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Using Computer Stores to Spread Open Source?
DigitalRaptor asks: "I live in a small city with about 4 or 5 computer stores, most of whom I know personally. None of these stores offer Open Source software on the computers they sell (Firefox, Thunderbird, OpenOffice, etc), and none of them have anything in place to educate their customers about spyware and viruses. I'd like to approach them with all of the relevant information in a presentable format. I think this would be a great way to spread OSS and to help the average consumer at the same time. Is there a project out there for this purpose that local advocates could use to approach computer stores in their town?"
They make money cleaning spyware and viruses off computers. Why would they educate their users about them?
First of all the Mozilla project (for example) should produce a boxed version of their product suite. Store customers want somthing tangible. Microsoft could offer everything as downloads only, but instead they package it into a fancy box. I would suggest the cost of the open-source software should cover the packaging and that's it.
That's another topic, man... ;-)
2|\|d p057!
I think thats a great idea.....it would be even better if you could maybe put together some cd's that could be distributed with the computers, something similar to the ubuntu free cd's idea
Have you checked out TheOpenCD? That one contains a number of well-known and useful open-source applications for Windows; it should be easy to make (possibly customized) copies of that one to include with new computers, for example.
quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur.
Why would the stores listen to you or care? Honestly, Slashdotters (admittedly, like most people) have no clue what it takes to run a successful business. Independent computer stores have been hit very hard by the fact that geeks have no loyalty, and shop mainly at big box stores, and generic online merchants (tiger direct, etc). The *only* way that the few remaining independent computer stores, which are already probably struggling, will even begin to listen is if you have a way for them to improve their bottom line. Bottom line.
Ideals about "Freedom" don't really matter to people if you can't pay rent. You'd do well to remember that before you started preaching to them about how they should run their business.
No. Please post a sourceforge link when you're done ;)
Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
The Open CD includes a lot of open-source software, including Open Office, Thunderbird, Firefox, Gimp, etc. I've got a few stores here in my local area distributing the Open CD, and they say they have had great success. The key is the rep educating the customer when he or she buys a new system about the dangers of viruses and spyware, so they have to be willing to go along with it. But the good news is that there is already a compilation of applications for that purpose.
bash: rtfm: command not found
and hand them a few of these in DVD cases with nice covers.
http://www.theopencd.org/
I see this as a nice implementation to do for people... But the sad thing is that most desktop users don't really care about taking care of their computer. They want it to just work and don't want to bother actually trying to protect it from breaking.. PC users just don't listen, especially when they buy a computer that is working just fine... "Its working great, I don't need to change anything".. Maybe it would be a better idea to implement this idea after the consumer has spent 200 dollars to get the computer repaired AFTER they have screwed it up.
Ask them if any of their customers have already asked about open-source? Then go from there.
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A great source of open source information might come from the Linux User Group in the city where/near you live. LUGs are, yes, dedicated to Linux, but at the same time they might have someone who is also well versed in other Open Source projects.
Microsoft Publisher is great for making professional looking presentations... :PP~~~
I work in a computer store, but the position of management (and it's been similar at a lot of stores I've visited or worked for) is that they don't want to push/give OpenOffice because they don't make money on it. In the retail market, it seems like value-added services don't matter anymore...if there isn't a profit to be made, it won't be touched.
Same goes with programs like AVG, Spybot, etc...we use the utilities in the service department as part of our spyware/virus cleaning services, but that's as far as it goes.
Trust me, I'd love to load our systems with Firefox, Thunderbird, OpenOffice, etc., but the retail culture here doesn't allow it!
the Windows Toolbox - http://thegoldenear.org/ - all the software on one CD
I haven't heard of any computer store do such... yet. Maybe like with everything, it takes someone to start it. So go and talk with them. Maybe it could end up like at my work .. doing tech nites about stuff like wireless networking or security or encryption for the people to learn more about them after work hours, enjoying the company of the other geek work mates and company sponsored pizzas.
:)
Maybe if one computer store would have such evenings, they could get some money back of it (parts, peripherals.. selling at low cost burned OpenOffice etc softwares) - and as well get a very nice mouth to mouth advertising by the people who would enjoy it.
http://www.spreadfirefox.com/
great marketing and proposal ideas found there.
Might also be applied to all other OSS
I think that if you were on the Mozilla project, and said, I contributed to this fine software, I was wondering if you'd like to carry it in your store, that that would be a swaying argument.
I think that if you were a consumer, purchasing computer equipment, and asked if they had the item, and you said you'd like to buy it, then they would probably listen.
If you said "my goodness, it appears that you're not carrying open source software... I don't want any today, but I think that you should carry it," that you'll sound pushy, no matter what you do, and that you're more likely to drive store owners away from this.
Seriously, did you change faiths last time someone came around your neighborhood asking you to do so?
You want a presentable format to persuade a business owner? Simple: As a condition to a substantial financial investment in that business. That's the way it works. Those who put forth the investment capital, call the shots.
Don't have the money to do that? The other option is to persuade the people who *are* making the financial investments, to share your point of view.
That's really how it works.
Another option, of course, would be instead of investing in someone else's business, start your own. Since you know ways to be more efficient than the others, you will be able to compete.
I had thought a while ago that as a public service, it might be nice to donate time to various goodwill/salvation army stores around my area and offer to load usable software on them - an OSS package that would be set up to most efficiently use the P-166 computers that are generally found in such places. Does anyone know of a good distro for such a use? Something that could easily set up for dial-up access would be good I think...
I have in fact a P-166 sitting right here that was donated to an org I work for that I was thinking to try out the plan upon, since I wanted to wipe the HD anyway before passing it along. Possibly the org might even use it as an office computer.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Some people from the german wikipedia thought it might be a good idea to sell the wikipedia for 20 on dvd.
And managed to get to no on the amazon.de software charts.
That much to the (always and often) voiced question about who would pay for something that could be get on the net for free.
HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
Am I the only one here who isn't completely gung-ho about the open source movement? I mean, I think it is good thing and I support it, but sometimes it feels like an agenda is being pushed by this site.
My genetic programming website: http://www.helpmefigurethisout.com/
Sad, but most people don't want to look beyond Microsoft's products, despite the headaches.
It's a classic abusive relationship.
Most people coming into a retail store are not ubergeeks. To a basic user, packaging sells stuff. Once they buy something, it has to be easy to use and install.
To expand Linux into this market, everything needs to pass the grandmother test. If she doesn't read a manual, san she install it and make it work with less than 15 minutes of phone support?
As experienced users, we often forget that most people have much better things to do with their time than learn how to make a user hostile computer work.
Well speaking for a small computer shop. The bulk of our income isn't from those who walk in the door. But from doing business with other businesses. Hardware, software, and services.
Consumers just don't want/need it. They want a box on a shelf that they can buy and they want support.
Open source gives neither of those. The /. community doesn't understand this because it's focused on the open source religion and not the open source reality.
Offer to preload your own Linux distribution. It could be a cut and paste from Ubuntu for example.
Include plenty of advertising for your support services and wait for the phone calls to start.
Most likely you will have to cut the stores in on the deal, perhaps they will take the hardware work and you get the software work.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Sooner or later the open source movement is going to have to stop relying on "its more secure!". What are you going to do when someone takes this excuse away? If you put out a better product, you'll attract more and more users. Simply put.
"The need to build the internet comes from something inside us, something programmed... something we can't resist."
There was a (somewhat) similar discussion previously, which might give some pointers.
Open Source CD Lending For Public Libraries?
IIRC one important conclusion was that the libraries feared getting in a position where users started to expect support from them regarding the products. I could imagine that computer stores would have similar reservations.
It is much easier to give librarians the choice and ability to lend them out in libraries, says this article:
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http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=03/12/14/
When you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness. So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.
First, why put OpenOffice on a system for free when you can sell MS Office or other commercial alternative for a profit? (Charging to install a free program wouldn't be very popular with customers, either.) Not to mention some people will still ask for Office by name even if you have OpenOffice.
Firefox is almost understandable, if it came pre-configured. Undesirable problems aside, there isn't much that Firefox can't do that IE can. But -- how would it help their business? People won't buy computers because they come with Firefox. It'd look bad if they charged for installation, too. So what's the incentive?
Thunderbird, however... a lot of software assumes Outlook Express or Outlook. Virus scanners and spam blockers often expect users to be using one of the Outlooks. Auto-configuration software and instructions from ISPs also assume this, so Thunderbird would go largely unused.
get car dealerships to give out bus passes.
Honestly, what the hell are you thinking of?
The businesses make money out of selling hardware and software, including preloading Windows installations. Why the hell would they look favourably on you suggesting they commit commerical suicide? Handing out OpenOffice is fine and dandy but dealing in it doesn't feed and clothe children or pay the rent. Selling MS Office does.
I appreciate you may have good intentions but you're crazy. If you are fortunate they'll be disinterested. I hope you are good a dodging punches. If you want to distribute 'free' software the library, community centre or somewhere like that is a far better place to start.
So, who is going to support these additional software packages? Who is going to be responsible for the software if/when it breaks, or if/when Firefox leads to a virus infecting the computer?
Geeks often forget that a major part of the computer industry is support.
Do you actually expect Office Max, or some mom 'n pop computer store to directly support third party apps? 'Cause that is what would happen... At least, when you have a licensed copy of MS office, and it goes whacko, you can call up MS and demand that they fix it. Can the same be said of the OSS that you listed?
What, do you expect these retailers to tell their customers, "tough nookie, we're not going to support it.. and there is no 1-800 number to call for help, either. We suggest you find the correct forum and post a request for help." ??
I'm sorry.. maybe I'm just pescimistic, but... GET REAL. A major computer manufacturer, like IBM, may have the resources to full support an OSS app that they themselves did not code (or code much of), but expecting a small retailer to be responsible for some random OSS app? Yeah.. right.
Sorry, bud.. but you need to join the real world. Until Mozilla actually turns FF into a retail (or at least OEM) package and fully supports it as such, expecting some little retailer to be offering it is just looney.
/dev/random
Ninja in at night and install Manditory flash how to's with Lazers and explosions - Along with OSS!!!
Average is dumb
see if you can get them to start handing out this. very useful introduction to opensource, without being as pushy as preinstalling software. http://www.theopencd.org/
You might consider approaching your local community college instead. A lot of them offer community ed classes for cheap or free to help out the community. You could pitch your ideas and maybe they will help you get the word out.
I do several at the school in my town. They advertise the class and provide the computers to teach it on, and all I have to worry about is teaching.
Maybe you could take the flyers for the class to your local computer stores to post.
I work as a sales rep at one of the big computer stores (none of your business which one) and I make money by selling things. I can sell $150 copy of MS Office Student Teacher edition, StarOffice for $80 or Linspires new package, OOoFf (OpenOffice.Org + Firefox!) for $30. Now, I'm an opensource zealot just like the rest of you, but which one is going to make me the most money? Good intentions can't help me pay the rent.
Mind you, if they can't afford $150 or $80, I take them to OOoFf. I'm just glad that there actually IS an opensource package on the shelf.
The best chance that this can work is to find a way that both the consumer and the computer shop can save money.
For example, the store can offer a computer and a choice of two software packages.
package a) commercial software with Norton and Microsoft works or Office and so on.
package b) the free software alternative but the store can tack on $50 on the computer price.
Well, you say, they can't charge for free software. While that is true, they can "fiddle" with the numbers. They can raise the base computer price $25, and offer a $25 rebate if you buy the commercial software package.
They can also sell a 1 year support contract for package b for $50 (and then they buy the service from Geeks on wheels or something for $25).
There, they make $50 ($25 + $50 - $25) for selling a system with free software. And the customer saved even more.
Win-win.
What is good is that the store builds a relationship with geeks on wheels and that can also be translated into money. For instance, whenever Geeks on wheels services that computer they would buy the part or software from the store.
The remaining problem is that the computer shop buys their computers from HP (for instance) and they may refuse to sell a system without at least MS Works on it because of some contract that they in turn have with Microsoft.
The Internet is full. Go Away!!!
Computer store owners are capitalists. They are in business to make money.
They can not make money by giving away open source software. Of course they can sell it. This might work for a few ignorant people who dont know you can download Open Office for free.
But try selling a copy of Firefox when IE comes with the operating system...
Think about it, people.
Only here can a legitimate complaint be modded flamebait!
Your heart is in the right place, but I'll bet money that not even 1 store would take you up on your idea. Why? Because your idea does nothing to make them more money, and in fact could reduce what they do make because of fewer software sales and fewer customers needing their systems de-virused.
Its like going to a Baptist church and asking if you can give out some literature pushing Buddhism.
The only way I can see a store letting you do anything like that is if they already sell machines with Linux installed...in which case they don't need your evangelism.
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
I went to Best Buy with 50 Knoppix CDs and rebooted all the display computers.
Not a bad idea. In fact, you could sell tangible packages of open source software for 5 bucks, and suggest the retail markup be another 5 bucks. Granted, that might seem ridiculous to people like you and I, but whatever works. You'd think there'd be some non-profit out there taking advantage of this right now with big retailers like Walmart and etc. Some people just don't have the time or willpower to download open source, but wouldn't mind spending ten bucks to get it.
*sigh* now I gotta learn to dodge katanas and knives as I buy my software?
I'm all for this. If it's not binary, though, it's a problem: I've only been able to compile one FOSS program from source for reasons unknown to me. I'll figure it out someday, I guess...
You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
It's simple why they wont offer security packages.
It doesn't make them money.
The computer store down the street from me charges $70CAD for virus removal (see: $60USD). They then charge $90 for reinstallation of operating system (all default settings with patches.)
Offering Firefox to fight viruses and spam is not in their interest, as they then potentially lose $150 in profit for each case to just pop in a Norton Ghost CD and let it do the work.
Nor would they want to even if it did make them a profit, seeing as how they get all Microsoft product at a discount + commission.
They wont go for OSS. It doesn't make money for them. And most people who buy prepackaged computers or NEED a techie to do that type of work for them barely understand what Hackers, Viruses or Trojans do, or where spam actually come from (ie: compromised windows machines).
...so the Gideons are jumping on the FOSS bandwagon? I guess we'll see leather-bound books with Firefox's source on their crinkly pages then.
Not that I'd mind, though it'd be a bit weird for 4:1 to refer to Line 4, Column 1 of main.c as opposed to Chapter 4, Verse 1 of Genesis...
You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
Maybe that's because flash sucks ass, you stinky cockgobbler!
like my new computer shop tech treasury in freeman SD usa, WE (me and my brother) are encouraging our customers towards open source alternitives. all systems we work on get opera, firefox, thunderbird,Oo.o, and a ton of other open/personal ware. we are even offering training and support. but as far as we know, we are the ONLY shop in the greater mitchell/yankton/sioux falls area doing this. of cource, if they REALLY want M$ watever product, we will still sell it to them AND still give them a CD with the open/personal ware. sorry about and spelling or gamatical errors, i only have an AA and A+ training.
aww the constitution
If the computer stores in your town are franchises of national chains you stand no chance because the local management is unlikely to have the authority to take you up on any offer you make -- you would need to sell much higher up the supply chain. -t
knoppix run live with open office and browser defaulting to your web site. Include info with offer of fee(unmentioned) based training. Or better yet with offer of small fee based classroom type course and URL and phone number.
Large type, printed right on the CD.
Stores, as opposed to mailorder, justify their markup by offering customer service. Choose open-source software based on superior support, including less demand for support, and the store can offer better customer service by plugging customers into that community. Where the OSS is free, it can still be priced, by charging for support offered. Even if that support is just training for new members of the community, like reading documentation, visiting websites, filing bug reports, and upgrading.
--
make install -not war
Thre goes my karma but I mean, come on...
This is...
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The main thing is, it doesn't matter if computer shops bundle Open Source alternatives, the average Joe is just going to say "Where's Word? And Publisher?" They don't generally even know there's an alternative to Windows, and these 'free' programs to replace Office are just plain scary. People distrust things that are free - ever tried offering someone an apparently unsoiled chocolate bar? People like to pay more for the recognizable brand and don't want some geek telling them that a free "open source" (whatever that means) piece of software is safer: it all sounds like communism...
That's what all those religious crispies try to tell me as I'm trying to tell them to get off my porch and never come back.
But...
Seems to me there was some CD project out there that bundled a lot of general use Open Source. The problem as I see it is that the vast majority of OSS is really of no interest at all to the "average" users. Sys admins and geeks, perhaps, but not "average" users.
Maybe the first step would be to get them to load Firefox with a nice prominent desktop icon...
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
"Why not? They can sell it for whatever the traffic will bear, with a zero cost of goods sold."
Just as long as they don't make any changes, else the GPL will force them to give those changes back. OOPS! There goes competitive advantage.
I worked as a tech at a local computer shop about 2 years ago. There was a constant struggle between the boss and I over if we should give the users OSS options. Eventually it was decided, by my boss, that OSS would hurt us. 1/2 of our business was removing viruses and spyware, install Firefox on pcs and people will be more likely to use FF, which means less likely to acquire viruses and spyware. My boss told me that was his idea, seeing me staring at him, mouth agape, led him to retract saying "joking." The next day he told me he asked people at MS who said if we gave OSS, specifically FF, with our computers that we would lose our "authorized dealership" status. Personally, I thought it was a cock and bull story to shut me up. I started looking for a new job that week.
http://www.mample.net
Dick Smith are one of the major computer/ electronics outfits in NZ with stores in most major towns.
All of their DSE branded hardware (generic stuff rebranded for the chain - cdroms, usb drives, nics, cases etc.) come with a driver cd. On the driver cd they include heaps of extras, including a lot of free stuff, including openoffice.org, mozilla, firefox, cdex, even the gimp. All this stuff is current version.
Also, they sell mandrake and openoffice.org for $5.
This seems to work really well, and I really appreciate it.
Last I checked spybot wa totaly free. Ad-Aware is free for noncommercial use.
I did the same thing, but to just a couple of machines.
The funny I noticed
is that one of the Best Buy display machines
was using a grub bootloader.
For those who haven't seen it, here's the Google cache.
Why do you mention information on OSS and malware in the same post?
Are you making the false assumption that OSS is somehow invulnerable to malware? I know how much you OSS advocates love to make this pretense.
I'd watch out though. Firefox has had more vulnerability reports (including an "extremely critical") than IE6 in 2005 (according to secunia.com). Wouldn't want to be responsible for misinforming consumers in order to peddle software would you?
Hmmm, let's see.
Now does anyone new to economics want to explain what will happen in this particular "within driving distance" market over time?
And more importantly what that'll mean for the future economic viability of OSS?
---
"Slow Down Cowboy!
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but I've only had good experiences with MS technical support. It was much better than the usual fault-tree monkeying one normally receives ringing computer companies. On one issue they phoned me back with a registry hack for example, someone thought a bit about my issues and responded. Perhaps I got lucky or something. I don't know what else to add on the matter really... I know its only a single data point but there seems to be a bit of kneejerk toward decrying them and it doesn't match my own experience. Call BS if you want, why not try them yourself?
I suppose it depends on your point of view. If you're a total mercenary, you wouldn't show a customer jack-squat. You might even deactivate their built-in SP2 firewall. After all, the more infected their PC gets, the more you get to charge (by the hour, 'natch) to fix it. It's a neverending revenue stream...
If you're a smirking misanthrope, you probably get a kick out of delivering the same condescending lecture to all your spyware/virus-infested "luser" customers. Why would you ever push some free tools their way? It would cut down on your fun... because there's nothing more satisfying than pointing out the shortcomings of others.
On the other hand, How many times do you want to see the same PCs coming through your door? The only thing worse than death is boredom.
If you're a benevolent sort, you probably would show them a few things... such little freebies sometimes make a world of difference, not to mention they generate a little goodwill and customer loyalty.
If you're an intellectual individual who likes stretching your abilities with a challenging technical problem, you'd probably at least show them the basics. After all, you'd get bored removing the same Gator/Hotbar/Netsky every day. Where's the challenge? Let them bring you a PC that somebody had to use a little ingenuity to infect...
I'm a benevolent sort, so I fix all kinds of computers for my employees and coworkers... for free. The goodwill it generates more than compensates me for the minimal time and effort it takes to clean out some spyware.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
It's FREE, they make no money. About the only thing they can charge is a "convenience fee" for putting software on a CD for you. Big deal, why bother, just download the software off the Net.
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As for spyware et al, ignorance makes companies money. 50% of Symantec's revenue is from their Norton Antivirus product.
But if you read my posting on this Slashdot thread from yesterday:
http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/05/27/17
Namely the use of a limited account, this would seriously burn into Symantec's revenue. Never mind any altruistic notions you might want to ascribe to Symantec et al. Yes they are doing people a service, but they are an agent for laziness at the same point. Still I do respect Symantec as an organization so don't misconstrue what I am saying here.
Cheers,
-M
I'll challenge each of you to do one of the following:
1) Burn 10 copies of Knoppix or whatever your favorite LiveCD is, have a decent looking label printed for it (and applied), print the various readme's in the various languages, create a cover/index page for it, put it all in a 3 ring (or similar) binder
2) Burn 10 copies of the full install CDs for the distro(s) of your choice. Again, print the readme's, install docs, etc., label everything nicely, and put it in a binder of some sort
3) Burn 10 copies of the OpenCD. Again, print whatever readme,etc. files are on the disk. Add label, binder, etc.
4) If you have the desire to spend lots of money, buy 10 boxed-set copies of the distro of your choice from some non-geekish retail outlet. Maybe even do it in separate purchases.
Now take the product of your above choice, go to your local library, and ask for them to be put into circulation. If you are given a hard time about breaking the copyrights, etc. just point to the copy of the license(s) you printed. Check to see if the media needs replacing every few months, either for newer versions or due to damage.
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
To my point of view, computer stores could earn some good money by *selling* open source software. That's the whole idea about free as in speech, not beer.
Client: I want to use my new pc to write documents and retouch my digital photos. Could you install Word & Photoshop to my new pc?
Store: Of course, they cost $XXXX.
Client: (laughing) Yeah right. Nevermind, I'll find some pirate versions.
Store: But you know, we can install you OpenOffice, GIMP and a lot of other useful software for just $20. They offer similar functionality and it's 100% legal.
Client: w00t!
And I'm sure a store don't earn $20 for each copy of Word they sell. In slashdot-friendly words:
1. Preinstall open source software
2. Charge a small fee
3. Profit!
I mean, at least the Star Wars fans got something in return...
For he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother.
Just to point something that might be a similar situation to others:
My grandmother doesn't know how to install office or windows.
She does sometimes use my computer if she ever needs information. I have Firefox installed, and I direct her to places like wikipedia.org or the cia world fact book if she's ever interested in geographical information about other countries.
Also my grandfather uses a word processor to type out his family tree documents that he works on. He wouldn't know the difference between MS and OO.o.
They don't give a rats ass about what browser or word processor to use. They're learning from the beginning anyway so the learning curve is not more difficult than any MS products. It could possibly be easier (with Firefox at least).
If you come out to Rural Utah and come to the little computer store that I serve (don't laugh now) as the Tech Manager... We bundle all the mentioned articles in our builds, including AVG and a full arsenal of Anti-Spyware applications, and Zone Alarm Firewall. If you bring in your computer for repair, we give you a the same anti-spyware package. Even if you have some already - we uninstall it and reinstall the latest version, make sure its fully updated, scanned, and we don't give it back until I am satisfied that it has been done right. Small computer shops do not mean slacking computer shops. We are also looking at selling Linux boxes... with either Kubuntu or Linspire on them. (I know Linspire is a commercial product, but it's probably the slickest and easiest version of Linux out there for people who can barely run windows) Often times if the customer is a wanting MS Office and is a student or I know they have a hard time with the budget... I give them Open Office for free instead of making a sale. If you don't believe me, come to my shop and see for yourself.
MadOgre.com
Cons: They make no money
Pros: It doesn't matter if someone steals it. They won't need security systems!
One possible avenue would be for him to sell something like firefox with norton suite as a security package, and make the limitations of firefox explicit to the customer. Charging a premium will buffer him from having customers think poorly of him when they realize that they can't see the dancing hamster, use their online bank, or whatever because it's not safe.
Firefox isn't going to hurt sales any, every copy of openoffice he distributes is taking food out of his kid's mouths, so don't even bother trying.
People who think they know everything really piss off those of us that actually do.
I know there pretty much aren't newsagents in da yankeeland, but you definitely get those small magazines in newsagents that have repackaged free software as 'the best 500 free programs' or that sort of thing, and sell them.
Of course, if you are a publisher, easier to put them in a nice package, but it certainly does happen here.
Not Free SF Reader
Same thing at my shop, plus the management doesn't want to learn about anything open source or free, generally only what microsoft/symantec/someothercorp will spit out. Even when it's obviously terrible software, open source alternatives are not considered. OpenOffice has made some inroads but as soon as one glitch comes up where it doesn't render a MS format properly everyone starts bitching. It's like that is worse than having to call microsoft when we upgrade a motherboard and they won't let a paid license activate over the web because it's already been done x amount of times. I used to offer Firefox but then my coworkers (who still like and use IE for some reason) tell me about their problems with customers calling up and complaining about Firefox to them. Instead of learning how Firefox works (which isn't hard!) so we can support users with it, they refuse. It's too bad really.
If you go into any one of the stores and offer to spend a big enough wad of cash, but only on the condition that they preinstall the OSS of your choice, you will get their attention. Money talks.
Apparently Slashdot doesn't want my text to be formatted properly....(my previous post wasn't in a big block of text like it is now)
Store customers want something tangible? You mean like support? A phone number to call when they need help? What? You mean they aren't computer geeks?
A tangible box is going to make them think there is tangible support - since there isn't, why bother?
I work at a small computer store and although we install Windows on all our PC's we also install Firefox as the default browser, Thunderbird as the default email client and OpenOffice.org for an office suite.
We also install Spybot, Ad-Aware, and if they want to pay for it McAfee Viruscan and Antispyware.
In fact we have a handout we give all our customers teaching them about viruses, adware, and spyware. You would be suprised how many people think Spybot is a virus scanner, or they think that IE is the internet itself. So now we have a handout about web browsers.
Geez, educating the world one user at a time. Its worth it though.
Some of their displays are setup so on a reboot they are set to a fresh image. So any changes that were made can be erased by rebooting the computer.
hey [br] iv got an internship at a computer store, and after I came, all our used and new systems go out the door with Firefox, Opera, Ad-Aware, Open Office and a copy of AVG 7 free version!! Me and another tech wrote a 'how to squash those annoying pop ups and bugs for good!' or also known as 'a step by step guide to keeping your windows computer clean' [br] So, do i get a cookie?
First build a system that has only OSS on it. Calculate the cost of parts and labor required and tack 5% in profit. Now find a brand name with almost all the same parts and some software. What's the real price difference? HP, Dell, IBM... they all buy software by the million copies and because of this the actual price per unit isn't that much. Infact, the time it would take the average person to find, download and learn about the OSS on his, little bit cheaper PC, wouldn't come close to a package deal. But I don't think that is what OSS is all about. It's about change and some people like change. Build a system with all OSS and put it on display. Explain that the warrenty is "ONLY HARDWARE" (I know, nobody gets that one... but we must try) and just give them the choice. Have a person on staff that knows about, and is excited about, the OSS movement, he/she can spread the word. Hire a OSS supporter TODAY!
I believe the appropriate pronoun would be "which", not "whom".
There's also the semantic issue of "personally knowing" something, which connotes a relationship which isn't congruous with what would be normal for a relationship between a store and a person.
(This post will be modded into oblivion, I have no doubt)
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
It will never happen. Stores will never offer anything for free to their customers, unless they will profit from it. It is just bad business otherwise. Why give something away for free, when you can sell a $30 anti-virus solution? There are no incentives. If a computer gets spyware, the computer company isn't responsible. It might tie up a phoneline for a few minutes, but thats all. Not to mention that your average CompUSA employee has no clue about OSS. I can't remember the amount of times i've walked by the anti-virus software aisle and seen a confused looking customer. I usually recommend that they download avg virus scan (not OSS, but somewhat free, as in free beer) or another free utility.
I could see an intelligent computer store setting up computers with OSS software for a fee, however.
...of porn, but wink at the customer and say, this is what is being blocked by the antivirus/ antispyware programs that we've installed. Remember, don't mess up the security settings or else you'll be flooded by them.
Of course, the customer unblocks the popups, learns how to UNSECURE the box so he can get more porn.
Two weeks later (or 3 days later) the customer shows up at the store: I can't get all this crap off my computer!
Storeowner: Did you change the security settings that we installed?
Customer: Uhm...ehrm...my son did!
Long story short: Profit!!!
THe business model will still work. At the same time, the customer is more aware of security than before.
Have you ever tried using Microsoft support?
After a set of email exchanges, you might get a live chat, with a "tech support" person that has access to the same things you will find searching Microsoft's site. If you opt to pay some rather large dollars for phone support, you get the same tech who doesn't know anymore than the bulletins posted on Microsoft's web site.
Support? It's Microsoft's "support" (lack there of) that DROVE ME TO LINUX.
Now I run Linux, I don't have weird driver issues that make you have to restart after boot up.
I don't have to reboot after installing programs.
I don't have to shutdown all of my programs when installing one.
I don't have to reboot when installing new hardware.
I can just yank out a USB device when I'm done using it, instead of clicking through windows to deactivate; same for firewire.
If I want to use multiple monitors with multiple video cards, I can, regardless of who made the video cards (Windows only supports a small list for this).
I can update my system and continue to work.
I can continue to use my computer while performing IO oprerations.
My computer doesn't need to reboot after updating.
I can update an application while I'm using it.
I spend less time keeping my computer alive, thus my time using it is more productive.
My last company probably saved about $20K+ per year after I switched due to higher productivity (not including software savings).
Of course there is all the virus and spyware crap that I don't even think about anymore.
Who cares about open vs closed source? I just want something that works. I use Linux because it does. I no longer use Windows because it never did and currently doesn't. I don't really give a damn about the licencing issues.
A Windows install with the equivalent software as my Linux box would probaly be around $3-4k. If it worked as well and was as reliable, I wouldn't min d paying it. But, I'm not going to pay $4K for some software that causes me to lose $20K a year in wasted time, that would be stupid. I paid $70 for Mandrake, and its now saving $20k/year.
This is my experience, I don't care about yours.
----- If communism is a system where the government owns business, what do you call a system where business owns govern
a local thift store installs suse on all of the secondhand computers they sell. not only do customers have computers that are clean from all of the crap the previous owner accumulated, they can learn about linux in a desktop environment... its a win win situation since they dont need to pay for additional licences
So, you demonstrated that people buying their computers could know their hardware will work on both windows and linux.
Looks like you are doing some good marketing on the behalf of Best Buy
----- If communism is a system where the government owns business, what do you call a system where business owns govern
Something like oooff, combining open office and firefox on a CD in a box.
I work on the sales floor of a computer store, and I must say... the demand isn't there.
:)
Our store has it's share of regulars who know thier way in and out of Windows, OSx and Linux, and love free software. Great. But do you know who makes up our biggest set of shoppers? The average user who simply doesn't care.
They're used to clicking on a blue "E", and accessing the start menu. They have friends using Word, Excel, Publisher and other and don't want to seem like the odd one out. They're happy with the stuff they've always gotten, and so be it. We've had Ubuntu running on a demo box for a while, and had OO.org on there too. We showed people, they thought it was "different" but always seemed to not like the missing start button, and the fact that it "wasn't Word".
In the sense of AV or anti-spyware, myself and the other sales guys do inform them of things. We tell them about Firefox, and about Spybot S&D, or Adaware, or MS Anti-Spyware. We show them TrenMicro's housecall, and we tell them about AVG Anti-virus. We talk to them about Windows Firewall, as well as other free options such as ZoneAlarm.
It does help, and we get the stories and calls thanking us for that on a near daily basis. But we cant push anything upon them. They'll still want the things they've always used and trusted.
That all said. Management does, sometimes, frown upon it. That's why this is anonymous. They don't mind us providing the information, but they don't like the length it takes. I've spent 30 minutes or more with a customer showing them things like OO.org, Firefox, and Ubuntu... and to the managers, that's just way too long.
Online, I use a nick that I've only ever seen used by me. I'd hate to see my job taken away because I wanted to provide you all with an insight from the sales floor of a small computer store, so this is anonymous. I've left the subscriber bonus on to try to get the post more noticed.
Hope you all have a great night.
Why would any consumer want more crap to uninstall when they get their new computer?
Just because they run a computer store, doesn't mean they know their Cisco router from their Unix mainframe. Having worked for a few different small town computer stores, I have found the people that work there to be "mainstream" computer users, although there are exceptions. I don't think I would expect a warm reception from anyone you talk to. Unless it is a MS product, they won't be interested. If they knew anything to begin with, you wouldn't have to "educate" them.
I work at a computer store in Chilliwack, BC, Canada, and I am doing my best installing Firefox on all the machines I see infested with spyware.
It helps the people who care enough to educate themselves by asking if there are alternatives.
Not only that, but we are actually selling machines with Ubuntu installed, instead of Win98se. Seriously, there are pitfalls, like hardware support, printer support, etc, but people (at least here) genuinely want a Windows alternative without buying all new hardware - Like a Mac which by the way doesnt support everything -
Say anything you want about how support is difficult, but its only difficult for OSS when YOU DONT KNOW OSS, so of course Linux naysayers are going to put practices like this down. In the end, GNU/Linux, and other free software, may just give my employer an edge. Edges are what pay the rent, my friends.
the only OS's that average joe computer user would be able to use is Windows or Mac OS -- besides they make money by selling windows... Open source doesnt sell well, because its free. I mean you could sell manuals and stuff, but once again, the average user has more familiarity with nuclear fission than linux i believe. With open office and stuff, honesly, microsoft is the best office suite, and how to you sell something thats inheriently free -- its not worth the time, joe user would keep asking "so is this microsoft" or "is it word, can i buy word? Do you have that" etc... its not worth the time to make such a non-sale. AS far as spyware, i agree with the guy who said that they make money by "repairing" spyware ridden machines and anti-spyware software. I guess you could make an arguement to make sure you attach anti-spyware stuff to the computer, but honestly, its probably a huge hassle for the salestaff to explain about spyware and stuff, a real time waster... esspecially for the average guy who will forget in a week and be back in a month for a spyware cleaning. Im afriad i dont believe their is a good reasonable way to do what you wish.
:-(
the letters i have to enter to post this thing is nearly unreadable...
Mike
I heart the RIAA & MPAA, im sure its mutual...
If a computer store sells software, it only sells software that most people want. Sure, today this practice only helps to perpetuate demand for Windows, but with the nice profit margins involved, the dealers don't care. The computer retail business is cut-throat with little room for idealism. Offering support for products for which there is little demand and no profit makes no business sense. It might if the number of systems being sold is large enough, but then we wouldn't be talking about a local dealer.
No, as an OSS advocate myself, I don't believe we can expect our local PC retailers to help up us break the Windows monopoly any time soon. Right now, I think the only way we can hope to do that is by influencing demand first... such as by making more OSS solutions like Firefox that seem cool to the average user. If, for instance, at some point enough of these solutions were to exist, and they'd available on both Windows and Linux platforms, then maybe more people wouldn't find it as intimidating to abandon Windows. As a result, eventually even Linux itself would start to look cool. That's the point at which our friendly retailers would start acting diffently.
Why not press up a few hundred copies of The OpenCD, screen 'em with a catchy logo...something like "Free Software! Fully functional Microsoft Word clone!"...and put stacks of 'em wherever you see AOL discs. People will find their own support, as they have and always will. Some choose to call Microsoft, some choose to call their nerdy cousin, and many simply cope. Wouldn't it be much easier to cope with the software on The OpenCD?
I run a computer sales / repair shop and i do bundle mostly open source offerings, mainly firefox for browsing, dev c++ for C programming (a good number of my customers are CS majors) and other apps. Usually I offer open source software where ever possible, in the case of firefox, the number of complaints i've had of viruses and spyware has been greatly reduced. As a result my clients are more than happy to refer my shop to their friends because of their overall positive experiences. Furthermore using open source apps in my experience have been alot more stable and have helped to reduce the overall cost of the system being sold.
If you start them off with copies of Ubuntu, etc.
I walked into my local mom-pop shop recently, suprised to have one of the guys hand me a copy of Ubuntu!
I doubt Ubuntu has the resources to just give these to computer stores. So I'm assuming either some geek in the company or other local nerd (like you & me) is evangelizing quietly but surely :)
I didn't get a chance to look at the cd cover of the Ubuntu disk.. so I don't know who was behind that part of it.
As far as helping people with their viruses, etc, well, if people dont' relize by now with all the publicity and problems associated with m$ products these days, then they just don't wanna know.
But since the customer is always right, and if their application needs are not tied to m$ specifically), the answer for the virus/spyware should again be as simple to offer Linux products.
And finally for all of the remarks in this thread about 'the bottom line' etc..., well the real bottom line to most people (customers) is being happy with what they got, for the money they spent... not if the people who sold them the product/services are making money.
There is no special, inherint, magical, sure-fire-way to make money in business.. just the opposite in fact.
People go into business to 'try and make money', but if they go into for just that reason, their chances are no better than the rest of the 9-10 or so that fail the first 4 years.
I try to make sure that I will enjoy whatever venture (business) that I get into, with only the money I can *afford* to loose, this way I don't start talking like others in this thread who think the whole world revolves around whether they can figure out how to survive in a business.
I will gladly loose all of life's battles.. in order to win the war..
Are you THAT GUY who shows up at the local computer shops to annoy the customers and employees but never buys anything?
I'd like to approach them with all of the relevant information in a presentable format
That would be Microsft Power Point.
...plus PLF for a handful of non-FOSS extras, and have it auto-update (use rsync to minimise download sizes) regularly. They have RPMdrake to point and click on if they like installing stuff, and they can either use it as-is (zero tweaking) or tweak their little hearts out point-and-click style. No compiling or command line required.
"We have both kinds here, Open and Free!"
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
I worked for awhile at a reasonably-sized computer store in Northwest Florida, which I won't tell you is named Tech Advanced Computers, and I really won't say their web site is at http://www.techadvanced.com/ .
However, I tried introducing F/OSS at my business, and was told to stop, and for one reason:
We could support Microsoft software; our technician wouldn't support Firefox, or OpenOffice, or Linux. It's simply much easier to be a Microsoft shop.
'If you're flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit.'
Computer users, esp. newer computer users are heavily reliant on brands to form the basis of their opinions on products.
.doc and .xls quite admirably.
For example, it was almost impossible to sell Athlon PCs where I worked: The less-abled customers had it hard-coded into their brains that it was all about the "Pentium, Pentium, Pentium" and nothing else.
Likewise, convincing users to switch software to another brand, esp. with productivity products seems as fruitless. For the most part, even the people that state that MS Office would cost them their monthly savings would rather not switch to the free OpenOffice; despite the fact that it handles
The more important the software is regarded by users, the less likely they are to want to switch to anything but what they hear in advertisements on TV. Thus the challenge of carrying OSS products in stores; or convince people to use them; will be a very tough, if not futile, undertaking.
$25/copy is probably more than they make from Windows, so they'll be happy, and you'll get a steady stream of customers. Depending on how things work, you can shift the price however works for you. You might find that $20/customer is good enough for you because of all the work that it ultimately generates. Whatever -- Have fun with it and see how things work.
This is what Open Source is all about.
Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
Frys electronics sells some OSS software in the stores
Various versions of OpenOffice (mostly packaged to compete with microsoft office and word perfect...
firewall and router packages and even tux racer
Build a system with all OSS and put it on display. Explain that the warrenty is "ONLY HARDWARE" (I know, nobody gets that one... but we must try) and just give them the choice
Doesn't Microsoft make retailers sign contracts that they will ONLY sell MS system software on the Intel-compatible hardware they sell? I recall a court case or two about this a few years ago.
Tag lost or not installed.
If you lived in Eugene, OR you would know that EVERY computer that leaves the shop I'm in has Firefox installed and set as the preferred browser. I also create a "Downloads" folder on the desktop and make it the default directory to save in to help ease desktop clutter. Add in a little Flash and they're ready for most of the web. Also, on our spec sheets we list OpenOffice as being available with the system and inform the user about it and it's cost. Many are more than willing to try it and it works fine for most. Definitely use the 1.9 branch.
I work as a tech at YourWay Computing in High Point, NC. I made a handout to educate our customers on how to avoid spyware. We install Firefox on all new boxes and most repair jobs. Then we tell them why. We regularly put OpenOffice on new boxes and always suggest it to any customer that asks about an office product. We have sold new machines with RedHat, Mandrake and Suse on them. I have also configured 3 Linux servers this year, of the 4 we have sold to small businesses. It's small but we are getting more questions about Open Source and Linux every month.
Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
...that we have to wait 18 years to see the first one?
Or is it just the usual films full of people behaving childishly?
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
The entire notion of open source, open books, open minds at all is deleterious to the entire capitalist system. Remember that, in order to make a profit in a capitalist system, you have to offer a skill or service that the average person can not/will not do for themselves. There are two ways to create a new market for a new business: either restrict the general public from doing something, thus forcing them to pay specialists to do it for them (Car insurance laws, for example. Time used to be when you were financially responsible for yourself.), or make up a "skill" out of complete thin air, and market it so it's importance is over-emphasized (feng-shui).
Computers offer the rare property of being fertile ground for both kinds of deception at the same time. You can pass laws against the open viewing of source code and criminalize those who try to see it anyway as hackers; and you can then build on the resulting ignorance infringed on the population by convincing them that computers are run by voodoo pins, eyes of newts, snake oil, and virgin goat's blood, and require a special high priest to cast runes and sacrifice bats to make them go.
Now run into the middle of this yelling, "It's easy and harmless to program your own computer; a little child could do it!" How to get them to be more receptive to your message? I don't know. Maybe you should try something easier, like convince nuns to take up street walking.
How about getting together with a shop and get them to pay you to create a stable, locked-down, damn-near-bullet-proof software load/setup that people can buy (with a new pc or as a rebuild option) that would seriously lessen if not eliminate their need for (a) having to get someone to clean up virus/spyware or (b) having to be aggrivated with any other form of support.
Seriously, why can't they make a PC that simply friggin WORKS! Zero hassles. Zero support.
As a worker in a small computer shop, the reason why we install Firefox on every new machine is to keep it safe as long as it's under warranty. Getting IE out of sight saves us significantly in "warranty" issues like "it's slow" from malware.
Regardless of the benifits of OSS, I just cannot use it on my machine until the US Robotics 5610B modem works under it. It is a real modem that I paid $85.05 for, and it says on the box that kernel 2.3 and higher support it, yet Knoppix does not support it at all. Until my modem works under Linux, I will be on Windows. Or does Knoppix not auto-install modems for some reason? Does anyone even have a solution to this?
Get your free Dropbox account with 2 GB Free storage!
My brother has a computer shop in the next small town (HippiesVille - aka Bellingen) He puts Mandrake or whichever newest magazine freebie linux on numerous machines. Because he is soo busy removing Windoze viruses doesn't really have time to learn Linux well enough to properly support those customers. The result is more work for me removing a half working install and putting in Debian and then getting them started with one to one. I feel you need a passion to spend the time to do a good job.
Go well
- Simple
- Flexible
- Effective
Effective is last but not least and I'd expect you to know all about that. Perhaps start a FOSS "brand" or range of brands? <shrug> Not my area of expertise, hoorah for you.Simple from the users' perspective ("user" in this case being either stores or local geek advocacy groups) means the kind of stuff that any idiot in any country can take down to his local print shop and get printed up, or for some things whack out a few score on his own printer.
This means Flexible: designing materials so that they work well with LeftToRight text, maybe even vertical text, are as much at home on US-Letter as on A4 and so on, and providing as close to source as you can get in in as wide a variety as you can get so that others can take it and redo a Malaysian, Hebrew, Arabic, Big5 Chinese or whatever version of it. Boxes, manuals, on-CD presentation and documentation: the lot. Or a version with no left hands showing, or models in modest dress or of a different race or whatever it takes to make it locally acceptable.
But Simple from your PoV means making up prototypes at the start which work in your language and format, and testing it out locally and in person, before imploding from over-ambition.
And if you need web space for this, can I suggest a SourceForge project? Or if you want a bit more control over what you're doing, I think Linux Australia (email to committee at that domain) would be interested in hosting such a project.
There are also marketing groups for a few major projects already (e.g. OpenOffice's), with whom you might wish to coordinate or whom on the other hand you might find a distraction from your more general process.
Email me at cyberknights com au if you're serious and wish to take the idea further. At the very least I can put up a discussion list and wiki space for you.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Perhaps they can start classes to teach openoffice and linux.
NOT A CLUE!
Actually they don't have much love for the technology at all - most of them seem pretty grumpy most of the time.
The last packet seems to have been corrupted so it says ":PP~~~" instead of "suck. )-:"
Just ask a few printing shops about MS-Publisher. Remember to duck.
If you want a no-brainer way to get a professional appearance (sorry, can't do anything magic about the actual content), try LaTeX.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
This is a new revenue stream for them; they can start classes to teach the basics of openoffice and linux, and then perhaps the scripting languages such as python and et cetera. They can also offer training and support to local small businesses and organizations, and help them migrate from proprietary to open source.
My guess is, most small computer companies would not be too keen on your idea. You want to do something that would A) Encourage their users to use products that they can't sell, and thus can't profit from, and B) Encourage their users to learn how to stop screwing up their computers, so they aren't employed to clean them (and profit from). This is much of the bread and butter of small local computer companies, so I'm not sure if you would get a whole heck of a lot of support.
That's not to say that you have a bad idea. On the contrary, it's a great idea! It's just I think in looking at the small computer retailer your digging around the wrong places. What you want to do is essentially provide the end user with information that will save him or her lots of time and money. That's not a bad thing, in and of itself.
If you really are ambitious, I'd suggest starting your own little company that advertises "Want to learn how to stop paying for software legally", or "Want to learn how to rid your computer of spyware and viruses without spending lots of money?" Then find a forum you can use to teach classes. Even a modest $10 a head should net you a decent payback. It may be small at first, but if you do it right, and word gets around, you could actually start making real money.
Good luck.
The Internet is generally stupid
When i need a 4 year old video card or something that doesnt have to be top notch.
just something to show a console or even 20 gigs of drive space for some box im making for something.
Those small stores are happy to sell me the used stuff they have laying around.
Try getting a 4 meg video card from best buy for 5 bucks or so.
Or a 16x cdrom burner for 5 bucks.
Stuff they can never sell or use anymore but for what i need it for its great.
The recommended markup on MS Windows XP Home (standard, not Academic or anything) OEM is AUD$75, and for MS Office 2003 Standard is AUD$60. As I understand it, that doesn't include any manuals at all.
The implication is that if you wanted to offer the computer shop some continuity of income, whatever you produce by way of FOSS add-ons has to look flash enough to be saleable for at least AUD$50 plus cost of manufacture.
I suspect that the "easy" way to do this is to break things out as Microsoft does, so you ship a package which has a "Web Browser" CD (Firefox and some plugins and themes), an "Email" CD (Thunderbird plus plugins and themes), an "Office" CD (OpenOffice plus a few handy tools and templates), an "AntiVirus" CD with ClamAV, "Graphics" with The GIMP and a passel of unencumbered images and tutorials, a "Games" CD with, surprise, games on it, a "Utilities" CD with 7Zip, WinSCP, PuTTY and so on. Maybe even a "Database" CD with a copy of PostgreSQL and/or ibFirebird on (MySQL, unfortunately, gets a bit complicated) and a GUI DB manager.
Each CD branded in common and distinguished by colour and logo, so it's obvious to the customer that they're paying about $10 a CD but sold as a bundle.
This sells for maybe AUD$80, costs AUD$10 to assemble and essentially replaces MS Office in the shop's income stream. All the shop needs to do is keep one or two sets of CDs in stock, and when one sells they do an rsync of the images and burn a new set, either pulling the accompanying leaflets and boxes from stock (they won't change much) or printing them on demand.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
...but I think it fits here as well.
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The recommended markup on MS Windows XP Home (standard, not Academic or anything) OEM is AUD$75, and for MS Office 2003 Standard is AUD$60. As I understand it, that doesn't include any manuals at all.
The implication is that if you wanted to offer the computer shop some continuity of income, whatever you produce by way of FOSS add-ons has to look flash enough to be saleable for at least AUD$50 plus cost of manufacture.
I suspect that the "easy" way to do this is to break things out as Microsoft does, so you ship a package which has a "Web Browser" CD (Firefox and some plugins and themes), an "Email" CD (Thunderbird plus plugins and themes), an "Office" CD (OpenOffice plus a few handy tools and templates), an "AntiVirus" CD with ClamAV, "Graphics" with The GIMP and a passel of unencumbered images and tutorials, a "Games" CD with, surprise, games on it, a "Utilities" CD with 7Zip, WinSCP, PuTTY and so on. Maybe even a "Database" CD with a copy of PostgreSQL and/or ibFirebird on (MySQL, unfortunately, gets a bit complicated) and a GUI DB manager.
Each CD branded in common and distinguished by colour and logo, so it's obvious to the customer that they're paying about $10 a CD but sold as a bundle.
This sells for maybe AUD$80, costs AUD$10 to assemble and essentially replaces MS Office in the shop's income stream. All the shop needs to do is keep one or two sets of CDs in stock, and when one sells they do an rsync of the images in case anything changed, and burn a new set, either pulling the accompanying leaflets and boxes from stock (they won't change much) or printing them on demand.
--cut-here----- >8 -------cut-here------- 8< -----cut-here--
Ideally, the box cover would be personalised for the final point of sale ("shop"), and the shop would attach fancy stickers, hand-write the version and date on and sign the product themselves. That last step makes it look a lot less like a Mom and Pop operation and a lot more like a large corporation trying to be personal.
I don't think we should be chasing a "large corporation" image exactly, but we definitely don't want an "isolated idiots" image.
In principle, the shop would kick back something like 10% of their take on each copy they sell, but we can expect a fair few of the fly-by-nighters to be dishonest and just take the money and run - and we should budget accordingly. Larger concerns (like Harvey Norman) would tend to bargain harder up front, but play fairer in the field.
I would like to take about half of whatever comes back and reticulate that to the projects represented, details to be considered if anything comes close to getting off the ground.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
>I'd like to approach them with all of the relevant information in a presentable format.
Don't you have anything better to do?
I am aways weary of people like you.
If you're so upbeat about doing something useful for free, go help the poor.
I will never go back to shareware zip programs for windows and all that flipping nagging. PDF Creator and CDex are also very, very useful.
If Mr. Edison had thought smarter he wouldn't sweat as much. --Nikola Tesla
I went to purchase an oopen source OS at an local store of a national chain, and found out that their shelf price was 100% abot the MSRP from the mfg.'s website. Doesn't sound like much encouragement to me. Also, no one on the staff knew anything about the OS, installation, though I suppose they could've given fairl comprehensible directions on how to open the box. My opinion, for now, is to support the Open Source Community by purchasing direct from them.
PC World in England starting selling Linux distributions from Red Hat and SUSE some time back, along with some other apps.
I went in a short while ago and found that they had all been pulled from the shelves. I asked an assistant who did not know what open source software was so had to ask someone else. The other assistant said "They did not sell very well" so we stopped selling them.
Let me get this straight, a multi tasking, multi user operating system with over 1000 programs does not sell for £50 but a bare copy of Windows XP with no applications coming complete with an out-of-the-box security nightmare sells like hot cakes for £130? I don't think so.
It seems a bit strange that PC world sell OSS when it is was not that popular, now that it is more popular they stop selling it. I fear a bung from MS may have had something to do with it.
a local shop here, has official Ubuntu cd's up for grabs. both live and install versions, ranging from x86-32 to x86-64. :)
almost couldn't believe it when i first saw it, so cool
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
So you're going to "help the public" by pointing them at a bunch of buggy, inconsistently written apps that are half-arsed rip-offs of the commercial software they are getting for free with the system anyway?
Don't try to boost your own karma points by pretending that this is in any way being done to "help the public". It's so you feel like you've stuck a pin in the arse of Microsoft while promoting the communist ideals of the OSS movement.
LOSER.
Lost your humor gene on the way out of the birth canal, friend?
Well packaged and good software on it but not very much of it.
I think the idea is good though, it might be worth making up some a more comprehensive CD for Windows, Mac, sell it for £5, with your details on it as a source of support for the software.
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When I first read the question, I assumed this was unlikely to happen. For a reason that I didn't see explicitly mentioned yet. While most of the discussion at post time is focused on the cost/tech support. What isn't brought up is that every open source program distributed may negate the future sale of another software package. After looking into what actually comes on the OpenCD, I'm starting to feel like this may be a moot point. There are only two packages that are able make a dent in the sales of commercial software. - Open Office - The Gimp Everything else seems to be either a toy or a replacement for many non-commercial suites. Many computers come preinstalled with MS Office, and apart from Commercial users, I can't think of anybody I know who uses Photoshop and paid for it. These aren't the only alternatives for these two packages, but they do seem to be the biggest sellers for what they do. The majority of threads on this topic, have been about tech support. One of the wonderful things I have found about (F|OS)S is that forums and google can solve nearly every problem you have. Because odds are, somebody's already had that problem. It's very unlikely that any combination of open source products will break internet connectivity. Some programs make it easy, for example: every install of Firefox, comes with bookmarks to the support forums. It can't be difficult to include a quick reference card of URLs for respective support forums which ever set of software you're sending out.
Laziness is a virtue, anyone who bothers to tell you otherwise, is clearly lacking it.
I am suprised nobody mentionned Ubuntu yet. They give away manufactured CD in a professionnal-looking sleeve. It include a live CD and an installation CD. Leaving a stack of those near the cash of your local computer shop to give away to customers as perk is a nice idea I plan to realize once I receive my Ubuntu Shipit order.
More info at shipit.ubuntu.com.
:wq
Bottom line is that unless and until OOo is approved by corporate IT (and it'll be a cold day in hell), if I want to use it then fine - but I'll have to check any document very carefully in Word before sending it out.
OOo can write PDF, which is the ultimate way of preserving formatting. What documents do you work on that need both precise formatting (precluding use of HTML or exclusive reliance on OOo's Word export filter) and editability by the recipient (precluding use of PDF)?
How about the computer be polite to me? Its a tool. The reason it exists is to serve me, not the other way around. ...says the tech curmudgeon
If the little green light is off on my usb drive I should be able to yank it out. Thats what the USB protocol is all about. Hotswap anyone.
Yanking it out without going through the motions on windows give youy a nice pop-up threatening doom and destruction. Linux does what it should, nothing.
btw, I hate Linux too. I just happen to hate it less than windows.
----- If communism is a system where the government owns business, what do you call a system where business owns govern
In New Zealand is a chain of stores called Dick Smith Electronics who are selling OpenOffice, Fedora, Knoppix and Mepis CDs on their shelves. Some of the product managers are either active posters or lurkers on the NZ LUG mailing lists.
You make the mistake of thinking you can educate the fundamental stupidity out of people. You can't.
virus support is free form Microsoft. Just say you've got a virus and you're in que, no arguments. The cust serv reps aren't technical enough to call you on it even if you're lying. Now, the quality of the techs may be debatable...
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Not a lot of choices, but they have Knoppix CD's, and a Fedora DVD as well as FreeDOS. http://computerdeli.com/
"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
> With MS Office, the store can pass the buck to Microsoft.
No you can't. Go read the license. Part of the special OEM pricing is that the OEM, that is the store in the case of a mom & pop chop shop, is responsible for all end user support. Why do you think Dell owners call Dell for support instead of Microsoft? Same reason. Only if you buy your copy of Windows or Office for full retail in a box do you get the right to call Microsoft tech support without whipping out the ol' credit card.
Which is one reason why it would make sense for a shop to include OOo. Drop in a disclaimer on the ticket to the effect of "Open Office is included at NO COST as a courtesy to our customers. However, since we have made no money from supplying it to you we can only provide support on the same for fee consulting basis we provide for ANY computer problem. You are encouraged to visit the software's Internet home at www.openoffice.org." Face it, one or two support calls will devour all of the profit from selling an OEM copy of MS Office.
Democrat delenda est