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New Apple Campaign Target PC Flaws
sodul writes"Apple just started a new campaign to emphasize the advantages of Mac versus a regular tasteless PC. The ads represent a young cool looking man (Mac) and a white collar in his 40's (not cool, PC).
In one of the ads the PC repeat itself several times because it had to reboot. In an other one (and maybe the most aggressive of all) PC is sick because of a virus, while Mac is healthy.
You can watch the new spots on Apple's site "
w00t!
Pretty much all hate campaigns I've seen against another product just didn't work out. Logically, I'd also think that showing people how good your product is (rather than how bad the other product is) has a much more positive effect. But really, I'm not an expert on commercials. Anybody who can point me to some hate campaigns by major companies that seem(ed) to be effective?
now it all makes sense why MSN was running the other day with a story about how macs are not secure and will cause you to get viruses etc... they must have got wind of this early. Its a shame I'll never get to see these adds on TV though, the Advertising Standards Agency wouldn't let them air, they recently blocked a mac advert because it said that the CPU's job in a PC was boring... : S... I wasn't aware that CPU's could really get bored
*''I can't believe it's not a hyperlink.''
Does this mean that Apple is ready to go on the offensive and increase its marketshare?
It seems that they've been preparing for years (OS X, iLife, iPods) in fine-tuning their products and with a smoothly going Intel switch they are ready to make a substantial move into homes.
Sadly, until they get "ghosting" process smooth they won't be able to make a massive entrance into the office.
I'd predict that within 5 years, in the US homes, they'll have close to a 15-20 % marketshare (If not even more). A LOT of the people I know have already purchased Macs, and are EXTREMELY happy with them.
If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
Do you own an Intel Mac? Seems like lots of people who make the PC==Mac argument don't own an Intel Mac. I'm not attacking you, I'm just wondering. I ordered a MBP yesterday (can't wait till it gets here!) so I'm not going to comment on the hardware yet. I know that my iMac G5 is *much* better constructed than any PC I've owned (or built for that matter). Just because two computers share the same chipset, does that really make them equal? For my part, the jury is still out.
This sig kills fascists.
"In one of the ads the PC repeat itself several times because it had to reboot."
... PC is sick because of a virus, while Mac is healthy."
"In an other one
Is the submitter actually a robot manufactured by Apple to demonstrate what happens when you make a language engine out of MS Office's grammar checker?
Just seems to be a challenge to the virus writers. I expect it won't be long now.
"Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives" should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
modern Mac's are a bog standard Personal Computer (that comes with a nice box & even nicer software)
The "dumb" ones are those that hold on to the notion that the worth of a computer is solely in its hardware. That "even nicer software" is what seperates the two - the consumer on average doesn't really care much about how well the hardware can perform, he/she just cares what he/she can do with the computer (other than overclock it, give it shiny lights, or add four of those latest extreme ultra super graphics cards for $500 each).
It's all branding, so why care? Do you get in a huff when people say "ping pong" instead of "table tennis", or "kleenex" instead of "tissue"?
Tim Dorr
Owner/Manger
A Small Orange
I'm a recent Mac switcher, *love* my new iMac. These ads are funny, but Apple should be honest.
This "restart" ad is false advertising -- Windows XP is an extremely stable platform (unless Apple is referring to people who are still using Windows 98 and Windows ME -- but I don't think so).
The entire campaign smacks of Apple's vintage "lemmings" ad which didn't work because it offended their IBM using audience. This new campaign is flat out calling PC users fat dorks. The potential switcher I know are tech savvy cool users, and could potentially be offended by this portrayal.
Apple should spend more time making it easier to switch -- like including a "start menu" equivalent, using the defacto standard "ctrl-c & ctrl-v" type shortcut keys, better windows-style support for right-click instead of always having to use ctrl-click to get a pop-up menu, real windows-style "uninstall" functionality.
I love my Mac, but getting my wife comfortable with the little Mac-isms was like giving her a new car that had the gas and brake pedals backwards.
Drop the contempt for your audience, Apple, and make your computer a more seamless experience for potential switchers.
boxlight
Sorry to say this I'm more impressed with Microsoft telling me they're offering me options ("Where do you want to go today") than I'm impressed with Apple telling me that Microsoft doesn't offer options.
I'm not going to be one of the "I hate Windows so much that I'll..." people who are willing to jump in with both feet to another platform (and a credit card in hand).
Give me a reason to buy Apple, not a reason to leave Windows.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
I've got one. It is a very nice machine but it suffers from the strange high pitched whine. It's not bad, just a little irritating. Everyone should have a mac, just wait for the second generation hardware to arrive before getting one.
Hate campaigns don't work? Well look at Microsoft's current campaign, they aren't criticizing their competitors, they are criticising you. You're a dinosaur. It's been running for quite a while so I guess they think it's effective. Unfortunately I think in the longer term it could backfire, as seen for instance in a recent cartoon in the Economist portraying MS as a dinosaur.
(-1, Troll)
Interesting that they are saying PC not Windows ;-p Apple may be bold but apparently not willing to spell it out. OTOH most consumers associate PC with Windows, so it still gets the message across... but unfortunately is also maligning the rest of the former X86 club (former since now Apple is part of it too...).
Yeah, I'm just assuming that they figure people who know the difference will 'know the difference' and read between the lines.
I foresee some petty flame wars happening in tech rags though..
A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
John Hodgman is my hero and intellectual better
Mikey
I've always been the kinda guy to fall for the girl dressed like an eskimo.
Apple doesn't aim to market to people who know what they are doing with a PC (I use the term in its original context, Personal Computer, without any bias to one OS or another). They are aiming for the less tech-savvy user, and hoping to create the (not entirely incorrect) impression that Mac's are easier to use than pretty much any other OS based machine on the market.
In case you're wondering who the guy on the left is, it's John Hodgman from the Daily Show.
Seems like lots of people who make the PC==Mac argument don't own an Intel Mac.
It seems to me like lots of people who make the PC==Mac argument know what PC stands for & have been using the term PC to describe Macs through Apple's motorolla, ppc and intel days.
Have a look at these old Apple Manuals/Advertisments and you will see that Apple has been calling their products Personal Computers since day one.
It is only the post 1992 Mac Fanboy crowd that started differentiating - and quite frankly, I'm dissapointed that Apple is starting to join in.
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
Do you get in a huff when people say "ping pong" instead of "table tennis", or "kleenex" instead of "tissue"?
I would if they said "Its a kleenex, not a tissue", or "We're not playing table tennis, we prefer ping-pong."
I have no objection to people calling a mac a mac, but saying its a mac, not a PC is retarded.
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
Ever notice how Macheads never comb their hair? It must be like buying a Volkswagen.
I cried real tears when Li Mu Bai died.
Oh. I didn't really get that point in your original post. Thought your were making more of a hardware comparison. As far as the terminology goes, I agree. They're all "PC's".
Don't you think it is to Apple's advantage to promote the "difference" between Mac's and "PC's" since they've lost the distinctive of PPC vs Intel? Even if it means fudging a little bit regarding the terminology?
I noticed you didn't answer the question about owning an Intel Mac.
This sig kills fascists.
Since when is Warren Cheswick cool?
Yes, it's true. This man has no dick.
As soon as people tries to install an OS designed for generic hardware (Windows, Linux), they risk running into both driver problems, stability problems, or both, and suddenly they may get "that crappy computer" again, running on Mac hardware and Boot Camp.
As usual, running on hardware the OS is designed for is both a blessing and a curse, and most PC users I know are fully aware of what a Mac would offer and why they won't use it. But there's probably large masses of people who simply use Windows at home for Outlook, IE, and Word, and they could of course benefit from taking a look on a Mac. Or Linux with Ubuntu, if they want to get away much cheaper and happen to use supported hardware.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
I generally agree with what your saying - but I'm not sure what relevance it has to my post.
Do you disagree with me and think a Macintosh is not a Personal Computer?
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
must be RMS
There are 10 types of people in this world, those who can count in binary and those who can't.
Don't you think it is to Apple's advantage to promote the "difference" between Mac's and "PC's" since they've lost the distinctive of PPC vs Intel? Even if it means fudging a little bit regarding the terminology?
Yes, I do think that's in Apple's advantage. But they should say "windows" rather then "PC", so they don't look like retards.
I noticed you didn't answer the question about owning an Intel Mac.
No, I don't - I don't buy 1st gen mac products generally, and I'm going to wait even longer in the intel switch case.
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
I think the point about using PC here is that they can make negative comments about Windows - without actually saying Windows. They don't have to sully themselves by directly disparaging Microsoft.
Point out that a Mac is a Personal Computer if you want (it is true & I agree with you). But Joe 6-pack knows that a Mac is not a PC - a Mac is Mac and a PC is Windows. In fact he may not even know what PC stands for...
They know that in vernacular English (rather than pedantic geekspeak), "PC" means "a computer running Windows". (Most non-dumb geeks are at least aware of this fact.)
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
Those adverts are acctually quite funny. They joke about the current situation of the Windows PCs... But how long? Vista is peeping around the corner... And since I am a Debian Linux user I didn't understand why they attack the PC's so directly. Mac is also a Personal Computer aka PC, no matter how they will twist or put it to their ads. Mac OSX with Intel platform is a hi-security risk because PPC was a platform no virus makers where even targetting. Now they have ability to attack macs too. No wonder that mac has a one to five known viruses right now.. when previously there where none...
-Seeing the problem is ½ of solution-
Does Apple think a mac is a supercomputer?
c .phtml
At least in the past they did: http://www.architosh.com/news/1999-08/0831-supper
Here's 14 reasons to buy a Mac:
http://www.apple.com/getamac/
One definite reason would be that you can either run OS X or Windows or Linux - that seems like a lot more choice than only being able to run Windows.
You're trolling, but I'll bite anyways. A Mac is a personal computer (lower case, generic term), but is not a Personal Computer (upper case, brand name).
I know you're trolling, but just for the education of those who think you are insightful, please suggest a succinct name for "personal computers based on the general spec for Microsoft Windows, often including such technologies as PCI, ACPI, DDR SDRAM, Intel processors, etc, but with no specific differentiating factor, usually but not necessarily running a version of Microsoft Windows." Something that fits in nicely to "Mac vs. PC", yet conveys all the details of this subtle distinction. Once upon a time we called this "IBM-compatible", but that became absurd when IBM became a minor player in the market.
You could be arguing that there is no such thing as a Mac; i.e., that it does not make sense to unite Apple's computer products under a single brand name, but you would not argue that by attempting to subvert the typical usage of calling a PC a PC and a Mac a Mac.
I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
It's semantics. "PC" in this context means IBM PC compatible. You know, I know it, and everyone reading this knows it. Pretending to be naive about it accomplishes nothing.
English is easier said than done.
So is clinging to this brain-dead don't-get-out-much belief that your view of what these terms should mean overrides what they actually do mean to people.
(And so is calling things "retarded". What are you, 12?)
Apple did claim their G4 dowers were supercomputers, though that was a tenuous claim.
The history of the "PC" term came from the IBM model PC and it "stuck", such that it meant anything sold with DOS or Windows.
It's hardly Apple's fault that 9 out of 10 people who are going to view these ads, see Mac OS-running Apple-manufactured personal computers as "Macs" and Windows-running non-Apple-manufactured personal computers as "PCs".
And it's even hardlier a good reason to think less of the computer =P
Frog blast the vent core.
That's curious - a few years ago, I bet you would have said "PC" means "a machine running on the x86 architecture".
I'm starting to seriously question your credentials, man.
The two cases where a mac user uses the term PC are:
1) Disparagingly, as in a comparison to Macs
2) Defensively, when claiming that Macs are PCs, since PC stands for Personal Computer.
It's in Chapter 1 of How to Be an Irritating Fanboy, page 17.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
You're fighing a losing battle. Been there.
For years I've said that the Mac is a PC because it is.
After having some flamethrowers shot at me a little fact around the PCJr years that Apple clearly did not want the distinction that their computers were personal computer but extentions of something I can't remember.
So Apple has always maintained that their computers are NOT personal computers.
Just don't tell a Mac zealot that their PC's are PC's because they're not. They're Macs.
I just wonder what you call it when you take a Mac (Intel flavor) and slap Windows on it. Crap? Rotten Apple?
if you steal from one source, that is plagiarism, if you steal from many, well, that's just research.
Actually, it was Windows bigots that hijacked the word "PC" to mean "Windows System."
Until the early 90's, people called computers that ran MS-DOS and Windows "IMB Compatable" computers.
Microsoft hated that, because that made it sound like a Compaq running Windows was somehow inferior to an IBM running Windows. Also, since IBM was moving away from DOS at the time (in favor of OS/2), they were worried that the term (which was essential to them usurping IBM's monopoly) was no longer going to apply.
So they "encouraged" the industry press to use the term "PC" to apply to WinTel boxes, and thus a new usage was born.
"PC" used to stand for "Personal Computer." Now, it stands for "Piece of Crap."
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
If you require things like a Start menu, and can't learn to use a Command button instead of a Control button to perform the same shortcuts, then stick with a Windows box. Don't even get me started on your Windows-style uninstall functionality request. That's just asinine.
I know you're trolling, but just for the education of those who think you are insightful, please suggest a succinct name for "personal computers based on the general spec for Microsoft Windows, often including such technologies as PCI, ACPI, DDR SDRAM, Intel processors, etc, but with no specific differentiating factor, usually but not necessarily running a version of Microsoft Windows." Something that fits in nicely to "Mac vs. PC", yet conveys all the details of this subtle distinction. Once upon a time we called this "IBM-compatible", but that became absurd when IBM became a minor player in the market.
OK, the nice succinct name you're looking for is "Windows PC" - easy huh?
If its "usually but not necessarily running a version of Microsoft Windows," then the virus ad on the Mac website doesn't hold true (I mean the Mac guy gets less viruses then an openBSD guy?)
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
Snap!!
I wonder though. There are people here who weren't even born when the IBM PC came out. They might actually not be aware of the origins of the term.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
The wrongheadedness of that MS campaign is spectacular, isn't it? You can tell what they were thinking; basically the idea was to goad us into paying for upgrades to systems and app suites for which people aren't ponying up their upgrade fees. MS needs businesses, especially, to stay on that treadmill.
Talk about insulting their audience, though. That campaign is almost up there with the RIAA folks and their "our consumers are thieves" mindset. MS even does the RIAA one better -- because the point is that we're dinosaurs who are using Microsoft's old products. They trash us, and they trash their own software!
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
I think when the PC guy freezes, they shoul hit the Mac guy with a big spinning beachball!
Seriously, put a Mac and a, um, Dell in front of 1000 people and ask them to point to the PC. The only one who'd say, "Well, technically,..." is wearing a pocket protector, has a serious case of nasal drip, and has distinct opinions on whether Kirk or Picard is the better captain.
Geek speak != common speech. Get used to it.
Another one bites the dust
That's just Steve Jobs.
That's curious - a few years ago, I bet you would have said "PC" means "a machine running on the x86 architecture".
You're right - I bet he would've - and most Mac users still call linux users "PC users"
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
No, I wouldn't have. Get out a little and listen to how people talk: The man on the street sees a machine running Windows and he calls it a "PC". (There's no other common noun for "a machine running Windows".) Show him an x86 box running some OS he doesn't recognize, and he'll probably use the fully generic term "computer". In fact, I've even had people insist to me that my Linux-running Gateway Pentium-III box isn't a "PC".
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
Agreed! Carbon Copy Cloner is an excellent solution for ghosting, though I would argue that SuperDuper is even better (nicer interface, more features, faster to release versions compatible with latest OS versions, and very reliable).
I worked in a high school lab environment which consisted primarily of Macs. Every summer we would set up one machine exactly the way we wanted them all to be, then clone its hard drive to an external firewire drive, and use that external drive to ghost every other machine via SuperDuper or Carbon Copy Cloner.
This method has several advantages over traditional ghosting, in my opinion:
1) As the parent poster pointed out, the external drive is a fully bootable, which is great for doing recovery work.
2) You can clone from one Mac directly to another via firewire target disk mode (which enables one Mac to act as an external hard drive of another Mac) -- this means that you can clone a few machines and then they can clone their neighbors, which can clone their neighbors -- doing this in parallel meant that we could ghost all of the machines in the lab (40 or 50) in a day or two using a few firewire cables.
3) Cloning from an external firewire drive is much faster than using CDs, DVDs, or the network as traditional ghosting usually does.
4) If you want to update your ghost, just boot off of the external drive and reconfigure the system -- very easy and painless.
5) SuperDuper can take an existing machine and update it to exactly match the ghost image (deleting, adding, and replacing files as necessary), which can be faster than reformatting and cloning from scratch.
The same time the commercial came out, NBC stations around the country had stories about how macs have new security risks. The way the Denver news guy worded it was something like, "Macs are more dangerous than PCs."
Made me wonder how NBC stories are pushed to affiliates. Interesting timing on a story that's old news (mac security flaws).
Anyone out there work for an NBC affiliate? Do you see the parnership with Microsoft (or anyone else for that matter) swaying stories, or the choice therof??
There's some hatin' in the ads, but there's also some emphasis on the cool things a Mac can doiLife, mainly.
I agree with the poster, though, in that the negative parts made me cringe. Ugh. They were a little over-done. Especially the rebooting. (Just a sec, while I, umm, install some updates on this PC.)
I really do. I saw one of these commercials last night, with some comment about i.life and I thought to myself, you know, Apple is misleading folks again.
Heh. Good one! True too!
This sig kills fascists.
(i.e. those who have the mental horsepower to understand what "PC" actually MEANS in 2006)
As virtually everyone who replied in disagreement to my orginal post had a different definition of PC, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you that most people know what it means.
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
In recent versions of OS X, you can easily remap your modifier keys to interchange the behavior of command and control.
Go to System Preferences > Keyboard and Mouse > Modifier Keys to do so.
Perhaps Apple should include this option in the setup assistant that runs when you first start up the computer: "Would you like to use control instead of command for keyboard shortcuts?"
Just seems to be a challenge to the virus writers. I expect it won't be long now.
That's what people said about various things Apple and users did last year, and the year before that. Still waiting....
The thing is, virus writers are mostly not in it for the bravado now. It's a business, trying to scrape as many details or get as many zombie systems as possible. An Apple "gauntlet" means nothing.
The funny thing is, just like most software is on Windows because people are too set in thier ways to learn OS X programming, so to are virus writers pretty comfortable with what they can do on Windows and don't want to really do much extra work. So macs are proteced by an inertia that should keep them pretty safe long after some arbitrarily large threshold of marketshare is reached.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
As for spin, its more newscasters have no right reporting tech news (This INCLUDES the want to be tech guy most stations have on staff) The way they spin things they would make you believe that most windows viruses would eat your baby.
Reporters get off on creating a panic about something, 99% its unwarranted.
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
Apple removed the long-running g5 freezes thread from their support RT. It won't be long till I make my tinfoil hat I guess...
Seriously though, until a year later after I stripped out all of my aftermarket RAM (which worked fine in every other beast I have) did I notice that my first-gen g5 1.6 only likes Apple's insanely great-ly priced RAM - which means if I want to get it back up to where I had it - I'd need to spend 4 TIMES what I spent in the initial upgrade. At some dot-com event in SF, someone confirmed the RAM type that Apple used (Samsung? - something with an "s"), and of course it was the top-shelf stuff with some odd specs.
For the cost of the memory I can nearly get an intel mac-mini so I'm craigslisting the g5 with the caviat, that it's Ram tastes are expensive unless you can put up with freezes or don't use power-apps too much (friends never got it to freeze - but I could do it in less than an hour with photoshop, flash MX and final cut pro).
Perhaps someone with video skills can overdub the apple freeze spots with a g5-centric script.
Re: All the good games are for Windows
Given BSD-based OSX on new x86 architecture, oughn't developers be able to
port/write to/for both Linux & Mac together relatively easily? I mean, you're
probably not writing games in Cocoa...
Were that I say, pancakes?
"PC" means "a computer running Windows".
What do you call an intel Mac running windows?
(You see why Apple is dumb reinforcing this now?)
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
But you obviously *don't.*
This is Slashdot. Home of geeks who don't know Thing One about what most people (those with girlfriends, friends without computers in their living rooms, etc.) think or do. The fact that people here speak the same arcane distortion of English and understand what you mean doesn't prove that the rest of world talks the same way.
Free Clue: They don't.
If you don't believe me, act like a real scientist and do an experiment. Pick a few people at random (Hint: /. is not a representative sample population) and ask them. Or keep your head up your ass and believe what you wish while people laugh at your for being such a pathetic geek. Your choice.
So Apple has always maintained that their computers are NOT personal computers. Just don't tell a Mac zealot that their PC's are PC's because they're not. They're Macs.
Actually this nomenclature evolved from industry jargon. Macintosh personal computers were called "macs" to distinguished them from IBM-compatible personal computers, which came to be called just "PCs." Since macs weren't IBM compatible, they were considered a different grouping. This naming scheme persisted in the tech community even after Apple computers had IBM processors in them while "IBM compatible PCs" did not.
I just wonder what you call it when you take a Mac (Intel flavor) and slap Windows on it. Crap? Rotten Apple?
The name "rotten apple" was taken years ago by modders who put Intel and AMD motherboards and chips into salvaged Apple cases. It basically means an Apple that has been gutted and replaced with non-Apple hardware. It sort of applies, but not really.
Just thought I had to add this... The irony makes me chuckle. Not more than 5 minutes after a dual display hiccup (my 3 past Mac laptops have performed this flawlessly but this thing can't figure it out) which forced me to restart my work forced WinBlows laptop. So I restart, hit slashdot, and check out the link to Apple's new commercials - and what do ya know!? Internet Explorer encountered some problem after watching 3 or 4 of them and crashed the system. Gotta love those restart breaks! If I had a Mac at work I might have to sit at my desk and get some work done.
Well, that's totally revisionist history. There's been a "PC Magazine" since about 1982, and it's always focused on IBM-compatible machines (or "PC Clones").
People got away from the term "100% IBM-Compatible", because every machine met the standard so there was no point in advertising it, and after about 1990 IBM never did a single thing to advance the state of PC hardware.
Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
Yes, I do think that's in Apple's advantage. But they should say "windows" rather then "PC", so they don't look like retards.
Apple is marketing to the general public - the people who use "PC" to mean a "computer using Windows" and "Mac" to mean "a Macintosh" or "Apple computer."
They're using informal language because the people they're targeting know exactly what they mean when they say "PC" - their audience knows that the "Windows" is implied.
They don't look like retards - no more than someone who says "Kleenex" when they really just mean "tissue" or "Band-Aid" when they really just mean "a little sticky bandage." "PC" means "a computer using Windows" to the vast majority of the people who use that term. Get used to it.
Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
"Mac OS X was designed with security in mind. Windows just wasnt built to bear the onslaught of attacks it suffers every day. A Mac offers a built-in firewall, doesnt advertise its existence on the Net, and isnt compromised within an hour of being turned on. "
hahaha. now we know where those studies are put to use.
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
They joke about the current situation of the Windows PCs... But how long? Vista is peeping around the corner...
Yes, but Vista is not going out to consumers until at least early next year! How is a campaign now, almost a year from Vistas release, "outdated"? The current ad could run for six months and still be pulled long before Vista arrived.
As for virus writers, they'll stick with what they know for a long time even as the mac market share increases. Virus writing for the Mac is not automatically easier because it's on an Intel chip, the OS is very different and you have to unconver flaws in it.
Yes the Macs will probably get viruses. But I've been writing that same phrase for two years now and we still don't have any. If someone were to have bought a Mac two years ago on the premise it did not have virues they'd be pretty damn happy today, and if people buy a mac today they'll probably be a lot better off for years to come even after the first few clumsy attempts trickle in.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
What do you call an intel Mac running windows?
Unfortunate.
Theres really no debate here.
Correct - every point you made was wrong, and since you posted as AC we know you are not even smart enough to defend your claims.
Buy against the AC's advise, that's what my momma always said.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
A Mac is a personal computer, but it's not a PC, based on the typical usage of the term nowadays. It's shouting at the rain to claim otherwise.
Theres no techinical limitation, strictly speaking. It's just easier to write stuff for one platform, and if you're gonna do that, do it for the system people will buy it on. I was just spinning their marketting BS the other way (the correct way, that is)
hahahaha, indeed.
But is it an unfortunate Mac, or an unfortunate PC?
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
Given BSD-based OSX on new x86 architecture, oughn't developers be able to port/write to/for both Linux & Mac together relatively easily? I mean, you're probably not writing games in Cocoa...
Sadly, not really. Many game companies (most of the big ones) do co-development with the PC now. This will save them some minor work with processor optimizations. Most companies that don't have a mac port or have greatly delayed Mac ports use DirectX for development. DirectX is a MS proprietary technology.
The main advantage this will bring is if developers rely upon a re-implementation of the Windows APIs (including DirectX). WINE is one such re-implementation. Apple supposedly has another they have not released. This would allow Windows programs, including games to run at nearly full speed under OS X (maybe faster in some cases). Also, some game companies might build upon the WINE work to make "quick and dirty" ports of their games for the Mac.
I do foresee more games being ported because of this, but not as nicely or cleanly as a real port. A lot of this may depend upon the WINE developers and what Apple releases.
Granted, it might not be a good usage to encourage. I've never liked it, for the same pedantic reasons that you're asserting: it's technically imprecise. I call them "Windows computers" myself (which gets me a frustrating number of puzzled looks). But the term "PC" is already very well established among the general public for this meaning (Mac users and Windows users [who call themselves "PC users"] alike), and if you think that "technically imprecise" matters even one nano-bit in determining that, you have a rather uninformed view of how language works.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
No, you're writing games in DirectX, which, unless you're using somethng like Cedega, just doesn't work in anything but Windows.
no more than someone who says "Kleenex" when they really just mean "tissue" or "Band-Aid" when they really just mean "a little sticky bandage."
OK, so if Kleenex made a series of ads saying "Kleenex is superior to tissues" (rather then "Kleenix is superior to other tissues") that it wouldn't seem stupid?
I'd call Kleenex stupid if they did that too.
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
No... *you* might be writing games in DirectX, but DX is not synonymous with games.
One could write something to SDL for instance.
Were that I say, pancakes?
People, people!
To the ones complaining that "PC" is not "a machine running Windows", please note that no Linux (or *BSD, or Solaris x86 or, or...) using geek/nerd/unsanitary person is ever going to call a Intel-based computer running the said operating system a "PC". It's a "Linux box". The cooler ones use the plural "Boxen"
You know it's true, now focus on bashing either Apple or Microsoft, or maybe Dell or some big PC manufacturer, I don't know.
(It's [trying to be] funny, laugh)
The news came from associated press not from NBC/MSNBC or any of its afficilates.
;)
MSNBC/CNN/NYT pride themselves with reporting unbiased news regardless of their parent orgs.
Looks like you need go work a reporter for inq given your skills for coming up with conspiracy theories.
If their target audience firmly believed that Kleenex was not the same as tissue, then no - I wouldn't think it's stupid at all.
PC once stood for "personal computer" - and, I suppose, in a strictly literal sense it still does - but what it *actually* means and what people commonly use it for nowadays is "a computer running Windows." Usage determines meaning in this case.
I personally would find Apple using the term "Windows PC" to be klunky in those ads. "This is my friend, Windows PC" or "This is my friend, a computer running Windows" or "This is my friend, a Windows PC" just don't work for me - they don't have any flow. To the people Apple is marketing to, and especially given Apple's image, flow trumps precision in this case.
Your point may be "correct," but it isn't "right" if that makes any sense to you.
Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
What exactly made you call this a 'hate campaign'? That's a touch strong don't you think? Its a negative ad, at best. And last time I checked, those do indeed work quite well, at least in the political arena.
I wouldn't even call it a negative ad myself since it is not an attack (not the lack of OMINOUS MUSIC, its pretty playful) but rather a gentle ribbing. Unless you feel really insecure about owning a PC, that is.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
Quote from the "Macs Aren't Slow" page:
Plus, since Apple designs and tests the operating system and new hardware at the same time, the company can optimize software and hardware to work well together. That means on such well-designed hardware, that MacBook Pro runs even some Windows software faster than PCs themselves, according to third party results. (They're able to get these results with beta software from the next version of Mac OS X, Leopard. Apple Computer does not sell or support Microsoft Windows.)
Whaaaa???
Repetition does not transform a lie into the truth. - FDR
The original ads for the Apple II called it "the world's first personal computer," and most people described it in shorthand as a PC. Then IBM came out with its personal computer product, called "The IBM PC," and in effect hijacked the term. Thus "PC-compatible" came to mean "IBM PC compatible," and *PC Magazine* was started to talk about the IBM PC - the first clone came out in 1983.
Well, to be fair, the Mac is a PC.
Thus, it would be logical that all of the PC guy's behaviour in the ad applies to a Mac, too. This actually seems to be the case, though in less significant amounts than in a pure PC.
Need for an occasional reboot? Check.
Malware? Check (Well, attempts do count. And CNET articles.)
iTunes, clock, calculator? Yup.
Networking glitches? Sure.
Rave reviews? Hmm... I'm sure Vista will get some.
I'd say the Mac is a PC. Because he's younger and chooses to wear contact lenses, you can't tell, but in 15 years or so...
J
A mac. Macs are a brandname/trademark of Apple computers. If we are talking about an Apple branded machine, I would call it a mac whether it is running OS X, Linux or Windows.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
Logically, I'd also think that showing people how good your product is (rather than how bad the other product is) has a much more positive effect.
What if your strength is that you don't do something horrible? What if your strength is that you do something better than a competitor, and you'd like to show how much better you are? What if failures are rare for both products, but you want to show yourself as better? Isn't it fair in that case to contrast your success against your competitor's failure?
If you're selling fluorescent lights, and you want to contrast the short life and high power consumption of incandescent lighting against your product, is that bad?
If your cell phone service doesn't drop calls and lets you communicate clearly, isn't it better to show your competitors failing at this rather than trying to show an entire month of not failing?
If your product cleans stains effectively, isn't it fair to compare it against "the leading brand" to show how much better it is?
I see no difference between the above commercials and what Apple is doing. However, I think it's a little like calling the Titanic "Unsinkable" before its maiden voyage to brag about how virus-free Macs are. That kind of hubris is definitely going to bite Apple when the platform reaches that critical mass of interest + talent especially now that much more common x86 assembler experience can be leveraged by malware writers against the Mac now.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Apple says:
1) It just works.
That's nice, so does my WinXP box. It's poorly-written applications that crash 99% of the time, NOT the OS.
2) You can make amazing stuff.
You can do the same with a PC. The problem is that Microsoft can't bundle all that nifty stuff with their OS without getting sued, and OEMs aren't bundling it.
3) Design that turns heads.
The first iMac looked like crap. The desk lamp model wasn't much better. The current iMac *does* look better than a comparably-priced PC, but looks are low on my list of important factors.
4) 114,000 Viruses? Not on a Mac.
Nope. For some reason, the people who write viruses have chosen to write them for the 90+% of PCs on the internet that run some version of Windows. Go figure.
How many of those 114,000 have infected my PC? None.
5) Next Year's OS today.
Umm...this makes no sense. Wouldn't that make it this year's? Yay for marketing crap.
6) The latest Intel chips.
Oh well let me just put down my PC with the latest Intel chip and...oh, wait.
7,8, 9, 10, 11, 12)
Again, MS would probably get sued if they bundled such software.
13. No hunting for drivers.
PCs are capable of doing the exact same thing. Of course, there are more devices of a larger variety available for the PC, so drivers are a little harder to package.
14. Awesome out of the box.
The same could be said about any well-made PC.
120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.
XP is pretty stable these days - I've never seen a BSOD on my Thinkpad running XP. However, you do have to reboot XP:
* After every Windows Update
* After every driver install (and it seems every USB device has its own funny drivers)
* After most malware scans
* After most non-trivial software installs
And often more than once per event. All of the events above are much less frequent or non-existent with OS X. The recent 10.4.6 update was the first OS X update I recall that required more than one reboot to install, and I've been using it since 10.0.
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
So Apple has always maintained that their computers are NOT personal computers.
Oh really? At the bottom of every Apple press release is this little blurb:
Apple ignited the personal computer revolution in the 1970s with the Apple II and reinvented the personal computer in the 1980s with the Macintosh.
Not only does Apple claim their computers are "personal computers", they claim to have practically INVENTED the PC.
Every Mac user I know seems to have a constant high-pitched whine.
Wait, were we talking about hardware?
I also think that there is a serious naming problem for... for... for this thing that I don't know a name for. I guess "x86 compatibles?"
So, they were "IBM's." Then "IBM compatibles." But now that IBM isn't even in the business anymore, that term is dumb, not to mention dated. Then there was "Wintel," but there's AMD, and there was Cyrix there for a while, and there's Transmeta.
So then there's just "Windows Machines," but what if I am indeed trying to talk about the machine, and not the software? It makes no sense to talk about a "Windows Machine" that's only ever run Linux. So there's "PC," and as the parent points out, many people know what you're talking about, but I also think it's a pretty seriously imperfect and potentially confusing term. My last Mac had "Power PC" printed in large, friendly letters on the front. Surely, Macs are "Personal Computers," so even if we computer people know what we mean by "PC," I wish we had a better word, and one that won't confuse others. (Yes! It does confuse others! I've had the "Macs aren't PC's?" discussion with people before. My step-mother told tech support she was on a PC, because her Mac said "Power PC" on the front, and didn't say "Mac" anywhere.)
Does anyone have anything better than "x86 compatible?" After all, the new Macs are x86 compatible. Of course, the new Macs also run windows. The new Macs are Wintel machines!
"Mac Wintel" or "Non-Mac Wintel?"
"Mac" or "Non-Mac x86 compatible?"
"Mac PC" or "Non-Mac PC?"
I wish there was a good term for what we're calling "PC's." A word for "non-macintosh, x-86 compatible home-level desktop computers that could run Windows or Linux."
Can anyone tell me how to set my sig on Slashdot?
Apple ads have always had a sense of humor that's made them worth viewing again, but we're not supposed to take them too seriously. They're cheeky fun. Look at the little jabs Apple has made at IBM with "1984" and "Welcome IBM, Seriously", or Microsoft with "C:\NGRTLNS.W95".
:)
PC vendors went from being serious and boring to overexcited and a bit melodramatic. At least HP added some quirkiness to their commercials. Dell's "Dude, you're getting a Dell" ads were just annoying. My favorite PC ads however came from Gateway and Midwest Micro during the original Computer Shopper magazines days.
The only slightly off-putting Apple ads I have ever seen were the "Switch" ads that featured Jeff Goldblum. I am a fan, and I accept that he is personally capable of porting a virus over to an alien spacecraft from a Mac, but still.
Even the older Apple ][ ads were entertaining. PCs fans shouldn't get offended. Look at it this way, PC vendors get far more advertising in during a day of television with all those Best Buy, Circuit City, and CompUSA ads than does You have the Dell goth chick. We have Ellen Feiss.
Ellen Feiss commercial (warning, opens to Google's streaming video service)
A short history of Apple ads
...I'm really thinking about this one. I mean, the difference between a Dell laptop and an Apple laptop, vs. the difference between a Dell laptop and a Sony laptop?....
It runs a different OS? So... if I install Linux on my Dell, it's not a PC, but if I install Windows on my Mac, it is a PC?....
Anyway, America isn't a democracy, it is a constitutional representitive republic. It might not matter much in casual conversation when you aren't really talking about government/politics, but once you're talking about the setup of our government, it's a meaningful distinction.
You're not telling me anything I don't already know.
PC in the definitive term includes the Apple Macintosh.
Mac zealots including Apple computer including their marketing including their latest commercials state that Mac is not a PC.
You're not old enough to remember the abysmal IBM PCjr that really started the Mac vs. PC war and it's failure is what prompted the "Mac is not a PC" ideology because Apple didn't want the public to think that because the PC's suck and the keyboards didn't work that IBM PC and Apple PC are different entities when the PC was an emerging market. Hence the Apple fueled marketing that Mac's aren't PC's which even the oldest Mac zealot will still call PC's IBMs even though they're made and assembled from a plethora of different manufacturers.
if you steal from one source, that is plagiarism, if you steal from many, well, that's just research.
1) Start menu - Ha ha! Good one!
Do you Smug Mac Guys ever consider that it conceivably possible that Microsoft thought up something that simply works better than what Apple thought up? Rather than consider criticism it seems like most of you turn into flaming assholes and repel people away from your beloved computer.
Well here it is from a long time Mac user: Apple's program launching process is largely a relic of 400K Floppy Drives, and I'm not conviced it has scaled well to modern systems. They never really re-thought the process, it's just "the way it's always been done". The original Mac did have a "Start" function. You stuck a floppy into a drive and a window popped up with the program icons. When they switched to hard drives, that simplicity was lost.
Just on a superficial level, which looks easier:
[START] <== Click here stupid
versus
[======] Macintosh HD
Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
That's what they are doing in all of their campaigns. It can be a steam-roller smashing PC laptops, or jokes with snails comparing it to the speed of Intel's chips (in retrospect, that's ironic isn't it), or declaring iTunes the best Windows app in the world (i.e. the rest are apparently worse).
Isn't it odd, however, that for so many, many, MANY campaigns during the years, the people somehow don't get see the amazing features of Apple and keep using PC-s anyway.
I bet we're all just like those lemmings that jump off the cliff.
I think that commercial on the web site mis-represents PC's. Now we all know they're speaking about MS, but how many times, other than kernel upgrades does Linux reboot?
I guess they couldn't go right out and just destroy MS in the ad. And to a average home user, a PC is basically a MS machine. But still. It may even hurt teaching some naive person Linux because they could be "Well it runs on a PC and PC's reboot."
That which does not kill me only postpones the inevitable.
...pretty much only appealing to the Smug Mac User crowd.
Shouldn't that be Smug Mac User Group?
Talk about a long campaign!
Because you can - or because you should?
On the Apple web site, they say things like "Windows just wasn't built to bear the onslaught of attacks it suffers every day" and the "Word to the Wise" on the Boot Camp page: I think Apple's TV and print advertising, if it's going to attack Windows-related PC problems, ought to be just as explicit about the actual cause of those problems being Windows.
"It is nice to know that the computer understands the problem. But I would like to understand it too." --Eugene Wigner
Way to convince me, Apple
The other guy who replied to you is correct. "PC Magazine" pre-dated the IBM clones, so it was obviously *not* established to focus on clones.
There were several (probably paid) editorials in the late 80s and early 90s urging people to stop calling Compaqs and Olivettis and other DOS/Windows systems of the time "IBM Clones" and instead go with the blanket term "PC" to distinguish the (mostly) Intel-based computers (mostly) running Windows from the Commodore, Atari, and Apple systems of the time.
The term stuck, and now when you say "Macs and PCs", it makes sense to people. Trying to get non-geeks to call a Mac a PC is even more pointless than trying to stop geeks from using made-up plural forms like "boxen" and "virii." You can't do it, so don't bother trying.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Hmm...no viruses here on happy little win2k compy. Ever. No, not once. Reboots? Only when I want to. Boring stuff? Yeah, but it would be the same boring stuff if I were using a Mac to do it.
I think that Apple has generated enough revenue from the Ipods that they actually think they can take on Microsoft in their market.
I think Apple forgot who bailed them out last time by giving them 150 Million. And Microsoft allowing office X for the Macintosh. Microsoft allows Macintosh an existence in the computer world and not the other way around. The Geeky guy in the suit is the cool guys Daddy.
Right Junior.
And that's why you're an idiot.
You're not old enough to remember the abysmal IBM PCjr that really started the Mac vs. PC war
//c war (in which Commodore was victorious :), but I can't recall the "Peanut" ever being sold to the same market as Macs.
I'm old enough to remember the IBM PCjr vs Apple
Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
This capaign will damage Apple, because the reality is that Apple is the party with serious quality problems.
Too many recent Apple machines have been plagued by hardware problems, and the operating system is archaic, with a pretty GUI bolted on. MacOSX is full of bugs that are indicitive of a sloppy approach to software quality. Try playing with any apple file format. It takes only a hour or so to cause an apple program to crash with dodgy input data. From there it is not difficult to write an exploit.
Here I am, brain the size of a planet, and I get stuck doing all the boring jobs.
"22 astronauts were born in Ohio. What is it about your state that makes people want to flee the Earth?" Stephen Colbert
The fact that that was an AP story carried by CNN, FoxNews, and newspapaers as well wasn't enough to dissuade you from conspiracy theories? [face_rollseyes]
-- "I never gave these stories much credence." - HAL 9000
Also, "democracy" in modern language usually refers to representative forms of government even in most political discussions. Even the Athenian democracy consisted of rule by a minority of the people. Even so, representative democracies outnumber direct democracies vastly; in fact, it's a case of many against one, just like makers of IBM compatible personal computers outnumber makers of Macintosh personal computers many against one.
English is easier said than done.
Openly promoting the "Windows gets virii, Macs don't" will probably cause a huge intrest in virus makers who aren't totally obsessed with Macs to prove them wrong. Way to go. Would have been smart to invest in anti-virus software on the system level before you did this Apple.
In undeveloped countries, the consumer controls the market. In capitalist America, the market controls you.
Apple is crapping on the 40's white color workers, but it's the 40sh white color workers that make all corporate purchasing decisions today... This kind of stupidity is a major reason that Apple has such a small market share. Go Apple ;)
Just to play devils advocate here, reviews have been coming around showing as much as a 30% speed increase for common tasks if you install Windows on your Intel mac.
With a 30% speed increase during my normal daily use, I could probably afford a little downtime for spyware or viruses now and then.
I'm pretty baffled as to what Apple is doing, it seems like their marketing people and business strategy are not inline. Everything their doing points to lowering dependence on MacOSX, yet they continue to throw out marketing slogans saying PC's and windows suck.
I hate to tell you this Apple, but the accepted definition of a PC nowadays is a machine that is IBM PC Compatible, which of course your x86 intel macs are. Your marketing spin is starting to get old... First you told us PowerPC was the only way, and x86 was crap, then you decided to use x86 becuase it was cheaper/cooler/faster. Next you told us MacOS was the only way to make the x86 Intel CPU's work well, then you released a tool so we could all install windows and see it run much faster than MacOS. What's next?
Big ones, small ones, some as big as yer 'ead!
Give 'em a twist, a flick o' the wrist...
...making fun of stuff that was a problem, what? Maybe two-three versions ago? The Mac I had sucked balls compared to any Windows box I ever touched..
Which is more painful? Going to work or gouging your eye out with a spoon? Find out!
http://www.workorspoon.com
So is Apple the shit sandwich or the giant douche?? Can somebody help me on this one??
"But this one goes to 11!"
Actually I think the FedEx/USPS commercials are a good parallel to Apple/"PC" ones.
The USPS is something people are (well, were; I think a lot of younger people are less so) very familiar with, and use often. As such, its flaws get a lot of exposure. Anything that's used by that many people, unless it's absolutely perfect, is going to be reviled. Everybody who's used the mail for long enough has an experience with a lost letter, mangled package, delayed delivery, or rude postal clerk.
PCs are in a similar position. They're the de facto standard, pretty much everyone has one on their desk and has experienced a BSOD, virus, trojan, malware, or general bizarre behavior. So they're easy to hate: you can get in front of any group of 10 people in this country, pretty much, and say "How many people have had their Windows PC crash?" and get a bunch of hands up. Likewise, if you asked "How many people have had their Mac crash?" and you'll be lucky to get one hand. There may only be one Mac user in the crowd, but it will look like they're superior regardless.
Similarly, if you asked a group of people "How many people have had a bad experience with the USPS?" you'll get a lot of hands, versus "How many of you have had a bad experience with FedEx?" and you'll only get a few.
Now, I don't want to take this comparison too far; I really do think that in terms of operating systems, Apple delivers a thouroughly superior product, and Windows sucks the big one. Personal experience of using both has led me to that conclusion, but it's not personal experience that is driving most people's perception of Macs and Windows PCs.
The result is that it's a lot easier for Apple to launch a successful hate campaign about "PCs" generally than it would be for Microsoft to do the reverse, because pretty much everyone has had some bad experience with a PC. It's easy common ground to find. Apples, to a lot of people, are a bit of an unknown quantity. They know they exist, but not a whole lot more about them; so if you just create a vague positive image, you can then compare it to the concrete bad image they have of PCs, and there's your commercial. Basically, it's Apple: 0, PCs: -1.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
That should be "right-click and wait a few seconds". And yes, I have a Mac. And not a slow one: 1.4GHz powerbook with 1.25GB of RAM. I still have to wait several seconds for that menu to show up.
I just bought a new Intel Imac, loaded it with 2 gigs of RAM. This is the 2 gigahertz version. Here are some of the things that I noticed: 1. When browsing my MP3 collection on my buffalo 1 terrabyte NAS (using SMB I guess), it would take 20 seconds for the window to show all the file names. This takes about 3 seconds on my 2.8 Gigahertz Intel HP Computer running Windows XP. Both computers were wired to a 1 gig netgear switch. 2. When opening firefox for the first time, it takes the mac 8 seconds to load. The PC loads it in 3 seconds. Not from cache, this is first load. 3. Trying to view CNN.com videos still doesnt work, no matter which browser I use. I have the correct plug-ins. It just says connecting (this is on the same LAN where my Windows XP machine loads the videos without any problems). 4. Spooling to my printer takes twice as long for the same PDF on the Mac as compared to my PC. 5. When I bought Microsoft Office for Mac, it came with Virtual PC. I was excited that I could get a VM session of windows in my mac, however I was quickly disapointed when I read it would not work on an Intel Mac. Money down the drain since MS doesnt have a roadmap on releasing this software, and once opened it was not returnable. 6. The system kept losing its blue tooth mouse. I eventually replaced it with a wired mouse since I like the scroll thingy better. 7. The Mac went to sleep many times, and would not wake up when I pressed the keyboard or moved the mouse. When I changed the mouse to a wired one, I could then wake the system up. 8. There is a new security update at least once every 2-3 days. Each update requires a reboot. Each major software install requires a reboot as well. I thought we were moving away from this? 9. Entourage email client would crash the mac all the time. I blame that on Microsoft, however, I am not impressed how one app can cause the entire system to freeze. When I called Apple, they said it was a connectivity issue. 10. When you insert a DVD into the MAC it takes 21 seconds for anything to happen (system to recognize there is something in the DVD drive). It takes 9 seconds using my Windows XP and Pioneer DVD recorder (this recorder is maybe 1 year old) Overall I find myself doing more on my Windows XP machine. I go to the Mac to manage my pictures and music on Itunes, however, daily operations, like newsgroups reading, writing up papers, browsing, I go back to the PC.
Intelligent Design
Yeah, saying 'Windows is shit' while at they same proudly announcing 'Hey, you can run Windows now too!' would soung a little weird, wouldn't it?
The Mac guy would start acting like the PC guy if he swapped tshirt for bad jacket + slacks, glasses, and gained 20 pounds. In other words, if he was running Windows.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
Okay, then: how much do you want for it?
"It's time to take life by the cans." ~ Bender ("Bendin' in the Wind", ep. 3-13)
I've used Carbon Copy Cloner for my last two machines to move my data over from my old machine to the new (in Target Disk Mode). Works like a charm.
I've found it's way too obnoxious to recreate my whole system on a new machine, with the amount of stuff I have that the Apple utilities probably won't copy over (postfix configs, etc.) but I didn't want to just pull the drive from the old one and put it into the new machine (wanted to upgrade hard drives or whatever), so I've just cloned the drive onto the new machine and rebooted. Done this a few times.
I guess when I finally get an Intel Mac I won't be able to do it anymore, but I've really thought it's great -- all of the benefits of upgrading (better hardware) but without the few weeks of tweaking and resetting everything that I was used to doing after an upgrade. Basically it's like having the same "system" on the software side, but I've been able to take it through three complete iterations of hardware.
On the downside, you develop a lot of cruft this way, but I'm less concerned with that than I am with losing data or having to reconfigure something that I set up years ago and don't remember how to get working exactly the same way again.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
[takes place after the PC guy "crashes" from the virus]
Mac: Who are you? [turns to his left]
Tux: I'm Tux, the Linux penguin!!!
Mac: Oh crap, PC just gave me a virus....ahhhh!!!!! [falls over]
[pause]
Tux: Uh oh...I'm feeling kinda woozy, too. I think I may have a virus...oh wait. It's just normal code execution. *farts* Aww...much better. Sorry - false alarm.
The main adavantage that macs have over most pcs is that they don't have windows installed. :)
It's not -1 Flamebait! It's +5 Funny. You just didn't get the joke...
He is correct, but you are still wrong.
PC (as in "Macs versus PCs") was in common use in the 1980s and was not some 1990s Microsoft conspiracy. The point about PC Magazine was just that they used the term "PC" as a generic throughout the 80s.
I will agree that there was a concerted effort to stamp out the word "Clone", for obvious reasons. Which is too bad because I still sometimes say "clone" to refer to a "whitebox" and people tend look at me funny.
Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
The other side of the story, a cool video I downloaded a few months ago, I don't remember where...
;)
http://stuff.freylia.net/junk/dontbuymac.wmv (WMV, 5.5Mb)
"Mac killed my inner child"
Cheers!
I used to use Carbon Copy Cloner, but then I was lazy about backing up for a while. When I went back to it, it had fallen behind in features to Sup erDuper</a>, and that's what I use now.
Obviously late to this argument, but I found it ironic that Apple was trying to differentiate itself from PCs in these commercials using one white guy vs another. It's still just two white guys, pretty typical for the whole tech industry. I think Apple would have had a much better argument for their "different look and perspective" if they had used an intelligent, young, hip WOMAN for their computer insted of the grungy guy.
And let's not forget the history: It was Apple who came up with Cmd-z, x, c, v. Windows started out with that Shift-Ins, Shift-Del stuff. It's Windows that was trying to be more like the Mac in the first place when they finally changed their shortcuts.
Also, Cmd has been the traditional shortcut key on Macs for a long time, since the days of Apple II, when it was the Apple key, so there's a long history there. In fact, the Control key didn't even exist on Apple keyboards until years later.
Would a room full of rackmounts running windows count as a PC in your world?
That was classic intercourse!
This Year is the year for:
- Linux on the desktop
- open-source Java
- Mac viruses
- Windows Vista
- Duke Nukem Forever
(And it's been This Year for 5 years now.)
It's Apple's site, Apple's commercial and it requires QuickTime. I'll have to pass.
PC (as in "Macs versus PCs") was in common use in the 1980s
Not in my part of the country. We all called them either "IBM compatibles" or "clones."
Not in any of the general press of the time, either.
The effort to wrest any association with IBM from the identity of Windows systems didn't come along until the late 80s, and didn't really gain much traction until around the turn of the decade, when Windows PC's began to replace a lot of the Unix terminals in big offices, such as Piper Jaffray, a brokerage firm which hired me around 1992 to help support the new-fangled "Windows PCs" which they had just installed.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Just use RAM that has exactly the specs stated by Apple. There is absolutely no reason to buy RAM from Apple, apart from convinience when ordering.
Check the specs Apple put in the documentation that came with your G5 and show them to the dealer. Of course this is the reason why Apple dealers usually sell RAM that exactly meets those specs. And, yes it's a good idea to buy from a well known brand. I bet that at least 50% of Windows-PC crashs could be avoided if people wouldn't buy the cheapest memory they can find.
This is anecdotal, but this "XP is stable now" is something I'm not buying. Here goes:
I have four boxes here in my office, a six-month-old, high-end Dell Windows box, my Powerbook, a Dell 2800 running VMware ESX Server, and a Dell 2800 running Ubuntu (crazy, I know, but the 2800 was what was available).
Windows XP may have eliminated the BSOD that we all love to mock, but "stable" it isn't, IME.
Interested in a Flash-based MAME front end? Visit mame.danzbb.com
I don't get where the impression that macs are rock stable even comes from. I'll admit the last time I owned a mac was OS8/9 and back then, crashes/sad macs weren't so unusual and every week or so you had to rebuild the desktop to fix strange behavior.
www.wildpad.com
the more they stay the same. When I was a kid a "PC" was a TRS-80, or a Commodore 64, or even "ColecoVision". The wild west days of computers! There were Apple's too (before we chose the macintosh variety) and then IBM stomped down its thunderous foot and declared, "THIS IS THE IBM PC" and the "PC Compatible" was born. So ended the wild west... In 1984 it was IBM vs. Apple, and now it is MS vs. Apple, and IBM doesn't even make PC's anymore... Apple vs. the "PC" for lack of a better name. We've even standardized on Intel now, but it is STILL Apple vs. the PC... that ying and yang, the David vs. the Goliath, the UNDERDOG fights the good fight... what a bunch of CRAP.
Apple exists and will continue to exist because, thank God, some people don't want to conform. They don't want to comply. Resistance is not futile! And the rest of us that do conform, get the benefits of that conformity and the costs. And those that do not conform get the benefits of that non-conformity and the costs. Without Apple, MS would suck us all dry. They would slow their innovation. Why did we have to wait for a tabbed browser? Because Firefox had not yet been invented. So those of us who choose to conform should thank those that don't for keeping the giants honest.
And for those that choose not to conform, you should thank God that there are the majority of us who do! Without us you could not look cool and hip and trendy. Volkswagens would just be crappy little German cars without GM to make it look good.
If you don't believe this, just think of what would happen if Apple really DID take over 90% of the market... You would be the conformists! PC'ers would be the rebels, the cool ones, the ones fighting the good fight.
If everyone just kept their perspective, these flame wars would end. But then, without them, we'd all be conformists... [trailing off]
I'm not sure why that's meaningful. They have BIOS emulation now. It's doubtful that other vendors will stick with BIOS long-term. If Dell switches to EFI, will they cease to be a "PC vendor"?
Also, "democracy" in modern language usually refers to representative forms of government even in most political discussions.
Actually, in common usage in political discussions, "democracy" is usually used to indicate "any government which we don't consider evil". It's become a catch-phrase, meaningless except that people like it as a word. When you say a government is a "democracy", people think, "Oh, then it's fine." They don't inquire further as to whether the people are actually a force in the government. It could be a monarchy, and if it's a good government, people will say "it has democratic ideals!" On the other hand, you can have a country that has elections, and people still won't call it a "democracy" if it's a sufficiently corrupt/evil government/country.
But that's all WAY off topic.
And its commercials like this, and even more, the whole mental attitude that lies behind them, that have totally turned me off Apple and Macs. I wonder if this is the idea? Like some kinds of extreme minority religious cults, what they really want to do is provoke the rest of the world to insult them, thereby in a weird sort of way, confirming their minority status?
Well, who knows, who cares, but its a total turn off.
How long before improved compatibility with more mainstream x86 platform makes apple more of a target for viruses?
The x86 assembler could be used on both windows & mac plaforms so there can be more codereuse. The Windows vs OSX border still works against more viruses for mac but still more you share between two plaforms and closer they become with each other lower the barrier of creating software for both instead of just one platform. And by software I mean all softare both malware and applications.
Emacs is good operating system, but it has one flaw: Its text editor could be better.
Anyone out there work for an NBC affiliate?
Well, this guy, this guy, and this guy probably work for MS, NBC, or an NBC affiliate, but they're not going to let you know.
Microsoft, NBC, and NBC affiliate guys (as well as folks from a lot of other companies; symantic, Cisco, Sun...) send their shills here to astroturf, but they're not going to let you know it.
Since the three linked fellows basically flamed you and ridiculed you for your question, a question that begs to be asked, I'd put money on the fact that at least one of them work for MS, NBC, or an NBC affiliate. Wouldn't be surprised if all three did. The tome of their comments is the biggest indicator that they're paid shills.
-Scott McNealy (NOT! MRC="jerked";)
> The ads represent a young cool looking man (Mac) and a white collar in
> his 40's (not cool, PC).
White collar - Check.
in his 40's - Check (for at least another 5 months).
Using a PC - Check (AMD powered, of course).
Running Debian GNU/Linux AMD64 - Priceless (oops, wrong commercial).
Congratulations, you just found out that Macs are not, in fact, perfect. Welcome to reality.
The ads are fantastically funny, and mostly true from my perspective. I run Linux, BeOS, OSX and Windblows, for various reasons and for entertainment value. The truth in the ads, that being easily connectable, easily configured and super easy to use, as well as stable hits home. For me it hits home, and I'll buy another Mac when the prices are right and refurbed units are cheap online and there is a model I want. Right now, it does NOT excite me to the point of parting with a 100%-200% premium over cheap PC hardware, especially since I ran NeXTStep and OpenStep on Intel hardware back in the day. I still have OS 4.2 around for HPPA, Sparc, Intel and NeXT hardware, maybe I should relapse and write code for that platform in protest of the premium Apple x86 hardware available today at astronimcal prices. Steve, if you're listening, charge PC prices for the Apple PC hardware. Its a long time coming, can you compete with Dell?
I think Apple's last advertisment where they talk about "dull little PCs performing dull little tasks" (by dull little people?) was a lot worse, pretty much only appealing to the Smug Mac User crowd.
Eh? Smug!?! Half the Mac users I know are 30 and 40 something whitcollars doing dull little tasks on their macs. These ads are meant to appeal to the iPod addicted teens and 20 something's that are either just about to crawl into, or are just about to be released from, University.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
Awwww, come on... I'm not insane here. I'm just curious about how stories are selected by some (read: lazy) news programs. Fox news @ 9 in Denver has pre-recorded news segments that play and their correspondents comment over (the same segments that Miami's Fox station plays), sent out from corporate. Just curious about it. How do they send them? How does each station select them? Certainly there were more important stories that could have been selected as a headline story, especially at a time when these commercials are released. Not TOO black-helicopterish I don't think... [Hey, At least I'm not saying that a few very rich individuals were behind 9/11: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-826005992 3762628848
It's sort of similar to the way certain companies send jingles out to their subsidiaries. (Anyone ever hear the ghost buster's theme to a car dealership?? out here it's duh duh duh duh duh duh duh JOHN ELWAY! In Miami it is a different name...)
Nobody knows anyone who works for a news station who selects stories? I find the inner workings of news organizations to be pretty interesting; I'm a dork!
...if I hadn't used a version of the Mac OS that's newer than 5-6 years old, I would realize that I wasn't in a position to question or comment on the stability of the platform today, and just keep my mouth shut.
But that's just me.
The virus one does worry me a bit, because as someone else says lower in the comments it sounds a bit like a challenge to virus-writers. But, of course, until Macs get up into the 20% or so market share range (which isn't happening soon), it would be hard for a virus to spread even if it was out in the wild. So that probably won't backfire too badly for at least a couple more years.
Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
must have PMS
See, this is the thing. To a lot of us they are not funny at all. They are just a bunch of smug fanatical people telling us how much better they are than us. Now, what the hell do they expect us to do with that? They don't care. They are actually talking to each other, but for some crazed reason its important to them to do it in front of the rest of us.
It is weird. And what it makes me feel is a rising distate and dislike for them. It doesn't make me think they're 'cool', whatever that is. It makes me want to have nothing more whatever to do with them ever.
And this is a former mac user and advocate speaking. What effect do you think it has on the outside world?
This is just the stupidest and most internally focussed sort of stuff you can imagine. It shows as clearly as you would ever want the collusion between Cupertino and the Maczealots who turn so many people off Apple. You're a corporate IT guy watching this stuff, you think: keep those guys out of here.
I don't get it at all. Perfectly reasonable computers. Why make a career out of turning people off buying them?
About twice as much as a similarly configured PC....
"But this one goes to 11!"
The reason no one steals my Yugo (despite the unlocked doors, and key in the ignition), is the inherent anti-theft design of the Yugo!
Overpriced pieces of junk! Could build two sweet systems w/ the price of one decent MAC. Go ahead.. keep throwing your money away! Lol!
Yet another set of crappy ads. Honestly all Apple sells now is "cool", that's it. I'd say 90% of the Apple users I know also own a VW (or a mini), an iPod and a Razor phone. You apple fanboys are little clones of each other. Seeing you all prance around and is as revolting as watching a pack of frat boys. You all think you are soo superior because of the stupid crap that some marketer tricked you into buying. Shit at least the frat boys know they aren't unique. Mac-heads all think that buying an Apple product makes them a special little snowflake.
iJam (It's Just A Machine)
Could chocolate be quiet and let me finish?
And let's not forget the Windows XP print ads that show a BSOD with the tag line "never see this again". But I guess it's a problem for advertisers when your only real competition is your own former products.
Support Right To Repair Legislation.
The Hipness Threshold
This page has some 1980s ads from Compaq where they call their machine a "PC". (see the 386/33 ones)
a ds/international/compaq
http://www.aresluna.org/attached/computerhistory/
Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
I've been waiting for this link to appear in a post =)
Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
What a joke - so many people arguing the relative benefits of Mac vs PC without most of them even having used both. And by used I don't mean tried it in the local Best Buy.
Fact of the matter is that both have benefits - the ads are not that far off. Windows XP can work great in some situations, but for the average user I'd say they encounter more crap than is really necessary for a modern OS. Vista is not going to solve that - it's just millions more lines of code trying to hold everything together.
I much prefer Macs now, having used PC's since the 8086. My job is working with PC's - I don't use them at home. Macs are just less hassle. Plain and simple. Not perfect, not wonderful... but simply GOOD. Yes some people may encounter problems, but that's unavoidable. Generally speaking there is less BS to deal with on the Mac. Plus the built in iLife apps are really good. The average user on a PC doesn't have software even close to that powerful and simple.
I don't want to spend my time at home troubleshooting why the latest plugin doesn't work or updating antivirus definitions. Honestly ask yourself the last time your PC did something unexpected that you spent at least a half hour troubleshooting. If you're using it much, I bet you won't have to think very hard. The same is simply not true of the Mac. My current machine has NEVER locked up beyond the current application, and it's loaded with a lot of apps. It's been a smooth ride the whole way. I have never had that experience on PC, and I've owned and worked with a lot of PC's.
Anyway, enough said - to summarize, neither is perfect but the Mac makes more sense for the average user. It generally does what you ask, and does it well.
If I were a business, and two prospectice employees were presented to me and I had to make a choice between A) an experienced, older person who knows how to use the common tools in the busess, and B) A young upstart who can do a few things really good, but intergrate well with the rest of the office . . .
After learning that the older guy requiress less money then the young upstart, I'd have to go ahead and go with the older guy.
The Internet is generally stupid
America isn't a democracy: it's a continent!
...by not mentioning competitors products directly (MS Windows), this will allow Apple to air these adverts on British TV. When the original iMacs came out they couldn't air them in the UK, so we got the Apple Genius advert, which didn't "sell" anything. So most of the computer-phobes i knew thought the iMac was a TV - the billboards just had an iMac with the word "iMac" next to it.
I'm over 40 so obviously I'm not cool, hip, or fly enough to use a Mac. Actually, Linux is probably an appropriate choice, as it's a reimplementation of an operating system developed when I was a kid.
Or do both the guys seem like douches?
The PC is a cold, humorless middle aged guy and the Mac is the frat-boy son of said man, living off his trust fund.
Mac could've personified themselves much hipper.
How many times I have to tell you, there is NO Apple Macintosh any more! It is just another IBM PC compatible x86 system. You can choose plain beige box look from the corner PC shop very cheap or a black Dell for fair price or a damn expensive fancy neon-fruit plastic apple design: but the interior is all the same!
Any x86 PC can run Windows, Linux or MacOSX as you wish (MacOSX courtesy of Maxxus the russian drm busting hacker-titan).
Do not fall for stupid ads, your computer is not safer just because it costs 2x more and has fruit coloured plastic cladded case. You also need not necessarily pay extra through the nose for fancy hardware just to run the single-button-mouse OS. Any beige box PC will do for MacOSX.
I guess MacOSX will disappear in few years as Apple becomes multimedia vendor and then it will be Linux vs Windows only. But even if MacOSX sticks VXers already know every register of the x86 by heart so much they put J.S. Bach to shame. Sure there will be a lot of MacOSX (or Win-Mac cross-platform) malware as soon as the MacOSX market share justifies the little extra effort. Apple Corp. lost the splendid isolation when dropped the PowerPC. The price, they still need to pay that.
(see the 386/33 ones)
The ones from 1989?
Thanks for proving my point.
The very first time I ever heard anybody seriously insist on the use of the word "PC" to refer specifically to a DOS box was in late 1988. Before that, most people were still calling them IBMs, IBM clones, IBM compatibles, or, in rare cases, MS-DOS PCs.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Hmmm... looks like the Mac guy is Justin Long (I remember he was in Galaxy Quest?)
and PC guy is John Hodgman (expert on everything for The Daily Show)
...to think that the PC guy looks exactly like a slightly plump Bill Gates, while the Mac guy bears more than a passing resemblence to a younger version of Steve Jobs?
http://takaakikato.jp/2006/05/he-looks-like-otaku- doesnt-he.html
Apple is interested in the content creation and home/home entertainment markets as those markets tend to be more lucrative for Apple than corporate clients.
Think about the corporate market for a moment. What do they use most of the time in terms of software? MSFT Office. You can get that software on the mac too but MSFT is the company that makes it while Apple does not seem interested in creating a competitor for Office. Once you setup a corporate machine, the company selling the system will see nothing until the next hardware upgrade cycle comes along.
Look at Apple's situation, they sell not only hardware and OS upgrades to their customers but also consumer and professional content creation software. These extras and upgrades tends to provide a constant stream of additional revenue which you would not see much of with the corporate customer.
Given these facts, do you see why Apple sees their target markets as home users and creative professionals.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
Apple's latest marketing campaign which highlights the advantages of Macs over vanilla PCs isn't targetted at techy-savvy geeks like the ones who read slashdot...so this campaign is pretty appropriate for if you consider who Apple's target audience is. I don't think the campaign "hates" on Microsoft of anything like that, it just plays on most people's notions of Windows' flaws...
Don't they have to reboot Bush every once in a while?
Caveat - I homebuild PCs, and I've also had Macs since 1984.
That said, I used to say the same thing - Windows for office apps, Macs for audio/video/graphics... and my current experience with ProTools on both Mac and Windows supports the latter, but what supports the former assertion? Office works better on a Mac than it does on Windows, not to mention iWork. Keynote seriously kicks Powerpoint's butt, Pages is much easier for layout than Word, and Mac Excel is symmetrical with Windows Excel. Filemaker is both easier and more powerful than Access, and while AutoCAD is Windows only, I've heard of (but haven't used yet) several Mac alternatives. AutoCAD is kinda kludgy anyway, acting like a command-line program with a GUI glued on.
In what way does Windows clearly surpass Macs (in the same way that audio/video editing on the Mac clearly surpasses Windows)? Note: availability of games isn't the same thing as capability of games... BF1942 and WoW run just as well on my Mac as they do on my PC (better, but my Mac is two years newer). Honestly, in what area does the OS architecture make Windows a better choice?
What the picture does scream is hardworking father and lazy son who still lives with his parent unemployed and useless.
If this is the image Apple wants then good luck.
Further into the site you get asked the question "Wich mac are you". Hmmm. Well lets expand, wich computer am I? A dell (cheap crap), a powerbook (expensive, tastefull, useless), a mac mini (expensive, underspecced).
None of the above. Me, I am a gray. HAL ain't got nothing on me baby.
Just sell a good product. Don't try to sell me a fucking lifestyle. I swear everytime I am just about to buy a hip product I see that ad and realise that if I am seen with it people think I want to have the image portrayed in the ad. Ewh.
Can't I own a mini mac because it is small, silent and nice without being an useless artsy guy sponging of his dad?
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
That mac is repeating the mistake of false advertisement once again. Hope a new vulnerability on mac is found right now to shut them up
Copyright infringement is "piracy" in the same way DRM is "consumer rape"
All it seemed to be was Mac OSX vs Microsoft Windows.
The Mac is the emo kid with a stupid haircut wearing Hot Topic who calls mall security guards "fascists" and constantly bitches about the Bush administration and yakking with his online buddies on the indymedia.org forums about conspiracy theories, while the PC is the older, wiser, and mature gentleman with years of real-world experience under his belt.
I don't see what's so inaccurate about this ad.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2285904448 784173497&q=macs+suck&pl=true
Could chocolate be quiet and let me finish?
> MSNBC/CNN/NYT pride themselves with reporting unbiased news regardless of
;-)
.)
> their parent orgs.
I hope you aren't serious about this.
I hope we can all agree that these "news organizations" have a HUUUUUUGE bias. I would say the same thing about Fox News. Everybody has a bias of some kind. The key is to understand what the bias is while you're reading, and read more than one source (one from the left, one from the right, you get the picture . .
We need to remember that there is another audience that this campaing is trying to reach: Apple users. Sure, you don't get a lot of new customers by insulting their choice of a competing product, but you gain a lot of loyalty from your current customers.
It is a fact that a lot of ads are targeted to current users of the products to estabish and reinforce brand loyalty. In this case you don't have to limit yourself just to mac users, after all there are a lot more ipod users out there that I am sure Apple would like to convince to buy a mac. After all, aren't you already hip and cool with your ipod? Wouldn't you like to dump that working-stiff-white-collar-forties-guy of a PC and get you a mac to go with your ipod?
A person who thinks that they are a Mac user but are really just trying to be. The mistake they make is to try to become a Mac user, when real Mac users are all about not trying to be anything and following your own rules. There is no fashion code to being a Mac user. There are no rules as to what applications you have to run.
Recent converts like you are ruining the old school Mac community because you are posers. Apple releases one OS that popularizes Fitts' law and the Genie effect, and suddenly people assume being a Mac user is all about owning a Mac. But a real Mac user is born, not made. You "switchers" are misrepresenting yourselves and the Mac platform. You're giving people the wrong idea of what Macintosh is.
switcher: shops at hot topic, thinks Firefox is a good Mac app, waiting for OS X port of PayrollPro 2000, follows any hint of a fashion trend (instead of setting them!), wouldn't know Clarus from Carl Sagan.
real Mac user: someone true to who they are, the misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers, the round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. They're not fond of rules and they have no respect for the status quo. The ones who are crazy enough to think that they can change the world.
"Would have been smart to invest in anti-virus software on the system level before you did this Apple."
They did - it's called UNIX.
Outdated because everybody already knows every windows joke exept mac users.
The ads are funny exactly because everyone (including Mac users) know the stereotypes. And those stereoypes are based on real behaviours people encounter from PC's.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
So Macs are for kids who want cool toys and who want to play around. PCs are for people who have to work and get things done. Work isn't fun... work is lame. (Duh)
Or Macs are for people who want to do things better, because the PC way isn't good enough.
If you really feel this way, why not go after the term "computer?" Computers haven't been used primarily to compute numeric calculations for decades. They're now generic information processing devices -- and yet the name remains. Real world language is live, fluid, and imprecise. Get used to it. Or swich to a dead/fake language like esperanto. And good luck trying to woo a girl with poetry written java (as well formed as it might be).
oh yeah, virus writers? i'll volunteer, come and get me, if you dare!
we've got whole buildings full of macs networked --
the IP address is 127.0.0.1. firewall gateway password is 'rubberbuscuit'
and all the machines use superuser passwd 'gingerbreadman'.
No, he's just autistic.
After all, I am strangely colored.
But these "Windows computers" don't actually compute windows, do they? They compute computations.
If you really want technical precision, you should call them x86 based personal computers running Microsoft Windows. That's a bit of a mouthful.
After all, I am strangely colored.
They had to cut the part where Wintel is bent over coughing from his virus and Mac tries to have gaysex with him.
Sometimes at night I imagine the darkness is filled with horrible things with too many teeth, like Julia Roberts.
If the vast majority of people who referred to it called it "a PC" then yes.
Language is one of those things where, even if they're wrong, the majority is right.
Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
I just spent the day with a Dell Dimension 5100 series. It was a cheap computer but I wasn't say it was inexpensive. I was helping my boss's friend (other story) and it really made me glad I own a Mac at home.
To start with, this brand new computer kept doing crazy sh*t like tell him he needed to register his trial version of Corel Image Somthing before his 27 days were up - this was when he was reading an email with an image attachment and wanted to view it. Second, even though he installed iTunes and setup his iPod, MusicMatch kept prompting him to create an account every time he inserted a CD to rip.
How aweful to buy a computer from teh #1 vendor with teh #1 OS and have tons of ads and sh*t crammed down your throat!
Thank God for OS X
I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
There's not much you can do. Perhaps say "Mac sucks" and hope they go the other way?
If you get hung up on what other people think, and that keeps you from buying a Mac, then it's your problem and I don't think any advertisement can really do much about it.
Me, I use Macs because they work better for some things. I am posting this on a Mac while I launch Oblivion on the PC next to it.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
http://www.apple.com/getamac/peripherals.html
"Many people are delightfully surprised to find that supposedly Windows-only peripherals work just fine with their new Mac. That's because the Mac ships with drivers for most everything you're probably already using. (Oh, and Mac OS X doesn't scream "hardware detected" every time you plug in something as basic as a keyboard.)"
Yee-ouch! Take that, Gates! --S.Jobs
It should still be under warranty. You should see if they will fix that "return" key for you.
PC? Mac? What are you talking about?
You must be one of those hackers I heard about on the news.
Good gracious, please don't judge a PC by such horrible software as musicmatch, Corel, and iTunes! I hate all three with a passion, and uninstall Musicmatch and corel as soon as I get my computer (iTunes is necessary, but ONLY to buy songs. I quickly disassociate it with ANYTHING else and use WinAmp or even WMP instead). For some reason idiotic Corel decided to take over Window's preview, which works great for its purpose of showing you picures. I HATE how Corel assumes you want to start up their massive, complicated, and generally bad software just to look at a picture. Please, don't judge a PC by it's bundles. There's a reason these people pay Dell to bundle - because no one wants them and no one will buy them otherwise. Get a decently de-junked and equipped PC, then tell me you are so vehemently against it.
You all have Oo.o and Firefox, so get World Wind.
this commercial sums up everything i hate about macs and macophiles... pretentious and condescending FOR NO GOOD REASON; I've used the same apps on macs and windows for about 10 years; honestly I think windows is actually a little easier to use but that could be since I use it more - outside of that they operate pretty much the SAME; as for viruses/rebooting/etc/etc/etc/etc - I've had 1 minor threat virus in 10+ years of using windows, and i don't think I've EVER had XP crash on me (and I'm generally running several high demand apps at once) - what it boils down to for ME is price - I can spend much less and get just as much of a computer building a PC - and that's the bottom line - mac users are paying more for their computers to keep Bono in their commercials and to keep car manufacturers making their vehicles "iPod Compatible" (seriously, what's the problem with just adding an audio jack), not for "better" computers (don't get me wrong, I like macs, but the whole our-farts-don't-stink attitude the mac community puts off is pretty offensive)
You point is well taken, that these adverts are likely to entertain a Mac user like myself. They will keep some folks buying more, not me as I said. I hope they don't turn folks off, just turn them on to some truths. However, in hindsite and review, the ads do seem to be smug, and that is part of the very large hilarity value I get out of them. Its also known that Apple has to keep its loyalists and fanatics in the circle of 'life', just in time to shell out another 200-300% premium to have the latest dreulishly evil eightby x86 processor system from Apple. I still have a hard time wondering if anyone even buys quad dual core for something other than writing a Transputer Emulator on top of the x86 hardware, and coding in Occam for yucks. However I'm sure I digress...
But perhaps not the religion you seem to think.
Check the visual markers. Apart from some mumbled chatter about computers, what's really being pushed is faith in youth and slimness. And an equally passionate horror of age and weight.
The message for young people: "PCs make you wrinkly, round and impotent, and you'll listen to bad music." For middle-aged people: "Macs are the Fountain of Youth; get one and you might not need as much Viagra."
Nothing new there. These are essentially the same codes used to sell everything from L'Oreal to Quattro razors.
However, there's also a mildly interesting angle, too, found in the metaphors in the Network ad: culturally adept, the young guy is able to speak Japanese, while the middle aged guy fumbles around like the Dork-on-a-Foreign-Vacation speaking the one line of Italian he knows. In an era when xenophobia is pushed for ideological reasons, that's a striking decision.
In short, this pitch stakes its claim as much on the technical as the associational virtues of Mac ownership. It will alienate some, and Apple is essentially saying that's OK: if you're turned off, they don't want you. I'm keen to see if it works.
Every time I've messed around with Linux, there most certainly has been a need for configuration, compilation, kernel tweaking or GPU configuration, building and debugging to make it into a useful machine.
Could you try copying a 17MB file and see how long it takes for us.
Thanks
I managed to catch SpyBot, I think through Firefox, just by hitting a link on Digg.
Spybot is an adware removal tool, free, and a pretty damn good one too. I'm unsure how you managed to "catch" it, but I strongly suspect shilling for apple makes it relatively simple, since you obviously haven't the first clue what you are babbling about.
What he can't kill, he has sex on. Trent.
Of all the ideas. Maybe Dell should launch a campaign where they show the 20 year old "alternative" person with 40+ piercings trying to install... ANYTHING on a Mac. That'd be good advertisement. "Don't buy PCs, people target them with viruses because over 95% of the computer using market uses them." ...That always works.
If I want to use a control key shortcut, I either have to twist my wrist in order to use a thumb, or move one hand off of its position in order to use a pinky.
Getting a bit OT here, but:
I've always used my palm, the part just below the little finger to hit control. Not exactly touch-type, but it works for me.
A witty
It's possible but unlikely that the operating system architecture of MacOS is inherently more resistant to viruses. I'd sooner guess that by lowering the bar for entry by removing the requirement for machine based on a PowerPC chip, Apple may be opening themselves to a lot more viruses. At the moment it's got the best of both worlds; No PowerPC virus works, no x86 virus exists yet. Every idiot script kiddie has an x86 box, however. This is worrisome, and I can't help but think that we'll see more viruses for MacOS x86 than we ever saw for MacOS 68k or MacOS PPC.
It's been a long time.
All attacks are a cry for help.
I hate it when another company, or entity for that matter, resorts to attacking hte other. Whether it be in business, politics, or even daily life, it's just ugly, unprofessional, and lowers both parties involved.
I gotta have more cowbell.
* Windows XP does have a way to remove administrative access from users, I used it and used Run as a different user when I needed to do Administrative stuff.
* During the last 14 years I used only windows (switched to ubuntu just the last month) I only had a virus once, in my early times, it was an MSDOS virus, it did not delete any vital information and it was possible to clean it with an antivirus
* I did use internet and IE for a long time and was never exploitted, mostly cause I used firewalls I guess
* Even so, I hardly had freezes in Windows XP. Windows 98 was a bitch with all the blue screens, but the other versions were actually decently estable.
There isn't any warrant that if you use windows you will get hacked, and I seriously doubt using a mac will make you less vulnerable, in fact I would sue those guys for false advertising.
I seriously doubt a Mac will be less vulnerable than a PC with linux or FreeBSD. And afterall the advertisements were about the Computers not about the software, it is dumb to believe that a piece of hardware would be less vulnerable or "invulnerable".
I can't believe mac users still rely on the brain wash ads by Apple. They should quit their false feeling of safety
And macs are like much more expensive than PCs, my old P4 PC with Kubuntu is really fast and powerful and it sure costed much less than a pretentious mac, and the only thing I would get in change of all the money would be the right to say "I have a mac I am superior to you, PC user"
Copyright infringement is "piracy" in the same way DRM is "consumer rape"
Apple is marketing to the general public - the people who use "PC" to mean a "computer using Windows"
... now they run on something else"; I was assuming it was going to be some embedded application, console or some "media device" thingy. I don't mind them trying to distinguish Macs as not being "PCs", but the way do it is rather confusing, not to mention inconsistent since they also run adverts saying that Macs are PCs.
I have to disagree - to the general public (i.e., not us geeks), a "PC" means a computer. In practice it means a computer using Windows, but only because most PCs run Windows, and not by definition. Put a different machine there, and they'll still think of it as a PC.
They're using informal language because the people they're targeting know exactly what they mean when they say "PC" - their audience knows that the "Windows" is implied.
Not really - most people don't have a clue what an Operating System is.
Even I was confused by their "For years Intel chips have only run on PCs
Have a look at these old Apple Manuals/Advertisments and you will see that Apple has been calling their products Personal Computers since day one.
You don't even have to look that far back. Remember their "Fastest PC"? "First 64 bit PC"? There they were happy to use the definition of "any personal computer (except those which are faster, or were 64 bit years ago)". Indeed, their whole argument of being able to claim that Macs counted whilst Alphas for example didn't *depended* on the argument that Macs were PCs. Now they state this isn't the case.
Well, I don't know if it was a HATE campaign, but the first Mac ad - the 1984 ad that showed IBM as Big Brother and IBM users as colorless drudges - worked well for me. --gene
Gosh - you're exactly right....
If you read everyone else in this thread, you'd believe PC is an IBM trademark & Apple's never used (and certainly not in the last 15 years!)
Thanks for your support.
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
Seriously, put a Mac and a, um, Dell in front of 1000 people and ask them to point to the PC.
Well, firstly your question is loaded, in that "point to the PC" implies that only one can be a PC, implying which definition of "PC" is being used, and only geeks are likely to give pedantic all-inclusive answers.
But if you asked "How many PCs do you see", I'd say the situation would be the reverse. The geek is more likely to use "PC" to mean a particular architecture, and say "1" (although a pedantic geek would probably point out both definitions), whilst the average person would say "2".
The average person isn't going to know about operating systems (how will they react if you put a Linux PC in front of them?) nor know the technical differences between the hardware. It's possible that if they see enough Apple adverts, they'll learn that "Apple logo means it isn't a PC", but that would be an example of advertising influencing people, not the other way round (and certainly it won't have had an impact yet, since until recently Apple ads told people that Macs were PCs).
If you want to quibble between 1989 and 1985, go right ahead, you win. Your statement about Microsoft is still silly conspiracy theory however.
Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
I only wish I were as young as you claim me to be :)
Showing the Mac as a sloppily dressed young man who dresses like a ten year old boy does not promote a good image for the Mac. In fact, most Windows people I know are dressed like that. I guess you could say it's good marketing to try and identify with people who they hope will be their future customers, but I don't like it. In fact, Macs are machines of great culture. With the beautiful fonts and creative capacity of Macs, they should be pushing a vision of a new and global Vienna of the time of Mozart at the apex of culture near the end of the time they were still leading the Holy Roman Empire. Mac should be a man who is not afraid to be a man, in a dignified suit. Windows should be a spoiled, modern child.
After 8, 9, 10 ? years of trying to play .MOV files on windows boxen and always failing, I'm finally tempted to get a MAC just to see the friggin videos that people are talking about!
.MOV files! Maybe it can't work behind firewalls? I have no other ideas.
Apple doesn't even provide a link to download the player on the pages that offer the damn media! And the "Update" functino in QuickTime Player always says "codec unavailable" or "Program is up to date".
On the one hand - I understand it'd "Just Work" on a MAC, but on the other hand, QT Player is made by Apple - if it won't even play their own ads, should I believe that it would work any better if I had a MAC instead of WinXP?
Over the years, the only video software that has been more UNreliable than QuickTime is Real - And you KNOW it's bad when your software is compared to Real!
If anyone has any tips on how you get these Videos to play, please let me know - I know that I am the exception, but for the life of me, I've never had any luck with
Maybe some PC manufacturer should do the same ads showing the millions of iPods with the 'sad face error' on screen. Apple are far from perfect.
You moved your mouse. Please restart Windows for changes to take effect.
How is it a conspiracy when they were extremely open about pushing that use of "PC" into the public vernacular?
And even if it was a "conspiracy", how could any conspiracy theory about Microsoft Astroturfing ever be dismissed as "silly" when they have been caught red-handed doing exactly that sort of thing on many occasions?
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Even easier: show me a game that has "PC" on its box but isn't for Windows...
It's either "PC", "Mac", or "PC/Mac".
How can the general public NOT associate "PC" with "Windows" after years of games labeling? It's the same as brand names that gets associated to some products, such as Jell-o.
Actually - think the distinct is simple -
:D
If a machine can run OS/2, DOS 3 - DOS 6.x etc it is IBM compatible. Things like a Tandy, for example
If you can't boot DOS, it isn't a 100% IBM compatible.
I just tried, and I can't boot DOS directly with boot camp. Even with a USB floppy heh.
-WS
An operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.
You have confused astroturfing with contrarianism, aka trolling.
Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
So Dell is unlikely to be selling PCs in 5 years? Do you really think that's the common usage of PC? I don't think many would agree.
I think PC is generally intended (these days) to mean "personal computer". It also has a meaning that is "not a Mac" that's a hold-over from when the IBM-compatible computers were a significantly different architecture from Apple's offerings. However, these days, Apple switching to Intel and all, the hardware differences between my MacBook and a high-end Dell or Sony laptop are negligible.
You are just repeating the same argument everyone else is hashing over. My tounge-in-cheek comment was that it used to be marketed as "IBM PC/AT/XT, Tandy, or 100% compatible" - and yes, DOS 6.2 back runs on anything that is 100% IBM PC/AT/XT compatible. So there - it could very well mean that DOS will eventually not run on a Dell.
Your definition means that my PDA (which is a personal computer) is a PC. It means that my old Sage and my TRS-80 are PCs as well as my TI-92. They are all computers, they are all for personal use.
I have a MacBook Pro which I use regularly. It is certainly a PC, as is my IBM T42. I'd agree that CPU has nothing to do with it (otherwise an XBOX would be a PC).
I would agree with Apple's team that PC currently means a Windows-based x86 machine, because when I just asked 4 people around the building what a PC was this morning, that's what they all said.
-WS
An operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.
Apple's are now IBM clone (since they now use Intel processors and OSX is a Unix-based operating system) and all Unix-based OSes can get and will viruses, yes even Linux can get viruses. The Commerical is bull shit! It play down to people and now the dumb ass Windows users will think they will never get viruses on there New "IBM clone" Macs.
is it just me or did apple try to find a Steve Ballmer lookalike? Pudgy, glasses, loose shirt. Ballmer seems to have a much shorter temper however.
I'm just here for the sigs
Naw, Just make an alias of your Applications folder down in the dock, that way whenever you install somthing new it'l automagically be there.