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In her defense, she was calling 9-11 because she was robbed, not because they ran out of nuggets. They usually don't show the whole clip, because then it's not as "funny". She went to a store, paid for something, then after her money was taken, they refused to provide what she paid for. She asked for her money back and they refused to refund her money. Whether she was robbed of $3 or $3,000,000 is qualitatively irrelevant.

Yeah, I completely agree that she needed to call the police under that situation. I'm not sure if 911 is the right number to call (you need to call the police, but it's not an emergency). I remember having a similar thought when my car was broken in to. I had been robbed, but it's not like my life or anyone else's was in danger, the thief was long gone. So I called information and asked for the number of the local police station instead of helping to tie up the emergency lines.

I'm not sure what the correct procedure is, for all I know calling 911 would have been fine. I do agree that if you pay for something, you don't get what you paid for, and they refuse to give the money back, the police needs to be involved.

That's the same smear job that was done to the "coffee" incident: http://lawandhelp.com/q298-2.htm

Ok, that's a different story, and it's not the same thing. As any coffee drinker would know, coffee is actually supposed to be that hot. I typed ""coffee serving temperature" -mcdonalds" on google (to avoid bias from people specifically trying to argue for or against mcdonalds), and the very first link will tell you that the ideal holding temperature for coffee is 175-185 degrees. Feel free to search anywhere else, you're going to find the same answer for non-espresso coffee.

Your link claims that McDonalds was holding coffee at 185 degrees, which is 20 degrees hotter than most other restaurants, but this doesn't mean McDonalds was keeping the coffee too hot. It means the other restaurants were keeping coffee about 10 degrees colder than is acceptable.

I'm an avid coffee drinker, been drinking the stuff since I was about seven actually (my family's cultural background doesn't have the stigma with children and coffee), and one thing I know is that coffee is supposed to seriously burn you if you let it spill over on your body and can't get it out of your skin immediately. So it annoys me when people say the mcdonalds coffee was too hot. It was at the high end of the acceptable temperature, but it was at the acceptable temperature. I'm not saying the woman was faking her injuries, I'm not saying the coffee didn't burn her...I'm saying that she should have known she was holding something that was dangerously hot (even back then they wrote that on the cup), and it was her responsibility to be careful with it.

"Bacteria, or other germs, need time, food and moisture (or wetness) to grow; but they won't grow when the temperature of the food is colder than 41 F or hotter than 140 F. The temperatures in between 41 and 140 are in the "Danger Zone." "

the coffee lawsuit was totally justified

No, no, no.

Stella Liebeck, a passenger in a car, took a cup of hot McDonalds coffe, placed it between her (pointy) knees, and proceeded to PULL the lid off, thereby dumping the coffee in her lap. Instead of pulling the hot-coffee-soaked cloth away from her skin (she was wearing sweatpants), she sat in the puddle of coffee for at least 7 seconds. This resulted in severe burns to her crotch and legs.

McDonald's quality control managers specified that its coffee should be served at 180-190 degrees Fahrenheit. And you know wht? THEY'RE RIGHT! The National Coffee Assosiation of USA, Inc. (and who would know more about making coffee??) Says you need "a water temperature between 195 - 205 degrees Fahrenheit for optimal extraction" and that "Brewed coffee should be enjoyed immediately!", but if you don't serve it right away "the temperature should be maintained at 180 - 185 degrees Fahrenheit."

And, just as a slam dunk, even HOME coffee makers use water that hot: check out This link, which clearly states things like "The water is approximately 50F hotter than what's available from your hot water faucet" and keeps water at the ideal brewing temperature of approximately 200F

So, right there goes any claim that the coffee was "too hot".

Second- yes, McDonalds has a record of coffee causing burns. The defense was able to find 700 cases (of all severities, from first degree (red skin) to third degree(blisters). In the last 10 years. Nationwide. That's like, 0.003 burns per day per state. Actually, when you factor in how many cups of coffee were sold, you find that only 1 in every 24 million caused a burn. That means, for each person who burned thenselves, 23,999,999 were able to buy coffee without injury.

How does this make McDonalds coffee 'unreasonably dangerous'? A: it doesn't.

Look, getting burned is horribly painful. And skin grafts are not pleasant, either. But don't let your feelings of pity toward Stella cloud your Reason. She suffered. Horribly. But it was her own fault, not McDonalds.

Then, my friend, you'll be wanting the Bunn-o-matic® Home Brew System http://www.bunnomatic.com/retail/products/products_index.html!

It keeps the water hot in a tank (like your water heater), and is pushed through the basket (grounds) when cold water is added (like your water heater). One full pot in about two minutes.

They cost a bit more (the last one I picked up was just under $100), but are well worth it.

banzai

"It is well documented that when human skin reaches 119F, a first-degree burn will result; 131F will produce a second-degree burn; and 150F will give a third-degree burn." ...

"This corresponds to the fact that human skin must be exposed to 160F for 60 seconds or 180F for 30 seconds or 212F for 15 seconds to produce a second-degree burn.""

"Variables Attributable to
Third Degree Burn*
Water Temp. (F) Exposure time
120 9.5 minutes
125 2.0 minutes
130 30 seconds
140 15 seconds
150 1.8 seconds
158 1.0 seconds

*From studies conducted by Lewis & Love
(1926; Wu. Yung-Chi, N.B.S. (1972); Dr.
M.A. Stoll, for U.S. Navy (1979)"

"Ideal serving temperature: 155F to 175F (70C to 80C)
Many of the volatile aromatics in coffee have boiling points above 150F (65C). They simply are not perceived when coffee is served at lower temperatures."

"ideal holding temperature: 175F to 185F (80C to 85C)
Most all the volatile aromatics in coffee have boiling points well below that of water and continue to evaporate from the surface until pressure in the serving container reaches equilibrium. A closed container can slow the process of evaporation."

I think you're missing my point.

Would you fashion a noose of razor-wire, and place it around your neck while you were driving ? No ? Then why place a cup of boiling water between your thighs ?

A quick search on the web reveals that coffee is supposed to be that hot (or at least within the range that MacDonalds were serving it). I still have no sympathy for stupidity, and even less so for a legal system that propogates it.

The correct response to "the coffee between my thighs has just scalded me" is "I shouldn't have put the coffee there", not "they shouldn't be serving a hot drink hot enough to scald me if I do something stupid with it". But the collective denial of responsibility endemic within (particularly) US society doesn't allow for self-blame - it's always someone else's fault...

Simon

During discovery, McDonalds produced documents showing more than 700 claims by people burned by its coffee between 1982 and 1992.

This amounts to ONE cup per 24 MILLION causing a burn. What's your point?

McDonalds also said during discovery that, based on a consultants advice, it held its coffee at between 180 and 190 degrees fahrenheit to maintain optimum taste.

Coffee is supposed to be served in the range of 185 degrees! The National Coffee Association recommends coffee be brewed at "between 195-205 degrees Fahrenheit for optimal extraction" and drunk "immediately". If not drunk immediately, it should be "maintained at 180-185 degrees Fahrenheit." (Source: NCAUSA.)

If that doesn't convince you, check out this HOME coffee maker manual:
http://www.bunnomatic.com/pdfs/commercial/manuals/ 35787.0000.pdf
"Use CAUTION when dispensing hot water from the brewer. The water is approximately 50F hotter than that available from your hot water faucet and is always available for other uses." ...
"The water from your BUNN® coffee brewer is approximately 200F. This is hotter than the hot water from your faucet and must be handled with care."

So, that temperature is STANDARD.

As a consultant I see a lot of different coffee makers.

My favorite style is the one at http://www.bunnomatic.com/pages/commpage/apcoffee/ cofapsts.htm - anchor480867 with an attached water line.

Brisbane, CA? Should be plenty of vendors.

Just make sure you get Peet's ;-)

Dan