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A large part of the cost of housing in the US these days is due to codes. Yes, that is a big drain on the economy and a big obstacle to housing affordability.

You said it. If only big government would let people who clearly know what they are doing take care of hooking up their own gas lines, stop having so-called inspectors shut down private homes because they "smell funny", not harass honest builders over which materials they use in construction, and allow small busineses to take care of maintenance on their own, then life would be much better.

Think of all the money that could be saved!

And kill hundreds of thousands of people in one go.
Read GP's link, the DOW section provides a perfect example of how much worse corps are than you think.

Bhopal was a pretty large engineering snafu I think., But then again - this is wired, titillate and intrigue but don't educate or involve controversy

*sighs*

Mention bioterrorism and you're guaranteed publicity and funding.

Meanwhile, the real bioterrorists are never going to be bought to justice.

[Dow purchased Union Carbide after Union Carbide killed tens of thousands of Indian people when a chemical plant in Bhopal released methyl isocyanate]

ivan256 asks: What would you have prefered to happen? Somebody has to end up owning that mess.

What a load of crap.

Environment awareness has nothing to do with political regimes.

Capitalist countries (Germany and France) fucked up the Rhine river so badly it didn't have fish in it for more than 30 years. Fish had to be reintroduced by man some years ago. This is no better or worse than what happened in Russia or other communist regimes.

France's industrialized, capitalistic, intensive agriculture is so dependent on nitrates and fertilizers they messed up phreatic reserves of whole regions, making tap water non-drinkable. There are countless examples of land, resource and energy overutilization in capitalist economies.

I would go further and say that the overconsumption model capitalism promotes (and depends on for steady growth) helps making resource-overutilization and pollution even worse, but this is just my uninformed opinion.

Capitalism doesn't even prevent huge accidents from happening:
Does Three Mile Island ring a bell? Okay, this one wasn't too bad. What about Bhopal, India (linkie).
(short version : 5000 died on the spot, 15000 more from mid-long term consequences, and 120 000 still suffer from diseases and disorders related to the accident.)

Look, man, the country that produces 25% of all CO2 on the planet and is most dependent on oil and other non-renewable, polluting energy sources is NOT a communist regime : it's the US. Closely followed by China (BTW do you count China as communist or capitalist?)

In short: environmental awareness has to do with political will, not political regimes.
You could argue that communism does not let the people express their political will, and evidence tends to fit that theory.
but you could also argue that capitalism sees environmental protection as a cost that has to be reduced, and evidence also tends to fit that theory. Capitalist industries constantly tend to cut corners when it comes to environment protection. Example: Texas refineries prefer to illegally release sulfur (sp?) in the atmosphere and pay huge fines, instead of retrofitting their factories with proper filters, because it costs more. But no-one will put higher fines on them because it would be "anticapitalist" to do so.

I have to ask : are you one of those guys who stick Greenpeace bumper stickers on your SUV to feel better about it?

Ok... so let's say that Google in some wierd twist of fate one day ends up buying Microsoft. So then Google would have their hands dirty with all of Microsoft's evil deeds? That is incorrect and you know it.

I'm sorry, but there is no comparison. Microsoft hasn't killed anyone - the Bhopal disaster killed 20,000 people and continues to affect the lives of survivors and the people still living in the area which has still not been fully decontaminated because buck-passing corporations like the one you are apparently defending hold up their hands and say "it's not our problem".

Saddam gassed CIVILIANS, that's terrorism PERIOD END OF STORY.

Ok, first of all, one question mark per sentence will be quite enough.

Secondly: Gassing civilians makes you a terrorist?

Finally: STFU and don't troll me again.

• Here's a list of technical I put together on Bhopal at my site, listed in my sig. These are very deadly chemicals with effects that linger on and on and on and on...you know Union Carbide became the EverReady before Dow bought them...

  New Exportation of Risk: The Case of Bhopal

• New Bhopal Papers V. Ramana Dhara at Emory University is a nice cource of technical papers including health effects, epidemiology, toxicology and respiratory effects.

• New Chemical Accidents, CHEMICAL SAFETY & SECURITY Environmental Health Watch. A comprehensive page of articles on chemical safety, security and implications since the Bhopal tragedy.

• Toxicological Profiles for Key Pollutants in Bhopal

• The Disaster and Its aftermath: The Hiroshima of the Chemical Industry "Indeed those who died may have been the lucky ones......" Ward Morehouse.

• A child is born... Site not recommended for children.

• Growth Patterns Journal of the American Medical Association (pdf format)

• The $195 Million Discrepancy - Where's The Money Gone?

• Bhopal gas tragedy lives on, 20 years later

• Personal Exposure and Long-Term Health Effects in Survivors of the Union Carbide Disaster at Bhopal

• Lessons Learned? Chemical Plant Safety Since Bhopal

• Chemical Process Safety at a Crossroads

• Here's a list of technical I put together on Bhopal at my site, listed in my sig. These are very deadly chemicals with effects that linger on and on and on and on...you know Union Carbide became the EverReady before Dow bought them...

  New Exportation of Risk: The Case of Bhopal

• New Bhopal Papers V. Ramana Dhara at Emory University is a nice cource of technical papers including health effects, epidemiology, toxicology and respiratory effects.

• New Chemical Accidents, CHEMICAL SAFETY & SECURITY Environmental Health Watch. A comprehensive page of articles on chemical safety, security and implications since the Bhopal tragedy.

• Toxicological Profiles for Key Pollutants in Bhopal

• The Disaster and Its aftermath: The Hiroshima of the Chemical Industry "Indeed those who died may have been the lucky ones......" Ward Morehouse.

• A child is born... Site not recommended for children.

• Growth Patterns Journal of the American Medical Association (pdf format)

• The $195 Million Discrepancy - Where's The Money Gone?

• Bhopal gas tragedy lives on, 20 years later

• Personal Exposure and Long-Term Health Effects in Survivors of the Union Carbide Disaster at Bhopal

• Lessons Learned? Chemical Plant Safety Since Bhopal

• Chemical Process Safety at a Crossroads

Friday Dec.3rd marks the 20th anniversary of the tragedy in Bhopal, India. Unfortunately, the Bhopal disaster has never ended. It remains one of the greatest humanitarian catastrophes of the century.

More than half a million people were exposed to the deadly MIC gases on the night of the accident, 120,000 so badly that they've been left with permanent and debilitating health effects. Blindness, extreme difficulty in breathing, and cancer are common after effects of exposure, and gynecological problems are also rampant. Some women are still waiting for their first period at the age of twenty, while others have as many as four or five per month. Brain damage and birth defects are also common. The after effects of gas exposure have extended to the second and third generations, and few of the victims have access to adequate medical treatment.

The people of Bhopal have endured unimaginable pain and suffering, and will continue to do so until the site is cleaned up (Union Carbide simply packed up and left the site as it was) and is now after 20 years, the chemicals are contaminating local water supplies. Students and other organizations are joining together in the struggle for Bhopal, one of the most beautiful areas of India. I have collected over 200 links to information on the Bhopal tragedy including local actions on the 20th anniversary, humor, Dow/Union Carbide statements, activist groups, news, book reviews, petitions, timelines, photos and videos, case studies and technical papers.

Please visit my site at...

20th Anniversary of Bhopal, India tragedy on December 2/3. 1984

Thanks for your time,

also aswell

Here's a previous slashdot story the Yesmen vs. Dow, Dow vs. Parody.

PS this post was rejected two days ago

It actually sounds like the plant was pretty close to being shut-down. This link mentions the plant had ceased active production in the early 80s. I think the true problem is Union Carbide should've done a better job shutting it down, and cleaning up after itself. 6 safety systems failed, mostly because they had fallen into disrepair.

Not only is the economic downturn having an effect on high-tech companies in Scotland but there also seems to be a spate of Health and Safety issues arising. In a similar light do the people of India remember the tragedy of Bhopal as a warning to developing countries with not so stringent heath laws not to be the centre for industries that cannot afford the massive compensation claims of employees in developed countries?

• Apple buys out out SCO (they only have a market cap of about 75 million (surely less by later today ;-)
• then they donate or otherwise nullifies ALL their patents (anti-patents as discussed several years ago here?) to the FSF, or BSD group, or whatever.

You must not
have looked very hard.

The bhopal disater is a well documented, widley known example of a horrible environmental disater.
--

From the note

Things to come. The chemicals that poured from Carbide's plant killed thousands of citizens of Bhopal, wrecked the health of a generation unborn and poisoned the land around the plant, which to this day remains steeped in dangerous poisons. Union Carbide has declared that its connection with Bhopal is finished. If only it were true. Meanwhile the company is presenting itself as a born-again environmental leader.

Over 20,000 died, and up to 150,000 are still sick

If you think this is bad, check out what American comanies do outside America. In 1984 gas leaking from a tank in a Union Carbide factory in Bhopal, India IMMEDIATELY KILLED 8000 people, with the death toll subsequently rising to 16000 over the last 15 years. 40% of the women pregnant at the time of the disaster spontaneously aborted. Many children were born with severe permanent disabilities. Nearly 1/5 of the population of 500,000 are TODAY suffering from a myriad of exposure-related diseases. Chromosomal abberations have also been found in the exposed population, suggesting congenital malformations in the next generation.

Union Carbide settled with the Indian government for $470 million, 1/10 of what Exxon were fined for their pollution of the Alaskan coastline. The chairman of Union Carbide is indicted for culpable homicide, but has absconded and is known to be living in a beach house in Florida.

Source: Bhopal.org, NOT Union Carbide's own site, which is much slicker and comes top of a Google search on union+carbide+bhopal.

This one's even better:
www.bhopal.org

This is the case for example in Africa, where infection rates are astonishing. We are working on a compulsory license application in South Africa. Right now more than half of pregnant women in their 20s are testing positive for HIV. They will all die without access to medicines. What type of government would put the interests of patent owners above the interests of half a generation of mothers?

The US government, and the government of the vast majority of the other industrial countries (actually I don't know any exception).

We should be ashamed when we read things like that (I am, although I knew this before, but I'm ashamed every time I'm reminded to such things). No I'm don't want to justify sep 11 events and I strongly abominate them - and I don't like the urge I feel that it's necessary to assure this in any critical statement nowadays - but we (the "developed" nations) sacrify a lot of lives for out wealth, day to day, year to year.

Go to www.bhopal.org, especially here and here,here or here (I choose one random example here, to add to the drug thingy) and wonder with me why we as western people can yet go to so many countries in the world and be welcomed, while every dark skinned, muslimic looking man in our countries gets looked like he will soon begin to kill people.

The typical theme of critizing the united states for their past politics is far to easy for western citizens. No, we all as a big group of people bear the blame for much of the hatred against us, because of our way of living. We amuse ourselfes on a gigantic pile of nearly world wide misery.

Sorry, this post isn't loaded with facts, sometimes I just get a little depressed and have to rant.

This is the case for example in Africa, where infection rates are astonishing. We are working on a compulsory license application in South Africa. Right now more than half of pregnant women in their 20s are testing positive for HIV. They will all die without access to medicines. What type of government would put the interests of patent owners above the interests of half a generation of mothers?

The US government, and the government of the vast majority of the other industrial countries (actually I don't know any exception).

We should be ashamed when we read things like that (I am, although I knew this before, but I'm ashamed every time I'm reminded to such things). No I'm don't want to justify sep 11 events and I strongly abominate them - and I don't like the urge I feel that it's necessary to assure this in any critical statement nowadays - but we (the "developed" nations) sacrify a lot of lives for out wealth, day to day, year to year.

Go to www.bhopal.org, especially here and here,here or here (I choose one random example here, to add to the drug thingy) and wonder with me why we as western people can yet go to so many countries in the world and be welcomed, while every dark skinned, muslimic looking man in our countries gets looked like he will soon begin to kill people.

The typical theme of critizing the united states for their past politics is far to easy for western citizens. No, we all as a big group of people bear the blame for much of the hatred against us, because of our way of living. We amuse ourselfes on a gigantic pile of nearly world wide misery.

Sorry, this post isn't loaded with facts, sometimes I just get a little depressed and have to rant.

This is the case for example in Africa, where infection rates are astonishing. We are working on a compulsory license application in South Africa. Right now more than half of pregnant women in their 20s are testing positive for HIV. They will all die without access to medicines. What type of government would put the interests of patent owners above the interests of half a generation of mothers?

The US government, and the government of the vast majority of the other industrial countries (actually I don't know any exception).

We should be ashamed when we read things like that (I am, although I knew this before, but I'm ashamed every time I'm reminded to such things). No I'm don't want to justify sep 11 events and I strongly abominate them - and I don't like the urge I feel that it's necessary to assure this in any critical statement nowadays - but we (the "developed" nations) sacrify a lot of lives for out wealth, day to day, year to year.

Go to www.bhopal.org, especially here and here,here or here (I choose one random example here, to add to the drug thingy) and wonder with me why we as western people can yet go to so many countries in the world and be welcomed, while every dark skinned, muslimic looking man in our countries gets looked like he will soon begin to kill people.

The typical theme of critizing the united states for their past politics is far to easy for western citizens. No, we all as a big group of people bear the blame for much of the hatred against us, because of our way of living. We amuse ourselfes on a gigantic pile of nearly world wide misery.

Sorry, this post isn't loaded with facts, sometimes I just get a little depressed and have to rant.