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(A word to the wise: there's drivers for Radeon 8500 and up posted from 16th Feb 2005 on the http://www.atitech.ca/ website. They even have x86_64 versions should you wish them. I don't have a Radeon, so I haven't checked how easy to install or reliable they are -- anecdotes say they're quite a bit better.)

How can you honestly say your building better technology for a gaming system than what's on expensive desktops or servers ?

Remember all the sony hype about their 'emotion' engine. It's not much different than a good desktop of that time .

ATI demo's

Will it look like these ?

I just tried it with 6.0, and it seems to work well enough. I mean, I have seen FAR worse web sites. ATI has an awful web site for driver downloads. It is completely unusable. Any time I try to get drivers for my Radeon I have to use IE.

The point is? I see this all the time, as I have used Opera as my default browser for like 5 years. MSN's page is no worse than many, and better than some.

Man. Sure is awful there's only one video card maker around...

I remember when I had to go to http://www.atitech.ca to find drivers for my old Mach 64, as ati.com pointed to something else. I wonder where that company is now?

Let's look at the facts, shall we:

• The AGP Mac Radeons won't ship until September. (Doubt that? Here ya' go.)The Cube is shipping imediately. How is Apple supposed to include a board which doesn't exist in OEM'able quantities? You can't even buy the damned thing direct from ATi yet. If they'd advertised the Radeon as shipping with the Cubes and tower G4s immediately, we'd see another /. story in six weeks about how Apple has "production difficulties", letting the bigots* rip them again for not being able to ship hardware or, if Apple backtracked to Rage128s, ripping them for switching to a board which they can actually get ahold of. Screwed either way.
  
  
• The Cube is fanless because Apple's engineers didn't want to have a fan, and engineered everything all nice and purty so the lucite doesn't melt and give you a Dali-Mac. (Okay, I admit: that would be cool.) This is a home computer, one that isn't quartered off into a separate room. It's meant to be out in the public space and be seen--and heard--when in use. It is the Ikea Mac. You need to realize: the masses are not geeks. many people want a machine which is aesthetically pleasing and, while running, doesn't sound like an A320 on engine startup. If one specifically wants a computer that is quiet and has no fans, would one put a video card with a fan in it? No. That would be stupid. It'd be like that hybrid gasolone-electric car using a big honkin V8. It's contrary to what the product is supposed to be.
  
  
• When the Radeons ship, it's almost certain you'll see them as a bto option and, more likely, as the default video for the tower G4s. This is the market that needs the Radeon and Apple is not likely to piss off one of its major core markets: prepress. (But in ATi's defnese, the Rage128 chipset handles Quark, Photoshop, and Illustrator just fine. 1600x1200 on a 21" display, millions of colors, etc. Wicked fine in Photoshop, Quark, and Illustrator... too fast in Quark, so I leave the "fast scroll" unchecked and the scrolling speed cranked to "slow" in Quark's own preferences.)
  
  
• Yes, ATI's cards suck, but the Mac video card market isn't exactly diverse. ATI is the best bang for the buck, and that's sad. I want to see nVidia support the Mac, if not just to give ATI some competition.

* Oooh yes, asterisk. We're in a Catch-22 as it seems there are many /.'ers who seem intent on not liking Apple regardless of the real world facts. It's somewhat amusing that most people on /. claim that choice in everything is always the best solution, allowing the best widget to sort itself out from the competition. If one truly belives this, isn't it a bit contradictory to keep pressing Apple's face into the mud, especially when they actually haven't done anything? Christ... yeah, it would be a different situation entirely if the Radeon's had been out for two months and Steve Steved their inclusion. But that's a different situation, not the reality which is at hand.

The Win9x drivers aren't very good either, and ATI has a history of dropping support for older products as soon as new ones are released. For example, the 3D Rage II/II+ drivers have not been updated since July 1998, even though they have several known bugs (corrupt fonts, disappearing mouse pointers, etc.). But I switched to Linux in June 1999, and I've had no problems with the card. Even my TV tuner works better than in Windows. The Windows tuner program is huge, and takes about 45 seconds to load, the Linux program (GATOS) takes 1 or 2 seconds. And when the Windows program crashed, Windows needed to be restarted before the tuner could be used again. Actually, it seems ironic that a group of people with no documentation (GATOS was originally designed with reverse-engineering, I'm not sure about the X drivers) could support the card better than ATI.

I think it's interesting that all 3 motherboards have VIA chipsets. I would like to know how it works on board with a different make of chipset.

According to ATI the card should work on most systems (http://support.atitech.ca/infobase/304 7.html). You may have a defective card or there is a hardware incompatibility but I can't find any documentation to that fact.

ATI's documentation, like their products, tend to be conservative. They don't normally make outlandish claims so it doesn't surprise me that your docs say Intel only.

Your original statement was a very broad condemnation of ATI that I had to respond. I hope you do find a home for the card, I've always found ATI products to very dependable if not cutting-edge.

Rick
thechink@hotmail.com

Please release either Linux drivers for you products or the specs so that I and others can write the drivers. Linux is the fastest growing
operating system in the market and it seems rather shortsighted that you do not release drivers for that platform.

My next video card will not be one of your products unless it is
supported by my operating system.

ATI - email: sales@atitech.ca
phone: (905)882-2600 - Sales and Marketing

nVidia - email: info@nvidia.com
phone: (408) 615-2500

Please add to this list. Personally, I'm amazed these companies don't have 800 numbers (they probably do and just don't list them). That does not speak well for their desire to hear feedback from customers.

I assume that the remaining specs will be along shortly, together with the 3D acceleration API..? The ATI FAQ says not, but I'd definitely like to see it. I mean, someone offers to write them drivers and therefore sell lots more of their cards, and they say no...? Boneheads.

ATI's 3D Register Specifications are considered proprietary and confidential, and as such have NOT been made available to 3rd party
software developers.

3D acceleration support is currently limited to those drivers which are written by ATI to operate in Windows 98, Windows 95 and Windows NT.

At this time, ATI has no intention of writing 3D Accelerated drivers for any UNIX Environment. We also have no intention of releasing the proprietary information required to implement a 3D driver.