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Well, once Apple finally got a numeric keypad.

Well, it had one all along, but it was originally $99 extra :) And, the key on it wasn't called "enter"... it had some sort of Martian character on it! See this picture of the original Mac numeric keyboard.

Someone just needs to hit RUN STOP-RESTORE on this whole thread. ;-)

Sorry! I was just trying to be funny, not trying to start a flame war! :)

If you're going to trot out the Apple // line, you may as well know its history.

For what it's worth, the apple/command key predates not only the dos shell, but MS-DOS itself.

Not true. These were added on the Apple //e, which antedates MS-DOS. Take a look at the Apple ][+ as compared to the Apple //e.

Same with the alt/option key.

The closed-Apple key didn't become Option until the Apple IIgs. (The IIgs unit.) They weren't even on the Apple //e Enhanced. The familiar Macintosh Cmd and Option keys, though debuted with the original model, though there was no control key. But, then, a Mac isn't an Apple //, is it?

And "backspace" is a function on a typewriter.

So is "return" (as opposed to "enter"). Your point was again? Now get off my lawn.

--Joe

(I grew up with these machines, and I remember their sometimes frustrating differences well.)

Shucks, when Lotus 1-2-3 first came out for the IBM PC (that's what we called them back then; now they are "Windows PCs"), it cost $495. Not for an office suite -- just the one application. And we paid it! Similar prices were paid for database and word processing software, such as it was. Mind you, it had a real manual that came in a three-ring binder and took up an impressive amount of shelf space above your workstation.

$500 is not too much to ask for a product with the range of features and excellent design of the iPhone. Uptake will be slow at first (as it was for the iPod), but they will sell a crapload of these babies. And no, I don't know how many Volkswagons that is...

This page has some 1980s ads from Compaq where they call their machine a "PC". (see the 386/33 ones)

http://www.aresluna.org/attached/computerhistory/a ds/international/compaq

Because that would defeat one of the advantages of owning a Mac. Please refer to the following Macintosh ad:
http://www.aresluna.org/attached/computerhistory/a ds/international/apple/pics/percon8404mac1

(read the text near the mouse) ;-)

I had already read the linked site; it's just that a lot of this stuff is disputed by other members of the original Macintosh design team . I don't understand why you take "Raskin's own words" as gospel and label the recollections of Andy Hertzfeld and Bruce Horn and Larry Tesler as pulp fiction.

I don't take Raskin's word over Hertzfeld's or Horn's word. However I do think Raskin's published thesis - with a date of 1967 - is more reliable than their hazy recollections of decades old events. I also despise hearing the "Raskin opposed the GUI" myth because (1) that all started with a Rolling Stone article and (2) it contradicts Raskin's own thesis and his life's work.

The Rolling Stone article (April 4, 1996) says that for the Mac, "Raskin was opposed to a mouse and a graphical user interface...and favored a squat design." -- David Horn

Hardly a credible source. Here's another article debunking the myth that Raskin opposed the GUI, this time from Byte Magazine, first published in 1984, so slightly more credible than the Rolling Stone article published 12 years later.

"Raskin: As a matter of fact, when I started working at Apple, the Lisa was a character-generator machine and I was the only voice saying it should be bitmapped, and I convinced the crew working on it. I guess I was also this disembodied voice that changed it from a three-button mouse to a one-button mouse at Apple - that was a big fight." -- http://www.aresluna.org/attached/computerhistory/a rticles/macintoshsotherdesigners

I see red whenever somebody repeats the myth that Raskin opposed the GUI. It doesn't gel with reality, with history, with records, with articles, with anything. It's just an urban legend.

BTW, does a link exist for the thesis in its entirety? (Not being sarcastic, I'd actually like to read it.)

I read a paper copy in university. I don't think I've ever seen an electronic version.

I would encourage interested Slashdot readers to read the link to the blog you provided and also read the folklore.org (Hertzfeld's blog) account and reach there own conclusions,

You cannot arrive at the truth by reading "both opinions" and reaching a conclusion that makes you feel comfortable. That's the technique that the Creationists are successfully using to pervert science. You can spot it a mile off because it involves phrases like "both sides" or "draw your own conclusion". You arrive at the truth by getting the facts. You get facts with experiments and research. You can't read a blog to get the truth.

Marcin Wichary has compiled a great deal of Lisa information, from screenshots, ads, brochures and articles to posters and videos, at his site GUI Gallery Guidebook. Recent postings include 17 exclusive Lisa posters for download and enjoyment, and an interview with Dan Smith that reveals "The original trash can for Apple Lisa was supposed to have been an old, beat up alley trashcan, with the lid half open, flies buzzing around it and appropriate sounds as user put something inside."

No one was even close to the ease of use that Windows offered.

It's not the victors who write history, but their fanboys.