) using a switching electronic transformer. But then, I've got access to neon working gear.

      But it's great stuff. Can be made in arbitrary shapes, the tubing's cold to the touch, etc. And it can be made to last for decades.

  92. The summary missed the point.... So do the posters by DerekLyons · · Score: 2, Insightful
    With oil again pushing historic nominal prices and all sorts of articles on alternative power, what are people doing practically to reduce their energy consumption? Has anyone come up with really nifty ways to cut their energy consumption without sacrificing their technical lifestyle?
    You do realize the conserving energy affects the amount of oil imported almost not at all? Most of the electrical energy (99%+) generated from fossil sources in this country comes from domestic gas and coal. (Most of the responses in this thread are about saving electricity.) That's not to say that conserving those isn't important, but that your concerns and your solutions are somewhat disconnected.
    It's fairly clear that conservation is an overlooked solution to the 'energy crisis'.
    I wonder where you've been through the last three decades, conservation has been high on the list of solutions since the early 70's. Don't you ever wonder why those excess grocery bags are getting so thin? Why we have 'green' PC's, and the push for electric cars? Why soda cans are thinner and lighter? Conservation. (Which is a long term solution, not a short term one.)
  93. Clean. That's funny-Irrational costs. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "No, those governers have done what they've done because the residents of those states have irrational fears of nuclear waste. It is certainly a "dirty" material but it can be transported safely. Truck it down my street, if you like."

    It can be safetly trucked down your street exactly because of that irrational fear. Otherwise "lowest cost" would have taken effect.

  94. Turn off the photocopy machines! by meckhert · · Score: 1

    My company decided the best way to save money was apparently to turn off all of the photocopy machines. Now, it takes 15 min to make a copy. Meanwhile, one of the executives has his own full size refrigerator in his office. Go figure.

  95. High-tech, uncommon, a smart decision =12-volt DC! by da5idnetlimit.com · · Score: 1

    12-volt DC ONLY!

    You might know that DC is "more efficient" on short range power transmission than AC...

    You might also have heard that people having solar panel mostly use low-energy appliances, which happen to run @ 12V DC...

    here is what I find when googling "12V DC energy savings"

    CET: New Energy Saving Efficient Products & Appliances - [ Traduire cette page ] ... New Energy Saving Efficient Products & Appliances, ... Mini DC Refrigerator: Low energy
    consumption; 1.8 cubic feet interior volume; ... Outdoor Wall Lantern- 12 volt DC. ...
    http://www.cetsolar.com/newprod.htm - 31k - 2 mar 2005 - En cache - Pages similaires

    CET: The Largest Alternative Energy Dealer in the Northeast - [ Traduire cette page ] ... solar charger can charge other 12 volt powered devices ... cellular phone with a DC charging
    cord ... Instant Outdoor Tree Decorating; Energy Saving LED Lighting Unit; ...
    http://www.cetsolar.com/ - 37k - 2 mar 2005 - En cache - Pages similaires
    [ Autres résultats, domaine www.cetsolar.com ]

    Our best 12 Volt DC Compact Fluorescent Bulb Uses 80% less energy ... - [ Traduire cette page ]
    12 Volt DC 11 Watt Compact Fluorescent Bulb This is the best in compact fluorescent
    DC lighting. The Solsum Energy Saving Lamp has the light output equal to a ...
    http://store.sundancesolar.com/12voldc11wat.html - 23k - En cache - Pages similaires

    Ballast 12 Volts and 24 Volts DC Electronic ballast, energy saving ... - [ Traduire cette page ] ... We have 12 V, 24 V and 48 volts DC Ballasts: Energy efficient, long life, solid
    state electronic 12 VDC ballast, for ... 24 volt models are also available. ...
    http://www.oksolar.com/lighting/ballast/ - 39k - En cache - Pages similaires

    Light bulbs 12 Volts and 24 Volts DC, Compact Fluorescent Light ... - [ Traduire cette page ] ... The Energy Saving Lamp is a 12 V compact fluorescent bulb with a light output
    equivalent to a 60 watt incandescent bulb. ... Voltage 12 Volts DC. ...
    http://www.oksolar.com/lighting/light_bulbs.htm - 99k - En cache - Pages similaires
    [ Autres résultats, domaine www.oksolar.com ]

    12 Volt Aquanet Sprinkler Valves - [ Traduire cette page ] ... Features/Benefits Energy-saving, Clog-proof - Dirty water DC Valves. ... with any 9 to
    14 Volt DC Pulse Signal ... to Aquanet wire run lengths: -12 gauge = 3,150' -14 ...
    http://www.mrdrip.com/12voltvalves.htm - 94k - En cache - Pages similaires

    Energy Efficient Lighting - Diversified Power & Engineering - [ Traduire cette page ] ... power outages or areas where AC power is unavailable. Price Qty Order US
    $19.95. More Details Energy Saving 110 Volt AC US $8.95, ...
    http://divpower.com/sub-category.asp?CatalogVar=0& cID=1 - 44k - En cache - Pages similaires

    Low Voltage Lights - 12 or 24v dc - [ Traduire cette page ] ... Both types are suitable for use in a wide range of applications: Solar & Wind Energy
    Systems. Boats. ... 12 or 24 volt DC models. Low Current Consumption. ...

    --
    It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
  96. I replaced all my light blubs. by kabocox · · Score: 1

    I replaced all my standard light blubs to
    GE Compact Fluorescent Spiral - 26 Watt - 10 pk. & GE Compact Fluorescent Spiral - 13 Watt - 10 pk.
    http://www.samsclub.com/eclub/main_shopping.j sp?co e=0&oidPath=0%3a-23542%3a-38373%3a-38411%3a-38429% 3a-38512%3a841473&mt=a&n=0&BV_SessionID=_SC_142033 1873.1109977034_CS_&BV_EngineID=cccgadddmlhfdhdcfk fcfkjdgoodfkf.0
    http://www.samsclub.com/eclub/mai n_shopping.jsp?co e=0&oidPath=0%3a-23542%3a-38373%3a-38411%3a-38429% 3a-38512%3a841474&mt=a&n=0&BV_SessionID=_SC_142033 1873.1109977034_CS_&BV_EngineID=cccgadddmlhfdhdcfk fcfkjdgoodfkf.0

    One day, I'm going to climb into the attic and check insulation. I may even put up weather stripping on my windows.

  97. Brain dump of things that really work by Yonder+Way · · Score: 2, Informative

    * Replace all of your incandescent light bulbs with compact fluorescent. Use the lowest wattage that you are comfortable with, reserving higher wattage for task lighting where you need the most clear illumination. This alone can cut your energy costs for lighting anywhere from 66%-75%.

    * Wrap your hot water pipes and heat vents with insulation.

    * Spray expansive foam insulation into your exterior facing walls.

    * Replace any appliances that heat with electricity. Natural gas is the most practical replacement.

    * Consider a passive solar water pre-heater so that warm/hot water goes in to your main water heater.

    * Switch your car. Skip the hypebrids... I mean hybrids... and go straight to a good turbodiesel. Volkswagen has done wonders with their TDI. Add a chip and you can get great performance and still do better than 40MPG. Volkswagen TDI is known to run well on 100% biodiesel, also, if you ever consider going that route.

    * Hang heavy curtains over your windows. Keep the curtains closed at night.

    * Consider putting a small awning over your windows to block the summer sun from coming in directly, but inviting the winter sun which sits lower in the sky.

    * Don't let your dishwasher dry the dishes. Dry them by hand.

    * Hang your clothes on a clothesline to dry them whenever possible.

    * If you live in an arid region, consider using a swamp cooler to augment or replace your air conditioning.

    * If you live on a nice chunk of land, consider augmenting your heat and hot water with a wood burning furnace. This is impractical if you have to buy wood. But a godsend if you live on a managed woodlot.

    * Replace all CRT monitors and televisions in your home with LCD's.

    * Get yourself a "killawatt" device which will allow you to measure the actual energy consumption of everything you have that plugs into a standard 110VAC outlet and determine what appliances you need to replace with more efficient ones.

    * Subscribe to Home Power and Countryside magazines to stay plugged into what other people are doing.

    1. Re:Brain dump of things that really work by Zoyd · · Score: 1

      * Spray expansive foam insulation into your exterior facing walls.

      Like this?:
      http://www.monolithic.com/construction/foam/index. html

      * Hang heavy curtains over your windows. Keep the curtains closed at night.

      Why put windows in your house?
      http://www.monolithic.com/gallery/homes/young/

    2. Re:Brain dump of things that really work by Yonder+Way · · Score: 1

      Monolithic domes are great and all, and if you are building a new home it should definitely be considered.

      But this advice was more along the lines of what you could do in a typical stick-built house without having to move out.

    3. Re:Brain dump of things that really work by falconwolf · · Score: 1

      Subscribe to Home Power

      This is the best idea in the list. Another good mag to subscribe to is "Solar Today".

  98. I send my wife out of the country by way2trivial · · Score: 1

    really..

    she's outta town, and I have the thermostat at 67

    she likes 75, but ALLOWS as 72 is more reasonable

    that 5 degree temp keeps me awake, and really helps.

    --
    every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
  99. Built a new house by N3Bruce · · Score: 1

    Seriously, for most people this is overkill, but I had to start with a clean slate anyway. My old house, a 2 story 1,200 square foot bungalow was built on a shoestring immediately after WW2, mostly by my grandparents. Insulation wasn't much of a priority, about 2 inches in the attic, and nothing in the 4 inch walls. In the coldest months of the year, it used about 170 gallons of oil a month to keep it at a toasty 65 degrees. When oil was 80 cents a gallon, this wasn't too bad to take, especially coming from an electrically heated townhouse. At $1.75 a gallon, the cost of oil and electricity topped $400 a month last winter. The house set on part of the old family farm, which was sold. We kept a building lot though, and I got a chance to build a new house on it.

    The new house sits on a piece of ground within sight of the old house and is even more exposed to the weather, (but the view is worth it). The new house is a single story house, about 1500 square feet (20 percent larger). Because of its sunbaked and windblown location, it was imperative to build in energy efficiency. Within my budget, I speced the house to be as energy efficient as possible, and as a result, the new house costs half as much to heat and cool as the old house, even though it is larger.

    Here are some improvements I specified:

    Insulation:

    6 inch walls with R-19 Fiberglass insulation

    10 inches in the attic, up to the tops of the joists, underneath OSB decking (the attic is currently used for storage)

    4 foot wide R6 reflective blanket insulation around the inside foundation perimeter (a new code requirement around here) Keeps the basement at 55-60 degrees without additional heat, except for leakage and radiation from the HVAC ductwork.

    There is some room for improvement, I might add R-19 insulation to the basement ceiling joists once I finish running additional electrial outlets downstairs. Upstairs is mostly heavy carpet, I am not sure if this is worthwhile or not.

    Windows are Energy Star rated, with argon filled double panes of low-E glass.

    Entire house is wrapped in Tyvek house wrap to reduce air infiltration. I also went with modular construction, rather than stick building.

    HVAC:

    I went with a high-efficiency heat pump with a propane backup. I seriously looked at doing a Geothermal heat pump, but the relatively long payback at then-current energy prices and a tightening construction budget prompted me to back off on this. I have been having second thoughts ever since, especially with deregulation of residential electric rates looming around here.

    Other things I need to do:

    Though I got a start last year, I need to add some additional landscaping. In particular, I need to plant some evergreens on the northwest side of the house to buffer it from the wintry blasts it currently gets. I have to carefully balance the buffering effects of landscaping against blocking my best view of the surrounding countryside though. I also need to plant some additional shade trees on the southeast side, to help keep it cool in summer. It will be a decade before the trees do much good, but the sooner I get started, the sooner they will help. Last year was the year of the cicada, and they attacked the Maples I did plant. I am keeping my fingers crossed that it survived the winter.

  100. Pretend You're Honourary Canadians by blacklite001 · · Score: 1
  101. Re:High-tech, uncommon, a smart decision =12-volt by MrResistor · · Score: 1

    I grew up in a 12vdc house, and I recommend 24vdc. Same efficiency advantages, but provides a little more power for important things like having adequate light to read by.

    Anyway, living in a DC house is like running Linux, in that it takes a bit more shopping effort to get devices that will work for you. I'm not sure I'd recommend it to anyone who wasn't going to take the extra step (and expense) of generating at least some of their own power. A phase matching inverter, some deep cycle batteries, and the power generation technology of your choice (solar's most popular, but wind and microhydro might also be interesting tech to check out, depending on your situation) and in the long run you can see some significant savings, while not only enjoying all the advantages of being on-grid, but also effectively having a whole-house UPS.

    --
    Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
  102. domestic coal is MUCH worse than middle eastern oi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I definitely prefer middle eastern oil to domestic coal. As far as I can see it is better to give the fanatics funds, than destroy our planet

  103. Re:High-tech, uncommon, a smart decision =12-volt by alienw · · Score: 1

    This is, quite honestly, the most retarded thing I have ever read. DC does offer some minor power savings -- if you are transmitting megawatts of power over megavolt transmission lines. It does not save anything for normal 120V wiring. In fact, it's a lot less efficient.

    AC transformers are nearly 95% efficient. A 12V DC-DC converter will, at best, be around 70% efficient. They simply don't make MOSFETs with low enough on-resistance to be efficient at low voltages. If you power your whole house with 12VDC, you will end up with ridiculous currents and you will have huge resistive losses in almost anything. Remember: Power = Voltage * Current = Current^2 * resistance.

  104. LCDs by Eil · · Score: 1


    Surprised that I didn't notice that anyone has mentioned what always seemed the most obvious to a computer geek like myself: Replace your bulky, inefficient CRT monitor with an LCD one.

    LCDs use a fraction of the power of CRTs, take up far less space, are easier to read and just look much cooler. As cheap as they are now, there is really no good reason to buy a CRT monitor for a regular desktop machine.

    However, I'm still waiting for this 19" behemoth CRT to hurry up and die since the above argument alone failed miserably on my wife...

    1. Re:LCDs by aflat362 · · Score: 1
      I guess switching your home computer to a laptop would do the same thing and more.

      Good luck waiting for your CRT to die. You should just save the cash separate from your normal funds, tell your wife you are getting a new monitor and go buy an LCD.

      In addition to the above arguments you could also say that CRT monitors produce an electromagnetic field and LCDs do not. Who knows if this is a health risk but it could be.

      --

      Conserve Oil, Recycle, Boycott Walmart

    2. Re:LCDs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just make a VGA-killer. That should effectively kill the monitor, and give you an excuse to get a new one.

    3. Re:LCDs by rzebram · · Score: 1

      If electromagnetic fields are a health risk, we're in big trouble. The Earth has one. A big one.

  105. Old bumper sticker from the 70s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Save Gas. Fart in a jar."

  106. How Are You Conserving Energy? by Gentlewhisper · · Score: 1

    I don't :)

  107. NIBYS Hate Wind Power Too! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just check out the Cape Wind project- A series of windmills which could theoretically supply 1/3 of Cape Cod's electricity in the summer months. Even though the windmills are beautiful, and even though they would be a couple miles out to sea, there is a huge crowd of (mostly) wealthy people, including a disturbingly large contingent of "Massachusetts Liberals", who're fighting it on "enviornmental grounds" wich mostly incldue "blockin' my million dollar cottage view grounds".

    1. Re:NIBYS Hate Wind Power Too! by INetUser · · Score: 1

      Damm NIMBYs! You'd think that they'd support the notion of not burning fossil fuels for electricity. Show's you how consistent they really are.

  108. old-fashioned methods by tverbeek · · Score: 1
    At what point (price of gasoline, electricity, etc) will you start to change your behavior?"

    I started around the time when gas hit a dollar a gallon. The first time. Nice of y'all to finally join me. {smile}

    I've always considered 30mi/gal a minimum fuel efficiency for a car, and 40mi/gal is what I drive now (1999 Chevy Metro; a new hybrid's out of my price range).

    But I don't drive it much. Just to the grocery store and laundromat, and to a once-a-month meeting out of town. To get to work or go to the movies and for most simple errands, I ride my bike or I take the bus if it's cold and/or wet. Pizza/beer/sub/hotdog/burrito/video/cash runs and coffee-house/bar visits are all done on foot; I chose to live in a mixed-use neighborhood where I can do that. (There's a gas station nearby as well, but I kinda need to drive the car to use it.)

    A simple low-tech way to reduce my water-heating costs was to dial the furnace down to showering temperature. It takes less energy to maintain that temperature, and I don't have to add cold water to my shower to then bring the temp back down. (The dishwasher heats itself, so the plates still get a good scalding.)

    Plus there's the compact fluoros and LCDs wherever shiny things are needed, socks and sweats instead of 70+F heating, and all the other usual energy-conservation tips.

    --
    http://alternatives.rzero.com/
    1. Re:old-fashioned methods by tverbeek · · Score: 1

      Since it's winter I almost forgot: In the summer, I open the windows at night, and close them during the day. My house usually stays cool enough that way that I don't need an air conditioner, and when it doesn't I just use an electric fan or two. And my lawn mower is a push-powered reel mower: a better cut, much lower cost, profoundly quieter... unfortunately it's not that hard to push, so I don't get the work-out I thought I would when I replaced the fume-belcher.

      --
      http://alternatives.rzero.com/
  109. choose what suits you best but don't suffer by WiFiBro · · Score: 1

    The best way would be to choose whatever measure makes you most happy.

    And keep things in perspective. For example, if you moved into town to be closer to work and save gasoline, but you hate to live in town and have to take more holidays in Hawaii.... well there goes your fuel saving.

    Then, there are some tools that can help you to choose which step is the most efficient for you; i like the 'ecological footprint'. It calculates the imaginary footprint you have on the world, by all your energy use, food use, etc. Of course the method is a bit weird, comparing energy use with food, clothes etc and converting that to hectares (or acres). So just use it as a guide.

    What amazed me was that eating vegetarian made a big difference. Since i don't mind eating less meat, that was an easy thing to do. Yes, I know, this may vary with other /.-ers, so save your finger energy. ;) (if you don't know how to cook without meat pls collect some nice recipes, average-american-food-with-meat-left-out is horrible).

    There is a popular biologist here who jokingly claims he can do whatever he likes to the environment because he did not take any children. He says, imagine how many diapers etc I saved...

    And since i also DON'T like children... hehehe...

    BTW I spoke to a Scottish transport expert and he told me not to worry about the worlds' oil use. He says oil will soon become so expensive that people will save on oil use anyway.

  110. My List by Shipwright · · Score: 1

    replace incandescent bulbs with CFs. Its the biggest-easiest win.

    My wife likes our old quaint crappy windows, so I've installed Smith&Noble insulated shades, which I keep closed on the north side of the house as much as possible, and keep open on the south side from 8:30 - 4 p.m., which really helps keep the furnace off on sunny days.

    I telecommute two days a week and carpool 48 of my 60 mile roundtrip to work the other three days. On the way home from carpooling I do the shopping to keep my wife from having to make the 12 mile roundtrip to town.

    For our farm-stuff and lumber-store trips we've got a big diesel pickup we run on biodiesel made with good old Virginia soybeans. Its a bit of a PITA but makes having 1.3 vehicles per person livable.

  111. Good and bad brands by Tau+Zero · · Score: 1
    I've had some work well, and some die early. My experience:
    • Lights of America: SUCK. They make a very pretty-looking 3-way circular-tube light, but when the tube goes bad the electronic ballast literally destroys itself trying to re-start it. I have literally four of them waiting for me to be able to find or make replacement shunt resistors; I have to watch the survivors carefully to make sure the tubes are replaced before they croak.
    • Feit Electric: SUCK. Three folded-tube integral-ballast units died in about a year in my bathroom.
    There have been some good points:
    • GE: GREAT. I have not had a single GE CF die on me yet.
    • I have some no-name Chinese brand in the bathroom now (no brand name on the bulbs themselves, I just checked). They've been there most of a year; so far, so good.
    How much life you get depends on the quality. I'd look for GE and stay away from LoA and Feit, and be careful about no-name brands.
    --
    Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once... the bitch.
  112. Coasting is better for fuel economy by Tau+Zero · · Score: 2, Informative
    Sorry, you're wrong. Take it from an automotive guy: the engine is controlling its fuel-air ratio to be stoichiometric for the catalytic converter. If you are turning the engine faster by driving it with the car, not only are you increasing the inertial forces on the pistons and the drag against the cylinder walls, but you are pulling more air past the throttle body and having to burn more fuel in it to maintain the correct mixture for pollution control. The only exception to this is if the engine computer recognizes the situation and cuts off fuel delivery to the engine; your car may or may not.

    Engine braking is going to save your brake pads and keep you from having brake fade due to overheating on long downgrades, of course. This hasn't been a factor for me in the last ten years; all of my cars have had either front or 4-wheel discs with good cooling, and unless I'm on a twisty 2-lane road I just put the car in neutral and let 'er rip. It's not often that you get a free roller-coaster ride!

    --
    Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once... the bitch.
    1. Re:Coasting is better for fuel economy by Zoyd · · Score: 1

      Engine braking is going to save your brake pads

      And it is going to put wear on your drivetrain.
      .

      and keep you from having brake fade due to overheating on long downgrades, of course. This hasn't been a factor for me in the last ten years

      Maybe it is because you have been driving a car and not a semi.
      .

      in the last ten years; all of my cars have had either front or 4-wheel discs with good cooling

      Drum brakes cool better than disc brakes. This is because drum brakes have greater surface area.
      .

      unless I'm on a twisty 2-lane road I just put the car in neutral and let 'er rip.

      This is illegal in most states.

    2. Re:Coasting is better for fuel economy by hcdejong · · Score: 1

      The only exception to this is if the engine computer recognizes the situation and cuts off fuel delivery to the engine; your car may or may not.

      AFAIK this feature has been widely used since the early '90s.

  113. Only if the downhill is steep enough by Tau+Zero · · Score: 1

    My car burns quite a bit less fuel going downhill in neutral than in gear (like, less than 1/3 as much according to the trip computer), but that is on hills which are not steep enough to need engine braking. If the hill is just steep enough to coast, you are better off cutting the engine speed to idle (cutting engine drag) and letting gravity do the work.

    --
    Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once... the bitch.
  114. They exist. by Tau+Zero · · Score: 1
    I haven't looked recently, but I may have seen them as recently as last month at Home Despot.

    And any CF that is dimmable will NOT have a magnetic ballast and will NOT flicker at 60 Hz. The electronic ballasts will switch at tens of kHz and will not have flicker you can detect without a chopper wheel or other equipment. Spectrum is another matter, but your eyes adjust to red light of sunset vs. blue light of the sky; what's the big deal? It won't give you eyestrain.

    --
    Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once... the bitch.
    1. Re:They exist. by gstoddart · · Score: 1
      Spectrum is another matter, but your eyes adjust to red light of sunset vs. blue light of the sky; what's the big deal? It won't give you eyestrain.

      Your eyes are evolved to see in those lighting conditions. There is something jarrinly un-natural about the spectra put off by fluorescents. They cast an evil actinic hshading to everything, and a lot of people despise it.

      I realize not all spectra are do-able with fluorescants, but I don't want lighting in my home that it going to cast that kind of light. Admittedly, I'm hoping to actually find some CFs that don't do this. But for low, warm-light fluorescant is usually a lousy attempt -- it's too stark and white (or blue, or pink).
      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:They exist. by Suidae · · Score: 1

      As far as color goes, quit buying $2 bulbs. Find something with a CRI (Color Rendering Index) in the 90's and you'll be fine. If you desperately need daylight balanced tubes, you can have them, but they'll cost you 40 bucks each. For 5 to 10 you can have a pretty pure white light, but you are not likely to find them at a hardware store. Look online, find a good bulb with a high CRI and buy a case of them. You'll like 'em, and if they are really high end models you can often sell 'em off to friends and ebay suckers for a profit.

  115. You could not be more wrong by Tau+Zero · · Score: 1
    Seriously, do you try to check anything before you spout off? Just in case, y'know, you might have been misinformed or be misremembering something?
    And it is going to put wear on your drivetrain.
    Applying torque to the wheels is its business, and forces inside the engine will be smaller than under power at the same RPM (little or no combustion forces).

    The 10-year old car I sold last year had 168,000 miles on it and still had excellent compression. It regularly went 5,000 miles between oil changes without needing to add oil.

    Maybe it is because you have been driving a car and not a semi.
    Semi trucks have drum brakes.
    Drum brakes cool better than disc brakes. This is because drum brakes have greater surface area.
    Bullshit. Double bullshit for ventilated or cross-drilled discs (there is no such thing as a drum brake with cooling passages through the drum). A quick search for "disc drum brake cooling" brings up "The major advantage of disc brakes over drum brakes is that ... they do not fade under wet conditions or when heated under heavy braking conditions." and "The main advantages of using brake discs instead of drum brakes are : * More resistant to brake fade * Better cooling efficiency"... You get the idea.
    This is illegal in most states.
    Let them prove it.
    --
    Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once... the bitch.
    1. Re:You could not be more wrong by Zoyd · · Score: 1
      Semi trucks have drum brakes.

      Semi trucks have undersized brakes relative to their gross vehicle weights, regardless of whether those brakes are disc or drum. Discs have been tried on semi trucks and have failed because of insufficient cooling power.
      .
      http://yarchive.net/car/drum_brakes.html

      Disks on trucks present enormous heat dissipation problems because
      there is insufficient area to cool them unless multiple disks are used
      as on railways where as many as four 400mm diameter 100mm disks are
      uses per axle of a passenger car. This is an enormous expense but is
      necessary because skidding is so hard to control with any other brake.
      There is nothing "traditional" about brakes on highly competitive long
      haul trucking. Multiple disks are not a viable option for trucks.


  116. Solution to Dimmable Fluorescents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have a couple in my house. The best way to deal with the annoying spectral effect is to either incase them in opaque glass, or in a lamp stand. This way the material aournd the bulb will smooth out the flicker.

    However they do produce an annoying sound, for which I have no solution but to ignore them.

  117. Not having children. by xtal · · Score: 1

    But that's not the most politically correct answer, is it?

    One needs to look at not just absolute energy consumption but the growth in energy consumption over the last 5 years. It's a difficult problem.

    --
    ..don't panic
  118. Commercial yields on oil-based fertilizers by xtal · · Score: 1

    A fact that is glazed over by advocates of commerical ethanol production from Corn. If you don't have modern fertilizers - which come from petroleum - then your yeilds drop.

    I haven't seen a good analysis of the whole corn / ethanol situation that assumed an organic fertilizing scheme that would scale to even 5% of the USA's petroleum consumption figures.

    The answer nobody wants to hear is there is plenty of coal for the next hundred years, and there's nuclear as well. Unless you actually looked at how much energy is consumed in the USA on a daily basis, you don't understand how bad the problem is.

    --
    ..don't panic
  119. Compact Fluorescent Light Bulbs by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    Why are they geeky? Are they new in the US?

    I don't think they are geeky. Then again I've been using them for years.

    Falcon
  120. being on-grid by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    Actually going off grid is getting to be more and more popular. If'en, if and when I build my own home that's what I plan on doing, going off grid.

    Falcon
    1. Re:being on-grid by MrResistor · · Score: 1

      There are definate advantages to both, but in most cases there's no reason you can't have it both ways. I would certainly build or modify as if I were off-grid, but the need for constant power management I can do without. Plus, with a phase-matching inverter you can actually be part of the over-all solution to our energy problems, and in a small way make the world better for everyone.

      Really, the only reason to go completely off-grid is if you live far enough out that you can't justify the expense of a hook-up. If that's not your situation, I don't recommend it.

      --
      Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
    2. Re:being on-grid by falconwolf · · Score: 1

      There are definate advantages to both, but in most cases there's no reason you can't have it both ways. I would certainly build or modify as if I were off-grid, but the need for constant power management I can do without. Plus, with a phase-matching inverter you can actually be part of the over-all solution to our energy problems, and in a small way make the world better for everyone.

      That's what I like about net metering, without using storage depending on the system configuration you can generate most of the electricity and when the system generates more than needed the rest goes back into the grid. If the system has some storage then when the grid suffers brownouts or blackouts you'll have some backup power. When California had the rolling blackouts a few years back though I don't recall what city it was I read some articles about how one city didn't suffer any because they produced alternative power themself. Then when the Northeast had that big blackout a few articles were about how some didn't suffer again because these people generated power as well.

      Really, the only reason to go completely off-grid is if you live far enough out that you can't justify the expense of a hook-up. If that's not your situation, I don't recommend it.

      That's why many people go off the grid, they build their home where no electricity is available and to have the cabling put in costs too much. Personally I had wanted to do that myself but now I don't even know where I'll be living more than about 5 years out. As it is now this semester is my last before I compleat the requirements for an associate degree in web programming, then I plan on transfering to a nearby university. There I'm planning on doing a multidisciplinary major with IT, IS, or Electrical Engineering as the base. After maybe three years, because of a disability I can only attend college parttyme I'll go to Brazil for a year through the university's study abroad program. Once I finish the degree I don't know what I'll do, though I'm thinking I might go back to Brazil and start a business there.

      Falcon
    3. Re:being on-grid by MrResistor · · Score: 1

      When California had the rolling blackouts a few years back though I don't recall what city it was I read some articles about how one city didn't suffer any because they produced alternative power themself. Then when the Northeast had that big blackout a few articles were about how some didn't suffer again because these people generated power as well.

      Yeah, my mom was pretty much unaffected. Even in winter, power outages aren't a problem for her. We still have our deep-cycle batteries hooked up, and as long as you check the fluid levels about once a month they last a long time, so even in winter there's enough juice to at least watch a couple of movies (I haven't lived there for several years now, so I'm not sure how newer appliances affect things), and if you go to bed early they'll last days.

      That's why many people go off the grid, they build their home where no electricity is available and to have the cabling put in costs too much.

      That was our situation. We didn't even have a phone til I was 7, and even then we had to run about a mile of our own line.

      I was in college when we finally hooked up to the grid. A neighbor wanted to turn his land into a home for alzheimers patients, and I guess being on-grid is a requirement for that sort of thing. He got a bunch of us to go together on it to spread out the cost. It wasc about $12k each IIRC, but it's hard to say no to someone who's been a good neighbor for 25 years, and it was about what we'd figured to upgrade to a 24v system with a few more panels, a true sine wave inverter, and a microhydro in our seasonal creek for winter generation.

      I should mention that the design and position of the house make a big difference. In my case, almost all our windows were on the south side of the house, to maximise the amount of heat and light we could collect during the winter, with a bunch of deciduous trees to provide shade in the summer (wild cherries, if you care). We didn't have the money for high quality windows, so it could have been a lot better, but it wasn't bad.

      --
      Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
    4. Re:being on-grid by falconwolf · · Score: 1

      I should mention that the design and position of the house make a big difference. In my case, almost all our windows were on the south side of the house, to maximise the amount of heat and light we could collect during the winter, with a bunch of deciduous trees to provide shade in the summer (wild cherries, if you care). We didn't have the money for high quality windows, so it could have been a lot better, but it wasn't bad.

      The design, orientation, and positioning or siting of homes has much to do with whether a system can deal with heating and cooling. Passive design principles can make or break such a system.

      Falcon
  121. colour of light by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    It's because our eyes are evolved to be most responsive to the yellow light of the sun, which incandescent bulbs emulate a little better.

    I can't say if this is true in general but in my case lower temperature lights, tending towards "cool" blue or around 7000K if I recall right are more agreeable to my eyes whereas "warmer" or redish lighting tends to hurt them. I much prefer the cooler lighting.

    Falcon
  122. Colors will never look quite right under fluoresce by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    In photgraphy, film at least, colors don't quite look right under incandescent lighting without taking extra steps. Well, under both really, incandscent lighting makes the photo yellowish whereas florescent lighting makes photos greenish.

    Falcon
  123. alternative fuels by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    To turn plants into something useable as fuel, however? It takes a few hours to a few months, depending on what you want.

    Rudolph Diesel designed his Diesel engine to run on a variety of fuels, especially vegetable and seed oils. One good source was hemp. Henry Ford himself built a vehicle on his Iron Mountain estate that not only was built using hemp but was also fueled by hemp, hemp he grew on his estate.

    Falcon
  124. Its hard to store electricity by maitas · · Score: 1

    In fact, who solve the electricity storage problem will get rich inmediately. Nowdays, there's no good alternative, as you can see at http://www.electricitystorage.org/
    For transportation I ise a byke-train combo for long distances. I save energy (after boats, trains are the cheapest transports) and get fit at once!

  125. Oh, I understand it by Engineer-Poet · · Score: 1
    The US consumes roughly 100 quads/year, or about 270 trillion BTU/day.

    Unless you have looked at how it is consumed, you don't understand where the points of leverage are. I've spent some time analyzing this; click on the blog link.

    1. Re:Oh, I understand it by pla · · Score: 1

      Unless you have looked at how it is consumed, you don't understand where the points of leverage are. I've spent some time analyzing this; click on the blog link.

      Fascinating blog - Consider me a new regular reader!

      However, I wonder about your comment here... You say that the corn->ethanol route gives a yield of 120% (1 BTU input gives 1.2 output)... Now, that may not seem like much, but compared with using petroleum, it still gives a net gain in a renewable manner, no?

      You make a lot of good points about the realistic normal use of car - That one with a range of 30mi would do for most situations. But people don't only drive to and from work. Myself, I visit family and friends in another state every month or two, a 300mi drive. Stopping 5-10 times to refuel would make that quite a lot more inconvenient than just filling up once before leaving and once before returning. And therein I see the use of renewable biofuels, such as corn-derived ethanol or vegetable oil based diesel (with ethanol the clear winner in terms of relative cleanness)... They have a large enough energy density (compared to batteries or even compressed hydrogen) to give a few hundred miles per refueling, with out wasting half their energy content to lug around their own weight.


      For more general use, though, such as actual electricity production, I agree completely that corn seems like a poor choice. Personally I like windmills and solar (photoelectric), since both count as basically "fire and forget" technologies. A little yearly maintenance, and they just do their thing for 20-30 years.


      However, something you don't seem to have mentioned in your blog... What do you think of photocatalytic hydrogen production? To me, that seems like an almost ideal solution to the three biggest problems with photoelectric solar, in that it has basically no equipment cost (just a small compressor and a modified propane-fired generator, basically), we can buffer hydrogen so it works at night as well as during the day, and with a mix of catalysts and a deep enough tank we can approach 100% efficient capturing of the entire available spectrum of sunlight.

    2. Re:Oh, I understand it by Engineer-Poet · · Score: 1
      You say that the corn->ethanol route gives a yield of 120% (1 BTU input gives 1.2 output)... Now, that may not seem like much, but compared with using petroleum, it still gives a net gain in a renewable manner, no?
      The more recent data says 1.34:1, but the issue is that the tax subsidy (52 cents/gallon) is given to the entire production of ethanol when only about 1/4 of its net energy is biologically and renewably produced; the rest is all fossil inputs, a fair amount of it from petroleum.

      This may make it worthwhile as a method of buying votes in farm states, but it does a miserable job of its putative goals:

      1. Making the US independent of imported oil.
      2. Reducing pollution (ethanol increases evaporative emissions in plastic fuel systems).
      3. Accomplishing the transition to a renewable economy.
      There are better ways of accomplishing those goals, and the concentration of tax subsidies on ethanol-from-corn directs effort in the wrong direction. The same is probably true of biodiesel subsidies.
      You make a lot of good points about the realistic normal use of car - That one with a range of 30mi would do for most situations. But people don't only drive to and from work.
      Please note that these cars are plug-in hybrids . They can only go so far on electricity alone, but they have no range limitations aside from the capacity of the fuel tank (hundreds of miles). The beauty is that a relatively small all-electric range is sufficient to eliminate a very large majority of most people's motor fuel use.
      What do you think of photocatalytic hydrogen production?
      It's nowhere near ready for prime time, but there ought to be a fair amount of research money devoted to it and other methods of artificial photosynthesis as well as general biology.

      Why it is so important? One breakthrough in photocatalysts and another in the manufacture of products derived from extremophile microorganisms (for instance, imagine a hydrogen fuel-cell catalyst which can stand temperatures hotter than boiling water and can be made from cheap materials by bugs in big vats) could eliminate the oil-producing countries as political, military and social forces almost overnight.

  126. You're using bad economics by Engineer-Poet · · Score: 1
    All conservation does it make the energy source last longer it does not solve the under lying problem.
    Conservation also reduces the amount of energy which has to be supplied by whatever source, and thus the cost of switching. Depending on the source of energy, conservation can be several times cheaper than attempting to increase supply.
  127. freedom by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    Terrorists can attack freedom, but only Congress can destroy it.

    And the president. And this president is doing a good job at it.

    Falcon
  128. bike riding in Florida by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    Huh. Over here in sunny Florida, the fucktards in traffic manage to ruin life for everyone, pedestrian, cyclist or motorist.

    I know what you mean, when I lived in Orlando I rode my bike 200+ miles a week until my last accident. Yes, last, as in that last year I had three accidents. While I was in a coma the docs told my family it'd be a miracle if I lived. NOT!!! Come to find out the person who hit me had a warrant out for his arrest in Mass where he had a record of causing accidents.

    Falcon
  129. electromagnetic fields by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    If electromagnetic fields are a health risk, we're in big trouble. The Earth has one. A big one.

    We'd be in even bigger trouble if it stopped.

    Anybody got Unobtainium?

    Falcon
  130. considering geo thermal heat pump. by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    I have already done much of what others have suggested here, so looking at alternatives.

    I have been thinking about putting in a geo-thermal heat pump. Very efficient. right now, I have a natural gas furnace which was awesome in price; until they finished the pipeline from colorado to california about 2 years ago. Then the price rose. With the heat pump, I can run it as furnace/AC year around and still pay less than 50 / month for energy.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  131. Do better than that at the grocery store, plus... by Randym · · Score: 1
    I'm always amazed at how many plastic (or paper) bags the grocer insists on giving me every week

    Don't be so passive. Bring your own bag - either an old large paper bag (some stores will give you a credit for doing so) or [better] a canvas bag which can be reused almost endlessly.

    As to the other things, all of which will both cost less and improve your lifestyle:

    Replace all incadescent lights with the new fluorescents (those twisty looking ones) -- they use about 1/3 of the power, but give off 90% of the light.

    Make sure your computer monitor is EnergyStar compliant.

    Insulate your house, so you use less energy heating it.

    Don't watch TV. Read a book instead.

    Raise your own food; thus, you will drive to the store less often (as well as getting more exercise).

    Get a smaller and/or more energy efficient refrigerator.

    Turn off lights and appliances which are not being used.

    Set your thermostat lower, and wear sweaters to compensate.

    These are all common sense ideas that *I* personally have used. I've saved 30% on my various utility bills.

    --
    DNA is a Turing machine. You, however, being dynamic and emergent, are not.
  132. You still could not be more wrong by Tau+Zero · · Score: 1
    Ah. So one person's opinion in a Usenet series is gospel? And did you notice that he was also talking about high-speed trains?

    I notice that he claimed to have worked for Porsche, but he did not mention that Porsche won a number of races right after introducing disc brakes because... their brakes cooled much better and left them more braking power, allowing the drivers to pass other cars while diving into curves before having to slow down themselves.

    Finally, your statement "you have been driving a car and not a semi" is irrelevant. Drum brakes on cars have been known to overheat and fade during mountain descents. This problem is known to be much smaller with disc brakes, which have cooling air flowing directly over their braking surfaces (as well as through any internal cooling passages). You can't do that with a drum, period. Your statement "Drum brakes cool better than disc brakes" is simply WRONG.

    --
    Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once... the bitch.