Domain: altavista.com
Stories and comments across the archive that link to altavista.com.
Comments · 1,157
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Re:First Generation Tech ?Some info can be found at
http://www.dynabook.com/pc/catalog/shuhen/mhdd/mh
d 005.htmOr see babel translated page.
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Re:the crucial difference wrt google
There are some product available:
Enterprise Search:
"With world-class functionality and development tools to power search on the enterprise intranet, AV Enterprise Search is optimized to search unstructured data, in environments with high security needs and multiple data sources. Built on the same scalable architecture that powers millions of queries per day on the AltaVista network , AV Enterprise Search offers the functionality, reliability, scalability, and customizability required to meet the most sophisticated intranet search demands."
But should we really trust Altavista to search the whole company? -
Nuclear Material
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Yikes.From the article on translators:
The military is looking at using the system for many of its operations in foreign countries, Palmquist notes. "It is very intimidating when a Marine carrying a gun comes up to a civilian and asks a question and the civilian can't understand it," he says. "If you could more easily communicate with that person, a lot of tension is relieved. There is a certain benefit when the military is able to communicate with the local populace."
Imagine a heavily armed marine striding up to you, asking you a question, and depending on a machine to translate the response. Would any us who have used babelfish want our lives to depend on this technolgy? Yikes. The only question would be, should I just keep my mouth shut, or should I run like hell?
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Thank you, BabelfishHere is the first paragraph of the fish's 'translation' of the article (my emphasis):
Warning against open SOURCE project kIllustrator
The law office pure hard Skuhra way & partner warned the University of Magdeburg. Reason of the warning is those homepage of the university...
Out of the mouths of babes and, ah, automata comes forth wisdom...
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Thank you, BabelfishHere is the first paragraph of the fish's 'translation' of the article (my emphasis):
Warning against open SOURCE project kIllustrator
The law office pure hard Skuhra way & partner warned the University of Magdeburg. Reason of the warning is those homepage of the university...
Out of the mouths of babes and, ah, automata comes forth wisdom...
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Try these other services.
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Altavista has a search.Altavista already does this.
D
Mad Scientists with too much time on thier hands -
Re:Beta image searching tech!
Innovative? Hasn't Altavista had this forever? Check out this image search on Slashdot.
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Re:Prepositions need love too
Now bear in mind that Google couldn't even come up with the phrase, however much I +'d it to death, on its top ten list. If I only have that one phrase in memory on Google, I can't find it.
Wow, that's so informative! (uh, that wasn't sarcastic) It doesn't actually
The problem is that you +'ed it too much. If you search for +"+but +that +the +dread" you'll notice that it gives you some warnings. Google's ignoring all of the +'s you added, because you're using some of them incorrectly. ("dread" is not a stop word, for example)
Instead, try searching for "but +that +the dread". Then you'll get what you're looking for.
/say/ it's ignoring them, it just says some of them are redundant. Thanks!
I wanted to make sure that it was still a phrase search, though, and the sites didn't just come up because but, that, the, and dread were "kinda near" each other or all there or something. Removing the quotation marks (so it's not a phrase search) gets me irrelevant pages. Rearranging the words WITHIN the quotation marks gets me irrelevant pages. So far so good. Now I search for something very obscure to get a phrase to phrase-quote. I downloaded the complete works of william shakespeare (etext -- other formats ) [1]
First I wanted to use only stop words (hehe. I got the list from most common words in English.)
Now I wrote a program (C++ unfortunately, I don't know perl :( ) to go through the text file word-by-word, resetting a CurrentPhrase and CurrentNumWords whenever it passes a word that isn't one of these:"of a to in is that it for was on are as with at be this from I by what", and possibly setting HighPhrase to be CurrentPhrase if the CurrentNumWords is more than the HighestNumWords. Thus, at the end, we'll end up with a HighPhrase that has the most number of words in a row taken only from these allowed words. The phrase it ends up with? "from what it is to a", which grepping shaks12.txt I find at:
"
Oph. Could beauty, my lord, have better commerce than with honesty?
Ham. Ay, truly; for the power of beauty will sooner transform
honesty from what it is to a bawd than the force of honesty can
translate beauty into his likeness. This was sometime a paradox,
but now the time gives it proof. I did love you once.
Oph. Indeed, my lord, you made me believe so.
"
Now first I try altavista: +"from what it is to a", which instantly (~ 1 second) spits back "We found 45 results:" including what looks like lots of hamlet. Now -hamlet
+"from what it is to a" -hamlet:
We found 10 results:
Now google. First I tried: +"+from +what +it +is +to +a" which sputtered for such a long time loading that I thought I would get back "your search took too long, please make it more specific." (which had happened to me before). But waiting patiently, I got:
"Results 1 - 10 of about 39. Search took 30.45 seconds" (which mostly look like they're from Hamlet, too)
I was thinking, wow, I'd never had a search take that long. It was probably because these search words are rarely if ever asked for together so that their intersections were hardly cached at all. Next, I wanted to make sure that most of the 39 were relevant, so:
+"+from +what +it +is +to +a" -hamlet
Brings: Results 1 - 1 of 1. Search took 30.54 seconds
I was surprised it took this long again, since I would think it would have had my results cached from the first time around. When I hit the search button again, it only took 0.31 seconds to come up with the same results.
Anyway, what does this prove? Altavista is STILL better at phrase searching: google missed 9 things with the phrase "from what it is to a" but without Hamlet. (Apparently this means it didn't miss any WITH hamlet because Google's 39 original hits + 9 missed non-hamlet ones = Altavista's 45 hits). Plus, Altavista answered instantly and google took >30 seconds. What does this prove? That Altavista is better for phrase searching, even when you obey all of Google's tempersome rules. :)
Robert Viragh
[1]FYI, this is 5.2 megabytes, and gets paginated into 2184 pages in M$ Word, 10-sized font. At 50 non-blank lines per page, if Shakespeare had been productive for 50 years, working 16 hours a day 6 days a week, he would have been able to spend 2.2 hours on each line.* Prolific my ass. On the other hand, there is not a line of his you could find that has not been specifically, actively considered for at least half an hour in total by a single scholar. Of course not all of them are interested in all of Shakespeare. I am not so obsessed with him as I appear to be either. Only actually read a few of his plays, and a relatively small percent of the ones I was SUPPOSED to in school.
*Numbers: 50 years * 52 weeks * 6 days per week * 26 hours per week = 249,600 hours. 2184 pages * 50 lines per page = 109200. Divide the two answers = 2.2 hours per line.)
~ -
Re:Prepositions need love too
Now bear in mind that Google couldn't even come up with the phrase, however much I +'d it to death, on its top ten list. If I only have that one phrase in memory on Google, I can't find it.
Wow, that's so informative! (uh, that wasn't sarcastic) It doesn't actually
The problem is that you +'ed it too much. If you search for +"+but +that +the +dread" you'll notice that it gives you some warnings. Google's ignoring all of the +'s you added, because you're using some of them incorrectly. ("dread" is not a stop word, for example)
Instead, try searching for "but +that +the dread". Then you'll get what you're looking for.
/say/ it's ignoring them, it just says some of them are redundant. Thanks!
I wanted to make sure that it was still a phrase search, though, and the sites didn't just come up because but, that, the, and dread were "kinda near" each other or all there or something. Removing the quotation marks (so it's not a phrase search) gets me irrelevant pages. Rearranging the words WITHIN the quotation marks gets me irrelevant pages. So far so good. Now I search for something very obscure to get a phrase to phrase-quote. I downloaded the complete works of william shakespeare (etext -- other formats ) [1]
First I wanted to use only stop words (hehe. I got the list from most common words in English.)
Now I wrote a program (C++ unfortunately, I don't know perl :( ) to go through the text file word-by-word, resetting a CurrentPhrase and CurrentNumWords whenever it passes a word that isn't one of these:"of a to in is that it for was on are as with at be this from I by what", and possibly setting HighPhrase to be CurrentPhrase if the CurrentNumWords is more than the HighestNumWords. Thus, at the end, we'll end up with a HighPhrase that has the most number of words in a row taken only from these allowed words. The phrase it ends up with? "from what it is to a", which grepping shaks12.txt I find at:
"
Oph. Could beauty, my lord, have better commerce than with honesty?
Ham. Ay, truly; for the power of beauty will sooner transform
honesty from what it is to a bawd than the force of honesty can
translate beauty into his likeness. This was sometime a paradox,
but now the time gives it proof. I did love you once.
Oph. Indeed, my lord, you made me believe so.
"
Now first I try altavista: +"from what it is to a", which instantly (~ 1 second) spits back "We found 45 results:" including what looks like lots of hamlet. Now -hamlet
+"from what it is to a" -hamlet:
We found 10 results:
Now google. First I tried: +"+from +what +it +is +to +a" which sputtered for such a long time loading that I thought I would get back "your search took too long, please make it more specific." (which had happened to me before). But waiting patiently, I got:
"Results 1 - 10 of about 39. Search took 30.45 seconds" (which mostly look like they're from Hamlet, too)
I was thinking, wow, I'd never had a search take that long. It was probably because these search words are rarely if ever asked for together so that their intersections were hardly cached at all. Next, I wanted to make sure that most of the 39 were relevant, so:
+"+from +what +it +is +to +a" -hamlet
Brings: Results 1 - 1 of 1. Search took 30.54 seconds
I was surprised it took this long again, since I would think it would have had my results cached from the first time around. When I hit the search button again, it only took 0.31 seconds to come up with the same results.
Anyway, what does this prove? Altavista is STILL better at phrase searching: google missed 9 things with the phrase "from what it is to a" but without Hamlet. (Apparently this means it didn't miss any WITH hamlet because Google's 39 original hits + 9 missed non-hamlet ones = Altavista's 45 hits). Plus, Altavista answered instantly and google took >30 seconds. What does this prove? That Altavista is better for phrase searching, even when you obey all of Google's tempersome rules. :)
Robert Viragh
[1]FYI, this is 5.2 megabytes, and gets paginated into 2184 pages in M$ Word, 10-sized font. At 50 non-blank lines per page, if Shakespeare had been productive for 50 years, working 16 hours a day 6 days a week, he would have been able to spend 2.2 hours on each line.* Prolific my ass. On the other hand, there is not a line of his you could find that has not been specifically, actively considered for at least half an hour in total by a single scholar. Of course not all of them are interested in all of Shakespeare. I am not so obsessed with him as I appear to be either. Only actually read a few of his plays, and a relatively small percent of the ones I was SUPPOSED to in school.
*Numbers: 50 years * 52 weeks * 6 days per week * 26 hours per week = 249,600 hours. 2184 pages * 50 lines per page = 109200. Divide the two answers = 2.2 hours per line.)
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All your SlashDot belong to us
Several hours into the outage withdrawals started
to set in and I knew I had to do something!
By chance, I found Japan's /. site.
Buried on that page, I caught a
posting about the US /. being down:
http://slashdot.ne.jp/article.pl?sid=01/06/24/06 32 234&mode=thread&threshold=
And ran it thru babelfish for a laugh...
The first comment is titled: "It knocks down Internet, rubbing, it
does,"
ROFL!!!!
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Re:Prepositions need love too
It says it's ignoring them, but the top few "hits" typically do include the exact page. I just tried, for instance, "All your base are belong to us". It claims to ignore "are" and "to" but the top few hits contain the exact phrase. (The same happens with your example "Hail to the chief", though it says it's ignoring "to the".)
You're such an f'ing troll, I was about to say anonymously, but then how can you have such a low ID? Sigh. Here goes my rant.
"I tried, for instance, 'All your base are belong to us'." Yeah. Uh-huh. That phrase is so frequent that if I hear "base belong" I think of that phrase. Hell: here's the word belong on google. Four of the top ten searches, including the top two, highlight "belong" in the full phrase "all your base are belong to us" visible in the summary. What were you smoking? Man.
My point, dear rsidd, just so I'm not being flamebait, is that if you want to see how Google treats your phrases, pick a random phrase out of a book you know is an etext, not too common, and see if you can find that etext based on that short word. Let's say you remember the phrase "but that the dread" of something after death, but you're only sure of the first part. What's this from? (Hamlet's soliloquy. "Who would fardels bear...but that the dread of something after death...puzzles [paralyzes] the will [to end the bad things] and makes us rather bear those ills we have than fly to others we know not of....")
Now look here:
+"+but +that +the +dread"
Returns:
"Results 1 - 10 of about 3,410"
(none of these includes the phrase I searched on.)
Now this:
+"+but +that +the +dread" -Hamlet -Shakespeare
Returns:
"Results 1 - 10 of about 2,480"
In other words, after I make sure that Hamlet's quotation was not just lurking on another page past the first ten that I looked at, I saw how many pages of the 3,410 could possibly have to do with the quotation I was looking for. Only 930 (subtract above).
Now let's look at a full-fledged full-text search engine, Altavista. (no affiliation, but I use altavista whenever I need a phrase and don't care how popular or "valued" the site is that it appears on--do you know that Google adjusts importance based on how much linkage a site gets on other sites? This doesn't mesh with phrase-based searching.)
Anyway,
"but that the dread"
on altavista returns, not surprisingly, a top ten pages that EACH (every one of the ten) reference Hamlet's soliloquy. (Althoguh one is a satire including the phrase and being about a cat. It begins
"To go outside, and there perchance to stay
Or to remain within: that is the question:" and includes the phrase I searched on).
Total number of search results returned with the above search?
"We found 434 results:"
Now bear in mind that Google couldn't even come up with the phrase, however much I +'d it to death, on its top ten list. If I only have that one phrase in memory on Google, I can't find it. Period. But what if I want more power than just that. What if I wasn't just looking for it (because if I had been, I might include words like "play" or "shakespeare", which I could reasonably guess is where I got the phrase stuck in my mind from), but rather, for instance, wanted to know how many times anyone on the Internet (that a search engine indexes) has used the words "but that the dread", except in quoting Shakespeare. Therefore, the following progression. (After each one, I looked at the top ten pages and added a phrase to eliminate one or more of them).
"but that the dread"
We found 434 results:
"but that the dread" -Hamlet -Shakespeare
We found 65 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare (lowercase this time, because Altavista treates uppercase as forced-uppercase and lowercase as either.)
We found 48 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare -"that is the question" (Still fairly clearly an allusion to Shakespeare.)
We found 13 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare -"that is the question" -"whether 'tis"
We found 8 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare -"that is the question" -"whether 'tis" -"undiscover'd country"
We found 7 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare -"that is the question" -"whether 'tis" -"undiscover'd country" -"undiscovered country"
We found 4 results:
The four results?- From http://www.lang.nagoya-u.ac.jp/~matsuoka/EG-Clare
. html:
"
The sound seemed taken out of her voice; it was husky as the notes on an old harpsichord when the strings have ceased to vibrate. She read her answer in my face, I suppose, for I could not speak. Her look was one of intense fear, but that died away into an aspect of most humble patience. At length she seemed to force herself to face behind and around her: she saw the purple moors, the blue distant hills, quivering in the sunlight, but nothing else.
'Will you take me home?' she said meekly.
I took her by the hand, and led her silently through the budding heather - we dared not speak; for we could not tell but that the dread creature was listening, although unseen - but that IT might appear and push us asunder. I never loved her more fondly than now when - and that was the unspeakable misery - the idea of her was becoming so inextricably blended with the shuddering thought of IT. She seemed to understand what I must be feeling. She let go my hand, which she had kept clasped until then, when we reached the garden gate, and went forwards to meet her anxious friend, who was standing by the window looking for her. I could not enter the house: I needed silence, society, leisure, change - I knew not what - to shake off the sensation of that creature's presence. Yet I lingered about the garden - I hardly know why; partly, I suppose, because I feared to encounter the resemblance again on the solitary common, where it had vanished, and partly from a feeling of inexpressible compassion for Lucy. In a few minutes Mistress Clarke came forth and joined me. We walked some paces in silence.
"
- From http://www.clareweb.com/eolas/coclare/history/dut
t on_su rvey/dutton_survey_chapter5.5.htm:
"
Mr. Ledwich, in his Epitome of the Antiquities of Ireland, says, that in the reign of King John the clergy did not receive any tithes; the veneration for the church at that time was so great, that regulations were unnecessary; they were supported by oblations. The piety of modern times, I fear, would influence but very small collections. The whole ecclesiastical revenue to a late period was divided into four parts, one to the Bishop, one to the clergy, one to the poor, and one to support the church and other uses, and he says this mode exists at this day in the diocese of Clonfert.
To throw as much light on this subject as possible, I shall make a few extracts from Mr. Rawson's admirable Survey of Kildare, lately published. In page 27 he mentions one tithe-dealer having exacted thirty shillings per acre for wheat;** "the dread of citation, and the loss of his straw, made the timorous ploughman yield to any terms." Again, page 31, "It must appear evident to every man, that the entire weight of the church establishment falls on the sweat from the brow of industry, whilst the feeder of one thousand bullocks does not pay as much as the herdsman for his garden. Can it be denied, but that the dread of tithe keeps much land in pasture, which would otherwise give bread to thousands, encrease population twenty-fold, do away all necessity of emigration, and make little Ireland not only a granary to England, but to the whole world." In page 33, and which deserves peculiar attention, "The assertors, that the titles to tithes and to estates are of equal strength, should consider that, if estates were to be let at undefined rents from year to year, and the landlord at each harvest to view the crops and exact some proportion in lieu of rent, would any occupier in such case be anxious to till or improve? Would not the kingdom soon become a dreary uninhabited waste? Yet exactly such is the conduct towards the tenth of the produce, the tithe. Let the land-holder be ascertained at what yearly rent he is to pay for one and the other, and all complaint is at an end.[...]
"
- From http://www.victorybaptist.org/books/johnbunyan/fe
a rofgod/part1.htm:
"
3. Add to this the revelation of God's goodness, and it must needs make his presence dreadful to us; for when a poor defiled creature shall see that this great God hath, notwithstanding his greatness, goodness in his heart, and mercy to bestow upon him: this makes his presence yet the more dreadful. They "shall fear the Lord and his goodness" (Hosea 3:5). The goodness as well as the greatness of God doth beget in the heart of his elect an awful reverence of his majesty. "Fear ye not me? saith the Lord; will ye not tremble at my presence?" And then, to engage us in our soul to the duty, he adds one of his wonderful mercies to the world, for a motive, "Fear ye not me?" Why, who are thou? He answers, Even I, "which have" set, or "placed the sand for the bound of the sea by a perpetual decree, that it cannot pass it; and though the waves thereof toss themselves, yet can they not prevail; though they roar, yet can they not pass over it?" (Jer 5:22). Also, when Job had God present with him, making manifest the goodness of his great heart to him, what doth he say? how doth he behave himself in his presence? "I have heard of thee," says he, "by the hearing of the ear, but now mine eye seeth thee; wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes" (Job 42:5,6).
And what mean the tremblings, the tears, those breakings and shakings of heart that attend the people of God, when in an eminent manner they receive the pronunciation of the forgiveness of sins at his mouth, but that the dread of the majesty of God is in their sight mixed therewith? God must appear like himself, speak to the soul like himself; nor can the sinner, when under these glorious discoveries of his Lord and Saviour, keep out the beams of his majesty from the eyes of his understanding. "I will cleanse them," saith he, "from all their iniquity, whereby they have sinned against me, and I will pardon all their iniquities whereby they have sinned, and whereby they have transgressed against me." And what then? "And they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness, and for all the prosperity that I procure unto it" (Jer 33:8,9). Alas! there is a company of poor, light, frothy professors in the world, that carry it under that which they call the presence of God, more like to antics, than sober sensible Christians; yea, more like to a fool of a play, than those that have the presence of God. They would not carry it so in the presence of a king, nor yet of the lord of their land, were they but receivers of mercy at his hand. They carry it even in their most eminent seasons, as if the sense and sight of God, and his blessed grace to their souls in Christ, had a tendency in them to make men wanton: but indeed it is the most humbling and heart-breaking sight in the world; it is fearful.
"
- From http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~turing/T/003397
. html:
"
But that the dread of someone else could win that game, puzzles the will and makes us rather bear those ills we have. Thus conscience does make cowards of us all; and thus the native hue of resolution is sicklied over with the pale cast of thought, and enterprises of great pith and moment. With this regard their currents turn awry, and lose the name of action.
"
(This last attempts to quote the original, except the phrase "could win the game".)
This startling conclusion is one that you could not find with Google, which could not even be bothered to find for you where the phrase "but that the dread" comes from. Apparently each of Altavista's 434 original results, except these latter three, are correct positives. (In the sense that the phrase is from the context in which I heard it, as a part of a soliloquy in Hamlet.)
I used to use Altavista and was sad to hear at a conference held by some technology head at it here in Boston, that lots of people only use Altavista as a "backup" in case Google can't find what they're looking for. He was very proud of the idea that Altavista didn't have what he called "stop words" (Google's "the" "a", etc), but rather full-text indexing. (He did mention that only the first 378K of a text were indexed or something, but I think any document that long is also avaialable for download somewhere in chapters...). Anyway at that time I was saddened that Altavista wasn't doing too well, it was what I used, since it seemed like it had an expert, powerful system. (With such conveniences as a NEAR keyword to show that two phrases mustn't just occur within the same document but within several words of each other. The back-end, but not the user interface, he told some of us afterward over refreshments, was fully Regular Expression, and an expert user could combine things like boolean operators with NEAR and a few other keywords (up to an impressive depth) to get basically any query she wanted.
Today I use Google because, chances are, the site that I'm interested in is the one other people are interested in who know about that subject. (From Google's site:
"
PageRank Explained
PageRank relies on the uniquely democratic nature of the web by using its vast link structure as an indicator of an individual page's value. In essence, Google interprets a link from page A to page B as a vote, by page A, for page B. But, Google looks at more than the sheer volume of votes, or links a page receives; it also analyzes the page that casts the vote. Votes cast by pages that are themselves "important" weigh more heavily and help to make other pages "important."
Important, high-quality sites receive a higher PageRank, which Google remembers each time it conducts a search. Of course, important pages mean nothing to you if they don't match your query. So, Google combines PageRank with sophisticated text-matching techniques to find pages that are both important and relevant to your search. Google goes far beyond the number of times a term appears on a page and examines all aspects of the page's content (and the content of the pages linking to it) to determine if it's a good match for your query.
")
Which of course is usually exactly what I want. Unless I have a phrase stuck in my mind like "but that the dread". In that case, like those upon whom I frowned a year or two upon, I head over to Altavista "as a last resort after Google fails" (sigh) and use it's all-but RegEx features.
Robert Viragh.
~ - From http://www.lang.nagoya-u.ac.jp/~matsuoka/EG-Clare
-
Re:Prepositions need love too
It says it's ignoring them, but the top few "hits" typically do include the exact page. I just tried, for instance, "All your base are belong to us". It claims to ignore "are" and "to" but the top few hits contain the exact phrase. (The same happens with your example "Hail to the chief", though it says it's ignoring "to the".)
You're such an f'ing troll, I was about to say anonymously, but then how can you have such a low ID? Sigh. Here goes my rant.
"I tried, for instance, 'All your base are belong to us'." Yeah. Uh-huh. That phrase is so frequent that if I hear "base belong" I think of that phrase. Hell: here's the word belong on google. Four of the top ten searches, including the top two, highlight "belong" in the full phrase "all your base are belong to us" visible in the summary. What were you smoking? Man.
My point, dear rsidd, just so I'm not being flamebait, is that if you want to see how Google treats your phrases, pick a random phrase out of a book you know is an etext, not too common, and see if you can find that etext based on that short word. Let's say you remember the phrase "but that the dread" of something after death, but you're only sure of the first part. What's this from? (Hamlet's soliloquy. "Who would fardels bear...but that the dread of something after death...puzzles [paralyzes] the will [to end the bad things] and makes us rather bear those ills we have than fly to others we know not of....")
Now look here:
+"+but +that +the +dread"
Returns:
"Results 1 - 10 of about 3,410"
(none of these includes the phrase I searched on.)
Now this:
+"+but +that +the +dread" -Hamlet -Shakespeare
Returns:
"Results 1 - 10 of about 2,480"
In other words, after I make sure that Hamlet's quotation was not just lurking on another page past the first ten that I looked at, I saw how many pages of the 3,410 could possibly have to do with the quotation I was looking for. Only 930 (subtract above).
Now let's look at a full-fledged full-text search engine, Altavista. (no affiliation, but I use altavista whenever I need a phrase and don't care how popular or "valued" the site is that it appears on--do you know that Google adjusts importance based on how much linkage a site gets on other sites? This doesn't mesh with phrase-based searching.)
Anyway,
"but that the dread"
on altavista returns, not surprisingly, a top ten pages that EACH (every one of the ten) reference Hamlet's soliloquy. (Althoguh one is a satire including the phrase and being about a cat. It begins
"To go outside, and there perchance to stay
Or to remain within: that is the question:" and includes the phrase I searched on).
Total number of search results returned with the above search?
"We found 434 results:"
Now bear in mind that Google couldn't even come up with the phrase, however much I +'d it to death, on its top ten list. If I only have that one phrase in memory on Google, I can't find it. Period. But what if I want more power than just that. What if I wasn't just looking for it (because if I had been, I might include words like "play" or "shakespeare", which I could reasonably guess is where I got the phrase stuck in my mind from), but rather, for instance, wanted to know how many times anyone on the Internet (that a search engine indexes) has used the words "but that the dread", except in quoting Shakespeare. Therefore, the following progression. (After each one, I looked at the top ten pages and added a phrase to eliminate one or more of them).
"but that the dread"
We found 434 results:
"but that the dread" -Hamlet -Shakespeare
We found 65 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare (lowercase this time, because Altavista treates uppercase as forced-uppercase and lowercase as either.)
We found 48 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare -"that is the question" (Still fairly clearly an allusion to Shakespeare.)
We found 13 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare -"that is the question" -"whether 'tis"
We found 8 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare -"that is the question" -"whether 'tis" -"undiscover'd country"
We found 7 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare -"that is the question" -"whether 'tis" -"undiscover'd country" -"undiscovered country"
We found 4 results:
The four results?- From http://www.lang.nagoya-u.ac.jp/~matsuoka/EG-Clare
. html:
"
The sound seemed taken out of her voice; it was husky as the notes on an old harpsichord when the strings have ceased to vibrate. She read her answer in my face, I suppose, for I could not speak. Her look was one of intense fear, but that died away into an aspect of most humble patience. At length she seemed to force herself to face behind and around her: she saw the purple moors, the blue distant hills, quivering in the sunlight, but nothing else.
'Will you take me home?' she said meekly.
I took her by the hand, and led her silently through the budding heather - we dared not speak; for we could not tell but that the dread creature was listening, although unseen - but that IT might appear and push us asunder. I never loved her more fondly than now when - and that was the unspeakable misery - the idea of her was becoming so inextricably blended with the shuddering thought of IT. She seemed to understand what I must be feeling. She let go my hand, which she had kept clasped until then, when we reached the garden gate, and went forwards to meet her anxious friend, who was standing by the window looking for her. I could not enter the house: I needed silence, society, leisure, change - I knew not what - to shake off the sensation of that creature's presence. Yet I lingered about the garden - I hardly know why; partly, I suppose, because I feared to encounter the resemblance again on the solitary common, where it had vanished, and partly from a feeling of inexpressible compassion for Lucy. In a few minutes Mistress Clarke came forth and joined me. We walked some paces in silence.
"
- From http://www.clareweb.com/eolas/coclare/history/dut
t on_su rvey/dutton_survey_chapter5.5.htm:
"
Mr. Ledwich, in his Epitome of the Antiquities of Ireland, says, that in the reign of King John the clergy did not receive any tithes; the veneration for the church at that time was so great, that regulations were unnecessary; they were supported by oblations. The piety of modern times, I fear, would influence but very small collections. The whole ecclesiastical revenue to a late period was divided into four parts, one to the Bishop, one to the clergy, one to the poor, and one to support the church and other uses, and he says this mode exists at this day in the diocese of Clonfert.
To throw as much light on this subject as possible, I shall make a few extracts from Mr. Rawson's admirable Survey of Kildare, lately published. In page 27 he mentions one tithe-dealer having exacted thirty shillings per acre for wheat;** "the dread of citation, and the loss of his straw, made the timorous ploughman yield to any terms." Again, page 31, "It must appear evident to every man, that the entire weight of the church establishment falls on the sweat from the brow of industry, whilst the feeder of one thousand bullocks does not pay as much as the herdsman for his garden. Can it be denied, but that the dread of tithe keeps much land in pasture, which would otherwise give bread to thousands, encrease population twenty-fold, do away all necessity of emigration, and make little Ireland not only a granary to England, but to the whole world." In page 33, and which deserves peculiar attention, "The assertors, that the titles to tithes and to estates are of equal strength, should consider that, if estates were to be let at undefined rents from year to year, and the landlord at each harvest to view the crops and exact some proportion in lieu of rent, would any occupier in such case be anxious to till or improve? Would not the kingdom soon become a dreary uninhabited waste? Yet exactly such is the conduct towards the tenth of the produce, the tithe. Let the land-holder be ascertained at what yearly rent he is to pay for one and the other, and all complaint is at an end.[...]
"
- From http://www.victorybaptist.org/books/johnbunyan/fe
a rofgod/part1.htm:
"
3. Add to this the revelation of God's goodness, and it must needs make his presence dreadful to us; for when a poor defiled creature shall see that this great God hath, notwithstanding his greatness, goodness in his heart, and mercy to bestow upon him: this makes his presence yet the more dreadful. They "shall fear the Lord and his goodness" (Hosea 3:5). The goodness as well as the greatness of God doth beget in the heart of his elect an awful reverence of his majesty. "Fear ye not me? saith the Lord; will ye not tremble at my presence?" And then, to engage us in our soul to the duty, he adds one of his wonderful mercies to the world, for a motive, "Fear ye not me?" Why, who are thou? He answers, Even I, "which have" set, or "placed the sand for the bound of the sea by a perpetual decree, that it cannot pass it; and though the waves thereof toss themselves, yet can they not prevail; though they roar, yet can they not pass over it?" (Jer 5:22). Also, when Job had God present with him, making manifest the goodness of his great heart to him, what doth he say? how doth he behave himself in his presence? "I have heard of thee," says he, "by the hearing of the ear, but now mine eye seeth thee; wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes" (Job 42:5,6).
And what mean the tremblings, the tears, those breakings and shakings of heart that attend the people of God, when in an eminent manner they receive the pronunciation of the forgiveness of sins at his mouth, but that the dread of the majesty of God is in their sight mixed therewith? God must appear like himself, speak to the soul like himself; nor can the sinner, when under these glorious discoveries of his Lord and Saviour, keep out the beams of his majesty from the eyes of his understanding. "I will cleanse them," saith he, "from all their iniquity, whereby they have sinned against me, and I will pardon all their iniquities whereby they have sinned, and whereby they have transgressed against me." And what then? "And they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness, and for all the prosperity that I procure unto it" (Jer 33:8,9). Alas! there is a company of poor, light, frothy professors in the world, that carry it under that which they call the presence of God, more like to antics, than sober sensible Christians; yea, more like to a fool of a play, than those that have the presence of God. They would not carry it so in the presence of a king, nor yet of the lord of their land, were they but receivers of mercy at his hand. They carry it even in their most eminent seasons, as if the sense and sight of God, and his blessed grace to their souls in Christ, had a tendency in them to make men wanton: but indeed it is the most humbling and heart-breaking sight in the world; it is fearful.
"
- From http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~turing/T/003397
. html:
"
But that the dread of someone else could win that game, puzzles the will and makes us rather bear those ills we have. Thus conscience does make cowards of us all; and thus the native hue of resolution is sicklied over with the pale cast of thought, and enterprises of great pith and moment. With this regard their currents turn awry, and lose the name of action.
"
(This last attempts to quote the original, except the phrase "could win the game".)
This startling conclusion is one that you could not find with Google, which could not even be bothered to find for you where the phrase "but that the dread" comes from. Apparently each of Altavista's 434 original results, except these latter three, are correct positives. (In the sense that the phrase is from the context in which I heard it, as a part of a soliloquy in Hamlet.)
I used to use Altavista and was sad to hear at a conference held by some technology head at it here in Boston, that lots of people only use Altavista as a "backup" in case Google can't find what they're looking for. He was very proud of the idea that Altavista didn't have what he called "stop words" (Google's "the" "a", etc), but rather full-text indexing. (He did mention that only the first 378K of a text were indexed or something, but I think any document that long is also avaialable for download somewhere in chapters...). Anyway at that time I was saddened that Altavista wasn't doing too well, it was what I used, since it seemed like it had an expert, powerful system. (With such conveniences as a NEAR keyword to show that two phrases mustn't just occur within the same document but within several words of each other. The back-end, but not the user interface, he told some of us afterward over refreshments, was fully Regular Expression, and an expert user could combine things like boolean operators with NEAR and a few other keywords (up to an impressive depth) to get basically any query she wanted.
Today I use Google because, chances are, the site that I'm interested in is the one other people are interested in who know about that subject. (From Google's site:
"
PageRank Explained
PageRank relies on the uniquely democratic nature of the web by using its vast link structure as an indicator of an individual page's value. In essence, Google interprets a link from page A to page B as a vote, by page A, for page B. But, Google looks at more than the sheer volume of votes, or links a page receives; it also analyzes the page that casts the vote. Votes cast by pages that are themselves "important" weigh more heavily and help to make other pages "important."
Important, high-quality sites receive a higher PageRank, which Google remembers each time it conducts a search. Of course, important pages mean nothing to you if they don't match your query. So, Google combines PageRank with sophisticated text-matching techniques to find pages that are both important and relevant to your search. Google goes far beyond the number of times a term appears on a page and examines all aspects of the page's content (and the content of the pages linking to it) to determine if it's a good match for your query.
")
Which of course is usually exactly what I want. Unless I have a phrase stuck in my mind like "but that the dread". In that case, like those upon whom I frowned a year or two upon, I head over to Altavista "as a last resort after Google fails" (sigh) and use it's all-but RegEx features.
Robert Viragh.
~ - From http://www.lang.nagoya-u.ac.jp/~matsuoka/EG-Clare
-
Re:Prepositions need love too
It says it's ignoring them, but the top few "hits" typically do include the exact page. I just tried, for instance, "All your base are belong to us". It claims to ignore "are" and "to" but the top few hits contain the exact phrase. (The same happens with your example "Hail to the chief", though it says it's ignoring "to the".)
You're such an f'ing troll, I was about to say anonymously, but then how can you have such a low ID? Sigh. Here goes my rant.
"I tried, for instance, 'All your base are belong to us'." Yeah. Uh-huh. That phrase is so frequent that if I hear "base belong" I think of that phrase. Hell: here's the word belong on google. Four of the top ten searches, including the top two, highlight "belong" in the full phrase "all your base are belong to us" visible in the summary. What were you smoking? Man.
My point, dear rsidd, just so I'm not being flamebait, is that if you want to see how Google treats your phrases, pick a random phrase out of a book you know is an etext, not too common, and see if you can find that etext based on that short word. Let's say you remember the phrase "but that the dread" of something after death, but you're only sure of the first part. What's this from? (Hamlet's soliloquy. "Who would fardels bear...but that the dread of something after death...puzzles [paralyzes] the will [to end the bad things] and makes us rather bear those ills we have than fly to others we know not of....")
Now look here:
+"+but +that +the +dread"
Returns:
"Results 1 - 10 of about 3,410"
(none of these includes the phrase I searched on.)
Now this:
+"+but +that +the +dread" -Hamlet -Shakespeare
Returns:
"Results 1 - 10 of about 2,480"
In other words, after I make sure that Hamlet's quotation was not just lurking on another page past the first ten that I looked at, I saw how many pages of the 3,410 could possibly have to do with the quotation I was looking for. Only 930 (subtract above).
Now let's look at a full-fledged full-text search engine, Altavista. (no affiliation, but I use altavista whenever I need a phrase and don't care how popular or "valued" the site is that it appears on--do you know that Google adjusts importance based on how much linkage a site gets on other sites? This doesn't mesh with phrase-based searching.)
Anyway,
"but that the dread"
on altavista returns, not surprisingly, a top ten pages that EACH (every one of the ten) reference Hamlet's soliloquy. (Althoguh one is a satire including the phrase and being about a cat. It begins
"To go outside, and there perchance to stay
Or to remain within: that is the question:" and includes the phrase I searched on).
Total number of search results returned with the above search?
"We found 434 results:"
Now bear in mind that Google couldn't even come up with the phrase, however much I +'d it to death, on its top ten list. If I only have that one phrase in memory on Google, I can't find it. Period. But what if I want more power than just that. What if I wasn't just looking for it (because if I had been, I might include words like "play" or "shakespeare", which I could reasonably guess is where I got the phrase stuck in my mind from), but rather, for instance, wanted to know how many times anyone on the Internet (that a search engine indexes) has used the words "but that the dread", except in quoting Shakespeare. Therefore, the following progression. (After each one, I looked at the top ten pages and added a phrase to eliminate one or more of them).
"but that the dread"
We found 434 results:
"but that the dread" -Hamlet -Shakespeare
We found 65 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare (lowercase this time, because Altavista treates uppercase as forced-uppercase and lowercase as either.)
We found 48 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare -"that is the question" (Still fairly clearly an allusion to Shakespeare.)
We found 13 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare -"that is the question" -"whether 'tis"
We found 8 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare -"that is the question" -"whether 'tis" -"undiscover'd country"
We found 7 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare -"that is the question" -"whether 'tis" -"undiscover'd country" -"undiscovered country"
We found 4 results:
The four results?- From http://www.lang.nagoya-u.ac.jp/~matsuoka/EG-Clare
. html:
"
The sound seemed taken out of her voice; it was husky as the notes on an old harpsichord when the strings have ceased to vibrate. She read her answer in my face, I suppose, for I could not speak. Her look was one of intense fear, but that died away into an aspect of most humble patience. At length she seemed to force herself to face behind and around her: she saw the purple moors, the blue distant hills, quivering in the sunlight, but nothing else.
'Will you take me home?' she said meekly.
I took her by the hand, and led her silently through the budding heather - we dared not speak; for we could not tell but that the dread creature was listening, although unseen - but that IT might appear and push us asunder. I never loved her more fondly than now when - and that was the unspeakable misery - the idea of her was becoming so inextricably blended with the shuddering thought of IT. She seemed to understand what I must be feeling. She let go my hand, which she had kept clasped until then, when we reached the garden gate, and went forwards to meet her anxious friend, who was standing by the window looking for her. I could not enter the house: I needed silence, society, leisure, change - I knew not what - to shake off the sensation of that creature's presence. Yet I lingered about the garden - I hardly know why; partly, I suppose, because I feared to encounter the resemblance again on the solitary common, where it had vanished, and partly from a feeling of inexpressible compassion for Lucy. In a few minutes Mistress Clarke came forth and joined me. We walked some paces in silence.
"
- From http://www.clareweb.com/eolas/coclare/history/dut
t on_su rvey/dutton_survey_chapter5.5.htm:
"
Mr. Ledwich, in his Epitome of the Antiquities of Ireland, says, that in the reign of King John the clergy did not receive any tithes; the veneration for the church at that time was so great, that regulations were unnecessary; they were supported by oblations. The piety of modern times, I fear, would influence but very small collections. The whole ecclesiastical revenue to a late period was divided into four parts, one to the Bishop, one to the clergy, one to the poor, and one to support the church and other uses, and he says this mode exists at this day in the diocese of Clonfert.
To throw as much light on this subject as possible, I shall make a few extracts from Mr. Rawson's admirable Survey of Kildare, lately published. In page 27 he mentions one tithe-dealer having exacted thirty shillings per acre for wheat;** "the dread of citation, and the loss of his straw, made the timorous ploughman yield to any terms." Again, page 31, "It must appear evident to every man, that the entire weight of the church establishment falls on the sweat from the brow of industry, whilst the feeder of one thousand bullocks does not pay as much as the herdsman for his garden. Can it be denied, but that the dread of tithe keeps much land in pasture, which would otherwise give bread to thousands, encrease population twenty-fold, do away all necessity of emigration, and make little Ireland not only a granary to England, but to the whole world." In page 33, and which deserves peculiar attention, "The assertors, that the titles to tithes and to estates are of equal strength, should consider that, if estates were to be let at undefined rents from year to year, and the landlord at each harvest to view the crops and exact some proportion in lieu of rent, would any occupier in such case be anxious to till or improve? Would not the kingdom soon become a dreary uninhabited waste? Yet exactly such is the conduct towards the tenth of the produce, the tithe. Let the land-holder be ascertained at what yearly rent he is to pay for one and the other, and all complaint is at an end.[...]
"
- From http://www.victorybaptist.org/books/johnbunyan/fe
a rofgod/part1.htm:
"
3. Add to this the revelation of God's goodness, and it must needs make his presence dreadful to us; for when a poor defiled creature shall see that this great God hath, notwithstanding his greatness, goodness in his heart, and mercy to bestow upon him: this makes his presence yet the more dreadful. They "shall fear the Lord and his goodness" (Hosea 3:5). The goodness as well as the greatness of God doth beget in the heart of his elect an awful reverence of his majesty. "Fear ye not me? saith the Lord; will ye not tremble at my presence?" And then, to engage us in our soul to the duty, he adds one of his wonderful mercies to the world, for a motive, "Fear ye not me?" Why, who are thou? He answers, Even I, "which have" set, or "placed the sand for the bound of the sea by a perpetual decree, that it cannot pass it; and though the waves thereof toss themselves, yet can they not prevail; though they roar, yet can they not pass over it?" (Jer 5:22). Also, when Job had God present with him, making manifest the goodness of his great heart to him, what doth he say? how doth he behave himself in his presence? "I have heard of thee," says he, "by the hearing of the ear, but now mine eye seeth thee; wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes" (Job 42:5,6).
And what mean the tremblings, the tears, those breakings and shakings of heart that attend the people of God, when in an eminent manner they receive the pronunciation of the forgiveness of sins at his mouth, but that the dread of the majesty of God is in their sight mixed therewith? God must appear like himself, speak to the soul like himself; nor can the sinner, when under these glorious discoveries of his Lord and Saviour, keep out the beams of his majesty from the eyes of his understanding. "I will cleanse them," saith he, "from all their iniquity, whereby they have sinned against me, and I will pardon all their iniquities whereby they have sinned, and whereby they have transgressed against me." And what then? "And they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness, and for all the prosperity that I procure unto it" (Jer 33:8,9). Alas! there is a company of poor, light, frothy professors in the world, that carry it under that which they call the presence of God, more like to antics, than sober sensible Christians; yea, more like to a fool of a play, than those that have the presence of God. They would not carry it so in the presence of a king, nor yet of the lord of their land, were they but receivers of mercy at his hand. They carry it even in their most eminent seasons, as if the sense and sight of God, and his blessed grace to their souls in Christ, had a tendency in them to make men wanton: but indeed it is the most humbling and heart-breaking sight in the world; it is fearful.
"
- From http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~turing/T/003397
. html:
"
But that the dread of someone else could win that game, puzzles the will and makes us rather bear those ills we have. Thus conscience does make cowards of us all; and thus the native hue of resolution is sicklied over with the pale cast of thought, and enterprises of great pith and moment. With this regard their currents turn awry, and lose the name of action.
"
(This last attempts to quote the original, except the phrase "could win the game".)
This startling conclusion is one that you could not find with Google, which could not even be bothered to find for you where the phrase "but that the dread" comes from. Apparently each of Altavista's 434 original results, except these latter three, are correct positives. (In the sense that the phrase is from the context in which I heard it, as a part of a soliloquy in Hamlet.)
I used to use Altavista and was sad to hear at a conference held by some technology head at it here in Boston, that lots of people only use Altavista as a "backup" in case Google can't find what they're looking for. He was very proud of the idea that Altavista didn't have what he called "stop words" (Google's "the" "a", etc), but rather full-text indexing. (He did mention that only the first 378K of a text were indexed or something, but I think any document that long is also avaialable for download somewhere in chapters...). Anyway at that time I was saddened that Altavista wasn't doing too well, it was what I used, since it seemed like it had an expert, powerful system. (With such conveniences as a NEAR keyword to show that two phrases mustn't just occur within the same document but within several words of each other. The back-end, but not the user interface, he told some of us afterward over refreshments, was fully Regular Expression, and an expert user could combine things like boolean operators with NEAR and a few other keywords (up to an impressive depth) to get basically any query she wanted.
Today I use Google because, chances are, the site that I'm interested in is the one other people are interested in who know about that subject. (From Google's site:
"
PageRank Explained
PageRank relies on the uniquely democratic nature of the web by using its vast link structure as an indicator of an individual page's value. In essence, Google interprets a link from page A to page B as a vote, by page A, for page B. But, Google looks at more than the sheer volume of votes, or links a page receives; it also analyzes the page that casts the vote. Votes cast by pages that are themselves "important" weigh more heavily and help to make other pages "important."
Important, high-quality sites receive a higher PageRank, which Google remembers each time it conducts a search. Of course, important pages mean nothing to you if they don't match your query. So, Google combines PageRank with sophisticated text-matching techniques to find pages that are both important and relevant to your search. Google goes far beyond the number of times a term appears on a page and examines all aspects of the page's content (and the content of the pages linking to it) to determine if it's a good match for your query.
")
Which of course is usually exactly what I want. Unless I have a phrase stuck in my mind like "but that the dread". In that case, like those upon whom I frowned a year or two upon, I head over to Altavista "as a last resort after Google fails" (sigh) and use it's all-but RegEx features.
Robert Viragh.
~ - From http://www.lang.nagoya-u.ac.jp/~matsuoka/EG-Clare
-
Re:Prepositions need love too
It says it's ignoring them, but the top few "hits" typically do include the exact page. I just tried, for instance, "All your base are belong to us". It claims to ignore "are" and "to" but the top few hits contain the exact phrase. (The same happens with your example "Hail to the chief", though it says it's ignoring "to the".)
You're such an f'ing troll, I was about to say anonymously, but then how can you have such a low ID? Sigh. Here goes my rant.
"I tried, for instance, 'All your base are belong to us'." Yeah. Uh-huh. That phrase is so frequent that if I hear "base belong" I think of that phrase. Hell: here's the word belong on google. Four of the top ten searches, including the top two, highlight "belong" in the full phrase "all your base are belong to us" visible in the summary. What were you smoking? Man.
My point, dear rsidd, just so I'm not being flamebait, is that if you want to see how Google treats your phrases, pick a random phrase out of a book you know is an etext, not too common, and see if you can find that etext based on that short word. Let's say you remember the phrase "but that the dread" of something after death, but you're only sure of the first part. What's this from? (Hamlet's soliloquy. "Who would fardels bear...but that the dread of something after death...puzzles [paralyzes] the will [to end the bad things] and makes us rather bear those ills we have than fly to others we know not of....")
Now look here:
+"+but +that +the +dread"
Returns:
"Results 1 - 10 of about 3,410"
(none of these includes the phrase I searched on.)
Now this:
+"+but +that +the +dread" -Hamlet -Shakespeare
Returns:
"Results 1 - 10 of about 2,480"
In other words, after I make sure that Hamlet's quotation was not just lurking on another page past the first ten that I looked at, I saw how many pages of the 3,410 could possibly have to do with the quotation I was looking for. Only 930 (subtract above).
Now let's look at a full-fledged full-text search engine, Altavista. (no affiliation, but I use altavista whenever I need a phrase and don't care how popular or "valued" the site is that it appears on--do you know that Google adjusts importance based on how much linkage a site gets on other sites? This doesn't mesh with phrase-based searching.)
Anyway,
"but that the dread"
on altavista returns, not surprisingly, a top ten pages that EACH (every one of the ten) reference Hamlet's soliloquy. (Althoguh one is a satire including the phrase and being about a cat. It begins
"To go outside, and there perchance to stay
Or to remain within: that is the question:" and includes the phrase I searched on).
Total number of search results returned with the above search?
"We found 434 results:"
Now bear in mind that Google couldn't even come up with the phrase, however much I +'d it to death, on its top ten list. If I only have that one phrase in memory on Google, I can't find it. Period. But what if I want more power than just that. What if I wasn't just looking for it (because if I had been, I might include words like "play" or "shakespeare", which I could reasonably guess is where I got the phrase stuck in my mind from), but rather, for instance, wanted to know how many times anyone on the Internet (that a search engine indexes) has used the words "but that the dread", except in quoting Shakespeare. Therefore, the following progression. (After each one, I looked at the top ten pages and added a phrase to eliminate one or more of them).
"but that the dread"
We found 434 results:
"but that the dread" -Hamlet -Shakespeare
We found 65 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare (lowercase this time, because Altavista treates uppercase as forced-uppercase and lowercase as either.)
We found 48 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare -"that is the question" (Still fairly clearly an allusion to Shakespeare.)
We found 13 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare -"that is the question" -"whether 'tis"
We found 8 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare -"that is the question" -"whether 'tis" -"undiscover'd country"
We found 7 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare -"that is the question" -"whether 'tis" -"undiscover'd country" -"undiscovered country"
We found 4 results:
The four results?- From http://www.lang.nagoya-u.ac.jp/~matsuoka/EG-Clare
. html:
"
The sound seemed taken out of her voice; it was husky as the notes on an old harpsichord when the strings have ceased to vibrate. She read her answer in my face, I suppose, for I could not speak. Her look was one of intense fear, but that died away into an aspect of most humble patience. At length she seemed to force herself to face behind and around her: she saw the purple moors, the blue distant hills, quivering in the sunlight, but nothing else.
'Will you take me home?' she said meekly.
I took her by the hand, and led her silently through the budding heather - we dared not speak; for we could not tell but that the dread creature was listening, although unseen - but that IT might appear and push us asunder. I never loved her more fondly than now when - and that was the unspeakable misery - the idea of her was becoming so inextricably blended with the shuddering thought of IT. She seemed to understand what I must be feeling. She let go my hand, which she had kept clasped until then, when we reached the garden gate, and went forwards to meet her anxious friend, who was standing by the window looking for her. I could not enter the house: I needed silence, society, leisure, change - I knew not what - to shake off the sensation of that creature's presence. Yet I lingered about the garden - I hardly know why; partly, I suppose, because I feared to encounter the resemblance again on the solitary common, where it had vanished, and partly from a feeling of inexpressible compassion for Lucy. In a few minutes Mistress Clarke came forth and joined me. We walked some paces in silence.
"
- From http://www.clareweb.com/eolas/coclare/history/dut
t on_su rvey/dutton_survey_chapter5.5.htm:
"
Mr. Ledwich, in his Epitome of the Antiquities of Ireland, says, that in the reign of King John the clergy did not receive any tithes; the veneration for the church at that time was so great, that regulations were unnecessary; they were supported by oblations. The piety of modern times, I fear, would influence but very small collections. The whole ecclesiastical revenue to a late period was divided into four parts, one to the Bishop, one to the clergy, one to the poor, and one to support the church and other uses, and he says this mode exists at this day in the diocese of Clonfert.
To throw as much light on this subject as possible, I shall make a few extracts from Mr. Rawson's admirable Survey of Kildare, lately published. In page 27 he mentions one tithe-dealer having exacted thirty shillings per acre for wheat;** "the dread of citation, and the loss of his straw, made the timorous ploughman yield to any terms." Again, page 31, "It must appear evident to every man, that the entire weight of the church establishment falls on the sweat from the brow of industry, whilst the feeder of one thousand bullocks does not pay as much as the herdsman for his garden. Can it be denied, but that the dread of tithe keeps much land in pasture, which would otherwise give bread to thousands, encrease population twenty-fold, do away all necessity of emigration, and make little Ireland not only a granary to England, but to the whole world." In page 33, and which deserves peculiar attention, "The assertors, that the titles to tithes and to estates are of equal strength, should consider that, if estates were to be let at undefined rents from year to year, and the landlord at each harvest to view the crops and exact some proportion in lieu of rent, would any occupier in such case be anxious to till or improve? Would not the kingdom soon become a dreary uninhabited waste? Yet exactly such is the conduct towards the tenth of the produce, the tithe. Let the land-holder be ascertained at what yearly rent he is to pay for one and the other, and all complaint is at an end.[...]
"
- From http://www.victorybaptist.org/books/johnbunyan/fe
a rofgod/part1.htm:
"
3. Add to this the revelation of God's goodness, and it must needs make his presence dreadful to us; for when a poor defiled creature shall see that this great God hath, notwithstanding his greatness, goodness in his heart, and mercy to bestow upon him: this makes his presence yet the more dreadful. They "shall fear the Lord and his goodness" (Hosea 3:5). The goodness as well as the greatness of God doth beget in the heart of his elect an awful reverence of his majesty. "Fear ye not me? saith the Lord; will ye not tremble at my presence?" And then, to engage us in our soul to the duty, he adds one of his wonderful mercies to the world, for a motive, "Fear ye not me?" Why, who are thou? He answers, Even I, "which have" set, or "placed the sand for the bound of the sea by a perpetual decree, that it cannot pass it; and though the waves thereof toss themselves, yet can they not prevail; though they roar, yet can they not pass over it?" (Jer 5:22). Also, when Job had God present with him, making manifest the goodness of his great heart to him, what doth he say? how doth he behave himself in his presence? "I have heard of thee," says he, "by the hearing of the ear, but now mine eye seeth thee; wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes" (Job 42:5,6).
And what mean the tremblings, the tears, those breakings and shakings of heart that attend the people of God, when in an eminent manner they receive the pronunciation of the forgiveness of sins at his mouth, but that the dread of the majesty of God is in their sight mixed therewith? God must appear like himself, speak to the soul like himself; nor can the sinner, when under these glorious discoveries of his Lord and Saviour, keep out the beams of his majesty from the eyes of his understanding. "I will cleanse them," saith he, "from all their iniquity, whereby they have sinned against me, and I will pardon all their iniquities whereby they have sinned, and whereby they have transgressed against me." And what then? "And they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness, and for all the prosperity that I procure unto it" (Jer 33:8,9). Alas! there is a company of poor, light, frothy professors in the world, that carry it under that which they call the presence of God, more like to antics, than sober sensible Christians; yea, more like to a fool of a play, than those that have the presence of God. They would not carry it so in the presence of a king, nor yet of the lord of their land, were they but receivers of mercy at his hand. They carry it even in their most eminent seasons, as if the sense and sight of God, and his blessed grace to their souls in Christ, had a tendency in them to make men wanton: but indeed it is the most humbling and heart-breaking sight in the world; it is fearful.
"
- From http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~turing/T/003397
. html:
"
But that the dread of someone else could win that game, puzzles the will and makes us rather bear those ills we have. Thus conscience does make cowards of us all; and thus the native hue of resolution is sicklied over with the pale cast of thought, and enterprises of great pith and moment. With this regard their currents turn awry, and lose the name of action.
"
(This last attempts to quote the original, except the phrase "could win the game".)
This startling conclusion is one that you could not find with Google, which could not even be bothered to find for you where the phrase "but that the dread" comes from. Apparently each of Altavista's 434 original results, except these latter three, are correct positives. (In the sense that the phrase is from the context in which I heard it, as a part of a soliloquy in Hamlet.)
I used to use Altavista and was sad to hear at a conference held by some technology head at it here in Boston, that lots of people only use Altavista as a "backup" in case Google can't find what they're looking for. He was very proud of the idea that Altavista didn't have what he called "stop words" (Google's "the" "a", etc), but rather full-text indexing. (He did mention that only the first 378K of a text were indexed or something, but I think any document that long is also avaialable for download somewhere in chapters...). Anyway at that time I was saddened that Altavista wasn't doing too well, it was what I used, since it seemed like it had an expert, powerful system. (With such conveniences as a NEAR keyword to show that two phrases mustn't just occur within the same document but within several words of each other. The back-end, but not the user interface, he told some of us afterward over refreshments, was fully Regular Expression, and an expert user could combine things like boolean operators with NEAR and a few other keywords (up to an impressive depth) to get basically any query she wanted.
Today I use Google because, chances are, the site that I'm interested in is the one other people are interested in who know about that subject. (From Google's site:
"
PageRank Explained
PageRank relies on the uniquely democratic nature of the web by using its vast link structure as an indicator of an individual page's value. In essence, Google interprets a link from page A to page B as a vote, by page A, for page B. But, Google looks at more than the sheer volume of votes, or links a page receives; it also analyzes the page that casts the vote. Votes cast by pages that are themselves "important" weigh more heavily and help to make other pages "important."
Important, high-quality sites receive a higher PageRank, which Google remembers each time it conducts a search. Of course, important pages mean nothing to you if they don't match your query. So, Google combines PageRank with sophisticated text-matching techniques to find pages that are both important and relevant to your search. Google goes far beyond the number of times a term appears on a page and examines all aspects of the page's content (and the content of the pages linking to it) to determine if it's a good match for your query.
")
Which of course is usually exactly what I want. Unless I have a phrase stuck in my mind like "but that the dread". In that case, like those upon whom I frowned a year or two upon, I head over to Altavista "as a last resort after Google fails" (sigh) and use it's all-but RegEx features.
Robert Viragh.
~ - From http://www.lang.nagoya-u.ac.jp/~matsuoka/EG-Clare
-
Re:Prepositions need love too
It says it's ignoring them, but the top few "hits" typically do include the exact page. I just tried, for instance, "All your base are belong to us". It claims to ignore "are" and "to" but the top few hits contain the exact phrase. (The same happens with your example "Hail to the chief", though it says it's ignoring "to the".)
You're such an f'ing troll, I was about to say anonymously, but then how can you have such a low ID? Sigh. Here goes my rant.
"I tried, for instance, 'All your base are belong to us'." Yeah. Uh-huh. That phrase is so frequent that if I hear "base belong" I think of that phrase. Hell: here's the word belong on google. Four of the top ten searches, including the top two, highlight "belong" in the full phrase "all your base are belong to us" visible in the summary. What were you smoking? Man.
My point, dear rsidd, just so I'm not being flamebait, is that if you want to see how Google treats your phrases, pick a random phrase out of a book you know is an etext, not too common, and see if you can find that etext based on that short word. Let's say you remember the phrase "but that the dread" of something after death, but you're only sure of the first part. What's this from? (Hamlet's soliloquy. "Who would fardels bear...but that the dread of something after death...puzzles [paralyzes] the will [to end the bad things] and makes us rather bear those ills we have than fly to others we know not of....")
Now look here:
+"+but +that +the +dread"
Returns:
"Results 1 - 10 of about 3,410"
(none of these includes the phrase I searched on.)
Now this:
+"+but +that +the +dread" -Hamlet -Shakespeare
Returns:
"Results 1 - 10 of about 2,480"
In other words, after I make sure that Hamlet's quotation was not just lurking on another page past the first ten that I looked at, I saw how many pages of the 3,410 could possibly have to do with the quotation I was looking for. Only 930 (subtract above).
Now let's look at a full-fledged full-text search engine, Altavista. (no affiliation, but I use altavista whenever I need a phrase and don't care how popular or "valued" the site is that it appears on--do you know that Google adjusts importance based on how much linkage a site gets on other sites? This doesn't mesh with phrase-based searching.)
Anyway,
"but that the dread"
on altavista returns, not surprisingly, a top ten pages that EACH (every one of the ten) reference Hamlet's soliloquy. (Althoguh one is a satire including the phrase and being about a cat. It begins
"To go outside, and there perchance to stay
Or to remain within: that is the question:" and includes the phrase I searched on).
Total number of search results returned with the above search?
"We found 434 results:"
Now bear in mind that Google couldn't even come up with the phrase, however much I +'d it to death, on its top ten list. If I only have that one phrase in memory on Google, I can't find it. Period. But what if I want more power than just that. What if I wasn't just looking for it (because if I had been, I might include words like "play" or "shakespeare", which I could reasonably guess is where I got the phrase stuck in my mind from), but rather, for instance, wanted to know how many times anyone on the Internet (that a search engine indexes) has used the words "but that the dread", except in quoting Shakespeare. Therefore, the following progression. (After each one, I looked at the top ten pages and added a phrase to eliminate one or more of them).
"but that the dread"
We found 434 results:
"but that the dread" -Hamlet -Shakespeare
We found 65 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare (lowercase this time, because Altavista treates uppercase as forced-uppercase and lowercase as either.)
We found 48 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare -"that is the question" (Still fairly clearly an allusion to Shakespeare.)
We found 13 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare -"that is the question" -"whether 'tis"
We found 8 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare -"that is the question" -"whether 'tis" -"undiscover'd country"
We found 7 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare -"that is the question" -"whether 'tis" -"undiscover'd country" -"undiscovered country"
We found 4 results:
The four results?- From http://www.lang.nagoya-u.ac.jp/~matsuoka/EG-Clare
. html:
"
The sound seemed taken out of her voice; it was husky as the notes on an old harpsichord when the strings have ceased to vibrate. She read her answer in my face, I suppose, for I could not speak. Her look was one of intense fear, but that died away into an aspect of most humble patience. At length she seemed to force herself to face behind and around her: she saw the purple moors, the blue distant hills, quivering in the sunlight, but nothing else.
'Will you take me home?' she said meekly.
I took her by the hand, and led her silently through the budding heather - we dared not speak; for we could not tell but that the dread creature was listening, although unseen - but that IT might appear and push us asunder. I never loved her more fondly than now when - and that was the unspeakable misery - the idea of her was becoming so inextricably blended with the shuddering thought of IT. She seemed to understand what I must be feeling. She let go my hand, which she had kept clasped until then, when we reached the garden gate, and went forwards to meet her anxious friend, who was standing by the window looking for her. I could not enter the house: I needed silence, society, leisure, change - I knew not what - to shake off the sensation of that creature's presence. Yet I lingered about the garden - I hardly know why; partly, I suppose, because I feared to encounter the resemblance again on the solitary common, where it had vanished, and partly from a feeling of inexpressible compassion for Lucy. In a few minutes Mistress Clarke came forth and joined me. We walked some paces in silence.
"
- From http://www.clareweb.com/eolas/coclare/history/dut
t on_su rvey/dutton_survey_chapter5.5.htm:
"
Mr. Ledwich, in his Epitome of the Antiquities of Ireland, says, that in the reign of King John the clergy did not receive any tithes; the veneration for the church at that time was so great, that regulations were unnecessary; they were supported by oblations. The piety of modern times, I fear, would influence but very small collections. The whole ecclesiastical revenue to a late period was divided into four parts, one to the Bishop, one to the clergy, one to the poor, and one to support the church and other uses, and he says this mode exists at this day in the diocese of Clonfert.
To throw as much light on this subject as possible, I shall make a few extracts from Mr. Rawson's admirable Survey of Kildare, lately published. In page 27 he mentions one tithe-dealer having exacted thirty shillings per acre for wheat;** "the dread of citation, and the loss of his straw, made the timorous ploughman yield to any terms." Again, page 31, "It must appear evident to every man, that the entire weight of the church establishment falls on the sweat from the brow of industry, whilst the feeder of one thousand bullocks does not pay as much as the herdsman for his garden. Can it be denied, but that the dread of tithe keeps much land in pasture, which would otherwise give bread to thousands, encrease population twenty-fold, do away all necessity of emigration, and make little Ireland not only a granary to England, but to the whole world." In page 33, and which deserves peculiar attention, "The assertors, that the titles to tithes and to estates are of equal strength, should consider that, if estates were to be let at undefined rents from year to year, and the landlord at each harvest to view the crops and exact some proportion in lieu of rent, would any occupier in such case be anxious to till or improve? Would not the kingdom soon become a dreary uninhabited waste? Yet exactly such is the conduct towards the tenth of the produce, the tithe. Let the land-holder be ascertained at what yearly rent he is to pay for one and the other, and all complaint is at an end.[...]
"
- From http://www.victorybaptist.org/books/johnbunyan/fe
a rofgod/part1.htm:
"
3. Add to this the revelation of God's goodness, and it must needs make his presence dreadful to us; for when a poor defiled creature shall see that this great God hath, notwithstanding his greatness, goodness in his heart, and mercy to bestow upon him: this makes his presence yet the more dreadful. They "shall fear the Lord and his goodness" (Hosea 3:5). The goodness as well as the greatness of God doth beget in the heart of his elect an awful reverence of his majesty. "Fear ye not me? saith the Lord; will ye not tremble at my presence?" And then, to engage us in our soul to the duty, he adds one of his wonderful mercies to the world, for a motive, "Fear ye not me?" Why, who are thou? He answers, Even I, "which have" set, or "placed the sand for the bound of the sea by a perpetual decree, that it cannot pass it; and though the waves thereof toss themselves, yet can they not prevail; though they roar, yet can they not pass over it?" (Jer 5:22). Also, when Job had God present with him, making manifest the goodness of his great heart to him, what doth he say? how doth he behave himself in his presence? "I have heard of thee," says he, "by the hearing of the ear, but now mine eye seeth thee; wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes" (Job 42:5,6).
And what mean the tremblings, the tears, those breakings and shakings of heart that attend the people of God, when in an eminent manner they receive the pronunciation of the forgiveness of sins at his mouth, but that the dread of the majesty of God is in their sight mixed therewith? God must appear like himself, speak to the soul like himself; nor can the sinner, when under these glorious discoveries of his Lord and Saviour, keep out the beams of his majesty from the eyes of his understanding. "I will cleanse them," saith he, "from all their iniquity, whereby they have sinned against me, and I will pardon all their iniquities whereby they have sinned, and whereby they have transgressed against me." And what then? "And they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness, and for all the prosperity that I procure unto it" (Jer 33:8,9). Alas! there is a company of poor, light, frothy professors in the world, that carry it under that which they call the presence of God, more like to antics, than sober sensible Christians; yea, more like to a fool of a play, than those that have the presence of God. They would not carry it so in the presence of a king, nor yet of the lord of their land, were they but receivers of mercy at his hand. They carry it even in their most eminent seasons, as if the sense and sight of God, and his blessed grace to their souls in Christ, had a tendency in them to make men wanton: but indeed it is the most humbling and heart-breaking sight in the world; it is fearful.
"
- From http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~turing/T/003397
. html:
"
But that the dread of someone else could win that game, puzzles the will and makes us rather bear those ills we have. Thus conscience does make cowards of us all; and thus the native hue of resolution is sicklied over with the pale cast of thought, and enterprises of great pith and moment. With this regard their currents turn awry, and lose the name of action.
"
(This last attempts to quote the original, except the phrase "could win the game".)
This startling conclusion is one that you could not find with Google, which could not even be bothered to find for you where the phrase "but that the dread" comes from. Apparently each of Altavista's 434 original results, except these latter three, are correct positives. (In the sense that the phrase is from the context in which I heard it, as a part of a soliloquy in Hamlet.)
I used to use Altavista and was sad to hear at a conference held by some technology head at it here in Boston, that lots of people only use Altavista as a "backup" in case Google can't find what they're looking for. He was very proud of the idea that Altavista didn't have what he called "stop words" (Google's "the" "a", etc), but rather full-text indexing. (He did mention that only the first 378K of a text were indexed or something, but I think any document that long is also avaialable for download somewhere in chapters...). Anyway at that time I was saddened that Altavista wasn't doing too well, it was what I used, since it seemed like it had an expert, powerful system. (With such conveniences as a NEAR keyword to show that two phrases mustn't just occur within the same document but within several words of each other. The back-end, but not the user interface, he told some of us afterward over refreshments, was fully Regular Expression, and an expert user could combine things like boolean operators with NEAR and a few other keywords (up to an impressive depth) to get basically any query she wanted.
Today I use Google because, chances are, the site that I'm interested in is the one other people are interested in who know about that subject. (From Google's site:
"
PageRank Explained
PageRank relies on the uniquely democratic nature of the web by using its vast link structure as an indicator of an individual page's value. In essence, Google interprets a link from page A to page B as a vote, by page A, for page B. But, Google looks at more than the sheer volume of votes, or links a page receives; it also analyzes the page that casts the vote. Votes cast by pages that are themselves "important" weigh more heavily and help to make other pages "important."
Important, high-quality sites receive a higher PageRank, which Google remembers each time it conducts a search. Of course, important pages mean nothing to you if they don't match your query. So, Google combines PageRank with sophisticated text-matching techniques to find pages that are both important and relevant to your search. Google goes far beyond the number of times a term appears on a page and examines all aspects of the page's content (and the content of the pages linking to it) to determine if it's a good match for your query.
")
Which of course is usually exactly what I want. Unless I have a phrase stuck in my mind like "but that the dread". In that case, like those upon whom I frowned a year or two upon, I head over to Altavista "as a last resort after Google fails" (sigh) and use it's all-but RegEx features.
Robert Viragh.
~ - From http://www.lang.nagoya-u.ac.jp/~matsuoka/EG-Clare
-
Re:Prepositions need love too
It says it's ignoring them, but the top few "hits" typically do include the exact page. I just tried, for instance, "All your base are belong to us". It claims to ignore "are" and "to" but the top few hits contain the exact phrase. (The same happens with your example "Hail to the chief", though it says it's ignoring "to the".)
You're such an f'ing troll, I was about to say anonymously, but then how can you have such a low ID? Sigh. Here goes my rant.
"I tried, for instance, 'All your base are belong to us'." Yeah. Uh-huh. That phrase is so frequent that if I hear "base belong" I think of that phrase. Hell: here's the word belong on google. Four of the top ten searches, including the top two, highlight "belong" in the full phrase "all your base are belong to us" visible in the summary. What were you smoking? Man.
My point, dear rsidd, just so I'm not being flamebait, is that if you want to see how Google treats your phrases, pick a random phrase out of a book you know is an etext, not too common, and see if you can find that etext based on that short word. Let's say you remember the phrase "but that the dread" of something after death, but you're only sure of the first part. What's this from? (Hamlet's soliloquy. "Who would fardels bear...but that the dread of something after death...puzzles [paralyzes] the will [to end the bad things] and makes us rather bear those ills we have than fly to others we know not of....")
Now look here:
+"+but +that +the +dread"
Returns:
"Results 1 - 10 of about 3,410"
(none of these includes the phrase I searched on.)
Now this:
+"+but +that +the +dread" -Hamlet -Shakespeare
Returns:
"Results 1 - 10 of about 2,480"
In other words, after I make sure that Hamlet's quotation was not just lurking on another page past the first ten that I looked at, I saw how many pages of the 3,410 could possibly have to do with the quotation I was looking for. Only 930 (subtract above).
Now let's look at a full-fledged full-text search engine, Altavista. (no affiliation, but I use altavista whenever I need a phrase and don't care how popular or "valued" the site is that it appears on--do you know that Google adjusts importance based on how much linkage a site gets on other sites? This doesn't mesh with phrase-based searching.)
Anyway,
"but that the dread"
on altavista returns, not surprisingly, a top ten pages that EACH (every one of the ten) reference Hamlet's soliloquy. (Althoguh one is a satire including the phrase and being about a cat. It begins
"To go outside, and there perchance to stay
Or to remain within: that is the question:" and includes the phrase I searched on).
Total number of search results returned with the above search?
"We found 434 results:"
Now bear in mind that Google couldn't even come up with the phrase, however much I +'d it to death, on its top ten list. If I only have that one phrase in memory on Google, I can't find it. Period. But what if I want more power than just that. What if I wasn't just looking for it (because if I had been, I might include words like "play" or "shakespeare", which I could reasonably guess is where I got the phrase stuck in my mind from), but rather, for instance, wanted to know how many times anyone on the Internet (that a search engine indexes) has used the words "but that the dread", except in quoting Shakespeare. Therefore, the following progression. (After each one, I looked at the top ten pages and added a phrase to eliminate one or more of them).
"but that the dread"
We found 434 results:
"but that the dread" -Hamlet -Shakespeare
We found 65 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare (lowercase this time, because Altavista treates uppercase as forced-uppercase and lowercase as either.)
We found 48 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare -"that is the question" (Still fairly clearly an allusion to Shakespeare.)
We found 13 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare -"that is the question" -"whether 'tis"
We found 8 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare -"that is the question" -"whether 'tis" -"undiscover'd country"
We found 7 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare -"that is the question" -"whether 'tis" -"undiscover'd country" -"undiscovered country"
We found 4 results:
The four results?- From http://www.lang.nagoya-u.ac.jp/~matsuoka/EG-Clare
. html:
"
The sound seemed taken out of her voice; it was husky as the notes on an old harpsichord when the strings have ceased to vibrate. She read her answer in my face, I suppose, for I could not speak. Her look was one of intense fear, but that died away into an aspect of most humble patience. At length she seemed to force herself to face behind and around her: she saw the purple moors, the blue distant hills, quivering in the sunlight, but nothing else.
'Will you take me home?' she said meekly.
I took her by the hand, and led her silently through the budding heather - we dared not speak; for we could not tell but that the dread creature was listening, although unseen - but that IT might appear and push us asunder. I never loved her more fondly than now when - and that was the unspeakable misery - the idea of her was becoming so inextricably blended with the shuddering thought of IT. She seemed to understand what I must be feeling. She let go my hand, which she had kept clasped until then, when we reached the garden gate, and went forwards to meet her anxious friend, who was standing by the window looking for her. I could not enter the house: I needed silence, society, leisure, change - I knew not what - to shake off the sensation of that creature's presence. Yet I lingered about the garden - I hardly know why; partly, I suppose, because I feared to encounter the resemblance again on the solitary common, where it had vanished, and partly from a feeling of inexpressible compassion for Lucy. In a few minutes Mistress Clarke came forth and joined me. We walked some paces in silence.
"
- From http://www.clareweb.com/eolas/coclare/history/dut
t on_su rvey/dutton_survey_chapter5.5.htm:
"
Mr. Ledwich, in his Epitome of the Antiquities of Ireland, says, that in the reign of King John the clergy did not receive any tithes; the veneration for the church at that time was so great, that regulations were unnecessary; they were supported by oblations. The piety of modern times, I fear, would influence but very small collections. The whole ecclesiastical revenue to a late period was divided into four parts, one to the Bishop, one to the clergy, one to the poor, and one to support the church and other uses, and he says this mode exists at this day in the diocese of Clonfert.
To throw as much light on this subject as possible, I shall make a few extracts from Mr. Rawson's admirable Survey of Kildare, lately published. In page 27 he mentions one tithe-dealer having exacted thirty shillings per acre for wheat;** "the dread of citation, and the loss of his straw, made the timorous ploughman yield to any terms." Again, page 31, "It must appear evident to every man, that the entire weight of the church establishment falls on the sweat from the brow of industry, whilst the feeder of one thousand bullocks does not pay as much as the herdsman for his garden. Can it be denied, but that the dread of tithe keeps much land in pasture, which would otherwise give bread to thousands, encrease population twenty-fold, do away all necessity of emigration, and make little Ireland not only a granary to England, but to the whole world." In page 33, and which deserves peculiar attention, "The assertors, that the titles to tithes and to estates are of equal strength, should consider that, if estates were to be let at undefined rents from year to year, and the landlord at each harvest to view the crops and exact some proportion in lieu of rent, would any occupier in such case be anxious to till or improve? Would not the kingdom soon become a dreary uninhabited waste? Yet exactly such is the conduct towards the tenth of the produce, the tithe. Let the land-holder be ascertained at what yearly rent he is to pay for one and the other, and all complaint is at an end.[...]
"
- From http://www.victorybaptist.org/books/johnbunyan/fe
a rofgod/part1.htm:
"
3. Add to this the revelation of God's goodness, and it must needs make his presence dreadful to us; for when a poor defiled creature shall see that this great God hath, notwithstanding his greatness, goodness in his heart, and mercy to bestow upon him: this makes his presence yet the more dreadful. They "shall fear the Lord and his goodness" (Hosea 3:5). The goodness as well as the greatness of God doth beget in the heart of his elect an awful reverence of his majesty. "Fear ye not me? saith the Lord; will ye not tremble at my presence?" And then, to engage us in our soul to the duty, he adds one of his wonderful mercies to the world, for a motive, "Fear ye not me?" Why, who are thou? He answers, Even I, "which have" set, or "placed the sand for the bound of the sea by a perpetual decree, that it cannot pass it; and though the waves thereof toss themselves, yet can they not prevail; though they roar, yet can they not pass over it?" (Jer 5:22). Also, when Job had God present with him, making manifest the goodness of his great heart to him, what doth he say? how doth he behave himself in his presence? "I have heard of thee," says he, "by the hearing of the ear, but now mine eye seeth thee; wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes" (Job 42:5,6).
And what mean the tremblings, the tears, those breakings and shakings of heart that attend the people of God, when in an eminent manner they receive the pronunciation of the forgiveness of sins at his mouth, but that the dread of the majesty of God is in their sight mixed therewith? God must appear like himself, speak to the soul like himself; nor can the sinner, when under these glorious discoveries of his Lord and Saviour, keep out the beams of his majesty from the eyes of his understanding. "I will cleanse them," saith he, "from all their iniquity, whereby they have sinned against me, and I will pardon all their iniquities whereby they have sinned, and whereby they have transgressed against me." And what then? "And they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness, and for all the prosperity that I procure unto it" (Jer 33:8,9). Alas! there is a company of poor, light, frothy professors in the world, that carry it under that which they call the presence of God, more like to antics, than sober sensible Christians; yea, more like to a fool of a play, than those that have the presence of God. They would not carry it so in the presence of a king, nor yet of the lord of their land, were they but receivers of mercy at his hand. They carry it even in their most eminent seasons, as if the sense and sight of God, and his blessed grace to their souls in Christ, had a tendency in them to make men wanton: but indeed it is the most humbling and heart-breaking sight in the world; it is fearful.
"
- From http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~turing/T/003397
. html:
"
But that the dread of someone else could win that game, puzzles the will and makes us rather bear those ills we have. Thus conscience does make cowards of us all; and thus the native hue of resolution is sicklied over with the pale cast of thought, and enterprises of great pith and moment. With this regard their currents turn awry, and lose the name of action.
"
(This last attempts to quote the original, except the phrase "could win the game".)
This startling conclusion is one that you could not find with Google, which could not even be bothered to find for you where the phrase "but that the dread" comes from. Apparently each of Altavista's 434 original results, except these latter three, are correct positives. (In the sense that the phrase is from the context in which I heard it, as a part of a soliloquy in Hamlet.)
I used to use Altavista and was sad to hear at a conference held by some technology head at it here in Boston, that lots of people only use Altavista as a "backup" in case Google can't find what they're looking for. He was very proud of the idea that Altavista didn't have what he called "stop words" (Google's "the" "a", etc), but rather full-text indexing. (He did mention that only the first 378K of a text were indexed or something, but I think any document that long is also avaialable for download somewhere in chapters...). Anyway at that time I was saddened that Altavista wasn't doing too well, it was what I used, since it seemed like it had an expert, powerful system. (With such conveniences as a NEAR keyword to show that two phrases mustn't just occur within the same document but within several words of each other. The back-end, but not the user interface, he told some of us afterward over refreshments, was fully Regular Expression, and an expert user could combine things like boolean operators with NEAR and a few other keywords (up to an impressive depth) to get basically any query she wanted.
Today I use Google because, chances are, the site that I'm interested in is the one other people are interested in who know about that subject. (From Google's site:
"
PageRank Explained
PageRank relies on the uniquely democratic nature of the web by using its vast link structure as an indicator of an individual page's value. In essence, Google interprets a link from page A to page B as a vote, by page A, for page B. But, Google looks at more than the sheer volume of votes, or links a page receives; it also analyzes the page that casts the vote. Votes cast by pages that are themselves "important" weigh more heavily and help to make other pages "important."
Important, high-quality sites receive a higher PageRank, which Google remembers each time it conducts a search. Of course, important pages mean nothing to you if they don't match your query. So, Google combines PageRank with sophisticated text-matching techniques to find pages that are both important and relevant to your search. Google goes far beyond the number of times a term appears on a page and examines all aspects of the page's content (and the content of the pages linking to it) to determine if it's a good match for your query.
")
Which of course is usually exactly what I want. Unless I have a phrase stuck in my mind like "but that the dread". In that case, like those upon whom I frowned a year or two upon, I head over to Altavista "as a last resort after Google fails" (sigh) and use it's all-but RegEx features.
Robert Viragh.
~ - From http://www.lang.nagoya-u.ac.jp/~matsuoka/EG-Clare
-
Re:Prepositions need love too
It says it's ignoring them, but the top few "hits" typically do include the exact page. I just tried, for instance, "All your base are belong to us". It claims to ignore "are" and "to" but the top few hits contain the exact phrase. (The same happens with your example "Hail to the chief", though it says it's ignoring "to the".)
You're such an f'ing troll, I was about to say anonymously, but then how can you have such a low ID? Sigh. Here goes my rant.
"I tried, for instance, 'All your base are belong to us'." Yeah. Uh-huh. That phrase is so frequent that if I hear "base belong" I think of that phrase. Hell: here's the word belong on google. Four of the top ten searches, including the top two, highlight "belong" in the full phrase "all your base are belong to us" visible in the summary. What were you smoking? Man.
My point, dear rsidd, just so I'm not being flamebait, is that if you want to see how Google treats your phrases, pick a random phrase out of a book you know is an etext, not too common, and see if you can find that etext based on that short word. Let's say you remember the phrase "but that the dread" of something after death, but you're only sure of the first part. What's this from? (Hamlet's soliloquy. "Who would fardels bear...but that the dread of something after death...puzzles [paralyzes] the will [to end the bad things] and makes us rather bear those ills we have than fly to others we know not of....")
Now look here:
+"+but +that +the +dread"
Returns:
"Results 1 - 10 of about 3,410"
(none of these includes the phrase I searched on.)
Now this:
+"+but +that +the +dread" -Hamlet -Shakespeare
Returns:
"Results 1 - 10 of about 2,480"
In other words, after I make sure that Hamlet's quotation was not just lurking on another page past the first ten that I looked at, I saw how many pages of the 3,410 could possibly have to do with the quotation I was looking for. Only 930 (subtract above).
Now let's look at a full-fledged full-text search engine, Altavista. (no affiliation, but I use altavista whenever I need a phrase and don't care how popular or "valued" the site is that it appears on--do you know that Google adjusts importance based on how much linkage a site gets on other sites? This doesn't mesh with phrase-based searching.)
Anyway,
"but that the dread"
on altavista returns, not surprisingly, a top ten pages that EACH (every one of the ten) reference Hamlet's soliloquy. (Althoguh one is a satire including the phrase and being about a cat. It begins
"To go outside, and there perchance to stay
Or to remain within: that is the question:" and includes the phrase I searched on).
Total number of search results returned with the above search?
"We found 434 results:"
Now bear in mind that Google couldn't even come up with the phrase, however much I +'d it to death, on its top ten list. If I only have that one phrase in memory on Google, I can't find it. Period. But what if I want more power than just that. What if I wasn't just looking for it (because if I had been, I might include words like "play" or "shakespeare", which I could reasonably guess is where I got the phrase stuck in my mind from), but rather, for instance, wanted to know how many times anyone on the Internet (that a search engine indexes) has used the words "but that the dread", except in quoting Shakespeare. Therefore, the following progression. (After each one, I looked at the top ten pages and added a phrase to eliminate one or more of them).
"but that the dread"
We found 434 results:
"but that the dread" -Hamlet -Shakespeare
We found 65 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare (lowercase this time, because Altavista treates uppercase as forced-uppercase and lowercase as either.)
We found 48 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare -"that is the question" (Still fairly clearly an allusion to Shakespeare.)
We found 13 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare -"that is the question" -"whether 'tis"
We found 8 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare -"that is the question" -"whether 'tis" -"undiscover'd country"
We found 7 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare -"that is the question" -"whether 'tis" -"undiscover'd country" -"undiscovered country"
We found 4 results:
The four results?- From http://www.lang.nagoya-u.ac.jp/~matsuoka/EG-Clare
. html:
"
The sound seemed taken out of her voice; it was husky as the notes on an old harpsichord when the strings have ceased to vibrate. She read her answer in my face, I suppose, for I could not speak. Her look was one of intense fear, but that died away into an aspect of most humble patience. At length she seemed to force herself to face behind and around her: she saw the purple moors, the blue distant hills, quivering in the sunlight, but nothing else.
'Will you take me home?' she said meekly.
I took her by the hand, and led her silently through the budding heather - we dared not speak; for we could not tell but that the dread creature was listening, although unseen - but that IT might appear and push us asunder. I never loved her more fondly than now when - and that was the unspeakable misery - the idea of her was becoming so inextricably blended with the shuddering thought of IT. She seemed to understand what I must be feeling. She let go my hand, which she had kept clasped until then, when we reached the garden gate, and went forwards to meet her anxious friend, who was standing by the window looking for her. I could not enter the house: I needed silence, society, leisure, change - I knew not what - to shake off the sensation of that creature's presence. Yet I lingered about the garden - I hardly know why; partly, I suppose, because I feared to encounter the resemblance again on the solitary common, where it had vanished, and partly from a feeling of inexpressible compassion for Lucy. In a few minutes Mistress Clarke came forth and joined me. We walked some paces in silence.
"
- From http://www.clareweb.com/eolas/coclare/history/dut
t on_su rvey/dutton_survey_chapter5.5.htm:
"
Mr. Ledwich, in his Epitome of the Antiquities of Ireland, says, that in the reign of King John the clergy did not receive any tithes; the veneration for the church at that time was so great, that regulations were unnecessary; they were supported by oblations. The piety of modern times, I fear, would influence but very small collections. The whole ecclesiastical revenue to a late period was divided into four parts, one to the Bishop, one to the clergy, one to the poor, and one to support the church and other uses, and he says this mode exists at this day in the diocese of Clonfert.
To throw as much light on this subject as possible, I shall make a few extracts from Mr. Rawson's admirable Survey of Kildare, lately published. In page 27 he mentions one tithe-dealer having exacted thirty shillings per acre for wheat;** "the dread of citation, and the loss of his straw, made the timorous ploughman yield to any terms." Again, page 31, "It must appear evident to every man, that the entire weight of the church establishment falls on the sweat from the brow of industry, whilst the feeder of one thousand bullocks does not pay as much as the herdsman for his garden. Can it be denied, but that the dread of tithe keeps much land in pasture, which would otherwise give bread to thousands, encrease population twenty-fold, do away all necessity of emigration, and make little Ireland not only a granary to England, but to the whole world." In page 33, and which deserves peculiar attention, "The assertors, that the titles to tithes and to estates are of equal strength, should consider that, if estates were to be let at undefined rents from year to year, and the landlord at each harvest to view the crops and exact some proportion in lieu of rent, would any occupier in such case be anxious to till or improve? Would not the kingdom soon become a dreary uninhabited waste? Yet exactly such is the conduct towards the tenth of the produce, the tithe. Let the land-holder be ascertained at what yearly rent he is to pay for one and the other, and all complaint is at an end.[...]
"
- From http://www.victorybaptist.org/books/johnbunyan/fe
a rofgod/part1.htm:
"
3. Add to this the revelation of God's goodness, and it must needs make his presence dreadful to us; for when a poor defiled creature shall see that this great God hath, notwithstanding his greatness, goodness in his heart, and mercy to bestow upon him: this makes his presence yet the more dreadful. They "shall fear the Lord and his goodness" (Hosea 3:5). The goodness as well as the greatness of God doth beget in the heart of his elect an awful reverence of his majesty. "Fear ye not me? saith the Lord; will ye not tremble at my presence?" And then, to engage us in our soul to the duty, he adds one of his wonderful mercies to the world, for a motive, "Fear ye not me?" Why, who are thou? He answers, Even I, "which have" set, or "placed the sand for the bound of the sea by a perpetual decree, that it cannot pass it; and though the waves thereof toss themselves, yet can they not prevail; though they roar, yet can they not pass over it?" (Jer 5:22). Also, when Job had God present with him, making manifest the goodness of his great heart to him, what doth he say? how doth he behave himself in his presence? "I have heard of thee," says he, "by the hearing of the ear, but now mine eye seeth thee; wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes" (Job 42:5,6).
And what mean the tremblings, the tears, those breakings and shakings of heart that attend the people of God, when in an eminent manner they receive the pronunciation of the forgiveness of sins at his mouth, but that the dread of the majesty of God is in their sight mixed therewith? God must appear like himself, speak to the soul like himself; nor can the sinner, when under these glorious discoveries of his Lord and Saviour, keep out the beams of his majesty from the eyes of his understanding. "I will cleanse them," saith he, "from all their iniquity, whereby they have sinned against me, and I will pardon all their iniquities whereby they have sinned, and whereby they have transgressed against me." And what then? "And they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness, and for all the prosperity that I procure unto it" (Jer 33:8,9). Alas! there is a company of poor, light, frothy professors in the world, that carry it under that which they call the presence of God, more like to antics, than sober sensible Christians; yea, more like to a fool of a play, than those that have the presence of God. They would not carry it so in the presence of a king, nor yet of the lord of their land, were they but receivers of mercy at his hand. They carry it even in their most eminent seasons, as if the sense and sight of God, and his blessed grace to their souls in Christ, had a tendency in them to make men wanton: but indeed it is the most humbling and heart-breaking sight in the world; it is fearful.
"
- From http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~turing/T/003397
. html:
"
But that the dread of someone else could win that game, puzzles the will and makes us rather bear those ills we have. Thus conscience does make cowards of us all; and thus the native hue of resolution is sicklied over with the pale cast of thought, and enterprises of great pith and moment. With this regard their currents turn awry, and lose the name of action.
"
(This last attempts to quote the original, except the phrase "could win the game".)
This startling conclusion is one that you could not find with Google, which could not even be bothered to find for you where the phrase "but that the dread" comes from. Apparently each of Altavista's 434 original results, except these latter three, are correct positives. (In the sense that the phrase is from the context in which I heard it, as a part of a soliloquy in Hamlet.)
I used to use Altavista and was sad to hear at a conference held by some technology head at it here in Boston, that lots of people only use Altavista as a "backup" in case Google can't find what they're looking for. He was very proud of the idea that Altavista didn't have what he called "stop words" (Google's "the" "a", etc), but rather full-text indexing. (He did mention that only the first 378K of a text were indexed or something, but I think any document that long is also avaialable for download somewhere in chapters...). Anyway at that time I was saddened that Altavista wasn't doing too well, it was what I used, since it seemed like it had an expert, powerful system. (With such conveniences as a NEAR keyword to show that two phrases mustn't just occur within the same document but within several words of each other. The back-end, but not the user interface, he told some of us afterward over refreshments, was fully Regular Expression, and an expert user could combine things like boolean operators with NEAR and a few other keywords (up to an impressive depth) to get basically any query she wanted.
Today I use Google because, chances are, the site that I'm interested in is the one other people are interested in who know about that subject. (From Google's site:
"
PageRank Explained
PageRank relies on the uniquely democratic nature of the web by using its vast link structure as an indicator of an individual page's value. In essence, Google interprets a link from page A to page B as a vote, by page A, for page B. But, Google looks at more than the sheer volume of votes, or links a page receives; it also analyzes the page that casts the vote. Votes cast by pages that are themselves "important" weigh more heavily and help to make other pages "important."
Important, high-quality sites receive a higher PageRank, which Google remembers each time it conducts a search. Of course, important pages mean nothing to you if they don't match your query. So, Google combines PageRank with sophisticated text-matching techniques to find pages that are both important and relevant to your search. Google goes far beyond the number of times a term appears on a page and examines all aspects of the page's content (and the content of the pages linking to it) to determine if it's a good match for your query.
")
Which of course is usually exactly what I want. Unless I have a phrase stuck in my mind like "but that the dread". In that case, like those upon whom I frowned a year or two upon, I head over to Altavista "as a last resort after Google fails" (sigh) and use it's all-but RegEx features.
Robert Viragh.
~ - From http://www.lang.nagoya-u.ac.jp/~matsuoka/EG-Clare
-
Re:Prepositions need love too
It says it's ignoring them, but the top few "hits" typically do include the exact page. I just tried, for instance, "All your base are belong to us". It claims to ignore "are" and "to" but the top few hits contain the exact phrase. (The same happens with your example "Hail to the chief", though it says it's ignoring "to the".)
You're such an f'ing troll, I was about to say anonymously, but then how can you have such a low ID? Sigh. Here goes my rant.
"I tried, for instance, 'All your base are belong to us'." Yeah. Uh-huh. That phrase is so frequent that if I hear "base belong" I think of that phrase. Hell: here's the word belong on google. Four of the top ten searches, including the top two, highlight "belong" in the full phrase "all your base are belong to us" visible in the summary. What were you smoking? Man.
My point, dear rsidd, just so I'm not being flamebait, is that if you want to see how Google treats your phrases, pick a random phrase out of a book you know is an etext, not too common, and see if you can find that etext based on that short word. Let's say you remember the phrase "but that the dread" of something after death, but you're only sure of the first part. What's this from? (Hamlet's soliloquy. "Who would fardels bear...but that the dread of something after death...puzzles [paralyzes] the will [to end the bad things] and makes us rather bear those ills we have than fly to others we know not of....")
Now look here:
+"+but +that +the +dread"
Returns:
"Results 1 - 10 of about 3,410"
(none of these includes the phrase I searched on.)
Now this:
+"+but +that +the +dread" -Hamlet -Shakespeare
Returns:
"Results 1 - 10 of about 2,480"
In other words, after I make sure that Hamlet's quotation was not just lurking on another page past the first ten that I looked at, I saw how many pages of the 3,410 could possibly have to do with the quotation I was looking for. Only 930 (subtract above).
Now let's look at a full-fledged full-text search engine, Altavista. (no affiliation, but I use altavista whenever I need a phrase and don't care how popular or "valued" the site is that it appears on--do you know that Google adjusts importance based on how much linkage a site gets on other sites? This doesn't mesh with phrase-based searching.)
Anyway,
"but that the dread"
on altavista returns, not surprisingly, a top ten pages that EACH (every one of the ten) reference Hamlet's soliloquy. (Althoguh one is a satire including the phrase and being about a cat. It begins
"To go outside, and there perchance to stay
Or to remain within: that is the question:" and includes the phrase I searched on).
Total number of search results returned with the above search?
"We found 434 results:"
Now bear in mind that Google couldn't even come up with the phrase, however much I +'d it to death, on its top ten list. If I only have that one phrase in memory on Google, I can't find it. Period. But what if I want more power than just that. What if I wasn't just looking for it (because if I had been, I might include words like "play" or "shakespeare", which I could reasonably guess is where I got the phrase stuck in my mind from), but rather, for instance, wanted to know how many times anyone on the Internet (that a search engine indexes) has used the words "but that the dread", except in quoting Shakespeare. Therefore, the following progression. (After each one, I looked at the top ten pages and added a phrase to eliminate one or more of them).
"but that the dread"
We found 434 results:
"but that the dread" -Hamlet -Shakespeare
We found 65 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare (lowercase this time, because Altavista treates uppercase as forced-uppercase and lowercase as either.)
We found 48 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare -"that is the question" (Still fairly clearly an allusion to Shakespeare.)
We found 13 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare -"that is the question" -"whether 'tis"
We found 8 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare -"that is the question" -"whether 'tis" -"undiscover'd country"
We found 7 results:
"but that the dread" -hamlet -shakespeare -"that is the question" -"whether 'tis" -"undiscover'd country" -"undiscovered country"
We found 4 results:
The four results?- From http://www.lang.nagoya-u.ac.jp/~matsuoka/EG-Clare
. html:
"
The sound seemed taken out of her voice; it was husky as the notes on an old harpsichord when the strings have ceased to vibrate. She read her answer in my face, I suppose, for I could not speak. Her look was one of intense fear, but that died away into an aspect of most humble patience. At length she seemed to force herself to face behind and around her: she saw the purple moors, the blue distant hills, quivering in the sunlight, but nothing else.
'Will you take me home?' she said meekly.
I took her by the hand, and led her silently through the budding heather - we dared not speak; for we could not tell but that the dread creature was listening, although unseen - but that IT might appear and push us asunder. I never loved her more fondly than now when - and that was the unspeakable misery - the idea of her was becoming so inextricably blended with the shuddering thought of IT. She seemed to understand what I must be feeling. She let go my hand, which she had kept clasped until then, when we reached the garden gate, and went forwards to meet her anxious friend, who was standing by the window looking for her. I could not enter the house: I needed silence, society, leisure, change - I knew not what - to shake off the sensation of that creature's presence. Yet I lingered about the garden - I hardly know why; partly, I suppose, because I feared to encounter the resemblance again on the solitary common, where it had vanished, and partly from a feeling of inexpressible compassion for Lucy. In a few minutes Mistress Clarke came forth and joined me. We walked some paces in silence.
"
- From http://www.clareweb.com/eolas/coclare/history/dut
t on_su rvey/dutton_survey_chapter5.5.htm:
"
Mr. Ledwich, in his Epitome of the Antiquities of Ireland, says, that in the reign of King John the clergy did not receive any tithes; the veneration for the church at that time was so great, that regulations were unnecessary; they were supported by oblations. The piety of modern times, I fear, would influence but very small collections. The whole ecclesiastical revenue to a late period was divided into four parts, one to the Bishop, one to the clergy, one to the poor, and one to support the church and other uses, and he says this mode exists at this day in the diocese of Clonfert.
To throw as much light on this subject as possible, I shall make a few extracts from Mr. Rawson's admirable Survey of Kildare, lately published. In page 27 he mentions one tithe-dealer having exacted thirty shillings per acre for wheat;** "the dread of citation, and the loss of his straw, made the timorous ploughman yield to any terms." Again, page 31, "It must appear evident to every man, that the entire weight of the church establishment falls on the sweat from the brow of industry, whilst the feeder of one thousand bullocks does not pay as much as the herdsman for his garden. Can it be denied, but that the dread of tithe keeps much land in pasture, which would otherwise give bread to thousands, encrease population twenty-fold, do away all necessity of emigration, and make little Ireland not only a granary to England, but to the whole world." In page 33, and which deserves peculiar attention, "The assertors, that the titles to tithes and to estates are of equal strength, should consider that, if estates were to be let at undefined rents from year to year, and the landlord at each harvest to view the crops and exact some proportion in lieu of rent, would any occupier in such case be anxious to till or improve? Would not the kingdom soon become a dreary uninhabited waste? Yet exactly such is the conduct towards the tenth of the produce, the tithe. Let the land-holder be ascertained at what yearly rent he is to pay for one and the other, and all complaint is at an end.[...]
"
- From http://www.victorybaptist.org/books/johnbunyan/fe
a rofgod/part1.htm:
"
3. Add to this the revelation of God's goodness, and it must needs make his presence dreadful to us; for when a poor defiled creature shall see that this great God hath, notwithstanding his greatness, goodness in his heart, and mercy to bestow upon him: this makes his presence yet the more dreadful. They "shall fear the Lord and his goodness" (Hosea 3:5). The goodness as well as the greatness of God doth beget in the heart of his elect an awful reverence of his majesty. "Fear ye not me? saith the Lord; will ye not tremble at my presence?" And then, to engage us in our soul to the duty, he adds one of his wonderful mercies to the world, for a motive, "Fear ye not me?" Why, who are thou? He answers, Even I, "which have" set, or "placed the sand for the bound of the sea by a perpetual decree, that it cannot pass it; and though the waves thereof toss themselves, yet can they not prevail; though they roar, yet can they not pass over it?" (Jer 5:22). Also, when Job had God present with him, making manifest the goodness of his great heart to him, what doth he say? how doth he behave himself in his presence? "I have heard of thee," says he, "by the hearing of the ear, but now mine eye seeth thee; wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes" (Job 42:5,6).
And what mean the tremblings, the tears, those breakings and shakings of heart that attend the people of God, when in an eminent manner they receive the pronunciation of the forgiveness of sins at his mouth, but that the dread of the majesty of God is in their sight mixed therewith? God must appear like himself, speak to the soul like himself; nor can the sinner, when under these glorious discoveries of his Lord and Saviour, keep out the beams of his majesty from the eyes of his understanding. "I will cleanse them," saith he, "from all their iniquity, whereby they have sinned against me, and I will pardon all their iniquities whereby they have sinned, and whereby they have transgressed against me." And what then? "And they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness, and for all the prosperity that I procure unto it" (Jer 33:8,9). Alas! there is a company of poor, light, frothy professors in the world, that carry it under that which they call the presence of God, more like to antics, than sober sensible Christians; yea, more like to a fool of a play, than those that have the presence of God. They would not carry it so in the presence of a king, nor yet of the lord of their land, were they but receivers of mercy at his hand. They carry it even in their most eminent seasons, as if the sense and sight of God, and his blessed grace to their souls in Christ, had a tendency in them to make men wanton: but indeed it is the most humbling and heart-breaking sight in the world; it is fearful.
"
- From http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~turing/T/003397
. html:
"
But that the dread of someone else could win that game, puzzles the will and makes us rather bear those ills we have. Thus conscience does make cowards of us all; and thus the native hue of resolution is sicklied over with the pale cast of thought, and enterprises of great pith and moment. With this regard their currents turn awry, and lose the name of action.
"
(This last attempts to quote the original, except the phrase "could win the game".)
This startling conclusion is one that you could not find with Google, which could not even be bothered to find for you where the phrase "but that the dread" comes from. Apparently each of Altavista's 434 original results, except these latter three, are correct positives. (In the sense that the phrase is from the context in which I heard it, as a part of a soliloquy in Hamlet.)
I used to use Altavista and was sad to hear at a conference held by some technology head at it here in Boston, that lots of people only use Altavista as a "backup" in case Google can't find what they're looking for. He was very proud of the idea that Altavista didn't have what he called "stop words" (Google's "the" "a", etc), but rather full-text indexing. (He did mention that only the first 378K of a text were indexed or something, but I think any document that long is also avaialable for download somewhere in chapters...). Anyway at that time I was saddened that Altavista wasn't doing too well, it was what I used, since it seemed like it had an expert, powerful system. (With such conveniences as a NEAR keyword to show that two phrases mustn't just occur within the same document but within several words of each other. The back-end, but not the user interface, he told some of us afterward over refreshments, was fully Regular Expression, and an expert user could combine things like boolean operators with NEAR and a few other keywords (up to an impressive depth) to get basically any query she wanted.
Today I use Google because, chances are, the site that I'm interested in is the one other people are interested in who know about that subject. (From Google's site:
"
PageRank Explained
PageRank relies on the uniquely democratic nature of the web by using its vast link structure as an indicator of an individual page's value. In essence, Google interprets a link from page A to page B as a vote, by page A, for page B. But, Google looks at more than the sheer volume of votes, or links a page receives; it also analyzes the page that casts the vote. Votes cast by pages that are themselves "important" weigh more heavily and help to make other pages "important."
Important, high-quality sites receive a higher PageRank, which Google remembers each time it conducts a search. Of course, important pages mean nothing to you if they don't match your query. So, Google combines PageRank with sophisticated text-matching techniques to find pages that are both important and relevant to your search. Google goes far beyond the number of times a term appears on a page and examines all aspects of the page's content (and the content of the pages linking to it) to determine if it's a good match for your query.
")
Which of course is usually exactly what I want. Unless I have a phrase stuck in my mind like "but that the dread". In that case, like those upon whom I frowned a year or two upon, I head over to Altavista "as a last resort after Google fails" (sigh) and use it's all-but RegEx features.
Robert Viragh.
~ - From http://www.lang.nagoya-u.ac.jp/~matsuoka/EG-Clare
-
A diabolical way to redirect links...
...would be to run all pages through babelfish two or three times before the user got to view them.
Slashdot. The news for the nerds, matter which they import. -
Re:Legal? Sure -- it's a fair use by the end-user
Gotta watch that "fair-use" stuff... it's extremely limited and does not refer to modification at all. You have the right to quote small snippets in a academic context, parody, and a couple of other small things, but it does not extend to arbitrary modification.
Both systems would be an end-user activity that adds value, in the user's mind, to the information already present in the website.
First, there is no "right" to add value to somebody else's copyrighted work. If your use isn't covered under the extremely limited fair-use clauses and you don't have permission, you are legally out of luck.
The changes are not made on the server, they're made in the browser. Just because Opera allows you to zoom a page, is it violating fair use? No. A website delivers you some information, either free, or in exchnage for something (money, advertising data, etc.). At that point, as long as you're not duplicating it for others, it's yours. You can feed it through a program to do word-count analysis, you can feed it to a translation program, you can feed it to a program which shows you how it looks to people with color-blindness or other vision impairments, you can insert your own commentary on the page, you can rot13 it, encrypt it, delete it, etc. Copyright is about copying. If the information is delivered to you in a physical form (like a newspaper), you can destroy it, give it to someone else, etc., as long as you're not copying it.
In fact, the web gives you even more options: if the server permits, you can fetch the page through another server which translates for you, or processes the page to show you how it looks to a color-blind person. You used to be able to have whole collections of commentary on web pages, but the commentary was so useless that there's no money in it...
What Microsoft is doing is creating a filter in the users' browsers which adds complementary information. In theory (in other words, ignoring monopoly practices and considerations), users have every right to use that browser to perform that task, or to choose a different browser, to perform other information-processing tasks.
-
Re:Technically...
According to babelfish, Voulez-Vous Coucher Avec Moi translates to: Please Sleep You With Me
But Voulez-vous coucher avec moi translates to: Want you to sleep with me
I letters captial Guess difference Makes a...
----------------------- -
Oh yes!
Finally a chance to slashdot Slashdot!
And another use for the fish! Do they have carma caps there too? -
Re:Babelfish
Well, at least I'm bad at karma whoring.
:)
The direct link to the translation is here
For the attentive, the first link required you to click on the link to the german version to get the german to english translation. Whoops, my bad. -
Babelfish
Mandatory karma whoring using Bablefish
Translated German Version -
Babelfish
Mandatory karma whoring using Bablefish
Translated German Version -
Quebec law and BabelfishIf I remember correctly, Quebec province laws state that ANY business operating in the province, must use french AND english. This has been the law for many years - right or wrong. It's not like it's a new law, so the business owners had no excuse about it. With services like Babelfish, there's even less an excuse. It certainly doesn't take long to translate a bunch of english pages into french with a service like that. Especially when you can simply use a GET request URL, via babelfish, to translate the site.. and label the link something like "en français".
I don't agree with the agressiveness of the police on this matter either. They probably could've saved everyone time & money if they simply warned the business to comply with the laws by a certain time, instead of arresting them.
with 2 cents,
Dev -
So long, and thanks...Although generally known for creating humorous books about satire, science fiction, and the ludicrous nature of the human condition, there was a lot more to Adams that is worth mentioning... He was a skilled social satirist and a very forward-thinking writer, advancing the concepts of what writers could do.
He helped create the first "hit" computer game based on a novel, helped ignite the whole "books on tape" trend, brought his stories to radio and television, helped create the rich, computerized environment of "Starship Titanic" and the concept of a "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"--a massive collection of obscure hyperlinked information (before the www existed) displayed on a small handheld computer (before PDAs existed). He also created the idea of the babel fish--a universal translator, essentially. Just by writing a good yarn, he helped spur change in the world around him that has benefited all of us. We all owe a lot to the guy and to the kind of changes that one "good read" can bring. Thanks, Doug.
-
Altavista
Babelfish translator has lost his creator and maintainer.
Who will feed the fish, now ?
Maybe we should give the babelfish to Theo de Raadt, so that OpenBSD will run all hardware (past, present and future) over the universe ? And we will give back the ex-OpenBSD blowfish to the Altavista dudes, they won't see any change, anyway. -
Babelfish translation to english
here Have fun! Link.
-
Something tells me...
Kaillera will curdle.
-
They could follow Altavista's example
Altavista has changed their submit URL process. A picture of randomly created numbers and letters are shown, you have to type them in and only then you can submit your URL. They had to do this because most of the submissions were from auto-submission services, which sent 95% crap.
A similar thing could be done with the email address display within Google Groups search results. -
GNUArt !
FYI, the GNUArt Project which consists of GPL'ing Art has become reality on http://gnuart.org (charter) and http://gnuart.net (gallery) on January 1st, 2001.
The advantage of GNUArt is obvious as, instead of having yet another license, we just exploit a valid existing one.
It is still being translated to english at the moment but you have the fish until then.
The charter was co-written with Richard Stallman.
-- -
FYI - GNUArt
> The lesson that "No, you don't have to give
> up all your rights to your work in exchange
> for publication anymore" is one that
> musicians could stand to learn as well.
FYI, the GNUArt Project which consists of GPL'ing Art has become reality on http://gnuart.org (charter) and http://gnuart.net (gallery) on January 1st, 2001.
It is still being translated to english at the moment but you have the fish until then.
The charter was co-written with Richard Stallman.
-- -
Firewall MUST BE IN Alcatel 1000 or else.What good is a home-user and a firewall if the Alcatel 1000 is STILL directly and brokeningly accessible from world-wide Internet full of hackers?
Not unless there is some special firewall router box has TWO DSL ports in which one can drop between the CO and the crappy Alcatel 1000, you're better off replacing the whole thing.
It's not Efficient, if it isn't from Efficient. Excuse me for the sappy plugin, but as a security specialist, this is one of the better ones.
Must be those French mentality mindset. Moron n'importe qui?.
-
Richard Garriot CAN'T claim Moon... (Slightly OT)
Because the moon is already owned. (Link is in Spanish only; use the Fish or the Gist)
-- -
French link
According to this article (in French: use the fish), this is a bit over-hyped.
-- -
Re:wtf is bonobo?
Then perhaps you should use one of the 44,100 links at Google.
Or the 21,434 links at Altavista.
Or, try "bonobo gnome" and get 332 links at Google, and 21,462 links at Altavista.
Why in the hell should any story that is about a piece of software automatically include a complete recap of what's on the project web site? This is a news site, it's expected that not every single reader will want to view every single story, and that those who do want to view a story will possess at least a modicum of clue.
If not subject-specific clue, then at least the ability to type "www.google.com" into a web browser.
- -
Babblefish sucks
Sorry folks... I cut and paste all those links and it turns out they use some weird cookie shit... sigh...
Well anyways to see the benchmarks pop this url: http://www.rivastation.com/3dprophet4500-64mb.htm
Into http://world.altavista.com and select German to English. On the site you'll see a sidebar on the right side with links to the individual benchmarks.
-
Check your facts... answers to common FUD
If anything these benchmarks should show you how little the current hardware T&L is being used and helping performance.
The Anandtech benchmarks were done some time ago with drivers that are a month to two months old. The feedback from Anandtech, other sites, and game developers have caused some more work to be done on the drivers and the result is this:
- The so called "performance" hit in Giants was really a Giants bug... the demo shows the hit but the real game has a patch available that greatly speeds up the kyro and makes it look much nicer image quality wise
- The graphics and performance bugs found in MTBR turned out to be MTBR bugs (notice a theme here?) which were fixed in a patch by the MTBR developers. The game now runs much faster without the noted graphics bugs. (Does the GeForce3 even show textures in this game yet?
;) - Much of the Evolva DX8 benchmark penalties have been fixed (driver bug) and the Evolva people are adding features like the 8 layer multitexturing stuff that the Kyro supports but the Geforce 2 falls flat on its face with.
Some benchmarks with latest drivers and all the common tweaks which don't create combatibility problems:
http://www.rivastation.com/3dprophet4500-64mb.htm (use babblefish) Note how the GTS beats the kyro at 16bit but the Kyro beats the GTS at 32bit... at low res's the GTS wins but as the res is bumped up the GTS starts hitting bandwidth limitations which the Kyro doesn't see at all
MBTR Benchmark The GTS wins at 16bit, the Kyro wins at 32bit... GASP! What?!?! T&L didn't help the bandwidth limited GTS at 32bit?!?! OH NO!
MDK2 MDK2 is about the only game currently where T&L counts... but look at 1280x1024@32bit color the KyroII turns in an acceptible 61fps compared to the Geforce GTS's 56fps. Why? The GTS's DDR powered memory bandwidth is capped while the KyroII's smart way of rendering means its non-DDR bandwidth isn't even sweating. What good is T&L if you can't fit all the textures through your memory bus?
Full Screen Antialiasing The Kyro whipes the GTS all over the floor when FSAA is used at decent resolutions... sorry Nvidia fans, you'll have to fork out $500 for nonbroken FSAA.
And next its time to discuss the myth that the GeForce 2's T&L will be even remotely useful in a year or two... Aquanox (DX8 features) This benchmark stresses DX8 features such as the programmable T&L and all the cool features Doom3 will be using. The Kyro lays around at 10fps and misterious drops off on the highend (driver bug?). But what is shocking is look how low the GTS scores are. Even at 640x480 its not even "playable". Proof positive that the GeForce 2's onboard T&L goes out the window when DX8 takes off and its in the same boat as the Kyro.
What does this all mean? It means if you have the cash get the GeForce3... If you don't, don't bother paying all the extra cash for the Geforce2 GTS, Pros, Ultras, etc. As they will be useless with Doom 3 and friends anyways. Do what I'm going to do, pick up a Kyro II for below $150 in a month, use it for a year, and grab a next generation GeForce3 when they are at a reasonable price (> $250-$300 is not reasonable for any video card... bleh)
I'd like to also note that you obviously don't own Tribes2 or understand how fucked up an engine it is if you dare mention it in the same context as card performance. My G400 is performing much better then VooDoo5s with this game! And sub-$300 GeForce2 owners are constantly bitching about performance as $150 Radeons are beating them consistantly. When you go from quality at 100% to the lowest quality settings and you only get a 10fps boost, something is fucked up.
Ok.. I'm done ranting... hope someone found this informative
:) -
Check your facts... answers to common FUD
If anything these benchmarks should show you how little the current hardware T&L is being used and helping performance.
The Anandtech benchmarks were done some time ago with drivers that are a month to two months old. The feedback from Anandtech, other sites, and game developers have caused some more work to be done on the drivers and the result is this:
- The so called "performance" hit in Giants was really a Giants bug... the demo shows the hit but the real game has a patch available that greatly speeds up the kyro and makes it look much nicer image quality wise
- The graphics and performance bugs found in MTBR turned out to be MTBR bugs (notice a theme here?) which were fixed in a patch by the MTBR developers. The game now runs much faster without the noted graphics bugs. (Does the GeForce3 even show textures in this game yet?
;) - Much of the Evolva DX8 benchmark penalties have been fixed (driver bug) and the Evolva people are adding features like the 8 layer multitexturing stuff that the Kyro supports but the Geforce 2 falls flat on its face with.
Some benchmarks with latest drivers and all the common tweaks which don't create combatibility problems:
http://www.rivastation.com/3dprophet4500-64mb.htm (use babblefish) Note how the GTS beats the kyro at 16bit but the Kyro beats the GTS at 32bit... at low res's the GTS wins but as the res is bumped up the GTS starts hitting bandwidth limitations which the Kyro doesn't see at all
MBTR Benchmark The GTS wins at 16bit, the Kyro wins at 32bit... GASP! What?!?! T&L didn't help the bandwidth limited GTS at 32bit?!?! OH NO!
MDK2 MDK2 is about the only game currently where T&L counts... but look at 1280x1024@32bit color the KyroII turns in an acceptible 61fps compared to the Geforce GTS's 56fps. Why? The GTS's DDR powered memory bandwidth is capped while the KyroII's smart way of rendering means its non-DDR bandwidth isn't even sweating. What good is T&L if you can't fit all the textures through your memory bus?
Full Screen Antialiasing The Kyro whipes the GTS all over the floor when FSAA is used at decent resolutions... sorry Nvidia fans, you'll have to fork out $500 for nonbroken FSAA.
And next its time to discuss the myth that the GeForce 2's T&L will be even remotely useful in a year or two... Aquanox (DX8 features) This benchmark stresses DX8 features such as the programmable T&L and all the cool features Doom3 will be using. The Kyro lays around at 10fps and misterious drops off on the highend (driver bug?). But what is shocking is look how low the GTS scores are. Even at 640x480 its not even "playable". Proof positive that the GeForce 2's onboard T&L goes out the window when DX8 takes off and its in the same boat as the Kyro.
What does this all mean? It means if you have the cash get the GeForce3... If you don't, don't bother paying all the extra cash for the Geforce2 GTS, Pros, Ultras, etc. As they will be useless with Doom 3 and friends anyways. Do what I'm going to do, pick up a Kyro II for below $150 in a month, use it for a year, and grab a next generation GeForce3 when they are at a reasonable price (> $250-$300 is not reasonable for any video card... bleh)
I'd like to also note that you obviously don't own Tribes2 or understand how fucked up an engine it is if you dare mention it in the same context as card performance. My G400 is performing much better then VooDoo5s with this game! And sub-$300 GeForce2 owners are constantly bitching about performance as $150 Radeons are beating them consistantly. When you go from quality at 100% to the lowest quality settings and you only get a 10fps boost, something is fucked up.
Ok.. I'm done ranting... hope someone found this informative
:) -
Check your facts... answers to common FUD
If anything these benchmarks should show you how little the current hardware T&L is being used and helping performance.
The Anandtech benchmarks were done some time ago with drivers that are a month to two months old. The feedback from Anandtech, other sites, and game developers have caused some more work to be done on the drivers and the result is this:
- The so called "performance" hit in Giants was really a Giants bug... the demo shows the hit but the real game has a patch available that greatly speeds up the kyro and makes it look much nicer image quality wise
- The graphics and performance bugs found in MTBR turned out to be MTBR bugs (notice a theme here?) which were fixed in a patch by the MTBR developers. The game now runs much faster without the noted graphics bugs. (Does the GeForce3 even show textures in this game yet?
;) - Much of the Evolva DX8 benchmark penalties have been fixed (driver bug) and the Evolva people are adding features like the 8 layer multitexturing stuff that the Kyro supports but the Geforce 2 falls flat on its face with.
Some benchmarks with latest drivers and all the common tweaks which don't create combatibility problems:
http://www.rivastation.com/3dprophet4500-64mb.htm (use babblefish) Note how the GTS beats the kyro at 16bit but the Kyro beats the GTS at 32bit... at low res's the GTS wins but as the res is bumped up the GTS starts hitting bandwidth limitations which the Kyro doesn't see at all
MBTR Benchmark The GTS wins at 16bit, the Kyro wins at 32bit... GASP! What?!?! T&L didn't help the bandwidth limited GTS at 32bit?!?! OH NO!
MDK2 MDK2 is about the only game currently where T&L counts... but look at 1280x1024@32bit color the KyroII turns in an acceptible 61fps compared to the Geforce GTS's 56fps. Why? The GTS's DDR powered memory bandwidth is capped while the KyroII's smart way of rendering means its non-DDR bandwidth isn't even sweating. What good is T&L if you can't fit all the textures through your memory bus?
Full Screen Antialiasing The Kyro whipes the GTS all over the floor when FSAA is used at decent resolutions... sorry Nvidia fans, you'll have to fork out $500 for nonbroken FSAA.
And next its time to discuss the myth that the GeForce 2's T&L will be even remotely useful in a year or two... Aquanox (DX8 features) This benchmark stresses DX8 features such as the programmable T&L and all the cool features Doom3 will be using. The Kyro lays around at 10fps and misterious drops off on the highend (driver bug?). But what is shocking is look how low the GTS scores are. Even at 640x480 its not even "playable". Proof positive that the GeForce 2's onboard T&L goes out the window when DX8 takes off and its in the same boat as the Kyro.
What does this all mean? It means if you have the cash get the GeForce3... If you don't, don't bother paying all the extra cash for the Geforce2 GTS, Pros, Ultras, etc. As they will be useless with Doom 3 and friends anyways. Do what I'm going to do, pick up a Kyro II for below $150 in a month, use it for a year, and grab a next generation GeForce3 when they are at a reasonable price (> $250-$300 is not reasonable for any video card... bleh)
I'd like to also note that you obviously don't own Tribes2 or understand how fucked up an engine it is if you dare mention it in the same context as card performance. My G400 is performing much better then VooDoo5s with this game! And sub-$300 GeForce2 owners are constantly bitching about performance as $150 Radeons are beating them consistantly. When you go from quality at 100% to the lowest quality settings and you only get a 10fps boost, something is fucked up.
Ok.. I'm done ranting... hope someone found this informative
:) -
Check your facts... answers to common FUD
If anything these benchmarks should show you how little the current hardware T&L is being used and helping performance.
The Anandtech benchmarks were done some time ago with drivers that are a month to two months old. The feedback from Anandtech, other sites, and game developers have caused some more work to be done on the drivers and the result is this:
- The so called "performance" hit in Giants was really a Giants bug... the demo shows the hit but the real game has a patch available that greatly speeds up the kyro and makes it look much nicer image quality wise
- The graphics and performance bugs found in MTBR turned out to be MTBR bugs (notice a theme here?) which were fixed in a patch by the MTBR developers. The game now runs much faster without the noted graphics bugs. (Does the GeForce3 even show textures in this game yet?
;) - Much of the Evolva DX8 benchmark penalties have been fixed (driver bug) and the Evolva people are adding features like the 8 layer multitexturing stuff that the Kyro supports but the Geforce 2 falls flat on its face with.
Some benchmarks with latest drivers and all the common tweaks which don't create combatibility problems:
http://www.rivastation.com/3dprophet4500-64mb.htm (use babblefish) Note how the GTS beats the kyro at 16bit but the Kyro beats the GTS at 32bit... at low res's the GTS wins but as the res is bumped up the GTS starts hitting bandwidth limitations which the Kyro doesn't see at all
MBTR Benchmark The GTS wins at 16bit, the Kyro wins at 32bit... GASP! What?!?! T&L didn't help the bandwidth limited GTS at 32bit?!?! OH NO!
MDK2 MDK2 is about the only game currently where T&L counts... but look at 1280x1024@32bit color the KyroII turns in an acceptible 61fps compared to the Geforce GTS's 56fps. Why? The GTS's DDR powered memory bandwidth is capped while the KyroII's smart way of rendering means its non-DDR bandwidth isn't even sweating. What good is T&L if you can't fit all the textures through your memory bus?
Full Screen Antialiasing The Kyro whipes the GTS all over the floor when FSAA is used at decent resolutions... sorry Nvidia fans, you'll have to fork out $500 for nonbroken FSAA.
And next its time to discuss the myth that the GeForce 2's T&L will be even remotely useful in a year or two... Aquanox (DX8 features) This benchmark stresses DX8 features such as the programmable T&L and all the cool features Doom3 will be using. The Kyro lays around at 10fps and misterious drops off on the highend (driver bug?). But what is shocking is look how low the GTS scores are. Even at 640x480 its not even "playable". Proof positive that the GeForce 2's onboard T&L goes out the window when DX8 takes off and its in the same boat as the Kyro.
What does this all mean? It means if you have the cash get the GeForce3... If you don't, don't bother paying all the extra cash for the Geforce2 GTS, Pros, Ultras, etc. As they will be useless with Doom 3 and friends anyways. Do what I'm going to do, pick up a Kyro II for below $150 in a month, use it for a year, and grab a next generation GeForce3 when they are at a reasonable price (> $250-$300 is not reasonable for any video card... bleh)
I'd like to also note that you obviously don't own Tribes2 or understand how fucked up an engine it is if you dare mention it in the same context as card performance. My G400 is performing much better then VooDoo5s with this game! And sub-$300 GeForce2 owners are constantly bitching about performance as $150 Radeons are beating them consistantly. When you go from quality at 100% to the lowest quality settings and you only get a 10fps boost, something is fucked up.
Ok.. I'm done ranting... hope someone found this informative
:) -
Check your facts... answers to common FUD
If anything these benchmarks should show you how little the current hardware T&L is being used and helping performance.
The Anandtech benchmarks were done some time ago with drivers that are a month to two months old. The feedback from Anandtech, other sites, and game developers have caused some more work to be done on the drivers and the result is this:
- The so called "performance" hit in Giants was really a Giants bug... the demo shows the hit but the real game has a patch available that greatly speeds up the kyro and makes it look much nicer image quality wise
- The graphics and performance bugs found in MTBR turned out to be MTBR bugs (notice a theme here?) which were fixed in a patch by the MTBR developers. The game now runs much faster without the noted graphics bugs. (Does the GeForce3 even show textures in this game yet?
;) - Much of the Evolva DX8 benchmark penalties have been fixed (driver bug) and the Evolva people are adding features like the 8 layer multitexturing stuff that the Kyro supports but the Geforce 2 falls flat on its face with.
Some benchmarks with latest drivers and all the common tweaks which don't create combatibility problems:
http://www.rivastation.com/3dprophet4500-64mb.htm (use babblefish) Note how the GTS beats the kyro at 16bit but the Kyro beats the GTS at 32bit... at low res's the GTS wins but as the res is bumped up the GTS starts hitting bandwidth limitations which the Kyro doesn't see at all
MBTR Benchmark The GTS wins at 16bit, the Kyro wins at 32bit... GASP! What?!?! T&L didn't help the bandwidth limited GTS at 32bit?!?! OH NO!
MDK2 MDK2 is about the only game currently where T&L counts... but look at 1280x1024@32bit color the KyroII turns in an acceptible 61fps compared to the Geforce GTS's 56fps. Why? The GTS's DDR powered memory bandwidth is capped while the KyroII's smart way of rendering means its non-DDR bandwidth isn't even sweating. What good is T&L if you can't fit all the textures through your memory bus?
Full Screen Antialiasing The Kyro whipes the GTS all over the floor when FSAA is used at decent resolutions... sorry Nvidia fans, you'll have to fork out $500 for nonbroken FSAA.
And next its time to discuss the myth that the GeForce 2's T&L will be even remotely useful in a year or two... Aquanox (DX8 features) This benchmark stresses DX8 features such as the programmable T&L and all the cool features Doom3 will be using. The Kyro lays around at 10fps and misterious drops off on the highend (driver bug?). But what is shocking is look how low the GTS scores are. Even at 640x480 its not even "playable". Proof positive that the GeForce 2's onboard T&L goes out the window when DX8 takes off and its in the same boat as the Kyro.
What does this all mean? It means if you have the cash get the GeForce3... If you don't, don't bother paying all the extra cash for the Geforce2 GTS, Pros, Ultras, etc. As they will be useless with Doom 3 and friends anyways. Do what I'm going to do, pick up a Kyro II for below $150 in a month, use it for a year, and grab a next generation GeForce3 when they are at a reasonable price (> $250-$300 is not reasonable for any video card... bleh)
I'd like to also note that you obviously don't own Tribes2 or understand how fucked up an engine it is if you dare mention it in the same context as card performance. My G400 is performing much better then VooDoo5s with this game! And sub-$300 GeForce2 owners are constantly bitching about performance as $150 Radeons are beating them consistantly. When you go from quality at 100% to the lowest quality settings and you only get a 10fps boost, something is fucked up.
Ok.. I'm done ranting... hope someone found this informative
:) -
Re:just learn an extra language.A slightly more accurate translation: (4 years of high-school spanish )
This comment is very stupid. If you are going to send an email to many people, it is not possible to change the language for everyone. This is the problem at hand. And many of the words in these languages are similar to the same ones in English, for example (shouldn't that have been 'por ejemplo'?) "sex" in Spanish is "sexo," and "pornography" is "pornografía."
As for the people advocating grammatical filters, it's not very hard to get around that. Just send your text through the fish once or twice, and see if any computer can parse that shit.
English-Spanish-English:
Like for the people who plead the grammar filters, he is not very hard to obtain around that. Hardly it sends its text through the fish once or twice, and sees if any computer can analyze that excrement.English-German-French-English:
As for the people who support grammatical filters, to receive is not very hard, around whose send simply your text by fish once or twice, and see, if a computer can analyze these Scheisse.The only trouble is getting humans to recognize it. Alternatively you, could just insert! random punctuation mark's and Capitalization in? Your text". I wonder; if any( filter could understand, this).? Its' human readable-after just? a moment so, it wouldn't be! much more/ of an. obstacle to understanding The message than some people's terrible. Grammar!! Combine, with 1337 sp34k! for Keywords like fuc|< and/ $h1t, and your text! Is completely Filter-?proof.
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Re:just learn an extra language.A slightly more accurate translation: (4 years of high-school spanish )
This comment is very stupid. If you are going to send an email to many people, it is not possible to change the language for everyone. This is the problem at hand. And many of the words in these languages are similar to the same ones in English, for example (shouldn't that have been 'por ejemplo'?) "sex" in Spanish is "sexo," and "pornography" is "pornografía."
As for the people advocating grammatical filters, it's not very hard to get around that. Just send your text through the fish once or twice, and see if any computer can parse that shit.
English-Spanish-English:
Like for the people who plead the grammar filters, he is not very hard to obtain around that. Hardly it sends its text through the fish once or twice, and sees if any computer can analyze that excrement.English-German-French-English:
As for the people who support grammatical filters, to receive is not very hard, around whose send simply your text by fish once or twice, and see, if a computer can analyze these Scheisse.The only trouble is getting humans to recognize it. Alternatively you, could just insert! random punctuation mark's and Capitalization in? Your text". I wonder; if any( filter could understand, this).? Its' human readable-after just? a moment so, it wouldn't be! much more/ of an. obstacle to understanding The message than some people's terrible. Grammar!! Combine, with 1337 sp34k! for Keywords like fuc|< and/ $h1t, and your text! Is completely Filter-?proof.
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Re:just learn an extra language.A slightly more accurate translation: (4 years of high-school spanish )
This comment is very stupid. If you are going to send an email to many people, it is not possible to change the language for everyone. This is the problem at hand. And many of the words in these languages are similar to the same ones in English, for example (shouldn't that have been 'por ejemplo'?) "sex" in Spanish is "sexo," and "pornography" is "pornografía."
As for the people advocating grammatical filters, it's not very hard to get around that. Just send your text through the fish once or twice, and see if any computer can parse that shit.
English-Spanish-English:
Like for the people who plead the grammar filters, he is not very hard to obtain around that. Hardly it sends its text through the fish once or twice, and sees if any computer can analyze that excrement.English-German-French-English:
As for the people who support grammatical filters, to receive is not very hard, around whose send simply your text by fish once or twice, and see, if a computer can analyze these Scheisse.The only trouble is getting humans to recognize it. Alternatively you, could just insert! random punctuation mark's and Capitalization in? Your text". I wonder; if any( filter could understand, this).? Its' human readable-after just? a moment so, it wouldn't be! much more/ of an. obstacle to understanding The message than some people's terrible. Grammar!! Combine, with 1337 sp34k! for Keywords like fuc|< and/ $h1t, and your text! Is completely Filter-?proof.
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Re:You think this will make it /better/?aw, heck there are more things to comment about...
"However, I still have to disagree. If you are likely to want the contents of a non-English URL, you're going to need a non-English viewer of some kind, and if you already have that, then the input method is only a tiny step beyond."
The premise that only people speaking the language of a website will be interested in it is narrow minded to the extreme. Several examples that immediately spring to mind:
- how do you explain the existence of babel.altavista.com?
- have you ever gone searching for a driver update for your new fangled computer doodad on some Taiwanese web site? now imagine trying to do that when the website name is in Taiwanese...
- what about tourists (American or Chinese) trying to reserve a train ticket, online, in Germany, a classicaly "German only" affair by your reckoning? No more tickets for net savvy tourists because they can't type Os with umlauts?!?
- what do you do if you are trilingual? Dual boot Windows Me?!?
"Thirdly, there would be terrible political consequences to forcing everyone to use ASCII. It would very quickly be perverted into an East versus West issue."
This one is ridiculous. ASCII letters are the tool to navigate the web. Just like the browser and its back button. It is not ideal but it is still just a tool. Saying it will turn into a religious war is just plain alarmist.
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AltaVista hates Lynx
Of course, you'd need to use this technique with a search engine who takes dead link submissions. Eg., Altavista and its "Add or Remove a Page" link
AltaVista does not allow submissions from visually impaired users or users of text-based web browsers such as Lynx, Links, or w3m. Its submission page uses a GIF image (burn all GIFs) to display rotated text in various fonts. The user is supposed to read the text and enter it into a field below. But visually impaired users, users on text browsers, and users on browsers whose developers have been cease-and-desisted by Unisys never see the GIF and cannot contribute links to AltaVista.