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"I mean, I of course see the point of removing Jörg Schilling from the equation, but the guys from ark linux have already made a clean fork a few months ago called dvdrtools ( http://www.arklinux.org/projects/dvdrtools ) ( server seems to be down at the moment )."

Oh yeah?

You should see all the wonderful stuff I have when my server is down! ;-D

I mean, I of course see the point of removing Jörg Schilling from the equation, but the guys from ark linux have already made a clean fork a few months ago called dvdrtools ( http://www.arklinux.org/projects/dvdrtools ) ( server seems to be down at the moment ).

Arklinux automatically sets up a user called arklinux who has no password and essentially root privileges.

The user does not have any "dangerous" privileges - please see the description on how the security system works.
While it diverges quite a bit from traditional Unix, this is part of what makes Ark easier on the average user than most of its competition (except for the "autologin as root" ones, which are actually scary).

Oh, and the reviewer is lucky he used the System Install rather than going down the Expert path. The version of qtparted they used seems to be broken. See the Arklinux forum.

The version of qtparted we're using is good, but there has been a typo in the post-parted handling code that caused the installer to format some partitions on complex layout with the wrong filesystem.
This has since been noted and fixed (in the snapshot versions -- there will be a bugfix release soon too).

Trying to start Celestia and Stellarium (and Dog only knows what else) causes X to buckle

On some graphics cards. There has been a bug in DRI (the 3D drivers) that caused the X server to restart as soon as an application makes use of 3D functions.
This problem has not shown up in any of our own testing because we happen to be on hardware that doesn't show this (one of our primary problems is lack of test hardware -- keep in mind that Ark Linux is run on a $0 budget by (mostly) poor people).

The bug has been reported and fixed since -- the fix is in the current snapshot release and will also get into a bugfix release soon, right now you can fix it by running "apt-get update; apt-get -t dockyard-devel install xorg".

It seems like if you put all the developers together from some of the smaller but very promising distros, say, Frugalware, Arklinux, Ultima, and Vectorlinux Soho, for Slackware-derived up-to-date KDE-centric Linices, you could come up with a really kickass operating system.

This is true to a certain extent (Ark is not slackware derived by the way) - but there are some points the developers of those distributions could never agree on, e.g. package management (Ark will not give up rpm and apt-get, the others will probably not give up tar.gz), edge vs. older stuff, default browser (see the flamewar here ;) ), ...

Some of those points could be addressed by simply making a couple of different versions that build on the same base, but since some of those issues are rather deep inside the system (package management...), that would be rather tricky to do.

That said, we're certainly open to cooperating with others -- if any other distributor is reading this and interested in cooperating on some things, please drop us a note!

• Konqueror is much more than just a browser -- it can open anything
  registered with KDE, making it very easy to make it handle additional stuff:
  For example, if you click on an rpm file in Ark's Konqueror (no matter
  whether it's on the local filesystem or on a website), you get a graphical
  tool that will let you install the file. There's no easy way to get
  comparable functionality with any other browser.
  Similarily, we can just embed kmplayer into Konqueror to play any video, in
  the current version, even including WMV9. There are Firefox plugins for
  videos, but they're always lagging behind mplayer.
• Konqueror integrates better with the rest of the system.
• Konqueror's user interface is better - it generally does what people expect
  it to do, and it doesn't use the wrong button order that causes lots of
  people to click on the choice they didn't want to make (of course that bit
  could be fixed in Firefox)
• Konqueror is much smaller, and is what allows us to keep the basic
  installation to 1 CD -- Firefox with all the libraries it depends on (even
  excluding the ones we include in a default install) would need about 20 MB of
  additional space on the CD.
• Konqueror's rendering engine is better for standards compliant websites --
  Konqueror even passes the Acid II test, which Firefox fails pretty badly. The
  sole reason why there are sites that show ok in Firefox but not in Konqueror
  is that Firefox has a bigger user base, therefore web designers adjust their
  pages to its bugs. This is a bit of a chicken and egg problem -- Konqueror
  isn't getting accepted widely because there are some (though rather few)
  sites it doesn't render correctly, and webmasters don't bother fixing it
  because "nobody uses Konqueror anyway". We've decided to make our (small)
  contribution to start getting rid of the problem.
• Konqueror makes progress much faster. If you look back a couple of years,
  you'll remember Konqueror as a bogus browser that can render only the most
  basic websites correctly, while the Firefox predecessor of the time was a
  pretty decent browser and Firefox has remained that. Konqueror has managed to c

Arklinux automatically sets up a user called arklinux who has no password and essentially root privileges. You'd think that might be worthy of a comment. The system automatically boots to this arklinux user. I thought I was using Windows. You can give arklinux a password so no one uses the account and set up a new regular account with a password, but that wouldn't necessarily occur to a newbie.

There does not appear to be a GUI tool to configure file sharing. Even Konqueror won't do it. If you right click on a folder and try to create a share and it stalls out after excreting a dialogue box. I think even KateOS is more polished (I've never actually used KateOS, but it is from Poland, hence the reference).

Oh, and the reviewer is lucky he used the System Install rather than going down the Expert path. The version of qtparted they used seems to be broken. See the Arklinux forum.

Trying to start Celestia and Stellarium (and Dog only knows what else) causes X to buckle.

Another problem with smaller distros is that there isn't much of a community to help you if you are having problems. For instance there are fewer than 200 posts on the Arklinux forum spread over two languages. On the other paw, if I'm having problems with Yetis I can go over to the Bigfootforums where there are roughly 230,000 posters who can help me out. The Ark developers respond on the forums when they can, but really, they need to spend their time being developers. One of the things I look for in a distro is a well-developed, friendly community, not so big that you get lost in the shuffle (e.g. Ubuntu) but large enough so there will be someone who can help you. Maybe Mepis or Slackware sized groups, perhaps 25-75 posts per day.

On the plus side, Arklinux does have a very snappy and responsive "feel" to it, and I rather liked some of the customizations the developers chose. Maybe part of that is due to its cutting edge nature, particularly GCC 4.1, KDE 3.54 & X.Org 7.1 (which also accounts for some of the instability and video card problems).

It seems like if you put all the developers together from some of the smaller but very promising distros, say, Frugalware, Arklinux, Ultima, and Vectorlinux Soho, for Slackware-derived up-to-date KDE-centric Linices, you could come up with a really kickass operating system. But I am not sure developer time is necessarily additive, absent a pay-check because of issues of geographic proximity and human egos.

It's Konqueror. The Ark Linux devs give their reasons in one of the forums:

We think that Konqueror is a much better browser. Konqueror follows the standards (in particular CSS) more closely than any other browser, it integrates better with the rest of the system, it doesn't drag in hundreds of libraries nothing else needs, and its user interface is better, because it doesn't make weird decisions like using the wrong button order. (We think the weird "Do you want to do this? [No] [Yes]" button order used by Firefox and a couple of other projects is plain wrong, because it contradicts normal language use -- what's the last time someone asked you in plain English "Do you want to xyz? No or yes?"?

If you absolutely need it, you can simply apt-get install firefox though.

My opinion: Linus has; Schilling refuses. Slightly closer to "fact": DVD-R Tools works.

KDE is broken in the latest Fedora release, which doesn't really surprise me given the fact that Red Hat has always had abyssmal support for KDE.

I think applications like Konqueror File Manager, K3B for burning CDs and DVDs, AmaroK for listening to music, Kaffeine for watching movies, etc are a must for a desktop computer. It's a shame that Red Hat doesn't put more resources into ensuring KDE is usable on their systems.

Anyway, I'll stick with ArkLinux, Kubuntu and openSUSE since KDE actually works on those distros.

As noted above, the cdrecord code has been forked. This forked version of the code is now called dvdrecord. They dropped Joerg's artificial bullshit errors about linux, enabled the dvd code, and fixed up the build to use standard tools.

I've never used Knoppix but either you need to try a different distro or your modem came with a disc or a CD in which you can install the driver for it. Some hardware does actually come with drivers for linux while others are already supported by linux. Make sure there arn't any disks that you left in the box and try to use something like Debian http://www.debian.org/ or Suse http://www.novell.com/linux/suse/, Red Hat http://www.redhat.com/, Ubuntu http://www.ubuntulinux.org/, or maybe even a smaller distro like Ark http://www.arklinux.org/.

Knoppix is not the only Linux out there and by no means is it the best nor most popular. Hell I just gave you the better known ones. You could also try BSD. Just go to google and type in "BSD". Try dragonfly, Free, Net, or open BSD. Don't think that because one distro doesn't work that the others won't either. Each distro is very different.

Hope that helps, cause you don't seem to know about to many distro's.

While I won't argue with you about general sloppiness (I've never tried out that distro), I think it's necessary to understand that only a certain level of "clueless user friendly things" can be allowed.

The dialog you mentioned (link) labels the eth0 interface as "ethernet adapter". How much more abstraction can you expect? Should it be labeled "thingy that lets your magic number-adding box 'talk' to other magic number-adding boxes through a metal wire which fits into a rectangular-like hole in the back of both boxes"?

At some point, you have to expect the user to know what they're doing, or expect them to learn something. There is no way around that, short of having someone knowledgable literally hand-hold them through every step.

Take a look at ERIC - it's a pretty good Python based RAD.
(If you're using Ark Linux, you can simply apt-get install eric and apt-get install gambas to give both a try)

For what it's worth, I am the "Bob User" that he wrote for, and the article seemed to fairly accurately reflect the thought process that I would have gone through.

As far as easy installs go... I've plugged this before, but I think it's worth repeating that Arklinux has a really smooth install (including a little Tetris game to play during loading). After using Knoppix only a few times, I was able to install Ark on a Compaq laptop and give it a whirl.

Of course, your mileage may vary, but I'm dual-booting Ark on my home computer, and I've switched to using it exclusively (except when I'm playing Disney's Toontown, which only runs on I.E.), and I know next to nothing (I sort of know what a command line is, but that's about it.)

It's still in Alpha, so do be careful, but I would HIGHLY recommend it for clueless "windoze" users looking to get their feet wet.

The Dalai Llama

I would while away the hours conversatin' with the flowers... if I only had a .sig

I gather that, given enough time, most /.ers could write working binaries with nothing but a pencil, some paper, and a case of Jolt cola, but I guess this is the place for my first post: an old thread where my almost-complete ignorance works in my favor. Mod me redundant, but if there are any other newbies reading this, let me second NtroP's recommendation of Arklinux.

Other than Knoppix, ARKlinux is the only distro I've ever tried*. It has installed smoothly on both of my machines (a Compaq laptop and a home-baked system built around a 1.2G Athlon), using an interface that makes installation easy for newbs. It can either be installed by itself (be careful - this option overwrites your drives), or it can be installed parallel to an existing OS using unpartitioned disk space (it co-exists with Win98 nicely on my machine) or space that it clears for itself (if I'm understanding correctly, and I'm really not a reliable source). It's still in Alpha stages, so I wouldn't recommend trying to put it on the machine that has the only existing copy of your almost-finished doctoral thesis, but it's easy enough and stable enough that I've switched to it completely as my home OS.

If you're a newb looking to get your feet wet, have the obligatory one-night stand with Knoppix and then give Ark a try. YMMV, but I have nothing but good things to say about it (and I am a reliable source by virtue of my cluelessness).

The Dalai Llama

* Ok, there was that time I tried to use BasicLinux on a 286 laptop and learned the hard way that, unlike Windows, anything saved in the "temp" directory goes away when you cut the power. That doesn't count.

I gather that, given enough time, most /.ers could write working binaries with nothing but a pencil, some paper, and a case of Jolt cola, but I guess this is the place for my first post: an old thread where my almost-complete ignorance works in my favor. Mod me redundant, but if there are any other newbies reading this, let me second NtroP's recommendation of Arklinux.

Other than Knoppix, ARKlinux is the only distro I've ever tried*. It has installed smoothly on both of my machines (a Compaq laptop and a home-baked system built around a 1.2G Athlon), using an interface that makes installation easy for newbs. It can either be installed by itself (be careful - this option overwrites your drives), or it can be installed parallel to an existing OS using unpartitioned disk space (it co-exists with Win98 nicely on my machine) or space that it clears for itself (if I'm understanding correctly, and I'm really not a reliable source). It's still in Alpha stages, so I wouldn't recommend trying to put it on the machine that has the only existing copy of your almost-finished doctoral thesis, but it's easy enough and stable enough that I've switched to it completely as my home OS.

If you're a newb looking to get your feet wet, have the obligatory one-night stand with Knoppix and then give Ark a try. YMMV, but I have nothing but good things to say about it (and I am a reliable source by virtue of my cluelessness).

The Dalai Llama

* Ok, there was that time I tried to use BasicLinux on a 286 laptop and learned the hard way that, unlike Windows, anything saved in the "temp" directory goes away when you cut the power. That doesn't count.

This is the most solid "Alpha" version of any OS I've seen. As always, YMMV depending on the type of hardware you run, but I've seen it install flawlessly on both Dells (Optiplex) and IBMs (300pls, etc). If you are installing it on a laptop you may run into some problems, as laptop hardware can be a bit odd at the best of times and finding Linux drivers for newer laptop hardware can be a challenge with ANY distro.

The debate over which flavor or distro to use depends heavily on what you're used to IMO. Although there are sure to be plenty of people out there who will point out specific instances where "Dist A is better because FOO", I've rarely seen one distibution NOT be able to do something another can with a little tweaking and perhaps some re-compiling. People tend to stick with what they know and will argue vehemently for it, to the exclusion of all else. I "know" RedHat Linux and as such, if I'm going to set up a workstation or server to do something I've already done, I'll tend use and recommend it. That doesn't mean that Mandrake, SuSe, Debian, or even OS X can't do it just as well. Each has their strengths and weaknesses based on many factors including choice of installer software, package manager, default driver-selection, default desktop/window-manager, etc. but just because the choices for the default install may be best for a given situation doesn't mean that another distro can't be made to work just as well.

Unfortunately, at this point in the game, running Linux as a primary desktop entails some extra learning and frustration. However, as someone who has moved completely off Windows, I can say that the discomfort is well worth it in the long run and the knowledge gained in the process will serve you well.

Here are the instructions for the most common distros.

Generic
rm -rf /opt/gnome
Debian.
apt-get remove gnome
Mandrake
Menu > Configuration > Packaging > Remove software then search for gnome and tick all instances off
Red hat
Just uninstall red hat altogether, it is closely interwined with Gnome that is better getting a gnome hostile distribution.
Sun Java Desktop.
Get SuSE 8.2, its the same thing but without gnome installed

Gnome free distributions. These distributions dont contain gnome.

Arklinux
Xandros
Lindows
Lycoris
TurboLinux
Knoppix the K in it stands for KDE!

unite behind DEBIAN? thats the single most rediculous thing I've ever heard. Debian is the worst distribution for desktop use ever. even slackware and gentoo have better desktop support and installation instructions. Did Perens even THINK about any other distributions before saying this? The most promising desktop version of linux is Ark Linux which also is based on apt-get but with rpm packages instead. However, it's already usable for almost any newbie who tries it. DEBIAN? Do we want to wait 50 years for a desktop linux that doesnt play dvd's, or come with mplayer because of anal guidelines? honestly. rediculous. sure lets all unite behind debian (which is a concept in itself rediculous, nobody is going to be switching over to debian that hasn't already) creating a desktop linux distribution is a balance between stability and having the latest apps, and in the desktop linux world right now having the latest apps is still more important, because the desktop linux world is still playing catchup. its in the final lap with ark linux though.

Why hasn't Linux become the choice alternative to Microsoft at home? One simple reason: usability.
The reason people whine and complain about Windows and yet continue to use it is because it's easy to get things done on. You don't need a lot of tech knowledge to do some of the most mundane tasks on Windows or MacOS like you do on Linux. Who wants to edit a bunch of text files and deal with annoying permissions to change something that would take two seconds and a few clicks in another operating system? The average home user does not understand nor wish to understand "security issues", which in my opinion are over-used and mostly a burden in most of today's Linux flavors.
The two hopes (IMHO) for making Linux a great alternative to Windows is Mandrake, and most recently Ark Linux. They seem to be focusing on usability. In fact, Ark's goal is to be a "Desktop OS". I am typing this now on my Ark install (still in alpha, btw) and I've loved it since I first put it on here. Why? Because it's productive. Because it just works. Because I don't have to be a pseudo system administrator to use my home PC.

In order to succeed in a desktop market, that's what Linux needs to be: a desktop OS.

-Dej, Linux user of 6 years off and on until I found Ark;)

If someone wants to make a distro of linux that provides limited choices, what's stopping them? Why does every distro have to be limited in choices. That mentality makes no sense.

ArkLinux

Not extremely exciting, but the guy who left red hat to fork a kde-based distribution can be found here: ark linux

• arklinux@arklinux.org - generic list
• arkwatch@arklinux.org - this list is notified every time a package is built in the Ark Linux devel tree (dockyard). Read-only.
• arklinux-bugs-list - this list is notified of bugs in Ark Linux (as reported at bugzilla.arklinux.org
• .
• 
  
  To get on one of the lists, send a mail to listname-request@arklinux.org, and put subscribe in the subject.
  
  (e.g. to get on arklinux-bugs-list, write to arklinux-bugs-list-request).
  

I don't know if they are running their own software ot not, netcraft says it is running RedHat but it could be them since it is based on RH. Thing of it is, someone who works with them has either gone nuts, or they have been hacked already, take look at their support page. Apparently someone doesn't like him. I hear so many things about Linux on the desktop, but there isn't really a big united project like MacOS X, everyone seems to not like somthing about a project, so they go and do their own, they all seem to look/act the same, the only way todo this right is to put some big money into that for motivation, but open source doesn't do a good job at that. Hmm, mods wont like that.. Linux RoX0rZ f0rEvEr - Give Karma!

nice troll there, http://www.arklinux.org/support.php! who would have guessed!

I'm already installing, just look at that support Seriously though, don't click the link, it's goatse. What the hell is with that??