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A Hardware Threepack

Johnath writes: "This just happens to be a great time to be a hardware junkie. For those interested in learning more about the metal under their PC's hood, Tom's Hardware has a great intro to PCB manufacturing, Ars Technica has recently written an architectural study of the P4, and ExtremeTech has a decent look at the South Bridge." The circuit board article is really good - explains it better than the textbooks I've seen.

51 comments

  1. Re:Eh... What??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Different companies probably use different terminology.

  2. Re:Linux' cost... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Change every "Linux" with "Windows in the above post and it will be correct.

  3. Slow news week by AdamInParadise · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Really really slow news week...

    --
    Nobox: Only simple products.
  4. Re:Linux' cost... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    This OK with you?

    If you put Windows in the above post and it will be correct next to some other operating systems out there for a cost comparison, the conclusions are devastating for Windows in the above post and it will be correct.

    Windows in the above post and it will be correct costs not only more because of the frequent updates which require new cdrom's to be bought if you don't have a high speed Internet connection.

    Another factor in Windows in the above post and it will be correct cost is its maintenance. Windows in the above post and it will be correct requires a *lot* of maintenance, work doable only by the relatively few high-paid Windows in the above post and it will be correct administrators that put themselves - of course willingly - at a great place in the market. Windows in the above post and it will be correct seems to be needing maintenance continuously.

    Add to this the cost of loss of data. Windows in the above post and it will be correct' native file system, EXT2FS, is known to lose data like a firehose loses water, when the file system isn't unmounted properly. Other unix file systems are much more tolerant towards unexpected crashes. An example is the FreeBSD file system, which with soft updates enabled, performance-wise blows EXT2FS out of the water, and doesn't have the negative drawback of extreme data loss in case of a system breakdown.

    Factor in also the fact that crashes happen much more often on Windows in the above post and it will be correct than on other unices. On other unices, crashes usually are caused by external sources like power outages. Crashes in Windows in the above post and it will be correct are a regular thing, and nobody seems to know what causes them, internally.

    The steep learning curve compared to about any other operating system out there is a major factor in Windows in the above post and it will be correct' cost. The system is a mix of features from all kinds of unices, but not one of them is implemented right. A Windows in the above post and it will be correct user has to live with badly coded tools which have low performance, mangle data seemingly at random and are not in line with their specification. On top of that a lot of them spit out the most childish and unprofessional messages, indicating that they were created by 14-year olds with too much time, no talent and a bad attitude.

    I can go on and on and on, but the message is clear. In this world, there is no place for Windows in the above post and it will be correct. It's not an option for any one who seeks a professional OS with high performance, scalability, stability, adherence to standards, etc. The best place it should ever reach is the toy store, and even that would be flattering.

  5. PCB Manufacturing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Damn it, I thought it was about PCP Manufufacturing !

    1. Re:PCB Manufacturing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A bitit dyslexicic, areren't we?

  6. Re:hello by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Can you? Yes? Being a dork, will you? Probably not.

    You're welcome.

  7. Beowulf updates? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anyone?

  8. The reason behind these "fluff" stories: by zsazsa · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think Tom even said it himself:

    It's just been a S-L-O-W period in hardware news. The excitement of MP Athlons has subsided, the P4 scene is quiet, the GeForce3 has been out for a while... Honestly, is there anything NEW happening in the hardware world? (Aside from future releases...)

    Ian

    1. Re:The reason behind these "fluff" stories: by MasterOfDisaster · · Score: 1

      I thought heard something about Saintsong's new mini pc but, I could have been dreaming.

      --
      The opinions in this post are ficticious. Any similarity to actual opinions, real or imagined, is purely coincidental.
    2. Re:The reason behind these "fluff" stories: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have no doubt that you will make that car run fast.

  9. Re:"Great time"? by geekoid · · Score: 1, Redundant

    Yeah,but its the fastest thing in the market!!!
    hehe.... for me, the great time was back when you needed to know how to soldier to put a computer together.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  10. "Great time"? by Apotsy · · Score: 4, Funny
    This just happens to be a great time to be a hardware junkie.

    Yeah, unless you'd actually like some competition in the video card market.

    You can buy NVIDIA, or NVIDIA. But hey, there's also NVIDIA! Oh, did I mention NVIDIA?

    1. Re:"Great time"? by David+Ham · · Score: 1
      Yeah. You can buy... nVidia... after all, dontcha know, they bought 3dfx... and uh... ATi, and uh... Matrox... and uh...

      Man. Sure is awful there's only one video card maker around...

      --

      --
      you must amputate to email me
      i read all replies to my comments

    2. Re:"Great time"? by AA0 · · Score: 2, Informative

      only a uninformed person would think Nvidia, Nvidia, Nvidia. The Radeon 8500 was previewed... and it makes the GF3 look like a POS. It has many many features, incredible results, and huge theoritical numbers. The chip isn't finished yet, but the preview at Tom's Hardware is showing good results... and the drivers are still very early. The Radeon 7500 is matching the GF2 pro quite well too, but its pretty cheap.

      In september, when its released... it should be impressive, if ATI gets their proper gpu manufacturing working first. Nvidia doesn't touch them in terms of picture quality either.

      ATI has switched to a unified driver architure with the Radeon series. Their win2k performance is up to theit win9x performance... its looking good for them, seeing how cheap they are compared to Nvidia.

  11. Eh... What??? by Q-Hack! · · Score: 1

    What gives the PCB its green or brown color is the solder mask. This is an insulating and protective coat that protects the thin copper wires and prevents solder from attaching outside the connection points for the components.

    I have been working on PCB's for about 16 years now, and the only time I have heard the term solder mask was when talking about the item you wear on your face to protect your lungs, and then only for people who solder on the assembly line. I do believe the term that the author was looking for was "conformal coating"

    --
    Some days I get the sinking feeling Orwell was an optimist.
    1. Re:Eh... What??? by stevew · · Score: 2

      I've been working on PCB's (and now chips) for over twenty years. I've always called the protective layer that stops the solder from wicking between adjacent pieces of metal a solder mask -I suppose you could call it a conformal coating, but the functional name is most common here in Silicon Valley.

      But then, I don't know much - even though I've even done board layout and routing. ;-)

      To be honest - this was a VERY concise treatise on the whole process. There are things missing about some of the engineering that goes into boards - but those are details you can expect to cover in such a concise document.

      --
      Have you compiled your kernel today??
    2. Re:Eh... What??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      No.....

      Conformal Coating is the clear plastic that is sprayed on the circuit board after it has been stuffed with parts and soldered. The original author was correct with his definition of solder mask.

      Conformal coating is usually used to prevent oxidation.

  12. In The Days Before PC Boards - and Do-It-Yourself! by BigBlockMopar · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Tom's Hardware has a great intro to PCB manufacturing

    That was a great intro, well written, and explaining the basics. Not so basic, however, is attempting to make your own PC boards.

    It's easy once you've got the practice, and you can get all the stuff you need at Radio Shack (or better places).

    Toner transfer is my method of choice. I stuck transparencies, like you'd use in an overhead projector, into my laser printer. I crank up the darkness of the page, so it puts a lot of toner onto the transparency.

    Then, I print my board layout, in mirror image, onto the transparency. Rest it on the blank, clean copper-clad board, and run a hot steam iron over it for a few minutes. With some practice, you'll be able to transfer enough of the toner onto the board that when you etch the blank board, your layout comes through.

    I've even managed to produce double-sided surface-mount boards for prototyping and testing the high frequency response of a radar video processing system using this technique, before we committed to actually having the boards mass-produced.

    Two sheets of transfer sheet, toner side in, aligned very carefully and stapled together, then a nice long pressing.

    He thought I was crazy, but I was able to confirm to my boss, before we shelled out $50,000 for the manufacturing run of PC boards, that the layouts we'd designed worked properly.

    Multilayer boards, like modern computer components use, are impractical for do-it-yourselfers to attempt, but I once built a 4-layer prototype by carefully aligning two double-sided boards, made as above, over a third (blank, no copper) board, and screwing the whole sandwich together with machine screws. Carefully-installed plate-through holes were accomplished with scraps of wire soldered through. It took four tries before I got the alignment right and made the board useful for building the prototype.

    If that sounds complicated, you should see how stuff was built before Westinghouse invented printed circuit boards. Imagine a modern computer built like that. Urk.

    All this and I'm still unemployed. Hit my page for my resume and stuff.

    --
    Fire and Meat. Yummy.
  13. Quickie? by SirDrinksAlot · · Score: 1

    Is this like the old quickies we used to get but no longer?

  14. The P4 by Fett2 · · Score: 1, Redundant

    We build a lot of systems with the P4 at my work, and it runs in testing pretty nice, but that RAMBUS is just bad news......you can read all through Tomshardware for the bad reviews.

    1. Re:The P4 by Billly+Gates · · Score: 2
      Here is some worse news

  15. Re:In The Days Before PC Boards - and Do-It-Yourse by RestiffBard · · Score: 2

    dang it. whenever i have mod points i can never find comments worthy of being modded up. then as soon as they are gone along comes a comment like the above. well if i had some mod points I would have given them to you. simply brill.

    --
    - /* dead coders leave no comments */
  16. eat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    me please thank you grits boy

  17. Speaking of three packs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Hi. I just discovered a new "sex" game. It's called the "threepack" - what you do is fuck a chick up the ass, pussy, and mouth in one night. You have to blow your load for it count as fucking.

    I guess if you've got 2 chicks (and blue balls!) you could go for a sixpack!

    P.S. if the chick sucks your dick after you ram her poop-chute, she's probably a skanky whore, or maybe Hemos in drag.

  18. Making your own PCB by bheilig · · Score: 3, Informative

    I have used Express PCB twice and have been happy with their quality and response time. They have a free CAD PCB design tool available for download. This is great for small, do-it-yourself projects requiring better manufacturing than Radio Shack kits can provide. They create two-sided boards complete with vias.

    What other services are available?

    I have a really great quote, but I'm not going to tell you. -- me

    1. Re:Making your own PCB by David+Ham · · Score: 1

      I was doing some stuff with their services (way back in the day, when I was still using Windows - they don't have a Linux version, or didn't when I was doing it), and I always had fun designing cool circuit boards. I'd do stuff like write my name into them, draw silly little straight-lined pictures, etc. Their prices are pretty reasonable too - they're not dirt cheap, but they're not too bad. Highly recommended.

      --

      --
      you must amputate to email me
      i read all replies to my comments

  19. Re:In The Days Before PC Boards - and Do-It-Yourse by graveyhead · · Score: 2

    Thank you that was amazingly inspirational. I was wondering if this were possible.



    One thing: are the chemicals necessary for the etching readily available for my ambitious DIY project? IANAChemist; how hard is it to find sulphuric acid? Have you got any safety tips for the etching stage?
    --
    std::disclaimer<std::legalese> sig=new std::disclaimer; sig->dump(); delete sig;
  20. Re:Linux' cost... by AA0 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    be warned that Linux requires an IQ above 80 to install, you may run into troubles while installing if you don't meet this minimum hardware recommendation. Windows requires a IQ of 35, which may better suit many people in the real world, but will require a decent IQ to cover the massive security holes in Office, IE, Windows, and anything with a MS logo on it.

    Coming soon to a OS near you, security patches for your integrated CD burning tools !

  21. Re:In The Days Before PC Boards - and Do-It-Yourse by jfunk · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Toner transfer is my method of choice. I stuck transparencies, like you'd use in an overhead projector, into my laser printer. I crank up the darkness of the page, so it puts a lot of toner onto the transparency.
    Then, I print my board layout, in mirror image, onto the transparency. Rest it on the blank, clean copper-clad board, and run a hot steam iron over it for a few minutes. With some practice, you'll be able to transfer enough of the toner onto the board that when you etch the blank board, your layout comes through.


    I've done that before, but I found the results not-so-good. Then again, I was using those special transparencies designed for it.

    Myself, I go a couple of steps further. I get the presensitised boards and print, using an inkjet printer (I found the Epsons *much* better than the HPs for this), on inkjet transparencies. I then create a sandwich of board, transparency, and some heavy glass on top. Expose to light (a cheap-o $20 desk flourescent has done me well) for a bit, drop it into diluted sodium hydroxide for a few seconds (drain cleaner will work in a pinch, but I don't really recommend that), wash, then etch. I've so far ethched only with ferric chloride, but I've been thinking about going ammonium persulfate, which is supposed to be quicker and easier to use, except that you have to heat it.

    After etching, I simply wash with water. I don't bother cleaning off the remaining photoresist (green traces, cool). I simply spray the board with acrylic, drill using a Dremel (get the tiniest bit you can find!), scrape the acrylic off the pads with an X-acto knife, and solder it.

    Yes, I'm one of the freaks that had a 'custom fishtank' made.

    I've found the results to be extremely good. I've made boards with *really* thin traces and they've always came out perfect.

    Of course, I'll have to chase that with some links:



    (that lameness filter gets lamer all the time, arrgh)
  22. Re:Linux' cost... by The+Paradox · · Score: 1

    Don't forget that installing a Linux system correctly generally requires 5 or more attempts, and cannot be done by someone who doesn't have an MSc in Computer Science Hmmm...

    Well, you're either kidding, or totally retarded. :)

    My one previous experience with anything *nix was five minutes trying to access the hard drive of an old terminal server. I gave up and used my old friend 'format C:' very shortly.

    A few months later, still with no knowledge, I installed Red Hat. Took me one attempt once I figured out my CD burner had f*cked up and I needed to just source the ISO images from hda1.

    A joker? Flamebait? Or just someone very, very stupid? Mmmm...a question for the ages. And BTW, no, I don't have a masters in computer science.

    --
    Pain(n): when you're telnetting into a box doing somethin cool, and some luser calls for help with a 'critical error' ad
  23. Re:In The Days Before PC Boards - and Do-It-Yourse by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 2
    How hard is it to find sulphuric acid?

    Go to the cleaning supplies section of the grocery store. I don't remember what the chemical is marketed as but it's probably one of several cemicals used to eat at drain clogs, just read the label for the active ingredients.

  24. Boycot the p4 and Intel! by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1
    For all those interested in p4's, here is the truth about them. I am sure it has nothing to with the intel investment in rambus or anything.

    Rob fucking post the story. This has been submitted like several hundred times by everyone and their brothers.

    Even Microsoft doesn't sue pc makers for offering a competitors product yet intel is doing just that. They may charge for windows more though.

  25. Re:Linux' cost... by Billly+Gates · · Score: 2

    Try SuSE 7.1 and redhat7.1. If you can't install it then I genuinelly feel sorry for you. The install difficulty arguement is an old one that is quite obsolete.

  26. Another cool hardware site by Lord+Nougat · · Score: 1

    http://dansdata.com/

    Dan doesn't seem to run any proper OSses; and the site is kind of disorganised, but there's tons of fun stuff there.

    --
    "I'm not wearing any pants." -Yakko
  27. Solder mask vs. conformal coating by Animats · · Score: 4, Informative
    They're two different things. A solder mask is a (usually green) layer that covers the parts of the board that don't need solder. This allows closer spacing between traces, because the solder mask protects them from solder bridges. Solder masks are for wave-soldered boards with through-hole components; surface mount boards use a different technique.


    A conformal coating is a thick, usually clear, protective layer that goes on after the components are inserted and soldered. It protects the board against water and other environmental hazards. Boards in computers usually don't get a conformal coating, but automotive, marine, and aerospace electronics usually do.
    You can get conformal coatings in spray cans and do it yourself, which can be useful if you're building electronics that has to survive wet environments.

  28. ExtremeTech makes /. look like kindergarten by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ExtremeTech makes /. look like kindergarden -- at recess time. Man, I'm outta here! Dumass!

  29. Re:In The Days Before PC Boards - and Do-It-Yourse by BigBlockMopar · · Score: 2

    dang it. whenever i have mod points i can never find comments worthy of being modded up. then as soon as they are gone along comes a comment like the above. well if i had some mod points I would have given them to you. simply brill.

    Awww, that's so sweet. Thank you.


    --
    Fire and Meat. Yummy.
  30. Your sig [OT] by alienmole · · Score: 2
    Microsoft IIS users? They're probably not even circumcised. Savages.

    I don't know anything about IIS users, but seems to me anyone who cuts off bits of their children's genitals is truly savage...

  31. Natural/Uncircumcised Penis = NOT SAVAGE - BETTER! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I prefer my men with uncircumcised penises - EXCUSE YOU! Nothing savage about it - until my pussy gets a hold of it! ;-p (_0_)