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They also had some of the boot in ROM memory back then, which allowed them to sue anyone that made a clone unless they reverse engineered the ROM. Incidentally, that was how Franklin got busted - Apple dug through the ROM (essentially BIOS) and found the string 'Apple II+' in it. The Peach (another clone) was actually a physical and ROM identical clone built in Asia. Some other cloners did reverse engineer the ROM and Apple lost the lawsuits against them, as I recall, but by then Apple was a juggernaut and they were a niche.

So I hate to break it to you, but Apple has always been IP protective as a company, even when Woz was there.

The fact that there weren't any Apple ][ clones was due more to the big diversity in personal computer models at the time than any trade secret.

Please see the site exclusively devoted to Apple II clones. Virtually all of these (a couple hundred or so) were put out of business by Apple suing them.

Don't get me wrong: I think in most of these cases, Apple had a perfect right to sue. Many of these didn't even make an attempt at being legal or legitimate at all, just using outright copies of the Apple II ROMs and selling them. AFAIK, the only company that did legal Apple II clones was VTech, who did the (in retrospect) obvious thing: they went to Microsoft and took out a license to AppleSoft, just like Apple had in the first place. Other than that, most were just taking an Apple II, copying its ROM and putting it into a machine similar to a real Apple II. Apple successfully took nearly all of these (e.g. the Pineapple, most of the Franklins) off the market via lawsuits.

Apple also sued nearly everybody over supposedly copying their GUI -- in nearly every case, it was pretty obvious that the real source was Xerox, but Apple's motto seemed to be "it's our's; we stole it first." This forced changes (mostly minor) in GEM, and (IIRC) Tandy's GUI system (sorry, I don't remember its name).

When did you get so damn anal?

A long time ago, when they shut down the entire Apple2 clone market. Yeah, that's right. People other than Apple used to make machines to run apple software. Then Apple put their foot down, and shut them all down. Thanks Apple! This is one of those much talked-about "Microsoft moves" that Apple makes, and then people forget about. Somehow, the Mac zealots manage to keep Apple smelling rosey even though Apple walks all over them.

Apple is not your friend. Apple does not want to hold your hand and walk down the beach, nor do they want to call you up on Friday to go clubbing. They are a corporation, and they don't give a damn about what it is that you want. They are all about the bottom dollar, and if it means locking the user out of some interesting possibilities, they're going to do it. This is the only reason PCs and Windows will *forever* dominate the home computer market.

Thanks, I totally agree with your statement. Many of the new generation are not aware of what happened during those days. As an owner of a Laser 128 (which I loved to death) I followed with interest Apple's destruction of the many available Apple clones which were out there. Even after that, I purchased an Apple //gs, just to watch Steve Jobs destroy that platform too, as he pitted his own engineers against each other in a ridiculous internal power struggle which eventually killed the //gs. Many of my friends ask me why I won't buy anything from Apple anymore. Well, those are a few reasons why. They have a history of screwing over their customers.

Anyone who thinks Steve Jobs is a nice guy, or is looking out for your welfare is seriously misinformed.

Thanks, I totally agree with your statement. Many of the new generation are not aware of what happened during those days. As an owner of a Laser 128 (which I loved to death) I followed with interest Apple's destruction of the many available Apple clones which were out there. Even after that, I purchased an Apple //gs, just to watch Steve Jobs destroy that platform too, as he pitted his own engineers against each other in a ridiculous internal power struggle which eventually killed the //gs. Many of my friends ask me why I won't buy anything from Apple anymore. Well, those are a few reasons why. They have a history of screwing over their customers.

Anyone who thinks Steve Jobs is a nice guy, or is looking out for your welfare is seriously misinformed.

Why not revive the Tiger Learning Computer and add a little color LCD monitor... couldnt be much different in price and has plenty of software :)
It was an all in one solid state implementation of the Apple //c
http://www.apple2clones.com/?q=image/tid/165

http://apple2clones.com/ has a HUGE list of clones.

Most were illegal, but some didn't even come with a ROM - you had to find a dead A2, and take it's ROM.

Franklin's computers used their own ROM, but Apple figured out that they stole some of their code, and that's how they got sued.

I actually had a Laser 128EX, and it was a NICE system. Some Apple software sniffed for the ROM, and if found, refused to run (Applesoft wasn't an exact copy in Laser's ROM, because then both Apple AND Microsoft would have problems with them). The only problem? QC was HORRIBLE - just by being bumped into, the speed control on the floppy drive was both thrown way out of whack and fried, making the system useless (remember, back in the day, floppy disks were the only way to go).

The Apple //c still runs, but the keyboard had water in it, so it doesn't work right, and the FDC won't work right if a second drive is plugged in (main drive speeds up to ~154us from 201us, external drive runs continuously (but at about the correct speed)).

I'll settle this one...

http://apple2clones.com/ has a LONG list of Apple II clones.

As for the Laser 128, that was the only legal clone that came with ROMs. Apple tried to sue, but lost. Basically, the precedent had already been set by Phoenix beating IBM back when they created the clone BIOS.

IIRC, the Pineapple did NOT use pirated ROMs - you had to find your own ROMs from a real Apple II. That said, they got sued, because they called it the Pineapple. They renamed it to Pinecom, and kept selling it.

One of the biggest brands of Apple II clone was Franklin, and they got sued, because (again, IIRC) they used pieces of Apple code in their ROMs and software.