Slashdot Mirror


Ten Technology Disasters

Ant writes "What do a 17th-century Swedish warship, an opulent Chicago theater and a Kansas City hotel "skyway" have in common? All met catastrophic ends and they have important lessons to teach today's innovators."

327 comments

  1. I only hope.... by PepsiProgrammer · · Score: 0, Troll

    I only hope Microsoft is so lucky.

    --
    "The United States has no right, no desire, and no intention to impose our form of government on anyone else." - Bush 05
  2. They forgot about number 11 by SaxMaster · · Score: 3, Funny

    ... Submitting your page to Slashdot, technology disaster number 11 :)

    --
    "Dancing is the vertical expression of a horizontal desire" --Robert Frost
  3. 11th Technology Disaster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    the mess of spaghetti code running slashdot...see today's downtime as exhibit z.

    1. Re:11th Technology Disaster by paddyponchero · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      "the mess of spaghetti code running slashdot...see today's downtime as exhibit z"

      see your brain as exhibit NULL

    2. Re:11th Technology Disaster by paddyponchero · · Score: 1

      Ahoy there fancy pants!

      You in a position to propose/provide an slternative system?

  4. Re:The real list--real world version by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny
    You forgot to squeeze this one into the list somewhere:

    Linux programmers trying to build a usable operating system.

  5. What about Texas City? by PD · · Score: 2
    1. Re:What about Texas City? by reflexreaction · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Doing a quick google search (technology, disaster history), I found this story with this headline
      Twenty-five years ago, the greatest disaster in airline history killed 538 people, in part because of a "heterodyne" radio glitch that still hasn't been fixed.

      It's a good lengthy article. Worth the read
      --

      We had to destroy the sig to save the sig.
    2. Re:What about Texas City? by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 2

      Uh, the Texas City explosion wasn't really a technology problem. More of an industrial-safety issue. Proper labeling, pre-planned procedures, and all that. A very low-tech incident, to be sure.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    3. Re:What about Texas City? by John_Bell_2 · · Score: 1

      Just because it's low tech doesn't mean it's unimportant.

    4. Re:What about Texas City? by AndroidCat · · Score: 1

      It was a good article, but it would have been better if they knew what heterodyne actually is.

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    5. Re:What about Texas City? by ckedge · · Score: 1



      I thought that the Tenerife crash was caused by the arrogant KLM pilot (van Zanten) that refused to listen to his cowed co-pilot?

      I thought that this was the source of a lot of modern intern-crew relationship and discipline training, brought in and implemented by airlines to prevent another such disaster from happening due to screwed up human-interactions.

      I've *never* heard of this radio glitch before. Are you sure it wasn't the "cover story" used by the Dutch to try and divert the blame?

      Or is it some idiotic side-story that the author is trying to pump in this story? It certainly seems so. Just because the radio systems didn't allow for simultaneous communications between both aircraft isn't "the reason" that the disaster happened. CLEARLY everyone would *know* what their communications systems were and were not capable of.

      I declare this story to be misguided. The radio was not the reason for the crash. It might have been a contributing factor. But not responsible.

      This is a common problem with techies (and I am a techie). Believing that "just one more gadget" will make everything all right, or that "gadgest" are the center of the universe.

      Sure, if van Zanten hadn't initiated his takeoff roll without permission, nobody would have died that day. But since when have we left our fate entirely in the hands of one person's judgment?

      Every single day. The gadgets are only there to help them. They can not prevent them from acting like arrogant SOBs, or ignoring their systems. That's why with all systems come procedures. And with all procedures come EVALUATION AND MONITORING of the HUMANs who are responsible for following and acting according to procedures.

      All that being said, they merely chose a bad case to use as an example to get the FAA/airlines to adopt a worthwhile smart piece of technology. It is well known that the FAA is basically inept and incapable of protecting human lives, because they are torn apart by the conflict of interest in "promoting air travel and commerce" as well as enacting rules as recommended by the highly independent NTSC.

    6. Re:What about Texas City? by ckedge · · Score: 1

      Ahem, NTSB, not NTSC.

    7. Re:What about Texas City? by Gordonjcp · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A couple of things about the article:

      Firstly, that's not really what "heterodyne" means. Heterodyning is when you mix two signals to produce another at a different frequency. This is how pretty much all radio receivers work (yes, I know there are other ways. Go in a shop and buy a commercial super-regen radio, and I'll change that sentence). It's not a "glitch", it's more a constant physical property.

      Also, the problem was not directly caused by the radio equipment, but by what was said. Yup, it's an unpopular view to take, but it was just plain human error. No blaming the machines here. Why? Well, it goes like this...

      The day of the accident, there was very heavy fog around Tenerife. Visibility was extremely poor, and it was impossible to see the opposite end of the runway. Another factor was that normally, you only fly off from one end of the runway, depending on wind direction. If the surface winds are calm, it's the tower's call as to which runway is in use (denoted by the heading you're facing when taking off, in 10-degree steps, ie. Runway 25/Runway 07). *Both* runways were in use, so aircraft could line up at both holding points, to help reduce queueing.

      Now, the Pan-Am pilot was first out, so lined up at the takeoff point, and began his takeoff run. There was some confusion about whether or not the KLM aircraft was to taxi from the hold to the takeoff point, due to both the controller and the Dutch pilot having english as a second language. This wouldn't have been a problem for the most part, because even if the KLM had been at the takeoff point, the Pan-Am would have cleared it with plenty room, even though it shouldn't have been on the runway.

      The key is in what the Dutch pilot said - "We are now at takeoff". This is indeed a common phrase, generally meaning that the aircraft is sitting at the takeoff point and awaiting clearance. However, in Dutch, the prefix "at-" is equivalent to the English "-ing" suffix - the pilot had just effectively said "I am now taking off". It's an easy mistake to make if you speak more than one language. Even a language you don't often use creeps into things you say in your first language. Just watch it doesn't have consequences this serious!

    8. Re:What about Texas City? by LinuxHam · · Score: 2

      "We are now at takeoff". This is indeed a common phrase, generally meaning that the aircraft is sitting at the takeoff point and awaiting clearance

      Thanks for the description. This story may be behind why I've never once heard "We're at takeoff" at major airports in many years. I've always heard the tower instruction as "taxi into position and hold" with the instruction repeated by the pilot. I guess because of this incident, they like to stay away from the word "takeoff" unless its an instruction to actually head down the runway. Interesting.

      --
      Intelligent Life on Earth
    9. Re:What about Texas City? by sketerpot · · Score: 1
      One more gadget may not fix a problem, but it may certainly help. It can make the problem less likely to occur. If I were piloting a plane I would want lots of helpful gadgets covering my incompetent butt. (Hey, I don't know how to fly a plane...)

      Still, it takes a great many gadgets to protect people from their own arrogance and incompetence. More than most planes have, although some planes do include some gadgets to protect you. The small Cessna plane doesn't let you go into a stall position, for example.

    10. Re:What about Texas City? by drsoran · · Score: 1

      Just because it's low tech doesn't mean it's unimportant.

      Nobody said it was unimportant, simply offtopic for a post entitled "Ten Technology Disasters". The Texas City explosion happened because of poor planning and horrible placement along the waterfront of refineries.

    11. Re:What about Texas City? by Aceticon · · Score: 2

      Ok - i'm just a non-Dutch learning Dutch, but it seems to me that there is no at- prefix in Dutch. There is a ver- prefix which would more or less match your description.

      Just to make sure i looked in the dictionary and there are about 30 words starting with "at", and none of them seems to use it as a prefix.

      Could any expert in Dutch (out of at least 15 million) please clarify?

    12. Re:What about Texas City? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a native Dutch (actually Flemish) speaker, I can assure you there is no at- prefix in Dutch.

      Maybe what was referred to was the construction "aan het ..." + verb forming the gerundium (e.g. "aan het spelen" = "playing"). This can be abbreviated to "aan 't ...". But to confuse this with "at" + noun ? I dunno. Would be weird even for the Dutch who tend to think they know (or pronounce) English better than they actually do.

    13. Re:What about Texas City? by Gordonjcp · · Score: 2

      Hm, it was just something that was pointed out to me by a (Dutch-speaking) friend of mine. Perhaps it's a regional idiom? I know there's a lot of ambiguous phrases used in the UK, where English usage collides with older languages.

    14. Re:What about Texas City? by mpe · · Score: 2

      Twenty-five years ago, the greatest disaster in airline history killed 538 people, in part because of a "heterodyne" radio glitch that still hasn't been fixed.

      No, the accident happened because an impatient pilot attempted to take off in thick fog whilst another plane was taxiing along the runway.
      The radio issues in no way excuse Jacob Van Zanten from the utterly stupidity of accelerating a 747 down a fog obscured runway without being absolutly sure that no other aircraft was on that runway.

    15. Re:What about Texas City? by JdV!! · · Score: 1
      I guess he was referring to someting like 'aan het opstijgen', which effectively means 'I am taking of'. 'aan het' is not a prefix perse, and means something like 'being in the process of...'


      I do agree with him though that that sort of things slip into 'second languages'. Now living in Canada, and not thinking about speaking english but just doing it, I find myself throwing in 'dutchisms' more then when my english came less easily, because I had to concentrate more. The same probably applies to pilots, who speak english professionally all the time...


      JdV!!

      --
      <Enter any 12-digit prime to continue>

  6. disasters course by EricBoyd · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The engineering undergraduate program at Queens University actually has a disasters course as one of the non-technical electives. Basically, it involves dividing the class up into small teams, each of which then picks an engineering disaster to analyse in great detail. Presentations and written reports are submitted at the end of the semester.

    Supposedly this engenders a greater sense of responsibility into the engineers to be. I think it worked it for me :-)

    Websurfing done Right! StumbleUpon

    --
    augment your senses: http://sensebridge.net/
    1. Re:disasters course by Tumbleweed · · Score: 4, Funny

      > The engineering undergraduate program at Queens University actually
      > has a disasters course as one of the non-technical electives.
      ...
      > Supposedly this engenders a greater sense of responsibility into the
      > engineers to be.

      Perhaps, then, this should be a required class instead of an elective one. *shrug*

  7. From a luddite point of view: by cliffy2000 · · Score: 1

    Well, technology can conceivably be perceived as the root of all evil. I mean, this isn't necessarily how I feel... but technology inherently leads to disaster.
    Nuclear power -> nuclear weapons -> nuclear war.
    Airplanes -> bombing -> death.
    Boats -> armada -> war. death. famine. pestilence.
    See what I mean? What's next bioengineered virii?

    1. Re:From a luddite point of view: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I don't exactly follow your chain of reasoning.
      Shouldn't the first one read
      Reason -> Science -> Nuclear Weapons + Nuclear Power

      And the airplane one is just 'plane' silly (getit' -- I said plane instead of plain... I'm so clever). Airplanes -> bombing -> death doesn't work because people were bombing each other WELL before the invention of the airplane.

    2. Re:From a luddite point of view: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The word is "aeroplane"

    3. Re:From a luddite point of view: by Graspee_Leemoor · · Score: 3, Funny

      Someone's been reading the Age of Empires technology progression chart again...

      graspee

    4. Re:From a luddite point of view: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly.

      If not planes, hot air balloons and zepplins.

      (I can't recall if those two were used for bombings. "Sarge!" "What do ya want, maggot?" "Look!" "Aww, now that's pretty. Wait, what's that whistling sound?")

    5. Re:From a luddite point of view: by Com2Kid · · Score: 1

      Nuclear power -> nuclear weapons -> nuclear war.

      Nuclear Power ---> Radation Therapy ---> Cancer Treatments. (yah yah so man made radation has caused tons of cancer as well, heh.)

      Airplanes -> bombing -> death.

      Airplanes ---> Transport Planes ---> Quick delivery of life saving medical resources.

      Boats -> armada -> war. death. famine. pestilence.

      War came LOOONG before boats. :)

      See what I mean? What's next bioengineered virii?

      Already have those. . . . .

      Just working on the life saving ones now. :)

      (actualy viruses are not the first choice for a biological weapon, bacteria are a lot easier to work with, heh. )

      Not a good troll if it was an attempt though, not likely to get anybody made or upset, just to make'em chuckle and reply with a minor quick correction.

    6. Re:From a luddite point of view: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, people are the root of the evil in your examples. I guess volcanoes and hurricanes and floods don't count

    7. Re:From a luddite point of view: by david+duncan+scott · · Score: 2
      Hot air balloons, probably not -- the possibility of being becalmed directly over your enraged target would be sort of daunting. They were used for artillery spotting during the US Civil War.

      Zeppelins were certainly used as bombers in WWI.

      --

      This next song is very sad. Please clap along. -- Robin Zander

    8. Re:From a luddite point of view: by puckhead · · Score: 1

      I guess volcanoes and hurricanes and floods don't count

      I'm sure Republicans are being blamed in some salon or another.

      --
      Watching Cowboy Bebop in my jammies, eating a bowl of Shreddies.
    9. Re:From a luddite point of view: by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 2

      Good thing war and death weren't around until modern man invented aircraft and nuclear weapons.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    10. Re:From a luddite point of view: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was really painful when man came up with an application for the pointed stick. What a pain in the ass that used to be! Frankly, guns may be more efficient, but I would rather be shot than impaled!

    11. Re:From a luddite point of view: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Airplanes ---> Transport Planes ---> Quick delivery of life saving
      > medical resources

      Which probably wouldn't be needed w/o tech in the
      first place. But you knew that.

    12. Re:From a luddite point of view: by MaxVlast · · Score: 2

      Well...when they look aside and coal companies dig under the mountains and cause the disasters. Or the oil companies spray black stuff all over the otters and moose. It sure isn't the Republicans' fault. Just the counterculture lefties. And the naieve students.

      --
      There should be a moratorium on the use of the apostrophe.
      Max V.
      NeXTMail/MIME Mail welcome
    13. Re:From a luddite point of view: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The thing about opinions is that they are best when supported by facts. As the life expectancy rises and infant mortality drops in industrialized countries one might have a differnet opinion than yours....supported by a fact or two.

  8. Bhopal? by PD · · Score: 2, Redundant
    1. Re:Bhopal? by Hal_9000@!!!@ · · Score: 2
      From the story:

      "In assembling this list of exemplary technological disasters, we've omitted the most familiar--those whose names have entered into the language, like Bhopal, Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, Titanic and Challenger--in favor of some with fresher tales to tell and lessons to impart."

      --
      My email is real.
    2. Re:Bhopal? by jburroug · · Score: 2

      Did you actually read the story? Quoting the second paragraph:

      "In assembling this list of exemplary technological disasters, we've omitted the most familiar--those whose names have entered into the language, like Bhopal, Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, Titanic and Challenger--in favor of some with fresher tales to tell and lessons to impart."

      What a shameless and pathetic attempt at karma whoring...

      --
      "Listen: We are here on Earth to fart around. Don't let anybody tell you any different!" - Kurt Vonnegut
    3. Re:Bhopal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      It's not redundant. There are probably lots of people who haven't heard of Bhopal, and were wondering what it was doing on the list of other things they have heard of.


      For a slightly fictionalized account of the Bhopal disaster, a good book is Set Phasers on Stun: And Other True Tales of Design, Technology, and Human Error by Casey. (It was required reading in the CS professionalism course I had to take in college.)

  9. more than one .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    not the only swedish 17th century warship to have a catastrophic ending...

    1. Re:more than one .. by mpe · · Score: 2

      not the only swedish 17th century warship to have a catastrophic ending...

      Better well known is the 16th century British warship, Mary Rose. Which sank following a refit.

    2. Re:more than one .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Mary Rose sank due to the fact that it was in a big hurry to get out of port and have a crack at the Spanish Armada. The lower gun deck hatches were open as it tried to tack. Refit or not it sank on active duty, possibly due to complete stupidity, but stupidity on a minimal scale to our Swedish friends.

      PS: "NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition"

  10. Concorde? by reaper20 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It took just one more little mishap to make a disaster: a titanium "wear strip" fell off a Continental DC-10 in the path of an Air France Concorde leaving Paris. When the Concorde's tire hit the strip, a chunk of rubber tore off and smashed into the wing, punching a 600-square-centimeter hole in its skin and causing fuel to leak and ignite.

    Disclaimer: I know nothing about airplane safety or testing, but this one set off my common sense alarm.

    So, the tires on Concordes require to be changed alot - a chunk of titanium breaks of of another plane, and hits a tire on a Concorde, causing the accident - anyone else think that "Well gee, I don't think any kind of tire is designed to withstand titanium chunks slamming into them." Considering the condition of some of the commercial jets I've flown in, I'll take my chances with the Concorde. I'm sure there is more to it than just this, I thought it odd though.

    Though not a "disaster" per se - the Navy's dead Windows NT ship is tops for the funniest in my book.

    1. Re:Concorde? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      "Well gee, I don't think any kind of tire is designed to withstand titanium chunks slamming into them."

      I would expect a tire to blow out when hitting something like that chunk of metal. The design issue was that a blowout caused a lot more than the tire to blow out. You need to design expecting that yes, a blowout will occur.

    2. Re:Concorde? by leeward · · Score: 1

      The problem, and the reason that the Concords was grounded, was that a tire failure caused the destruction of the aircraft. It is indeed quite okay for a tire to fail. It happens occasionally, even without a piece of titanium on the runway.

    3. Re:Concorde? by Chump1422 · · Score: 1

      I thought it was the huge hole torn in the fuel line by the titanium chunk that cause the disaster.

    4. Re:Concorde? by iabervon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The titanium strip was just sitting on the runway, having fallen off the other plane. Of course, the plane was presumably going pretty fast at the time, but airplane tires should be able to withstand this sort of thing, or at least fail somewhat more gracefully.

      On the other hand, the failure in this case required 2 failures on the Concorde and bad luck with the fire, as well as hitting something that shouldn't have been there. There's a reason it took as long as it did for a Concorde to crash. I'm not sure exactly why this is in the list: in the other cases, the problem was that the makers were over-confident. The Concorde was supposed to be nearly indestructible, and it turned out that it could be destroyed once in a million times. So they fixed both of the things which contributed to that time. It's not the sort of thing you could say was just waiting to happen, or that you could say they should have found in simulation or testing.

    5. Re:Concorde? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was the debris from the tires.

      The metal strip was lying on the runway. Being run over by tires would not have thrown it up with sufficient velocity to penetrate the wing. At best, it would've been a glancing blow (zero forward velocity and low upward velocity for the strip vs. 150 kts forward velocity and zero upward velocity for the plane).

      When the tires blew, their circular rotation caused the debris to fly up into the wing at their rotational velocity - about 150 knots.

    6. Re:Concorde? by Gumshoe · · Score: 1

      You are right of course, tyre's can't be expected to withstand impacts with titanium shards at high speed. However, the problem wasn't with the tyre's as such, but with the fuel tanks. Fuel tanks on the Concorde used to have very little protection meaning that anything hitting the wing at high velocity could rupture them. In fact, it's a wonder a similar accident hadn't happened before.

      So, although an exploding tyre caused the accident, it was not the problem. Trying to prevent future, similar accidents by changing the type of tyres would be futile (the fuel tank could be ruptured in some other fashion) and woefully misguided. You may as well attempt to prevent DC-10s shedding titatium.

    7. Re:Concorde? by mpe · · Score: 2

      However, the problem wasn't with the tyre's as such, but with the fuel tanks. Fuel tanks on the Concorde used to have very little protection meaning that anything hitting the wing at high velocity could rupture them. In fact, it's a wonder a similar accident hadn't happened before.

      Similar accidents had happened before. Not to the same type of aircraft, not from the same cause. But there had been cases of aircraft wing tanks being punctured on take off, long before. A 737 about 15 years before didn't even manage to get into the air.

    8. Re:Concorde? by LF+Coyote · · Score: 1

      As an aviation enthusiast, I followed this turn of events closely.

      The concorde, while safe for all intents and purposes, has major design flaws. this was the result of not hardening the access panel to the fuel tanks, along with them being in a bad area suseptible to being hit by tire fragments when one sheds, and thirdly, being a "dog" at slow speeds, and needing quite a lot of speed to get airborne means the chances of tire failure were great.

      Also of concern here, was the MTOW (Max Take-off weight) was on the verge of exceeding, but was just under the line.

      We liken AC crashes to stacks of swiss cheese, when the right conditions exist, the holes can line up and stuff slips thru. This happened here.

      First slice - thin skin over wing tanks
      Second slice - high speed needed for rotation (and takeoff)
      Third slice - tire technology barely able to deal with the speeds
      Fourth slice - MTOW used and the AC went father down the runway than it usually would have - that strip of metal would not have been hit if the AC was not close to overloaded.

      The net result was a crash.

      That single crash gave a safe AC bad marks enough to move it substantially up the pole as far as bad AC are concerned.

      For the fact of the actual miles logged per accident rate make it look bad.

      On the inverse, suprisingly, one of the most ratted on models of jets, the Boeing 737, actually has the safest marks, regardless of how ppl feel about its "rudder hardover issues". It logs more pax miles and has more AC flying than any other. Its per mile crash rate is lower than the rest.

      Of course, numbers like this are subjective... I just threw out what is published, make of it what you will.

      --
      -- LF Coyote -- Den Mond interessiert nicht, dass der Kojote heult --
    9. Re:Concorde? by armb · · Score: 2

      > There's a reason it took as long as it did for a Concorde to crash.

      Partly just that there aren't many of them and they don't fly very often compared to some planes - that one accident was enough to take Concorde's fatalities per air-miles flown from perfect to not very good.

      --
      rant
  11. This really is too easy by PD · · Score: 0, Redundant
    1. Re:This really is too easy by MaxVlast · · Score: 1

      That is one of the most ass-ugly websites I've ever seen.

      --
      There should be a moratorium on the use of the apostrophe.
      Max V.
      NeXTMail/MIME Mail welcome
  12. Breaking a few eggs and all that... by Mulletproof · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You can't breed out stupidity or rule out nasty ass-bad luck. This artical seems to infer you can do both.

    --
    You need a FREE iPod Nano
    1. Re:Breaking a few eggs and all that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Maybe there should be an minimum level of intelligence required before having kids. And a minimum level of attractiveness too. We could breed out ugly, stupid people. Wahoo! In 2 generations the world would be full of hotties!

    2. Re:Breaking a few eggs and all that... by Matthaeus · · Score: 2, Funny

      You can't breed out stupidity

      No, but I'm sure we could find a way to make reproduction much less intuitive. If we had the source code, that is.

    3. Re:Breaking a few eggs and all that... by BluBrick · · Score: 2
      You can't breed out stupidity
      Some would agree with you, Others would not.
      --
      Ahh - My eye!
      The doctor said I'm not supposed to get Slashdot in it!
  13. Carry through is important! by FortranDragon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I live near KC and I remember when the skywalks collapsed. As the story unfolded after the tragedy, it became readily apparent that everyone just assumed everyone else was doing what they thought they should be doing or that their shortcuts were fine with everyone else. :-( Communication and checking up on how things are actually progressing versus the plans can be a real matter of life or death.

    Next time as a programmer you bitch about checking up on QA (assuming you are lucky to have a QA department) or on the users, just remember that your mistakes very rarely kill people. You've got it _easy_.

    Also, on a side note, the local KC TV news organizations try hard to prevent people from getting to their archives of what happened. They don't want to present Kansas City in a "bad light". This is also very stupid. If we can't easily learn from our mistakes we are going to make more of them. 'Protecting' KC's reputation just makes Kansas Citians look more retarded than the screwup that was Hyatt Regency Skywalks. :sigh: Yeah, mistakes were made, so let's own up to them and learn something so we don't do it again.

    --
    "All the darkness in the world can not quench the light of one small candle."
    1. Re:Carry through is important! by K8Fan · · Score: 4, Informative
      I live near KC and I remember when the skywalks collapsed. As the story unfolded after the tragedy, it became readily apparent that everyone just assumed everyone else was doing what they thought they should be doing or that their shortcuts were fine with everyone else. :-( Communication and checking up on how things are actually progressing versus the plans can be a real matter of life or death.

      I lived in KC at the time, and I recall that there were more screw-ups than this short summery mentioned. The metal fabricator also changed the design of the beams. As designed, they were to be made of two "U" shaped channels welded together with a seam on the left and right sides of the beam. They didn't have those bits in stock, so they used two shallower "U" shaped pieces and welded them together at the top and bottom of the beam...and then drilled the holes for the threaded rod right through the welds!

      Everyone involved was criminally culpable...and (to my knowledge) went to prison.

      Also, on a side note, the local KC TV news organizations try hard to prevent people from getting to their archives of what happened.

      A good friend of mine was the first emergency physician on the scene at the Hyatt and performed the triage. He was recently interviewed by the BBC for a documentary about the Hyatt. They supplied footage to the BBC, but no...they don't have any reason to supply footage to random people.

      --
      "How perfectly Goddamn delightful it all is, to be sure" Charles Crumb
    2. Re:Carry through is important! by Sanat · · Score: 1

      I worked with a lady named Bonnie who lived in KC. For her Anniversery, her kids saved up money to treat her and her husband to a night out. They were dancing under the skywalk when it let loose and instantly killed them both.

      I had stayed in the hotel several times before and patrons did indeed make the skywalks swing. I don't care what the experts say, having that skywalk swing back and forth had to weaken the material at the points of stress.

      --
      And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make
    3. Re:Carry through is important! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Next time as a programmer you bitch about checking up on QA (assuming you are lucky to have a QA department) or on the users, just remember that your mistakes very rarely kill people. You've got it _easy_."

      You work for Microsoft I take it.

    4. Re:Carry through is important! by stubear · · Score: 3, Interesting
      "Yeah, mistakes were made, so let's own up to them and learn something so we don't do it again."


      By admitting any wrong doing people can open themselves up to enormous lawsuits, that's whay many times teh injured parties or those seeking redress often have to seek the truth on their own with little to no assistance on the accused. Look at Enron and Andersen for a godo example of this.

      The Enron and Andersen officials aren't being unhelpful because they want to be a pain in the ass, they are being inhelpful because they risk jailtime and possibly enormous fines. By not admitting to anything the jobis that much tougher to bring civil and/or criminal charges against them.

      Like it or not, it's unconstitutional to force people to incriminate themselves.
    5. Re:Carry through is important! by K8Fan · · Score: 4, Informative

      Teach me to actually re-read the thing when I preview it. What I meant to say was:

      Everyone involved was criminally culpable...and (to my knowledge) *NOBODY* went to prison.

      --
      "How perfectly Goddamn delightful it all is, to be sure" Charles Crumb
    6. Re:Carry through is important! by FortranDragon · · Score: 1

      "Like it or not, it's unconstitutional to force people to incriminate themselves."

      Very true. However, I wasn't saying that we should set up star (Starr? ;-)) chambers to force people to talk. If I came across that way, my apologies. What I meant was let's not hide the *facts*. The particulars of who is or isn't to blame is/was a matter for the legal system. The facts of the event should be readily available for legitimate researchers, though.

      --
      "All the darkness in the world can not quench the light of one small candle."
    7. Re:Carry through is important! by FortranDragon · · Score: 1

      "A good friend of mine was the first emergency physician on the scene at the Hyatt and performed the triage. He was recently interviewed by the BBC for a documentary about the Hyatt. They supplied footage to the BBC, but no...they don't have any reason to supply footage to random people."

      I didn't mean to indicate that J. Random should be able to walk in and look at the evidence. I was thinking of an article I had read a couple of years ago about a different documentary being done on these types of disasters and the fact that no one wanted to help out the researchers.

      I'm not surprised they cooperated with the BBC because the BBC's reputation is very, very high and they aren't likely to show it widely in the US.

      --
      "All the darkness in the world can not quench the light of one small candle."
    8. Re:Carry through is important! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shove it up your ass Fortrandragon. You watch the x-files too much.

    9. Re:Carry through is important! by K8Fan · · Score: 2
      I'm not surprised they cooperated with the BBC because the BBC's reputation is very, very high and they aren't likely to show it widely in the US.

      I think the concern is this footage, could wind up on "Faces of Death" type compilations. The BBC also has a reputation for holding onto footage of any sort fairly tenatiously - you can't get a copy of a morning chat show out of them. My friend cooporated with this one, but has not generally wanted to talk about it - we've never discussed it. His involvment may have had something to do with the BBC's success, I'm not sure.

      --
      "How perfectly Goddamn delightful it all is, to be sure" Charles Crumb
    10. Re:Carry through is important! by dattaway · · Score: 2

      During layoffs, my dad held a fun job as a dance instructor for Aurther Murray at the time and place. He was fortunate to be 15 feet from the skywalks when they collapsed and described it as very sickening when they fell:

      the water lines for the fire system were also a part of the skywalk: they had enough delivery to flood the floor with a foot of standing water and blood. The smell of the blood was described as intolerable and required frequent trips outside for fresh air.

      Firefighters used anything they could to get people who were still alive and screaming out of the rubble and other bodies that were in the way.

      Needless to say, all high profile engineering projects in Kansas City after the Hyatt disaster had at least the appearance of major overengineering. Just look at Bartle Hall and those ugly looking statues on top of massive looking pylon supports for an example.

    11. Re:Carry through is important! by Broccolist · · Score: 1

      I don't think putting them in prison would be appropriate, anyway. It's not like you need to lock them up to stop them from building more shoddy structures: destruction of their reputation does the trick. Nor would it have any deterrent effect on other engineers. IMHO, this is okay: prisons are crowded enough as it is.

    12. Re:Carry through is important! by K8Fan · · Score: 2

      The construction company that built this tragedy is still in business, and has grown into the biggest one in Kansas City. So much for Adam Smith's "Invisible Hand".

      --
      "How perfectly Goddamn delightful it all is, to be sure" Charles Crumb
  14. Well, I read it, and I can't see any patterns... by vkg · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Seriously: ten catastrophic goofs, but I don't see anything which really ties them together!

    Am I missing something?

    Yeah, sure "Don't cut corners" and "Don't trust management who would like to cut corners", but that's pretty obvious and we all still do it, right?

    There's also some stuff like "Watch when retrofitting parts of an old system with new technology" and "pay attention to boundry conditions", but really I think this is just a laundry list.

    So does anybody know of a good reference work out there which actually has some worthwhile analysis on stuff like this? Didn't Feynmann write something up after Challenger?

  15. What about Banqiao and Shimantan dams by btempleton · · Score: 5, Informative

    A story that claims to be reporting on the greatest tech disasters, in particular the lesser known ones, and it fails to mention Banqiao and Shimantan in 1975?

    I mean, not only was this the greatest technological disaster in human history with 80,000 to 230,000 dead depending on whose numbers you believe, but it also is sufficiently unknown that the author of an article on disasters doesn't appear to know of it!

    --
    Has it been over a year since you last donated to the Electronic Frontier Foundation
    1. Re:What about Banqiao and Shimantan dams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, why not share a few details with us less informed?

    2. Re:What about Banqiao and Shimantan dams by nels_tomlinson · · Score: 5, Informative
      A story that claims to be reporting on the greatest tech disasters, in particular the lesser known ones, and it fails to mention Banqiao and Shimantan in 1975?

      Since the original post mentioned this as if we should be familiar with it, here're the details: A big dam in China failed, in large part because the Communist ideologues over-ruled the hydrologists. Many thousands died, but of course that's all right because the houses of the Party cadre were built on high ground. Click on that link for the fine print.

    3. Re:What about Banqiao and Shimantan dams by Have+Blue · · Score: 2

      The point of this article was, all those disasters were due to people being careless|cheap|stupid|etc and could have been easily prevented (which is not always true). Does that apply to the disaster you mention?

      For that matter, do you have any more information on it? I've never heard of this one either.

    4. Re:What about Banqiao and Shimantan dams by Reziac · · Score: 2

      Interesting article -- and I note the author is a professor of economics with a specialty in cost-benefit analysis. Would seem this disaster is being pointed out as a prime example of the long-term dangers of short-term (or short-sighted) cost-cutting.

      Could apply just as readily to coding, eh?

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    5. Re:What about Banqiao and Shimantan dams by mpe · · Score: 2

      Since the original post mentioned this as if we should be familiar with it, here're [sjsu.edu] the details: A big dam in China failed, in large part because the Communist ideologues over-ruled the hydrologists.

      Maybe it wasn't mentioned because the cause is similar to the Swedish warship. People who knew what they were doing being overruled by government.

  16. Darth Cliffy said so. by Mulletproof · · Score: 1, Troll

    No, let's get this right. Humans inherently lead to disaster, just like Communism would actually work if people weren't ivolved. Technology, like so many other things, is simply a tool.

    --
    You need a FREE iPod Nano
    1. Re:Darth Cliffy said so. by mgblst · · Score: 2

      just like Communism would actually work if people weren't ivolved.

      ...or animals!

    2. Re:Darth Cliffy said so. by Mulletproof · · Score: 1

      Bam! You got me! "involved"

      --
      You need a FREE iPod Nano
    3. Re:Darth Cliffy said so. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People aren't a problem. They can be eliminated if necessary.

  17. Ahh. Good ole Union Carbide. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From the note

    Things to come. The chemicals that poured from Carbide's plant killed thousands of citizens of Bhopal, wrecked the health of a generation unborn and poisoned the land around the plant, which to this day remains steeped in dangerous poisons. Union Carbide has declared that its connection with Bhopal is finished. If only it were true. Meanwhile the company is presenting itself as a born-again environmental leader.

  18. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  19. Number 11... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Microsoft Windows :-)

  20. RISKS - assesment community by DaveWood · · Score: 5, Informative

    No discussion of the topic could be complete without mentioning RISKS. The RISKS Digest has been discussing risk factors associated with technology and engineering (and to some extent generally) on the internet since 1986.

    Every engineer should spend time reading there. Any _good_ engineer should subscribe.

    -David

    1. Re:RISKS - assesment community by efuseekay · · Score: 1

      it seems like slanted towards computer stuff though.

      --
      Mode (3) smart-aleck mode. Press * to return to main menu.
    2. Re:RISKS - assesment community by aussersterne · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      Hmm, I just read the most recent article at your RISKS link in which Linux developers are said to be lesser than "a zillion monkies with C compilers" who can't come up with a Hello, world program and who practice "flag-waving" instead of "sound software engineering".

      The article also equates using linux with stepping to an aeroplane "designed by, say,
      2nd year biology student as a night-time hobby" and slams GNU for "pretty much ignoring the
      need for competence and expertise on the part of software developers".

      Considering the fact that companies full of software developers like, say, oh, IBM, are shipping Linux right now, and considering the fact that a sizable percentage of computer science departments now use Linux for official coursework, and considering the fact that Linux Torvalds is, in fact, a professional software developer...

      I'd say that I won't risk any more of my time reading RISKS.

      --
      STOP . AMERICA . NOW
    3. Re:RISKS - assesment community by wik · · Score: 2

      Just because IBM sells something doesn't mean it's blessed. Take this RISKS story:

      http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/12.44.html#subj7

      The RISKS digest has a lot of good material. Like any journal, mailing list, bulletin site, etc... that allows opinon there are going to be things that you might not agree with. I'll admit that that particular article wasn't one of the highlights of the list. The author does have good points, however. OSS is generally NOT put up to the same design methodology or testing standards as the software running on a Boeing 777. There is a big difference from using a Linux workstation to handin a CS assignment (upon which my life does not depend) and having Linux make sure flaps still work. After all, you aren't going to download and install the latest kernel patch for your flaps between takeoff and landing.

      --
      / \
      \ / ASCII ribbon campaign for peace
      x
      / \
    4. Re:RISKS - assesment community by aussersterne · · Score: 1

      But you miss my point. The article did not say that Linux is a bad risk for 777 flaps when compared against the advantages it brings. That would have been helpful, and if presented along with case study information, would have been a nice risk assessment. Rather, the article just said that Linux is built by 2nd year biology students in their spare time and represents less than a zillion monkeys with 'C' compilers could create.

      My point therefore is not that Linux is great for 777 flaps, but that to simply write an article whose point is 'Linux is a risk [presumably in every situation?], don't use it' and then to call the Linux developers -- especially the talented 'core team' -- a lot of 2nd year biology students... and then to provide no case study information, no specific problems other than an inability to compile source code on Solaris... is not helpful in the least, and tells me nothing about (for example) how Linux might actually behave with 777 flaps, even on an anecdotal level. Is not what I'd call specific and informative material for any professional publication I care to read... Unless you are asserting that the artice's vague implication is in fact correct -- that Linux should probably not be used under any circumstances, whether for 777 flaps or as a mail server or as an instructional tool, because of some vague yet omnipresent level of monkey/biology risk involved in all of these cases and indeed therefore in the general case.

      So -- given that this article is such utter nonsense -- and that they were still willing to publish it, I don't know how inclined I'd be to read any other articles in the list without several shakers of salt at my side.

      --
      STOP . AMERICA . NOW
    5. Re:RISKS - assesment community by kzinti · · Score: 2

      it seems like slanted towards computer stuff though.

      That's probably because it's the ACM Forum On Risks To The Public In Computers And Related Systems. That's ACM, as in Association for Computing Machinery. So, yeah, it's a little computer slanted.

      But the mention of RISKS is appropriate in relation to this article, as computers are (well duh) prevalent components of many currently emerging systems, and thus future technology disasters are increasingly likely to be computer-related failures.

      --Jim

    6. Re:RISKS - assesment community by dvdeug · · Score: 2

      OSS is generally NOT put up to the same design methodology or testing standards as the software running on a Boeing 777

      No non-embedded software is, open-source or not. They slam GNU for "pretty much ignoring the
      need for competence and expertise on the part of software developers", but tests on GNU utilities in 1990, 1995 and 2001 showed them to be more reliable than the equivelent utilities that come with Solaris. I won't praise the quality of all free software, but often ego and sufficent time to get it right beats the heck out of money and short deadlines.

    7. Re:RISKS - assesment community by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      tests on GNU utilities in 1990, 1995 and 2001 showed them to be more reliable than the equivelent utilities that come with Solaris.

      For example, when was the last time you crashed gcc by giving it bad input? When was the last time you crashed a commercial web browser due to bad input? Open source software can be way better than commercial software, but it takes a lot of work by a lot of people.
    8. Re:RISKS - assesment community by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      There are lots of good articles in comp.risks. Try reading a few more and you'll find them. Your position is like saying "I read a Slashdot article, and the first thing I read said 'FIRST POST! W00T!'. All of Slashdot is crap."

    9. Re:RISKS - assesment community by Tony-A · · Score: 2

      There are risks from:
      knowns
      unknowns
      unknown unknowns.

      It's pretty hard to get competence and expertise for the "unk-unk"s.

      Feed a GNU utility something you shouldn't be feeding it and if it barfs the wrong way, fix the utility so it doesn't go ape over small problems.

    10. Re:RISKS - assesment community by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I read a Slashdot article, and the first thing I read said 'FIRST POST! W00T!'. All of Slashdot is crap."

      Yes, your point?

    11. Re:RISKS - assesment community by Felinoid · · Score: 1

      The artical probably is based on pure philosphical arguments. Sound ones.

      Open source uses "many eyes" thery...
      Historicly many untrainned eyes don't know problems when they are looking dirrectly at them.

      Closed source uses experts theroy.. history shows that two good experts can do a wonderful job.

      However any group of experts will deposit garbage instead of quality craftsmenship if permitted to do what every they like.

      Hobbyest breat new ground in technology and quality when under sufficant review.

      It's the review that gives Linux the edge..
      The many eyes..

      Yes Linux programmers could do better...
      But the suppereor to Linux is not Microsoft or Sun... but BSD.. annother free software operating system...

      --
      I don't actually exist.
    12. Re:RISKS - assesment community by DaveWood · · Score: 2

      It's a mailing list. There are plenty of time-wasting posts on it. Like any community, you take the good with the bad. This particular community has been very important over the years. Not sticking with it would be your mistake.

      -David

  21. haven't read it yet by RestiffBard · · Score: 1

    but does it have that bridge on the list. its not a technology disaster list unless its got that bridge that harmonically shook itself to death. footage of the old guy walking across the bucking bridge is just cool as hell.

    --
    - /* dead coders leave no comments */
    1. Re:haven't read it yet by kzinti · · Score: 3

      but does it have that bridge on the list

      You mean the Tacoma Narrows Bridge collapse? Didn't make the list, though it certainly could have. That's still one of my favorites - I always thought of concrete as an inflexible material until I saw that footage.

      I saw another example one time in the 1980's: an NFL football game where the fans at... I think it was Buffalo... were stamping their feet in unison and the upper deck of the stadium was oscillating up and down with an amplitude of a couple of feet (as compared to the stationary points of reference beneath the deck). It was a bit scary when they showed it on TV - I was afraid I was about to see a stadium collapse on live TV. Fortunately, the only thing that collapsed was the Bills, and the fans soon stopped their rowdy and dangerous behavior.

      --Jim

    2. Re:haven't read it yet by ImaLamer · · Score: 2

      Yeah, but a disaster should take some lives don't you think?

      There is one bridge on the list

    3. Re:haven't read it yet by scott1853 · · Score: 2

      A dog died when the Tacoma bridge collapsed. It was in the car the was left on the bridge.

    4. Re:haven't read it yet by autocracy · · Score: 2

      Oh yeah, that bridge was ever something... I remember back in 7th grade when I was in a parade with band. We have a bridge along the route that spans the two cities, and as we hit the bridge, we just broke step. The reason: That many people all putting weight in the same pattern would have made it really hard to stand...

      --
      SIG: HUP
    5. Re:haven't read it yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Yeah but they replaced the dog's legs with robot parts and he went on to fight crime with a time travelling dishwasher.

      Not too bad a life.

    6. Re:haven't read it yet by SkOink · · Score: 1

      Well, the Tacoma-Narrows Bridge collapse was hardly what I'd call a technical disaster. There was no technological, or mechanical failure of the bridge in any way. There was no fault, AFAIK, in it's engineering either. It was destroyed by a freakishly improbable random act of nature. Anyways, on the day it collapsed the winds of the sound just happened to blow at the exact frequency of the natural resonance of the bridge, causing it to resonate until its collapse.

      In theory, this could happen to any bridge in America. Scary stuff, eh?

      --
      ---- I'll take you in a Hunt deathmatch any day.
    7. Re:haven't read it yet by vrt3 · · Score: 2

      In theory, this could happen to any bridge in America. Scary stuff, eh?
      Not really. Engineers have learned from it, and build much more dampening in bridges now. They won't resonate as much anymore.

      --
      This sig under construction. Please check back later.
    8. Re:haven't read it yet by ImaLamer · · Score: 2

      A dog died when the Tacoma bridge collapsed. It was in the car the was left on the bridge.

      So what?

    9. Re:haven't read it yet by kzinti · · Score: 2

      It absolutely was a technical disaster. The bridge's construction presented too much resistance to predictable winds - instead of being designed to allow the wind to pass through. Consultants who were called in to examine the design of the bridge before construction wanted to make significant changes; one wanted to replace the stiffening trusses with a much lighter structure.

      And its collapse was no freak of nature - it was predictable. Even during construction oscillations were noted and made some people questions the structure's stability. After construction, the bridge would sway noticably even during light winds (5 MPH if I remember correctly) and the locals nicknamed the bridge "Galloping Gertie".

      Do a google search on "Tacoma Narrows Bridge collapse" and you'll find all sorts of further information.

      --Jim

  22. Hyatt = Tacoma Narrows by echucker · · Score: 1

    Same principle (harmonics), somewhat larger scale.
    A nice movie can be found here.

    1. Re:Hyatt = Tacoma Narrows by leeward · · Score: 1

      Umm, you might want to try actually reading the article. The Hyatt bridge did not fail due to harmonics.

    2. Re:Hyatt = Tacoma Narrows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Close, but not quite.

      The Hyatt was two skyways using common supports (looking down on them, they look like an X). One bridge was at level four, the other at level two. The two supports that were common to both bridges were supposed to be one piece each. The contractor took a shortcut, making each support two pieces (one from ceiling to lvl4, one from lvl4 to lvl2)

      Since this is not how the engineers designed it, it collapsed under weight, *not* harmonic resonance. Tacomma Narrows (sp?) was harmonic resonance.

    3. Re:Hyatt = Tacoma Narrows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Hyatt bridge collapse wasn't due to harmonics, it was overloading due to a change in the construction of the bridge. The original design was OK, it was the revised/unreviewed design that failed.

  23. K-Boat by Al+Al+Cool+J · · Score: 3, Insightful
    If you want to talk about disasterous naval design flaws, then the British K-Boat probably takes the cake. A WWI steam-powered submarine, the K-Boats suffered from numerous flaws in design and engineering and as a consequence fell victim to many dozens of accidents and mis-haps, including the so-called "Battle of May Island" in which a flotilla of K-Boats was decimated by a string of collisions during night-time fleet training maneuvers. The K-Boats killed many hundreds of their crew, without ever inflicting damage on the enemy.


    See http://www.brisray.co.uk/misc/mind.htm (scroll down) for more info.

    1. Re:K-Boat by RayChuang · · Score: 2

      Another naval design that became a disaster waiting to happen was the Quebec class Soviet submarines built in the early 1950's.

      Imagine a closed-cycle internal combustion engine with a big oxygen tank nearby--one oxygen leak and if a fire breaks out the result would be a horrible disaster. In fact, that's exactly what happened in (I believe) 1956 when a large number of submarine crew was killed by fire onboard such a sub, and there would have been much more deaths had not the captain got the sub surfaced and managed to get a number of crewmen off the sub.

      --
      Raymond in Mountain View, CA
  24. When the corporation goes unregulated... by stefanlasiewski · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is what happens when you have a system that allows the corporation to run amuck.

    The lowest bidder cannot be trusted to create products that are safe.

    In these cases, it is good to still have some government oversight.

    --
    "Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
    1. Re:When the corporation goes unregulated... by reflexreaction · · Score: 1
      Thankfully the goverment no longer opts for the lowest bidder. While cost is a factor it is no longer the deciding factor. The manufacturers ability, reputation, technical designs (if applicable) as well a host of other factors goes into the decision making process. The original reason for choosing the lowest bidder was centered around government corruption surrounding contracts. I think that they have made the correct decision in choosing the best bid and not necessarily the lowest. A good example of this is the Joint Strike fighter which will be used by all military branches. Lockheed Martin took calculated risks to overcome management, design difficulties that ultimately landed it the contract. From the article
      "The Lockheed Martin team is the winner of the Joint Strike Fighter program on the best value basis," US Air Force Secretary James Roche said.
      There is an excellent article about the risks that Lockheed to to win the contract, but I can't find it on the net.
      --

      We had to destroy the sig to save the sig.
    2. Re:When the corporation goes unregulated... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I agree. Without the evil we call "Capitalism", the disaster at Chernobyl would have never occured.

    3. Re:When the corporation goes unregulated... by mlknowle · · Score: 2

      That is quite a typical knee-jerk response.

      "the lowest bidder cannot be trusted to create products that are safe."

      Crap! If the lowest bid is for an unsafe product, then it isn't a bid for the project... If someone accepts a bid for what is essentially something other than the project for which they requested bids (i.e., an unsafe version of the goal) then they are foolish; corporations running amuck have nothing to do with it.

      It's easy to associate low price = low quality, but that simply is too simple. After all, many of the greatest foulups are when a nonlow bid is chosen for 'political' reasons.

    4. Re:When the corporation goes unregulated... by Road · · Score: 1

      i.e. The Big Dig.

    5. Re:When the corporation goes unregulated... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is sarcasm, right?

  25. Re:Well, I read it, and I can't see any patterns.. by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 5, Informative
    So does anybody know of a good reference work out there which actually has some worthwhile analysis on stuff like this? Didn't Feynmann write something up after Challenger?


    Yes, it appeared as an appendix to the Roger's Report. He also discussed it in his autobigraphy either "Surely your joking..." or "What do you care...", I can't remember which. The appendix is a good read, and can be found here:
    http://www.ralentz.com/old/space/feynman-re port.ht ml
    or any of a number of other googleable links.

    --
    I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
  26. They had to forget something, right? by Devil's+BSD · · Score: 1

    Sadly, the most obvious and recent one was not on the list: my basement.

    --
    I'm the Devil the Windows users warned you about.
  27. Lets see ... by smartin · · Score: 1, Funny

    Dos
    Windows 1.x
    Windows 2.x
    Windows 3.x
    Windows 9.x
    Windows Me
    Windows nt
    Windows 2000
    Windows XP

    And the worst technology desaster...

    Microsoft Bob

    --
    The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
    1. Re:Lets see ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow! Hey, that's a real original joke you made!! Nice job!

      jackass..

    2. Re:Lets see ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get a job, hippy.

    3. Re:Lets see ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hippy? Hahhahahah. Hippy? You call him a hippy? Can you come up with a more modern insult which perhaps has the illusion of being based on fact (wich you have none of besides he doesn't like Microsoft)?

      So you know he is alive and doesn't like Microsoft. I am afraid that that criteria fits MANY people...even Microsoft crap users. So I guess they are all hippies, right? And if they aren't hippies, what are they, and what the hell are you supposed to be?

      I am alive, and I hate Microsoft. I use some of there products, but many I despise and wouldn't touch. I must at least use one of there OSes (being W2K) and I believe it is OK, but untill they improve there products significantly and resolve the lingering issues, I will not respect them as a company. Furthermore, they would need to stop many of there unsavory tactics. Then they might have a real customer who is willing to support there product with his money.

      And you fools in the Microsoft worshiping camp who hound these posts about Microsoft FUD think that it is all a lie? Some of the things discussed are true. I hate the foaming Microsoft bashing...it surely doesn't look too good for the other side...but you imbeciles do your part too propagating the Borg image. It is really disgusting and pathetic. But if you are to support Microsoft totally you obviously have issues of confused morality and justice, and if you are to proclaim that any Unix (variants and distant nephews) is bug-free and can never go wrong, you abviously have a problem with reality.
      It is self-defeating. You look like an ass the same, on either side. It should be painfully obvious, therefore I reason that you don't care if your side is anywhere right, just that you fight against the other warcamp. Keeping with this trend, it will not lead to a damned thing. It will be stagnant. Just like the useless Mac/IBM PC fights.

    4. Re:Lets see ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know what I think? You're a damned commie.

    5. Re:Lets see ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *Ahem*

      YHBT.
      YWL.
      HAND.

  28. Forget Ye Not the Therac-25 by ewhac · · Score: 5, Informative

    Even if you never get near embedded systems of this type, you can't call yourself a responsible software engineer until you read and learn from An Investigation of the Therac-25 Accidents.

    Executive Summary: Company introduces next-generation radiation therapy machine, replacing hardware-based overdosage safety interlocks with software-based mechanisms. Software fails. People are killed.

    Schwab

    1. Re:Forget Ye Not the Therac-25 by 56ker · · Score: 2

      Our computer teacher always said there was lots of "safeguards" imposed when software might kill someone - however like all software though there are always bugs. If every time Windows crashed it killed someone - Microsoft would be out of business now!

    2. Re:Forget Ye Not the Therac-25 by msouth · · Score: 2

      Part of what went wrong with the Therac 25 (a big part, I would say), was "the normalization of deviance". When things go wrong often enough you start to consider that the normal condition, and then you have moved from the original safe area with a zone of deviance in which risk is acceptable, to a new "normal", which is actually somewhere away from the original normal, and then the deviations around that become less safe. Lather, rinse, repeat, kill people.

      The "text of speech" link from this page:

      http://web.cuug.ab.ca/~branderr/risk_essay/NDIA/

      is a great exposition on that. He points to Diane Vaughn's concept of "normalization of deviance". Once someone has pointed it out to you it's interesting how often it comes up.

      --
      Liberty uber alles.
  29. Re:Hyatt != Tacoma Narrows by sceptre1067 · · Score: 1

    Read the article... or watch Discovery. It was a poorly designed set of walk ways unable to take the load, not harmonics.

  30. Three Mile Island, Chernobyl. Is Tennessee next? by Phrogger · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "There's also some stuff like "Watch when retrofitting parts of an old system with new technology"

    Tennessee is just about to do something similar with a
    nuclear power plant. This plant has been mothballed since 1985 but they want to bring it back online. Oh yeah, they also want to overclock it by 30%; it was originally designed for 1000 megawatts production but they are going to crank it up to 1300 megawatts.

    The plant had caught fire in 1975, causing a series of problems leading to the shutdown in 1985. Now they want to extend it's orginal 40 year design for another 20 years. A nuclear-safety engineer for the Union of Concerned Scientists figures that a new plant would be safer and cheaper. From an engineering point of view, "It's like trying to dust off an eight-track tape player rather than buying a DVD system..."

    First Three Mile Island. Then Chernobyl. Is Tennessee next?

  31. Re:This is the real list by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh, be nice, the *BSD's aren't infected. Even open sores weenies know that!

  32. Navy's Dead ship by reflexreaction · · Score: 5, Informative
    An article on the NT problem is available here.

    From the article
    The Yorktown lost control of its propulsion system because its computers were unable to divide by the number zero, the memo said. The Yorktown's Standard Monitoring Control System administrator entered zero into the data field for the Remote Data Base Manager program. That caused the database to overflow and crash all LAN consoles and miniature remote terminal units, the memo said.
    And a little bit later in the article
    "If you understand computers, you know that a computer normally is immune to the character of the data it processes," he wrote in the June U.S. Naval Institute's Proceedings Magazine. "Your $2.95 calculator, for example, gives you a zero when you try to divide a number by zero, and does not stop executing the next set of instructions. It seems that the computers on the Yorktown were not designed to tolerate such a simple failure."

    GO ARMY!!!!!!!
    --

    We had to destroy the sig to save the sig.
    1. Re:Navy's Dead ship by ergo98 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So the code threw an exception when it divided by zero: That's a _wanted_ thing (because technically dividing by zero is an error state. You don't want to just skip over something like that when it could be guiding a missile or steering the ship). From everything I've heard about that Navy ship, the fault had absolutely zero to do with "Windows NT", and everything to do with a proprietary application that didn't wrap a non-deterministic calculation in a try/except : Hardly extraordinary. Unfortunate, yes. Fodder for anti-MSitism, hardly.

    2. Re:Navy's Dead ship by sconeu · · Score: 2

      Except that there's no way in hell an APPLICATION should be allowed to crash the OS.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    3. Re:Navy's Dead ship by SteveX · · Score: 2

      I've never seen anyone state that the OS crashed - just that their proprietary application crashed (which would be enough to cripple the ship).

      Or did I miss something?

    4. Re:Navy's Dead ship by sconeu · · Score: 2

      My understanding was that the database crashed, causing a chain reaction on the network. I also seem to recall from the GCN article that there were BSOD's.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    5. Re:Navy's Dead ship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what you are saying is that in the heat of a battle that is is a good and normal thing for any of your subsystems to not be performing as designed even BEFORE the first bit of damage was inflicted to the ship? Yeah, it may have not been TOO bad, but you sure can't say it was a GOOD thing. Especially when the ships systems are being relied opon.

    6. Re:Navy's Dead ship by AHumbleOpinion · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, the original GCN article may have had vague comments on NT's ability to blue screen but these were from different unspecified incidents. In the incident actually described a client app accepted bad input, a server app corrupted it's database, this data was needed by other clients apps that controlled the ship. These later clients were LAN consoles. LAN consoles crashed, not the LAN itself. The client and server apps created the mess, they would have done so regardless of OS. The Chief Engineer on the ship at the time and the developer of the software have both said it was not NT.

      http://www.sciam.com/1998/1198issue/1198techbus2.h tml

      Also, the publisher of the original GCN article backed away from the article a little characterizing some of the content as "early speculation" or something like that.

    7. Re:Navy's Dead ship by rabidcow · · Score: 2

      "Your $2.95 calculator, for example, gives you a zero when you try to divide a number by zero, and does not stop executing the next set of instructions. ..."

      What kind of calculator have they been using? All the ones I've seen give you 'E' and refuse to do anything until you clear it.

    8. Re:Navy's Dead ship by BlueUnderwear · · Score: 2
      Also, the publisher of the original GCN article backed away from the article a little characterizing some of the content as "early speculation" or something like that.

      Well, at least that way the ship was paid for ;-)

      --
      Say no to software patents.
    9. Re:Navy's Dead ship by TheRevenant · · Score: 1

      So the code threw an exception when it divided by zero: That's a _wanted_ thing (because technically dividing by zero is an error state. You don't want to just skip over something like that when it could be guiding a missile or steering the ship).

      This is true, but it should fail _gracefully_. The software should detect that the program wants to divide by zero before it tries to do it and shunt to an appropriate subroutine.

      In any software where ruggedness is a priority, all modules should be designed to respond appropriately to any possible inputs - even ones that they're never supposed to receive...

    10. Re:Navy's Dead ship by gillbates · · Score: 2
      From everything I've heard about that Navy ship, the fault had absolutely zero to do with "Windows NT", and everything to do with a proprietary application that didn't wrap a non-deterministic calculation in a try/except : Hardly extraordinary. Unfortunate, yes. Fodder for anti-MSitism, hardly.

      Yes, but the operating system (Windows NT) should have caught a divide by zero exception, and terminated/restarted the offending application. The operator should have then been able to restart the application and proceed as normal. This bug should not have brought down the entire system!

      --
      The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
    11. Re:Navy's Dead ship by ergo98 · · Score: 1

      The operating system, or rather the processor itself, did catch the divide by zero, and helpfully threw a divide by zero exception/interrupt back to the software: A divide by zero doesn't crash NT, but NT does pass a software exception do your app so depending upon the language and exception handling, what happens is up to you. If this were any of most modern languages, a simple try/except block would let them catch and deal with the error. If, on the other hand, they presumed, as developers often do, that there is no need for that error control because there's no way the code can fault, then all hell can break loose as the error percolates up the app, eventually crashing it at the root. Remember that a divide by zero isn't just something you want to filter out, because the app has to know about it (because the result of the calculation is undefined so it can't just continue along using the result).

    12. Re:Navy's Dead ship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It wasn't an OS, it was Windows NT.

      Technically a N-OS.

    13. Re:Navy's Dead ship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Was the faulty application running on Win NT?
      ^I hardly see where that is relevant.
      Just answer the question.
      ^Why is that relevant? --prosecutor hits him with prod
      ^OUCH. well I guess. -- with the prod again
      ^OUCH. yes YES yes it was NT.
      Should an application that crashes be able to bring
      down the OS that said app is running on?
      ^That can happen to any OS? --- with the prod again twice
      ^OUch OUch. Yes I mean NO. -- with the prod thrice
      ^OUCH OUCH OUCH I mean no. the os should handle
      an application that crashes with ease.
      Thank you. The prosecution rests. Verdict??
      Get a real operating system.

  33. or Halifax. by s20451 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In 1917 collision between two ships in Halifax harbor -- one carrying close to 3000 tons of high explosive -- resulted in an explosion which levelled much of the city and killed 2000 people, in what was one of the largest non-nuclear manmade explosions in history.

    --
    Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
    1. Re:or Halifax. by ca1v1n · · Score: 1

      It should be noted that many newer nuclear powers have yet to detonate a device of that magnitude. Just imagine what a small cargo ship full of heavy water could do...

    2. Re:or Halifax. by Banjonardo · · Score: 1
      Wow. Nice link, I had never heard of that before.

      A-ma-zing. 2000 people: that's the same as 9/11. Not in huge New York, but in Halifax. You gotta wonder how they came through.

      --

      -----

      Score 3? For what? Being wrong, at length? - smirkleton

    3. Re:or Halifax. by cduffy · · Score: 1

      Funny you mention it, there was a cartoon mentioning just that event today. (Link may point to something different later -- but the archives are subscriber-only, so I can't really link there directly).

    4. Re:or Halifax. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Imagine what a fully-laden oil supertanker could do. It says in the article that those things take 5km to stop. If somebody hijacks one and sets it on full speed ahead aiming straight into say San Francisco, how can it be stopped?

      They could put explosives into it to ignite the 180 million gallons of fuel after it crashes. If the Air Force or Navy tries to stop it, all they can do is sink it, and the oil spill would still happen.

      But don't worry, the Government is probably making REAL sure that something like this can't happen. They probably aren't replacing American maritime labor with cheap overseas labor who don't even need a visa to get to the USA. Me, I'm going to go and live in the mountains, far away from any ports and big cities.

    5. Re:or Halifax. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Just imagine what a small cargo ship full of heavy water could do..."

      Absolutely nothing.

    6. Re:or Halifax. by wheany · · Score: 1

      If two small cargo ships full of heavy water crashed into each other, they would leak out a lot of heavy water and some oil.

      If a small cargo ship that was almost full of heavy water and a large amount of explosives, exploded, it would cause a rain of heavy water.

      In short: heavy water wouldn't cause a nuclear explosion, as you seem to imply.

    7. Re:or Halifax. by Beliskner · · Score: 2
      Imagine what a fully-laden oil supertanker could do. It says in the article that those things take 5km to stop. If somebody hijacks one and sets it on full speed ahead aiming straight into say San Francisco, how can it be stopped?

      They could put explosives into it to ignite the 180 million gallons of fuel after it crashes. If the Air Force or Navy tries to stop it, all they can do is sink it, and the oil spill would still happen.
      Dude, crude oil doesn't catch fire easily, nor does it spontanesouly explode. Even if binLaden did his worst with a supertanker, it would just sink the tanker and put some fireballs here and there. But that won't do anything to a bridge or anyone in their cars.

      Being stuck in a burning building with exits blocked is a far cry from a couple of fireballs here and there. Just use your legs and walk away from it.

      --
      A caveman dreams of being us, the incalculable power and riches. We dream of being Q, then what?
    8. Re:or Halifax. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In those days it was also not unheard for hundreds or thousands to die in a city of that size when an epidemic came through. (Such as the influenza of 1918-1919). Accidents and natural disasters can be absolutely devastating. Although for me personally acts of war or terrorism are sometimes more shocking, because of the deliberateness.

    9. Re:or Halifax. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Heavy water is a moderator used to contain nuclear chain reactions so it is the opposite. There is nothing particularly dangerous about heavy water and as a matter of fact there was probably some heavy water underneath their bows.

    10. Re:or Halifax. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If a ship is filled with heavy water, it probably has sunken.

    11. Re:or Halifax. by mpe · · Score: 2

      It should be noted that many newer nuclear powers have yet to detonate a device of that magnitude. Just imagine what a small cargo ship full of heavy water could do...

      Nothing very much at all. Indeed it would be suprising if you don't have duterium in your body right now.

    12. Re:or Halifax. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I don't believe the tavern story. I've never heard it before.


      I work a stones throw from where the explosion occured.

    13. Re:or Halifax. by cduffy · · Score: 1

      I don't believe it either. I don't think the cartoonist believes it himself. As he put it: "Bryant Paul Johnson's Teaching Baby Paranoia is the only non-fiction comic made up entirely of lies!"

    14. Re:or Halifax. by ca1v1n · · Score: 1

      Sorry I was unclear on that. My implication was that if you can fill a ship with whatever explosive you want and sail it into a harbor, you could do a hell of a lot of damage with a boat full of heavy water.

    15. Re:or Halifax. by ca1v1n · · Score: 1

      Einstein's letter to Roosevelt describes a nuclear bombs delivered into a harbor on a ship. I was referring to a deliberate act. Of course, nothing would happen if a ship like that had conventional troubles, but a deliberately detonated nuclear device of that size would take out a small state.

  34. AT&T: missing break statement by mjhans · · Score: 1

    I've been told AT&T's crash was due to a missing "break" in a "case" statement.

    To this day, I don't know why C made passing the default and having to enter "break", rather than adding a "pass" keyword and making break be the default. And of course Java had to follow suit, resulting in a lineage of similar bugs....

    1. Re:AT&T: missing break statement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      where can i download the specification for your new, superior language? and if you're larry wall, then no, your language is NOT superior.

    2. Re:AT&T: missing break statement by mjhans · · Score: 1

      Easy:

      Take a language (C, C++, Java, etc)

      remove "break" statement from said language

      add "pass" statement to said language

      leave the rest alone

      And learn how to chill out

    3. Re:AT&T: missing break statement by mackman · · Score: 2

      Because "case blah:" statements are basically labels. Sticking a label in your code does not modify the flow of the program -- A label should not generate any code. "switch" and "break" control flow. Changing the meaning of a label inside a switch block to mean "goto the end of the block unless preceeded by 'pass'" would be ludicrous.

    4. Re:AT&T: missing break statement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      #define pass break


      DONE!

    5. Re:AT&T: missing break statement by dvdeug · · Score: 2

      Because "case blah:" statements are basically labels.

      Why? Only because the creators of C chose it to be. There are many other languages - pretty much every non-C based descendent of Algol - where case labels are clearly control statements and clearly end the block.

    6. Re:AT&T: missing break statement by mjhans · · Score: 1

      They are "labels" (which, you said, they are only "basically" labels) only as an implementation detail made so C can be fast. Or, more to the point, could be made fast when compiler technology wasn't as good as it is today.

      Case statements are all based on scalar values so switch statements could be collapsed more easily for optimized branch evaluation (lookup tables, alignment tricks for constant-value jumps, etc). Impossible to do with non-scalar values. Note, however, that languages can relax this (e.g. Pascal) with nice results for the programmer.

      Don't take what was done as essentially a shortcut as gospel for makes sense semantically. It's like arguing there's a good point why the system call is "creat" and why "awk" is named like it is.

    7. Re:AT&T: missing break statement by ROBOKATZ · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Once again Pascal is the superior language.. there is no fallthrough in the case statement (removing the possibility of intentional ambiguity or the above situation) and you can use set notation in specifying the different cases, to make up for the lack of ability to specify multiple values to correspond to the same statement.

      Example:

      case ch of
      'A': WriteLN('Choice capital A');
      'B'..'Z', 'a'..'z': WriteLN('Another letter');
      else WriteLN('default case');
      end;

  35. Also a good read by BlackHat · · Score: 1

    Design Paradigms Case histories of error in judgment in engineering Henry Pertoski, Cambridge press 94.

  36. Hypocrisy 101 by Mulletproof · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Wait... People can bash MS all day long without a Troll or an Off-topic mod, but this guy gets a -1? Yeah, I can see the light, and it's leaking out the ass of some reverse biased mofo.

    That's why I took whatshisnames rule of thumb for my own- All off-topic and trolls will be meta-moderated unfair. Suck it up.

    --
    You need a FREE iPod Nano
  37. The Greatest Disaster Ever In History by jsse · · Score: 1
    1. Re:The Greatest Disaster Ever In History by statusbar · · Score: 2

      I remember that. Is the guy with the glasses still alive now?

      --jeff++

      --
      ipv6 is my vpn
  38. No Common Thread...but... by efuseekay · · Score: 5, Interesting

    every engineer has their own stories of how they SNAFU-ed. I have mine (one of the reasons why I wuss-ed out and now do theoretical physics instead :)).

    Usually, the problem is :

    (a) Pushing Envelope without prior analysis (Vasa)
    (b) Not exercising Due Diligence in design (Tacoma Narrows)
    (c) Failure of communication between departments (Mars Climate Orbiter : remember the units SNAFU?)
    (d) Insufficent redundancy design (Iroquis Fire)
    (e) Failure to recognize likely failure modes (Concorde, Titanic)

    and others of course.

    I've once fucked up an expensive spacecraft component because of (c). I worked on the mechanical design of the component housing, some electronics guy worked on the electronics detector sitting inside my housing. We have an innovative design whereby some of my mechanical supports were designed to keep some of his electronics ICs in place without the PCB board. The SNAFU : both of us thought the other is suppose to apply anti-vibration gell (layman's term here, we call it RTD...).

    So the part was fab-ed, electronics put in, and the whole thing was sent to a vibration table for testing..

    Result : a loose IC, clanking around the housing for 2 minutes at about 600Hz. The whole thing was toast.

    --
    Mode (3) smart-aleck mode. Press * to return to main menu.
    1. Re:No Common Thread...but... by sconeu · · Score: 2

      And *THAT* is why you do the test. Imagine if the part hadn't been tested. It's a hell of a lot cheaper to replace/repair a satellite part destroyed in a test lab, as compared to doing it in orbit.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    2. Re:No Common Thread...but... by statusbar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Those are all good points.

      Another problem I have seen was where TWO different bugs mostly functionally cancelled each other out causing new intermittent problems.

      I made a realization regarding strict-type checking languages versus dynamic typed languages.

      Typically, people who are used to java and c++ complain about languages like python - saying that the compiler should catch static type problems at compile time and that languages that do not do this are inherently unsafe.

      Then I realized that ALL of these people must not be running any real tests on their code! If they were running real tests on all your code (every line must be executed in your tests), then these dynamic typing errors would be easily caught ! those would be the easiest bugs to find.

      Too often I have seen C and C++ coders compile their project.... No errors! Ship it! :-)

      Another issue I have been thinking about is the relationship between code reuse and unexpected behaviours. Code reuse (and object class reuse) is fine as long as all of the functionality and limitations of the object/code are known.

      However for more complex class hierarchies I have seen people say '"I'll just inherit from this class publicly and change the public interface to match what I need for this project." - And then they are surprised when other pre-written code interacts funny with it. I'm not saying object-oriented is bad - I'm saying it is so common for programmers to break the basic concepts of OOP.

      I had one manager who was adamant that for any medium sized project there ought to be NO time spent on making the code re-usable. Every line of code should be directly related to specific aspects of the customer's requirements/specification document. At first I thought he was crazy.

      But after I saw some projects expand into massive class hierarchies just for the sake of the illusion of increasing the reusability of the code in other projects, I am starting to side with him a bit more.

      Extreme Programming has at least some very good points about it. ie: don't add features until you know you need them. Otherwise they probably won't be tested properly and won't be a good match for the new use. You can't predict every environment that the code may be reused in. It is harder to do than it sounds.

      So for high reliability systems I think one should have simple non abstracted code that can be measured, prodded, and always predictable. Then you can fashion your unit tests accordingly.

      --jeff++

      P.S.: scary thought/rant for today: How much C++ code do you see that is striving to be exception safe so that memory full errors will be caught properly? How many C++ coders understand that the default linux kernels and libraries will almost NEVER cause malloc() to return 0 and will almost NEVER cause operator new() to throw? Only virtual memory space is allocated. Real memory pages are only allocated as they are being used. Once all physical and swap pages are used, blammo goes your app (and possibly other apps on your system). In semi-critical systems, this is a real problem that is often overlooked.

      Where is the real problem in this case? Part of the problem is that the c++ environment running on the default linux kernel does not conform to the standard.

      The other part of the problem is that it is little known. If it were commonly known, people would be able to design around it (or change the kernel options). So people rely on what the documentation says, instead of properly testing the software limits.

      --
      ipv6 is my vpn
    3. Re:No Common Thread...but... by AndroidCat · · Score: 2

      And you have to put a damned good effort into your tests. Can anyone say Hubble mirror?

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    4. Re:No Common Thread...but... by Cato · · Score: 2

      The Swedish warship, Vasa, also failed due to unrealistic timescales and lack of requirements validation. Many of these technology failures are really process/project management failures, of course.

      I saw the Vasa in its museum the other week in Stockholm - they retrieved the ship from the bottom of the harbour and it is now on display, with very interesting exhibits about how it was built. Worth a visit if you are ever in Stockholm.

    5. Re:No Common Thread...but... by Ed+Avis · · Score: 1

      Part of the appeal of compile-time type checking is quicker feedback on what went wrong. It's certainly much faster to have an error reported by the compiler, go back and fix it and recompile, than to start running your app, run the test cases, wait for the particular test case that exercises the bit of code you just wrote, and find a type error at runtime. Even with a scripting language like Perl of Python you still have a compiler which checks the syntax of the code - would you really want to not find out about syntax errors until that particular line of code actually gets executed? (Like in old versions of Tcl, I think.)

      Type checking is not a substitute for testing but it is handy to get quick feedback on your code.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    6. Re:No Common Thread...but... by Ironpoint · · Score: 2, Interesting



      So some gel is supposed to hold the thing together? I hope it was a vcr or something and not a jumbo jet.

    7. Re:No Common Thread...but... by Beliskner · · Score: 2
      True. No compiler errors -> ship is irresponsible whatever language you use.

      There's no substitute for going over all of your code and going "Yup, yup, yup, yup...." Strict typechecking eliminates one type of error, automatic garbage collection eliminates another type of error (double free and mem leaks). But these assume you know what you're doing. If in Java you keep all objects global, persistent and available then you are in effect disabling the garbage collector. That's why it's always best to start with C++ and move to Java, because then you know that these additional limited safety checks are just that and not "divine intervention - computer takes care of it". Jackasses still won't be able to program in Java because "it puts you in a padded room."

      When a good coder codes, he'll think, "Yeah, the line I've just written should give a compile error, let's just check... <compile>... Error. Yup as I expected. Perl taint should throw an exception at this line... Yup."

      --
      A caveman dreams of being us, the incalculable power and riches. We dream of being Q, then what?
    8. Re:No Common Thread...but... by Ed+Avis · · Score: 1

      It's ironic that the most popular language with taint checking doesn't have any static typing, and all taint checks are done at runtime. Because compile-time taint checking would be really cool and not hard to do.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    9. Re:No Common Thread...but... by Reziac · · Score: 2

      You say, "P.S.: scary thought/rant for today: How much C++ code do you see that is striving to be exception safe so that memory full errors will be caught properly?"

      I've been messing with WinXP. The first install had some 30 crashes listed in the log in its first 6 hours of operation, but I only saw two that had any effect on the desktop. The rest were masked by default (I gather one can turn off the masking, but that's not my point). It does make me wonder what state memory was left in, tho -- did it get cleaned up after each incident or were there cumulative errors? What if this system were running some critical application?? (Is this why I had a helluva time getting desktop settings to "stick"?? Note: a reinstall following a HD failure doesn't have these problems. Was the first HD causing some of the instability? We'll never know.)

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    10. Re:No Common Thread...but... by Beliskner · · Score: 2
      Yeah, with Perl you can say "use strict" but that's crap, shame really. With Perl compile-time stuff isn't so important when you're doing CGI 'cos all inputs will normally be automatically checked when your form POSTs its parameters to it.

      As for using Perl at the command-line I try to keep it as compartmentalised as possible, piping into it then piping out as quick as I can. No point hanging around in Perl for too long otherwise the code will look like damn spaghetti. Just use it for high speed text processing.

      --
      A caveman dreams of being us, the incalculable power and riches. We dream of being Q, then what?
    11. Re:No Common Thread...but... by Ed+Avis · · Score: 1

      I find 'use strict' invaluable for catching common errors statically. Do you mean it doesn't go far enough, or that it's too strict already?

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    12. Re:No Common Thread...but... by Beliskner · · Score: 2
      "use strict" It should do strict typechecking as well. Having to declare some variables isn't my idea of strict. Python's better because it's more difficult to make stupid programming errors. When I first saw "use strict" years ago I thought the command implied typechecking... Boy was I wrong, but in a way that gave me an introduction to the fact that a lot of stuff in Perl is not what it appears to be.

      taint is nice though, I like that.

      --
      A caveman dreams of being us, the incalculable power and riches. We dream of being Q, then what?
    13. Re:No Common Thread...but... by Beliskner · · Score: 2

      typechecking might be due in Perl 6. No doubt Imperial will be one of the first places to upgrade. Is CSG finally installing JDK 1.2 as standard on the Win2k boxes?

      --
      A caveman dreams of being us, the incalculable power and riches. We dream of being Q, then what?
    14. Re:No Common Thread...but... by WNight · · Score: 2

      Actually, the gel was probably to be used to seperate them, so that vibrations weren't transfered directly.

    15. Re:No Common Thread...but... by mpe · · Score: 2

      Another issue I have been thinking about is the relationship between code reuse and unexpected behaviours. Code reuse (and object class reuse) is fine as long as all of the functionality and limitations of the object/code are known.

      Or even changing hardware without checking if parts of the software need changing. As ESA found out the hard, and expensive, way...

    16. Re:No Common Thread...but... by efuseekay · · Score: 1

      not to hold them together, but to absorb vibrational energy.

      it's a spacecraft dammnit! :P

      --
      Mode (3) smart-aleck mode. Press * to return to main menu.
    17. Re:No Common Thread...but... by efuseekay · · Score: 1

      that's right.

      The mantra of a engineer : Test, Test, Test.

      --
      Mode (3) smart-aleck mode. Press * to return to main menu.
    18. Re:No Common Thread...but... by Ironpoint · · Score: 1

      "it's a spacecraft dammnit!"

      Eeek!

      "not to hold them together, but to absorb vibrational energy."

      Well, if they come apart without the gel...

    19. Re:No Common Thread...but... by efuseekay · · Score: 1

      Ok, this calls for a retaliatory strike.

      There are two things to think about when you put something on top of a big honking rocket and blows it up into space. One is direct g, and the other is vibration.

      Direct g is easy to handle : build everything big and make sure all the stresses are channeled onto the base of the s/c.

      Vibration is hard. Each little item on your s/c is a spring. Spring respond to a little tug by bouncing about. Each spring has a favourite frequency, and if it is excited at that freq, it will go bonkers (aka resonates). When that happens, no good will happen to it.

      Now, take apart your computer and look at the innards. See that capacitor? See that diode? Don't they look like a little spring with a mass attached on it? With a little imagination, you can imagine that they are ready to rock and roll everytime you shake it. Like when you put it on top of a rocket and blows it to space.

      So what do you do? You figure out a way to stop the spring from going boing-boing-boing. And the way to do it is to put something soft on it that has a low resonance frequency, so when the your little spring and mass go boing-boing-boing, it transfers the vibration energy into the soft stuff instead. You can think of the soft stuff as a hierachy of every smaller spring and mass, all nicely attached to the big diode-capacitor-spring-mass-thingie. If you take mechanical engineering classes, your professors will insist on calling them "dampeners" and convince you that they are a good thing.

      Jelly would be great. But Jelly mess up your PCB board. Besides, I like Jelly too much that I'll eat them instead.

      --
      Mode (3) smart-aleck mode. Press * to return to main menu.
    20. Re:No Common Thread...but... by Ironpoint · · Score: 1


      Ok, thanks that was interesting.

      So, a Saturn V moon mission might have relied on some gel or something similar to make sure it got back to earth. Well so much for wanting to be an astronaut.

    21. Re:No Common Thread...but... by efuseekay · · Score: 1

      Probably. Though if you think about it, the car you drive depends on that single bolt that holds your crank-case together....

      --
      Mode (3) smart-aleck mode. Press * to return to main menu.
  39. Tacoma Narrows by sconeu · · Score: 2

    I can't believe they didn't put the Tacoma Narrows Bridge on there!

    --
    General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    1. Re:Tacoma Narrows by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      It was a failure, but it wasn't a technology distaster, what, three people died there?

    2. Re:Tacoma Narrows by AndroidCat · · Score: 2

      The two Quebec City bridge collapses would have been good. Hundreds of workmen were killed.

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    3. Re:Tacoma Narrows by btempleton · · Score: 2

      Tacoma Narrows is exactly the sort of disaster he wasn't putting on the list. Just about everybody has seen the film, and in fact it's mostly well known because of the film.

      But in fact, I don't believe anybody was killed or injured, making it trivial compared to many other bridge collapses and disasters. The bridge was new so it didn't even disrupt life that much. It's an an interesting failure and a cool film, but was not a disaster nor is it unknown.

      Things that are much greater omissions include things in this thread, like Halifax, the Chinese dams, Tenerife etc.

      --
      Has it been over a year since you last donated to the Electronic Frontier Foundation
  40. Power failures? by dacarr · · Score: 1
    They cite the new england blackout. That's nothing.

    In August 1996, the Western Intertie - a particular grid of tied wires that supplies the western states with power - apparently overheated, promptly shutting down large parts of eight states.

    More information - although with an environmental bias - can be found at this site here.

    --
    This sig no verb.
    1. Re:Power failures? by RayChuang · · Score: 2

      Another notorious example of power line problems was what happened to Auckland, New Zealand a couple of years ago when during a heat wave they lost all the power transmission lines going into the city.

      --
      Raymond in Mountain View, CA
    2. Re:Power failures? by styrotech · · Score: 1

      That wasn't so much a technological disaster, as a post deregulation not wanting to pay for maintenance disaster.

    3. Re:Power failures? by FireWhenRady · · Score: 1

      I was in high school when the 1965 power blackout occurred. My route home went past a huge power plant that normally has floodlights over its smoke stacks. The evening of the blackout, it was very eery. There was no light anywhere except for that power plant, which was still lit up like a Christmas tree. An island of power in a sea of darkness.

  41. Digiscents by moosesocks · · Score: 2

    Imagine if DigiScents hadn't ran out of money.

    At least the air freshener industry would benefit for the next 20 years as we attempt to de-stink the world

    --
    -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
  42. The World's Ultimate Technological Diaster ??? by really? · · Score: 1

    How is this for a real disaster?

    http://www.tobaccofreedom.org/issues/disasters/d is aster.html
    (watch for the space

    (Before y'all jump on me ... I don't smoke, but I do ride a motorcycle,climb, dive, etc. So, yeah I am a bit of a hypocrite.)

    --

    "Consistency is contrary to nature, contrary to life. The only completely consistent people are the dead." A. Huxley
    1. Re:The World's Ultimate Technological Diaster ??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yup. I'd go along with that, although CFC's come a close second...

  43. Also in the dead-tree magazine by suprax · · Score: 2

    In case anyone is interested this story is in the current issue of the dead-tree edition of the magazine. Really interesting stuff!

  44. Re:Three Mile Island, Chernobyl. Is Tennessee next by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1300 megawatts? That's more than enough to send it back in time. If only we could get it up to 88mph...

  45. Challenger? by Quixote · · Score: 2

    OK, maybe the number of deaths wasn't a record, but the Space Shuttle Challanger disaster should rank up there as a technological disaster (anyone remember Feynman's presentation about the O-rings?)

    1. Re:Challenger? by Restil · · Score: 2

      They mentioned Challenger. They reason they didn't explore it in depth is because its a well known event that has been discussed at great length recently. Same with Titanic. The article chose to focus on events that are not as well known as the more popular events. And they succeeded, since other than the AT&T incident, I wasn't aware of any of them.

      -Restil

      --
      Play with my webcams and lights here
    2. Re:Challenger? by Captain+Nitpick · · Score: 1
      OK, maybe the number of deaths wasn't a record, but the Space Shuttle Challanger disaster should rank up there as a technological disaster (anyone remember Feynman's presentation about the O-rings?)

      Damnit, read the intro.

      In assembling this list of exemplary technological disasters, weÕve omitted the most familiarÑthose whose names have entered into the language, like Bhopal, Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, Titanic and ChallengerÑin favor of some with fresher tales to tell and lessons to impart.

      (Emphasis added)

      --
      But then again, I could be wrong.
    3. Re:Challenger? by fegu · · Score: 1

      The single line of code failure causing the AT&T incident was: lacking a break at the end of a case in a C-style switch.

      --
      "There is no substitute for thinking" - Bjarne Stroustrup
  46. Darth Paddy by Mulletproof · · Score: 1

    Um, Ahoy there, but it's not his job to write good code just like it's not your job to build a car. Call it a hunch, but I'm betting you have an opinion about cars anyway, even though you probably have no inkling how to build one that works.

    (in case you actually can build a car that works, insert an area of expertise you know jack about and the same will still apply)

    Fancy pants.

    --
    You need a FREE iPod Nano
  47. Kites by Mulletproof · · Score: 1

    Heck, the ancient Chinese used to strap people into giant kites as airborne scouts. Of course, landing was a bit of a pickle.

    --
    You need a FREE iPod Nano
  48. Ok.. by Mulletproof · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Notes that moderations are being changed across the board to flamebait/troll no matter who they support. That's a start, I guess.

    --
    You need a FREE iPod Nano
  49. Concorde by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I was at work, and when I walked by a radio I caught something about Concorde. I yelled to my boss "The Concorde crashed I think!". He said. "No way, it can't crash, it's the Concorde."

    For me, an aerospace buff, that crash was as big as the Challenger.

    I remeber when the transcripts from the Concorde crash were released, it was really chilling, thinking about those pilots, knowing something bad is happening, and trying with all thier might to abort to Le Bourget, and that big Delta is stalling and Christian Marty can only say "Too late".

  50. Re:Well, I read it, and I can't see any patterns.. by sconeu · · Score: 2

    It was in "What do you care..."

    --
    General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
  51. Not a /missing/ break statement by himi · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    Rather, a break in the wrong place - trying to break out of the enclosing if(){}, but actually breaking out of the enclosing switch.

    A clear case where a goto would have been more appropriate ;-)

    himi

    --

    My very own DeCSS mirror.
  52. Re: Halifax. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't you mean THE largest non-nuclear manmade explosion? I didn't think there were any bigger booms.

  53. funny? by passion · · Score: 5, Interesting

    the Navy's dead Windows NT ship is tops for the funniest in my book.

    Many psychologists have suggested that the emotion of humor has evolved as expressing relief from danger.

    I find it truly frightening.

    --
    - passion
    1. Re:funny? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sooooo, what you're saying is...you need relief?

      Ten dorra?

  54. APPARITIONALY YOU DIDN'T READ THE ARTICLE by DRAGONWEEZEL · · Score: 1

    As a Slashdot submission would be the .... "Thirteenth Ghost"

    8')

    Dw

    --
    How much is your data worth? Back it up now.
    1. Re:APPARITIONALY YOU DIDN'T READ THE ARTICLE by Snover · · Score: 1

      APPARITIONALY you didn't even spell 'apparently' correctly.

      --

      [insert witty comment here]
  55. They were called 'skyWALKs' for a reason by The+Monster · · Score: 2

    I live in KC, and remember thinking that the guys who designed the skywalks got a bum rap.
    They were designed for people to walk from one side to the other, perhaps to pause and
    check out the view for a few moments before continuing on their way, but not for a huge
    crowd to fill them, swaying in unison in rhythm to the music. I have a great deal of sympathy
    for the people on the lower skywalk and those underneath them both, but the ones on the
    upper skywalk contributed to their own injuries. I never saw any acknowledgment of this
    distinction.

    --

    [100% ISO 646 Compliant]
    SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.

    1. Re:They were called 'skyWALKs' for a reason by BlueUnderwear · · Score: 2
      but not for a huge crowd to fill them, swaying in unison in rhythm to the music

      Read the article. It specifically says that dancing induced resonance was ruled out pretty early as an explanation for the disaster:

      speculation first fixed on the patrons who'd been dancing on them: perhaps their high-stepping had set off a harmonic wave that made the sky bridges buckle and crumble.

      The truth proved more prosaic. The hotel's engineers had originally designed two of the three walkways to hang on common, vertical metal rods. But the metal fabricator took a fatal shortcut, substituting shorter rods hanging from one level to the next.

      --
      Say no to software patents.
    2. Re:They were called 'skyWALKs' for a reason by qeL3-i · · Score: 1

      It seems to me that if you allow people to walk around on something, you should design it to hold at least the load that would be caused if it was totally full of people. One day, it will be full for some reason (like "watching fireworks" for example), and if it's not strong enough it will collapse. I'm not a structural engineer or architect however, so that's just what I would expect from those professionals who design buildings and structures to hold people.

    3. Re:They were called 'skyWALKs' for a reason by mpe · · Score: 2

      I live in KC, and remember thinking that the guys who designed the skywalks got a bum rap. They were designed for people to walk from one side to the other, perhaps to pause and check out the view for a few moments before continuing on their way, but not for a huge crowd to fill them, swaying in unison in rhythm to the music. I have a great deal of sympathy for the people on the lower skywalk and those underneath them both, but the ones on the upper skywalk contributed to their own injuries. I never saw any acknowledgment of this distinction.

      The reason is that what the people were doing was irrelevent. As built the structure couldn't even support it's own weight. More people on it may have made it collapse a bit sooner, but even if no one had ever walked on either walkway it would still have collapsed at some time.

    4. Re:They were called 'skyWALKs' for a reason by mpe · · Score: 2

      It seems to me that if you allow people to walk around on something, you should design it to hold at least the load that would be caused if it was totally full of people.

      The designer may well have done that.
      Problem was that what was built wasn't what had been designed.
      Indeed what was built couldn't even support it's own weight.

  56. or Texas City by nels_tomlinson · · Score: 3, Interesting
    It wasn't just Halifax; ports can be dangerous places. In 1947, there was a huge explosion when a freighter loaded with fertilizer blew up in Texas City, near Galveston. I knew about it because my father's ship left port hours before the explosion. His mother got a letter he posted from there just before the ship left, and she thought he was dead for several months, until she got a letter from the next port of call.

    There are some pictures on this page. It seems that over 600 people died; or at least they recovered that many bodies. There may have been some who simply disappeared. There was a tidal wave which swept 150 feet inland (NOT 150 feet high, but that far away from the beach.). Since the ship was at the dock, it started fires in the town, and at a chemical plant near the docks. It set fire to another ship which was nearby. That ship blew up the next morning with even more force, and did even more damage. There are more pictures here and here, which give some idea of just how big ithe explosions were.

    1. Re:or Texas City by ameoba · · Score: 2

      I have to wonder, what lessons were learned from Texas City? What measures have been taken to ensure a similar disaster doesn't occur again? In light of recent events, I have to wonder if certain unsavory characters wouldn't be interested in a 'recreation' of these events.

      I can see it now... a few men with some guns & a small bomb take a weakly guarded cargo freighter... I mean who could steal enough fertilizer to be worried about, right? The small bomb sets off the fertilizer and, as our friends in Oklahoma City showed us, bad things follow.

      Hrm... Oklahoma City and Texas City were both hit by large fertilizer explosions. Remind me to never move to a city named after a Southern state..

      --
      my sig's at the bottom of the page.
  57. Re:Well, I read it, and I can't see any patterns.. by fiftyfly · · Score: 1

    It was "Waht do you care what other people think". Excellent book - i also have a copy that he voiced. Everyone should be exposed to Feynman - it's so rare to find people so capable who communicate so well. Feynman lives! (should see ghengis blues too ;p )

    --
    "Sanity is not statistical", George Orwell, "1984"
  58. Re:Well, I read it, and I can't see any patterns.. by prizog · · Score: 2

    Even better is Roger Boisjoly's lectures on Challenger. He was the engineer who, the night before launch, told management that it was too cold and that the O-Ring would break.
    You can read his lectures online

  59. Eng. on board and Devel. say it was not NT by AHumbleOpinion · · Score: 4, Insightful

    http://www.sciam.com/1998/1198issue/1198techbus2.h tml

    "Others insist that NT was not the culprit. According to Lieutenant Commander Roderick Fraser, who was the chief engineer on board the ship at the time of the incident, the fault was with certain applications that were developed by CAE Electronics in Leesburg, Va. As Harvey McKelvey, former director of navy programs for CAE, admits, "If you want to put a stick in anybody's eye, it should be in ours." But McKelvey adds that the crash would not have happened if the navy had been using a production version of the CAE software, which he asserts has safeguards to prevent the type of failure that occurred."

  60. The Titanic: When Accountants Ruled the Waves by shking · · Score: 1

    For a great analysis of why the Titanic sank, see Roy Brander's articles

    --
    -- "At Microsoft, quality is job 1.1" -- PC Magazine, Nov. 1994
  61. Re:Well, I read it, and I can't see any patterns.. by Daetrin · · Score: 1

    Shhhh, the Illuminati doesn't want anyone to find out that all the disasters in history are linked by a common cause and were engineered by their Disaster Organization Committee.

    --
    This Space Intentionally Left Blank
  62. Re:Three Mile Island, Chernobyl. Is Tennessee next by Melantha_Bacchae · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Phrogger wrote:

    > First Three Mile Island. Then Chernobyl. Is Tennessee next?

    Sorry, Tennessee would have to get in line. One of the most spectacular examples of stupidity causing a nuclear accident was at a plant in Tokai-mura on September 30th 1999, and it is the greatest nuclear plant accident in Japan's history. Basically, they dumped all the safety precautions and mixed themselves up a batch of acidic nuclear soup in a big steel bucket and stirred. Instant hot fission! You can read the World Nuclear Association's writeup here (it has a nifty table of different levels of nuclear catastrophe that is a must read):

    http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf37print.htm

    The interesting thing is, Toho was filming on location at the Tokai plants for a Godzilla attack in the then upcoming "Godzilla 2000 Millenium". They were probably done with filming by the time the accident actually occured. In December 1999, the movie opened, with Godzilla heading over to attack the plants.

    This wasn't the first one of Toho's monster movies to "come true", only one in a long history. Here are two other famous ones:

    "Gojira" 1984: the Russians have a nuclear accident in the movie (in the original Japanese version, US version makes it a deliberate act). In 1986, the Russians had a real accident: Chernobyl.

    "Mosura 3: King Ghidora Raisu" 1998: the King of Terror (King Ghidora) begins his attack on Tokyo by flying through the twin towers of a skyscraper. Office workers flee while talking on cell phones. The US version ... well there was no US version, except the real life one on September 11th, 2001. Tristar, why was "Rebirth of Mothra 3" never released so we could have been warned as Mothra clearly intended?

    Sonora:"New Godzilla reading. He's moving inward toward Tokai."
    Shinoda: "The nuclear plants, I knew it.
    Sonora: "Afraid so."
    Yuki: "Well, that's just lovely. Another Chernobyl."
    "Godzilla 2000" (US version dialog)

  63. easy list by loconet · · Score: 0, Redundant

    DOS 6.2
    Win 1.0
    Win 3.1
    Win 95
    Win 98
    Win CE
    Win ME
    Win NT
    Win 2k
    Win XP

    --
    [alk]
    1. Re:easy list by marleyboy · · Score: 1

      Corel's linux distro fits into this list too ya know.

      --
      Neutiquam erro
  64. Deadliest structural failure... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe if they had added "until then".

  65. Re:Three Mile Island, Chernobyl. Is Tennessee next by ender81b · · Score: 2

    In an ideal world they would build a new one.. but it would be impossible in todays climate. No new nuclear power plant has been built in the US since the 80's (I believe.. might be a little earlier/later). It causes too much of an uproar - NIMBY. Plus, you get wacky SUV driving soccer moms who complain about how much nuclear plants 'pollute.' Sigh.

  66. I could think of a few more... by Bowie+J.+Poag · · Score: 2



    Saw a rather interesting documentary on the Triangle Shirt Waist Factory fire in New York (I think) near the turn of the century.. Essentially, a sweat shop went up in flames, and the owners had padlocked all the emergency exits. Whoever didnt burn to death plunged to the ground below, diving out of windows.

    A couple people have probably mentioned the Hindenburg. The Hindenburg didnt crash because of sabotage, because of any engineering errors, or even because it was filled with hydrogen. Neither one of those are valid reasons, especially the hydrogen thoery. The hydrogen gas inside the blimp was doped with a substance that smelled like garlic, so the engineers and crew could smell hydrogen leaks if they occured. None were reported. A blimp like the Hindenburg contained pure hydrogen. Pure hydrogen by itself is NOT flammable -- An adequate mix of hydrogen and oxygen inside the ship would have been needed in order for it to ignite, and that mixture wasnt present. Besides, the footage of the accident clearly shows that there was no explosion -- It was only the outer skin that caught fire. The outer skin of the Hindenburg was coated with a combination paint and sealant that was both highly flammable, AND electrically conductive -- The prevailing theory on why the Hindenburg crashed is that the blimp collected so much static electricity during its descent into New Jersey (in a brief window inbetween thunderstorms, even..) that the charge eventually arc'ed, and ignited the outer skin of the craft. The Hindenburg crashed to earth not because of fire, but because of hydrogen loss.....all because of a poorly chosen paintjob, oddly enough..

    Cheers,

    --
    Bowie J. Poag

    1. Re:I could think of a few more... by TACD · · Score: 1

      Flammable? Heck yes! The outer skin was covered in a substance which is almost exactly the same as the stuff they put in SRBs on space shuttles... Oopsy.

      --
      Security through promiscuity is no better than security through obscurity.
  67. Funny tidbit about Vasa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The night before swedes resurfaced the Vasa ship in 1961, some finnish technology university students dived secretly to the ship, inserting a foot-tall Paavo Nurmi statue on top of the pile. (Paavo Nurmi was a legendary finnish long-range runner in the early 20th century.) When the swedes found the statue, it caused sensation in swedish marine archeology, and later even bigger splash in swedish press when they found out to have been fooled by finnish student "hack." :)

    1. Re:Funny tidbit about Vasa by nr · · Score: 1
      Nice prank :-)

      We have the ship in a large museum here in Stockholm, it's on the web too.

      http://www.vasamuseet.se/indexeng.html

  68. Re: Halifax. by hantak · · Score: 1

    I believe Halifax was the largest accidental non-nuclear explosion.

    The largest non-nuclear explosion was near Macao on December 28, 1992. 12,460 tons of TNT were used to blow up a mountain. They were clearing land for an airport.

  69. Re:Well, I read it, and I can't see any patterns.. by crism · · Score: 1
    So does anybody know of a good reference work out there which actually has some worthwhile analysis on stuff like this?

    Check out To Engineer Is Human: The Role of Failure in Successful Design by Henry Petroski (Amazon). It's not a reference work per se; it's written for the layman, but it's very good.

  70. better link (all in one page). by andi75 · · Score: 1
    I wish the homepage would like to the printable version of the article instead
    - Andreas

    Signatures are a waste of bandwith

  71. Tenerife (was What about Texas City?) by mikeb · · Score: 1

    The final accident report found the Dutch Pilot entirely to blame. Ten seconds with google will find plenty of links, but if you are too lazy (grin), here's a short summary.

  72. Shouldn't they've been called Stairways to Heaven? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... at least, that's what they ended up being for 114 merry partygoers!

  73. Re:Well, I read it, and I can't see any patterns.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Illuminati don't CARE if people hear the truth, because they won't believe it. That's all part of those merry funsters' game. Like George Bush proclaiming a "New World Order". Like the eye-in-a-pyramid on the US $1 note. Like the occult layout of Washington DC. They act blatantly knowing that people don't want to hear the truth. That's why they're going to get what they want. They already have enough power to be unstoppable. They play both sides in every conflict. They want to enslave us all.

  74. Well mod me down and call me karmawhore by wheany · · Score: 3, Funny

    From the article:The result was the most lavishly appointed and heavily armed warship of its day, but one too long and too tall for its beam and ballast--a matchless array of features on an unstable platform.

    That's like Windows, right?

    1. Re:Well mod me down and call me karmawhore by t_allardyce · · Score: 3, Funny

      No, windows would be a ship of the same size with _one_ cannon that fired non-standard sized balls, sometimes fast enough to do damage, but more often than not, so slow that they would just plop out. It would still be unstable, but they wouldn't even be able to get 3 sailors on board before it started rocking. It would be launched anyway and even though it would sink after 5 minutes, 500 more ships of the same specs. would be built

      --
      This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
  75. 12th & 13th technology disasters: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    12: Hitting submit accidentally while trying to write a witty response to a /.article
    13: Jar Jar Binks
    (14: realising that your post isn't really that witty, but will be viewable on the web for ever more)

  76. MS Outlook by captaineo · · Score: 2, Flamebait

    Speaking of technology disasters- What about Microsoft Outlook, whose many unfixed security flaws have brought about waves of email-borne virii, costing millions of dollars in lost data and productivity?

    1. Re:MS Outlook by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes but because MS is a reputable vendor I can
      sue them for damages. Just read the eula.its all there
      --or
      Yes but thats better than linux. I mean who are you
      going to sue, a 17 year old punk in Iowa.
      --or
      Yes but at least Outlook is easy to use. Not to
      mention damned intuitive.
      --or
      Yes but at least I don't have to go near a command
      prompt. What a pain in the butt that would be.

  77. Insert gratuitous joke here: by Darth_brooks · · Score: 1
    From the report on the vasa:


    a matchless array of features on an unstable platform.


    Someone else make the joke, I'm feeling lazy

    --
    There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
  78. more info about vasa by thorgil · · Score: 1

    Here is a link to the vasa museum
    http://www.vasamuseet.se/indexeng.html

    The most interesting thing about vasa is biological.

    Due to the lack of shipworm in the baltic sea and the anaerobic environment where the ship sunk, the Vasa was very well preserved after 350 years in the sea.

    As the bronze cannons were very valuable, most of them where salvaged during the years after the ship sunk.

    --
    Warning: This sig contains a small bug. ==> *
  79. Sounds Like ... by Jeff+Hornby · · Score: 1

    many of the factors that make them go spectacularly wrong are surprisingly consistent: impatient clients who won't hear "no"; shady or lazy designers who cut corners; excess confidence in glamorous new technologies; and, of course, good old-fashioned hubris.

    This sounds like every software project I've ever worked on

    --
    Why doesn't Slashdot ever get slashdotted?
  80. air france didnt help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    if it had been a BA concorde it might have been quite a different incident. There had been previous tyre blowouts which gave concern about the routing of fuel lines and hydraulics around the wheel bay area. BA had the lines in their planes rerouted to lessen the chance of them being damaged, air france ignored the warnings and did nothing. It still wouldnt have stopped the fire but it could have prevented the loss of control authority and might have been enough to let them land at le Bourget. The fact that michelin modified the tyre without recertifying didnt help (the modifications they made didnt legaly require recertification i believe), the newer version stayed in much larger pieces after disintegrating than the original, and hence did substantially more damage to the wing. (BA used dunlop tyres i belive, so this is another point where it may have been different if it had been a BA aircraft)

  81. Vasa by Observer · · Score: 2
    The Vasa - that's the Swedish warship that sank at the start of its maiden voyage - was raised from the seabed in the 1961 and is now on display in a museum in Stockholm. I saw it in the late 1970s when the fragile timber was still being sprayed with a solution of polyethelenglycol to give it enough strength to bear its own weight as it was gradually dried out.

    It's now a massive visitor attraction. However, that's not without its own unfortunate side effects: I heard a report a few week back on the BBC that the wood is now rotting again in places due to the humidy in the air from the visitors' breath, perspiration, damp outer clothes on rainy days, etc.

    More information at the Vasa Museum .

  82. Not AT&T's fault by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The article attributes the AT&T grid failure to AT&T's own software, but wasn't this software actually written by DSC (now Alcatel), and therefore wasn't DSC responsible to do code review and test?

    The part saying that AT&T shouldn't have installed the new software in the backup network may be true - but only if it hadn't been too long before the bug occurred. Some software bugs do not show up for years. How long should AT&T have waited before decided that the software was safe?

    Most of the blame should go to DSC for insufficient code review and test for such a critical piece of software.

  83. Because... by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 2

    ...there would be no customers!

    1. Re:Because... by 56ker · · Score: 2

      I was thinking more of Microsoft would be out of business because of the lawsuits brought by relatives - but yes word of mouth would spread to the extent that they would have no customers first.

    2. Re:Because... by inburito · · Score: 2

      You misunderstood.
      Considering how often windows crashes, he meant all the customers would be dead.

  84. the Coast Guard had a funny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    The Coast Guard tender Mesquite was plucking buoys one fall evening when it got to close to shore and the waves threw it up on the rocks. It was a big honkin' boat and it wound up on its side completely out of the water.


    Nobody could quite come up with an explanation of how exactly this happened. The cap'n was snoozing below decks, and the only conscious officer was some affirmative action promotion whose college degree was an MRS.

  85. massive class hierarchies by Tony-A · · Score: 2

    Analogies are dangerous, but consider a tail light assembly. Other than something like a bumber clamp-on type of thingee, you have almost no chance of being able to reuse it from one model of car to another. Your manager is right in no time being spent on making the code reuseable. It is worthwhile making the code a bit more general than necessary, but the crux is in making the code match the edge conditions that exist in the customer's requirements. That makes little subtle distinctions that do NOT transfer well.

    1. Re:massive class hierarchies by SEE · · Score: 2

      Actually, one of the things GM fairly recently did that cut costs quite a bit was setting up both its minivans and commercial vans to use the same tail light assemblies.

  86. Chemistry by lelitsch · · Score: 1

    Most of the problems mentioned here are related to mechanical engineering. Chemical engineering actually has a equally, or even more impressive, track record of screw ups. My persoal favorite were the guys at BASF who used explosives to break up 4500 tons of caked Mischsalz (ammonium nitrate+ammonium sulfate) with explosives, blowing up the plan and the surrounding suburb, and killing 500 people in the process.

  87. Tacoma Narrows != Harmonics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They just built it too light and flimsy.

  88. The Swedish ship was recovered... by stain+ain · · Score: 2

    and now makes for a good museum in Stockholm, where you can learn the history and see the warship Vasa.

  89. Inspired hundred-ton test by ColGraff · · Score: 2

    I could be wrong, but I seem to recall from my physics paper that this explosion provided the inspiration for the Manhatten Project's Hundred-Ton test (of conventional explosives), designed to help figure out what a multi-kiloton explosion would be like.

    --
    I'm the stranger...posting to /.
  90. RISKS is good for facts... by Nindalf · · Score: 2

    You just have to ignore all the opinion that goes along with it and form your own conclusion.

    I mean, did you know about the Solaris problems? I didn't, and I find it interesting. I mean sure, every UNIX deviates a little, and causes some compatibility problems, but I have really been bothered by the attitude displayed in some of the GNU documentation. For example, I remember reading about the gcc extensions, and how you should go ahead and use them because everybody should be using gcc.

    RISKS is a big pile of random technology problems, accompanied by off-the-cuff commentary usually by non-experts (who don't seem to shout "I am not an expert!" as typically as most discussion groups). It makes a great jumping-off point for case studies for the continuous education any good tech needs, but a lousy source of pre-packaged judgements.

    I mean, they let practically anyone post, you expect a zillion monkeys at keyboards to come up with a professional journal of technology risks?

    1. Re:RISKS is good for facts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Intel Compiler now supports almost all GCC extensions. So, thats two down...

  91. Dividing by Zero - Authoritative Answer by gewalker · · Score: 1

    Fire up Windows Calculator and dividing by zero yields:

    A) 0
    B) E
    C) BSOD
    D) 42
    E) Domain Error
    F) Error Positive Infinity
    G) Undefined
    H) None of the above

    The correct answer (according to my test on Win98) was F, though I think G would be more accurate.

    If the fine engineers at MS could avoid a BSOD in the calc application, it's fair to assume that division by zero is not a characteristic problem of Windows.

    A GPF (or whaterver it is called) means Windows is doing it job as an O/S.

    A BSOD means one of 2 things:
    1) Windows failed to do its job
    2) Windows is doing its job, protecting you from further damage due to a buggy device driver.

    In practice, you as the consumer are pretty much hosed in any of the above cases.

    Windows also fails to do it job in other ways, even on Win2K (usually considered the most stable), I've seen lost network connections, lost removable drive connections, Messed up screen font's, blank Icons, resource leaks (in the O/S),

    Windows (including Solitaire) is the probably the greatest technological disaster of all time when measured in terms of dollars wasted.

  92. What About /. by Lethyos · · Score: 3, Funny

    Does Slashdot fall into this so-called "technology failures/disasters" category?

    --
    Why bother.
  93. Crazy guys give good advice. by Nindalf · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I had one manager who was adamant that for any medium sized project there ought to be NO time spent on making the code re-usable. Every line of code should be directly related to specific aspects of the customer's requirements/specification document. At first I thought he was crazy.

    I had a guy who thought dynamic memory allocation should be avoided at all costs, and you should never use a data structure more complex than an array.

    I still think he's crazy, but now I see his point. I mean, he was terrible for global variables and giant functions, but his programs never leaked memory and very rarely wrote to bad pointers. If you don't need dynamic memory allocation, you shouldn't use it, and when you do need it, you should only have one malloc and one free (or equivalent) for every dynamic data structure. Often, you only need one or two, even in a relatively large and featureful program. That way, I can write a good page of error handling code and comments on memory consumption for each dynamic memory access, and it saves me a lot of grief.

    I don't like reusing code, either, unless you can make a good case for it being a part of the underlying system. I like the analogy of an architect stapling someone else's blueprint of a fully-equipped foundry and machine shop to his design because the inhabitants will need a screwdriver. Reuse means bloat, and bloat is bad. Every extra line you add is another place for a bug to hide.

  94. Re:Slashdot sucks!!(lufthgisnI ,9999 :erocS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have no idea *what* it does. I seems to do nothing in Moz or Netscape 4.x

    Anyone want to explain?

  95. For further reading by Webmoth · · Score: 2

    I'd recommend this book on failure analysis, written in layman's terms using case studies:

    Why Buildings Fall Down: How Structures Fail; Matthys Levy, et al.; W.W. Norton ISBN: 039331152X; Reprint edition (1994); $14.95

    There is also a companion book which I have not read (because I just found out about it when searching amazon.com):

    Why Buildings Stand Up: The Strength of Architecture; W.W. Norton ISBN: 0393306763; Reissue edition (February 18, 2002); $14.95 ($10.47 at amazon)

    --
    Give me my freedom, and I'll take care of my own security, thank you.
  96. Ariane 5 by phague · · Score: 1

    How about that for a major engineering disaster? A rocket that was destroyed (actually, blew itself up deliberatly when its computer realised it was breaking up) because of an overflow error.

    The engineering reason though, were that a component had been reused from Ariane 4 incorrectly, and the testing was inadequate - both of which seem to be common themes here.

    Why do people keep making the same mistakes?

    1. Re:Ariane 5 by cant_get_a_good_nick · · Score: 1

      In depth expl. of Ariane 5 sent to me.

      Incredible software quality story - from a recent New York Times.

      It took the European Space Agency 10 years and $7 billion to produce
      Ariane 5, a giant rocket capable of hurling a pair of three-ton satellites
      into orbit with each launch and intended to give Europe overwhelming
      supremacy in the commercial space business.

      All it took to explode that rocket less than a minute into its maiden
      voyage last June, scattering fiery rubble across the mangrove swamps of
      French Guiana, was a small computer program trying to stuff a 64-bit
      number into a 16-bit space.

      One bug, one crash. Of all the careless lines of code recorded in the
      annals of computer science, this one may stand as the most devastatingly
      efficient. From interviews with rocketry experts and an analysis prepared
      for the space agency, a clear path from an arithmetic error to total
      destruction emerges.

      To play the tape backward:

      At 39 seconds after launch, as the rocket reached an altitude of two and a
      half miles, a self-destruct mechanism finished off Ariane 5, along with
      its payload of four expensive and uninsured scientific satellites.
      Self-destruction was triggered automatically because aerodynamic forces
      were ripping the boosters from the rocket.

      This disintegration had begun instantaneously when the spacecraft swerved
      off course under the pressure of the three powerful nozzles in its
      boosters and main engine. The rocket was making an abrupt course
      correction that was not needed, compensating for a wrong turn that had not
      taken place.

      Steering was controlled by the on-board computer, which mistakenly thought
      the rocket needed a course change because of numbers coming from the
      inertial guidance system. That device uses gyroscopes and accelerometers
      to track motion. The numbers looked like flight data -- bizarre and
      impossible flight data -- but were actually a diagnostic error message.
      The guidance system had in fact shut down. This shutdown occurred 36.7
      seconds after launch, when the guidance system's own computer tried to
      convert one piece of data -- the sideways velocity of the rocket -- from a
      64-bit format to a 16-bit format. The number was too big, and an overflow
      error resulted.

      When the guidance system shut down, it passed control to an identical,
      redundant unit, which was there to provide backup in case of just such a
      failure. But the second unit had failed in the identical manner a few
      milliseconds before. It was running the same software.

      This bug belongs to a species that has existed since the first computer
      programmers realized they could store numbers as sequences of bits, atoms
      of data, ones and zeroes: 1001010001101001. . . . A bug like this might
      crash a spreadsheet or word processor on a bad day.

      Ordinarily, though, when a program converts data from one form to another,
      the conversions are protected by extra lines of code that watch for errors
      and recover gracefully. Indeed, many of the data conversions in the
      guidance system's programming included such protection.

      But in this case, the programmers had decided that this particular
      velocity figure would never be large enough to cause trouble. After all,
      it never had been before. Unluckily, Ariane 5 was a faster rocket than
      Ariane 4. One extra absurdity: the calculation containing the bug, which
      shut down the guidance system, which confused the on-board computer, which
      forced the rocket off course, actually served no purpose once the rocket
      was in the air. Its only function was to align the system before launch.
      So it should have been turned off. But engineers chose long ago, in an
      earlier version of the Ariane, to leave this function running for the
      first 40 seconds of flight -- a "special feature" meant to make it easy to
      restart the system in the event of a brief hold in the countdown.

      The Europeans hope to launch a new Ariane 5 next spring, this time with a
      newly designated "software architect" who will oversee a process of more
      intensive and, they hope, realistic ground simulation.

      Simulation is the great hope of software debuggers everywhere, though it
      can never anticipate every feature of real life. "Very tiny details can
      have terrible consequences," says Jacques Durand, head of the project, in
      Paris. "That's not surprising, especially in a complex software system
      such as this is."

      These days, we have complex software systems everywhere. We have them in
      our dishwashers and in our wristwatches, though they're not quite so
      mission-critical. We have computers in our cars -- from 15 to 50
      microprocessors, depending how you count: in the engine, the transmission,
      the suspensions, the steering, the brakes and every other major subsystem.
      Each runs its own software, thoroughly tested, simulated and debugged, no
      doubt.

      Bill Powers, vice president for research at Ford, says that cars'
      computing power is increasingly devoted not just to actual control but to
      diagnostics and contingency planning -- "Should I abort the mission, and
      if I abort, where would I go?" he says. "We also have what's called a
      limp-home strategy." That is, in the worst case, the car is supposed to
      behave more or less normally, like a car of the pre-computer era, instead
      of, say, taking it upon itself to swerve into the nearest tree.

      The European investigators chose not to single out any particular
      contractor or department for blame. "A decision was taken," they wrote.
      "It was not analyzed or fully understood." And "the possible implications
      of allowing it to continue to function during flight were not realized."
      They did not attempt to calculate how much time or money was saved by
      omitting the standard error-protection code.

      "The board wishes to point out," they added, with the magnificent
      blandness of many official accident reports, "that software is an
      expression of a highly detailed design and does not fail in the same sense
      as a mechanical system." No. It fails in a different sense. Software
      built up over years from millions of lines of code, branching and
      unfolding and intertwining, comes to behave more like an organism than a
      machine.

      "There is no life today without software," says Frank Lanza, an executive
      vice president of the American rocket maker Lockheed Martin. "The world
      would probably just collapse." Fortunately, he points out, really
      important software has a reliability of 99.9999999 percent. At least,
      until it doesn't.

  97. Tacoma Narrows/Millennium Bridge Disasters by lperdue · · Score: 2, Informative

    In 1940, the Tacoma Narrows Bridge collapsed" because insufficient stiffening allowed the wind to create oscillations that destroyed it.

    Fast forward 61 years to London and the Millennium Bridge near-disaster where insufficient stiffening ... well, you get the picture.

    Point is, a list such as this one is valuable ONLY if we remember and learn from it. Those who forget history are doomed ...

    1. Re:Tacoma Narrows/Millennium Bridge Disasters by cant_get_a_good_nick · · Score: 1

      Hmm, this looked interesting, explains differently from what I learned in physics class.

      Urban legends expl. of bridge

  98. Dams and genetic engineering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    The underlying failure was more universal: the United States saw a boom in dam building in the first decades of the 20th century, as engineers threw up walls against the waters in unfamiliar terrain and on a scale never before attempted. They did so in large part by guesswork and extrapolation from much smaller projects. Ambition outpaced knowledge, and inevitably some of the new dams failed

    Engineering without complete understanding...gee, that sounds familiar. Genetic engineers these days proceed by trial and error. They splice a gene from one organism into another, expecting a particular change, which sometimes occurs, sometimes not; sometimes with drastic side effects, sometimes without side effects which anybody notices. The reason for this is that genes are not independent from each other - gene expression depends in part on the environment in the cell (ie the rest of the genome), and we don't yet understand all those interactions. This has not prevented us from introducing engineered organisms into the environment and food supply, without long-term tests of their effects on human health.

    I have no philosophical objection to genetic engineering, but implementing it before we fully understand it seems to me even more dangerous than building dams without understanding civil engineering.

  99. exploding whale by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What about the expoding whale?

    http://www.perp.com/whale/

    ac

  100. A go-do example ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Isn't that a tautology ? ;-)
    Anyway, nicely put, if not intended. Got to remember this.

  101. Interesting how the subtext is left out. by Inoshiro · · Score: 2

    This article mentions the "great AT&T problem" of 1989. But it doesn't mention the corporate witch-hunt for "hackers" which was known as Operation Sundevil. Everyone at AT&T was so hopped up on their own hubris, they assumed that the telecom problem that shut down exchanges in NYC and elsewhere had to be cause be (malicious) human hands.

    The complete details are set out in Bruce Sterling's book "The Hacker Crackdown." Operation Sundevil also lead to the creation of the Electronic Frontier Foundation.

    --
    --
    Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
  102. World Trade Center by perlow · · Score: 1

    Sure, nobody ever thought jetliners filled with aviation fuel would hit the towers. However, if anyone saw the recent NOVA "Why The Towers Fell" you would see that various shortcomings in the design of the building aided in the collapse.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/

    Engineer's report here:

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/collapse2.html

    1) The walls made of sheet rock in the building's core completely shattered and exposed the metal beams when the planes hit, and thus the fires melted the core. if they were made of concrete, chances are the buildings might have been still standing.

    2) use of spray on fire insulation on the metal beams. When the planes hit it shook the insulation off and exposed the bare beams, losing their fire protection.

    3) Angle clips used in the floor trusses werent strong enough to hold the trusses up when the floors started to buckle due to the tremendous heat, causing the pancaking effect which caused the floors to collapse.

    2)

    1. Re:World Trade Center by CrystalFalcon · · Score: 1

      If the buildings had been standing, they'd have been in the process of teardown to make way for replacements. Agreed, the people would have survived, but I can't see the buildings themselves surviving as usable buildings after a blowout of the middle of them.

    2. Re:World Trade Center by mpe · · Score: 2

      I saw a documentary recently which suggested that even though the towers were designed to withstand the impact of an aircraft

      Which they actually did perfectly well.

      no one gave much thought to what would happen AFTER the impact, and what effect the impact might have on specific components (like the building's core, and the fire-retardant coating on the steel beams that connected the outer walls to the inner core)

      One important point about the WTC design is that both the core and outer wall were structural. Which is most likely why WTC2 collapsed first, an almost horizontal rip in one side of the wall is more damaging than a big hole in the middle.

    3. Re:World Trade Center by symbolic · · Score: 2

      If the WTC2 tower was hit second, and collapsed first, it was suggested that this is because of the location of the impact. The first building was hit near the top, so there was far less weight riding on the demaged structural elements. The second building was hit more toward the middle, so the massive increase in the amount of weight supported by the damaged structure lent itself to a quicker structural failure. Although I'm no expert, I can see why the horizontal rip may have also been a factor.

  103. "You Finns have nothing like this" by tuoppi · · Score: 1

    I was visiting Stockholm with my wife, as some of her relatives live around there. We went to see the Wasa ships wreck into Wasa museum, and when the visit was about to end, one swede said to me the line on subject: "You Finns have nothing like this."

    I agreed, as our ships have always had a tendency of floating, instead of sinking immediately after sailing out from port.

    It is a nice museum to visit, I can warmly recommend that if you ever visit Stockholm.

    PS. If you have the opportunity, please ask how's the statue of Finnish runner, Paavo Nurmi, nowdays. It was found from the Wasa.. ;-)

  104. Should have used else if by MatriXOracle · · Score: 2

    I've never really liked case statements in C or any other language. It doesn't make the code any shorter and introduces bugs like this one.

    So instead of doing

    switch {
    case 1:
    ;
    break;
    case 2:
    ;
    break;
    case 3:
    ;
    break;
    }

    do this:

    if (case 1) {
    ;
    } else if (case 2) {
    ;
    } else if (case 3) {
    ;
    }

    Pretty simple, huh? It even takes up fewer lines!!

  105. One Word : SAS by efuseekay · · Score: 1

    Make it Simple and Stupid.

    Everything'll be fine :P.

    --
    Mode (3) smart-aleck mode. Press * to return to main menu.
  106. Comments on reuse by Deef · · Score: 1

    A couple of comments:

    First of all, it is a mistake to assume that the only form of reuse is by class hierarchies. Lots of reuse is accomplished by actual non-inheritable classes which do specific things. ("Library routines", for instance, or classes like 'string' which are used to hold and manipulate data) Reuse doesn't need to create huge class hierarchies.

    Second, if you have a real reuse program in place, then reusable components should come already with test code to exercise them. This has a major impact on the reliability of the code that uses them, not to mention time to market.

    Third, Some kinds of projects benefit tremendously from reuse. The typical case is where a company has to do several not-quite-identical-but-highly-similar projects. Designing each one of these from scratch is tremendously wasteful. Furthermore, the result is likely to be unreliable due to the fact that each bug has to be tested for multiple times, whereas in a project with heavy reuse, fixing an error in one reusable component fixes that error in all projects that use it.

    On the other hand, not all components should be expected to be reusable, since not every component in a project is a likely candidate for reuse. Designing something to be reusable when it is not likely to ever be reused is often a waste of time. Also, trying to reuse something that was not designed to be reused is likely to cause more problems than it solves. Still, in situations where reuse is beneficial, it can often be hugely beneficial, and can effectively reduce the effort required to build a project in half, a third, etc. so it should not be overlooked even despite these drawbacks.

    1. Re:Comments on reuse by statusbar · · Score: 2

      Yes, I agree with your points. I think a key thing is to think about 'class string' as part of a library.... and this library is in itself a project all on its own. It has its own specifications and requirements and tests, and one of the requirements is for it to be reusable.

      So in my opinion, it is totally feasible to split a large project up into smaller sub-projects. Some of which may have 'reuse' as a specification. But there is a fine line between what should be reusable and what should be not reusable... it comes down to a judgement call, and my point is that quite often those judgement calls come down on the side of too much abstraction and the 'illusion' of reusability.

      "Damn, all this code we wrote with reusability in mind just does not fit well with this new application we want to make. Now we have to change the library and all the projects which depend on it!"

      or worse: "Damn, this code we wrote with reusability in mind does not fit well.. let us make a bunch of adaptor classes to adapt them for use with our new project... it won't be as efficient as it could be but we gotta get this shipped and we don't have time to fix the library and all the projects that depend on it"

      I have seen a number of cases where a 'bug fix' in one reusable component caused adverse effects in another project that used it! This is what I meant about the concept of two bugs cancelling each other out. Once a reusable component is changed for any reason - even just a bug fix - you must put all of your dependant projects through extensive testing again! It is not often clear what the ramifications of a bug fix may be!

      One of the side effects of making your code 'reusable' is that you are less likely to hack it together into a mess. But proper design an coding should not depend on the reusability of the code... there should be good code everywhere.

      --jeff++

      P.S. unfortunately, under many c++ libraries you cannot reuse JUST the 'string' class. The string class usually implicitely pulls in all sorts of apparently unrelated things as well which may have their own issues. So for instance you want to 'reuse' the MFC CString class, now you are limited in your potential to port your code to another platform. So reusing code is not always a win as along with that reuse will come the 'reuse' of the original code's restrictions.

      --
      ipv6 is my vpn
  107. World Trade Center by symbolic · · Score: 2


    I saw a documentary recently which suggested that even though the towers were designed to withstand the impact of an aircraft, no one gave much thought to what would happen AFTER the impact, and what effect the impact might have on specific components (like the building's core, and the fire-retardant coating on the steel beams that connected the outer walls to the inner core). It has been theorized that had these points of failure been considered, many more people may have survived, and the buildings might still be standing today.

  108. Re:Hyatt != Tacoma Narrows by walynn3 · · Score: 1

    It's in either "Great Construction Disasters" or "Why Buildings Fall Down." (I forget which.) What is generally not pointed out in the hotel case is that the walkway as originally designed was strong enough but physically impossible to build. It would have required threading a nut on a rod larger than the hole in the nut. Change approval came not from the original architect but from the on-site construction engineers.

    The Tacoma Narrows bridge failure was due to the (at the time) poorly understood phenomenon of vortex shedding.

  109. Yes!!! by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 2

    That's exactly what I meant! Thanks...

  110. Please read the book "To Engineer is Human" by himself · · Score: 1

    There's a realable -- i.e., directed at laymen -- book about engineering failures called "To Engineer is Human." It's a little chatty, but interesting nonetheless; it highlights a bunch of disasters and _why_ they happened.