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Grassroots efforts to get networks to use different root servers have been tried before, like AlterNIC. It didn't help when the co-founder was arrested, however, there have been other attempts if my memory serves.

Netsol was too entrenched, and getting thousands and thousands of networks to switch.. well the task is difficult to say the least.

Now we have an entrenched and (US) government-supported ICANN and Verisign, not to mention hundreds of new registrars. I think it's only going to get harder to accomplish what you propose.

AlterNIC was trying to do exactly this for a long time. The problem is, you need existing root servers and DNS servers to use your server as a root server. How does my company's DNS server (ns.fooinc.com) know about foo.bar-nic.baz (the root server for the .baz TLD)? I have to tell it -- and every DNS admin needs to be told about foo.bar-nic.baz. That's the problem. It's a wonderful idea otherwise, and I'd be all for it.

jsm writes:

On another front, it really seems to me that if all the sysadmins are pissed off at NSI, we could all start pointing our DNS's to an alternate root DNS server (maybe in addition to NSI). What, > exactly, is stopping us from doing this? Even if only half the sysadmins did it, the others would follow suit so as not to lose access to all those alternate domains.

check out name.space (www.namespace.org).

You can set your pc's nameserver to one of namespace's, and get to sites such as http://black.hole, http://acronym.soup, http://b92.radio, http://babe.cam, and http://sperm.bank (as well as the boring old .coms, .nets, .edus et cetera.)

These new TLDs form a kind of half-there web underground. name.space has registered hundreds of new TLDs (Top Level Domains)... excessive quantity, maybe, but a cool idea.

Interestingly, their policy is to protect "whois" information of their clients.

From the "about us" page of their site ( www.namespace.org/about/):

The Name.Space project was begun in 1996 by a group of artists and net-workers who were concerned about threats to privacy and free speech, and increasing access costs brought about by the Network Solutions, Inc. monopoly control over the Domain Name System, and the general commercialization of the net.

Name.Space set out to provide fast, inexpensive domain name registration, and to set up new toplevel domains (TLDs) to increase choice and free expression that was otherwise lacking in the legacy monopoly situation, dominated by NSI. As a result, Name.Space implemented the first truly self-service and fully automated domain name registration system with secure online account management and client access to domain name data, and the first to allow "unlisted" domain information (billing contact is not disclosed, and other info may be restricted to protect the domain holder's privacy).

I found them one day when I idly typed " www.alternic.net" into netscape, and found a link to name.space. (the alternic page is currently "down for construction")

A fascinating idea, many small registration services. What it (possibly) destroys, is the idea that ALL domain names (and therefore internet resources) are accessible from everywhere, because of this monster global database (interNIC). The formation of many unregulated and unorganized registration services is the fragmentation, in some sense, of the internet, into many little niches and cliques. These many name spaces (to borrow name.space's name) might overlap, but still seem very distinct. Perhaps, however, this is necesary-- it would in many ways model other media and facets of society; perhaps this is a good thing, when the web is growing at the fantastic rate that it is.

Very interested in the ideas of the Slashdot Cyber-Futurologicists.

rh

Where is AlterNIC in all this? I remember them pressing the issue a long time ago. Especially Eugene Kashpureff redirecting internic.net, going into hiding, and eventually turning himself in. Anyone know what's up with AlterNIC? [peer@www null]$ nslookup alter.nic Server: www.lilithfair.org Address: 208.13.14.4 Name: alter.nic Address: 206.191.128.47 Good old alternate TLDs...

There are other solutions... try http://www.alternic.net.

AlterNIC is a "cool" idea, but it's hardly a viable alternative for anybody right now. AlterNIC domains only work from sites which have added their info to their root servers info.

It's difficult to find any DNS servers that do have the AlterNIC TLDs added in. More importantly, it's even more difficult to find systems configured by default with the AlterNIC TLDs preconfigured.

If you want to use a domain to do business or reach people, "an-overly-long-domain-name.com" will still have a better chance than a nice, short, AlterNIC domain. Why? Because only a trivially small percentage of people will have any chance of reaching your domain unless you have a domain that's in the "standard" list of TLDs.

And if you were brave enough to try and register and 'push' both domains, you'd be running too much of a risk that lots of people would try the AlterNIC domain and give up without trying the 'normal' domain.

It'd be nice if AlterNIC were a viable alternative, but it's currently nowhere close to being that. Too bad.

There are other solutions... try http://www.alternic.net.

I want to log in to h-t-t-p-colon-slash-slash-slash-dot-dot-dot-slash

Alternic is the one I think you mean.

My current home-lan's DNS points to alternic servers.

re: "..an alternate DNS scheme happening some time ago. Does anybody have info on this? "

There have been attempts to institute alternate systems in the past, and still are. One of which I am aware is alternic. They can be found at:

http://www.alternic.net/

Good Point about the inherent weakness of centralisation in the naming system.

A workable naming system is needed, but the prime directive behind the internet was supposed to be rerouting around damaged (incinerated) nodes. It is a convenience to have a domain naming system that is consistent across all parts of the net, but only a convenience.

But, if that is the way it is, then the "master" host file for registration definitely should be stored in more than one place.

My point is that a single domain naming system is not inherently evil, just a matter of programming convenience. And if we use it the host list must be in more than one place, and arranged so that an orderly failover can occur should the primary location go down.

Netscape might not jump on the idea of supporting an alternate dns scheme enthusiastically, given their current situation, but mozilla.org might be interested.

But is the demand there? Is it politically feasable without effort-damaging fallout? Those are the larger questions.

--vead

In my opinion, if trademarks belong in the DNS at all, it's within the domains of those government agencies registering them in the first place. Thus, the U.S. PTO could set up TM.USPTO.GOV as a placeholder for all trademarks registered there, and it would be up to them to devise a naming scheme that would allow every registered trademark to map to a valid and unique subdomain name. I wish them good luck with pictorial trademarks.

As for non-registered trademarks, establishing a registry in the form of a domain name (whether TLD or any other domain) kind of contradicts the idea of allowing non-registered trademarks in the first place.

We don't have to wait for the WIPO or any court to rule that the DNS should accomodate their view on trademarks before we set up a new system. In fact, we are well-advised to make preparations in advance, setting up an organization, devising new rules, and decide how to make an emergency transition in case a legal warhead happens to hit the present InterNIC. I suppose you don't need government authorization to join others in building a bomb shelter or stockpiling canned food?

Don't repeat AlterNIC's mistake however, that of polluting the existing namespace in order to seize control of InterNIC's web address (according to what I've heard, the guy behind AlterNIC ended up in jail for that, thanks to the InterNIC having high-ranking friends not wanting to see the integrity of .MIL being corrupted in that or any other way).

If anybody wants to test an alternate domain hierarchy, keep it well away from the current one. That goes for intellectual property lawyers too.

Has everyone forgotton that Alternic have been providing alternate TLD's for almost a year now.... ...shame nobody uses their system.